Landrover Discovery- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Landrover Discovery

    Hey all! I'm interested to find out if any of you have the "best 4x4xfar" disco... i really want to pick one up early next year, an 04 actually, and i'd love to see some pics of any discovery's or any landrovers you might have.
    I'm also interested to hear about disco's versus mountain bikes. My question is, can a bike fit in the back of a disco? Here's my idea: i want to get a disco and use it as a vault for all my mountain biking stuff and go riding whenever the mood strikes. So i need to know how well they hold stuff in the back. Also, FYI, I'm not interested in the back seats whatsoever, so if I have the option, they're gone. I hope i've made myself clear enough... please help. Thanks
    "You can become a very fast donkey, but you'll never be a thoroughbred..."

  2. #2
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    I could be wrong...

    but FWIU, Land Rover transmissions are garbage. I dunno if they ever fixed this, but I have heard this from several sources.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pimpbot
    but FWIU, Land Rover transmissions are garbage. I dunno if they ever fixed this, but I have heard this from several sources.
    ???? WHAT???? I have never heard that. I know a lot of Rover folks and my family has had 3. What transmission problems are they having?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by homey
    Hey all! I'm interested to find out if any of you have the "best 4x4xfar" disco... i really want to pick one up early next year, an 04 actually, and i'd love to see some pics of any discovery's or any landrovers you might have.
    I'm also interested to hear about disco's versus mountain bikes. My question is, can a bike fit in the back of a disco? Here's my idea: i want to get a disco and use it as a vault for all my mountain biking stuff and go riding whenever the mood strikes. So i need to know how well they hold stuff in the back. Also, FYI, I'm not interested in the back seats whatsoever, so if I have the option, they're gone. I hope i've made myself clear enough... please help. Thanks
    For pics you ca go through my photobucket, there are a bunch of sub catagories on the left also
    https://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c...0road%20Trips/

    If you don't care about back seats you will be fine, I would get a truck bar(that is removable) to make a fork mount for stability however!

  5. #5
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    I'm not a fan of Rover's, but those pic's are awesome. I miss my Jeep and going off road looking for obstacles.
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  6. #6
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    I've spent some hard time working for a Land Rover dealership, and I only have one word of advice....DON'T!!!!!!!!!!
    I could write a novel of horror stories about these vehicles, however I'll spare you the gory details. Please don't buy one, you will regret it, even though I don't know you, and I've never met you, think of this as an intervention. Friends don't let friends disco.

    BTW here's a link about Land Rover's last place J.D. power rating http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/10/l...quality-study/
    Sorry to harsh your Land Rover buzz man
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondhead
    I've spent some hard time working for a Land Rover dealership, and I only have one word of advice....DON'T!!!!!!!!!!
    I could write a novel of horror stories about these vehicles, however I'll spare you the gory details. Please don't buy one, you will regret it, even though I don't know you, and I've never met you, think of this as an intervention. Friends don't let friends disco.

    BTW here's a link about Land Rover's last place J.D. power rating http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/10/l...quality-study/
    Sorry to harsh your Land Rover buzz man

    Working at a dealer you tend to see the problems, being a mechanic you "fix" them. Many people don't like them... For me they have been fantastic SUV's. I have put mine through hell and it keeps going, I have noticed that you have to use them, they seem to fail if they are left as street queens. At least that is what it seems like! To each their own!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Funrover
    Working at a dealer you tend to see the problems, being a mechanic you "fix" them. Many people don't like them... For me they have been fantastic SUV's. I have put mine through hell and it keeps going, I have noticed that you have to use them, they seem to fail if they are left as street queens. At least that is what it seems like! To each their own!
    Yes, you are correct, at the dealership we see the problems, and we fix them, however you forgot that we also smile, and take your money!
    "It's a Sledgehamer" "Dang! You got shocks, pegs...lucky! " Napoleon Dynamite & Pedro Sanchez

  9. #9
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    Love my Disco!

    Quote Originally Posted by homey
    Hey all! I'm interested to find out if any of you have the "best 4x4xfar" disco... i really want to pick one up early next year, an 04 actually, and i'd love to see some pics of any discovery's or any landrovers you might have.
    I'm also interested to hear about disco's versus mountain bikes. My question is, can a bike fit in the back of a disco? Here's my idea: i want to get a disco and use it as a vault for all my mountain biking stuff and go riding whenever the mood strikes. So i need to know how well they hold stuff in the back. Also, FYI, I'm not interested in the back seats whatsoever, so if I have the option, they're gone. I hope i've made myself clear enough... please help. Thanks
    Homey, I am a proud Disco II owner. Mine is a 2002 LR Disco II and it has been fantastic. It is a daily driver. The only issues I have EVER had with it was that I have had to replace the driveshaft (needed a zirk grease fitting) and to replace the brake rotors. Other than that, just very basic maintenance. I actually take mine off road from time to time and use it to haul a crapload of gear to mountainbike races where we usually camp with kids and such, so it is a very utilitarian vehicle. I also use it in the snow every winter and it has been phenominal. I would suggest you be very careful in searching for your Disco. Also, find a good Land Rover Repair guy as that is almost as important as finding a good vehicle when owning one of these things. It is not easy on gas, it is not fast. It is very durable, functional and safe. If you are going to use it as a fortress for your bike, please, tint the windows as dark as reasonable so people don't see your bike in back and get tempted!! Other than that, knock yourself out! If I can, i will post pics later. If you want to see mine in action... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvX2Vw7vTtg
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  10. #10
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    Nice DII man!

  11. #11
    avg. joe
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    Another Disco lover here. Mine is a 2001(SE7) with 98,000 on it and I haven't had any more trouble out of this vehicle than my previous vehicles. I would def. buy another one in the future.

    For bike carrying issues, I bought a dual hitch which lets me add a cargo tray below my bike rack. The tray holds all of the "first touch" items for the camping trips ... tent, dining fly, chairs, and ground cloth.

    For trips without the family, the bikes fit nicely in the back.

    I would post a pic, but this goofy work computer has too many restrictions.

    STinGa
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  12. #12
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    I had a 1992 Range Rover, which was during the pre-Ford years. Quality was terrible. I had numerous problems with all vehicle systems. 2004 is post-Ford ownership, so I think quality improved some (yes I know that sounds ironic).

    The up-side is that discos depreciate hard and fast, so you can get a "luxury" suv for little money.

    Discoweb.org is the place for you to ask your LR questions.

    An abbreviated list of things I fixed or problems I lived with on this truck which had less than 140000 miles.

    3 alternators
    power steering pump
    water pump
    heater blower motor
    heater resistor
    numerous problems with the POS Lucas electrical system
    piston slap
    valve train noise
    leaking axle seals
    kingpin adjustments on front axle (who still has to adjust shims on modern cars? Nobody!)
    bad catalytic converter
    exhaust leaks at the cylinder surface and at every joint in the system
    electric door locks didn't work
    air stepper motor carboned up
    leaking air conditioner
    bad throttle position sensor
    bad coolant temp sensors
    bad oxygen sensors (lamda sensors for the LR snobs)
    leaking rear axle
    The list goes on.

  13. #13
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    While they do quite well offroad, my buddy's Discovery (his second one) is in the shop a lot. The other one was too. Last month, his window froze and the window motor was busted and then his transmission went out on the drive to work. A few thousand dollars later, it was back for 2-3 weeks and is in the shop again as of yesterday....not sure what it is this time. It drives like crap too. However, if you absolutely have to have one, make sure it was not offroaded and keep some cash aside to fix things.

    They really do suck (reliability-wise) and the LR3 isn't much better. The one great thing is that they do perform very well off-road and if they stay in one piece, they are fun to take off-road. Sorry for the buzzkill but I know others with Range Rovers and Discos and all those stupid things cost them thousands. It seems that electrical problems that totally kill the motor are quite common too. Just know what you may be getting into and you should not be unprepared if something happens. My buddy's two Discoveries are the running joke of all his riding buddies. Every season, he calls us several times since he just got stranded somewhere. We picked him up 5-6 times from the light rail stations since his vehicle was in the shop.

  14. #14
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    good friend has worked for a dealer for 5+yrs and highly recommenrds not getting any rovers, especially the discoveries. i've not really picked his brains to throw down specifics (he mentioned two specific yrs of the discovery being far superior to the other years...), but in casual conversations the two primary reasons were the suspensions sytem (can't tell you how many rovers i've seen around that are sagging so badly in the rear they looked like they must be carrying 1000#s too much only to find it's really a suspension issue) and the fact that they changed SOOOOO many parts/features EACH year that replacement parts are stupid expensive because you have to almost exclusively get the parts from that year and not simply from that body style's production run.

    me? i don't have a dog in this fight...just passing along what i've heard from a previous owner/5+yr current employee.

    good luck either way....
    ride fast...take chances...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by iridetitus
    good friend has worked for a dealer for 5+yrs and highly recommenrds not getting any rovers, especially the discoveries. i've not really picked his brains to throw down specifics (he mentioned two specific yrs of the discovery being far superior to the other years...), but in casual conversations the two primary reasons were the suspensions sytem (can't tell you how many rovers i've seen around that are sagging so badly in the rear they looked like they must be carrying 1000#s too much only to find it's really a suspension issue) and the fact that they changed SOOOOO many parts/features EACH year that replacement parts are stupid expensive because you have to almost exclusively get the parts from that year and not simply from that body style's production run.

    me? i don't have a dog in this fight...just passing along what i've heard from a previous owner/5+yr current employee.

    good luck either way....

    The big suspension problem with Land Rover is the Air Ride system, I will admit this system is crap. I am not sure on the parts per year, I always get parts for a range of years just like any other car I have owned.

  16. #16
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    I had been thinking about/ researching buying a Disco for about a year. I want a trail worthy rig that doubles as a luxury bike hauler. After lots of reading forums, reviews and speaking with a local mechanic (lot's of Rovers in town...) I've decided to let it go. The most common problems I've heard of are leaky hoses (easy fix) leaky diffs, and transmissions just quitting. I'm bummed, but now I'm looking into more "pedestrian" vehicles (chevy, jeep, ford) and I'm finding that there really aren't a lot of reliable SUV's out there. I guess my choice should be based on which will be least expensive to maintain/ repair.

  17. #17
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    My Land Rover dream.......

    I recently was on a Land Rover binge as well. After researching the Camel Trophy races and watching hours of film from them, I had decided that there would be nothing better than trying to convert an early 90's Disco into a Camel Trophy truck. You could do it for relatively chap as well. When I started researching the vehicles themselves I realized they are absolute garbage (hence why used ones are so cheap, see depreciation issue stated later). You are really screwed when you purchase any Land Rover product. The older Range Rovers and Discos are horribly engineered, designed, and built. You would be stupid to purchase any newer Land Rover vehicle because the depreciation on them. I believe it is the highest of any new vehicle, and after all that depreciation you're still stuck with an awful truck. Also, as someone pointed out earlier, Land Rover vehicles are constantly at the bottom of quality and buyer satisfaction polls. Their new vehicles are so hideous that I think you need to be a wanna-be rapper to drive one. Really, the only Land Rover I would ever consider buying is an old Defender. A good one will run you big bucks, and I'm sure repairs and maintenance on the things are ridiculously expensive, but they are so damn cool, I think they may be worth the hassle.

  18. #18
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    To anyone reading: Don't buy a Discovery

    I was even thinking with my own experience that I could throw a Chevy Crate engine and auto trans in one to eliminate a lot of the problems or try to get a 540 V8 in there. However, everything else has massive problems and needs fixing all the time.

  19. #19
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    To anyone reading: Don't buy a Discovery

    I was even thinking with my own experience that I could throw a Chevy Crate engine and auto trans in one to eliminate a lot of the problems or try to get a 540 V8 in there. However, everything else has massive problems and needs fixing all the time.

  20. #20
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    I bought one out of school and hated it . Under powered and sucked gas. I bought it for all the wrong reasons and was glad when I got rid of it. Not to impressed w/ British engineering.
    My mother has a Disco II and loves it. So each their own.

    I took this pic of one at the Hotter n Hell 08 and thought it was cool
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  21. #21
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    That shadow looks like it's chugging down a beer.

  22. #22
    i call it a kaiser blade
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    as a long time off-roader, i can tell you to stay the hell away from rovers.

    the electrics, transmissions, seals, etc. are terribly subpar. BMW and ford management has done little to fix that, too.

    get an old 4runner.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That shadow looks like it's chugging down a beer.
    LOL
    No me trying to focus the lens
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  24. #24
    i call it a kaiser blade
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    Quote Originally Posted by j944
    LOL
    No me trying to focus the lens
    it's alright.

    alcohol helps me focus, too.

  25. #25
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    I'll chime in!

    We bought our Disco 2 (2001) 2 years ago. Problem's that came about in the first year were.
    Drive shaft
    Radiator
    Air bag suspension (replaced with springs now)
    ABS main valve block
    Those were the big issues and none of then were cheap to fix!
    Needless to say we were pretty upset to have all these issues and none of them were cheap to fix!!
    That being said, when we bought this truck we knew we were getting what could be considered an "exotic" vehicle (not Ford, jeep, chevy etc). When you make the decision to own one of these vehicles it's with the understanding you pay more money for repairs and they are a bit quircky. For us (knock on wood) it has never left us stranded. We live in SW Colorado and although I'm certainly not a 4WD enthusiast I've taken visitors over many of the high 4X4 passes here (Imogene Pass etc) without a problem and our's is completely stock. It handles like a dream in the snow and on long road trips (6hrs) it is super comfortable.
    Our other vehicle is an 87 VW vanagon Syncro. I won't even start to get into the list of problems and quircks with that vehicle!
    But I gotta say we love them both
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  26. #26
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    my suggestion if you want a good rig for off roading, get an older(pre98 or so) jeep wrangler w/ the hard top on it, get eht 4.0l I6 w/ the manual and you CANNOT kill it i know some w/ over 500k on them and still running strong. i know its nothing special, but if you find one that hasnt been offroaded and is in good condition they are relatively cheap, (once you take the back seats out should be plenty of room for a bike or two) and i have never seen one stuck unless the driver did something REALLY stupid.

    these damn things are reliable beyond belief and the 4.0l is more than enough power to move it (just dont the 2.5l I4, they are underpowerd) so go for the jeep, you wont be sorry

  27. #27
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    I'm amazed by the Land Rover bashing here... Not to dismiss anyone's experiences, I've grown up around Land Rover's with a close friend of mine who builds them from chassis up. They are like any car - there are good and bad one's. You only have to watch any decent 'treking' adventure, wildlife programme, etc to see the the Landy is used the world over. In many ways it's one of the most environmentally friendly vehicles - there is a figure of around 70% of Land Rovers built are still being used somewhere in the world... Not the "buy now and throw away" variety like other cars. Now I'd love to see another car manufacturer be able to make that claim.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw1970
    I'm amazed by the Land Rover bashing here... Not to dismiss anyone's experiences, I've grown up around Land Rover's with a close friend of mine who builds them from chassis up. They are like any car - there are good and bad one's. You only have to watch any decent 'treking' adventure, wildlife programme, etc to see the the Landy is used the world over. In many ways it's one of the most environmentally friendly vehicles - there is a figure of around 70% of Land Rovers built are still being used somewhere in the world... Not the "buy now and throw away" variety like other cars. Now I'd love to see another car manufacturer be able to make that claim.
    That's ridiculous. Anyone can go ahead and say 70% of their vehicles are still on the road, therefore they are environmentally friendly, but what went into keeping them on the road, from fuel consumption, to fluid leaks, to replacement parts over and over to keep them on the road?

    As far as the "trekking adventures", sure that's the goal of using these vehicles in those programs. People think if those vehicles can handle that, then they should be great on the road for me!

    Sorry, but those vehicles are not generally standard production models. They have either been rebuilt by hand, and gone over thoroughly for either weak points and/or add ons to make them work in the specific conditions the "Trekking adventure" might impose on those vehicles. It's ridiculous to think those go right off the street without rebuilds and swaps in conditions that can actually end up in death if the vehicle fails.

    On top of that, you don't know the origins of those vehicles and their usage. In street usage, when you put any significant amount of miles on a LR, it starts falling apart, mechanically, and electronically.

    Now the shows I see use Land Cruisers and 4 Runners. Not even Jeeps. It's Land Cruisers and 4 Runners. Come to think of it, I also see Mitsubishi Pajeros, Mercedes G-Wagens, and various Nissans not available in the US, not Land Rovers.

  29. #29
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    Jerk Chicken, you make a fair comment about the vehicles being 'rebuilt by hand, etc...'. However, I'm aware of many friends in the agricultural industry who use their vehicles off-road with no modifications and no failures. There are, as I mentioned good and bad vehicles...

    As for the 70% reference, it's something widely known in Land Rover circles - here's a link to a quote referring to it...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Series

    "Land Rover say that 70% of these vehicles ever made are still in use today- a claim first made in the 1992 brochure and repeated many times since, being much publicised when cited by Richard Hammond of the BBC's Top Gear."

    Now, I appreciate that some drivers will experience problems with Land Rovers and there are certainly high dealership repair figures... but I stand by my opinion that the vehicle is by far the best 4x4 available today and a very good choice of vehicle for the OP.

  30. #30
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    You can believe everything you read on wikipedia, especially when those circles are the ones doing the posting.

    Now your wording is becoming suspect- It might be "the best 4x4" available today, but that's not the same thing as being good for reliable transportation on the street, where you might want something dependable that doesn't need a AAA towing contract.

  31. #31
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    I'm happy to agree to disagree...
    Enjoy the trails and happy new year : )

  32. #32
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    At 46, I have owned several vehicles including four 4wd rigs (FJ40, 94 Disco, Tacoma, Suburban). Only because you asked, the Disco was the least reliable vehicle I have owned and the most expensive to fix.

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    Just a thought......

    Did anyone ever think that maybe the reason why Land Rovers are used all over the world is because the British Empire? Think about it, at one point 1/4 of the world's population was under British rule. Once the British Empire collapsed, the countries that were left behind adopted British culture such as football (American soccer), soccer, and driving on the left-hand side of the road. Why not adopt the use of the Land Rover as well.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by achemers
    Did anyone ever think that maybe the reason why Land Rovers are used all over the world is because the British Empire? Think about it, at one point 1/4 of the world's population was under British rule. Once the British Empire collapsed, the countries that were left behind adopted British culture such as football (American soccer), soccer, and driving on the left-hand side of the road. Why not adopt the use of the Land Rover as well.
    Well, that and they used to make an ultra-simple vehicle that was pretty hard to kill. Modern land rovers should not be compared with those old simple vehicles. It's like saying a modern jeep of a different model has anything (mechanically) to do with the original.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Think about it.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, that and they used to make an ultra-simple vehicle that was pretty hard to kill. Modern land rovers should not be compared with those old simple vehicles. It's like saying a modern jeep of a different model has anything (mechanically) to do with the original.
    Right right. This would just explain why Land Rover enthusiasts can claim that 70% of Land Rovers made are still being used. When it's all you have, you're going to do everything you can to keep it running. Look at Cuba. There's not a concentration of running, driving, American 1950's made vehicles like Cuba anywhere else in the world. It's all they have, so they keep them running. This, added with the older Land Rovers simplicity (no air suspension or any of that BS), means that there's going to be a few left. Just my $0.02. Land Rover enthusiasts are a different breed (another reason why I chose not to buy one). Look at the problems rcharrette had with his, yet he still said he loves it. Doesn't make much sense to me. Goofy folks. You can almost compare them to hybrid car drivers.

  36. #36
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    : ) I loved the British Empire stuff... I can just about remember when the Atlas was covered pink with our mighty Empire - alas, those days have ended.

    I still can't agree with the view that the modern Land Rover is a less reliable vehicle than the older models. If anyone's really interested in seeing what people do with their vehicles, old and new / modified or not, check this link out... some great travelling stories to read:

    http://www.gobeyond.landrover.com/gobeyond/

    Now I'm off to bash some hybrid car drivers for their hemp shirts : )

  37. #37
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    What don't you realize about the connection between street reliability and offroading and all that nonsense?

    These things simply don't cut it on the street, when people rely on them for transport.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    What don't you realize about the connection between street reliability and offroading and all that nonsense?

    These things simply don't cut it on the street, when people rely on them for transport.

    I have no beef with you Jerk Chicken... You are entitled to your view, and I to mine.

    What you don't realize is that I am a Land Rover owner and have been for some while. I have had many friends also owning Land Rover's as we live out in the countryside (Disco's, Freelanders, Range Rovers and Defenders). I can accept that some people don't like them - but as for your statement "they don't cut it on the street", I simply disagree.

    For example, my latest drive is a Freelander Sport, designed with an 18" wheel - Although the Freelander is a fine 'soft' off-roader - my model with the 18" wheels would make an appaling off-roader. It has been designed as road going 4x4. The suspension is harder than the normal Freelander and lowered by 30mm to prevent body roll (and yes, this is a standard build model - not one I've tinkered with).

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondhead
    BTW here's a link about Land Rover's last place J.D. power rating http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/10/l...quality-study/
    Ouch!!! That's pretty bad.

  40. #40
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw1970
    What you don't realize is that I am a Land Rover owner.
    People may be more perceptive than you think. Rationalization is easy to spot.
    Last edited by Jayem; 01-06-2009 at 08:49 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    People may be more perceptive than you think. Rationalization is easy to spot.
    Thanks for the pseudo-psychology lesson... I'm sure this is helping the OP no end.

    OP - if you haven't been frightened away by the posts... check out some Land Rover forums where you'll find some insightful feedback. I'm sure you'll find most Land Rover owners are very honest about what works and doesn't work with their cars.

    As I said in my earlier very measured responses - you will find good and bad Land Rovers. I hope these links are of some help to you.

    http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/

    http://www.landrovernet.com/

    http://www.lro.com/

  42. #42
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    OP - you also asked about carrying a bike with the Disco...

    http://www.pendle-bike.co.uk/nulldet...scovery%20Rack

    I used to use a similar version by Pendle on a Suzuki Jeep and was very impressed with the quality of the bike rack. Nowadays, I carry the bike in the back of my Freelander.

  43. #43
    i call it a kaiser blade
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    although land rover makes claims about how its vehicles are still on the road, that applies to fleet, military, and foreign market vehicles (really the defender 90 and 110 series) and no such rovers have been sold in america for over a decade now. and those vehicles are in a variety of states of repair, from pristine 110 4-doors used by british power companies to some rusted out bucket with twine holding the exhaust on bounding down a s. african ranch.

    the same can be said of land cruisers.

    but then to extend that to consumer vehicles that are full of computers and gadgets like the discovery or range rover is absurd.

    they're bad vehicles with terrible electronics and quality.

    and the defender, diesel, manual transmission is the only vehicle the company knows how to make, because it's essentially unchanged over almost 40 years and they finally managed to get it right.

  44. #44
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    I remember when small amounts of the 90 and 110 were released in the US and there was a dealer profit margin added. Now I'm in Germany and I've seen more than just a few like in the US, and typically, they are rusted out hulks, with that cream colored paint and the rust stains running down the side. I've seen the hanging exhausts, which is probably better than an exhaust that runs the black soot right out back instead of diffusing it.

  45. #45
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    Every Disco I've seen has been either pristine on road condition or a clunker. A few have actually have some high mileage on them, somewhere around 200k.

    OP: If you're not interested in back seats then why get an SUV? IMHO, if you're not planning to haul any people a truck has a lot more utility. You can just throw the bike in the bed and you're good to go, you don't have to worry about mud or mildew.

    Seems like the topic has shifted to reliability too. Well, its going to be hard to be Toyota trucks. 80s Four Runners and Tacomas (that aren't really tacomas) are the jackpot, I've seen so many that are past 300k and still going strong. Look at any guerrillas, militants, terrorist videos and its pretty much guaranteed you're going to see one of the toyota trucks. Related, anyone see TopGears "Killing a Toyota?"

  46. #46
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    Toyota Hilux - an amazing vehicle... Yep, I've seen Top Gear trying and failing badly to kill it! I'm impressed

  47. #47
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    Even if Toyota is slipping, I would pick one of their bad ones over another LR.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw1970
    Toyota Hilux - an amazing vehicle... Yep, I've seen Top Gear trying and failing badly to kill it! I'm impressed
    I saw that too. Too bad you can't get that Toyota with the diesel here in the states.

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