Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Your bike is incorrigible
    Reputation: Guyechka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,177

    Any Projected Fix for Ponderosa Loop?

    Let's face it, the Ponderosa Loop is horrible. It makes sense that it will be getting more traffic from Picture Rock and the newly improved Wapiti, so something needs to happen.

    I was wondering if there are any plans in the works for cleaning up the loop.

  2. #2
    ride
    Reputation: ignazjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,269
    Ponderosa West is next on the list of trail improvements at Heil. It probably won't happen until Spring. As of right now, there are no plans to improve Ponderosa East as the west side seems to be getting more use and is in worse shape.
    Redstone Cyclery
    intense*transition*rocky mountain*turner
    web - tweet - FB
    Lyons, CO

  3. #3
    skillz to pay billz
    Reputation: nOOby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    3,554
    please don't. The lower sanitizing is enough. people can learn bike handling skills on the loose stuff, there's good visibility, and the risk is just not high enough to warrant it. Plus it's so flat you need something to keep you awake.

    that is if you're talking about the section left at the t to the bench.
    Last edited by nOOby; 11-30-2008 at 12:34 PM.

  4. #4
    Your bike is incorrigible
    Reputation: Guyechka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,177
    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Ponderosa West is next on the list of trail improvements at Heil. It probably won't happen until Spring. As of right now, there are no plans to improve Ponderosa East as the west side seems to be getting more use and is in worse shape.
    Thanks, Dave, that's exactly the type of info I was looking for. And I agree that the east side is not a high priority, but we need the west side to complete a loop on Wild Turkey.

  5. #5
    Rolling
    Reputation: lidarman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    11,117
    I guess opinions will differ on what needs fixing.

    If Ponderosa needs fixing, what does the main climb up Hall need? Are several solid vertical moves after each other preferred over some silly loose rocks?

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bedell99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,280
    I agree Ponderosa is terrible right now, but for some people they love it. I don't mind climbing it, but descending it is mind numbing.

    Hall Ranch on the other hand is perfect,leave it alone. I'm not not one for real loose stuff. i prefer the hard techincal variety. I wrote something similar about lower Apex last year and almost got my head ripped off. When the trail becomes real loose is when I think they should fix it, but leave the technical parts in.

    Erik

    Erik

  7. #7
    ride
    Reputation: ignazjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,269
    The way the county sees it, it's all about resource protection. Wider trails = resource damage. Funny, because that's how they used to build them. At least that outlook is changing. Anyway, take the Ponderosa West loop for example - when it got too rocky and full of baby heads, folks kept riding around the baby heads and widening the trail. The trail gets wider, more veggie gets trampled, mtbers complain, etc. The plan with Wapiti as well as Ponderosa is to place rocks strategically to narrow the trail and to clean out the tread in between to re establish the route. Long term wise, the plan is to go back to remove all of the "guide" boulders to make the trail look natural again.

    I'm a bit skeptical of how it'll actually play out long term, but it could work out well.

    Hall, on the other hand is another story. The rock garden will probably see several more reroutes over time. The county understands that Hall is pretty much a bike trail and that the bikes there like it technical. They don't want to dumb it down. Their goal is to create a more sustainable trail that requires less maintenance. If you go to Hall after some moisture in the spring, it's easy to see. The entire park will be absolutely bone dry, but there will be several sections in the rock garden holding onto little mini mud ponds. Those sections are the primary ones that the county is looking immediately at rerouting.

    I'll post more as I know more, but for right now, that's all I've got
    Redstone Cyclery
    intense*transition*rocky mountain*turner
    web - tweet - FB
    Lyons, CO

  8. #8
    Your bike is incorrigible
    Reputation: Guyechka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,177
    As I recall, there was discussion about improving Hall, and that caused an uproar.

    Heil is a little different because 1. there is a new route to the loop that increases the traffic flow, and 2. they have already done work on Wapiti, which suggests they are willing to admit there are problems with the original's sustainability.

    Although I agree that there are several trails that could use some work, Heil is what I've been riding lately, either up Wapiti or Picture Rock. The improvements got me thinking of how to make the rest of the ride narrower and more enjoyable -- yes, I am one of those who don't really like small loose stuff knocking around dinging my rims and breaking spokes.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bedell99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,280
    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    The way the county sees it, it's all about resource protection. Wider trails = resource damage. Funny, because that's how they used to build them. At least that outlook is changing. Anyway, take the Ponderosa West loop for example - when it got too rocky and full of baby heads, folks kept riding around the baby heads and widening the trail. The trail gets wider, more veggie gets trampled, mtbers complain, etc. The plan with Wapiti as well as Ponderosa is to place rocks strategically to narrow the trail and to clean out the tread in between to re establish the route. Long term wise, the plan is to go back to remove all of the "guide" boulders to make the trail look natural again.

    I'm a bit skeptical of how it'll actually play out long term, but it could work out well.

    Hall, on the other hand is another story. The rock garden will probably see several more reroutes over time. The county understands that Hall is pretty much a bike trail and that the bikes there like it technical. They don't want to dumb it down. Their goal is to create a more sustainable trail that requires less maintenance. If you go to Hall after some moisture in the spring, it's easy to see. The entire park will be absolutely bone dry, but there will be several sections in the rock garden holding onto little mini mud ponds. Those sections are the primary ones that the county is looking immediately at rerouting.

    I'll post more as I know more, but for right now, that's all I've got
    I heard back in day Heil Ranch was actually pretty smooth, but it has become very eroded. I still don't really understand why the rock garden would ever be rerouted. I would think it would be good that the garden kept a little moisture.

    Great write up though.

    Erik

  10. #10
    ride
    Reputation: ignazjr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,269
    Thanks Erik. When we built Heil 10 or so years ago, it was all pretty nice. I used to ride it all the time on my cross bike and it wasn't that rough. I haven't been there on the crosser in a couple of years It's a different type of soil/etc (heck, all of heil was a quarry at one time) that seems to barf up mini boulders everytime you break thru the top dirt. My personal opinion is that the county is still figuring out how to manage a trail in that type of terrain.

    The Hall rock garden, on the other hand, requires a LOT of regular maintenance by the Open Space staff. The County is looking to have Hall Ranch cost them less time and money for maintenance via new routes thru the rock garden. I have faith that they will do us well when that time comes.

    I've come to know a super positive and pro mtb guy on the trail crew for Bo Co. Unfortunately, he's the only one on the crew that actually rides. He's trying very hard to balance how the county wants him to mange the land versus how he sees it from a riders perspective. So far they've done a great job. He had a lot of influence on how Picture Rock was laid out and he's really at bat for Hall Ranch.

    His and his peers' work, partnered with BMA lobbying and cooperative work, are one of the main reasons were riding more and better trail every year. I know things have been changing and will continue to do so, but I'm staying positive on it. I think more good things are coming.
    Redstone Cyclery
    intense*transition*rocky mountain*turner
    web - tweet - FB
    Lyons, CO

  11. #11
    lucky enough
    Reputation: cocavaak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    855
    Quote Originally Posted by ignazjr
    Thanks Erik. When we built Heil 10 or so years ago, it was all pretty nice. I used to ride it all the time on my cross bike and it wasn't that rough. I haven't been there on the crosser in a couple of years It's a different type of soil/etc (heck, all of heil was a quarry at one time) that seems to barf up mini boulders everytime you break thru the top dirt. My personal opinion is that the county is still figuring out how to manage a trail in that type of terrain.
    Heil ranch will always be tough because most of the trail is in the Lyons Formation - great for producing flagstone, but flagstone is all right angles so it's the roughest rock to ride. And as you point out ignazjr, much of the soil up there is pretty thin. Any trail routes there should go through areas with the least amount of rock exposures and greatest soil depths. The trail will be rocky enough already for most folks. There are some areas of Picture Rock where it seems like they purposely routed it across exposed rock. This is fine for some riders but others out for a Sunday cruise get tired of continual rocky sections. For the extended loose rocky sections of Ponderosa, there are two fixes - create a stone pavement with the flagstone by laying larger stones flat, or bringing in fill sand and gravel like that just north of the bench. I tend to favor using the local material as much a possible.
    "Don't take life so serious, son . . . it ain't no how permanent." - Porky Pine

  12. #12
    Your bike is incorrigible
    Reputation: Guyechka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,177
    Heil
    Quote Originally Posted by cocavaak
    For the extended loose rocky sections of Ponderosa, there are two fixes - create a stone pavement with the flagstone by laying larger stones flat, or bringing in fill sand and gravel like that just north of the bench. I tend to favor using the local material as much a possible.
    Which they've done at several points both on Wapiti and Ponderosa. If we are talking about just fixing the west side, I can't imagine there being more than 1/2 a mile total that needs work. Once you get on top the trail turns nice again. But it's ugly going up the grade because the trail is wide enough for a Jeep and loose the entire width.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jonny boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    489
    I agree with Ponderosa Loop not very fun right now. I remember I used to be able to keep a decent pace around it. Of course, the slow down is not just loose babyheads, might also have something to do with much less miles per year for me now. I have avoided the Ponderosa Loop since Picture Rock opened, but tried it last weekend - and am satisfied with not trying it again for months, til I forget how slow and frustrating it is. It's not rocky technical in the fun sense, it's rocky annoying sapping all my strength and speed.

    I'm mixed on the work on the main trail. I understand why, and generally it's a good idea, but some of it is twisty too slow. A friend of mine did some of the work and he stated it was hard to get a feel for the flow of it, I can appreciate this, so a little help removing a rock here and there is not so bad is it?

    I'm just glad to see miles of new trail develop within the last few years. I know six/eight years ago it was more about fighting for the existing trail.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.