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  1. #1
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    OT: WTF is up w/ Jeep

    Ok so first I see they get rid of the Cherokee Classic, then its replaced w/ the liberty. I could deal w/ that. Then I see a flippin HEMI Grand Cherokee. And then a Cherokee SRT8,Now a Jeep Compass?....what the F***. Why don't they just slap a dodge logo on them and make it complete. Granted I know a lot of companies have their spin off companies based on similar platforms.....Ford, Mercury, Lincoln...etc. but a jeep has always been a jeep. I just feels like they've lost their soul. Anyone want to add?

    OK Thanks for listening to my rant....had to get that off my chest
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    They're also putting a Cummins 4.2L Diesel in the Wrangler.



    https://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/25/...-jeep-at-sema/

    btw, there is a Car and Biker forum now

  3. #3
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    Getting rid of the original cherokee was a huge fackin mistake in my opinion. That was one of my all time fav. vehicles.

    Let them shoot themselves in the foot along with the other stateside companies. I'm happy with my Nissan.

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    oh i know, most threads i've seen there were about bike racks and which car to buy. I didn't want to distract anyone
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    your complaining about putting a Hemi V8 in a Jeep?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-VegasMTBiker
    Ok so first I see they get rid of the Cherokee Classic, then its replaced w/ the liberty. I could deal w/ that. Then I see a flippin HEMI Grand Cherokee. And then a Cherokee SRT8,Now a Jeep Compass?....what the F***. Why don't they just slap a dodge logo on them and make it complete. Granted I know a lot of companies have their spin off companies based on similar platforms.....Ford, Mercury, Lincoln...etc. but a jeep has always been a jeep. I just feels like they've lost their soul. Anyone want to add?

    OK Thanks for listening to my rant....had to get that off my chest
    Jeep's making a mistake with the Compass. The Patriot too, although not so much with that one,

    There's hope though - the 09(?) Liberty will look much more like the Cherokee. Between that and a possible true hard top 4 door Wrangler, and a diesel option, they just might keep me in the fold for my next truck.
    Take the long cut, we'll get there eventually.

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    A new Jeep with a Cummins Diesel??!!

    Sweet!! but I bet it would be REALLY expensive.

    I would love to have a Wrangler 4x4 with a Cummins diesel. With the new low-sulfur clean diesel maybe this will happen

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvictaS1
    your complaining about putting a Hemi V8 in a Jeep?!?
    Yes I am, because of all those retarded "That thing got a Hemi!" commercials. Yep, cause were all mindless nascar fans. And its ridiculous that there advertising ANOTHER V8 as gas prices continue to rise, (I know there down for now, but the've got no where else to go but back up, face it gas is NEVER gonna be cheaper than $2 a gallon). So what do they do, MDS so you can have the power of a V8 and the fuel efficiency 4 banger. Why does anyone need a V8 anyway aside from Towing something. ugh i hate dodge
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-VegasMTBiker
    Yes I am, because of all those retarded "That thing got a Hemi!" commercials. Yep, cause were all mindless nascar fans. And its ridiculous that there advertising ANOTHER V8 as gas prices continue to rise, (I know there down for now, but the've got no where else to go but back up, face it gas is NEVER gonna be cheaper than $2 a gallon). So what do they do, MDS so you can have the power of a V8 and the fuel efficiency 4 banger. Why does anyone need a V8 anyway aside from Towing something. ugh i hate dodge
    Its under 2$ a gallon in oklahoma..

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    heh, just figures doesn't it. well i guess everywhere isn't like New England
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    Yes, Jeep has strayed from their roots.
    They replaced the Cherokee with the Liberty and gave it independent suspension instead of live axles with the Cherokee. Live axles ride harsher, but are supremely better for offroading. Great pic proving my point:


    Now, they've introduced FWD models based on the Dodge Calibur that can't offroad at all, and they're replacing the bulletproof AMC straight-6 with a newer design.
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    Aint been the same since :
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    I don't think they marketed the Liberty to be an off road SUV. It's designed to pick up the kids and get to the mall, more than it was designed to off road. Kind of like the H1 campared to the H2 and 3.

    BTW why does Dogde keep reminding everyone that they are now part German? It's getting to the point of VW. Every Dodge commercial mentions that it's part German. I'm assuming they do this because Americans think German cars are better, so any car that has to do with Germany will sell better. It's ironic that people in Germany think Japan makes the best cars. (I read that in an auto article a few months back).

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    That wagoneer was the biggest pos they've made yet. They were cool in theory but turds to drive. I also had an '85 cj7 renegade. It was also a pos. I've been happy with toyotas and nissans ever since. I'm looking forward to a japanese diesel (tacoma or frontier).

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    Jeep died when they cut the Cherokee from production and put a mini-van dash w/ coil springs in the TJ Wrangler. Thank god I found my YJ when I did, 45,000 miles on a 93 means I have plenty of driving left in the old (read better) Jeeps.

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    Don't think thats a fair comparison as one can see that the solid axle Jeep has far more travel in the suspension. In fact, the independent suspension Jeep seems pretty much stock. And I believe the latest technology of Baha trophy trucks feature independent suspension, as much as 30 inches of travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raghavan
    Yes, Jeep has strayed from their roots.
    They replaced the Cherokee with the Liberty and gave it independent suspension instead of live axles with the Cherokee. Live axles ride harsher, but are supremely better for offroading. Great pic proving my point:


    Now, they've introduced FWD models based on the Dodge Calibur that can't offroad at all, and they're replacing the bulletproof AMC straight-6 with a newer design.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-VegasMTBiker
    Ok so first I see they get rid of the Cherokee Classic, then its replaced w/ the liberty. I could deal w/ that. Then I see a flippin HEMI Grand Cherokee. And then a Cherokee SRT8,Now a Jeep Compass?....what the F***. Why don't they just slap a dodge logo on them and make it complete. Granted I know a lot of companies have their spin off companies based on similar platforms.....Ford, Mercury, Lincoln...etc. but a jeep has always been a jeep. I just feels like they've lost their soul. Anyone want to add?

    OK Thanks for listening to my rant....had to get that off my chest
    Nothin new. When the ZJ was introduced in 1993 it was available with a V8...a Chrysler V8 318 ci and a Chrysler trans, Dana axles, Chrysler interior, New Process transfer case. Not much Jeep stuff at all. Maybe the suspension linkage. The 6 cylinder base engine was AMC, so thats sorta Jeep I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    That wagoneer was the biggest pos they've made yet. They were cool in theory but turds to drive. I also had an '85 cj7 renegade. It was also a pos. I've been happy with toyotas and nissans ever since. I'm looking forward to a japanese diesel (tacoma or frontier).
    Well...Drove nice enough for a 1963 design. Pretty much unchanged since. Friggin tank and I sold mine ('91) last year with 120k on it and running literally like new.
    The original SUV

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanghasyou
    Don't think thats a fair comparison as one can see that the solid axle Jeep has far more travel in the suspension. In fact, the independent suspension Jeep seems pretty much stock. And I believe the latest technology of Baha trophy trucks feature independent suspension, as much as 30 inches of travel.
    You're right that the Liberty is stock and the XJ has a modified suspension, but a bone stock XJ or ZJ will flex very close to that amount. I've personally done it.

    For slow speed crawling, which is shown in those pics, its not technically the amount of suspension travel that matters, but the amount of articulation or flex....two different things. An XJ/ZJ might only have 4-6 inches of suspension travel, but can articulate twice that. An IFS IRS vehicle like the Liberty can not. A Baha truck with 30 inches of travel will not be as capable in slow speed uneven ground crawling as a solid axle jeep either.

  20. #20
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    Everytime I see a broken jeep on the side of a road I can't help but think about the moto:

    "Its a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand"

    I still don't understand why people buy them things... They are fun to drive though.

  21. #21
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    Sweet!!!! I have been eyeing the four door to add to my other two TJs. The way I look at it, Jeep needs to stay competitive and the only way to do that is to be innovative with their designs. The Compass is definetly not a Trail Rated vehicle and they don't market it that way. I do scratch my head a little bit with that car. It really doesn't fit Jeeps image all that well. I understand why, however, I still can't believe they have a 2 wheel drive only option for the wrangler 4 door. The Patriot reminds me of the Cherokee. Companies have to evolve if not they get left behind. However, some ideas will simply fizzle and force companies to go back to the drawing board.
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    I want one of those..

    seen um around..

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanghasyou
    Don't think thats a fair comparison as one can see that the solid axle Jeep has far more travel in the suspension. In fact, the independent suspension Jeep seems pretty much stock.

    Not to mention the liberty was driven deeper into the ditch at a different angle to make the IFS flex look even worse; plus, in order to flex that much the XJ has its front sway bar disconnected. The XJ was a decent 4x4, but the design had definitely run its course. The new 4-door wrangler is the true replacement for it and except for the longer wheel base is a vast improvement on the XJ in my opinion. As far as the compass and the libery go, they are just jeep's way of cashing on the soccer mom crowd. Jeep seems to have updated its image quite nicely.
    Last edited by croatiansensation; 11-07-2006 at 10:58 AM.

  24. #24
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    Nice to see the Cherokee love in here. I rolled my 96 a month ago, went over twice (maybe 3?) and the thing still runs. I could drive it if I put the tires back on. I also came away complete unharmed.

    After searching for a new car, I realized that a "new" jeep was my only option. Ended up getting a lightly used 01 Cherokee.

    (i'll upload a pic when I get home)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Stumpy
    The Patriot reminds me of the Cherokee.
    I thought that too, then I noticed it's the same platform as the Dodge Caliber and Jeep Compass.
    When I look at the new Nitro, that is really the closet it comes to the original style/performance Cherokee (Especially the rear view).

    Still holding on to my '98 Cherokee. I love it.
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    Didn't know that!! That bites!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-VegasMTBiker
    Yes I am, because of all those retarded "That thing got a Hemi!" commercials. Yep, cause were all mindless nascar fans. And its ridiculous that there advertising ANOTHER V8 as gas prices continue to rise, (I know there down for now, but the've got no where else to go but back up, face it gas is NEVER gonna be cheaper than $2 a gallon). So what do they do, MDS so you can have the power of a V8 and the fuel efficiency 4 banger. Why does anyone need a V8 anyway aside from Towing something. ugh i hate dodge
    It sure beats the old 343 V-8, the 360 V-8, or the 401 V-8's that came in Cherokees a long time ago...

    Don't forget you could get a Torqueflite 727 (Chrysler) or aTH400 (General Motors) in a Cherokee for a while too, so what's the big deal over the Hemi?

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    Well I have recently found a 95 Cherokee with the 4.0 I6 with 120,000 miles in great shape for $4500.

    Or there is a late 70's Cherokee Sport two-door with a 360 that is very rusty and very rough for $500.

    Opinions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetfan2207
    I don't think they marketed the Liberty to be an off road SUV. It's designed to pick up the kids and get to the mall, more than it was designed to off road. Kind of like the H1 campared to the H2 and 3.
    You mean the "Trail Rated" badges are only marketing ploys on the liberty?

    I also have to say the H2 and H3 would do well to park in the grass at the 4H fair.

    *Compared to an actual "Jeep"*

  30. #30
    yeah, uh............bikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhound
    Well I have recently found a 95 Cherokee with the 4.0 I6 with 120,000 miles in great shape for $4500.

    Or there is a late 70's Cherokee Sport two-door with a 360 that is very rusty and very rough for $500.

    Opinions?
    I'll sell you my 96 for $500.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam2Xrunner
    They're also putting a Cummins 4.2L Diesel in the Wrangler.



    https://www.autoblog.com/2006/10/25/...-jeep-at-sema/

    btw, there is a Car and Biker forum now
    Hmmm... wonder if that Cummins will go in the standard Wrangler, too? If so, that's my next vehicle!

    I've on my second Cummins powered Ram and love the engine! With the new technology (common fuel rail, computer controls) and a good turbo you can't really tell the difference between a diesel and a gas engine in terms of acceleration or noise. I mean you're not going to win any races, but with a Jeep, that's not the point, is it?
    Last edited by skiahh; 11-07-2006 at 07:08 PM.

  32. #32
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    Well, as much I detest some of the newer Jeep models (the Commander is an ugly pervsion of the XJ's greatness) saying that they are straying from their roots is a bit of a fetch. Jeep has made a few street specific vehciles. The Jeepster in specific comes to mind.
    http://4wheeldrive.about.com/gi/dyna...ry%2Fhist3.htm
    The Commando was a version of the Jeepster that was a bit more suited for rugged trails, but as a stocker, was pretty low to the road.

    Dont forget about the J trucks. While not street specific, they werent "Jeeps" in the purest sense.

    That said, Chrysler is taking things the wrong way. The four doors are UGLY, the Commander is a POS. Huge, heavy, non torque-y engines... ugh.

    BTW, I have a '79 CJ% and a '92 YJ. Love em both, but the CJ is for sale if anyone is interested. I'll never give up the YJ.

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    Jeep made cars a long long time ago (I think it was called the Willys Aero or something)

    Supposedly Jeep wants to use the Compass to compete in the rally circuit (i'm assuming using the 300hp turbo'd engine from the Calibur) with the AWD version. Somehow I highly doubt this idea will ever come to fruitation, but it would redeam them somewhat. I truly think this is a terrible idea that might alienate a lot of Jeep fans. The Patriot is sort of the same thing, but at least the CVT equipped one is supposed to be "trail rated" and it doesn't look like crap.
    Last edited by mrchristian; 11-07-2006 at 11:52 PM.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 95Stumpy
    Didn't know that!! That bites!!!
    Hey, it's not that bad, since it is also the same platform used for the Neon, which most experts agree was a very dependable one.
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  35. #35
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    There was a special on the History Channel last night about Jeep and Rover...pretty cool show.

    My first car was an '85 cherokee sport with the monster 2.5L 4 banger. Nevertheless, I could take that thing places my truck never would have gone. Now that I have an Xterra, I can do all of that again but the XJ still has my complete admiration.

  36. #36
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    well...

    At least JEEP sponsors the King Of The Mountain series, that counts for something in my book!

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    Good thread and good post.

    Thought I would chime in since my family has owned Jeeps since the mid 70s.
    Jeeps have been part of our family as far back as I can remember (22 yrs.). I was brought home from the hospital when I was born in the back of a Grand Wagoneer, we went through 2 of um'. I learned how to drive in a Wagoneer. That was the true SUV. D44s, 360, 727, could pull a house. But got horrible milage.

    Here is our current break down of Jeeps.
    XJ's 4
    ZJ's 3
    Wagoneer 2
    Grand Wagoneer 2
    WJ's 3

    My dad just gave my brother his 04 WJ to buy an 06 Range Rover HSE. Dad looked at the Commander, but it just did not feel or drive like a Jeep, was actually nice! After driving the Rover, he was sold.

    I agree w/ everyone that says that Jeep died after they stopped selling the XJ in the states. The XJ was the best compromise to everything. W/ the I6 backed to the AW-4 tranny (which is Asian Warner, part of Toyota) w/ Chrsyler and Dana axles (Dana HP30 and Chy.8.25) w/ a New Process or New Venture transfercase, they were simple. Very easy to work on, very easy to clean, maintain, etc. Good on mpg, simpe, reliable. I loved my old XJ, so did my brother.

    They also made the XJ overseas past '02. Im not sure what is going on on with the design in Asia, but I've seen pictures of an 03 and 04 Cherokee from Asia.

    I am looking forward to seeing the Cummins is the new Wrangler. Cummins is an excellent motor w/ TONS of power and potential.

    Good post.

  38. #38
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    yup

    I miss the Cherokee(XJ); it was fairly cheap and easily upgraded to a trail king. So to try to capitalize on the rep of the XJ they take the IFS Grand platform and stack a bunch of square sheetmetal on it thinking the shape is all that matters The Hemi SRT8 isn't a jeeps jeep but anything that blows away the Cayan turbo for half the$$$$$$$ is O.K. in my book but I'd like to see something like the new Patriot with the XJ's old suspension but that's not going to happen. so I just buy the old XJ or in this case an MJ Comanche pickup and wax nostalgic about the glorious Jeeps past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanghasyou
    Don't think thats a fair comparison as one can see that the solid axle Jeep has far more travel in the suspension. In fact, the independent suspension Jeep seems pretty much stock. And I believe the latest technology of Baha trophy trucks feature independent suspension, as much as 30 inches of travel.
    Live axles articulate MUCH better. Since both wheels are connected, pushing one up will push the other down, amking it much better for offroading. Independent suspension doesn't do that. So you'll need a lot more travel from a IRS to make up what it loses over a live axle.
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    Independent Front sucks for just about everything that deals with full sized rigs.

    The only reason they put it on bigger rigs is to make them feel more like cars at the expence of brute strength so they can sell them to moms and stuff.

    My wife wants to lift her Tahoe, it would cost $1000-$2000 for a small lift cause its IFS.

    If it was a ford truck with a solid front axle it would cost $500-$1000 and you can lift it to the sky if you wanted.

    Hell, alot of full-size rigs come with independent rear now, F that.
    I can't believe people actually think they're getting a better overall rig if it has IFS and IRS.

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    It all went down hill when they stopped making the cj series and switched to rectangular headlights. If it were up to me they would scarp all the yuppie soccer mom shite they make these days and just make a replica of the willys, a cj, the old boxy cherokee and maybe the grand wagoneer i think it was, and perhaps the jeep truck. None of these with power anything, all carb engines, straight pipes, maybe even using leaded gas. But then again i am one of those people that think that if car companies made (real) replicas of their cars rom the 30's-60's they would outsell the new fangled lame bubble cars that are being pushed these days.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-VegasMTBiker
    Yes I am, because of all those retarded "That thing got a Hemi!" commercials. Yep, cause were all mindless nascar fans. And its ridiculous that there advertising ANOTHER V8 as gas prices continue to rise, (I know there down for now, but the've got no where else to go but back up, face it gas is NEVER gonna be cheaper than $2 a gallon). So what do they do, MDS so you can have the power of a V8 and the fuel efficiency 4 banger. Why does anyone need a V8 anyway aside from Towing something. ugh i hate dodge
    Yes, Hate Dodge. Not the consumer that fuels the Hemi binge , who also doesnt seemed fazed by gas prices between $2 and $3 a gallon. Dodge has plenty of higher MPG vehicles, if You want them that is...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerSHO
    Independent Front sucks for just about everything that deals with full sized rigs.
    I've hears this from lots of people. I have solid axles in my Ram, but I don't really understand the difference (edit: I understand the mechanical differences, just not the capability difference) or why the IFS is so hated.

    Doesn't the Hummer H1 have, basically, independent axles to all 4 wheels? While it doesn't truly "rock crawl", it's more capable than 99% of the off road vehicles out there.
    Last edited by skiahh; 11-10-2006 at 09:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh
    I've hears this from lots of people. I have solid axles in my Ram, but I don't really understand the difference (edit: I understand the mechanical differences, just not the capability difference) or why the IFS is so hated.

    Doesn't the Hummer H1 have, basically, independent axles to all 4 wheels? While it doesn't truly "rock crawl", it's more capable than 99% of the off road vehicles out there.
    Ahh good questions.

    I'm no expert but this is how I feel.
    Let me start off with the hummer cause the hummer is a special case.
    Everything is always cost vs. performance and the hummer doesn't really fit into this, it is functionality before cost so the general rules don't apply.

    The H1's design was for the most amount ground clerance but without making it top heavy and susceptible to rolling over easy. Did you know the "axles" for the hummer actually feed through the suspension arms? It's flippin sick nothing hangs down under the hummer. It would take a truck lifted twice as high as the hummer to get the same ground clearance.

    As far as why your solid front axle is better is because the design is simple, strong and VERY cost effective to lift. Also, do you see any indepentant suspension designs on anything that carries or tows any large amounts of weight? All solid axles.
    For the challenges of off-roading, IFS or IRS just can't keep up, it inherently is a weak design, unless you got BIG bucks, I.E. the hummer.

    For cars a solid front axle is a joke. Solid axles just don't belong on the front of cars and very few still have them in the rear. Independent suspension designs are superior for keeping the tire on the road and keeping the maximum amount of tire patch touching the most amount of pavement under all conditions(braking, cornering, basically pushing your car to the edge) .

    Solid axles are superior for durability and strength, brute force if you will.
    They still work great for drag racing also.
    Last edited by MillerSHO; 11-10-2006 at 02:28 PM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Everytime I see a broken jeep on the side of a road I can't help but think about the moto:

    "Its a jeep thing, you wouldn't understand"

    I still don't understand why people buy them things... They are fun to drive though.

    My moms got her 93 cherokee that we bought brand new, and that thing is still going strong and nevers breaks down.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MillerSHO
    Ahh good questions.

    [snip]

    The H1's design was for the most amount ground clerance but without making it top heavy and susceptible to rolling over easy. Did you know the "axles" for the hummer actually feed through the suspension arms? It's flippin sick nothing hangs down under the hummer. It would take a truck lifted twice as high as the hummer to get the same ground clearance.

    [snip]

    One more thing about the hummer, its design was for the most amount ground clerance but without making it top heavy and susepable to rolling over easy. Did you know the "axles" for the hummer actually feed through the suspension arms? It's flippin sick nothing hangs down under the hummer. It would take a truck lifted twice as high as the hummer to get the same ground clearance.
    you said the same thing twice... you said the same thing twice.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by revmonkey
    you said the same thing twice... you said the same thing twice.



    Hey we all make mistakes, we all make mistakes.

  48. #48
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    I love my 5.9 Limited.....one of 14k made and I've had is since brand spanking new. It beats my 350Z off the line too...
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