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  1. #1
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    HT 4WD truck?

    I'm looking for a good 4wd truck that does not have rear suspension. I figure I should learn how to drive off road without any rear suspension since it will force me to become a better driver and pick my lines more carefully.

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    TNC
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    That's just mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I'm looking for a good 4wd truck that does not have rear suspension. I figure I should learn how to drive off road without any rear suspension since it will force me to become a better driver and pick my lines more carefully.

    Any ideas?
    Funny, but very mean. I still think the best analogy is the hardtail dirt motorcycle. We could even get the Discovery Channel to enlist the American Chopper boys to build it...since they obviously know nothing about suspension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Funny, but very mean. I still think the best analogy is the hardtail dirt motorcycle. We could even get the Discovery Channel to enlist the American Chopper boys to build it...since they obviously know nothing about suspension.
    Yes, I am extremely sarcastic today. I was thinking about the car analogy as a way to explain the reason for FS to my bro-in-law so he wouldn't buy a HT (just because it was what he was used to). Can you imagine what a HT car would ride like? Or you could take it a step up and have a thudbuster, just like the covered wagons had seats on leaf springs.

    I'm just tired of the purist mentality. HTs are not better, and there is really no point in making it more difficult for yourself. Ride a unicycle if you're into masochism.

    BTW: I own two HTs, and I do ride them both. I'm saying that, if someone is going to own one bike, it should be FS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    BTW: I own two HTs, and I do ride them both. I'm saying that, if someone is going to own one bike, it should be FS.

    In general, I'm inclined to agree with you. However if someone has less than $1000 to spend on a mountain bike, I'd point them towards a nicer hardtail rather than a fire-road only FS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I'm just tired of the purist mentality. HTs are not better, and there is really no point in making it more difficult for yourself. Ride a unicycle if you're into masochism.

    .
    I'm tired of the slack-ass "I need FS" mentality myself, nor do I agree that they're always better but I'm sick of beating a dead horse, enjoy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPDu4ea
    In general, I'm inclined to agree with you. However if someone has less than $1000 to spend on a mountain bike, I'd point them towards a nicer hardtail rather than a fire-road only FS
    Yes, I should have stipulated that cost was a limiting factor. Under a grand and you can get a HT with good components. Over a grand and you can start looking at FS rigs.

    What bothers me is that someone will post "Looking for a new bike. $1500 to spend". If the person is a new rider, then half the responses will be in favor of a HT. "It's so you will learn to be a good rider, learn to pick your lines carefully." First, I do not believe this is true. You learn to pick your lines whether you have a HT or four inches on the rear. Secondly, how many newbies have been discouraged by being bounced all over the place for no good reason?

    Why is it that, in this day and age when we have ultra good platform technology, there are still plenty of HT holdouts?

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    Mountain Cycle San Andreas - you're f-ing kidding right?!
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    slack-ass
    You've made a pun, and I'll bet you didn't realize it.

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    The problem with that analogy is that you can suck up bumps by standing and flexing at the knees and elbows when you ride a bike. Not so when you're sitting in a truck. And not all trails are rocky ones either. FS, especially over 3 or 4 inches, is overkill for a lot of things.

    FWIW, my main ride is FS but I do appreciate taking a spin on a rigid from time to time.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jugdish
    Mountain Cycle San Andreas - you're f-ing kidding right?!
    Uh, what are you trying to start, a fight over how much suspension is too much or the brand of my bike?

    And I also ride a '96 Rocky Mountain Equipe 2X7 with a fork that is basically locked up so there is no suspension.

    And I ride a Kona Hoss. In fact, I probably put as many miles on the Hoss as I do the San Andreas.

    You, my friend, seriously need to take a deep breath and chill.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dir-T
    The problem with that analogy is that you can suck up bumps by standing and flexing at the knees and elbows when you ride a bike. Not so when you're sitting in a truck. And not all trails are rocky ones either. FS, especially over 3 or 4 inches, is overkill for a lot of things.

    FWIW, my main ride is FS but I do appreciate taking a spin on a rigid from time to time.
    Right. And besides, the HT vs. FS debate really boils down to personal preferance. I have 2 HTs right now, but one is getting swapped out for a 6" fully very shortly. Do I really think that HTs are unquestionably better? Nope. Both have their pros and cons. I happen to like HTs for most of my riding (technical East Coast singletrack), but I definatly see the merits of a FS too. That's why I'm getting one. If I could only have one bike, it would be a HT though. That's because I like HTs. If you would rather ride a FS, ride one and enjoy it.

    Oh, and Guyechka, that first post was hillarious.

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    My first real MTB was a HT, mainly due to cost. I rode it until it cracked, then i went for an NRS.

    But what i found to be the most useful for skill development and picking lines was racing. When somebody pulls away from you because you hit a few too many roots, it really helps you think about picking faster lines. I still need lots of practice.

    You don't need to race, just follow somebody who does have skills.

    It takes more than three inches of travel for you to not lose speed over rough stuff. You can still learn all the same lessons on a FS bike. It could be less discouraging, as the consequences for picking a bad line are lessened.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Right. And besides, the HT vs. FS debate really boils down to personal preferance. I have 2 HTs right now, but one is getting swapped out for a 6" fully very shortly. Do I really think that HTs are unquestionably better? Nope. Both have their pros and cons. I happen to like HTs for most of my riding (technical East Coast singletrack), but I definatly see the merits of a FS too. That's why I'm getting one. If I could only have one bike, it would be a HT though. That's because I like HTs. If you would rather ride a FS, ride one and enjoy it.

    Oh, and Guyechka, that first post was hillarious.
    You are gettin a FS bike? That is so contradictory!
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Uh, what are you trying to start, a fight over how much suspension is too much or the brand of my bike?

    And I also ride a '96 Rocky Mountain Equipe 2X7 with a fork that is basically locked up so there is no suspension.

    And I ride a Kona Hoss. In fact, I probably put as many miles on the Hoss as I do the San Andreas.

    You, my friend, seriously need to take a deep breath and chill.
    You go trolling and sometimes you'll get a bite...
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    HT holdouts?
    Poor choice of words here. I think you mean "strong preferences towards a HT". Resident *holdout* since 1988 (not riding 1988 technology). Have a good day.
    Tuff Schist

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__
    You are gettin a FS bike? That is so contradictory!
    Only if I like it...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Only if I like it...
    Wojcik "Solution" is the FS to get.

    I'm still surprised that in eight years in CT I've only seen one of his bikes. As a matter of fact, the other day I saw my second IF (first one I've seen being ridden). What gives with no one on the east coast riding bikes that were made on the east coast for the east coast?

  18. #18
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    Who cares. Ride what you like.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim311
    Who cares. Ride what you like.
    No way! I get to tell everyone what to ride!

    Look, I'm not saying that everyone has to ride a FS. I'm just saying that those who insist on HTs need to accept the fact that FS is here to stay.

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    Funny thing is most trucks actually have decent suspensions in the rear, its the fronts that lag. Contrary to what the car commercials want you to think the minimal IFS wheel travel on most trucks just sucks offroad! I wound up cutting the IFS off my old yota and going to a solid axle for just that reason. Too bad there aren't more choices for new trucks with decent front suspension these days.

    Not that anyone cares! Just thought I'd indulge your sarcasm a little.

    Kevo

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I'm looking for a good 4wd truck that does not have rear suspension. I figure I should learn how to drive off road without any rear suspension since it will force me to become a better driver and pick my lines more carefully.

    Any ideas?


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  22. #22
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    I've been riding a FS for the last 9 years and I just ordered a hardtail. Why? Cause I wanted something different. I want something that climbs well and gives me a different ride. Not better not worse, just different. I suggested a hardtail in the post your referring to because getting an FS bike with crappy components vs. getting a nice hardtail with awesome components can make a world of difference. The shifting will be crisper and the bike (hopefully) will be in the shop less because the components are superior. Which will equal more ride time. There is some merit to having a bike with nice components otherwise we would all be riding Huffys! It's not like I suggested getting a fully ridged single speed (btw, I want one of those too!).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyMonkey
    I've been riding a FS for the last 9 years and I just ordered a hardtail. Why? Cause I wanted something different. I want something that climbs well and gives me a different ride. Not better not worse, just different. I suggested a hardtail in the post your referring to because getting an FS bike with crappy components vs. getting a nice hardtail with awesome components can make a world of difference. The shifting will be crisper and the bike (hopefully) will be in the shop less because the components are superior. Which will equal more ride time. There is some merit to having a bike with nice components otherwise we would all be riding Huffys! It's not like I suggested getting a fully ridged single speed (btw, I want one of those too!).
    I don't think I was referring to your post in another thread. I was referring to an amalgam of posts that tended to push people toward HTs for the sake of their simplicity and (more importantly) difficulty in riding (hence making a beginner better faster). My point is that FS is not, in any way, cheating. Just like it wouldn't make much sense to have a car with front suspension only, so too does it not make sense to have a bike with front suspension only. Of course, as someone pointed out, you can still use your arms and legs as suspension. Good point, but it still means you're going to be more tired at the end of a ride.

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