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  1. #1
    RIS
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    How to get tickets:

    Everybody likes to spend their money on different things. Many of us like to spend it on mountain biking, food, housing, and so on. But some people like to spend their money on traffic tickets. Seems silly to me, but there is a segment of society that goes way out of their way to achieve this goal. Here are some things that have worked for them:

    1) Lie to the police:

    Cops don't like doing paperwork any more than anyone else. If you do something wrong, and the officer can get you to correct the problem with a warning, it works out better for everyone. But if you lie, you've pretty much communicated that a warning won't work.

    2) Illegally alter your vehicle to give the police reason to stop and cite you at any time, even if you're not currently committing any moving violations:

    Common methods to achieve this goal are things like illegal window tint, fart-can mufflers, ginormous stickers on the windows, and blue-colored exterior light bulbs. Other successful methods include tires hanging out of the fenders, jacked up trucks without proper mud flaps, and tinted license plate covers.

    3) Commit violations that attract unneccessary attention to yourself:

    Everybody violates traffic laws. You are not a special and unique snowflake. So how do you make sure that your violations stand out enough to convince the officer to choose you over all the rest? Drive at night with your fog lights on and your headlights off. Speed more than everyone else. Don't signal your lane changes. Serenade everyone within a half mile with your favorite CD of the sounds of beating a wet refrigerator box with a tennis racket, accompanied by lyrics involving drug dealing, killing police officers, and/or referring to the women in your life (moms, sisters, daughters, baby-mamas, etc) in vulgar biological terms.





    And if all else fails, combine as many elements as you can. For example, driving 25 mph over the speed limit slicing and dicing through traffic without signalling your lane changes, using your fog lights instead of your headlights, waking people up three blocks away with your stereo and fart-can muffler, while driving with blue marker lamp bulbs, illegal window tint, and no front license plate. Then, when the officer stops you, claim that the window tint, blue light bulbs, and muffler are stock, the car never came with a front license plate bracket, you forgot to turn your headlights on, you only had the stereo turned up to "2", and you thought that the residential neighborhood speed limit was 50 mph.

    You may have to work hard at it. I've seen some pretty spectacular violations result in only warnings, including doing half a dozen 90 mph wheelies in a 45 mph zone right in front of a cop, and a buddy that got a warning after a state trooper got a radar lock on him at something in excess of 160 mph in a clearly posted 55 mph zone.
    Last edited by RIS; 02-24-2011 at 11:40 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Everybody likes to spend their money on different things. Many of us like to spend it on mountain biking, food, housing, and so on. But some people like to spend their money on traffic tickets. Seems silly to me, but there is a segment of society that goes way out of their way to achieve this goal. Here are some things that have worked for them:

    1) Lie to the police:

    Cops don't like doing paperwork any more than anyone else. If you do something wrong, and the officer can get you to correct the problem with a warning, it works out better for everyone. But if you lie, you've pretty much communicated that a warning won't work.

    2) Illegally alter your vehicle to give the police reason to stop and cite you at any time, even if you're not currently committing any moving violations:

    Common methods to achieve this goal are things like illegal window tint, fart-can mufflers, ginormous stickers on the windows, and blue-colored exterior light bulbs. Other successful methods include tires hanging out of the fenders, jacked up trucks without proper mud flaps, and tinted license plate covers.

    3) Commit violations that attract unneccessary attention to yourself:

    Everybody violates traffic laws. You are not a special and unique snowflake. So how do you make sure that your violations stand out enough to convince the officer to choose you over all the rest? Drive at night with your fog lights on and your headlights off. Speed more than everyone else. Don't signal your lane changes. Serenade everyone within a half mile with your favorite CD of the sounds of beating a wet refrigerator box with a tennis racket, accompanied by lyrics involving drug dealing, killing police officers, and/or referring to the women in your life (moms, sisters, daughters, baby-mamas, etc) in vulgar biological terms.





    And if all else fails, combine as many elements as you can. For example, driving 25 mph over the speed limit slicing and dicing through traffic without signalling your lane changes, using your fog lights instead of your headlights, waking people up three blocks away with your stereo and fart-can muffler, while driving with blue marker lamp bulbs, illegal window tint, and no front license plate. Then, when the officer stops you, claim that the window tint, blue light bulbs, and muffler are stock, the car never came with a front license plate bracket, you forgot to turn your headlights on, you only had the stereo turned up to "2", and you thought that the residential neighborhood speed limit was 50 mph.

    You may have to work hard at it. I've seen some pretty specacular violations result in only warnings, including doing half a dozen 90 mph wheelies in a 45 mph zone right in front of a cop, and a buddy that got a warning after a state trooper got a radar lock on him at something in excess of 160 mph in a clearly posted 55 mph zone.
    Seems like a wealth of information here. So what does one do when they have actually received a ticket? Just got pulled over for having the bike rack blocking the plate (wife's car) on a segment of I-17. Cruse control was set at 75 and a large red Dodge was passing in the right. I got flagged cause I decided not to run when I saw him pull out of the center median. Make it worse my daughter has an accident in the back seat while we were stopped. Not a fun trip thanks to the AZ HWY patrol.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Seems like a wealth of information here. So what does one do when they have actually received a ticket?
    Well, there are probably several options listed on the back of the citation, that include something like:

    1) Admit and pay: If you do not contest the citation, you can usually just mail in a check, and it's a done deal.

    2) Contest the citation: If you think that you are innocent, you can request a court date. The judge will review your side and the officer's side, and make a decision.

    There may be other options too, like giving an explanation without contesting the citation, or having a trial by affidavit.

    Just got pulled over for having the bike rack blocking the plate (wife's car) on a segment of I-17. Cruse control was set at 75 and a large red Dodge was passing in the right. I got flagged cause I decided not to run when I saw him pull out of the center median. Make it worse my daughter has an accident in the back seat while we were stopped.
    Yeah, it's probably best that you didn't try running from the police with your daughter in the car, especially over a minor equipment violation. Standard procedures at that point probably involve a felony take-down at gunpoint. Officers are people too, and it can be very hard on us emotionally, to have to place children with the state child protective services division after arresting their parents.

    It can also be a good idea to have everyone in the car go to the bathroom BEFORE breaking the law.

    Not a fun trip thanks to the AZ HWY patrol.
    Not sure I understand. Did the Arizona Highway Patrol create the equipment violation, or was that you?
    Last edited by RIS; 02-24-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Not sure I understand. Did the Arizona Highway Patrol create the equipment violation, or was that you?
    Ticket issued was for speeding. When we passed the patrol car I was being overtaken in the right lane by a large dodge ram truck. My speed was set at 75 with the cruse control.

    Once we passed the officer the Dodge truck accelerated and got in the left lane ahead of me. I pulled to the right behind a large FedEx truck going down hill and slowed to let the officer by chasing the truck. He looked prepared to go after the truck, yet got behind me instead pulling me over. Ticket issued was for 85+. My cruse control must be very faulty for it to be over 10MPH off, that or the radar locked on the larger faster moving vehicle.

    Equipment violation would be in regards to a Thule T2 hitch rack blocking the plate. That is obvious once I took a look at it with the officer. Rack is now off the car and back on the Jeep where it does not block the plate. With the Thule rack I'm not sure there is a viable solution as the rack folds with out any place of mounting the plate. The bike rack was a warning. I'd rather have gotten a fix it ticket or similar to having a moving violation on record. As I'm 5 hours out it appears as if I'm SOL on this issue.

  5. #5
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    Crux, I have that rack too and wondered if APD would pull me over just for that. Did you have your bikes on it or was it in the raised position?

    Sorry about the bad luck, dude.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Ticket issued was for speeding. When we passed the patrol car I was being overtaken in the right lane by a large dodge ram truck. My speed was set at 75 with the cruse control.

    Once we passed the officer the Dodge truck accelerated and got in the left lane ahead of me. I pulled to the right behind a large FedEx truck going down hill and slowed to let the officer by chasing the truck. He looked prepared to go after the truck, yet got behind me instead pulling me over. Ticket issued was for 85+. My cruse control must be very faulty for it to be over 10MPH off, that or the radar locked on the larger faster moving vehicle.

    I'd rather have gotten a fix it ticket or similar to having a moving violation on record. As I'm 5 hours out it appears as if I'm SOL on this issue.
    I'm not an attorney, so I'm not going to give legal advise. But I can tell you what I'd do if I were in your situation.

    If I thought I was guilty of speeding, I'd just pay the ticket. And if you were even 1 mph over the limit, technically you were speeding, so I wouldn't try to argue the difference between 76-77 mpn and 85+ mph, as it's pointless.

    Me personally, I probably wouldn't cite unless the offender were doing 20 mph or more over the limit, but that's just me.

    And please understand that many people attempt to argue against speeding tickets by claiming that they had their cruise control set at "X" mph. True or not, it sounds really lame in court, especially when it's about the 10,000th time his Honor has heard it.

    I don't know what kind of vehicle you have, but over-sized tires can cause the speedometer to read low, which can also get you a speeding ticket. It's not a legit defense, I'm just throwing it out there for your consideration.

    As far as the "big red Dodge" defense, I don't know any cop that would pick a vehicle other than the fastest one out of the bunch, so I'm telling you up front, that it's going to sound pretty lame in court. If you do want to go that route, you may want to file a request for discovery, to find out what kind of equipment he used to measure your speed. If he paced you, your going to want to request his training records regarding pacing, as well as the vehicle records for the particular patrol vehicle that he was using on that date. If the patrol car had under-sized tires, the speedo had not been calibrated recently, or it's been in the shop 10 times for a funky speedo, you might have a go at it. If it was radar (hardly anybody uses it anymore), you might have a chance, because most radar units have a pretty good beam spread, and the dopler audio tends to pick out the largest target. If it's laser, you're probably toast, as it's extremely accurate in it's aiming (it also gives direction of travel and distance to target). Either way, request the maintenance records for the unit he used, as well as his training records on that specific make and model.
    Last edited by RIS; 02-24-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  7. #7
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    BTW, your original post said that you got pulled over for the bike rack, not speeding.

    It's nice that he gave you a break on the license plate violation.

  8. #8
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    Also, keep in mind that he may not have measured your speed where you think he did. I'm a decent shot, and I have regularly used the laser to bang cars out to over 4000 feet (coming up on a mile away). The operators often express surprise that I could get them that far away.

  9. #9
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    good thread from a perspective i haven't heard before.

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    You should have half a dozen attorneys contacting you that are local to the jurisdiction. They comb the records looking for out of towners to represent. For a few hundred they will usually beat or get reduced a speeding ticket. I have used these guys twice with good success. It's actually cheaper than paying the increased insurance rates over time.

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    I have the Thule T2 hitch rack on a Camry and use it a lot so I keep it on permanently. I drive around with it up all the time and my area crawls with police, often right behind me. They've never seemed to care or else a 13-year-old gold 4-cylinder Toyota just doesn't get their adrenaline pumped enought to bother pulling over in the first place. Now, that I think about it not only does the rack block the plate, the trays probably block parts of the brake lights/turn signals too.

    Problem is that if I drive with it down where I live it'll probably get hit by tailgaters pulling up too fast behind me at redlights, mess up the rack, and then take off.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Me personally, I probably wouldn't cite unless the offender were doing 20 mph or more over the limit, but that's just me.
    That's pretty amusing because sober drivers kill/injure A LOT more people than drug dealers. Like you said, +1mph is illegal. You should resign on the grounds that you took an oath to protect the public and are clearly violating it.
    Hey Butthead, are we gonna die? - Beavis

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by veryavgwhtguy
    You should have half a dozen attorneys contacting you that are local to the jurisdiction. They comb the records looking for out of towners to represent. For a few hundred they will usually beat or get reduced a speeding ticket. I have used these guys twice with good success. It's actually cheaper than paying the increased insurance rates over time.

    The fine for 10 over is probably a lot less than you'll spend on an attorney, and pretty much 100% of the attorneys I've seen who do this kind of work are complete scrubs, just this side of a street wino. You don't need an attorney to get your fine reduced anyway. You can do that yourself- just ask. And even if the fine is reduced, a conviction is a conviction. Eating poo on one speeding citation (especially since it's only 10 over) isn't likely to hurt the insurance rates of the average operator anyway.

    I'd save your money.

  14. #14
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    If you get a speeding ticket, some states will let you take a "Defensive Driver course". Pass successfully and the ticket is waived. It costs about the same as the ticket, but you end up with no points and no insurance increase

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    Quote Originally Posted by BritOnTour
    If you get a speeding ticket, some states will let you take a "Defensive Driver course". Pass successfully and the ticket is waived. It costs about the same as the ticket, but you end up with no points and no insurance increase
    Good point. About 10 years ago, I got stopped in the PRK by CHP troopers three times in about three hours, resulting in two citations. One of them I disposed of through an online class that cost me $20 and took 20 minutes, and the other one I was able to get dismissed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Also, keep in mind that he may not have measured your speed where you think he did. I'm a decent shot, and I have regularly used the laser to bang cars out to over 4000 feet (coming up on a mile away). The operators often express surprise that I could get them that far away.
    I've worked some RF projects including radar and with laser. With the right antenna you can generate a very narrow beam singling out a given target out quite a ways. Regardless I was thinking of contacting the officer and asking if the citation could be dropped. I'm not one to break the law and don't want the hit on our insurance. I know the job of law enforcement is difficult, mind you not first hand, but working as a DoD contractor we did a few special projects with officers on the east coast giving us quite an insight most never will see. Hopefully what we developed will save lives on day. Sorry got a bit off topic. Not sure is a CIV gave you a follow up call if this would help or hurt matters, but thought I'd ask.

    Other option is to suck it up and do the online traffic school.

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    The part I dont understand is getting a ticket for 5 mph over the speed limit but the PO has to do 20 mph over the limit to catch me. How does that help?Fortunately for us the PO is not distracted by typing in the license plate on the laptop while driving or talking on the cellphone either

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    The OP has no prob w/ 20 over the limit, but will gleefully tase a "doper" and smash his face into the ground - WTF -
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    I've worked some RF projects including radar and with laser. With the right antenna you can generate a very narrow beam singling out a given target out quite a ways. Regardless I was thinking of contacting the officer and asking if the citation could be dropped.
    Once a citation is written, it's out of the officer's hands. Police officers have a large amount of discretion in a lot of areas, but this ain't one of them. The best the officer can do is to recommend dropping the citation. It might be better for him to contact the prosecutor's office and speak to the prosecutor on it. He might be able to make a deal to plead out to a non-moving violation instead.
    Last edited by RIS; 02-25-2011 at 01:40 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchD
    The part I dont understand is getting a ticket for 5 mph over the speed limit but the PO has to do 20 mph over the limit to catch me. How does that help?Fortunately for us the PO is not distracted by typing in the license plate on the laptop while driving or talking on the cellphone either
    I've never seen anyone write a ticket for only 5 over. If you got a ticket for only 5 over, you must have done something to make yourself awfully special in the eyes of the officer.

    The last speeding citation I wrote was for 90 mph in a 45 mph zone. At this level of speeding, it becomes a criminal offense (you can go to jail for it). We also generally have a pretty good sense of smell. In this particular case, the operator also had no license, because it had been revoked for a D.U.I. arrest a few weeks earlier. I'll drive as fast as I need to, to protect the rest of society from someone like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    I've never seen anyone write a ticket for only 5 over. If you got a ticket for only 5 over, you must have done something to make yourself awfully special in the eyes of the officer.

    The last speeding citation I wrote was for 90 mph in a 45 mph zone. At this level of speeding, it becomes a criminal offense (you can go to jail for it). We also generally have a pretty good sense of smell. In this particular case, the operator also had no license, because it had been revoked for a D.U.I. arrest a few weeks earlier. I'll drive as fast as I need to, to protect the rest of society from someone like that.
    Hang around the border between Nevada and California or Arizona and California sometime. The local CHP officer I was in a class with last week told us that they target those areas looking especially for rental cars because they usually wont contest the citation.I guess special means having a hertz decal on the back?

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    This thread sucks.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchD
    Hang around the border between Nevada and California or Arizona and California sometime. The local CHP officer I was in a class with last week told us that they target those areas looking especially for rental cars because they usually wont contest the citation.I guess special means having a hertz decal on the back?
    That doesn't make any sense.

    There are 168 hours in a week, and we only work 40 of them. That means that there is better than a 75% chance that if someone contests a citation, we'll get overtime for court, and our overtime is at least time and a half, possibly more. If court occurs at a time that leaves us less than 8 hours before our next shift, our union contract requires that we get paid at least time and a half for the entire next shift too. We'd like for EVERYBODY to contest their citations, so that we can make more money.

    But we don't want to lose in court, so most of us do a pretty good job when we write citations.

    Even if court happens during our regular shift, it's still a bonus for us. It means that we're not on the road taking stupid calls. Instead, we're at the court house. And when we're at the court house, we spend about 90% of our time getting paid to stand by at the court house (texting, surfing the web, whatever), and most of the time, when the defendant sees us, they change their plea to guilty anyway.

    I don't make a decision to cite or not to cite based upon any of the above- I try to do what I think the right thing to do is. But I must admit that if there was some way to predict who was going to contest their citations and who wasn't, I could see how it would be tempting to cite the ones that we thought were going to contest their citations.

    The bottom line is, win or lose, if you contest your citation, you're probably putting extra money in the officer's pocket, and it's probably going to cost you money to do so. I would estimate that only about 1% of the citations that I write are contested anyway.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    That doesn't make any sense.

    There are 168 hours in a week, and we only work 40 of them. That means that there is better than a 75% chance that if someone contests a citation, we'll get overtime for court, and our overtime is at least time and a half, possibly more. If court occurs at a time that leaves us less than 8 hours before our next shift, our union contract requires that we get paid at least time and a half for the entire next shift too. We'd like for EVERYBODY to contest their citations, so that we can make more money.

    But we don't want to lose in court, so most of us do a pretty good job when we write citations.

    Even if court happens during our regular shift, it's still a bonus for us. It means that we're not on the road taking stupid calls. Instead, we're at the court house. And when we're at the court house, we spend about 90% of our time getting paid to stand by at the court house (texting, surfing the web, whatever), and most of the time, when the defendant sees us, they change their plea to guilty anyway.

    I don't make a decision to cite or not to cite based upon any of the above- I try to do what I think the right thing to do is. But I must admit that if there was some way to predict who was going to contest their citations and who wasn't, I could see how it would be tempting to cite the ones that we thought were going to contest their citations.

    The bottom line is, win or lose, if you contest your citation, you're probably putting extra money in the officer's pocket, and it's probably going to cost you money to do so. I would estimate that only about 1% of the citations that I write are contested anyway.
    Does't make sense? The CHP officer I listened to stated that those areas are quote Money making areas for the state endquote.He did not say they were money making areas for the officers.I have spoken with several manufactures representatives that have recieved citations in the last couple years in the border areas for speeding infractions involving less than 5mph over the posted limit.It does appear to be more common with the CHP. Now here in Escondido we have the drivers license checkpoints. Every week we have a checkpoint where you are required to show drivers license, proof of insurance, and vehicle registration(think of Nazi Germany,Papers!).The Escondido PD officer I complained to told me the same thing,These checkpoints are money makers for the city.One guy last week was arrested for suspsion of resisting arrest because he did not roll his window down far enough. He was released after a couple hours but the best part was his passenger was videoing the whole event. I mean really, if they thought he was DUI he wouldnt be taping himself would he?Suspision of resisting arrest,is that like I think you maybe guilty of something so we are going to Rodney King you to see if you will resist? Sorry for the long rant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    That doesn't make any sense.

    There are 168 hours in a week, and we only work 40 of them. That means that there is better than a 75% chance that if someone contests a citation, we'll get overtime for court, and our overtime is at least time and a half, possibly more. ...bla, bla, bla.
    ummm, it would make sense to me if I was a PIG,
    I show up to court, accused doesn't, I get paid a bull$hit amount of $$ - what's not to get?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    This thread just reminds me why I LOVE my Valintine 1 in my X5M.

    130 - 140 all the way to Vegas. Radar, laser whatever it picks it up 360* field of view no tickets everů

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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Once a citation is written, it's out of the officer's hands. Police officers have a large amount of discretion in a lot of areas, but this ain't one of them. The best the officer can do is to recommend dropping the citation. It might be better for him to contact the prosecutor's office and speak to the prosecutor on it. He might be able to make a deal to plead out to a non-moving violation instead.
    Thanks for the insight. I spoke with the officer last night and had an honest conversation with the guy. He informed me with the politics in their office right now dropping tickets is not a popular option. I can understand that, does not mean I agree with it, but I understand. Even though I was hit with radar and the unit was not checked for calibration at the end of his shift fighting this in court would most likely result in paying the fines and being hit with the points. The $$$ is not the issue up front it is the points that I do not want. Does not matter if it is 1 or 3 points like you said earlier eating sh** is still eating sh**.

    Time to take the online class mitigating the points.

    Again thanks for your insight.

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    Meh, a lot (much?) of traffic enforcement in the US is by definition immoral. It's a disaster, what we tolerate as a society on this particular issue. To ponder it, to worry about it, to stress about it, meh, it's not worth it. I cannot recommend enough that ALL cited drivers fight tickets. Clog the beast. Divert the beast. Starve the beast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DWill
    This thread just reminds me why I LOVE my Valintine 1 in my X5M.

    130 - 140 all the way to Vegas. Radar, laser whatever it picks it up 360* field of view no tickets everů
    It'll happen...

    I love laser detectors too. They serve as a "You just got a ticket" indicator. Light travels at 186,000 miles per second. By the time a laser detector has gone off, I've already got a reading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crux
    Thanks for the insight. I spoke with the officer last night and had an honest conversation with the guy. He informed me with the politics in their office right now dropping tickets is not a popular option. I can understand that, does not mean I agree with it, but I understand. Even though I was hit with radar and the unit was not checked for calibration at the end of his shift fighting this in court would most likely result in paying the fines and being hit with the points. The $$$ is not the issue up front it is the points that I do not want. Does not matter if it is 1 or 3 points like you said earlier eating sh** is still eating sh**.

    Time to take the online class mitigating the points.

    Again thanks for your insight.
    No problem, happy to help.

    It still wouldn't hurt to talk to the prosecutor about pleading to a non-moving offense, but the online class certainly would be an expedient way of disposing of the ticket- I've done it.

    If you decide to go that route, you may need to get special permission from the court to take the class, since you're an out-of-state driver. I don't know about Arizona, but the way California's law is written, the classes are only available to people who hold a valid California driver's license, The intent is to prevent unlicensed drivers in California from using the classes to get citaitions off their records, but the law says "California" license, so when I did it (as an out-of-state driver at that time), I had to get permission from the court. I had a valid driver's license, it just wasn't a California driver's license. His Honor saw it my way, and let me take the class anyway.

  31. #31
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    can you get a ticket for riding a DH bike on the street?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    It'll happen...

    I love laser detectors too. They serve as a "You just got a ticket" indicator. Light travels at 186,000 miles per second. By the time a laser detector has gone off, I've already got a reading.
    The cool thing about the V1 is it doesn't have to be pointed at my car to be picked up.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue109
    can you get a ticket for riding a DH bike on the street?
    Something like that has happened...

    My friend's uncle (at least she said) that her uncle was riding over the speed limit downhill (speed limit was 25, he was going maybe 40MPH? on a road bike). Cop pulled him over, and I think he got a ticket. I don't know how that works.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWill
    The cool thing about the V1 is it doesn't have to be pointed at my car to be picked up.
    What you posted applies to Ka, but not to laser.

    Ka will scatter, laser will scatter very little, if at all.

    If you really want to escape laser tickets then you need to find a Lidatek (out of business but there are still used units out there) or a Blinder.

    Signed,

    11 year V1 user


  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itchy The Clown


    What you posted applies to Ka, but not to laser.

    Ka will scatter, laser will scatter very little, if at all.


    Yup. Ka is radar. The "hot spot" (my terminology) is about a seven degree spread on the average radar gun, but there is "scatter" that goes a lot wider than that. It's no surprise that radar detectors could pick them up even if they were aimed at a different vehicle.

    Laser is a whole new ball game. The beam is like a pencil. If three cars were driving door handle to door handle, and I banged the middle one from a half mile away, the laser detectors on the other two wouldn't even twitch. I've cited plenty of people with Valentine 1 laser detectors, and sometimes their own detector didn't go off, because I gunned their front license plate, and their windshield mounted detector was several feet higher, and the beam missed it entirely.

    Plus, as I pointed out, there's nothing to detect until I press the trigger, and at 186,000 miles a second, I'm going to get a reading before you realize that your detector is going off.

    If you really want to escape laser tickets then you need to find a Lidatek (out of business but there are still used units out there) or a Blinder.

    Signed,

    11 year V1 user
    They're probably out of business because they don't work. Time after time they've been tested, and time after time they've failed to do what they are supposed to do. Waste your money on one if you like.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    They're probably out of business because they don't work. Time after time they've been tested, and time after time they've failed to do what they are supposed to do. Waste your money on one if you like.
    Lidatek worked very well. "back in the day" there were many videos of Lidatek equipped cars defeating Malibu cops sporting radar. The V1 would alert, the cop holding the lider gun would be passed, and no ticket. This was reported/video provided numerous times.

    I'm assuming they are out of business because they were selling an illegal product (transmitting on frequencies they were not authorized to transmit on, FCC issues)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Also, keep in mind that he may not have measured your speed where you think he did. I'm a decent shot, and I have regularly used the laser to bang cars out to over 4000 feet (coming up on a mile away). The operators often express surprise that I could get them that far away.
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue? Probably just a coincidence, just like the maximum safe speed for a rusted out 74 Chrysler Cordoba is also the same maximum safe speed for, say, a 2011 BMW 550i, or how the maximum safe speed is also coincidently the same whether you're the only car on the road on a sunny 80 degree day, or there's a lot of traffic on a gloomy 40 degree evening. Or, if you're a 16 or 85 year old man with several recent accidents, vs. a 35 year old with no accidents in ages. Or, how the maximum safe speed drops 10 mph when you cross the border into Iowa vs. Wyoming, despite having arrow-straight roads. The speed limit is just so one-size-fits-all and arbitrary. You say yourself you get tickets, so you defer to your better judgement for the situation, too. It just makes people lose respect for the law, IMHO.

    I am grateful for catching the actual dangerous drivers though- like the drunk going 90 in a 45. Thank you.

    Have you ever issued a ticket for blocking the left lane or other improper lane use?

    DWill: Laser detectors are really only effective at very long ranges. There, the beam has expanded to maybe a few feet wide, and also the small amount of jitter from the cop's hand will make enough of the beam reach the detector that you might get lucky. At closer range, it's primarly just a "you got a ticket" noise-maker, UNLESS you intercept a signal through the windshield of the car in front of you (unlikely, since they usually aim for the plate and headlights as those are the most reflective surfaces). I hear the Laser Interceptor is a pretty good jammer. Go to guys of lidar for a test.

    I speed, but only when it's safe. Never had a speeding ticket. Traffic normally moves along faster than the speed limit though, and I regularly pass through a few speed trap towns, so I got a detector just as a reminder to set the cruise at speed limit when it goes off, after I once got pulled over and let off with a warning (only car on the road for miles, clear, calm, sunny day...gradually accumulated a bit of speed without noticing after cresting a slight hill).

    As far as 130-140 go...I'd only go that fast in the US on straight, well maintained roads with several miles of visibility, fences to keep out animals, and no car in either direction, with newer tires with no repaired punctures and, needless to say, no intersections. Man...a good bimmer though is rock solid at those speeds. No drama. They're truly built for it. On roads where you're encountering other cars, that's just too fast. American drivers suck- it's just too easy to get a license here. If we were really worried about road safety, we'd put our resources into tougher training and licensing standards. Our roads aren't always the best, either.

    Somewhere like this though, is the perfect spot to see those kinds of speeds. Go 90 or so until you catch the trucks and the oncoming car goes by, nail it, and go all out until you approach the next cars.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How to get tickets:-straight-away.jpg  

    Last edited by @dam; 03-01-2011 at 12:39 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue? Probably just a coincidence, just like the maximum safe speed for a rusted out 74 Chrysler Cordoba is also the same maximum safe speed for, say, a 2011 BMW 550i, or how the maximum safe speed is also coincidently the same whether you're the only car on the road on a sunny 80 degree day, or there's a lot of traffic on a gloomy 40 degree evening.

    I speed, but only when it's safe. Never had a speeding ticket. Traffic normally moves along faster than the speed limit though, and I regularly pass through a few speed trap towns, so I got a detector just as a reminder to set the cruise at speed limit when it goes off, after I once got pulled over and let off with a warning (only car on the road for miles, clear, calm, sunny day...gradually accumulated a bit of speed without noticing after cresting a slight hill).

    As far as 130-140 go...I'd only go that fast in the US on straight, well maintained roads with several miles of visibility, fences to keep out animals, and no car in either direction, with newer tires with no repaired punctures and, needless to say, no intersections. Man...a good bimmer though is rock solid at those speeds. No drama. They're truly built for it. On roads where you're encountering other cars, that's just too fast. American drivers suck- it's just too easy to get a license here. If we were really worried about road safety, we'd put our resources into tougher training and licensing standards. Our roads aren't always the best, either.
    Well, unless you are going faster than 85, which I would say is pretty unsafe in most if not all conditions (due to things you just can't control), you will get a ticket in AZ for "driving in excess of what the conditions warrent", in other words if the speed limit on the highway is 65 and you are going 80, you will get a ticket for going faster than the conditions warrent, not because you were going above the limit. If you are going 75 on the highway (posted limit) and it's on snow and ice, you can get a ticket for going in excess of what the conditions call for.

    But, on to the second part of what you said, that is fine and dandy for you. Do all the drivers have the same control (and capability) as you and your car? Obviously no, so what you want are different rules for different people. So now we'll inherently make it more dangerous by having some cars going much faster than others. Yes it sucks that we have to have laws and rules that are due to the lowest common denominator, but that's the cost of living in a society. When you claim that you *can* go faster in your 550i and be "just as safe", that's possible, but it's not your right to do so, and if you are endangering other people (due to asymetrical speeds) you don't have a right to endanger those other people. You also have to justify the additional cost to the society of asymetrical enforcement.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  39. #39
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    Yes. If everyone exercises good lane control, and cops enforce THOSE rules, speed differential isn't too big a deal. It works just dandy on the autobahn- good safety, and speed limits are only applied when conditions warrant it (severe weather, traffic or accident ahead, etc.). They're able to tell when a driver or vehicle is exceeding it's limits or endanger others, rather than just ah "ooops...10 over. Time to pay the speeding tax". Common sense.

    I think the '74 rustbucket going the speed limit is endangering more people going that speed than the bimmer or sports car going 10-15 over. They just don't have the brakes and handling to be safe at speed, let alone the tech like ABS, stability control, high performance tires, performance-oriented suspension, brake assist, dynamic brake force distribution, high-intensity headlights, radar-based cruise etc.

    If you're the only car on the road on a bright, clear, warm day going 10 over, you're ticket won't be for speed too fast for conditions. If you go the speed limit on ice, you may well. If you go the speed limit at night, or on a cloudy day, you won't. The point is it isn't one-size fits-all. Limits are arbitrary.

    BTW- I don't have a 550i, but it's a benchmark. It's crash-test scores blow everything else out of the water, and it's a very fast car, loaded with safety features, and has great handling (although less steering feel than in last year's 5)
    Last edited by @dam; 03-02-2011 at 02:05 PM.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam

    BTW- I don't have a 550i, but it's a benchmark. It's crash-test scores blow everything else out of the water, and it's a very fast car, loaded with safety features, and has great handling (although less steering feel than in last year's 5)


    What about the car it hits?

  41. #41
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    Read the other 90% of the post. Most of it is about a modern vehicle's enhanced ability to avoid accidents.

  42. #42
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    I smell so much gloating from cops in this thread. Public safety, not self righteousness or fulfilling past aggression on others.

    Kind of like a abortionist say "Dude, I just took out three babies today, I'm pumped!"

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Everybody likes to spend their money on different things. Many of us like to spend it on mountain biking, food, housing, and so on. But some people like to spend their money on traffic tickets. Seems silly to me, but there is a segment of society that goes way out of their way to achieve this goal. Here are some things that have worked for them:

    1) Lie to the police:

    Cops don't like doing paperwork any more than anyone else. If you do something wrong, and the officer can get you to correct the problem with a warning, it works out better for everyone. But if you lie, you've pretty much communicated that a warning won't work.

    2) Illegally alter your vehicle to give the police reason to stop and cite you at any time, even if you're not currently committing any moving violations:

    Common methods to achieve this goal are things like illegal window tint, fart-can mufflers, ginormous stickers on the windows, and blue-colored exterior light bulbs. Other successful methods include tires hanging out of the fenders, jacked up trucks without proper mud flaps, and tinted license plate covers.

    3) Commit violations that attract unneccessary attention to yourself:

    And if all else fails, combine as many elements as you can.
    there is option 4:
    Insult them when the officer approaches you

    Such insults can include:
    -Shouldn't you be hanging out at a donut shop?
    -Don't you have real criminals to catch?
    -What? Gotta meet the quota? (because you been at the donut shop too many times??)
    etc... be creative.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itchy The Clown


    What you posted applies to Ka, but not to laser.

    Ka will scatter, laser will scatter very little, if at all.

    If you really want to escape laser tickets then you need to find a Lidatek (out of business but there are still used units out there) or a Blinder.

    Signed,

    11 year V1 user

    My V1 has picked up scattered laser through the windshield of a vehicle in front of me, saving me from a sure speeding violation in three instances. So it is not impossible for a laser detector to protect you from a ticket.

    EDIT Full disclosure, I also have received three speeding tickets from Laser since using V1.
    Haven't been caught on radar, though.

    Signed,
    10 Year V1 user
    Last edited by redcon1; 03-02-2011 at 09:37 AM.

  45. #45
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    I got out of a ticket last week. Traveling to Austin for work. In the company car wearing a shirt and tie. Was doing 77 or 78 (flowing with traffic) in a 70, it dropped to 65. I noticed the cop pull out, and I was in the right lane before his lights were on. The freeway was busy so I elected to exit and pull into the first available parking lot. Blinker on the entire time.

    Officer: Is this your vehicle?
    Me: No sir, company car
    O: Who do you work for?
    Me: (company)
    O: The speed limit drops to 65, I need you to pay more attention
    Me: Yes sir
    O: You're only getting a warning today, I will be right back (runs license)
    O: Drive safe
    Me: Thank you, sir.

    That's how it's done kiddies. Not a fail safe. I was in a boring car, dressed fairly conservative and took the officers well being into consideration.

  46. #46
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    Yep.

    Courtesy goes a long way. I've been pulled over three times in the last year and have never gotten a ticket.

    That from a 19 year old....
    Those who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither. - Ben Franklin

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    i got a ticket for doing 40 in a 35 at 12:30 am on a back road when I was 17.... talk about BS. I contested the ticket and just got 6 months probation meaning if I got another ticket I'd have to deal with both tickets. was pretty easy to get through that though. I was told by many friends, teachers, and adults at the time to contest the ticket and this is what will happen. worked out like a charm.

    you should do this and contest the ticket, especially if you have a clean record.

    this was local pd though if that makes a difference

  48. #48
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    My number one all-time, favorite way to get a ticket is to blow over a hill at 65mph in a 35mph zone into a speed-trap and lockup all four wheels briefly when you see the motorcycle cop diving to the side of the road thinking you're about to crash spectacularly.

    Smoothly pull to the curb and receive a ticket with only two words being said the whole time (by the cop); "Drive safely." LOL. I had that one coming. Nothing to do but pay up and think about driving more carefully.

    I have some other favorite traffic encounters with police but most of those did NOT result in citations for various reasons. Most cops I've ever encountered were pretty cool - often with kind of a "older brother" thing going on - but most aren't d*cks. There have been a couple notable exceptions but that's going to happen with any group.

    Here in Metro-Atlanta, the various state traffic enforcement authorities are definitely more interested in revenue enhancement than public safety on our highways. And don't even think about going to traffic court unless you've got multiple independent witnesses ready to swear the cop is lying, Traffic court judges here don't want to hear explanations or excuses and will throw the book at anyone wasting their time. Just saying...

  49. #49
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    "maximum safe" != "legal"

    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue? Probably just a coincidence, just like the maximum safe speed for a rusted out 74 Chrysler Cordoba is also the same maximum safe speed for, say, a 2011 BMW 550i, or how the maximum safe speed is also coincidently the same whether you're the only car on the road on a sunny 80 degree day, or there's a lot of traffic on a gloomy 40 degree evening.
    Vehicle to vehicle, sure. But have Ken Block driving the Cordoba and a texting dimwit behind the wheel of the 550, and the equation changes. It's ultimately moot because speeding violations are quantifiable as "MPH over the legal limit" and not "maximum safe speed".

  50. #50
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    ANY law that makes many, majority, or most of citizens infracting or breaking the law is by definition immoral. Speed limits, or at least minor infractions of said (5-20 mph over) in most cases are certainly that.

    If LE spent its time on managing the flow of traffic (left lane campers), clamping down on big rigs, and focusing on truly egregious driving, the roads would be much safer and there would be much less angst against LE.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue?
    They don't. You're only seeing the tip of the iceberg:

    Over my last few shifts, I've gone hunting (with other officers) for a drug dealer that's been shooting up town with an AK-47, assisted a rookie with his first domestic violence arrest, responded with medics to an 88 year old man that injured himself falling out of his bed, made four arrests of the same 51 year old toothless druggie prostitute, responded with fire to a kitchen fire, drove 120 mph to a mass bar fight involving about 150 people, assisted brother officers with a few warrant arrests, shut down a few loud drunken parties, dealt with numerous homeless druggie idiots, assisted a senior officer with a D.U.I. arrest, covered my brother officers on numerous traffic stops and domestic violence calls, patrolled over 100 miles a night, and did one traffic stop that resulted in citing the driver for driving without a driver's license. I also cited the driver for illegal window tint after they lied to me- telling me that they had not previously been stopped and warned for the same exact thing that I stopped them for. I did not cite that operator for another violation, because I had already told them that I was not going to cite them for it before I discovered the lie, and I'm a man of my word.

    I am grateful for catching the actual dangerous drivers though- like the drunk going 90 in a 45. Thank you.
    I appreciate that, but it's not needed. It's my job- it's what you pay me (through your tax dollars) to do.

    Have you ever issued a ticket for blocking the left lane or other improper lane use?
    Nah. I've stopped them to check them out if they're driving slow enough to legally justify the stop, because drunk drivers often drive real slow. If they're sober and don't have dope/guns/warrants, I just educate them a little and send them on their way.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue? .
    it is more than just revenue. Many of the traffic stops leads to arrests of individuals whom may have warrants and other things.

    People complain about traffic cops not solving real crime. In reality, they are.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    I appreciate that, but it's not needed. It's my job- it's what you pay me (through your tax dollars) to do.
    I don't know why you do that job nor how you do it year after year. Not that it matters any but I think all beat officers deserve to be very well paid. It should be a high-end job that only the best officers quality for and anyone who can't do it well enough should be chopped or made a detective working simple complaints.

    The criminal justice system in this country is SO broken - it's gotta stink being on the bottom end of that and often being underpaid too. Hats off to you, sir.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tednugent
    it is more than just revenue. Many of the traffic stops leads to arrests of individuals whom may have warrants and other things.

    People complain about traffic cops not solving real crime. In reality, they are.
    Excellent point. I take more dope, guns, and warrants off the street through traffic stops, than by any other way.

    I recovered a stolen vehicle the other night out of a T-stop for a very minor violation. I spotted the guy rolling at night with no lights on, and when I went to stop him, he ran for a few blocks and then bailed. The owner was very happy to get his vehicle back.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    Excellent point. I take more dope, guns, and warrants off the street through traffic stops, than by any other way.
    ...
    Last edited by highdelll; 03-08-2011 at 12:18 AM.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by @dam
    I'm curious...why is it that police forces seem to devote such a huge portion of their time to what generates the most revenue?

    Well, in Canada, more people die in traffic collisions then by murder........so that is why time needs to be devoted to enforcement. I am sure the stats are the same in all of North America.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources"

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS
    I've never seen anyone write a ticket for only 5 over. If you got a ticket for only 5 over, you must have done something to make yourself awfully special in the eyes of the officer.

    The last speeding citation I wrote was for 90 mph in a 45 mph zone. At this level of speeding, it becomes a criminal offense (you can go to jail for it). We also generally have a pretty good sense of smell. In this particular case, the operator also had no license, because it had been revoked for a D.U.I. arrest a few weeks earlier. I'll drive as fast as I need to, to protect the rest of society from someone like that.
    Karma got me Tuesday, I was going to Laughlin and got a ticket for 40 in a 35 mph zone.The fine(Donation) was $95 for regular service or $196 if you did not want points on your record(no defensive driving school needed).The way this stop was set up was on casino drive 5 miles outside of town on a downgrade.The PoPo explained to me that this was strictly a revenue generation enforcement aimed at Californians.There was general disappointment because I had my 3 forms of papers(D/L,Proof of insurance,and current registration) did not have any equipment violations,did not show signs of intoxication.Fortunately it is not a crime( yet) to be white,over 40,being a resident of Calif. otherwise I would probably be out on bail for this heinous crime.I guess I am spoiled by the cops in Mexico, they usually get me for $50 and a 6pack.

  58. #58
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    One quick thing - in New York, at least, it's worth it to ask the court clerk who they would recommend as an attorney - they know who the good ones are.

    I've never received a ticket without my wife being involved, in some way. Coincidence? I think not.

  59. #59
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    I dont trust cops.

    I dont trust people who trust cops.

    Quote Originally Posted by RIS View Post
    Everybody likes to spend their money on different things. Many of us like to spend it on mountain biking, food, housing, and so on. But some people like to spend their money on traffic tickets. Seems silly to me, but there is a segment of society that goes way out of their way to achieve this goal. Here are some things that have worked for them:

    1) Lie to the police:

    Cops don't like doing paperwork any more than anyone else. If you do something wrong, and the officer can get you to correct the problem with a warning, it works out better for everyone. But if you lie, you've pretty much communicated that a warning won't work.

    2) Illegally alter your vehicle to give the police reason to stop and cite you at any time, even if you're not currently committing any moving violations:

    Common methods to achieve this goal are things like illegal window tint, fart-can mufflers, ginormous stickers on the windows, and blue-colored exterior light bulbs. Other successful methods include tires hanging out of the fenders, jacked up trucks without proper mud flaps, and tinted license plate covers.

    3) Commit violations that attract unneccessary attention to yourself:

    Everybody violates traffic laws. You are not a special and unique snowflake. So how do you make sure that your violations stand out enough to convince the officer to choose you over all the rest? Drive at night with your fog lights on and your headlights off. Speed more than everyone else. Don't signal your lane changes. Serenade everyone within a half mile with your favorite CD of the sounds of beating a wet refrigerator box with a tennis racket, accompanied by lyrics involving drug dealing, killing police officers, and/or referring to the women in your life (moms, sisters, daughters, baby-mamas, etc) in vulgar biological terms.





    And if all else fails, combine as many elements as you can. For example, driving 25 mph over the speed limit slicing and dicing through traffic without signalling your lane changes, using your fog lights instead of your headlights, waking people up three blocks away with your stereo and fart-can muffler, while driving with blue marker lamp bulbs, illegal window tint, and no front license plate. Then, when the officer stops you, claim that the window tint, blue light bulbs, and muffler are stock, the car never came with a front license plate bracket, you forgot to turn your headlights on, you only had the stereo turned up to "2", and you thought that the residential neighborhood speed limit was 50 mph.

    You may have to work hard at it. I've seen some pretty spectacular violations result in only warnings, including doing half a dozen 90 mph wheelies in a 45 mph zone right in front of a cop, and a buddy that got a warning after a state trooper got a radar lock on him at something in excess of 160 mph in a clearly posted 55 mph zone.

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    LOL, does that include selling dope out of the evidence locker as well?

    i remember many years ago, in my first job as a civil engineer, we often had projects in a bay area municipality. local public works regulations stipulated that if any work was going to affect the traveled way, an off-duty PD was required as part of the traffic control plan.

    i remember one project; we were working on a saturday. i was off to one side w/ the project drawings, while the construction crew were standing around waiting for some equipment to arrive. the off-duty cop (note: they had to be present in their squad car + uniform, the OT paid for by the company doing the construction i think), chatting up the construction folks, basically bragging about the fancy SUVs he had bought for himself and his wife, "not on his cops salary, and that if they wanted any "stuff", he could hook them up out of the evidence locker". i don't recall any longer the exact slang term he used for "stuff", but i figured out that it probably meant drugs/narcotics. the construction guys figured out that this was a good time to get back to work, and wisely so i think.

    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll View Post
    ...
    94 Specialized Rockhopper

  61. #61
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    Best way to get out of a ticket , you have 20 seconds to make a new friend when you get pulled over.

  62. #62
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    RIS - Many moons ago I took some radar gun training and I remember there being something about the gun being 5* or less off from center of the vehicle it was being used on to be within 2% of accurate. What's the "standard" for laser?



    One of my favorite things to do going into a known radar location is to position a car ahead of me so that I end up in his radar shadow as we hit the spot. This procedure usually gives me a second or two to get the speed of the car down enough to not get a ticket.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RIS View Post

    It can also be a good idea to have everyone in the car go to the bathroom BEFORE breaking the law.

    This comment is even more retarded than the rest of the thread. I take it you don't have small kids..

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