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  1. #1
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    Sweet New Bike Hauler!



    So, in the midst of crazy gas prices, I decided to sell my 05 Tacoma and get something a bit more efficient. I originally was completely set on the Honda Fit Sport. I have an Element SC and love it, and I saw the Fit as a mini version. I really like hatchback vehicles because I think they have a more useful trunk/rear space. After testing out the Fit, I was impressed. It felt good, it was simplistic (which I like), functional, and most importantly efficient.

    On my way out of the dealership, I decided to stop at the Toyota dealership and take a look at the Scion xD. They had a white xD(the color I wanted, but could not get the Fit in) with steel wheels right in the front. I was unimpressed with the appearance (yes, that does matter to me). Once I got in it though, it was much ncer and roomier than the fit. I liked the interior much more, had more features, like a an IPod port, and the seats were much more comfy. the trunk space was limited, but with the seats down was more than enough. I planned on bying a hitch and a Thule T2 rack regaurdless of the car I bought.

    Then I saw this beauty. It was speced with nice 18's, in the color I wanted, at a better price than the Fit. I now have about a week in the car, I am averaging 34mpg in the city. The car has about 20HP more than the Fit, though the published mileage is about the same. Being that it is a Carolla motor and tranny, I am confident it will be super reliable.

    I purchased a Curt Manufacturing hitch. It mounts directly to the frame, not a cheasy setup like some hitches. It uses 2 5/8" main bolts (huge) and 4 3/8" bolts. Nice and solid.

    And now the best part:












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  2. #2
    ballbuster
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    Nice!

    I've been contemplating a Fit myself. I totally forgot about the Scions except for the new Xb toaster, which now gets like 26 mpg. It used to get around 35, IIRC.

    I ought give this a look-see.

  3. #3
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    Good god is that ugly. I like it .
    "The mouth of justice contemplates wisdom."

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    I've been contemplating a Fit myself. I totally forgot about the Scions except for the new Xb toaster, which now gets like 26 mpg. It used to get around 35, IIRC.

    I ought give this a look-see.

    Do yourself a favor and do so. I was completely sold on the Fit until I saw this. Also, the purchasing experience is so different at a Scion dealer. No muss, no fuss. Took less than 1 hour and I was out the door.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bob
    Good god is that ugly. I like it .

    Hell yeah! My wife's family thinks we are trying to own the ugliest cars on the planet . With an Element and a Scion, they might be right.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    I've been contemplating a Fit myself. I totally forgot about the Scions except for the new Xb toaster, which now gets like 26 mpg. It used to get around 35, IIRC.

    Don't forget that the EPA changed it's guidelines so a car/truck that last year was said to get 30 mpg city might now be said to get 27 mgp city. It's an estimate and will obviously change depending on your driving habits. I drive my Chevy C1500 like my grandmother drives her recliner (very slow) and I can eek out 17 mpg in the city and sometimes 21 on the highway which is excellent for my anti-green machine. My wife drives a Honda Civic and she thinks she's constantly entered in a NASCAR race and burns thru gas like a fat girl thru chocolate. I'm sure she gets way less than the advertised mgp.

    Soccerdude

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Hell yeah! My wife's family thinks we are trying to own the ugliest cars on the planet . With an Element and a Scion, they might be right.
    You need a Pontiac Aztek and an AMC Gremlin to round out the collection.

  8. #8
    ballbuster
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    Yeah,

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerdude
    Don't forget that the EPA changed it's guidelines so a car/truck that last year was said to get 30 mpg city might now be said to get 27 mgp city. It's an estimate and will obviously change depending on your driving habits. I drive my Chevy C1500 like my grandmother drives her recliner (very slow) and I can eek out 17 mpg in the city and sometimes 21 on the highway which is excellent for my anti-green machine. My wife drives a Honda Civic and she thinks she's constantly entered in a NASCAR race and burns thru gas like a fat girl thru chocolate. I'm sure she gets way less than the advertised mgp.

    Soccerdude
    ... which I think is kinda lame. The old EPA estimates were pretty good in my experience. I've been driving VWs for the last 20+ years, and always managed to get at or above the EPA estimates. FWIU, VW underestimates thier stuff by a tad anyway. HP and torque figures, too.

    My 4 banger '96 GTi was rated at 32 MPG freeway, and I typically get 32-33 MPG when I drive light footed and stay under 80 MPH in mostly freeway, some city driving. I do tend to hammer up the on-ramps, tho. My wife's VR6 Jetta was rated at 27 MPG freeway, but we managed to coax 33 out of it driving to LA.

    I hear the Fit is now rated at 36 MPG freeway for the stick, but I hear folks regularly get 40+. I think big oil had something to do with it to make the Prius not look as good... Just my foil hat theory.

  9. #9
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    Are those wheels stock?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Padre
    Are those wheels stock?
    Nope. They are Lenso Ultra Lites in 18". I am running 225/40/18 Falken tires. Loving the car more and more. Second tank of gas...34mpg
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  11. #11
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    i am considering selling my '01 tacoma for the same car...... i think its a great car.... reliable, efficient, roomy, reasonably priced, has a few cool features and its unique.

    otherwise it might be a prius....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urnicus
    i am considering selling my '01 tacoma for the same car...... i think its a great car.... reliable, efficient, roomy, reasonably priced, has a few cool features and its unique.

    otherwise it might be a prius....

    So far, it has been great. Since the motor and tranny are form the new 09 Carolla, reliability will not be an issue. I really like the Yaris sedan as well, but the xD has more room and the hatchback is more useful.
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  13. #13
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    Congrats on a nice car, but you really can't use gas prices to justify it. The biggest cost of a new car is not fuel, but depreciation, which is so great that fuel prices will never overcome it. Assuming your 05 Tacoma was paid for (or nearly so), spending $17k(?) or so on a new car to save fuel makes no economic sense. If it wasn't paid for, then you really like throwing money at new cars!

    In any case, you wanted a new car and it looks good, but don't kid yourself that fuel savings will ever pay for it.

  14. #14
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    canuckjgc,

    You are missing a key point,he didn't spend 17K on the new car, he spend the difference between what he sold his Tacoma for & price on the new car.

    A normal 05 Tacoma 4X4 goes for around 13K, so his outlay would only be about 4K.

    You can make that up in gas cost.

    With that said I just ordered a 08 Tacoma, I could care less about the cost of gas...

  15. #15
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    Even so, it will still take years to get to that $4k as the Fit does not get double the mileage of the Tacoma there might be a $1,000 yr difference between the two (generous). Which means 4 years. But you're still looking at a $3k or so per year depreciation cost, which, as I said, overcomes the fuel cost in no time. The 05 Tacoma's depreciation was already starting to flatten. In the end it will take many, many years for the Fit to save the fuel costs and depreciation costs on itself and those already incurred on the Tacoma. It can not make econ sense.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuckjgc
    Congrats on a nice car, but you really can't use gas prices to justify it. The biggest cost of a new car is not fuel, but depreciation, which is so great that fuel prices will never overcome it. Assuming your 05 Tacoma was paid for (or nearly so), spending $17k(?) or so on a new car to save fuel makes no economic sense. If it wasn't paid for, then you really like throwing money at new cars!

    In any case, you wanted a new car and it looks good, but don't kid yourself that fuel savings will ever pay for it.

    Great point.

    You also forgot to add in depreciation to the list of expenses that outweigh gasoline. With a 5 year, 4% note he would have shelled out 1700 in interest.

  17. #17
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    Aren't you guys assuming that gas prices are not going to continue rising? It seems clear to me that they haven't really leveled off yet. They've just started inching up again in my area (Pittsburgh) after a few weeks of relative stability.

    I used to drive a pickup truck that got just over 20mpg (98 Ford Ranger). It was almost paid off, but reliability was questionable. The brakes on it were absolute crap and I needed significant brake repairs on a yearly basis. I traded it in for a Honda Fit. I would have preferred to replace it with another truck, but to make it work for me financially, I needed better fuel economy to even out my monthly expenses. I needed to average better than 30mpg to keep my expenses roughly equal.

    Then there was the reliability factor. The aging truck already had issues with the parking brake, and quantifying the additional hassle of dealing with those sorts of repairs is significant. In the end, buying a new, more reliable car with good fuel ecomony made the most economic sense.

    Yeah, depreciation sucks, but it's not really a factor unless you plan on trading it in fairly soon. If you plan on keeping it for awhile, the extra use you get out of it makes up for the hit on depreciation you take.

    Personally, I wish the XD had been available a year ago. At the time, I looked at the XA and I really disliked the car. The cargo space was lacking and the gauge cluster really bothered me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Hell yeah! My wife's family thinks we are trying to own the ugliest cars on the planet . With an Element and a Scion, they might be right.

    LOL... I love both those cars..

    Congrats on the ride... I'm biased to white cars though.

  19. #19
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    gas

    first off congrats on the new car

    but canuck is completely correct. I am sick of friends and family attempting to justify a new car purchase due to increased in MPG. Its really just simple financial math.

    So lets say you sell your paid off car for 14K car that gets avg 19mpg to fund a 18K car that gets avg 34mpg. Lets say you drive 15K/year and at (lets be generous) $4/gal, your saving roughly $2K/year in gas. Figure in taxes, title, depcreciation of new car, money lost in load interest, money lost in trading in/selling older car just to get rid of it, time and energy spend in process, plus any new accessories or modifications, and your generally looking at much smaller, not as nice car (not referencing OP) that you won't even begin to reap and gas savings until 4-5 years down the road. By that time, you are looking for a new car!!!! Trust me, I have though of trading in my SUV many times but realize it's just not worth it

  20. #20
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    I can get what you guys are saying. I certainly came off like I was trying to "justify" the purchase with gas savings. I did not go in to this blind, and am aware of the costs associated with it. That said, with the gas savings and the interest savings, this is a wash for me. Besides, you don't get a credit score like mine if you spend money irresponsibly

    But, recently my wife and I have been having a change of heart. We are working to be more green people. We recently redid our landscaping to include desert lanscaping rather than grass. This will help with water conservation. And yes, I considered the the green-ness of the car over the truck. The truck was no longer of use to us, and simply overkill for the 35k miles a year we were driving it. Now we have 2 vehicles that are LEV's and get great gas mileage. I just have an issue with being wasteful. And since I can afford it...well...

    Lead by example, right?
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I can get what you guys are saying. I certainly came off like I was trying to "justify" the purchase with gas savings. I did not go in to this blind, and am aware of the costs associated with it. That said, with the gas savings and the interest savings, this is a wash for me. Besides, you don't get a credit score like mine if you spend money irresponsibly

    But, recently my wife and I have been having a change of heart. We are working to be more green people. We recently redid our landscaping to include desert lanscaping rather than grass. This will help with water conservation. And yes, I considered the the green-ness of the car over the truck. The truck was no longer of use to us, and simply overkill for the 35k miles a year we were driving it. Now we have 2 vehicles that are LEV's and get great gas mileage. I just have an issue with being wasteful. And since I can afford it...well...

    Lead by example, right?
    Interesting post.

    I would probably focus some effort on reducing this:
    ...the 35k miles a year we were driving it.
    if you really want to become "greener".

    New cars...houses...bikes...x...y...z...are nice, but it is unlikely that we are going to be able to "spend" our way to greener county; no matter what all the marketing/political/business talking heads tell us.

    I would think that leading by example would require some *tough* lifestyle choices to really be effective.

    Not bashing you...don't know you...just different schools of thought.

    LP

    PS - Congrats on the new car.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanpope
    Interesting post.

    I would probably focus some effort on reducing this:

    if you really want to become "greener".

    New cars...houses...bikes...x...y...z...are nice, but it is unlikely that we are going to be able to "spend" our way to greener county; no matter what all the marketing/political/business talking heads tell us.

    I would think that leading by example would require some *tough* lifestyle choices to really be effective.

    Not bashing you...don't know you...just different schools of thought.

    LP

    PS - Congrats on the new car.
    Very good points, but we all to start somewhere right?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    I think big oil had something to do with it to make the Prius not look as good... Just my foil hat theory.
    No, it was owners of Prius and Insights complaining quite loudly that they were not getting close to the rated MPG. I think it boiled down to some people bought the car expecting it to be a magic mileage bullet and it didn't turn out to be because you cannot drive it like it's a sports car and expect to get the rated mileage.

    On a related note, VW TDI owners regularly would exceed the rated mileage.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    I can get what you guys are saying. I certainly came off like I was trying to "justify" the purchase with gas savings. I did not go in to this blind, and am aware of the costs associated with it. That said, with the gas savings and the interest savings, this is a wash for me. Besides, you don't get a credit score like mine if you spend money irresponsibly

    But, recently my wife and I have been having a change of heart. We are working to be more green people. We recently redid our landscaping to include desert lanscaping rather than grass. This will help with water conservation. And yes, I considered the the green-ness of the car over the truck. The truck was no longer of use to us, and simply overkill for the 35k miles a year we were driving it. Now we have 2 vehicles that are LEV's and get great gas mileage. I just have an issue with being wasteful. And since I can afford it...well...

    Lead by example, right?
    When you say lead by example, I have to challenge you on this.

    How is buying a new car -- with all the energy and resources it takes to produce and ship it -- more environmentally friendly than "reusing" your existing car that already has those sunk costs accounted for? Buying and keeping a used car is the ultimate in recycling, is it not? You would have purchased 2 new cars in the space of 3 years!

    In my view, people (and perhaps not you) often justify consumerism with a veneer of the greater good of the environment without taking the time to assess their choices. Buy hey, that's just me.

  25. #25
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    If he's putting 35k per year on the Tacoma, as he claims, he's got close to 100k on it already. It's not like he's dumping a barely used vehicle. And at 35k per year, he's spending $6125 a year on gas assuming 20mpg(EPA rates it 18-22 depending on model) and $3.50/gallon. EPA rates the Scion at 29mpg, that's $4224 per year for gas, saving almost two grand per year....assuming gas prices stay constant(I'd bet they'll increase) And that Tacoma is going to start needing repairs soon--even Toyotas go through timing belts, starters, and alternators--while the Scion should be trouble free for at least 3 years.

    I think he made a smart move.

  26. #26
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    A lot of people will change their cars after 3 to 5 years no matter what. So I find that changing the Tacoma for this small, cute and practical Scion is a very smart move. I changed my 03 CRV this year for a Fit. I did all the calculations, taking into account depreciation (based on edmunds), maintenance, insurance, interest and so on, put all that in an Excell worksheet and over a five year period with a small price increase in gaz, it was more economical to get the Fit then keep the CRV. And if gaz prices rise way more then there is no contest, the Fit is the winner by far. He had a Tacoma, which probably takes even more gaz then my CRV.

    Sure, producing new cars is not environment friendly but if people are going to change anyway then lets applaud the ones that change a gaz guzzler for a small car. If we were all that smart, we would probably have less smog warning days in our cities.

  27. #27
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    I have a Dodge Dakota w/ 150,000 miles that get about 17-18 mpg (which I hate) but the only reason I'm keeping it is because it's paid off.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkumtrider
    I have a Dodge Dakota w/ 150,000 miles that get about 17-18 mpg (which I hate) but the only reason I'm keeping it is because it's paid off.

    Im right there with you. I have a 96 tacoma but i just cant afford to get a new car. Im in construction so i cant have a car i have to have a truck to hall all my tools. It sux i wish my compnay would pay for my gas.

  29. #29
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    sorry to bring a post up from the dead, but just wondering if the rack is still working out ok for you? ... i have an 08 xb .. and needing to replace my cheap receiver rack with one that has more stability to it ... do you have any sway issues while going down the road and such? ...

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Devil-
    sorry to bring a post up from the dead, but just wondering if the rack is still working out ok for you? ... i have an 08 xb .. and needing to replace my cheap receiver rack with one that has more stability to it ... do you have any sway issues while going down the road and such? ...
    Best rack I have ever used. I would highly recommend it. I use it about 5-6 days per week.

    UPDATE:

    I so love this car. After lowering, it handles and looks better. I am hoping as the car breaks in more to get some better mileage, maybe closer to the 36-37mpg. Even at $4.15 per gallon, fillups are "cheap". At current gas prices, I am saving about $3000 per year. I really got lucky with timing. I would have lost big time on the truck value had I waited, and the price of these cars is going up quickly. I avoided the double whammy. Nice to see here in Phoenix that the size of the vehicle on the road is changing. Seeing lots of Scions, Fits, and Versas out on the street. Car lots are overflowing with large vehicles, what a mess.

    I will be heading out of the valley much less for riding though
    Last edited by tiSS'er; 06-11-2008 at 01:56 PM.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er
    Best rack I have ever used. I would highly recommend it. I use it about 5-6 days per week.

    UPDATE:

    I so love this car. After lowering, it handles and looks better. I am hoping as the car breaks in more to get some better mileage, maybe closer to the 36-37mpg. Even at $4.15 per gallon, fillups are "cheap". At current gas prices, I am saving about $3000 per year. I really got lucky with timing. I would have lost big time on the truck value had I waited, and the price of these cars is going up quickly. I avoided the double whammy. Nice to see here in Phoenix that the size of the vehicle on the road is changing. Seeing lots of Scions, Fits, and Versas out on the street. Car lots are overflowing with large vehicles, what a mess.

    I will be heading out of the valley much less for riding though
    What other mods have you done to your xd? CAI or headers? I have an xa and I regularly get 37mpg, but all my driving is highway and its a manual, much better than my full sized Chevy P/U that gets 15mph (it's been relegated to pulling the boat and hauling crap!).
    You can't test courage cautiously.

    -Annie Dillard

  32. #32
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    I think anytime buying a *new* car just to save gas is plain out silly and never look at it like that. If you want to feel newer, special or just lack of security of not wanting to repair your car (paid off or not) is better way to go.

    I found an calculator about that:

    http://www.edmunds.com/calculators/gas-guzzler.html

    And here's more cool info:

    http://frugaldad.com/2008/04/09/buyi...n-gas-mileage/

    ~~ Now that I have no car payment or debt to put to it. I much, much prefer to repair my ride and not making $300.00+ payments per month for a loan of 36-60 months. BLAH!!

    I love giggle'in and saving my 300.00+ which I used to spend drving a new fresh smelling car that NO ONE ever cared about. I guess whatever fits your lifesytle and needs good for you. BTW... cool vehicle man.

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