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  1. #1
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    Rivian news and forum

    Good resource here: https://www.rivianownersforum.com/th...-packages.828/

    Anyone interested in the truck or SUV?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rivian news and forum-rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-camper-hero-e1559982516400.jpg  

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    Looks pretty good in "Long way up" documentary.

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    Cool trucks. If you haven’t yet you should check out “The Long Way Up” on apple tv+ with Ewan McGregor. They have a few prototypes they drive up from the tip of south america.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Looks pretty good in "Long way up" documentary.

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    Hah - on the same wavelength


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    Quote Originally Posted by bk_mtb View Post
    Cool trucks. If you haven’t yet you should check out “The Long Way Up” on apple tv+ with Ewan McGregor. They have a few prototypes they drive up from the tip of south america.


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    EV trucks are viable. EV motorcycles seems to have a bit more to go.
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    I think I'd rather have a Ford F150 hybrid at this point. When Rivian irons everything out then maybe, but only maybe.

    What's the equivalent of gas cans for an electric truck?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sa12 View Post
    I think I'd rather have a Ford F150 hybrid at this point. When Rivian irons everything out then maybe, but only maybe.

    What's the equivalent of gas cans for an electric truck?
    Rivian news and forum-dscf2297.jpg

    If it's anything like a Tesla. You will pay twice as much for equivalent traditional vehicle range.

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    The Rivian truck will retail at $75k before tax incentives, and will do over 300 rated miles. Per Rivian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 121GW View Post
    If it's anything like a Tesla. You will pay twice as much for equivalent traditional vehicle range.
    Drove SF - LA for roughly $40... we talking about the same Tesla?

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    2x traditional vehicle cost for traditional vehicle range.

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    Big fan of the gear tunnel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 121GW View Post
    2x traditional vehicle cost for traditional vehicle range.
    How many trucks under $40k go 0-60 in 3 sec?

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    My 60th bday present on hold

    I put the deposit in a year ago with hopes of December 2020 delivery of the fully loaded RT1 truck.
    Then Covid extended release to summer 2021. Then Rivian announced yesterday the configurator will be available on Monday the 16th. Come to find out the fully loaded 400+ mile range option won't be available until 2022. Price is also unknown for the extended range ($85K+?).
    Starting to think it's better waiting a few years for 2nd generation.
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    Cool ideas in this truck, but seriously, you guys like the look of the two vertical lights against the horizontal front grille?

    I mean, yeah, that looks different, but is it really nice aesthetically? May be just not my cup of tea for this much money.

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    The front and rear lights do look odd. The unknown price tag for the extended mileage option is also a worry. But not enough to outweigh 0-60 in 3, 750 HP, 10K+ torque, 11k towing, AWD, and 14" clearance. The 400+ mile version is the kicker. This would be the 5th EV I've owned (or leased).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loll View Post
    Cool ideas in this truck, but seriously, you guys like the look of the two vertical lights against the horizontal front grille?

    I mean, yeah, that looks different, but is it really nice aesthetically? May be just not my cup of tea for this much money.
    It's designed to look unique so that you recognize it when it drives by. The early-adopter types probably care a lot more about the technology than they do the appearance.

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    Tiny bed size and the bait-and-switch on the extended range made me decide to wait a year or two to see what plays out with Rivian. If anything, you'd think they'd want to offer the extended range first to have something differentiating.

    Personally I would have preferred to see Rivian make its technology investments in improving range versus 0-60 time. I would also like to see some type of innovative bed extender so that I can haul a couple dirt bikes without the rear wheels hanging out. That bed is just stupid small. And with a little creativity they could have allowed it to handle a 4 ft wide piece of sheet goods flat in the back. Hell, my Ridgeline can do that.

    I loved the concept of the R1T, but I think it is prudent to wait for V2.0 or V3.0.

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    I don't care that much about looks, I care about features. The tiny bed size of the Rivian relegates it to "not a truck" category for my purposes. Somewhere in their propoganda they mention something about surfing. At their pricing, most of their target demographic ride longboards (9'+). I do like the gear tunnel. For my purposes, the Cyber Truck is much more promising.

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    For range, rumor is that tri motor CT will do 560 miles

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradmtb View Post
    The front and rear lights do look odd. The unknown price tag for the extended mileage option is also a worry. But not enough to outweigh 0-60 in 3, 750 HP, 10K+ torque, 11k towing, AWD, and 14" clearance. The 400+ mile version is the kicker. This would be the 5th EV I've owned (or leased).

    I am curious to find out what happens to range when towing up to 11k lbs.....

    After watching long way up I am super impressed with these trucks. I am not anywhere near the budget needed to buy one, but they are super cool.
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  21. #21
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    I really want to be able to buy an electric truck. But a couple things I want to be able to do beforehand. I bought a 2019 Ranger XLT earlier this year with a good set of discounts/deals, which will hold me over for a bit, at least.

    On the highway, I get around 425-450-ish miles on a tank. When I'm towing my teardrop camper, that dips into the 350-400 range. I'm okay with that. My truck has 7500lb towing capacity, but folks towing campers that push that weight limit often wind up around 9mpg, and I'm not willing to tolerate the range associated with that. It seems that folks pulling heavy, denser loads (that don't present a big profile to the wind) are doing better on gas.

    Still, you can definitely put me into the camp that wants equivalent range in an EV. Better would be nice. So yeah, I don't really care about blisteringly fast acceleration or towing capacity in the fullsize truck range. I like having a truck that's a little smaller. Makes it easier to park in the city. Also makes it easier to handle when I'm off pavement. I've used my truck a couple times for trailwork lately, and have driven a good bit down gated USFS access roads where the brush is tight. A bigger truck means more redneck pinstripes.

    I'd also really appreciate the ability to charge via solar. My teardrop has a small solar panel for off-grid use (I need a bigger one so I can go longer). Would be nice if a manufacturer made it reasonably easy to mount one onto a roof rack and gave you somewhere to plug it in without much fuss. Even if it doesn't charge nearly as fast as plugging it into a fast charger. Any gas/diesel vehicle can extend its range by carrying extra gas cans, so a similar concept that could work for EV's would rank highly for me (maybe extra battery packs you could charge off of solar to top up the main battery? I dunno....EV's need SOMETHING).

    The stock rated acceleration on my Ranger is 0-60 in 6.1 sec, and folks are doing a good bit faster at the drag strip with JUST a tune. I definitely don't need anything faster. For one, being that heavy on the accelerator absolutely kills range.

    So yeah, more range, better off-grid capability (or even just rural driving...places that don't have EV charging infrastructure), less focus on big towing and fast acceleration.

    I'm excited to see electric pickups hit the market, but I'm going to wait a generation or two until my priorities are more available, or are at least less expensive.

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    Re the solar charger, it is unlikely to do much. For reference, got 26 panels on my roof and I produce 40KWh in one summer day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Re the solar charger, it is unlikely to do much. For reference, got 26 panels on my roof and I produce 40KWh in one summer day.

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    If anything, I expect it could boost range by a touch if we're talking about panels that are permanently mounted and constantly feeding a trickle into the vehicle's battery.

    I expect it to be a bit more useful if you're doing something like camping, where you might park for a few days while you're in camp. Something like that would stand to supply a bit more noticeable juice into the battery.

    But I recognize that solar alone isn't likely to be entirely sufficient. At least not right now. But an EV advertised to pull a camper, get people into the "great outdoors" and whatnot needs some kind of solution that doesn't double the cost of the vehicle.

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    Tesla Cybertruck is supposed to get a solar panel option as a tonneau cover. May add up to 15 miles a day, or basically keep the battery from discharging while parked.

    There was article that reviewed Rivian pick up truck offroading and the range drops really quickly when driving on dirt, just like in a gas car. I don't think EV trucks will be great at towing heavy loads long distance, but will be great for local contractors and weekend warrior.

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    Make it a van and I'm all in.
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    I want it to be awesome but have my doubts when one of it's top features is -


    • Perforated vegan leather seating with patterned stitching


    I even prefer fake leather, but that wording as a top feature seems contrived and makes me less confident in the the things they don't list.

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    If I am buying a truck, the number one question I ask is "Can I tow a loaded horse trailer from home to the mountains and back?"

    If I can't do that, then it is a non starter. I am looking at a minimum of 150 mile range with 8000' of climbing, and a headwind on the return trip. No access to a charger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidewalk View Post
    If I am buying a truck, the number one question I ask is "Can I tow a loaded horse trailer from home to the mountains and back?"

    If I can't do that, then it is a non starter. I am looking at a minimum of 150 mile range with 8000' of climbing, and a headwind on the return trip. No access to a charger.
    You're definitely not buying one then.

    Rule of thumb: each 1000' of climbing eats an additional 10 miles of range climbing, though you'll get some of that back coming down. Headwind some more. And a horse trailer is bound to cost your another 20% plus range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    You're definitely not buying one then.

    Rule of thumb: each 1000' of climbing eats an additional 10 miles of range climbing, though you'll get some of that back coming down. Headwind some more. And a horse trailer is bound to cost your another 20% plus range.
    THings will improve to that point someday, just not yet.

    Or, my horse will go lame someday (he is 20ish) and I won't feel the need to tow anymore

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    Where's all the power come from in the US? Nuclear, Coal, Hydro?

    I figure electric is kind of moot until most of the power is available from renewables. I'd love one for my job, but can't see myself draping an extension cord into four different motel rooms in a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    Where's all the power come from in the US? Nuclear, Coal, Hydro?
    Part of the pros of electric. Electric are more energy efficient. More of the battery power is going towards propulsion vs conventional ICE where a large amount of energy goes out the pipe as heat and noise. Central powerplants, even dirty ones, are more efficient and converting fuel into useful energy. And as time passes the electric vehicle gets cleaner by virtue of more efficient and/or cleaner power sources.

    Still a long way to go, but incremental improvements.

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    I know that's an argument with hydrogen, we are lucky here in that we have a lot of hydro. But hydrogen cars in theory are less efficient than electric cars.
    IE Hydro power, create hydrogen, move it, store it, fill your car, burn it. Vs Hydro power, straight to your home into your car.

    How similar is that for petrol vs electric if you burn coal to create the electricity to power the car versus oil extraction, refinement etc etc.

    As I said, my issue is range and the fact I travel for work. If I had a desk job I'd certainly be looking at electric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    Where's all the power come from in the US? Nuclear, Coal, Hydro?

    I figure electric is kind of moot until most of the power is available from renewables. I'd love one for my job, but can't see myself draping an extension cord into four different motel rooms in a week.
    The answer is: it depends. In CA, we're at a third from renewables and growing. Countrywide, the grid is getting cleaner every year. The best part though is that EVs are 2 to 3x more efficient than the equivalent gas car (your average Tesla gets 100 to 120mpg equivalent rating).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    As I said, my issue is range and the fact I travel for work. If I had a desk job I'd certainly be looking at electric.
    Kinda preaching to the choir here on that one. I need the range with towing. I bike commute so I don't need electric for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    The Rivian truck will retail at $75k before tax incentives, and will do over 300 rated miles. Per Rivian.

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    That’s a no go for me. I own a truck to haul bikes a long way. First leg of my drive tomorrow will be 540 miles with a whole lot of nothing in between here and Roswell.


    For all of the around town trucks, these will be huge in Texas.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    If anything, I expect it could boost range by a touch if we're talking about panels that are permanently mounted and constantly feeding a trickle into the vehicle's battery.

    I expect it to be a bit more useful if you're doing something like camping, where you might park for a few days while you're in camp. Something like that would stand to supply a bit more noticeable juice into the battery.

    But I recognize that solar alone isn't likely to be entirely sufficient. At least not right now. But an EV advertised to pull a camper, get people into the "great outdoors" and whatnot needs some kind of solution that doesn't double the cost of the vehicle.
    A so late trifold bed panel could be neat.

    Pull your camper and generator. I wonder how much fuel in the generator it would take to charge the electric truck.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Pull your camper and generator. I wonder how much fuel in the generator it would take to charge the electric truck.
    This is so hilariously insane that I bet someone will try it. This is America, after all, and I'm sure there's some YouTuber that already has their trip across the USA all lined up, they're just waiting on the truck to arrive.

    Or, perhaps people will just start booking RV spots w/ hook-ups so they can charge their car/truck. That should go over well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RickBullottaPA View Post
    Tiny bed size and ...

    Personally I would have preferred to see Rivian make its technology investments in improving range versus 0-60 time.... I would also like to see some type of innovative bed extender so that I can haul a couple dirt bikes without the rear wheels hanging out...
    This. I don't get all this talk of 0-60 or 0-100 or top speed that I see when discussing the Rivian.

    It's a pick up. For me it should 1) haul stuff, 2) get me out of bad trail jams, and 3) pull stuff. Sure, it should have some get up and go and a decent top speed (maybe 120mph), but what it really needs is a big bed, some low end torque, 4x4 (or AWD), and enough towing capacity to pull a decent sized boat or camper.

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    What some of our needs and desires from a truck just isn't what MOST buyers care about. Look at how many people drive F150 Raptors and NEVER use them for more than commuting. At least in my area.

    I want a truck. Most people want a penis extension.

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    I like the websites title, Rivian Owner Forum. From what I read, no one owns one as of yet. The launch is scheduled for 2022 and anything can happen between now and then.

    As for the design, I think it looks a lot better than the Tesla truck. Most buy a truck for the looks more so than the capacities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I really want to be able to buy an electric truck. But a couple things I want to be able to do beforehand. I bought a 2019 Ranger XLT earlier this year with a good set of discounts/deals, which will hold me over for a bit, at least.

    On the highway, I get around 425-450-ish miles on a tank. When I'm towing my teardrop camper, that dips into the 350-400 range. I'm okay with that. My truck has 7500lb towing capacity, but folks towing campers that push that weight limit often wind up around 9mpg, and I'm not willing to tolerate the range associated with that. It seems that folks pulling heavy, denser loads (that don't present a big profile to the wind) are doing better on gas.

    Still, you can definitely put me into the camp that wants equivalent range in an EV. Better would be nice. So yeah, I don't really care about blisteringly fast acceleration or towing capacity in the fullsize truck range. I like having a truck that's a little smaller. Makes it easier to park in the city. Also makes it easier to handle when I'm off pavement. I've used my truck a couple times for trailwork lately, and have driven a good bit down gated USFS access roads where the brush is tight. A bigger truck means more redneck pinstripes.

    I'd also really appreciate the ability to charge via solar. My teardrop has a small solar panel for off-grid use (I need a bigger one so I can go longer). Would be nice if a manufacturer made it reasonably easy to mount one onto a roof rack and gave you somewhere to plug it in without much fuss. Even if it doesn't charge nearly as fast as plugging it into a fast charger. Any gas/diesel vehicle can extend its range by carrying extra gas cans, so a similar concept that could work for EV's would rank highly for me (maybe extra battery packs you could charge off of solar to top up the main battery? I dunno....EV's need SOMETHING).

    The stock rated acceleration on my Ranger is 0-60 in 6.1 sec, and folks are doing a good bit faster at the drag strip with JUST a tune. I definitely don't need anything faster. For one, being that heavy on the accelerator absolutely kills range.

    So yeah, more range, better off-grid capability (or even just rural driving...places that don't have EV charging infrastructure), less focus on big towing and fast acceleration.

    I'm excited to see electric pickups hit the market, but I'm going to wait a generation or two until my priorities are more available, or are at least less expensive.
    My needs are similar. I think for people that want to haul a small camper long distances to remote areas, range is a genuine concern. For me, for the time being, a plug-in hybrid would seem a better bet. And I definitely agree that something more the size of your Ranger (and my GMC Canyon) with less extreme capabilities would be far more useful. I'm determined to get 10 years out of my Canyon. It's a great little truck and I'm happy with it for the most part. So in 4 years, 5 weeks, I'll be lookin'!

    ...as an aside, speaking of hybrids, Toyota is redoing their minivan for 2021 as a hybrid ONLY. 35ish mpg, city and hwy. AND rated to tow 3,500 pounds, same as the current 6 cylinder version. I need more cargo and less people hauling capacity but this is definitely a step in the right direction. I don't think there's anyone doing hybrid tech better than Toyota right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    or me, for the time being, a plug-in hybrid would seem a better bet.
    I would tend to agree with this. Given long drives and remote destinations, the ability to gas up (and to carry extra gas in containers) is kindof a big deal because there really isn't a truly viable solution to this for an EV right now. I know what I want, but I also know that it's not really available right now.

    At this point, I'd be more likely to have an EV as a daily driver, but a gasser for the long trips and remote destinations. Would be nice to have a pickup truck with the sort of system that could handle both. Engine kicks on to charge the electrical system when battery voltage drops below a certain level (my Ranger already does this when I stop at intersections).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I would tend to agree with this. Given long drives and remote destinations, the ability to gas up (and to carry extra gas in containers) is kindof a big deal because there really isn't a truly viable solution to this for an EV right now. I know what I want, but I also know that it's not really available right now.

    At this point, I'd be more likely to have an EV as a daily driver, but a gasser for the long trips and remote destinations. Would be nice to have a pickup truck with the sort of system that could handle both. Engine kicks on to charge the electrical system when battery voltage drops below a certain level (my Ranger already does this when I stop at intersections).
    Have you seen this? https://www.teslarati.com/ford-fight...gas-generator/

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I haven't, but it's very interesting. will be curious if the truck will be designed to operate primarily on the battery without the generator (and what the range on the battery alone will be), and how effective the generator will actually be (how fast to charge the battery, or how much extra range it can be expected to add).

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    Where's all the power come from in the US? Nuclear, Coal, Hydro?

    I figure electric is kind of moot until most of the power is available from renewables. I'd love one for my job, but can't see myself draping an extension cord into four different motel rooms in a week.

    With fast charging stations and many hotels now offering parking spots of EV's that have charging you would not be doing that.

    At this point in time you would need to be more diligent about planning your route and stops, but you can do it. The infrastructure is growing and will only get better as time goes by.

    A guy i work with has 2 EV's, one for him and one for his wife. they no longer have a ICE powered vehicle. He can pretty much always charge at home for weekly commuting needs, but he can also park in an EV spot here and plug it in. There is a cost to fill up at work, the charging station is run by a third party, and he gets notified on an app what the cost per Kw is and if that price changes he can turn off the charging remotely, or it tell him when it is full, etc.

    So, for your job, if you stop for a lunch break, you could plan to stop where a charging station is. Plug the car in and go sit down and have some food. Or if there is a charging station at the hotel, plug it in for the night and it will be charged up before morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    The answer is: it depends. In CA, we're at a third from renewables and growing. Countrywide, the grid is getting cleaner every year. The best part though is that EVs are 2 to 3x more efficient than the equivalent gas car (your average Tesla gets 100 to 120mpg equivalent rating).
    I installed Solar on my home in December 2015. I just did the path in my portal and I have generated 33,996.8KwH since that system was installed. getting into the 700 - 740KwH /month during peak summer, July/August (due to the coastal eddies I don't get the most sun in May/June even though those are the longest months of sunlight.

    When we do the annual reconciliation true-up in December each year we find that we use just a bit more electricity than we generate.



    This is a screen grab from my portal.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rivian news and forum-solor-system.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by sa12 View Post
    This is so hilariously insane that I bet someone will try it. This is America, after all, and I'm sure there's some YouTuber that already has their trip across the USA all lined up, they're just waiting on the truck to arrive.

    Or, perhaps people will just start booking RV spots w/ hook-ups so they can charge their car/truck. That should go over well...
    The only reason to have a generator to charge up the truck batteries is if you are off the grid, like camping in a remote place.

    There are tons of Charging stations around the US and that infrastructure is growing.

    I don't think an RV park would care if you paid for the spot to charge your truck, but that is way more expensive then filling up at a charging station.
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    Most of the people in this discussion aren't the target audience for Rivian. This isn't about you. It's for the dude who wants a luxury 4 door truck and doesn't go more than a couple of hundred miles at a time and never hauls his own lumber!
    This is evolving technology. Drivetrains getting better, batteries getting better, charging tech speeding up, charging network improving. Current ICE plateaued a long time ago. Electric vehicles will be the best solution for most of the population. These might not be for you, but they will be for most people eventually.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    I haven't, but it's very interesting. will be curious if the truck will be designed to operate primarily on the battery without the generator (and what the range on the battery alone will be), and how effective the generator will actually be (how fast to charge the battery, or how much extra range it can be expected to add).
    I got the impression that the onboard generator isn't connected to the drivetrain at all. It's basically an electric vehicle with an onboard charger/generator. I'd hope that it would seamlessly kick in to top off the batteries on the road when needed and give you that extra range, not much point to it otherwise. But it's not even a prototype yet-who knows when or if it will ever be a product.

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    Good job!

    One of my close buddies works for Rivian (Bloomington, IL) and has been raving about their truck for the last couple years. He sends me their latest via YouTube videos. If you're curious about the truck, go to YouTube and search for Rivian.

    A Rivian is on my short list for my next vehicle.

    Edited to add: I shared this post with my buddy. A few notes:

    1. Launch date is June 2021, not 2022.
    2. The electric motors have regenerative braking which puts the charge back in the battery.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Most of the people in this discussion aren't the target audience for Rivian. This isn't about you. It's for the dude who wants a luxury 4 door truck and doesn't go more than a couple of hundred miles at a time and never hauls his own lumber!
    This is evolving technology. Drivetrains getting better, batteries getting better, charging tech speeding up, charging network improving. Current ICE plateaued a long time ago. Electric vehicles will be the best solution for most of the population. These might not be for you, but they will be for most people eventually.
    I disagree somewhat. We've been a 2 EV family for the last couple years. We can go anywhere we used to go in our ICE car. We did a 1000 miles roadtrip around Norcal a couple years ago and basically supercharged our way around, except for one night at a hotel in Redding where we used the level 2 charger. So, is it as convenient for long trips as filling up at a gas station? No, but between our phones and the games in the Tesla, it wasn't that big a deal.

    The fast charging infrastructure is getting better every day (especially in Cali where probably a large portion of those trucks will be sold), and one would be able to take those trucks to most places. Where it becomes hard is if you tow something heavy long distance in a part of the country with no fast charging infrastructure. But doing a roadtrip in a Rivian EV should be doable in most places with a little bit of planning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    I got the impression that the onboard generator isn't connected to the drivetrain at all. It's basically an electric vehicle with an onboard charger/generator. I'd hope that it would seamlessly kick in to top off the batteries on the road when needed and give you that extra range, not much point to it otherwise. But it's not even a prototype yet-who knows when or if it will ever be a product.
    Looks like the concept offers 2 connection possibilities. One to just keep the battery topped and/or charge the vehicle when stopped. And the other to supply power directly into the system. I'm no electrician, so I'm not entirely certain what effect that would have. Would that make the truck function effectively like a diesel-electric locomotive, with the battery held in reserve?

    I dunno.

    Where I live, there are EV charging stations practically everywhere in town. Grocery stores, the mall, streetside parking, municipal parking garages. Even some fast food places have them. Quite a lot of EV's around town. Mostly Teslas, I'd say, but also plenty of Nissan Leafs, too. I'm sure I'll be seeing electric trucks here soon after they hit the market.

    It starts getting iffy once you leave town. I've seen Teslas down some gravel roads deep into the woods. Certainly not too far from the charging stations I know in town. But it's just not the kind of road I'd want to be driving a low-to-the-ground luxury car on. I definitely beat on the suspension on my previous car on roads like that, and needed to replace parts I wore out a lot earlier than I expected. It's one reason I replaced it with a truck. A truck/suv with a 300-450mi range opens up a lot of possibilities, without needing to charge anywhere but at home.

    Taking a road trip to visit family would be weird, for sure. Doable, but I'd have to do my research on charging stations. I'm totally on board with the charge-while-eating method. As it is, I tend to avoid fast food, and prefer slower restaurants where I get a chance to spend time out of the vehicle. So that usually means 30-60min per food stop easy. Add in a few shorter restroom breaks and there you have it.

    My biggest concern WRT charging is with the mtb/camping trips where I'm purposely avoiding places with hookups. Primitive/boondock camping for a few days or more, and then maybe a couple days driving the bikes to different trailheads. Way out in the boonies. No EV infrastructure out in many of these places yet, so the old rural gas stations I might use with a gas engine wouldn't be helpful.

    Better infrastructure will help, for sure. How long before EV charging stations start showing up in some of these rural places, though? That's why I look at range as an important stat to start with, and why I'd want to have the capability to do something to improve that range when I'm off grid. I don't overland, but could see potentially trying something like that out. The truck I have now is certainly capable of it. If I know I'm going to be spending several days on gravel roads somewhere, I can just add some extra gas cans to extend my range. Cheap and easy. That becomes a legit problem if your truck/suv is an EV.

    With a lot of these EV trucks getting marketed towards the adventure crowd, you know the desire will be there for people to do this kind of experimentation. And maybe people who buy these things and and who work to figure out how to overland with them will figure out some clever solutions. Aussies have a lot of clever overlanding products out there. Maybe they'll figure it out. I know I'm not equipped to do the figuring out, so I'll be waiting for someone else to find solutions.

    The concept of the extra generator for the F-150 could fill that gap for now. Of course, the F-150 is a bit big for overlanding in many places. But maybe the generator is there to increase towing range. That's definitely another limitation for an EV truck. Halving range for a gas/diesel while towing near the vehicle's limit isn't unusual. If your EV truck has a 300mi range when unloaded, a 150mi range while towing would probably be untenable.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    I disagree somewhat. We've been a 2 EV family for the last couple years. We can go anywhere we used to go in our ICE car. We did a 1000 miles roadtrip around Norcal a couple years ago and basically supercharged our way around, except for one night at a hotel in Redding where we used the level 2 charger. So, is it as convenient for long trips as filling up at a gas station? No, but between our phones and the games in the Tesla, it wasn't that big a deal.

    The fast charging infrastructure is getting better every day (especially in Cali where probably a large portion of those trucks will be sold), and one would be able to take those trucks to most places. Where it becomes hard is if you tow something heavy long distance in a part of the country with no fast charging infrastructure. But doing a roadtrip in a Rivian EV should be doable in most places with a little bit of planning.
    You're an early adopter who has a couple of cars. I was talking about the truck owners on here expressing that this can't haul what they currently haul in an F-250 across mountains with sheets of 8x4 and dirt bikes PLUS a trailer!
    The Rivian knows the market they are aiming for. It's closer to the 2xEV market than it is the diesel 250 market - but technology marches on, adoption improves, charging will be ubiquitous outside CA.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    You're an early adopter who has a couple of cars. I was talking about the truck owners on here expressing that this can't haul what they currently haul in an F-250 across mountains with sheets of 8x4 and dirt bikes PLUS a trailer!
    The Rivian knows the market they are aiming for. It's closer to the 2xEV market than it is the diesel 250 market - but technology marches on, adoption improves, charging will be ubiquitous outside CA.
    I am curious to see when this will really take off with the contractor crowd. Sure, some do need to drive and load long distances. But when I drove a service van doing HVAC I rarely drove over 100 miles a day. Half the fleet could have been E vans that got charged up every night at home. They would save money just on the lack of gas stops, let alone fuel savings. Sadly, they would probably pressure their employees to charge up on their own tab.

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    The term fit for purpose applies here. Contractors would probably not be looking at an EV truck. The Rivian is an EV vehicle chasing consumer market styling cues on par with the Honda Ridgeline. I have not seen any Ridgelines with contractor signs on the side. As with most pickup trucks sold today, they are not used for their utility capabilities. It's the macho look that sells.

    Most pickup trucks sold today have boxes shorter than the traditional 8 foot box so the cargo capacity is not the important part for most sales.

    If the Rivian is launched, the buyers are not really looking for the utility of a pickup truck so much as the design. And I say if because there are so many startups that fail because the goal is not to start and run a new company so much as to introduce concepts and desperately trying to find a large company for a buyout.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooTallUK View Post
    Current ICE plateaued a long time ago.
    While we are almost to peak ICE, I don't agree that is has plateaued just yet. in just that last few years vehicles that only had big V8's now have 4 and 6 cylinder motors that can do the same sort of work as the old V8's did.

    The pushes to make the fleets for sale more fuel efficient did more to advance ICE technology in the last decade than was done with them the 3 to 4 decades before that.


    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    One of my close buddies works for Rivian (Bloomington, IL) and has been raving about their truck for the last couple years. He sends me their latest via YouTube videos. If you're curious about the truck, go to YouTube and search for Rivian.

    A Rivian is on my short list for my next vehicle.

    Edited to add: I shared this post with my buddy. A few notes:

    1. Launch date is June 2021, not 2022.
    2. The electric motors have regenerative braking which puts the charge back in the battery.
    3. You can also tow-charge them - something I saw done on Long Way Up. That was pretty dang cool for when they were in the middle of no-where. Maybe not a very common way to do it, but it was cool to see.
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  57. #57
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    They're doing something right. Initial batch is sold out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    They're doing something right. Initial batch is sold out.

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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimglassford View Post
    So were the Tuckers. How did that end?
    Have you compared the financial backing of Tucker and Rivian? Not that there is any guarantee that Rivian will succeed, but they have strong financial backing and some really cool products. I wish them well.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimglassford View Post
    So were the Tuckers. How did that end?

    wow, that is a horrible comparison.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    While we are almost to peak ICE, I don't agree that is has plateaued just yet. in just that last few years vehicles that only had big V8's now have 4 and 6 cylinder motors that can do the same sort of work as the old V8's did.
    That's mainly an emissions thing though isn't it? Honda are almost down to two engines now 1.5L turbo and a 2.0L turbo (I know there are a couple more). Even the supercars are mostly turbo now. I assume there are less emissions at 6000rpm then there are at 8000.

    The big V8s were never terribly efficient though were they? Japan set the benchmark at 100bhp per litre in the late eighties an aside from bikes, it's really settled around that.

    But a bit off topic sorry!

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard View Post
    That's mainly an emissions thing though isn't it? Honda are almost down to two engines now 1.5L turbo and a 2.0L turbo (I know there are a couple more). Even the supercars are mostly turbo now. I assume there are less emissions at 6000rpm then there are at 8000.

    The big V8s were never terribly efficient though were they? Japan set the benchmark at 100bhp per litre in the late eighties an aside from bikes, it's really settled around that.

    But a bit off topic sorry!

    Emissions and Power.

    The V8 in my 2012 Suburban can run on 4 cylinders when not under load, and the latest models can drop down to 2.

    Chevy now offers a Turbo inline 6 for the Silverado and this summer the Tahoe/Suburban models will get it too, lots of power in a small fuel efficient package.

    Both those motors are very new.

    My comment is that ICE technology has not grown by leaps n bounds in the last few years, but it is still improving, it has not peaked yet.

    We probably have much further to go with EV's in reaching any sort of Peak, but we really don't know yet. The growth for the EV market is going to be in Battery capacity, size and weight. Eletric motors are very close to peak technology and have been around as long as Internal Combustion motors have, just in different applications.
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    To discuss ICE, we have to look at them as a powertrain just like the EVs. What makes the smaller turbo charged engines possible are the number of gears in transmissions. Back in the day when the V-8s and V-10s were growing in size, the transmission was considered a 3 speed automatic with over drive. The big displacement offered low RPM torque to get the vehicle moving, especially when pulling a trailer. Now with a 10 speed transmission, you hit red line in the first few gears getting the load moving. This was the same as the semi trucks with the 4+3 transmissions. New technologies are pushing the bounds of the ICE into impressive power and fuel efficiency. Direct injection is the next frontier. Honda is not the best example since they have the direct injected gasoline engine and so far it is a major failure with poor engineering.

    Now with the EV, the battery releasing energy is a chemical process bound by the laws of physics and limited to the current stable elements. The only improvement we can hope for is better packaging to get more pounds of elements in the vehicle. That adds weight and limits cargo/occupant capacity. Better charging technology can improve the downtime after the "fuel" runs out. The EV future is driven by government regulations, like it or not.

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