Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van

    At the Chicago Auto Show, Ford apparently announced some upgrades for the Transit Connect van (er, "wagon")... mostly the trendy driver-assist electronic gizmos, but notably, new 2-liter gas and 1.5-liter turbodiesel engines:

    https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-ford-t...for-1822830542

    I know the >2014 version of this van is well thought of by those here who've tried one for bike haulage and camping. While I'll believe the 30 mpg diesel option only when I see it in the showroom, it's interesting to see the marketing direction Ford is taking this vehicle.
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  2. #2
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    I'm sure they are tired of the Ram 1500 ecodiesel "Best in class mpg" commercials. Tired enough they plan to beat the 30mpg rating with the 3.0 Powerstroke Turbodiesel being released in a few months.

    I think the abundance of ecoboost motors is a sign that Ford is not only concerned about CAFE requirements, they also want to placate consumer desire for power with that economy, across all passenger vehicle segments.

    Ex.
    1.6L rated 180lb-ft
    2.7L rated 375lb-ft
    3.5L rated 510lb-ft

    That 1.6L seems anemic, but the torque build fast and stays there in all of the ecoboost motors. My old V6 Escape had about 10lb-ft on my wife's 1.6L, and weighs a few hundred pounds less, but her Escape gets to 60mph about 1.5 seconds quicker, has strong passing power at any speed, and can lug it's ass up a mountain pass without dropping out of overdrive. Press the go pedal, you go, instead of going after a downshift, or two.

    Reality, however, turbo-diesel or not, no one gets 30+mpg that doesn't stay off the highway and out of cities. After verifying that her 1.6L actually does get about 33mpg at 55mph, we average 24.5 with mostly highway driving averaging 75mph.

    I would expect to see possibly two ecoboosts and a powerstroke turbodiesel, along with a few n/a motors for the transit connect in coming years, but I would not suggest the holding of one's breath for fantastic mileage. As slender as it is, it still has a fairly sizeable frontal area, and we all still tend to drive 65+mph. If you want great mileage, you've got to drive like the blue-hair everone is honking at on the highway because their low speed presents a danger to passing vehicles and they are creating their own traffic jam that's raising the stress of everyone around them.
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  3. #3
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    I'd be way more interested in a strong hybrid version. The C-Max and Fusion have pretty dialed hybrid systems but they won't fit bikes and camping gear like a little van.

  4. #4
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    In the UK, virtually all vans are diesel. Almost half the cars too.

  5. #5
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    I drive a 2017 German Transit Connect LWB (Grand Tourneo Connect here in Germany) with a 1.5 TDCi and 6-speed manual and get 35 mpg in mixed driving.

    So the 30 mpg highway sounds low? I wonder if it's the 8-speed auto vs the manual? Or maybe the diesel is different (or calibrated differently for the US)?

    Ford should really bring over the "Custom" to the US... great size in between the Connect and the full Transit.
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  6. #6
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    The difference between manual and auto would definitely account for that. 12-18% deviation is normal in passenger vehicles.
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  7. #7
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    An imperial gallon is different in volume than a US gallon. 35 mpg would be 29 mpg after conversion (.83 imperial gallon to 1 US gal).

    Also the tests are different. US tests are based on a "typical American driving scenario", which is obviously different from a "typical EU driving scenario", considering the difference in roadways.

    Not sure why an 8 speed auto transmission is assumed to be that inefficient. I wouldn't be surprised if a modern 8 spd auto is more efficient than manual, considering it keeps it in the optimal power band better. Plenty of recent evidence supporting this in the past 5 years, with CVTs and such. Ford, I don't know about, but Mazda 6 spd autos rival their manual transmissions well.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    An imperial gallon is different in volume than a US gallon. 35 mpg would be 29 mpg after conversion (.83 imperial gallon to 1 US gal).

    Not sure why an 8 speed auto transmission is assumed to be that inefficient.
    No, I converted my 6.9 l/100km in US gallons.

    Yeah, this new 8 speed should be pretty good.

    My bet is US tune on the diesel, like VW had to do to fix their TDI for emissions.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    The difference between manual and auto would definitely account for that. 12-18% deviation is normal in passenger vehicles.
    I think that was probably true back in the day when autos were really inefficient. Today, not so much, and some modern autos are effectively manual boxes that shift much better than you do.

    Manufacturers published figures on economy are fiction and the computer in the car can be off quite a bit too. The only way to find out what you get is to measure it. Quite easy, I've done it for years.

    Brim the tank and zero the milometer. Next fill, brim it again taking note of the gallons that went in and the miles you got since the last fill. Divide one by the other.

    The book says I should get 74mpg but reality is an average of just over 50 (about 62 US). Big difference.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    In the UK, virtually all vans are diesel. Almost half the cars too.
    In the US, we have tractor trailers constantly moving on the highway system, moving goods from Point A to Point B, not to mention the extensive inter and intra-state airplane traffic, all using Jet-A. I say this because there's only so much of a barrel of crude that can be refined into gasoline and diesel, which creates the see-saw of prices. Use too much diesel, and diesel prices go up with demand, making more gasoline free and prices fall for that fuel. Diesel offers more energy per volume of course, but increasing the number of diesel vehicles significantly in the US is not practical, that said, I'd definitely like to see more diesel options, I just don't think it'll ever become like it is in Yurp.
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  11. #11
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    The government here cannot decide what the heck they want! A few years ago they pushed diesel because petrol fumes were evil. Then they decided diesel particulates were worse so hammered diesel!

    So now they want everyone to buy electric cars or else. When the electric generation and distribution companies saw the government demands for electric car take-up they published figures on how many more power stations and cables would be required to meet them. It was funny.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    In the UK, virtually all vans are diesel. Almost half the cars too.
    I would really like one of these when we move back to the US... not holding my breath.

    Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van-customst.jpg

    Westfalia roof would be cool too

    Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van-ford-transit-custom-transit-custom-m-sport-wellhouse-terrier-camper-van-race-red-very-lo.jpg
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  13. #13
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    Ford really started this trend in the UK years ago with the S-Max. They cleverly identified a gap in the market by realizing that not everyone who needs a larger car with extra seats is happy driving a boring box with four wheels. Having one kid too many doesn't mean you no longer care about style or driving appeal.

    In recent years, I don't think Ford have put a foot wrong on the styling and packaging of their cars. I'd quite like to try a Ford, I've never had one, but the local Ford dealer has a terrible reputation.

    Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van-ford-s-max-diesel-estate-2.0-tdci-210-titanium-sport-5dr-powershift-car-leasing-best-offers.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Ford really started this trend in the UK years ago with the S-Max. They cleverly identified a gap in the market by realizing that not everyone who needs a larger car with extra seats is happy driving a boring box with four wheels. Having one kid too many doesn't mean you no longer care about style or driving appeal.
    It's very amazing to me that they have so many options:
    - B-max
    - C-max
    - S-max
    - Galaxy
    - Transit Courier
    - Transit Connect
    - Transit Custom
    - Transit
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    The government here cannot decide what the heck they want! A few years ago they pushed diesel because petrol fumes were evil. Then they decided diesel particulates were worse so hammered diesel!

    So now they want everyone to buy electric cars or else. When the electric generation and distribution companies saw the government demands for electric car take-up they published figures on how many more power stations and cables would be required to meet them. It was funny.
    Funny but sad in that how is "policy experts" seem to shape the world these days, "ooops...never mind". I was at an event in DC yesterday and I wasn't shocked, but more dismayed at some of the conversations I had regarding electric vehicles. I don't have anything against it, but the "policy/mandate" approach does not seem to consider any practical realities and their cost, nor the risk of putting all of one's eggs in one basket. If one wants to address that risk in a meaningful way then the infrastructure needs to be hardened beyond anything built today. That costs a lot of money.


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    Quote Originally Posted by J_Westy View Post
    It's very amazing to me that they have so many options:
    - B-max
    - C-max
    - S-max
    - Galaxy
    - Transit Courier
    - Transit Connect
    - Transit Custom
    - Transit
    That's just Ford.

    Years ago very few cars with more than five seats existed. Companies like Volvo and Peugeot took existing estate cars and put a couple of extra seats in the back but that was about it. The first van-like passenger cars were Japanese, based on vans like the Hi-ace, but they were never particularly popular.

    The reason for this lack of choice was brutally simple. There was no law compelling people to wear seatbelts and carrying too many people in a car seldom resulted in prosecution. The most common need for more seats was to accommodate children, and children are small, so large families would just squash into smaller cars!

    It wasn't uncommon to see four or more kids on the back seat of a saloon car and/or a mother in the front with a baby or small child on her lap. From a safety perspective, this wasn't very good so laws were enacted to force seatbelt use, unsure every passenger had a dedicated seat and smaller children were in proper child-seats. You never see the overcrowding that was normal years ago and virtually everyone wears a seatbelt.

    The result is that larger families who previously would have managed with a five-seat saloon car now need a 'people carrier', as they are called here. The increased popularity of this type of vehicle has resulted in more options and prices coming down. The increased awareness and availability of these bigger cars has meant that some people choose them just for the extra load space and higher driving position, even if they don't need the seats.

    This caused the invention of another type of car, typically called the 'cross-over'. Manufacturers realized that people liked the high driving position even if they didn't need the space of a people carrier or the four-wheel drive of an off-road car so they started making five-seat cars that were more upright. Today these cars are extremely popular with the Nissan Qashqai selling so well that Nissan stopped producing traditional saloon cars altogether!

    So yeah, there is a huge choice of small 'van' type cars in the UK. Virtually all major manufacturers make them and they are available in all sizes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I don't have anything against it, but the "policy/mandate" approach does not seem to consider any practical realities and their cost, nor the risk of putting all of one's eggs in one basket.
    Exactly, which is why I do have something against it. Politicians seem to be very out of touch with reality and it's not helpful.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    An imperial gallon is different in volume than a US gallon. 35 mpg would be 29 mpg after conversion (.83 imperial gallon to 1 US gal).

    Also the tests are different. US tests are based on a "typical American driving scenario", which is obviously different from a "typical EU driving scenario", considering the difference in roadways.

    Not sure why an 8 speed auto transmission is assumed to be that inefficient. I wouldn't be surprised if a modern 8 spd auto is more efficient than manual, considering it keeps it in the optimal power band better. Plenty of recent evidence supporting this in the past 5 years, with CVTs and such. Ford, I don't know about, but Mazda 6 spd autos rival their manual transmissions well.

    Yes, the efficiency gap has reduced, but not across the board. There are still too many slushboxes out there, but CAFE requirements are going to end them unless any exemptions are granted.

    While I would agree that a GREAT automatic can b result in a more efficient driveline for an AVERAGE driver, it cannot beat someone that drives a majority of highway miles (unless they dog on their vehicle), or someone that is aware of their engine's torque curve and consciously shifts to maximize efficiency. Even if both transmissions have the exact same gears in the exact same build, you still have to pump fluid to build line pressure for shifts. No way around that.

    Even manual transmissions with hydraulically actuated clutch cables/linkages have actuators to power. J/K, the efficiency difference is negligible, but there are too few on the market. I would like to see more electronically actuated manuals on the market (with a full manual mode!). Unfortunately, so many people have driven only autos that the clutch engagement leads them to believe something is wrong with the transmissions, or that they are too harsh, and they can't get a good foothold. I'm hoping future CAFE requirements will convince mfg's to go this route.
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  19. #19
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    I personally love paddle shifters, if that's what you mean by electronically actuated.

    Anyone see the Foes 2" Transit lift kit? Not for the stretched Focus version, but the full size. Looks like it rivals the VanCompass version (1400 for Foes, vs 1700).
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  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Varaxis;13541982]I personally love paddle shifters, if that's what you mean by electronically actuated.

    [qUOTE]

    Absolutely not. Most paddle shifters are fully automatic hydraulic transmissions with a set of switches (paddles)that call for upshifts and downshifts.

    While this type of system 'technically' electronically 'actuates' gear changes, it does so through the use of valves inside the automatic transmission.

    What I am referring to are MANUAL transmissions that have actuators to physically move the control rods inside what is otherwise a normal manual transmission with a dry clutch, what we traditionally refer to as a 'stick' shift vehicle. There is no torque converter.
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    No manual=not for me. Can't even get an Outback stick anymore. A simple Transit Connect cargo van with non-turbo engine and 6 speed manual would be my 3-season bike/camp choice.
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  22. #22
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    Ram pmc?

    Quote Originally Posted by deuxdiesel View Post
    No manual=not for me. Can't even get an Outback stick anymore. A simple Transit Connect cargo van with non-turbo engine and 6 speed manual would be my 3-season bike/camp choice.
    You might want to consider the RAM Promaster City. Has 2.4L petrol mated to 9spd tranny that is different design than typical slush box. Bonus is it can be shifted manually and will hold the gear selected throughout the rev range. So essentially it can be driven just like a manual without operating a clutch. Also because 2nd row seats fold and tumble forward in 60/40 split it accomodates bikes better than the Ford...Ford promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van-pmc2.jpgFord promises diesel power for Transit Connect Van-pmc1.jpg
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCanoeDog View Post
    You might want to consider the RAM Promaster City.
    No way an American designed that thing. Who did they steal it from?

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