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  1. #1
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    Hub Killer

    Who makes the strongest 12x142 hub on the market.

    I shatter pawls, brake axles, make ball bearings into not balls.

    I9 pawls seem to last but not bearings
    Chris king is a constent maintnance battle and a pain in the ass to work on.
    Hope hub shells break in 2
    shimano lasts for a while then the axle or the pawls brake
    sram is just a joke
    stans makes sram look good

    thinking about trying DT as the rachet looks promising but what about the rest of it?
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  2. #2
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    DT Swiss 350 , stick with the stock 18 t ratchet.

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    I've destroyed two DT Swiss hubs; so while they are stronger than typical pawl/ratchet hubs, they will not guarantee you will not be able to destroy it too.

    After numerous failures on several brands of hubs, I gave up on pawl/ratchet hubs entirely this past winter and had a set of wheels built with Onyx hubs; which uses a sprag clutch mechanism to handle all the torque us clydesdales put out.

    If sprag clutches are as foreign to you as they were to me, here is a primer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp3fm4KHs0&t=1s

    I guess helicopters and high end sports cars like Ferrari's use sprag clutches in their transmissions.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaHag View Post
    I've destroyed two DT Swiss hubs; so while they are stronger than typical pawl/ratchet hubs, they will not guarantee you will not be able to destroy it too.

    After numerous failures on several brands of hubs, I gave up on pawl/ratchet hubs entirely this past winter and had a set of wheels built with Onyx hubs; which uses a sprag clutch mechanism to handle all the torque us clydesdales put out.

    If sprag clutches are as foreign to you as they were to me, here is a primer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp3fm4KHs0&t=1s

    I guess helicopters and high end sports cars like Ferrari's use sprag clutches in their transmissions.
    Thanks for the reply I am well versed in sprag clutches they have a high failure rate on some motorcycles where they are sometimes used in trans and other times used on the starter motor. however yes they are used on choppers and are used in cranes and conveyors. The bike hub application could be good. I wish the cost was not quite so steep.

    On the DTs that failed on you what failed and how?
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  5. #5
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    Hard to go wrong with the DT 350 or the Onyx.

    Onyx cost much more -- about double -- and weigh a good chunk more. Seem to be bulletproof, more or less.

    DT are lighter and much less expensive. They need semi-annual maintenance, which can be achieved with a rag, a dab of grease, and less then 5 minutes. No tools.

    Bearing replacement on each is the same as any other hub -- doable with the right tools, but a minor PITA.

  6. #6
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    Learn to pedal smoother. You've got the failure rate of someone trying to trash hubs. You're doing it wrong!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaHag View Post
    I've destroyed two DT Swiss hubs; so while they are stronger than typical pawl/ratchet hubs, they will not guarantee you will not be able to destroy it too.

    After numerous failures on several brands of hubs, I gave up on pawl/ratchet hubs entirely this past winter and had a set of wheels built with Onyx hubs; which uses a sprag clutch mechanism to handle all the torque us clydesdales put out.

    If sprag clutches are as foreign to you as they were to me, here is a primer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp3fm4KHs0&t=1s

    I guess helicopters and high end sports cars like Ferrari's use sprag clutches in their transmissions.
    Actually sprag clutches are used in many modern automatic transmissions. As for being used as the "clutch" for a manual transmission that's a different story.

    I do wonder sometimes how people grenade hubs so often. Im heavier than most "clydes" and have the power in my legs to match. I'm yet to do worse than bend an axle and dig cassettes into a freehub body within 50 miles.

    It's a matter of riding more smoothly. I can't afford to trash components right and left so I do what I can to avoid trashing them without compromising my fun. Good for not feeling beat up after a ride either.

    I have been eyeing onyx hubs myself though just for the instant engagement. Really pricey but more and more clydes recommend them if you can afford them. Would be a savings project but may just be worth it.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Learn to pedal smoother. You've got the failure rate of someone trying to trash hubs. You're doing it wrong!
    Im very smooth hell even use a oval
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Actually sprag clutches are used in many modern automatic transmissions. As for being used as the "clutch" for a manual transmission that's a different story.

    I do wonder sometimes how people grenade hubs so often. Im heavier than most "clydes" and have the power in my legs to match. I'm yet to do worse than bend an axle and dig cassettes into a freehub body within 50 miles.

    It's a matter of riding more smoothly. I can't afford to trash components right and left so I do what I can to avoid trashing them without compromising my fun. Good for not feeling beat up after a ride either.

    I have been eyeing onyx hubs myself though just for the instant engagement. Really pricey but more and more clydes recommend them if you can afford them. Would be a savings project but may just be worth it.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    I know part of my problem is I'm 6'5" 280lbs and not afraid of climbing, rock gardens or tech. I even had my favorite shop owner riding behind me when I snapped my last axle
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  10. #10
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    Ok your my weight (I'm a couple inches shorter) and like the rough stuff. I try to take it easy on rough tech just because I couldn't afford the repair bill of snapping stuff all the time.

    That's one thing is everyone is so concerned about weight that us bigger guys suffer with broken parts more often just because skinny riders are about saving every gram

    You'd have trouble snapping some "less expensive axles though. The ones on my new pls bike are almost solid aluminum rod. Very small hole through the middle compared to other through axles I've seen including the one for the CF forks on my fat bike.

    Maybe there is a DH thru axle that would serve you better. Thru axles are more frame specific than anything but shouldn't be too hard to find something that would hold up better.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMasonJones View Post
    Thanks for the reply I am well versed in sprag clutches they have a high failure rate on some motorcycles where they are sometimes used in trans and other times used on the starter motor. however yes they are used on choppers and are used in cranes and conveyors. The bike hub application could be good. I wish the cost was not quite so steep.

    On the DTs that failed on you what failed and how?
    My failures are from an older late 90's era DT/HUGI hubs built up into a 40 spoke Sun/Rhyno rim after I destroyed several lesser wheels. Current DT offerings may have resolved any of these possibilities.

    Can't say for certain which of the internals failed as I didn't do any of the rework on them. I can say I had freewheel capability going forward and reverse. The first hub failed within the first year and must have been catastrophic as DT/HUGI warranteed the hub with a newly reengineered model which lasted several years before requiring new guts rather than a full replacement. That wheel is still seeing use on my dirt jump bike now.

    I also ride with my local shop employees and had them remark at what a surprisingly smooth rider I am. But I will keep mashing pedals in low gears and not give up on a climb even when it turns into a crawl. Over the years, I've learned to recognize the point where my chains would snap and such and have reduced the rate of those breakages; but I'm still really hard on my drivetrain going uphill.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Ok your my weight (I'm a couple inches shorter) and like the rough stuff. I try to take it easy on rough tech just because I couldn't afford the repair bill of snapping stuff all the time.

    That's one thing is everyone is so concerned about weight that us bigger guys suffer with broken parts more often just because skinny riders are about saving every gram

    You'd have trouble snapping some "less expensive axles though. The ones on my new pls bike are almost solid aluminum rod. Very small hole through the middle compared to other through axles I've seen including the one for the CF forks on my fat bike.

    Maybe there is a DH thru axle that would serve you better. Thru axles are more frame specific than anything but shouldn't be too hard to find something that would hold up better.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    When I say that I break a axle I am referring to the hub axle not the through axle. I have broken 2 hub axles on current hub (brand will remain nameless for now as they are trying to resolve the issue) this time vs sending me a replacement axle they are sending a full hub in case there is a defect in the tolerances of the hub that is leading to the failure if this axle and or hub also fails we will move to DT or possibly even a tandem hub next.

    Yes I could chose to be nicer to the bike and walk up the hills or through the tech but then I mite as well just take up underwater basket weaving. I ride MTBs to ride not walk I will ride up that hill until my legs, bike or balance fail then I will do the walk of shame if I can't get started again.

    I think its time that the industry needs a new component brand specializing in parts for Clydesdale and off road touring where reliability is job 1. Now who wants to fund my idea.
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

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    I am close to 300# and am a strong rider who climbs steep terrain here in Norcal.
    I have blown up many hubs, cracked crank arms, snapped chains, even snapped a seat tube on an older custom FS bike while climbing.
    All that said. 2 words. Chris King. Done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    I am close to 300# and am a strong rider who climbs steep terrain here in Norcal.
    I have blown up many hubs, cracked crank arms, snapped chains, even snapped a seat tube on an older custom FS bike while climbing.
    All that said. 2 words. Chris King. Done.
    Ben there done that, constant maintenance problem. And the fun experience of ending up with a fixie when the freewheel jammed on a week long MTB bike-packing trip. sent the hub in they refunded the shop vs replacing the hub.
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMasonJones View Post
    Ben there done that, constant maintenance problem. And the fun experience of ending up with a fixie when the freewheel jammed on a week long MTB bike-packing trip. sent the hub in they refunded the shop vs replacing the hub.
    Were you running a stainless steel driveshell on the CK? Also do you ratchet on tech climbs? That is a hub-killer for sure. I'm 230 and Hadleys are fine, but I'm not in the same league as you as a hub killer. I've stripped drive rings out of Stans 3.30 and 3.30 HD hubs and that is about it.

    I like the idea of a sprag clutch as the near instant engagement and a little bit of cushion upon engagement should reduce the peak torque the hub is subjected to.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

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    [QUOTE=TrailMasonJones;13190577]Ben there done that, constant maintenance problem. And the fun experience of ending up with a fixie when the freewheel jammed on a week long MTB bike

    I am now on my 5th wheelset on CK's and never an issue. I bought the tools to break them down since I have so many now , but haven't needed it yet.
    I pulled my driveshell the other day and cleaned and lubed it just for the hell of it and it was perfect after 3 years of riding 3 times a week (all dirt-mud and dry) and I am a relentless power washer.

    @Jackl- I have had Hadley's and no real drive issues, but some finicky bearing preload issues. They are fine hubs as well. CK's are just at another level IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailMasonJones View Post
    I think its time that the industry needs a new component brand specializing in parts for Clydesdale and off road touring where reliability is job 1. Now who wants to fund my idea.
    They have done this. It is called a Tandem Hub. Offroad terms a DH Hub. Usually come with SS driveshells and weigh slightly more.
    I almost bought a set of the Sprag clutch wheels on my last hub order. But decided since CK's were so reliable in my experience why fix something that not broken?
    Besides the killer bee sound goes away significantly with break in and some more lube on the internals (Mobil 1).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasejj View Post
    @Jackl- I have had Hadley's and no real drive issues, but some finicky bearing preload issues.
    Yeah me too. Preload somehow increased and caused chainsuck (and a broken chain after I foolishly kept riding). Locktite on the axle cap solved it for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Is it blue on one side and white on the other or did you buy two of whatever that is?

  19. #19
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    Ever think the problem might be you? Don't get all pissy cause I said it.


    I can break my drivetrain pretty much on demand. I started focusing on riding smoother through stuff instead of just using brute power to get through and I rarely break stuff now. I do replace chains every 400miles but they tend to become unreliable shortly after that point. I stopped using aluminum chain rings cause they wear out really fast also. WT stainless direct mounts work excellent and last much longer! I watched a friend who was doing the same thing. As became a better and started riding his bike instead of pedaling it less parts destruction and more smiles.

    Every time I ride like a butcher something comes apart. I'm not trying to insult your riding but take a good honest look at what your doing. Mashing into ledges and rocks shock load the drivetrain. Get the bike light and instead of counting on the drivetrain to do all the work help it. I'm not saying hop up every ledge but just rolling along and unweighting a bit will take a TON of stress off the drivetrain.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  20. #20
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    Reading these threads, I'm thankful I weigh 143lbs.

    I get thousands of miles out of rings, chains and cassettes. Have 30,000 miles on one DT Swiss 240. Despite producing more continuous power than most people twice my size.



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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Ever think the problem might be you? Don't get all pissy cause I said it.


    I can break my drivetrain pretty much on demand. I started focusing on riding smoother through stuff instead of just using brute power to get through and I rarely break stuff now. I do replace chains every 400miles but they tend to become unreliable shortly after that point. I stopped using aluminum chain rings cause they wear out really fast also. WT stainless direct mounts work excellent and last much longer! I watched a friend who was doing the same thing. As became a better and started riding his bike instead of pedaling it less parts destruction and more smiles.

    Every time I ride like a butcher something comes apart. I'm not trying to insult your riding but take a good honest look at what your doing. Mashing into ledges and rocks shock load the drivetrain. Get the bike light and instead of counting on the drivetrain to do all the work help it. I'm not saying hop up every ledge but just rolling along and unweighting a bit will take a TON of stress off the drivetrain.
    The problems here are ones you can't roll, going up climbs especially when you have to ratchet. If their short ones that you can carry speed through it's one thing but trying to be smooth and ratchet tech on a climb is about impossible.

    Bikes aren't truly designed around us big guys. For me standing and mashing equals up to twice the force a 150lb rider is throwing down on a pedal. Also why for me when i get to a certain point where I would be really driving my weight through the pedals I just stop and walk. Easier to walk over a short steep section than walk the miles back to the trail head.

    But that works for me as I am not about getting crazy. Not my thing to get beat to hell, walk climbs that get too rough, etc. These guys however like the challenge of pushing it harder.

    What works for some doesn't work for others. Have to pay to play though. Have to have a bike built to handle the abuse which means avoiding feather weight parts and replacing high stressed components with ones designed to handle the abuse.

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Bikes aren't truly designed around us big guys. For me standing and mashing equals up to twice the force a 150lb rider is throwing down on a pedal. Also why for me when i get to a certain point where I would be really driving my weight through the pedals I just stop and walk. Easier to walk over a short steep section than walk the miles back to the trail head.
    Kind of, and only if you end up going the same speed up a hill as that 150lb rider (assuming you weigh 300lbs).

    Otherwise, if you're both putting out 400w up that hill, that 150lb rider is simply going up it twice as fast.

    That said, if your cadence is super low, say 60rpm, torque would have to be very high to get that 400w figure.

    The 150lb guy, if he's going at 90rpm and 400w, would be putting out 2/3rds the torque and going twice the speed.
    Death from Below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Ever think the problem might be you? Don't get all pissy cause I said it.


    I can break my drivetrain pretty much on demand. I started focusing on riding smoother through stuff instead of just using brute power to get through and I rarely break stuff now. I do replace chains every 400miles but they tend to become unreliable shortly after that point. I stopped using aluminum chain rings cause they wear out really fast also. WT stainless direct mounts work excellent and last much longer! I watched a friend who was doing the same thing. As became a better and started riding his bike instead of pedaling it less parts destruction and more smiles.

    Every time I ride like a butcher something comes apart. I'm not trying to insult your riding but take a good honest look at what your doing. Mashing into ledges and rocks shock load the drivetrain. Get the bike light and instead of counting on the drivetrain to do all the work help it. I'm not saying hop up every ledge but just rolling along and unweighting a bit will take a TON of stress off the drivetrain.
    Sound advise. I can't fault anything you said. I rarely stand to drive the pedals . I don't like how I can blow through whatever anti-squat or shock setting I have due to my mass and gearing needed for steep climbs . So I sit and grind.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider76 View Post
    Ever think the problem might be you? Don't get all pissy cause I said it.


    I can break my drivetrain pretty much on demand. I started focusing on riding smoother through stuff instead of just using brute power to get through and I rarely break stuff now. I do replace chains every 400miles but they tend to become unreliable shortly after that point. I stopped using aluminum chain rings cause they wear out really fast also. WT stainless direct mounts work excellent and last much longer! I watched a friend who was doing the same thing. As became a better and started riding his bike instead of pedaling it less parts destruction and more smiles.

    Every time I ride like a butcher something comes apart. I'm not trying to insult your riding but take a good honest look at what your doing. Mashing into ledges and rocks shock load the drivetrain. Get the bike light and instead of counting on the drivetrain to do all the work help it. I'm not saying hop up every ledge but just rolling along and unweighting a bit will take a TON of stress off the drivetrain.
    No insult taken and i don't mean this to sound pissy. The shop owner and friend that sold me the my most recent hub destruction project thought it had to be me then he followed me payed attention he saw that I ride very smooth picking smart lines and not just crashing through. I'm no new rider been riding sense 87 and put in around 5000 miles a year these days, 10 years ago it was closer to 10,000. yes I need to loose some weight but most of my mass is not fat. My list of busted hubs is compiled over many years and bikes.
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JACKL View Post
    Were you running a stainless steel driveshell on the CK? Also do you ratchet on tech climbs? That is a hub-killer for sure. I'm 230 and Hadleys are fine, but I'm not in the same league as you as a hub killer. I've stripped drive rings out of Stans 3.30 and 3.30 HD hubs and that is about it.

    I like the idea of a sprag clutch as the near instant engagement and a little bit of cushion upon engagement should reduce the peak torque the hub is subjected to.
    I believe the kings I had were the SS drive shell that was over 5 years ago now. When they refunded the shop there money vs fixing or replacing the hub I was done with King.

    As for ratcheting do that quite a bit especially on tech climbs and slow speed rock gardens. to aid in the ratcheting i do lots of weight shifting, unweighting, and body English getting me through stuff. I avoid mashing up hills if I can and try to spin. I do ride steel hard tail and do allot of hovering just above the seat allowing my arms and legs to work as the shocks not just plow in with the bike.

    The wheelset that I'm fighting with right now has about 2500 miles on it and has stayed true and round from day 1 when I built it. No flat spots or rim dings that you would normally get if i was riding like a boob. Also I'm set up with 27.5+ right now with 3" tires so that alone helps the shock load on the hubs.

    started this thread mainly to see what others have had good luck with and especially see what big guys have been able to break on the DT hubs. I have been thinking DT for a long time as the ratchet concept is very good to my engineers mind but always ended up with something else mostly due to the low engagement of the DT. we will see how it all works out in the end.
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  26. #26
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    I'm big. I'm strong. I ride hard. I ride crap conditions. I do lots of climbs. I don't break anything. I just can never understand exactly how some folks just destroy stuff constantly. I'm just happy I'm not one of them.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

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    Iv'e heard White Industries are bomb proof.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spleeft View Post
    Iv'e heard White Industries are bomb proof.
    I must say I have never seen one of there hubs in person worth looking at.
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

  29. #29
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    White Industries make a pretty stout hub that is often overlooked. The newer XMR Boost hubs feature cro-mo axles and a ti freehub body with a three pawl, 48 tooth engagement which is pretty strong.

    Just putting that out there for an alternative to the already mentioned DT 350 hubs.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    I'm big. I'm strong. I ride hard. I ride crap conditions. I do lots of climbs. I don't break anything. I just can never understand exactly how some folks just destroy stuff constantly. I'm just happy I'm not one of them.
    I don't even break Shimano hubs and I've broken multiple aluminum frames in that same time period.

  31. #31
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    I weigh 30 lbs less than you and 3 inches taller. I've ridden hard and not trashed anything close to what you have. If all big guys trashed everything I could understand. Just because you've ridden a long time does not make you a smooth rider. However, you seem to want to pay for tough hubs so the industry must love you.

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    I have the same question. In 2015, I broke 5 hubs (Ibis, DT Swiss, 2 x Mavic, Shimano). Two of the hubs were rebuilt and failed again, so that makes 7 failures in one year.

    This year (2017) I've broken 2 hubs (2 x Spank).

    I'm 6', 160 lbs but ride a lot of gnar and ride a lot in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    I weigh 30 lbs less than you and 3 inches taller. I've ridden hard and not trashed anything close to what you have. If all big guys trashed everything I could understand. Just because you've ridden a long time does not make you a smooth rider. However, you seem to want to pay for tough hubs so the industry must love you.
    Since when is "pedal smoother" an answer to: "What's are the toughest hubs?"

  34. #34
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    I'd probably go with a DT 540 tandem hub , if you kill that one you might want to reevaluate your form.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnD View Post
    I'd probably go with a DT 540 tandem hub , if you kill that one you might want to reevaluate your form.
    Ya that one is on my radar. If the replacement hub that the current project fails like it's originally the DT540 is leading my list
    No guts no glory, No brains same story.

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    I say you go back to try CK again with SS drive and I don't understand why they're a constant maintenance battle. I'm 6'5" and have ridden anywhere from 295lbs up to 335lbs (over 340 w/ gear) and never once had an issue and I don't avoid tech, rocky stuff, and here in NorCal where I live there's a ton of climbing. I have 5 sets of wheels built with CK hubs and zero issues. I take that back, I once had the bearing wear out on one rear hub. Sure, you have to buy the tool to if you want to service them yourself, or I just pay my shop $35 to service them every couple of years, which is no biggie. The guy who builds my wheels is around 265-270 and he rides I9's with no issues.

    On the other hand, I've broken a couple Shimano and DT hubs in the past, before I knew what was what. As other guys have said, I too don't get how guys break stuff so much. I haven't even broken a spoke in over 7 years.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Since when is "pedal smoother" an answer to: "What's are the toughest hubs?"
    It's the answer when something other than the durability of the hub is the reason for constantly breaking them.
    Super snowflake = when an avatar offends you so much you have to cry about it and report it to admin. Life must suck for you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    It's the answer when something other than the durability of the hub is the reason for constantly breaking them.
    How do we know when it's "other than durability?" I don't disagree that pedaling smoother is definitely a laudible goal, but I don't want to get stuck out in the middle of nowhere because I happen to pedal "incorrectly" on a ride. Why chance that? I need something that can handle my pedaling.

    And from reading this very forum two years ago, as a ~260lb rider, I found the hub that could handle what I throw at it: DT Swiss 350 (non-pawl ratchet system). Still using the same hub on a second wheel. Simple. Stopped getting stranded by my hubs.

    I'm just happy there are people out there who are more helpful than "pedal smoother"...

  39. #39
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    I've broken Hadley, Hope, Sun Ringle, and many Shimano hubs. Only hub that I adamantly recommend for durability are the DT 440 hubs. They don't make them anymore but you can sometimes score em on ebay. The 350 hubs are probably almost as durable though for a great price. I've never had an 18t ratchet fail. Handles lots of torque.

    I've been drooling over Onyx but the price of entry has kept me away so far. Get a DT hub and it'll last.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch1413 View Post
    Only hub that I adamantly recommend for durability are the DT 440 hubs. They don't make them anymore but you can sometimes score em on ebay. The 350 hubs are probably almost as durable though for a great price.

    The guts of rear DT 240s, 350, and 440 are for all intents and purposes identical. 340 and 540 are close enough to fall under the same blanket.

  41. #41
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    6'2" 250lbs, was 300 but can lay down way more power now... 350 18t on my fatbike, zero issues. Blew the Bontrager freehub 3 times previous.

    Blew multi shimano, big loud pawled sun ringles. Running a 240 boost 36t on my top fuel and its been zero issues too.

    Ill never run anything else. Walking home sucks, specially in winter!
    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

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