Being 6'8" with a 7'2" wingspan limits bikes which fit me well. Currently I ride a Santa Cruz Hightower LT and it is excellent overall but a steeper S/A and longer reach would further enhance the experience.
My current hardtail is a 2001 18" Banshee Morphine which I originally built up in college as my dirt jumper and an all around bullet-proof hardtail has transitioned from "old" to "retro." I usually ride my HTLT but keep the Morphine around for friends to ride, you don't break Morphine, Morphine breaks YOU!
It has come time for a new hardtail that doesn't resemble a runt bike when riding it. Stemming off the geometry I experience of the Hightower LT and seeing what other tall riders are after I started poking around for frames with steep seat angles, long reaches, long top tubes, and 29" wheels. 29/27.5+ is a bonus since the added tire volume would be appreciated on a hardtail but if I had to pick: 29>27.5
After a bit of research I have my sights locked on the Pole Taival, a 29/27.5 steel hardtail with a threaded BB, and most importantly; steep S/A, long reach, and slack H/A. You can see how it stacks up to my current bikes as well some of the other well known "modern" hardtails like the Pedalhead and Honzo. The Banshee is so old that "reach" and "stack" were not used so I had to bust out my laser level to make those measurements.
Although Pole has designed this radical geometry for "normal" riders and the concept of being well balanced over the bike with a larger cockpit and a steeper H/A is supposed to inspire confidence, I think it is particularly accommodating to us tall folk and I wanted to share!
Evan
*Note* on the measurements the XXL HTLT reflects a 160mm fork since I extended the travel 10mm and the Taival geometry is based on a 150mm fork which is what I will likely run (their website lists 140mm specs)
This is interresting Evan. I'm intrigued about a steel hardtail and looking forward to your review, as you are a tall rider like me and take your riding seriously
This bike has just made it onto my must have list. Been wanting to upgrade my Scott Scale 960 for a while now and been eyeing off a Koga Honzo. This looks even better for fit
This is interresting Evan. I'm intrigued about a steel hardtail and looking forward to your review, as you are a tall rider like me and take your riding seriously
I am serious about my riding, serious about having fun! Heyo! On paper the downside of this frame will be it's unwillingness to manual but everything has a balance point so technique and skills will have to adapt. Where the geo and sizing is radical for your "normal" sized rider and Pole has some tutorials and how corner it properly (different from a traditional bike) I think with larger riders it will be much more natural since we have more leverage to throw the bike around, just a hunch.
Originally Posted by BareNecessities
Good to see another big steel hardtail on the market. Look forward to seeing how you build this up!
Naturally it would be a beefy build, 150mm Fox 36 or Lyric/Yari up front (stiff chassis). Pole said it can fit a 29x2.6 WTB in the rear which is great curious to see if other 2.6s will clear as I want the largest cushion possible riding on a wide rim to help battle tire fold from cornering forces. 9point8 200mm dropper and the rest is up in the air.
Originally Posted by brawlo
This bike has just made it onto my must have list. Been wanting to upgrade my Scott Scale 960 for a while now and been eyeing off a Koga Honzo. This looks even better for fit
Honzo seems like a great option but the Taival seems... more greater Also, steel will have a more forgiving ride which in my eyes in a huge upside for a hardtail that will a moderate pedaling and descending in chunky terrain.
Originally Posted by avc8130
Have they officially released it and it's available in the US?
They are expecting to be stocked up here shortly and website says June deliveries. I know they had a bit of delay with getting their "Machines" delivered since they switched factories but it sounds like they are settled, building bikes, and fulfilling orders.
I like the idea of 29 up front and 27,5plus out back. In a german bike mag they tested a bulls bike what comes stock in this way, and they liked it. What do you think?
I like the idea of 29 up front and 27,5plus out back. In a german bike mag they tested a bulls bike what comes stock in this way, and they liked it. What do you think?
I love the volume of plus for ride comfort but love the 29" wheels for rolling over everything. My ideal setup would be 29x2.8 Minion DHFs on 40mm ID rims but unfortunately that doesn't exist as it's 27.5x2.8 or 29x3.0. Having to choose I would gravitate towards 29" wheels with the highest volume possible and rims to match.
Pole told me that the Taival will fit a 2.5 WTB in the rear which is great news since I assume that means the WTB Breakout which is one of the largest volume 29" tires available. At this time there are only a handful of 29x2.6 tires on the market and I am not really familiar with any of them.
My current issue with my 29x2.5 DHFs on i30mm rims is cornering stability, even with Cushcores I can't run <35psi in the rear or the tire will be folding all over the place. Perhaps running larger i35mm rims will increase stability and allow me to run slightly lower pressures so I can capitalize on some cushion from the larger volume.
Going pack to your 29F 27.5+R. I would have some reservations about how that might affect the geometry and slacken out the head angle on the bike. I have seen some measurements where 27.5"+ is very similar to 29" but referencing the link below it looks like there is nearly 1" of difference in rolling diameter between the 27.5x2.8 DHF and 29x2.3 I would keep the 29x2.5 up front which means the difference could be even more substantial. IIRC adding +10mm of for travel =(-.5 degree) H/A so this setup could slacked the H/A almost 1 degree to 63 (with 150mm fork).
Different fork, tire, and wheel setups can yield different results but personally with how I want to set up the bike I think it's best to pair the wheel diameters.
I understand your opinion. The pole is a quite slack bike already and the 27,5 has to be smaller, we see all the flip chips, spacers, etc. on 29/27,5 plus bikes.
Thought I'd do a mock-up of how an XL Taival would look, with 140mm Lyrik, and 170mm Reverb. Saddle set to my pedalling height, with 35mm stem, 25mm of spacers, and 30mm rise bar.
Thought I'd do a mock-up of how an XL Taival would look, with 140mm Lyrik, and 170mm Reverb. Saddle set to my pedalling height, with 35mm stem, 25mm of spacers, and 30mm rise bar.
Thanks for that, nice to visualize a 2018/2019 built up, the 2017 and earlier bikes seem to have older (more conservative) geometry.
I am happy for Pole since they seem to be very busy fulfilling orders and getting caught up after transferring to their new factory but the wait is real! When I started this thread the anticipated delivery per the website as end of June, that got pushed back to July, and now shows end of August. Patience is a virtue!
After noting their delays with Evolinks and Machines I anticipated the same for the Taival. Factor in I sold my XXL Hightower LT last week and won't have a 2019 in my hands until late Sept/early that means I will be bikeless for a few months and that is not OK. I remedied this issue by buying a lightly used Pole Evolink 150 which should arrive today! I am curious to see how it gets on and stacks up to the XXL Hightower LT. I will have a separate build thread for that bike.
Back to the Taival, over the past month I have been collecting parts and with the exception of some small stuff like Problem Solvers Matchmakers, Stealth Maxles, fork upgrades, and tires, all the major components have arrived.
Here are the specs, let the patient waiting commence!
Evan
18' Rockshox Yari modded to 19' RC2 Lyrik 150mm
Industry 9 hubs - E13 TRS+ rims - Cushcores
Magura MT5 Calipers - MT Trail Levers - 203mm SL Rotors
Eagle GX Drivetrain
RaceFace Turbine Cranks
Crank Brothers Stamp 3 Large Pedals
9point8 200mm dropper post
Ergon SR3-L saddle
ANVL 35x50x5 stem
Deity Holeshot 825x35 bars
Wolf Tooth Fat Paw grips
Maxxis DHF 2.5 F - Aggressor 2.5 R
This post is a huge help for me as a relative MTB newb. I’m a buy once buy right kind of guy (my current MTB excepted) and have been researching the crap out of parts and find what I want not in either of the stock Taival builds so I’m going to price things together. But Pole’s delay has hamstrung me and I had to fork out some bike money on family so the full build will have to wait. I’m still going to get a frame and gradually get things together
This post is a huge help for me as a relative MTB newb. I’m a buy once buy right kind of guy (my current MTB excepted) and have been researching the crap out of parts and find what I want not in either of the stock Taival builds so I’m going to price things together. But Pole’s delay has hamstrung me and I had to fork out some bike money on family so the full build will have to wait. I’m still going to get a frame and gradually get things together
Happy to help. Options and info can be limited for us guys so I really value real world feedback, especially other big guys who understand "the struggle" so glad to hear this is being put to use.
BTW, Pole said their Taival frames (presumably first wave)are currently being welded , will enter paint next week, and should be ready to ship in Aug. They posted a pic of some welded frames so this is more than heresay or an ETA update from their website.
Also, I will be creating a build log for my Pole Evolink 150 I recently got, I shared it in the 29er forum but will create a thread here for the big boys.
Well I done gone and ordered my frame today. Going to be mated to a DVO Diamond fork that I picked up at a pretty good price.
Got enough coin left to get the wheel bits together, then the rest will come when I sell the old bike later this year or as I save a bit up. Wheels will be DT 350s to i35 ASYMs
Still undecided on what group to get but I have to decide soon as it will dictate the rear hub choice. My heart says Shimano but curious about SRAM
Well I done gone and ordered my frame today. Going to be mated to a DVO Diamond fork that I picked up at a pretty good price.
Got enough coin left to get the wheel bits together, then the rest will come when I sell the old bike later this year or as I save a bit up. Wheels will be DT 350s to i35 ASYMs
Still undecided on what group to get but I have to decide soon as it will dictate the rear hub choice. My heart says Shimano but curious about SRAM
I think both group sets can perform very well is set up properly. So far I am a big fan of the GX Eagle, the range suite my riding style well and I appreciate some of the small features they offer. Being a big/powerful rider also makes me gravitrate towards xD drivers for durability.
Originally Posted by bbunnys
This bike interests me a lot. Looking to get of the full squish and I can run my current Fox 36 150mm on this frame.
Question for those with frame. Would it fit a 29x 2.6 tire in rear. Ideally want to put my Bontrager SE2 2.6 on the rear. Straight off my Fuel EX.
Their customer service said a WTB 29x2.6 fits in the rear and WTBs are fatter than most so I would expect it to fit all 2.6s and maybe 2.8s depending on brand and how close you are willing to go on clearance.
Taival frames are being produced, built, and shipped. Here are some pics!
Red Pepper and Polar Blue
Options
Medium in velvet black with the high end "EN" build.
XL Polar Blue with the lower end "TR" build, this is ~$1,600usd after the currency conversion and shipping. Add a dropper post and some rotors and you are good to go!
I think both group sets can perform very well is set up properly. So far I am a big fan of the GX Eagle, the range suite my riding style well and I appreciate some of the small features they offer. Being a big/powerful rider also makes me gravitrate towards xD drivers for durability.
I did a lot, maybe too much, reading and ended up with Shimano XT. At the top end there seems to be no question, SRAM is better. In the mid range the lines get blurred and it's much of a muchness. I read a number of people after having used both SRAM and Shimano mid level stuff gravitating to Shimano so I went with that. Plus pretty much everything I run is Shimano across track/road and my old MTB so my OCD is satisfied
Originally Posted by ucsbwsr
Their customer service said a WTB 29x2.6 fits in the rear and WTBs are fatter than most so I would expect it to fit all 2.6s and maybe 2.8s depending on brand and how close you are willing to go on clearance.
Options
I sure hope so. I went for Rekons front and rear in 2.6 and wheels ended up with DT 30mm internal rims. I have to do their final tension after doing the prestressing yesterday.
I really wish I knew that metallic blue was on the cards. I would have chosen that for sure, but ended up with black. I'm now waiting in anticipation for the frame to arrive so I can get things happening. The last parts are on their way to me from Germany and I have no MTB ATM
Does frame have hole underneath BB. To drain any water if it gets inside it? Had another frame from another brand a while back and I had to drill hole. Which was not ideal.
This frame looks nice! I just built up my Octane One Prone 29 frame that I picked up from Chain Reaction Cycles. I might have to consider this frame for a boost build in the future!
Can someone with this frame confirm what the max rear 29er tire size is?
I asked Pole this and they said a 29x2.6 WTB will fit and since WTBs run large that means ALL 29x2.5s will fit, a 29x2.6 Schwalbe NN should work no problem, and depending on the brand/tread design some 29x2.8 might fit?
I asked Pole this and they said a 29x2.6 WTB will fit and since WTBs run large that means ALL 29x2.5s will fit, a 29x2.6 Schwalbe NN should work no problem, and depending on the brand/tread design some 29x2.8 might fit?
My frame arrived today XL size. Looking forward to getting this built up and riding it. Not sure how much riding before summer is over though. Snakes have a liking for MTB trails around these parts
My frame arrived today XL size. Looking forward to getting this built up and riding it. Not sure how much riding before summer is over though. Snakes have a liking for MTB trails around these parts
If you still planning to run the 2.6 Rekons. Love to see clearance in the back of bike if you can upload some pictures once built.
I will put them on initially as I liked the Ikons grip on my old bike for the terrain I ride, but they were just not tough enough for the rocky stuff, copping some good sidewall scuffs and showing a bit of frayed carcase. My thoughts are that the Rekons are similar, but built a bit better. I will take pics, and if it all goes pear shaped I have a 2.5 Aggressor to use instead.
I’ve had my Taival for a couple months now. It’s rides very different than the more standard geometry hardtails I’ve previously owned. It’s very stable and confident at speed and feels almost like a downhill bike (minus the rear suspension of course). Uphill it climbs great! The geometry really keeps you centered and it’s nice not having to sit on the nose of the saddle when climbing steep hills. I haven’t ridden it on a trail with tight switchbacks yet which is where the long wheelbase might struggle in the tight turns but so far I’m very happy with how it rides.
I’ve had my Taival for a couple months now. It’s rides very different than the more standard geometry hardtails I’ve previously owned. It’s very stable and confident at speed and feels almost like a downhill bike (minus the rear suspension of course). Uphill it climbs great! The geometry really keeps you centered and it’s nice not having to sit on the nose of the saddle when climbing steep hills. I haven’t ridden it on a trail with tight switchbacks yet which is where the long wheelbase might struggle in the tight turns but so far I’m very happy with how it rides.
Thank you for your impressions!
Last weekend I ordered the Taival frame and now I can´t wait to have it here... Hope it will come soon.
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Originally Posted by tuenni
Also, steel will have a more forgiving ride which in my eyes in a huge upside for a hardtail that will a moderate pedaling and descending in chunky terrain.
