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  1. #1
    keepin' it rural
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    Subaru XV Crosstrek

    Subaru XV Crosstrek | The New 2013 XV Crosstrek

    Looks like a interesting option for a good outdoor/bike hauler that gets pretty good gas mileage. Been looking for a decent car/suv to supplement my full size truck for when i dont need the space and 4WD.

    I have never owned a Subaru, so i would be curious to see what you guys who are familiar with them have to say. I have a call into the local dealer to email me when they get one in so i can go down and have a look and a test drive.

    The pre-reviews seem to be fairly good except that most are saying its a little under powered at 148 HP.

  2. #2
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    My wife and I are interested in one of these to replace her Jeep Liberty.

    I have put out some e-mails to multiple dealers asking questions (and hoping upon hoping that if enough people ask for the diesel version, that Subaru will bring it to the US in that car), and one of them has had the chance to test drive one. It's basically a lifted version of the Impreza 5dr. That dealer got to test drive one and he sent me some side-by-side pics.

    He says that the suspension on the XV is surprisingly tight given the ground clearance and says that it feels much quieter than the Impreza.

    I'd want to climb in one and see what it feels like before deciding 100%. I drive an 07 Fit Sport with a much less powerful engine, and it feels spritely enough for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Subaru XV Crosstrek-xv2.jpg  

    Subaru XV Crosstrek-xv3.jpg  


  3. #3
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    So it's the "new" Impreza Outback model?

  4. #4
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    basically, from what i gather it is a lifted Impreza with a new body.

  5. #5
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    Meh. Needs more engine.

    Why pack 500 lbs of performance enhancing mechanical equipment onto a base model Impreza without improving its heart and muscle?
    trust the tread

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  6. #6
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    I have a Subaru Outback and on the forums the biggest gripe with the XV seems to be the engine power or lack thereof. However it all depends on what you need the car for and what you expect it to do for you. A test drive will reveal all and should help the OP in making a final decision.
    Quality wise my Subaru has been very good and the resale value in general is among the highest.
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  7. #7
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    For the $25k MSRP I'd buy a [used] 2011 Impreza with some factory warranty on it, throw in a new stereo, put on a hitch and rack, buy new tires and wheels and put the remaining $6k toward a new bike or two... Or buy a used WRX hatch.

    If I absolutely had to go new, I'd still get a regular Impreza hatch over the Crosstek. I can't see how the extra 3" clearance is going to help unless you are on some seriously rough back roads all the time, in which case a lifted truck might be a better option.

    Full disclosure; I own a 2002 WRX wagon and a 2010 STI hatch. I have beat the living **** out of the WRX, and it won't die. Gravel roads, snowbanks, potholes, ditches, airtime, sorta-accidental drifting - it comes back for more. The parts I have worn out are generally replaceable by your average backyard mechanic - struts, spark plugs, tires, light bulbs...

    The downsides - the interiors are pretty cheap, and they develop rattles after a year or two. Since it's AWD, you need to be smoother with the clutch [obviously, this is not a factor with CVT and auto transmissions]. Dealer parts are very expensive compared to aftermarket and performance bits. The paint is thin and chips easily.

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    I own a 2011 STi hatch and pinkrobe is dead on on the description. I have owned Fords my entire life and took a chance on the STi and absolutely love it. I had a 2011 Mustang GT that was almost fully loaded and sold it for the STi (biking reasons mostly) and I don't regret it at all. Even the Mustang had a nicer interior than the STi but that's not something that really bothers me. I believe I read somewhere that Subaru really doesn't warranty rattle noises because they are bound to happen (especially on an STi). But I absolutely love this car. I bought the extended warranty and was really impressed by it. I will drive this car until it dies and then replace it with another Subaru most likely. The Subie already has a few paint chips. I cannot wait until it snows. My husband hated my 2003 and my 2011 Mustang GTs but absolutely loves the STi and wants to get either a WRX or maybe an Outback. He also decided against the Crosstrek because of the lack of power.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfisher1971 View Post
    Meh. Needs more engine.

    Why pack 500 lbs of performance enhancing mechanical equipment onto a base model Impreza without improving its heart and muscle?
    At $22k you're not going to get much more power. Put a WRX motor in that thing and its a different story, but then the price will jump to $28k.

    Either way, I like it.
    Vermonter - bikes, beers and skis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csledd281 View Post
    I own a 2011 STi hatch and pinkrobe is dead on on the description. I have owned Fords my entire life and took a chance on the STi and absolutely love it. I had a 2011 Mustang GT that was almost fully loaded and sold it for the STi (biking reasons mostly) and I don't regret it at all. Even the Mustang had a nicer interior than the STi but that's not something that really bothers me. I believe I read somewhere that Subaru really doesn't warranty rattle noises because they are bound to happen (especially on an STi). But I absolutely love this car. I bought the extended warranty and was really impressed by it. I will drive this car until it dies and then replace it with another Subaru most likely. The Subie already has a few paint chips. I cannot wait until it snows. My husband hated my 2003 and my 2011 Mustang GTs but absolutely loves the STi and wants to get either a WRX or maybe an Outback. He also decided against the Crosstrek because of the lack of power.
    I am considering getting a Subaru in the future, but it would be my first non GMC/Chevy vehicle. Glad to see you are happy with the Subaru after several fords.
    In my opinion, Subaru has cars that fill a void in the american car makers lineup, a smaller car that is capable in inclement weather, gets good MPG, and roomy enough to haul alot of different things.
    The Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain, and Ford Escape all lack that Roominess, Superior AWD System, and Rugged Utility grade exterior. Plus they all cost more than a Forester or Outback!

    As for the XV, i like the raised stance, but the wheels are terrible looking......if it had the wheels swapped from the other impreza in the pic it would look alot better.
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    The wife and I are eyeing the XV to replace our 07 Impreza 2.5i wagon when the time comes. Why? Power is plenty enough for us, at 31 I'm way past racing around. Hell, I hardly even drive anywhere unless its to/from the trail or other biking event.

    That said, when we go camping or to the in-laws, there normally is some off-roading involved. No where near enough to justify buying a gus-guzzling truck, but enough that the extra ground clearance would be a blessing.

    I've scrapped enough stuff with our current wagon, had to bend and re-attach muffler shields, broke clips on the front under-guard, etc. Not to mention the saggy-butt issues, especially when loaded.

    A truck would be overkill, but the XV pretty much hits the nail on the head. Sure, I could always throw some Forester struts under the current car, which we've considered, but getting a new ride, with everything covered by warranty seems like a darn good idea.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    The wife and I are eyeing the XV to replace our 07 Impreza 2.5i wagon when the time comes. Why? Power is plenty enough for us, at 31 I'm way past racing around. Hell, I hardly even drive anywhere unless its to/from the trail or other biking event.

    That said, when we go camping or to the in-laws, there normally is some off-roading involved. No where near enough to justify buying a gus-guzzling truck, but enough that the extra ground clearance would be a blessing.

    I've scrapped enough stuff with our current wagon, had to bend and re-attach muffler shields, broke clips on the front under-guard, etc. Not to mention the saggy-butt issues, especially when loaded.

    A truck would be overkill, but the XV pretty much hits the nail on the head. Sure, I could always throw some Forester struts under the current car, which we've considered, but getting a new ride, with everything covered by warranty seems like a darn good idea.

    I agree with this statement. At 33mpg hwy, this is more like an economy car than a zippy sports car, which is what the STi's and WRX's are. I compared curb weight and torque of the XV with my current Honda Fit and my wife's liberty. The XV is comparable (in fact, the ratio is nearly identical) to the Honda. Similar mpg, so I'm not surprised. Of course, the Jeep has more torque relative to vehicle weight, but that's to be expected from a vehicle rated to tow as much as the Jeep. On paper, it looks like the XV will be fine. All I ask is for some extra ground clearance for rough roads and snow.

  13. #13
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    I think Subie may have a winner here. Not many AWD Crossovers are available with a stick, not to mention, are rated at 33mpg and $22k list price. I would check one out.

    And, it doesn't look like it was beaten with Subaru's ugly stick too much. Although, those rims are pretty gash.

    I can live with the meh 0-60 times as long as it corners okay. My Avant is rated at 150hp with good torque numbers, and weighs 200 pounds more than the Subie. It has plenty of pickup for my tastes.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 09-09-2012 at 09:47 PM.

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    I own a 2011 outback sport and love it! Enough ground clearance for most.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I think Subie may have a winner here. Not many AWD Crossovers are available with a stick, not to mention, are rated at 33mpg and $22k list price. I would check one out.

    And, it doesn't look like it was beaten with Subaru's ugly stick too much. Although, those rims are pretty gash.

    I can live with the meh 0-60 times as long as it corners okay. My Avant is rated at 150hp with good torque numbers, and weighs 200 pounds more than the Subie. It has plenty of pickup for my tastes.
    FWIW, the MT is not rated at 33mpg. The CVT is.

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    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    The head gasket issues have been resolved since the Gen 3 Outbacks. It was a mostly 1997-2003 model year issue on the 2.5 motor. The new Subaru's no longer have that problem and in some cases SOA has helped pay for their replacement.
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    I own Subaru Outback 2006 with 44,000 miles but will not be getting another one. I just had a misfire (both coils died etc.) last week but luckily I bought an extended warranty and my friend works at my Subaru. It is a bit of an overkill for me anyway. I will be getting a small, peppy car such as Honda Civic Si. I still do not know why I bought a big car in the first place since I am a European living in the US. It must have been peer pressure.
    “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

  19. #19
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    ... and if we just ...

    As a fellow European, I say YOU should be the peer!!
    Too bad the coils went out, but don't think Honda's don't have issues either....YMMV
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    Um, it's an Impreza with a different suspension and a slightly larger gas tank. Hardly think that's a first model year car.

    Plus it's rather premature to speculate on head gasket issues with the FB series since it's only been out a year or two. I sell them so I see bad head gaskets almost every day, but only really up to 03-04. Occasionally an 05?

    The HP of this car is perfectly fine, if you are comparing it to things like the Civic, Corolla, Focus, etc... consider that it went down from 170 to 148 when the Impreza was redesigned for 2012, yet the new generation is faster than the older gen (a lot of that has to do with the CVT though).

    If one wants more power, that's what a WRX is for.

    Anyways, back to the OP, using my dealer as an example, we are getting 10-11 for 2013, and all will likely be pre-sold special orders- we aren't anticipating any will come in for stock like to sit on the lot and for test drives and such. Typical procedure is I build a car for a customer to their liking, take a deposit, and when it shows up (earliest are coming in December), customer drives it, and if they don't like it, they get their deposit back instantly. I suspect there will be cars on the lot in the second year, though. People seem puzzled by that, but this car is a sub-model of the Impreza which is already in a demand-exceeds-supply situation.

    As far as handling, I have not driven one, but my Subaru corporate trainer who has been driving one says that it handles "98% like a normal Impreza", which would make sense. I wouldn't expect much of a difference in handling from the suspension except for if you're really pushing the car, but perhaps a noticeable difference in tires- the XV will be running some variant of a Yoko Geolandar. Methinks it might actually be same as what is on Forester Premiums and Limiteds, but I didn't get a chance to verify this the other day when the XV was on display at our store, and it's gone now.

    Honestly, if it were me I would just get a normal Impreza Sport Premium or Limited- maybe put some body spacers on from Subtle to raise it a bit if I needed to, but I personally don't live somewhere where I would need the raised suspension of the XV.

    Oh, and for goodness sake, don't get a 2011 Impreza, the 2012+ is SO much better it's ridiculous. The only way that it would be more cost effective to get a 2008-11 is if you went for an 08-10, the depreciation there would maybe pose a good argument. But then you also get 30% worse fuel economy, and an uglier car, but that's my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    This would actually be a second year car. It's just a regular impreza with a lift kit.

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    Oh, and not to be nit-picky, but there was an XV variant in europe for 2012, so all the changes made to the XV from the 2012 Impreza have already been in production for a year before coming to the US/Canada

  23. #23
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    good info, thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Um, it's an Impreza with a different suspension and a slightly larger gas tank. Hardly think that's a first model year car.

    Plus it's rather premature to speculate on head gasket issues with the FB series since it's only been out a year or two. I sell them so I see bad head gaskets almost every day, but only really up to 03-04. Occasionally an 05?

    The HP of this car is perfectly fine, if you are comparing it to things like the Civic, Corolla, Focus, etc... consider that it went down from 170 to 148 when the Impreza was redesigned for 2012, yet the new generation is faster than the older gen (a lot of that has to do with the CVT though).

    If one wants more power, that's what a WRX is for.

    Anyways, back to the OP, using my dealer as an example, we are getting 10-11 for 2013, and all will likely be pre-sold special orders- we aren't anticipating any will come in for stock like to sit on the lot and for test drives and such. Typical procedure is I build a car for a customer to their liking, take a deposit, and when it shows up (earliest are coming in December), customer drives it, and if they don't like it, they get their deposit back instantly. I suspect there will be cars on the lot in the second year, though. People seem puzzled by that, but this car is a sub-model of the Impreza which is already in a demand-exceeds-supply situation.

    As far as handling, I have not driven one, but my Subaru corporate trainer who has been driving one says that it handles "98% like a normal Impreza", which would make sense. I wouldn't expect much of a difference in handling from the suspension except for if you're really pushing the car, but perhaps a noticeable difference in tires- the XV will be running some variant of a Yoko Geolandar. Methinks it might actually be same as what is on Forester Premiums and Limiteds, but I didn't get a chance to verify this the other day when the XV was on display at our store, and it's gone now.

    Honestly, if it were me I would just get a normal Impreza Sport Premium or Limited- maybe put some body spacers on from Subtle to raise it a bit if I needed to, but I personally don't live somewhere where I would need the raised suspension of the XV.

    Oh, and for goodness sake, don't get a 2011 Impreza, the 2012+ is SO much better it's ridiculous. The only way that it would be more cost effective to get a 2008-11 is if you went for an 08-10, the depreciation there would maybe pose a good argument. But then you also get 30% worse fuel economy, and an uglier car, but that's my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    As a fellow European, I say YOU should be the peer!!
    Too bad the coils went out, but don't think Honda's don't have issues either....YMMV
    Hehe, I am sure they have problems. After 8 years without a stick shift I cannot do it anymore. I need a stick. How is Florida treating you? Are you surviving? I am in NY.

    Let my apply a small analogy to cars. Subaru AWD being a full suspension 29er and Honda Civic Si Coupe would be a rigid 29er with semi slick tires. The latter suits me better.

    On the side note, I think Subaru is really out of touch design wise. It really saddens me.
    “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickK View Post
    Hehe, I am sure they have problems. After 8 years without a stick shift I cannot do it anymore. I need a stick. How is Florida treating you? Are you surviving? I am in NY.

    Let my apply a small analogy to cars. Subaru AWD being a full suspension 29er and Honda Civic Si Coupe would be a rigid 29er with semi slick tires. The latter suits me better.

    On the side note, I think Subaru is really out of touch design wise. It really saddens me.
    Florida is ok but the summers suck as in too humid and too hot, however, I keep riding. I like our winters though..

    Subaru has gone too mainstream IMHO as well. I like my mom's '07 OB better than mine even though mine is bigger on the inside and quieter too. Quality wise they are both good.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    I would have no problem making an exception with Impreza and XV, these are still built in Japan which is a big plus IMO. I'm still driving my "first model year" 2002 WRX Bugeye wagon which was new Oct 2001, probably one of the first to come over on the boat . This car has been golden. On a side note, this car doesn't and never has rattled, still tight!And like many others that have owned these, I just can't part with it even though I can easily afford a new car. I read to many regret stories from people who sold them and then wished they hadn't! That said, the XV is right at the top of my short list for when the time inevitably comes. Meanwhile...






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  27. #27
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    XV to be built in Indiana, not overseas.

    http://sportscars2013.com/2013-subar...e-to-off-road/

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    yeah...

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    FWIW, the MT is not rated at 33mpg. The CVT is.
    I noticed that later. I wonder why? Top gear not tall enough on the 5MT?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    If you read that, it does not say that th XV is built in Indiana. the XV and Impreza is currently built in Japan. AFAIK there are no plans to change. The one I test drove at Subaru of Muskoka had Made in Japan clearly stamped in the engine bay.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I noticed that later. I wonder why? Top gear not tall enough on the 5MT?
    Different AWD systems, MT uses a viscous center diff, CVT uses an electric clutch system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    If you read that, it does not say that th XV is built in Indiana. the XV and Impreza is currently built in Japan. AFAIK there are no plans to change. The one I test drove at Subaru of Muskoka had Made in Japan clearly stamped in the engine bay.
    you're right. reading comprehension fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I noticed that later. I wonder why? Top gear not tall enough on the 5MT?
    The CVT is setup to keep the engine RPM in the optimal fuel economy range as much as possible. The 5MT gets about 3 mpg less I think. The MT is still my personal choice, I live in a rural area where I can enjoy the stickshift. If I lived in the city with constant stop&go driving I would consider the CVT even though I am not a fan of automatics. In Australia they get 6MT, and in Europe they also can get 2L diesel option...which would be awesome in this car! Even better fuel economy plus the power that everyone wants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    you're right. reading comprehension fail.

    Subaru of Indiana Automotive INC

    Models built at the Indiana plant: Outback, Legacy, Tribeca, Toyota Camry.
    That article is a good example how wordsmiths phrase things to give a reader the impression or implication they have said such-and-such without actually having said it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikerTi View Post
    Different AWD systems, MT uses a viscous center diff, CVT uses an electric clutch system.
    Really? I thought it said it was symmetrical. Meaning, always on, diffs all around, maybe with a limited slip or lock-up on the center diff.

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    There are like 4-5 different types of AWD systems in Subaru models, but yeah mtbikerTi is correct in manual versus automatic.

    Symmetrical AWD refers to the side to side symmetry. The engine faces north south and there are no funny transfer cases or whatever hanging off the side of the transmission and rear end. The system goes straight down the middle.

    For the Impreza/XV/Forester/ 4 cyl Legacy and Outback the stick shift is normally 50/50 F/R power split but shifts it if one set of wheels spins considerably faster than the other.

    For the automatic versions of those cars, the power bias is normally something close to 90% front/ 10% rear, but will shift up to 50% to the back as needed.

    I favor the manual transmission's awd system but in reality they are both superb.

    Depending on the year and trim levels there were limited slip rear diffs too, but in the non performance cars those have more or less been replaced by electronic aids.

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    I was going thru some product certification yesterday and learned this stuff- it makes me want to stop saying "an Impreza with a lift kit" lol

    -Transmission ratios have been revised to enhance towing capacity
    -Radiator has increased cooling capacity for towing
    -Front brake rotor diameter is increased to 11.6 inches from 10.9 inches on Impreza
    -Fuel tank is 1.4 gallons larger than Impreza
    -Suspension height is 3 inches higher than Impreza
    -Suspension differences include increased rigidity, stiffer spring rate, greater damping force, larger front strut tubes and brackets, larger front stabilizer bar
    -Wider track and shorter wheelbase than Impreza

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I was going thru some product certification yesterday and learned this stuff- it makes me want to stop saying "an Impreza with a lift kit" lol

    -Transmission ratios have been revised to enhance towing capacity
    -Radiator has increased cooling capacity for towing
    -Front brake rotor diameter is increased to 11.6 inches from 10.9 inches on Impreza
    -Fuel tank is 1.4 gallons larger than Impreza
    -Suspension height is 3 inches higher than Impreza
    -Suspension differences include increased rigidity, stiffer spring rate, greater damping force, larger front strut tubes and brackets, larger front stabilizer bar
    -Wider track and shorter wheelbase than Impreza
    Some real improvements there over the base Impreza...but I'm really wondering about the shorter wheelbase. I get the wider track...but how did they end up with a shorter wheelbase?
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I was going thru some product certification yesterday and learned this stuff- it makes me want to stop saying "an Impreza with a lift kit" lol

    -Transmission ratios have been revised to enhance towing capacity
    -Radiator has increased cooling capacity for towing
    -Front brake rotor diameter is increased to 11.6 inches from 10.9 inches on Impreza
    -Fuel tank is 1.4 gallons larger than Impreza
    -Suspension height is 3 inches higher than Impreza
    -Suspension differences include increased rigidity, stiffer spring rate, greater damping force, larger front strut tubes and brackets, larger front stabilizer bar
    -Wider track and shorter wheelbase than Impreza
    Sooo..... it IS an Impreza on stilts!

    Not that there is anything wrong with that.

    And, I can't believe folks are whining about 150hp. 0-60 in 10 seconds (as found in a Google search) is not going to win any street races, but is not bad. It wasn't too long ago that a VW Rabbit was 0-60 in 10 seconds was pretty dang quick for a stock economy car.

    I think in this country, we got too used to drag racing off of the line. We drive cars, not numbers on a spec sheet.

    With the oil crunch coming up, and CO2 emissions getting out of control, it won't surprise me if we are all driving around 15 second 0-60 cars in the not so distant future.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    Some real improvements there over the base Impreza...but I'm really wondering about the shorter wheelbase. I get the wider track...but how did they end up with a shorter wheelbase?
    I have no clue, that had me scratching my head, maybe the higher suspension has some negative caster dialed in or something, I dunno. I'm guessing it's a difference of a few millimeters

  40. #40
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    I think a lot of engine technology has gone into making bigger faster cars and not better fuel efficiency. We can still have fast cars, they just can't be big...well for a little while at least.
    I like to ride bikes.

  41. #41
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    Lots of good info in this thread. We own a 2002 Bugeye and I still think it's the best looking wrx ever.
    Will hate to see that car go. I think the ground clearance of the XV would be a plus for us in the Mtns. of N.C. and the occasional trip to Snow shoe WV. I agree with others that the wheels are butt ugly We test drove the 12' Impreza and found the power(CVT equiped)
    to be fine and the break at the pump made it more than worth the loss of hp.

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    I like the rims. Had I not just bought an outback sport in mid 2010 I would have gotten one of these. I paid about the same for my outback sport with the extended warranty as a cross trek would have cost me. Maybe next time? Of course next Subaru will probably have to be an outback due to family reasons.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    If you read that, it does not say that th XV is built in Indiana. the XV and Impreza is currently built in Japan. AFAIK there are no plans to change. The one I test drove at Subaru of Muskoka had Made in Japan clearly stamped in the engine bay.
    High precision parts will never be made in the USA for obvious reasons. My Subaru Outback 2006 has Japanese engine, transmission and few other bits. The rest is American and was assembled in Indiana. Not impressed.
    “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else.”

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    I'm not a huge fan of the wheels, either. If we end up getting one, I foresee probably using the existing set of 16" wheels (from the 02-04 Impreza's) I use for snow tires on the car, providing they fit over the brakes. Probably with a more off-roadable tire, too.
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  45. #45
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    The Subaru XV Crosstrek is literally the car I have been waiting for from Subaru.

    Supposedly, fun to drive, regardless if on the twisty mountain passes or off-road. The ground clearance won't be winning any rock-crawling competitions, but it sure as hell would be more capable for exploring.

    Oddly enough, I'm considering a similar philosophy for my next bike, most likely a dual-sport Trek.

    Hopefully I'll have both 2 years from now.


    As for AWD systems, the modern-day Subarus have 4 different ones:


    Active AWD: automatic transmission non-turbo EJ/FB engines (60:40 F:R normal torque split, multi-plate transfer clutch)

    Continuous AWD: manual transmission (non STI) (50:50 F:R normal torque split, viscous center diff)

    VTD AWD: automatic transmission turbo engines or EZ engine (45:55 F:R normal torque split, electronic LSD? similar to DCCD in STI)

    DCCD AWD: manual transmission GC8 (22B only), GD and newer WRX STI (35:65 F:R old DCCD, 41:59 F:R new DCCD, electronic LSD)


    As for changes to the Impreza hatch to XV, I even heard that
    the engineers even reinforced the unibody. I have no confirmation, but I found it here: Driving Sports TV - 2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Tropical Test and Review - YouTube

  46. #46
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    Too much money for that small of a car...You can get an Outback which IS a superior vehicle to the Impreza...
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Too much money for that small of a car...You can get an Outback which IS a superior vehicle to the Impreza...
    The Outback is a couple grand more, gets worse gas mileage, and is frankly more space than I need for my wife, myself, and our dog.

    If I had children, I'd probably go for an Outback, but the Impreza is the more practical car for us.

    Different strokes....
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  48. #48
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    I dig the XV. It is a shame Subaru doesn't offer a more powerful n/a motor to fill the HUGE gap between the base 2.0 and the WRX. The XV with a bit more punch under the hood would be pretty fun.

    Regardless...this is the only Subaru that has me considering jumping ship from VW. May have one of these in the garage in a couple years.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Too much money for that small of a car...You can get an Outback which IS a superior vehicle to the Impreza...
    Not everyone wants a midsize wagon, apples and oranges and all that. For what you get in an XV, it is certainly not overpriced, if you look at similarly priced CUV's, let alone nicely equipped compact cars.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    The Outback is a couple grand more, gets worse gas mileage, and is frankly more space than I need for my wife, myself, and our dog.

    If I had children, I'd probably go for an Outback, but the Impreza is the more practical car for us.

    Different strokes....
    This is exactly why the XV was needed.


    For the mid-size crossover shopper, the Outback was right.

    For the compact crossover shopper, the Forester fits right in.

    But for those who find the Forester and Outback too large, the XV fits the bill. Although the XV is also a compact like the Forester, it's smaller (and smaller = easier to deal with in crowded city parking).


    Some people would prefer not to get too much space. All the more power to those like me who don't need family-car space.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcaino View Post
    The Outback is a couple grand more, gets worse gas mileage, and is frankly more space than I need for my wife, myself, and our dog.

    If I had children, I'd probably go for an Outback, but the Impreza is the more practical car for us.

    Different strokes....
    Exactly. I like theXV but my next vehicle will be an outback. Will need the extra space.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  52. #52
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    Is it just me or did the Forester start out a lot like the XV Crosstrek before it turned into the monster it is today?
    I like to ride bikes.

  53. #53
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    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Seriously. The only thing that I will say that goes against this theory, is that if you haven't really experienced them in the past few years, modern infant and child car seats are absolutely massive. A lot of people move to midsize cars simply because they can't fit a child seat behind them (mostly taller people if we're talking modern cars of the past few years). Especially when the convertible seats are still rear facing and reclined.

    I had to give up my beloved SF Forester (which was in shockingly wonderful condition) when we found out baby # 2 was on the way, because at only 6 ft tall my seat was all the way back in that car and my knee would still be against the dash, so I could make zero concessions to a child seat behind me.

    Baby seats aside, the magical solution to not having to buy a larger car for the 3 times a year you actually need a larger car, is a cargo box for the roof. We have a Thule Atlantis and it's only like 16 cu. ft. and is amazing how much we can fit in there.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Bigger vehicles do tend to make long trips easier. For example...my wife, 21 month old, and I loaded up my 3-door Rabbit to head up to North GA for 4 or so days. Cargo space inside gets sucked up quickly so I end up putting quite a bit on the roof in a cargo bag (mainly the stroller and a few of my biking things). It is kind of tedious getting the bag up there, loading it, strapping it down, etc. Then when I get to the destination I have to unload and unstrap it so the empty bag doesn't flap around when I drive. Thankfully I am tall so I don't need a step stool or whatever but I can see it being a pain in the ass for shorter folks. MPG on the highway suffers quite a bit as well. I averaged around 21mpg highway cruising at or just below the speed limit.

    In the past we had done a longer road trip in my Passat wagon with way more crap. The interior swallowed it all and there was no change in fuel economy.

    Long story short...a larger vehicle does make things easier but it isn't a necessity. If you don't do a ton of long road trips then the overall advantage goes to going with the smaller car. If you are on the road a ton with your family then it may be advantageous to go with a larger car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    I had to go look up dimensions on the car I grew up in (1988 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight). That was a boat (and underpowered... 160HP? really?) back then, but now I see that that car was just about the same size (interior space) as my current car (2012 Mazdaspeed 3). I think cars, in general, have gotten rather fat in recent history for my car to be considered "midsize" yet be as big as a former "full size." We did road trips every summer in that car and we NEVER had a problem with space. I think people today think they need to bring more than they actually need when traveling. I mean my wife and I hauled all of our vacation crap and 13 cases (156 bottles) of wine back home last year in her 3 and were still not crowded....
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mopartodd View Post
    Too much money for that small of a car...You can get an Outback which IS a superior vehicle to the Impreza...
    Size doesn't have much to do with quality and price. You can get big crappy cars new if you really want.

    I'd rather have smaller higher quality cars that are well designed, well built and well equipped.


    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Was I the only one who grew up just fine in a family with small cars? We made long road trips annually in Cavalier-sized cars. I don't understand why people think a kid or two requires a big vehicle.
    Seriously. I hate driving big cars. I drive an F550 13,000 pound truck for work all the time. I get enough 'big' in my life.

    I can pile my wife, two kids two adult bikes, two kid bikes, and a week's worth of gear for a road trip vacation in our Audi A4 Avant wagon, and it's fine, and that was before I bought a roof box. I'm not exactly sure why folks think they need three times that cargo room for just themselves for a weekend, but some do. I guess if I were into sea kayaking or kiteboarding I might want more room.

    Some folks just grew up in Chevy Suburbans, and think that you can't do with less room than that, or something.

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  58. #58
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    Waiting for this...


    Bit larger than Impreza, probably similar to Outback but with an actual functional full length roof rail system instead of that butt ugly and totally useless piece of shiite on the Outback. Much as I love Subarus, this may have too many pluses ( including diesel) to pass up.

    link...
    2015 Volkswagen Golf Alltrack will be listed price, reviews & spesification, pictures » Worldautomodification
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    Waiting for this...


    Bit larger than Impreza, probably similar to Outback but with an actual functional full length roof rail system instead of that butt ugly and totally useless piece of shiite on the Outback. Much as I love Subarus, this may have too many pluses ( including diesel) to pass up.

    link...
    2015 Volkswagen Golf Alltrack will be listed price, reviews & spesification, pictures » Worldautomodification
    If they offered that in the states in 4motion TDI, i'd buy that.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by aircooled View Post
    I would not buy a first model year car. Too many problems. Plus, Subie's are known for head gasket issues.
    The former is outdated info by about 25 years and the latter outdated by about 10 years.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymo853 View Post
    The former is outdated info by about 25 years and the latter outdated by about 10 years.
    Actually that's wrong, first year model cars are plagued with various issues. Most of the time the design is solid, but parts components from suppliers are usually at fault. New extensive accelerated lab have been a major improvement in reliability, but even today the first and second year warranty claims are usually a cars fine tuning platform. Warranty claim numbers are reviewed, the problems with the highest amount of claims take top priority. The manufacturer then investigates and usually it means going to a supplier to have them make their part a little different.

    The subuaru head gasket problem of the late 90's and early 2000's is a classic example of this. The suppliers promised this awsome new head gasket which some car companies tested and switched too. But then after a few years problems started to arise, subaru finally switched to a new composite head gasket around 2003ish which has proven much better. Subaru axed the old part and now if you go to the dealer for a new head gasket, the parts system shows the updated part.

  62. #62
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    I would want more real world time on the new 2.0 powerplant before I buy. Let the early adopters work out the bugs.

    The Golf/Jetta Allroad thing looks pretty cool...although it is extremely lame to even offer that in FWD.
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  63. #63
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    The roof rails on the OB have been changed for MY 2013 and the crossbars are further apart than before. I don't use the roof rails on my OB so I could care less, but I see the problem for those who do, as the crossbars are too closely spaced together on the 2010/11/12 models.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    The roof rails on the OB have been changed for MY 2013 and the crossbars are further apart than before. I don't use the roof rails on my OB so I could care less, but I see the problem for those who do, as the crossbars are too closely spaced together on the 2010/11/12 models.
    That's only one problem with that abomination. Worse is that one cannot fit aftermarket rail grabbers which is what one needs for water sports. Carry 2 canoes and you need 72" bars, ideally widely spaced. Roof rails like what Mercedes and VW and (formerly older Subaru Outbacks) are far more versatile for this and everything else. For some one that as you say doesn't use the rack no big deal. For those like me, its a deal breaker.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    Waiting for this...
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    That's only one problem with that abomination. Worse is that one cannot fit aftermarket rail grabbers which is what one needs for water sports. Carry 2 canoes and you need 72" bars, ideally widely spaced. Roof rails like what Mercedes and VW and (formerly older Subaru Outbacks) are far more versatile for this and everything else. For some one that as you say doesn't use the rack no big deal. For those like me, its a deal breaker.
    My mom has the previous Gen3 OB and those rails are nicer. The only thing you can do on the new OB is to take the rails of and fit, IIRC, Thule towers in their place and than fit wider cross rails on them. Subaru missed the boat with their "clever" design..
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Subaru missed the boat with their "clever" design..
    Exactly! 'Too clever by half " I think is the expression. They should try KISS.
    Oddly enough, the current Tribeca has a very nice set of roof rails!
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  68. #68
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    Yes and the Tribeca is an outgoing model if I heard it right..For the American market SOA feels the need to make the OB look more like an SUV while in Europe the OB looks more like the VW with similar roof rails as the VW too. The OB sits also lower to the ground and has self leveling rear suspension...
    For us car nuts in the US we get the short straw...
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...
    I would guess hecho en Mexico like all the other current Jettas...unless it is on the new MKVII platform then MAYBE we will get a German made version. If memory serves the MKIV Jetta wagon was manufactured in Germany. Crossing my fingers with this new Allroad thing.
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    I agree

    I agree. The outback keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think it's gotten too big to be quite honest. If it continues to grow then the XV will be my next vehicle instead of an outback.
    It's easy to make a buck, it's much harder to make a difference."

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNickels View Post
    I agree. The outback keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think it's gotten too big to be quite honest. If it continues to grow then the XV will be my next vehicle instead of an outback.
    It's like a half an inch shorter than the 2005-09. Granted, it is wider, and a little taller. But usually bigger = less efficient. In this case, it's bigger but more efficient and faster. The only sucky thing is yeah, the handling isn't as brisk as the 05-09. And styling, I always liked the 05-09, but the 2010 plus styling is the result of modern crash regulations, so I guess such is a modern car.

  72. #72
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    ... and if we just ...

    The big improvement in the new OB is the interior space, as it is much bigger inside while keeping the dimensions on the outside within inches of the previous model. The new OB just looks bigger than it is, as it actually is an inch shorter than the Gen3.
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  73. #73
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    I would love to snatch one


    But no can do at this time!!

  74. #74
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    video review

    Here is a video i found that has some decent info on the Crosstrek.

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek exposed: Everything you&#39;ve ever wanted to know - YouTube

  75. #75
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    We might be looking at one of these VX crosstrek things to replace my wifes truck in year or two.

    It'll be a nice compliment to the JK I have. The crosstrek looks like it'll be able to handle some decently bad forest service roads and it gets decent mileage for a fulltime awd system. The big issue will be if there is enough leg/head room. The previous gen Imprezas were too tight and we ended up passing on them because of that.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    We might be looking at one of these VX crosstrek things to replace my wifes truck in year or two.

    It'll be a nice compliment to the JK I have. The crosstrek looks like it'll be able to handle some decently bad forest service roads and it gets decent mileage for a fulltime awd system. The big issue will be if there is enough leg/head room. The previous gen Imprezas were too tight and we ended up passing on them because of that.
    I strongly urge you to go check out the new ones...way more room that the previous model years...
    Oh noes. I'm going to drink the Kool-Aid.

  77. #77
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    UPDATE...sorta

    i was in contact with our local subaru dealer and they told me they had 3 coming in, i asked them to give me a call when they came in, but apparently they arrived on a friday evening and were all gone on saturday!! Dang! looks like its gonna be harder to get ahold of one of these things than i thought! On a good note they have one they are saving back for some local car show, so i can go check it out in person, but cant test drive it or try to purchase it til after the show.

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    What state do you live in? I'm the internet sales guy for my dealer, we have like 3 in stock with another 3-4 showing up over the next two weeks. I'm in eastern PA, if you are remotely nearby, you're welcome to PM me for more info!

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    I got to test drive one yesterday with the cvt. i liked it. Plenty peppy for me, and the space was good. i like the ergonomics, the light/wiper controls are the same as my Honda. I don't think my xm skydock will fit in the car, but I've been thinking about dropping that service anyway. The handling is much better than I expected. It felt pretty sporty railing it around a roundabout. Also very quiet in the rough road situations. The seat back protectors are going to be an essential accessory for bike hauling.

    I wish there were some dirt roads around where I could have gotten a feel for that part of it, so I'll have to trust that it's pretty capable there. I like the standard seat/wiper/mirror heaters. Makes it a good winter vehicle.

    We are gonna order one and were told that lead time for orders is now 4mo because some dealers were abusing the 6wk order lead times before. 7500mi oil change intervals are nice. Engine layout is also nice. Oil filter setup is the best I've seen (minor, but after owning an 88 Toyota tercel that required getting under the car to change the oil filter I notice these things).

    My car will be paid off in April so right now I'd like to have the house sold before we order. Might be a tall order but I don't want too much on our plate at once. Moving halfway across the country is expensive.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    What state do you live in? I'm the internet sales guy for my dealer, we have like 3 in stock with another 3-4 showing up over the next two weeks. I'm in eastern PA, if you are remotely nearby, you're welcome to PM me for more info!
    thanks for the offer but im in Las Vegas.

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    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!

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    I test drove one the other day. Like everyone else said it could use a little more power. Comfortable interior that makes sense. INot really nough rooom for me to sleep in the back. I didn't actually try though. It had a little stiffer/sportier suspension than what I am looking for do 300mile trips for work.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!
    Ugh! I hope that is not true. We test drove one today for my wife, and were told much shorter lead times. We really liked it. But no order placed yet, though.

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    Very true. Sorry. If your dealer has one in stock that isn't what you are looking for, you can ask them to trade with another dealer. There's a decent amount out there, at least in my area, that I've been doing that with success for most clients.

    Factory orders usually take 5-8 weeks. But they changed that like a week ago to 4 months, and I definitely believe that. If you were told otherwise either your salesperson didn't get the memo or he/she is being less than truthful.

    We have customers who pre ordered XV's before they were released, who are still waiting for cars. The crazy thing is we've seen identical cars to these ordered cars being delivered as stock vehicles to other stores! Its ridiculous. Their distribution system is effed- I'm not sure why, other than the company is growing so fast that they can't keep up? But that isn't an excuse for neglecting faithful customers who pre ordered without even seeing one in person.

    Anyway, this may be a no no for me as an employee to say on a public forum, but I figured it is best said so that none of you are disappointed. If your dealer doesn't want to try to dealer trade for you, try another dealer before factory ordering.

  85. #85
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    Thanks, XJaredX. Good info to know.

    I found two of the exact models that we are looking for within New England. We'll see what happens.

  86. #86
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    Hey guys, I'm new to this forum and fairly new to the mtb scene, but I actually just purchased an xv crosstrek a couple days ago from a dealer in NJ but they had to get it from another dealer so I'm waiting for the arrival of my new car! I've been looking for a car that could fit all my needs as a commuter, biker, drummer, and a good road trip car and this fit the bill! They are out there if you do your research and find one like I did! I suggest if you are ready to buy and find one that you jump on it asap because I've been seeing the crosstreks leave my local dealer within one day upon arrival! good luck to anyone else looking for one! ill be sure to post pics or answer any questions when mine comes in!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdrchuck View Post
    I test drove one the other day. Like everyone else said it could use a little more power.
    Not like everyone else. I think it's fine. It's an economy car.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Is that an Allroad resurrect for the masses? If built in NA thank you I am going to pass...
    Audi is bringing the Allroad back to the US, but it will be an A4 Avant, not an A6. Also, no air suspension, which was the coolest thing about the A6 Allroad.

    That said, the A4 Allroad will be like 800 pounds lighter than the A6 Allroad.



    Getting off topic here. The Allroad is probably a $45k car, compared to the Subie which is half that.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Not like everyone else. I think it's fine. It's an economy car.
    Heh... 20 years ago, a car that went 0-60 in 9.5 seconds was considered to be pretty dang peppy. An 8 second car was considered fast.

    Now we whine if our cars don't go 0-60 in 8 seconds.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    No problem.

    Also, for anyone who is thinking of ordering one: the wait time for factory orders is bumped up to at least 4 months now. So if you find one in stock you like, snag it!
    What configurations have the huge wait time? Manual transmissions? Option packages?

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    What configurations have the huge wait time? Manual transmissions? Option packages?
    ALL of them. As far as XV's go, I mean. It's ridiculous. All Japanese-made cars (except Forester, which you can't factory order anymore for '13 due to switchover to '14 production soon) are listed at 4 month ETA, all Indiana-made stuff 3 months. Oh, BRZ's are all listed as May 2013 ETA!

    This was just announced October 25th so I have no idea how accurate it is- my hope is that the cars will show up earlier than anticipated. And again, it only affects people who special order a car. I just wanted to spread the word on here- if you see an XV you like, jump on it, unless you can wait til near springtime.

    They don't give us a reason- which lends credence to my theory that maybe they are purposely overstating the estimates, as that may be better than telling a customer "6-8 weeks" and then having it turn into 16 weeks.

    They are consistently outselling themselves at least every year since I've been selling them, so I think maybe they are at a point where they are in need of more production capabilities. The '14 Forester being built in Indiana should help that, I hope. And yes, I sell them and would gladly buy an Indiana-made Subaru. I don't know why people get all weird about that.
    Last edited by XJaredX; 11-12-2012 at 12:48 PM.

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    I ordered my Crosstrek just before they bumped it out to the 4 month wait time. Heard back from the salesman a few days after that and the order had been accepted and a few days later that it was approved. Now they're telling me it will be in before the end of the month but they can't give me any better info than that. I have the VON and was wondering if there's any way to use that to get more details from SOA. I had to order one because it seems to be just about impossible to get a Limited with the black interior and moonroof. Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?

    Being carless SUX! I have only ridden once since my Challenger got wrecked by an oblivious woman running a stop sign at double the speed limit at the end of September

    Heh, if you need a BRZ my dealer has three of them waiting for a new home.

  93. #93
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    ^ your best bet is to simply ask your salesperson again. They shouldn't mind giving you an update if you ask. Ask if there's a VIN yet in addition to the VON. That's a good sign if there is

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    It should not be that hard to buy an economy car in 2012.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    It should not be that hard to buy an economy car in 2012.
    Um, it is if the manfacturer can't keep up with demand

  96. #96
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    Obviously....

    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?
    ... you don't live in a place that gets a lot of sun and heat.


    I had a Scirocco with black leather interior, and it sucked every time I got in that thing, even with towels on the seats. My behind -> Those things left barbecue grill marks on my legs when I wore shorts.

    Now, my car has tan pleather, and it's a lot better, but still sometimes singes my behind. At least the pleather cleans up really easily. If I get in my car with a muddy skunk stripe from riding, I either change my clothes, or put a towel down.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    They don't give us a reason- which lends credence to my theory that maybe they are purposely overstating the estimates, as that may be better than telling a customer "6-8 weeks" and then having it turn into 16 weeks.
    my dealer told me that part of the wait time increase was because some dealers were abusing the special order and ordering a popular model themselves before the customer came in and asked for one.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    Why would Subaru even consider a car like this with that light tan interior?
    You should hear how pissed people are at Ford for NOT offering light cloth upholstery in Texas for their c-max hybrid. My wife's jeep has tan leather and while it's not as bad as black leather it will still burn your skin. And 4yrs in Texas really took its toll on the stuff. Lots of cracking on the seats and door panels, the steering wheel wrap is floppy. Heat is not friendly to leather. My Fit has some leather accents. The leather on my shift knob is falling off. Thankfully I can replace it easily.

    When we get an xv crosstrek, I am thinking of getting some high quality washable seat covers. Maybe a neoprene or something. Just because sometimes I do get wet or muddy and don't have a change of clothes with me.

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    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    There are quite a few in my town and the nearest dealer is more than 100mi away

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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    There are quite a few in my town and the nearest dealer is more than 100mi away
    I know but come to NH, ME or VT and you will see nothing but subbies there. I would think the harsher climate states would be the primary market and that dark interior would be more fitting for that climate and road conditions.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I know but come to NH, ME or VT and you will see nothing but subbies there. I would think the harsher climate states would be the primary market and that dark interior would be more fitting for that climate and road conditions.
    I have not found it to matter much in the cold. My Fit is black all around. Sucks in TX but winters up north it is just as cold as my last car that had tan cloth.

    My dealer told me that subie tends to alternate the exterior and interior colors to appease different people in the next model year because I think some of the exterior colors would look better with dark interior than tan. For me it's mostly aesthetics. Esp since I am moving north in about a month and won't be worrying about the heat anymore

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    Picking up a Venetian Red Pearl 5 speed in about a month or so. I was looking for something good on gas, standard transmission, AWD, and could tow my motorcycles/dirtbikes. Everything had only 1 or 2 of the 4, but the XV has everything I'm looking for. Very excited to pick it up. I got the optional cross bars and trailer hitch. I plan on tossing the mountain bike and snowboards on the roof.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    Loads of Subies around here in the NorCal Bay Area. Lots of folks around here like to go to Tahoe for the weekend in winter.

    It never snows here more than a very light dusting once a decade, but we do get crazy rain.

  105. #105
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Are not Subarus more likely so be seen in colder places with a lot of snow and ice rather than in the heat of the South?
    Plenty of Subie's down here in S.Florida too. Lot's of WRX and Fozzy's and the new OB is gaining momentum also...
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    Also, no air suspension, which was the coolest thing about the A6 Allroad.

    That said, the A4 Allroad will be like 800 pounds lighter than the A6 Allroad.
    Google "Audi Allroad reliability air suspension" and it's is the #1 "issue" with that car.

    It kept me far away from buying one way back when. Lexus has/had the same issues with their Land Cruiser version LX470 with "AHC" system. Extremely expensive to fix once you develop issues.

    Bring over the TDI version A4 Allroad - then we're talking!

  107. #107
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    Oh, I fully get that

    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Google "Audi Allroad reliability air suspension" and it's is the #1 "issue" with that car.

    It kept me far away from buying one way back when. Lexus has/had the same issues with their Land Cruiser version LX470 with "AHC" system. Extremely expensive to fix once you develop issues.

    Bring over the TDI version A4 Allroad - then we're talking!
    Not to mention, most owners drive it at full height all the time. What happens is when the car hits 30 mph, it drops to the lowest setting, then lifts back up when it stops, putting loads of wear on the system.

    There are aftermarket bags that last way longer than stock, as well. One company has a lifetime warranty on the bags. You wear them out, they send you new ones, you send the dead ones back. They're actually pretty easy to change out for anybody with moderate wrenching skills.

    Heh... did you know you can lower the Allroad in software? You can use the VAG.COM to fool the computer into thinking the car is higher than it is, so the computer dumps it down lower than stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^ your best bet is to simply ask your salesperson again. They shouldn't mind giving you an update if you ask. Ask if there's a VIN yet in addition to the VON. That's a good sign if there is
    They keep telling me they don't have the VIN. Does this mean the car hasn't shipped yet or is the salesman just being lazy?

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravitylover View Post
    They keep telling me they don't have the VIN. Does this mean the car hasn't shipped yet or is the salesman just being lazy?
    If they don't have the VIN it means I highly highly doubt your car will be there before the end of the month like they said. I doubt its laziness, it takes like 10 seconds to check your order status; I'm just not sure why they told you it would arrive so quick. Factory order times on XV's have been horrible like I mentioned earlier.

  110. #110
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    Here it is




    I'll get some more pics of it tomorrow with bikes on it.

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    Awesome car! Wheels somewhat remind me of my 12' Focus at a glance.

    Post your impressions later on.

    Btw-you have a ghost in the back seat

  112. #112
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    Nice car!! Looks good in that color.
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

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    Here are a few pics of my Venetian red pearl 5 speed. They are from the dealer that is shipping the car to my current dealer. Hoping to pick it up in a couple weeks. They need to ship it and then order/install a hitch.





  114. #114
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    Just saw one of these yesterday being driven around! Pretty sharp car if I do say so myself.

  115. #115
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    Ahhhh, nice to see more XV owners now that are also fellow MTBers


    I'll have one for sure.. in 2 years

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Alberto_ View Post
    Awesome car! Wheels somewhat remind me of my 12' Focus at a glance.

    Post your impressions later on.

    Btw-you have a ghost in the back seat
    She's a cute ghost that will outride most 13 year old girl ghosts

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Nice car!! Looks good in that color.
    As soon as I saw that color I knew if I got the car it had to be in Khaki. I like the blue too but the thought of getting into the car after a muddy ride and having that tan interior made me shiver. There was just no way I could do orange and the dark grey is just kinda meh

    Impressions - It's much quieter inside than I expected. I've had Subies for fifteen years and have been in a few of the new Imprezas so I expected the typical drone on the highway but it's not there. This car has an almost full plastic skid plate underneath and the exhaust is under that so it's isolated from the cabin and there is a bunch of sound dampening material under the hood, on the firewall and the underbody has a rubbery undercoating that seems to help some too. Unfortunately the tires are noisy but I'll burn through them in year and come up with something better for 8 month use. The steering, for electric rather than otherwise, has a really good feel. On center is good and as you are cornering there is a fair bit of resistance that my Outback doesn't have and the electro-hydraulic that I had in my Challenger definitely didn't have. I like it.

    I only have 140 miles on it so a little more time and I'll get back to ya with some more thoughts. For now here's some pics -


    Hi Thelma



  117. #117
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    aftermarket upgrades

    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?
    There is no lack of power unless you are trying to compensate for something.

  119. #119
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    There is no lack of power unless you are trying to compensate for something.
    True that
    Everything is relative and if you want power than Subaru is not really a brand associated with that, the WRX STi excepted of course..
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  120. #120
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    My small penis aside, I don't see anything wrong with having a little more horsepower in a car that I plan on loading down with gear and driving through the mountains. Besides some of the chips I was looking at claim to increase horsepower as well as gaining a few MPG, how is that a bad thing?

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    So with the lack of power being one of the biggest complaints in reviews i've been reading. I wonder if there be third party performance chip upgrades and what not to squeeze out more HP?
    That isn't really going to do jack squat. If you had a turbo and could simply up the boost, take more air in, mix it with more fuel from the injectors, then yes, but "chip upgrades" are ridiculously unhelpful with a NA engine. Some people think if they put on an intake, flash the computer, and put on an exhaust, they can turn a 150hp engine into a 250hp engine. It doesn't work like that, and about the only place it does is with turbo stuff, but even that would be too big of a jump to maintain any kind of volumetric efficiency and the injectors would likely not support it. You can't get something from nothing.

    And tunes that 'increase mileage" are suspect as well. If the manufacturer knew of a quick and easy way to "increase mileage", don't you think they'd do that? Some of the ECU upgrades for cars are reported to increase mileage and power. How? By leaning out the mixture and allowing it to burn hotter. Realize that some of these engines (especially turbo) run very hot and need the extra fuel for cooling. So when a tuner looks at the mixture and see's how "rich" it is, sometimes they don't fully consider WHY it's so rich, and soon you end up wrecking the engine because they squeezed too much from it.


    BTW, I would flash and tune my WRX all the time. It was fun. But that was a different animal (with mods) and it's not the same thing.

    Some cars like 335s and others have fairly mild tunes that can be "turned up", again due to the turbo-nature of the car. Others still have "chips" for people to buy, but those are more for suckers.

    You want to make the car faster? Put in stiffer anti-sways. You can usually do that easily under the cost of a ECU flash/chip. You can often get an entire stage-1 kit for suspension under that. Then save up for coil-overs or go with an inexpensive coil-over package. Lots of people chop springs because they like the "look", but it doesn't do nearly as much for traction and handling compared to the above, and of course you'll be far quicker in corners with a stage-1 handling package, heck, just the sways along usually.
    Last edited by Jayem; 12-03-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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  122. #122
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    maybe the dude that posted the side by side pics of his car could edit to post them beneath each other and then subsequent posts would be readable?
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  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I got to test drive one yesterday with the cvt. i liked it. Plenty peppy for me, and the space was good. i like the ergonomics, the light/wiper controls are the same as my Honda. I don't think my xm skydock will fit in the car, but I've been thinking about dropping that service anyway. The handling is much better than I expected. It felt pretty sporty railing it around a roundabout. Also very quiet in the rough road situations. The seat back protectors are going to be an essential accessory for bike hauling.

    I wish there were some dirt roads around where I could have gotten a feel for that part of it, so I'll have to trust that it's pretty capable there. I like the standard seat/wiper/mirror heaters. Makes it a good winter vehicle.

    We are gonna order one and were told that lead time for orders is now 4mo because some dealers were abusing the 6wk order lead times before. 7500mi oil change intervals are nice. Engine layout is also nice. Oil filter setup is the best I've seen (minor, but after owning an 88 Toyota tercel that required getting under the car to change the oil filter I notice these things).

    My car will be paid off in April so right now I'd like to have the house sold before we order. Might be a tall order but I don't want too much on our plate at once. Moving halfway across the country is expensive.
    NateHawk - I'm looking into replacing my ooooold Civic with 220k miles and leaking like a Fox fork. I've narrowed down the choice to the Fit, Crosstrek and Mazda3. I've not driven the Crosstrek, but the Fit was really nice. Ample cargo, excellent MPG and Honda reliability. The wife got a new Outback recently and I'm really impressed. Can you do a quick comparo between the two? Just trying to see if the $5k premium would be worth it on the Subaru.

  124. #124
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    Hello All,

    New to the group. I have had my Crosstrek for three weeks and driven it over 1,500 miles in various conditions. It's a great little SUV, with great road feel, performance and mpg. My previous car was a 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT turbo. It went like a rocket (250hp), but got about 19mpg mixed. The Crosstrek obviously does not have that power, but gets WAY better gas mileage and uses regular gas (my turbo was premium only). Ignore the negative reviews that slam the Crosstrek for poor power. Yes, it's not an SRX (duh), but guess what, it's very peppy off the line and only lags a *little* in mid-range acceleration, but not nearly enough to make you think it cannot handle all conditions. I have had zero problems in traffic, up hills, merging, passing, etc. And it is also fun to drive, with good cornering and a sporty look that does not make you feel you are driving a stodgy compact. All in all, I am very happy with the Crosstrek. Oh, one minor point: the suspension is indeed stiff, real stiff. You will feel the road. For me, this took some getting used to, because I am not the spring chicken I once was. But it really does not detract from the overall high marks for the car, and no doubt will pay off when I go off-road. Well worth a test drive.

  125. #125
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    For those wondering about lead times--Not long ago I read an interview with the US ceo of Subaru - A few things stood out-He said he does not hold very many days of inventory compaired to industry standard/other car makes keep months of inventory available - Subaru does not - Subaru has a very small part of the market but a very dedicated customer base
    Interesting stuff if you like that sort of thing...Sorry I could not find the original article but found this one:
    INTERVIEW: Fuji Heavy Bets on US Market to Drive Subaru Sales Growth - WSJ.com

  126. #126
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    Fun fact: I think this is on other forums but I just learned from a Subaru tech that I work with that the Forester OEM hitch (09-13) works with the XV. I say this because if you go OEM it's a bit cheaper than the XV hitch for some strange reason. By learn, I mean saw him do it

  127. #127
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    Just got word today that my wife's XV is en route. Still 6-8 weeks out, though. Gray, Limited, loaded. Can't wait!

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Fun fact: I think this is on other forums but I just learned from a Subaru tech that I work with that the Forester OEM hitch (09-13) works with the XV. I say this because if you go OEM it's a bit cheaper than the XV hitch for some strange reason. By learn, I mean saw him do it
    Any 2" options that will work on XV. I'm new to this Subaru stuff.

  129. #129
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    Hitch

    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    Any 2" options that will work on XV. I'm new to this Subaru stuff.
    Curt has a new Crosstrek specific hitch with a 2" receiver.

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  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    NateHawk - I'm looking into replacing my ooooold Civic with 220k miles and leaking like a Fox fork. I've narrowed down the choice to the Fit, Crosstrek and Mazda3. I've not driven the Crosstrek, but the Fit was really nice. Ample cargo, excellent MPG and Honda reliability. The wife got a new Outback recently and I'm really impressed. Can you do a quick comparo between the two? Just trying to see if the $5k premium would be worth it on the Subaru.
    It is hard to make too many comparisons. I have owned the fit Since 07 and drove the xv for 20min. i like the fit. It is great but it feels cheaper inside than the xv. I also have the manual which is quicker than the auto. The xv is WAY quieter than the fit. Def worth 5k

  131. #131
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    I know the urge to compare the Crosstrek to the 3 is there but don't bother doing it.

    I am really impressed with my XV. It's a surprisingly pleasant car to drive, a little noisier on the highway than I'd like but most of that is the OE tires. The mpg is pretty good, I have a little over 1k miles on the car now and am running 28 going round trip in and out of NYC. I'm hoping to bring that up a bit after I change the diff fluids, oil and when we go to summer gas next year. I have already seen 35+ mpg on the road though and for a car with the "wind cheating" profile this has I think that's pretty good!

    Anybody that whines about the lack of power just needs to learn to use what's available, don't be afraid to wind the motor up a bit because most of the torque in this thing is between 4200 and 5k.

    I can't wait for it to snow

  132. #132
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    Finally got to drive one!...

    These thing shave been flying off the shelves her in Vegas and after two failed attempts the dealership was able to keep one on the ground long enough for us to drive. I have to say, after all the talk of no power, (my own concerns included) I felt it was plenty peppy enough. Now, we are just waiting for them to find or order us one with everything we want on it.

  133. #133
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    Cute little car that resembles a Volvo XC60 (IMO) but shorter. Not a bad thing (for me anyway) as I love the looks of that little XC60.
    2016 Trek Remedy 8 29er
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  134. #134
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    I'm happy
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Subaru XV Crosstrek-uploadfromtaptalk1355716136611.jpg  


  135. #135
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    I think the wife and I are going to put our deposit down for one after the new year. delivery will overlap well with paying off my car so we'll still only have one car payment. I think we're going to wind up getting the Limited. Pricing out the builds we want with the Premium vs Limited leaves only a $1500 price difference between the Premium and Limited models. kinda makes sense to just do the upgrade.

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    Finally picked up my venetian red pearl 5 speed yesterday! I'll try and get some pictures up later. First impression; it drives like a tall car instead of an SUV type feel which I was expecting. The car is pretty peppy down low and has plenty of passing power on the highway. I am very pleased so far and can't wait to put some more miles on it. For those with the stock stereo who thinks it sounds like ****: With the unit OFF pres 1+4+tune to put it in through mode which sounds MUCH better. Some people have found turning loudness off sounds better, but I prefer the sound with it on. To turn that off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    I think the wife and I are going to put our deposit down for one after the new year. delivery will overlap well with paying off my car so we'll still only have one car payment. I think we're going to wind up getting the Limited. Pricing out the builds we want with the Premium vs Limited leaves only a $1500 price difference between the Premium and Limited models. kinda makes sense to just do the upgrade.
    I did the same upgrade with my outback. It made no sense to a-la-carte stuff I wanted in my car when a package deal offered more for almost the same $$..
    Enjoy your new ride!
    Current ride(s) 2011 Santa Cruz Blur LT and a Norco Threshold SL with Di2

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Finally picked up my venetian red pearl 5 speed yesterday! I'll try and get some pictures up later. First impression; it drives like a tall car instead of an SUV type feel which I was expecting. The car is pretty peppy down low and has plenty of passing power on the highway. I am very pleased so far and can't wait to put some more miles on it. For those with the stock stereo who thinks it sounds like ****: With the unit OFF pres 1+4+tune to put it in through mode which sounds MUCH better. Some people have found turning loudness off sounds better, but I prefer the sound with it on. To turn that off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune.
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod
    Coming from a 2010 Golf with Dynaudio system...the XV system does sound very muffled to me. Also, the bass can only be adjusted so far before rattling the door panels.

    My planned upgrades are a Pioneer avic-x940bt navigation system with steering wheel controls, upgraded speakers, and underseat subwoofer.

    I've already added a hitch and bike rack...will post pics later.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Coming from a 2010 Golf with Dynaudio system...the XV system does sound very muffled to me. Also, the bass can only be adjusted so far before rattling the door panels.

    My planned upgrades are a Pioneer avic-x940bt navigation system with steering wheel controls, upgraded speakers, and underseat subwoofer.

    I've already added a hitch and bike rack...will post pics later.
    Do what I just said and switch the EQ to through mode. With the unit OFF press 1+4+tune to switch to through mode.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Do what I just said and switch the EQ to through mode. With the unit OFF press 1+4+tune to switch to through mode.
    I did what you said, and it sounds a bit better. The quality of speakers and especially tweeters in the dash, hold it back. Thanks for that though. Any other tweaks like that?

  142. #142
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    Here she is with hitch and rack...






  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    I did what you said, and it sounds a bit better. The quality of speakers and especially tweeters in the dash, hold it back. Thanks for that though. Any other tweaks like that?
    I have the 4 speaker Kicker upgrade and they sound GREAT. I do want to add the tweeters also though. I have found at higher volume it sounds a bit muffled with loudness on. To turn loudness off with the unit ON press 1+6+tune

  144. #144
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    Nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Here she is with hitch and rack...





    The DGM is my favorite color on the XV...looks great!
    https://www.instagram.com/bertschuh/
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    wilderness inside - Laurence Gonzales

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    The DGM is my favorite color on the XV...looks great!
    Thanks! I originally wanted an orange XV, but the only one local was a MT. This one has really grown on me. Makes the XV look classy, but tough at the same time.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by trrubicon06 View Post
    Thanks! I originally wanted an orange XV, but the only one local was a MT. This one has really grown on me. Makes the XV look classy, but tough at the same time.
    Just saw you post this bike over on the subaruxvforum.com forum . I really like the orange for some reason, but wanted dark grey or venetian red. I ultimately decided on the red despite the stupid light colored interior

  147. #147
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    You can't go wrong with DGM or Graphite Gray on any Subaru.

    My current favorite, after finally seeing it in person, is the Desert Khaki. Not sure if I would choose it tho if I bought an XV but I love that they offered it.

  148. #148
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    My wife and I ordered our XV yesterday super happy as it will be my car and she gets our Outback. This also means I was allowed to pick an Orange one The frustrating thing will be the 3 month wait for it to arrive Will post pictures once it arrives.
    Would rather be out riding!

    It's not just about a bike

  149. #149
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    Warning

    If you like to control your car and slide it around, look elsewhere.

    I have the manual. When you let off the gas the engine revs stay up. This means that if you get stuck in the snow you can't do the forward-back thing to work it out because it grinds when going from 1st to reverse.

    Furthermore the traction control does NOT turn off, even when the disable button is active. It robs the power. So when you're in the snow it cuts power, eliminating the benefits of AWD.

    Basically the care works against you. Its a huge disappointment.

    Subaru messed up the drive train on this car IMHO.
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  150. #150
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    I think your viscous setup is a little different from the one in the CVT equipped cars. I too found the nanny systems to be more intrusive than I like because you can't even force a drift to get through plow piles at corners, you just point the car straight into the pile and muscle through. I stopped in the middle of my hill and put my foot to the floor and the car wouldn't go anywhere after all the power was cut but when I just eased into it she walked right up like the road was dry. You are right about it killing the fun though, I even started a thread on the XV forum about it.

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post

    My current favorite, after finally seeing it in person, is the Desert Khaki. Not sure if I would choose it tho if I bought an XV but I love that they offered it.
    Of course you would

  152. #152
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    We got the news that ours had been assembled a lintel before Christmas. Still awaiting its arrival in port. DGM, sunroof, Nav, etc.

  153. #153
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    I see gravitylover posted 35+mpg freeway already. Anyone else have highway MPG to report? Not interested in city mileage as there are just too many variables. Thanks.

  154. #154
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    31mpg with snowboards on the roof and the 5speed model.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by boudy View Post
    If you like to control your car and slide it around, look elsewhere.

    I have the manual. When you let off the gas the engine revs stay up. This means that if you get stuck in the snow you can't do the forward-back thing to work it out because it grinds when going from 1st to reverse.

    Furthermore the traction control does NOT turn off, even when the disable button is active. It robs the power. So when you're in the snow it cuts power, eliminating the benefits of AWD.

    Basically the care works against you. Its a huge disappointment.

    Subaru messed up the drive train on this car IMHO.
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?

  156. #156
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    Does the 2.0 manual feel underpowered compared to the older 2.5 manuals in other like cars? This car has like 22 HP less than my 2009 Impreza.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?
    I think its the programming of the throttle control that keeps the rev up. Its drive by wire so they can do whatever they want. The dealer tech told me it was deliberate.

    There are threads on NASIOC and on Forrester forums about this whole TC/VDC thing and how it neuters the car's ability to be driven through snow. The fuse that disables it also affects ABS and a few other things.

    All it takes is one wheel slipping abit and the the computer kills power to ALL of the wheels. The disable button seems to have a very slight affect.

    The point of driving a manual is to have fine grained control of the drive train.
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  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by stremf View Post
    I see gravitylover posted 35+mpg freeway already. Anyone else have highway MPG to report? Not interested in city mileage as there are just too many variables. Thanks.
    27 MPG average, mixed driving.
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  159. #159
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    Just ordered a Satin White Premium 5-speed!

    Planning on installing a Curt hitch:
    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Onto which I'll mount a Kuat Beta rack:
    Products » Beta | Küat

    My question: If I'm only ever going to carry a 2-bike rack on this hitch is there any reason that I should go with a 2" rack and receiver rather than the 1.25" rack and receiver? I think the 1.25" receiver looks cleaner when the rack is not attached.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Zirkel; 01-17-2013 at 11:11 PM.

  160. #160
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    Zirkel - I just got my hitch installed tonight on my 2013 Outback. $230 out the door at uhaul. It's tucked away really well and I can't even see the receiver unless I crouch down. Lifetime warranty, too, even if I mangle it up in an accident.

    I'd go for a 2". The 1.25" tends to sway too much for me. Plus you'll have more hitch accessory options. Also, if you ever decide to tow, well, you're already set up.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by boudy View Post
    I think its the programming of the throttle control that keeps the rev up. Its drive by wire so they can do whatever they want. The dealer tech told me it was deliberate.

    There are threads on NASIOC and on Forrester forums about this whole TC/VDC thing and how it neuters the car's ability to be driven through snow. The fuse that disables it also affects ABS and a few other things.

    All it takes is one wheel slipping abit and the the computer kills power to ALL of the wheels. The disable button seems to have a very slight affect.

    The point of driving a manual is to have fine grained control of the drive train.
    Aw... that's disappointing to be honest...

    So I guess if one wants to turn VDC off for good, gotta get a WRX STI... *sigh*


    I heard the same fuse that affects VDC and ABS will even affect the speedometer

    Drive-by-wire throttle for the lose? This is why I want to have multiple Subarus for specific applications. One of those Subarus will be a carbureted mid 1980's 4WD Subaru GL wagon with a dual-range manual transmission.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Just ordered a Satin White Premium 5-speed!

    Planning on installing a Curt hitch:
    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Onto which I'll mount a Kuat Beta rack:
    Products » Beta | Küat

    My question: If I'm only ever going to carry a 2-bike rack on this hitch is there any reason that I should go with a 2" rack and receiver rather than the 1.25" rack and receiver? I think the 1.25" receiver looks cleaner when the rack is not attached.

    Thanks!
    No need for a 2" period as the car is only meant to tow up to 1500 lbs. Have you thought of going with the factory hitch? It is a very clean fit and you can only see the tip.

  163. #163
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    Tech420: From what I've read, and after reviewing the pdf installation instructions, the factory hitch requires the entire bumper to be removed in order to be installed. It's quite an extensive job that your dealership would need to complete. The Curt hitch is simple 4-bolt installation to the existing frame (that requires slightly enlarging 2 holes with a dremel tool) that even I could do at home. It also looks very clean and low profile in photos that I've seen.

    My question is whether to go with the 2" or 1.25" rack & receiver to carry two XC bikes? Is the 1.25" sufficiently stable enough for the job?

    Thanks!

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Tech420: From what I've read, and after reviewing the pdf installation instructions, the factory hitch requires the entire bumper to be removed in order to be installed. It's quite an extensive job that your dealership would need to complete. The Curt hitch is simple 4-bolt installation to the existing frame (that requires slightly enlarging 2 holes with a dremel tool) that even I could do at home. It also looks very clean and low profile in photos that I've seen.

    My question is whether to go with the 2" or 1.25" rack & receiver to carry two XC bikes? Is the 1.25" sufficiently stable enough for the job?

    Thanks!
    I had the dealer do mine There is no need for a 2" hitch when the car can't tow over 1500lbs. 2 bikes won't cause any type of issue at all. I had a hitch rack with 2 bikes on it for a few days before switching to my roof rack and it was perfectly fine.

  165. #165
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    I guess my experience is different. 1.25" swayed too much for me with one bike on the back. I was using a Thule Apex rack. 2" provided better stability, especially when going over rough roads to get to some of the trailheads. 2" has way more attachment options and doesn't hinder ground clearance. If anything, it would protect your rear bumper from getting torn apart.

    My dealer wanted $700 for the factory rack (1.25"). Uhaul charged $230 out the door. It's recessed about 2" from the end of the bumper so can't even tell it's there.

  166. #166
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    Walked into the dealer today to get an impreza 5 door for my wife. Did not want to order and wait for a crosstrek. Just so happens a crosstrek came in a few hours before and it was not spoken for! Traded her car in for 20% more than carmax offered so we pulled the trigger right away! Dark gray w/ black cloth interior. Will post pics soon.

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Also, a lot of people test the stock radio and think it sounds like crap solely based off the FM radio. It sounds wayyyyy better with BT-a or iPod
    Agree---the FM is cr+p in my new outback. Especially the HD stations as the volume continuously goes down, up or cuts out. At least not that way on regular stations.

    The iPOD does sound good.

  168. #168
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    Curt 2" hitch




  169. #169
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    Nice, just ordered one off amazon, easy install?

  170. #170
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    RideUT: Check out the installation video near the bottom of this page:

    Trailer Hitch by Curt for 2013 XV - C11286

    Trrubicon: That is one sweet looking ride (and I'm not talking about the bike!).

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideut View Post
    Nice, just ordered one off amazon, easy install?

    Only tough part is enlarging the rear holes. I used a stepped drill bit, but you can use a metal file to make notches on each side of the holes. Just enough to allow the rear carriage bolt and plate to go through.

    I would suggest having a second hand or a rolling Jack to lift the hitch up while bolting up.




    Quote Originally Posted by Zirkel View Post
    Trrubicon: That is one sweet looking ride (and I'm not talking about the bike!).
    Thanks! I love it

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    Agree---the FM is cr+p in my new outback. Especially the HD stations as the volume continuously goes down, up or cuts out. At least not that way on regular stations.

    The iPOD does sound good.
    Is it because it is fading in and out of HD?

    Anyways, check this out- this applies to you because you have the display audio system, this may help you:

    ('11+) Impreza Limited "Hidden" Audio Menu - NASIOC

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    What in the hell?

    Engine revs stay up? Doesn't that simply mean it has a heavy flywheel or something? Just let the revs go down before shifting gears?

    The VDC off disables most of the power-robbing properties of the VDC, but it is still active to make sure the car's AWD system is always transferring power efficiently and effectively. (Only the WRX STI, model years 2008 onwards, is the sole Subaru that has the ability to defeat VDC entirely without pulling a fuse)

    In your case, that meant killing the fun of getting the rear-end around. Might wanna look into what fuses may be able to disable the VDC entirely, but I would consult the advice of an expert before attempting that.


    Subaru didn't mess up the drive train...(or did they?) In your case, the VDC just seems too intrusive for you. Maybe a rear LSD may help get the car more spirited once you find a way to disable VDC?
    I've seen a lot of engines do this for emissions. Sorta like, it's trying to burn off the unburned gas in deceleration.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot View Post
    I've seen a lot of engines do this for emissions. Sorta like, it's trying to burn off the unburned gas in deceleration.
    What unburned gas? Injectors shut off when your car is coasting and just using engine compression. Modern engines are very good in this regard, in that they don't put fuel into the cylinders that isn't going to be burned (except during start/warmup, which has other methods to help alleviate this).
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  175. #175
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    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.

  176. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.
    My 09 appears to turn off ... my 02 doesn't have it and is all about power-slides on national forest roads.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I think your car is effed,boudy- I've been in plenty of manual Subarus with the VDC turned off and it does not rob power, and I've been able to rock the car back and forth in the snow. They didn't really screw up the drivetrain, as it's been largely unchanged for about a decade now. I think you should get that looked at.

    One thing- when you tried rocking the car, was the engine still warming up? They intially idle at like 1500 for a while.
    I was thinking something similar. I have a 2013 Impreza and in the snow with vdc off I can do donuts and drifts all day long. Even some powerslides with enough space. The VDC does turn on at extreme angles but doesn't really straighten out the car, its more like its trying to keep the donut in check and prevent a complete spin, at least I think that's what I felt (brakes grabbing on the side going into the slide. Either way it takes some pretty extreme angles to get it to kick in and engine rpm's were not affected at all, in fact it sat happily around 5 or 6k rpm and spun like crazy. I'm not sure if the programming for the Crosstrek is different, but I wouldn't imagine it would differ greatly.

  178. #178
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    Invisible Hitch from Torklift!

    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube
    Nice find. Too bad I just bought a Curt hitch, on the upside it was $100 cheaper.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by summud View Post
    They are making a hitch that utilizes the knock-out on the rear bumper. you can replace the knock out cover when not in use. pretty sweet!

    Torklift Central Eco-Hitch Invisi 2" Subaru XV Crosstrek Trailer Hitch | Torklift Central

    Installation video:

    2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek Invisi/Hidden Ecohitch Trailer Hitch Installation-Torklift Central - YouTube
    OK...here's my question. Where the [email protected]$% do you put the retaining pin at? Get on your hands and knees, or possibly on your back just to insert a pin? Don't get me wrong...its very sweet, but I'd be happy if it stuck out of the hole and allowed me to insert a pin like normal.

  181. #181
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    Ours arrived at the dealership on Thurs. Picking it up this AM!!! Psyched!!!

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    Ours arrived at the dealership on Thurs. Picking it up this AM!!! Psyched!!!
    Congrats it is an awesome car. What model did you get and any extra add-ons? Post up a pic or two.

  183. #183
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    Why not get the 2014 Forester instead?

    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
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  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
    There are a few differences.

    One, the size. Now both are compact vehicles, but the Forester offers more space, and a larger engine. (The XV has the 148HP FB20, the Forester has the 170HP FB25). However, the XV is lighter which means it may be able to handle better than the Forester.

    Both have the same AWD systems. The AWD system you get depends on your transmission choice. (Continuous AWD for manual transmission, Active AWD for CVT Lineartronic).
    If you want a manual transmission, the Forester might be better as it has a 6-speed manual, rather than the XV's old 5-speed manual.

    The XV has an advantage in urban maneuvering over the Forester as it is smaller. If you live in an urban area, the XV would be better for parking. If you don't worry much about size for parking, go for the Forester.

    However, one key advantage the non-turbo Forester may have over the XV is Subaru's newly-developed X-MODE. It's a mode for the VDC, CVT, and other related-systems to work together in harmony for low-traction situations (such as off-roading, snow, etc), in addition to having a hill-descent control.


    Here's a video of a Subaru of America representative elaborating about the new X-MODE

    2014 Subaru Forester: Everything you wanted to know about the car and the new X-Mode AWD - YouTube

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.

    Welcome to my dilemma.
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  186. #186
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    I can't comment on the Forester, but my XV drives more like a car than an SUV. That may turn out to be the biggest difference between the two. One as more of a tall car and the other is a mid-size SUV. If you're in no rush I would wait it out so you can compare the two. You can't go wrong either way.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech420 View Post
    Congrats it is an awesome car. What model did you get and any extra add-ons? Post up a pic or two.
    No pics yet....but Limited loaded - sunroof, Nav, all-weather mats, wheel locals, Homelink, bumper cover. Very nice car!

  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWDfreak View Post
    There are a few differences.

    One, the size. Now both are compact vehicles, but the Forester offers more space, and a larger engine. (The XV has the 148HP FB20, the Forester has the 170HP FB25). However, the XV is lighter which means it may be able to handle better than the Forester.

    Both have the same AWD systems. The AWD system you get depends on your transmission choice. (Continuous AWD for manual transmission, Active AWD for CVT Lineartronic).
    If you want a manual transmission, the Forester might be better as it has a 6-speed manual, rather than the XV's old 5-speed manual.

    The XV has an advantage in urban maneuvering over the Forester as it is smaller. If you live in an urban area, the XV would be better for parking. If you don't worry much about size for parking, go for the Forester.

    However, one key advantage the non-turbo Forester may have over the XV is Subaru's newly-developed X-MODE. It's a mode for the VDC, CVT, and other related-systems to work together in harmony for low-traction situations (such as off-roading, snow, etc), in addition to having a hill-descent control.


    Here's a video of a Subaru of America representative elaborating about the new X-MODE

    2014 Subaru Forester: Everything you wanted to know about the car and the new X-Mode AWD - YouTube
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.
    Yeah, seems Subaru doesn't want to bother with installing the viscous limited-slip differentials anymore.. I also wish we could get the low-range manual gearboxes too...

  190. #190
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    The times, they are a'changin'. I would prefer mechanical diffs, but the electronic aids are advancing in such a way that it is simply cheaper to have the electronics take over. At least I assume this is the case when I saw the rear LSD's disappearing from Outbacks and such around '09 when VDC was standardized on all models.

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Bringer View Post
    X-MODE, previously known as viscous differentials, low range and driver skill. All no longer required.
    Yup, keep dumbing down the driver. Can't let driving the car interfere with an all important phone call or text message.

    Just wait until all of this electronic ******** starts showing up on bicycles (ABS, traction control, ...).
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  192. #192
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    Seems like the Crosstrek will drive more like a Forester than an Impreza anyway because of the increased ride height? I still don't like the loss of HP and engine displacement. Our 09 Impreza blows the doors off our Forester since it's lighter and still has 170 HP; handling is better too with way less body lean. Are all the new model going to be made in the USA?

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I was pretty interested in getting a Crosstrek to replace my 1997 Honda Fit. The Crosstrek only gets 2-3 miles less per gallon than the Fit. I was nearly sold on the Crosstrek until I started looking at the 2014 Forester. The Forester starts at nearly the same price as a Crosstrek, and gets almost as good mpg (24/32 vs 25/33.) They have alot more space inside for passengers and cargo. The Forester has the same ground clearance as the Crosstrek.

    So what does the Crosstrek have going for it over the Forester? Is it style? Do you think the Crosstrek will offer a better driving experience than a 2.0 Forester? Do they use the same type AWD system, or is the Crosstrek better in dicey conditions?

    I'm not trolling, I really want to hear what people think when comparing the Crosstrek to a 2014 Forester? The upper end Foresters get expensive, but the base ($23,800) and premium ($25,800) 2.0 Foresters with CVT are the same price as the premium and limited Crosstrek.
    This is a similar situation I was in a few months ago choosing between the Forester and Outback. Outback had much bigger rear storage and fit our family better. MPG was nearly identical (Outback was actually better at 30MPG), so looking at it from that standpoint, it didn't make sense to go with the Forester. From a financial perspective, the Outback was $2-3k more, but we felt it was worth it.

    Between the Crosstrek and Forester, I think it highly depends on your situation. Do you need the extra room? Do you have kids/family? If not, I'd pick the Crosstrek. Cheaper, lighter/nimble, and (IMO) cooler looking. But if you need the room (now or in the near future), the Forester is the better choice. I really like the headroom and the front driver's and passenger room feels bigger due to the higher roof (like vaulted ceilings). Heavier than Crosstrek, yes, but that also has advantages. It rides better on-road due to the extra heft, which helps on longer trips. Granted I haven't driven the Crosstrek, but if it's anything like my sister's Impreza, it does have the small car feel to it and longer road trips did take more of a toll on the body.

    Size wise, I really can't see a scenario where the Crosstrek would fit and Forester wouldn't. Even in an urban setting. I don't think this would be an issue either way.

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Seems like the Crosstrek will drive more like a Forester than an Impreza anyway because of the increased ride height? I still don't like the loss of HP and engine displacement. Our 09 Impreza blows the doors off our Forester since it's lighter and still has 170 HP; handling is better too with way less body lean. Are all the new model going to be made in the USA?
    I promise you that the XV is almost imperceptibly different from the normal Impreza in driving- I was shocked at how little body roll there is. The main difference is the feel of the tires, as the XV is on 17" Geolandars like the Foresters. But seriously, it handles way more like an Impreza than a Forester.

  195. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    I promise you that the XV is almost imperceptibly different from the normal Impreza in driving- I was shocked at how little body roll there is. The main difference is the feel of the tires, as the XV is on 17" Geolandars like the Foresters. But seriously, it handles way more like an Impreza than a Forester.
    That's good to here, how about the power loss over the older units?

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    That's good to here, how about the power loss over the older units?
    Absolutely blown out of proportion! People were just looking at the drop of HP from 170 to 148, yet for some reason nobody mentions that the new car is actually slightly faster than the 08-11 Imprezas, or that the 12+ weigh like 150-180 lbs less than the 08-11. It's stupid, every time I see someone whine about that on the internet I bang my head on the desk.

    Now, yeah, it would have been sweet if they kept the 170 hp on the 12+ cars with the less weight and such, but they wanted fuel economy, so to increase fuel economy by a full 30% while not making the car slower is quite a nice balance, methinks.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    Absolutely blown out of proportion! People were just looking at the drop of HP from 170 to 148, yet for some reason nobody mentions that the new car is actually slightly faster than the 08-11 Imprezas, or that the 12+ weigh like 150-180 lbs less than the 08-11. It's stupid, every time I see someone whine about that on the internet I bang my head on the desk.

    Now, yeah, it would have been sweet if they kept the 170 hp on the 12+ cars with the less weight and such, but they wanted fuel economy, so to increase fuel economy by a full 30% while not making the car slower is quite a nice balance, methinks.
    That's nice to hear, I haven't driven one and wanted to know. I have two growing boys, so it'll be Outback next time anyway for us. I like my 09 and 02 for the time being and will drive them until they blow. We average 28 mpg on the 09 Impreza, no way the new ones have an extra 30 percent on that as it would be 36 overall.

  198. #198
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    ^ For the normal Impreza, the highway on the automatic went from 27 to 36. Most people get like 38ish at 70mph.

    City driving went from 20 on the 08-11 to 27 on the 12+. I haven't really paid attention to what people typically get in pure city driving, as usually the people worried about fuel economy drive mostly highway.

    For you to be getting an average of 28 on your 09 is really good- do you do mostly highway/backroads?

    In any event, going from 27 to 36 is a 30% increase, without even factoring in that the highway average on the 2012+ are rather underrated. And that is awesome.

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by XJaredX View Post
    ^ For the normal Impreza, the highway on the automatic went from 27 to 36. Most people get like 38ish at 70mph.

    City driving went from 20 on the 08-11 to 27 on the 12+. I haven't really paid attention to what people typically get in pure city driving, as usually the people worried about fuel economy drive mostly highway.

    For you to be getting an average of 28 on your 09 is really good- do you do mostly highway/backroads?

    In any event, going from 27 to 36 is a 30% increase, without even factoring in that the highway average on the 2012+ are rather underrated. And that is awesome.
    I never learned how to drive an automatic. We get 28 with a 50/50 mix of driving. Our 02 Forrester is much worse.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I never learned how to drive an automatic. We get 28 with a 50/50 mix of driving. Our 02 Forrester is much worse.
    Just as a reference point of how much more efficient these new cars are, we're getting 27MPG on our bloated Outback, mixed driving. Highway-only returns 33MPG. We get slightly better MPG's than lowlander folks (I'm at 4500 ft elev) due to leaner burning engines and less air resistence.

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