Angry Roadies in Boulder Canyon- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 59 of 59
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5

    Bonking ... not feelin' well Angry Roadies in Boulder Canyon

    I will never understand the roadie mindset. The unbridled sense of entitlement coupled with the false sense of security. I see it week after week on the highways around Boulder - particularly on Hwy 93 to Lyons - where I routinely see packs riding double, sometimes triple abreast. This stretch of highway kills several cyclists EVERY YEAR.

    This morning though... coming down Boulder Canyon at rush hour in the morning - 7:30ish. Full of traffic - well - about 6 cars in my pack. Two roadies were cruising down the last 4 miles of road (instead of on the safe, secure, scenic, well-maintained bike path along this section). Dudes were NOT going the speed of traffic. Dude number one was clearly outside the whiteline - aware that traffic was moving faster and going around him. Dude number two at first appeared to be doing the same, and as I went to pass him - giving plenty of room (to the degree that my car was "reading the braile") - dude yells at the top of his lungs at our window (and right at my 13 year old girl and 5 year old girl) ****! YOU!
    Like I was supposed to stay behind his slow ass for four miles down the rest of the canyon? Seriously?

    First - I never, ever, ever assume people are going to wait for me, stay behind me, etc. when and if I need to bike on a road. Second - if you're going to choose to bike on a heavily trafficked section of highway - during rush hour - maybe you should use the bike path instead. If you insist on being on the road - then don't ****ing assume you can just have the whole lane - for big long stretches of road.

    Dude is a f-ing moron.

    I don't get it.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: drag_slick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    397
    nevermind....
    Last edited by drag_slick; 05-24-2016 at 11:22 AM.

  3. #3
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    5,133
    Well OP, you are completely and absolutely wrong in your understanding of riding a road bike and what the rules of the road are. Before you rant from your wobbly soapbox, you should probably understand what you are talking about. I don't feel inclined to point out each part of your post that is completely incorrect. I will say this has been hashed out here several times by ignorant car drivers. You should probably just back away slowly and fade into forum obscurity.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  4. #4
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,488
    OP:

    1) Read the law.

    2) Apologize for your stunning ignorance.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    Point taken Not-So-Silent-Foe. I plan to research the laws in our state, as I don't actually know.

    However - biking down the Boulder Canyon highway during morning rush hour is still a terrible and dangerous idea. It's completely full of busses, trucks and stacked up morning commuters.

  6. #6
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,488
    Quote Originally Posted by thingfish View Post
    Point taken Not-So-Silent-Foe. I plan to research the laws in our state, as I don't actually know.

    However - biking down the Boulder Canyon highway during morning rush hour is still a terrible and dangerous idea. It's completely full of busses, trucks and stacked up morning commuters.
    ^^^The reason the cyclist was mad at you.

    You don't know the law, and probably passed in an unsafe manner, perhaps illegally.

    He has every right to be out there as you do.

    Also his life > your little girls feelings. Sorry. If you passed me like that, you'd get the same or worse.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  7. #7
    Rent this space for $
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,592
    The hate and vitriol spewed about by motor vehicle operators towards road riders when the vehicle operators are absolutely clueless to the written rules of the road are nothing short of mind numbing and baffling. That's not to say that there aren't situations that are brought on by inconsiderate road riders but the screaming and complaining that I see so much on social media and elsewhere just frightens me as to how clueless and dangerous most vehicle operators are these days. I say this a motorcycle rider, a devoted mtb'r, and now a recent inductee into road riding which, btw, has been an epic improvement in my mtb riding. OP, you should try it sometime.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    I get it... allow more room for passing, or don't pass.

    As for trying road biking - been there done that. Too many fallen friends and colleagues - including myself. I'll stick to the mountains and forests.

    This being said - still seems foolish to me to bike down Boulder Canyon - particularly at that hour.

    As for the law and my other comments about people riding two and three abreast - the law reads like this:

    "(6) (a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file;
    except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the
    following circumstances:
    (i) When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and
    reasonable movement of traffic..."

  9. #9
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,488
    Then call the cops.

    It doesn't provide you with an excuse to pass illegally.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,896
    It's just as well people who ride bicycles never do anything illegal, inconsiderate or dangerous. If they did these discussions could get so confusing...

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    I did not share that piece of law as an excuse to pass illegally. I understand that I probably did pass illegally this morning and will be more cautious in the future.

    The law snippet was shared since Silentfoe insinuated that everything about my original post was incorrect. After reading the law - it is clear that my mention of roadies riding two abreast is illegal when impeding traffic - and riding three abreast straight up illegal.

    Doesn't matter though. Roadies, in particular, roadies from the elitist, pompous community of Boulder will continue to behave as though they are king shit, which in my experience is reckless behavior.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,345
    Umm, OP, learn to share, the road belongs to all of us. Bikes are vehicles too. Never been behind a slow, truck, tractor or texter?

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    305
    We get it, you don't like roadies. That does not make you right however, they have just as much right to use the road as you do legally.

    Riding on a road like that might very well be stupid as you say, personally I wouldn't. But that still does not change the fact that it is legal, whether it pisses you off. And truthfully, the only reason it might be stupid is because of how they will likely be treated, by drivers like you, that are in the wrong.

    We're this far down in the thread and you are STILL leveling nastiness at roadies etc. You know who comes off as an elitist pompous reckless person? Yeah, that would be you.

    Chill out.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    5
    Yeah i'm done.

    Thanks for participating everyone.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    781
    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    Umm, OP, learn to share, the road belongs to all of us. Bikes are vehicles too. Never been behind a slow, truck, tractor or texter?
    No one else does a quarter of the actual speed limit. Seriously, I don't care what the law is, I pull over for people overtaking me on my mtb bike off the road and the majority of people I come up on will do the same. Why do so many roadies expect everyone to go slow as shit on roads when half the time they could just go single file? Why can't it be courteous like most mtn bikers. I think it takes a real dick mentality to spread out in the road with a pack and expect everyone to just go a quarter of the speed limit or less.

    At any rate, there are just so many shitty drivers on the road. All of us drive so much that we momentarily lose focus. We all do it and you are full of it if you claim it never happens to you. It's too easy to get killed by all the idiots and regular joes that lose focus for a second around a corner and don't see the biker. It just seems so dumb to want to be on busy roads without a wide, well-maintained shoulder.

  16. #16
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    26,569
    Quote Originally Posted by thingfish View Post
    I get it... allow more room for passing, or don't pass.

    As for trying road biking - been there done that. Too many fallen friends and colleagues - including myself. I'll stick to the mountains and forests.

    This being said - still seems foolish to me to bike down Boulder Canyon - particularly at that hour.

    As for the law and my other comments about people riding two and three abreast - the law reads like this:

    "(6) (a) Persons operating bicycles on roadways shall ride single file;
    except that riding no more than two abreast is permitted in the
    following circumstances:
    (i) When riding two abreast will not impede the normal and
    reasonable movement of traffic..."
    If you really dive into what the laws ACTUALLY mean, they give cyclists a LOT of leeway to decide for themselves the appropriate situations to take the lane. The onus is on the driver wishing to pass, to pass safely and appropriately. You should also look into the definition of impeding the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Because bicycles are ALSO traffic. Where I live, farm equipment and Amish folks with horses and buggies are ALSO traffic, and they have no obligation to get out of anyone's way.

  17. #17
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,344
    Dang, ya'll really played "jump on the new guy." I'm not sure how anyone could ascertain -- based on the information provided -- that the OP made an illegal pass.

    Second, while I don't necessarily agree with the OP's overall tone, a larger point remains: Road riders often place themselves in extraordinarily dangerous situations and the constant refrain is: Yeah, but the law says I can do this.

    Fair enough and absolutely correct. But this attitude inevitably leads to riders getting hurt and killed by vehicle drivers. I see similar things here in the Scottsdale area: Riders 2 or 3 abreast on six-lane divided surface streets with no bike lanes, blind turns and drivers routinely traveling at 60mph plus

    I'm not hating on road riders. I respect them and they don't make me angry. I do cringe when I see this sort of thing as I hate to see anyone get hurt.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GFreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    280
    I'm with the thingfish (OP) and Blatant on this one....As I understand what the law says and I completely agree that regardless if cyclists are breaking the law / or riding in a rude fasion care should be taken when passing. Although it doesn't make it right for roadies to behave this way. Fact of the matter is riding two abreast is just plain rude if they're holding up traffic. I get it, roadies want to travel in the safest path of travel and I'm respectful of that if it means they need to ride in a car lane, if and only if, they are single file.

    At the end of the day it's rude, very rude, if they are riding side by side with a bike lane with one rider outside their designated lane. I think what I'm going to do is find a friend and we'll drive 5 miles an hour down a hill - I'll be in the bike lane and my friend will be in the car lane and we'll see how roadies feel about that.

  19. #19
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    26,569
    the thing is, that the riders asserting their position in the road may draw the ire of motorists, they aren't being hit and dying nearly as often as the "hidden cyclists". You know the ones. The people with DUI's. The people who can't afford a car. Homeless folks. People who don't consider themselves cyclists. People on bicycles who haven't the foggiest clue what their rights and responsibilities are. THEY are the ones who are hit by cars most frequently.

    Those roadies pissing you off by taking the lane? They did their job. You've seen them. How many of those "hidden cyclists" do you ever notice as you go about your daily business? How many close calls do you have with them that you never notice? I know that I notice a lot of them. Mostly they're riding the wrong way. I passed a salmon rider on my way home just this evening. Not a terribly close call this time because I saw him far enough ahead of time to adapt. I also saw a guy on a fixie who was inexplicably riding ON the double yellow line. That's not exactly ideal lane positioning, either. But again, I made sure to keep my distance because I know that fixie riders can be unpredictable due the fact that many refuse to install real brakes.

    But those aren't the riders anyone is complaining about here. No. Y'all are complaining about people who were doing what the law permits them to do.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208

    Angry Roadies in Boulder Canyon

    Here's the colorado law that applies:

    "Any person operating a bicycle or an electrical assisted bicycle upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic shall ride in the right-hand lane, subject to the following conditions:
    If the right-hand lane then available for traffic is wide enough to be safely shared with overtaking vehicles, a bicyclist shall ride far enough to the right as judged safe by the bicyclist to facilitate the movement of such overtaking vehicles unless other conditions make it unsafe to do so"

    So I think the case to make here for riding two abreast is if the lane available for traffic is not wide enough to be shared with overtaking vehicles. In such a case, I would think you could make a reasonable case for riding two abreast in order to prevent traffic from passing on a lane that was too narrow because (a) the line is not wide enough to be safely shared with a vehicle and a bike but with two bikes and (b) riding as far to the right as possible is not appropriate (can't pass with a car) and (c) the judgment of what is safe is to be made by the cyclist.

    So, not being familiar with this road, is it too narrow to be shared by a cyclist and a vehicle?



    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GFreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    280
    With all things being equal in regards to safety it really comes down to being courteous to others. Riding 2 abreast not allowing vehicles to pass is just rude.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by GFreak View Post
    With all things being equal in regards to safety it really comes down to being courteous to others. Riding 2 abreast not allowing vehicles to pass is just rude.
    not if it's a narrow roadway and there is insufficient room for a car to pass a single cyclist. In that case, there would be plenty of room for two cyclists to safely take the lane. In that case it would be unsafe for the vehicle to pass and would be rude too.

    If I'm reading the Colorado statute correctly, the cyclists gets to decide what is safe and what isn't in terms of too narrow.

    If the road is not narrow, the it's single file as close as is safe to the right side. It's not a case of rude, it would be a case of illegal. But, again, under CO law, it's up to the cyclist to assess the danger and determine what is a safe distance from the right.

    J.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Steezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    781
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    not if it's a narrow roadway and there is insufficient room for a car to pass a single cyclist. In that case, there would be plenty of room for two cyclists to safely take the lane. In that case it would be unsafe for the vehicle to pass and would be rude too.
    J.
    Then pull over and stop to let traffic go by. We do this on our mtn bikes on trails designed for speeds that only bikes do. Now we have roads designed for motor vehicle speeds and the newer road bike craze has caught on. Why are mtn bikers expected to be courteous, but not roadies? A lot of mtn bikers want their kom's as well, but it isn't always possible, unless you act like a dick and don't let people pass, then people go online and start 140 page rants about *******s using Strava.

    Instead you get roadies that expect everyone driving a vehicle to be a perfect driver around them, foolishly find out it is not even close to reality, get mad and start douching up the road with the interpretation that it is not safe to ride single file or not in the middle of the lane by themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harold
    the thing is, that the riders asserting their position in the road may draw the ire of motorists, they aren't being hit and dying nearly as often as the "hidden cyclists".
    I would be highly surprised if this was actually the case. It is almost always road bikers I hear about getting smoked by a car. My dad is really big into it. For me I just expect that it is only a matter of time before something bad happens. You are really gambling with your life out there on the highways unprotected by a bike. He is also one of the ***** that tries to assert his rights no matter how unsafe it is and he definitely gets close calls all the time. I wish he would give it up.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,896
    Quote Originally Posted by GFreak View Post
    I'm with the thingfish (OP) and Blatant on this one...
    Me too. Without seeing the actual encounter it's impossible to conclude for certain that it was the driver at fault, which makes vilifying him rather unfair. What you are saying is that cyclists are always in the right, drivers always in the wrong and that's an idiotic and counter-productive position to take.

    As cyclists, we want drivers to think of us as reasonable, courteous and friendly. Kind of the exact opposite of the way some of you have behaved towards Thingfish perhaps? Even if a driver is in the wrong we still want him to change, to treat us with more consideration. And that's less likely to happen if all he ever gets from cyclists is hatred.

  25. #25
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,488
    You're typing a bunch of words, but here's the deal:

    The law is what it is. Drivers are required to pass safely.

    They are required to pass cyclists, motorcyclists, slow trucks or broken down vehicles safely as well.

    Based on his own account (driver side wheels on yellow line is NOT far enough over) the cyclists had a right to be upset.

    Don't like it? Vote for people who will change the law, don't drive on that road, or don't drive at all.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  26. #26
    Bikesexual
    Reputation: jcd46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    7,055
    Perhaps I can ask this question here. I'm new to ridding on the road and we have plenty of bike lanes on the route I'm using but of course the break up at big intersections.

    When making a left turn, do you guys use the crosswalk and go around, or do you actually go on the left lane and turn w/traffic? and if so do you do it left/right side of the vehicle turning left?

    I wasn't sure the first ride and I went into w/the traffic, the next day I did it in the crosswalk. What's the protocol? so I'm not an ass-hle roadie lol -

    I do see a lot of cyclists go w/traffic. I have to say it is a bit intimidating ridding around busy streets. Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question but I'm really unsure.
    Surly Krampus
    All City MMD
    Kona Unit
    Surly Cross-Check

  27. #27
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    10,488
    I use the turn lane, and exit the turn on the far right side, or bike lane if one exists.

    It might actually be illegal to ride on the sidewalk, not to mention super unsafe. Pedestrians and all of the people exiting or entering the road? No thanks.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  28. #28
    Bikesexual
    Reputation: jcd46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    7,055
    ^^ Thanks, that's what I did the first day. Now, I wasn't using the SW I was on the road but crossed w/the pedestrian's green light straight then, crossed it again to take my route. The thing I noticed is the people turning right are quite impatient
    Surly Krampus
    All City MMD
    Kona Unit
    Surly Cross-Check

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Based on his own account (driver side wheels on yellow line is NOT far enough over) the cyclists had a right to be upset.
    So how wide was the road? Exactly how much space was there between the car and the cyclist? How fast did the car pass? Where on the road was the cyclist?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    When making a left turn, do you guys use the crosswalk and go around, or do you actually go on the left lane and turn w/traffic?
    It's best to do what involves the least risk of death. All other suggestions are bravado.

    There is a junction I go through on my commute that I've given up on. It was always bad but they put in lights a few years ago and now it's hopeless. I hop up onto the pavement and slowly go around it and back onto the road. Overall it is quicker and a lot safer. Also legal in Scotland, not so in England. Staying alive is more important than saving a few seconds. Or at least it should be.

  30. #30
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    26,569

    I would be highly surprised if this was actually the case. It is almost always road bikers I hear about getting smoked by a car. My dad is really big into it. For me I just expect that it is only a matter of time before something bad happens. You are really gambling with your life out there on the highways unprotected by a bike. He is also one of the ***** that tries to assert his rights no matter how unsafe it is and he definitely gets close calls all the time. I wish he would give it up.
    Watch the evening news. Most people dying are not kitted out roadies.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Steezus View Post
    Then pull over and stop to let traffic go by. We do this on our mtn bikes on trails designed for speeds that only bikes do. Now we have roads designed for motor vehicle speeds and the newer road bike craze has caught on. Why are mtn bikers expected to be courteous, but not roadies? A lot of mtn bikers want their kom's as well, but it isn't always possible, unless you act like a dick and don't let people pass, then people go online and start 140 page rants about *******s using Strava.

    Instead you get roadies that expect everyone driving a vehicle to be a perfect driver around them, foolishly find out it is not even close to reality, get mad and start douching up the road with the interpretation that it is not safe to ride single file or not in the middle of the lane by themselves.



    I would be highly surprised if this was actually the case. It is almost always road bikers I hear about getting smoked by a car. My dad is really big into it. For me I just expect that it is only a matter of time before something bad happens. You are really gambling with your life out there on the highways unprotected by a bike. He is also one of the ***** that tries to assert his rights no matter how unsafe it is and he definitely gets close calls all the time. I wish he would give it up.
    Basically, listen to your dad.

    Doing things like you are advocating - stopping unexpectedly on roadsides are dangerous in their own right. The best protection you have is to act in a predictable way and follow the rules of the road. Is cycling dangerous? yes, to some extent although surprisingly safer than you might imagine. It becomes a lot more safe when you act predictably and like a vehicle.

    I, for one, have gotten to the point where I refuse special attention that a motorist may give to me as a cyclist. Example - a motorist on a busy road who is making a left turn in front of me where I have to stop at a stop sign. Often they try and wave me across which basically upends the right of way rules. No way am I going to go out in front of a guy who just created an obstacle on the road that may get rear -ended and then run over me. No way do I want to be in front of a motorist who has just demonstrated a lack of understanding of the most basic safety concepts in driving. I'll gladly wait my turn and for them to be gone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    You're typing a bunch of words, but here's the deal:

    The law is what it is. Drivers are required to pass safely.

    They are required to pass cyclists, motorcyclists, slow trucks or broken down vehicles safely as well.

    Based on his own account (driver side wheels on yellow line is NOT far enough over) the cyclists had a right to be upset.

    Don't like it? Vote for people who will change the law, don't drive on that road, or don't drive at all.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    Exactly right. Well said. And it doesn't matter if they get annoyed. Their annoyance stems from ignorance.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    I use the turn lane, and exit the turn on the far right side, or bike lane if one exists.

    It might actually be illegal to ride on the sidewalk, not to mention super unsafe. Pedestrians and all of the people exiting or entering the road? No thanks.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
    ^this

    I would add that if the intersection is dangerous or highly busy and if you can get it out of your route, then do so.

    The way to use crosswalks with your bike is as a pedestrian. Do note that pedestrians get hit in crosswalks all the time too. So there is absolutely no guarantee that that is safe either.

    J.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Watch the evening news. Most people dying are not kitted out roadies.
    Round where I live most of the cyclist hit are roadies. People get hit in cities because there are more people and more cars in cities. There are more of all kinds of traffic accident in cities. I live in the country surround by roads that are really popular with roadies. And they get hit. Not often, but the accidents I've heard about have all been roadies.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208
    This page has a lot of good information on cycling statistics. What we can get from here is that the most dangerous places are intersections, urban areas, sidewalks intersecting roads, and riding on the wrong side of the road. Given that this location was none of those, it probably isn't nearly as dangerous as other situations.

    Cycling is more dangerous that riding in a car but that can't be unexpected by anyone here - almost all sporting activities are when there is speed involved. I'd suggest that the biggest problem here was motorists not understanding their obligations and cyclists getting upset about that. Ignorant motorists who get annoyed are not a big concern for me. Dangerous to take the lane here? No. Safer? Almost certainly.

    J.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: GFreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    280
    Frankly, road riding is more unsafe than DH. Roadies should pad up and wear a full face - Plane and simple!

  36. #36
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,344
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Watch the evening news. Most people dying are not kitted out roadies.
    So, you're extrapolating an entire statistical universe based on what you glean from the news in LA or Podunkville or wherever you live?
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  37. #37
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    26,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Round where I live most of the cyclist hit are roadies. People get hit in cities because there are more people and more cars in cities. There are more of all kinds of traffic accident in cities. I live in the country surround by roads that are really popular with roadies. And they get hit. Not often, but the accidents I've heard about have all been roadies.
    Sure, I know that roadies get hit, too. Smart commuters sometimes get hit. But in cities, news reports cover "cyclists" hit by cars VERY frequently. Usually they say that no helmet was worn. If there is footage, it is often a dept store bike. It is often dark.

    These folks are the "hidden" cyclists. Low income, DUI, homeless, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    So, you're extrapolating an entire statistical universe based on what you glean from the news in LA or Podunkville or wherever you live?
    Watch the nightly news where you live for a few months and keep track of the people the news reports call "cyclists" who are killed by cars. I have lived a lot of places, and the trend does not differ much.

  38. #38
    Rent this space for $
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,592
    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Perhaps I can ask this question here. I'm new to ridding on the road and we have plenty of bike lanes on the route I'm using but of course the break up at big intersections.

    When making a left turn, do you guys use the crosswalk and go around, or do you actually go on the left lane and turn w/traffic? and if so do you do it left/right side of the vehicle turning left?

    I wasn't sure the first ride and I went into w/the traffic, the next day I did it in the crosswalk. What's the protocol? so I'm not an ass-hle roadie lol -

    I do see a lot of cyclists go w/traffic. I have to say it is a bit intimidating ridding around busy streets. Sorry if it sounds like a dumb question but I'm really unsure.
    jcd, you've pretty much got your answer but I thought I'd comment further on that subject. As stated, use the left turn lane. I like to use the analogy about being a "motorcycle" since I have thousands and thousands of touring and commuting miles on my motor. I ride my bicycle like I ride my motor, the difference being that most of it's along the right edge of the road as required until it's time to control a lane. As a cyclist, you must exert "control" over a lane when you need to change position or if you need to avoid hazards in your path. A cyclist riding in the center of a traffic lane is "controlling" the lane as he is legally able and obligated to when the situation dictates. At times when you need to make that transition from the right edge, across lanes, and into a left turn lane, you need to pick your timing and place yourself squarely into the center so that it doesn't give the driver behind the ability to squeeze by encroaching in your space. That space is YOURS just as it would be if it were a semi-truck or a motorcycle. Being tentative about lane changes or many maneuvers can be confusing to drivers and considering most have pretty bad judgement, bad things happen. The mention above about being predictable really rings true.

    Another thing I have noticed with many drivers and I'm not sure it applies to the OP's situation is the term "Bike Lane". In talking to people about road riding, many if not most think that the white line on the right edge is delineation that requires bikes to stay on the right side of in traffic. Unless that area is wide enough (>3 feet), and physically marked and signed as a "Bike Lane", it IS NOT a bike lane. The white line or Fog Line is simply marking the measured edge or shoulder of that road and bicycles are NOT required to be in it. Most of the time, that area is loaded with road debris, glass, bolts, etc. All the shit you don't want to run over with a skinny tire bike.

  39. #39
    Bikesexual
    Reputation: jcd46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    7,055
    ^^ I appreciate you expanding on it OMS. I have to admit I was hesitant the first time I moved to the left but did signal w/my arm my move. It is all timing and using extra care I guess, and good to know the cyclist's options - funny you mention the debris since they are road tires (and I'm not used/familiar) I constantly worry about a flat w/all the crap you run into inside the white late which in my case it is the bike lane on most of the route.
    Surly Krampus
    All City MMD
    Kona Unit
    Surly Cross-Check

  40. #40
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    Driving in a car is inherently dangerous (I am sure I can research the stats and post them but am lazy..its early) yet you do it every day...ride a bike on the road...watch out. I get the frustration of driving behind a pack of riders. I ride road. Getting ready to go out now. I just try to smile and wave when I get honked at etc. and not loose my mind and scream "F U" etc. Packs of guys riding 2-3 wide is not ok, single file on heavy traffic roads is more appropriate and safer for all parties involved. Drivers also cause issues when they don't drive assertively and pass (safely). Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes you get behind a slow car. Sometimes you get behind a pack of riders on a DH and have to wait a few minutes. Look around and take in the scenery and have a better day b/c you didn't kill someone.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,397
    I think it's ok to ride 2-3 abreast when there is no traffic behind, and we do that alot, but when traffic comes up from behind, usually the last rider calls out" car back" then we all merge over to a single file line.
    I believe it's the pro riders or those wanna be pro riders who are sometimes guilt of blocking traffic, I've seen it up here where I live where some pros train and we have had stages of the TOC and the Redlands Classic.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: armii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    758

  43. #43
    Snow Dog
    Reputation: str8edgMTBMXer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,756
    What I have gleaned from reading this whole thread is that the "the law" is more important than common sense....

    I commute to work regularly. Not on highways (since bikes are not allowed on highways), but on some larger 4 lane roads where speed limits are between 45-55 at some points. No sidewalks or bike lanes.

    "The Law" (in Ohio) states (like many mentioned above) that I must stay as far to the right as is safe; multiple riders in single file; proper signaling etc. etc.

    "Common sense" states that since I am the smaller, slower, more exposed entity in a situation where I am also the minority, I have to "bend" my will and possibly give up the rights that "The Law" states that I have. Common sense also tells me that in this situation, the "majority" will tend to be ignorant of "The Law", and self absorbed in what they are doing since they are the "majority" and will not bend or adjust what they are doing.

    Summary: I choose to ride in a situation where I am the minority and more vulnerable entity. If “The Law” states that I can ride outside the lines of “Common Sense”, and Iif I choose to do that, I deserve what I get when bad things happen. I will never have sympathy for people who get hurt when they choose to live outside the world of Common Sense, regardless of whether they were in the boundaries of “The Law”.
    Common Sense is always a better yardstick to judge a situation than “The Law.”

    I could never even imagine being so brazen and self absorbed to challenge distracted drivers, trucks and busses, and other larger entities on the road when on my bike. Given the description, the roadies in the original post were doing this, and regardless of “The Law”, had no right to be such asshats. While I agree with the OP’s issue, I don’t agree with him “buzzing” the cyclists if that is what he meant by “going Braille”. That is also beyond an asshat move.

    I also am the minority when I am driving, and I WILL ride slowly behind bikers in the road until I can safely pass. ...unless THEY are the ones being ignorant of “The Law” and common sense. Then I will let them know as I pass about that issue, usually with a honk of the horn and a frowny face. There have been countless times where I have pissed off the “majority” and driven slower b/c of a biker in the lane. I will not, nor have I EVER done anything dangerous with my car versus a biker b/c that is false, and I believe in Karma, and always hope that that won’t happen to me.
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    819
    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    I could never even imagine being so brazen and self absorbed to challenge distracted drivers, trucks and busses, and other larger entities on the road when on my bike. Given the description, the roadies in the original post were doing this, and regardless of “The Law”, had no right to be such asshats. While I agree with the OP’s issue, I don’t agree with him “buzzing” the cyclists if that is what he meant by “going Braille”. That is also beyond an asshat move.
    You've never thought it would be safer to "challenge" other road users by taking the lane? Never had to take the lane to go around a parked car, road debris? The law lets you move over because there are a lot of common sense reasons you would need to do so. Whether or not people in cars are aware of those situations doesn't change that fact.

    I think common sense would dictate people in larger, deadly vehicles should be held to a higher standard that would involve not killing other road users. Motor vehicle crashes kill over 30,000 people a year in the US, but we talk like they are the safe option for getting around. If that's common sense, I say we challenge common sense.

  45. #45
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    The way to sort these battles out is simple. The driver(s) have to ride road bikes on the road in question, and the cyclists have to drive behind roadies on the same road. Solved.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: armii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    758
    There seems to be a prevailing theory by roadies that riding two abreast is safer because it increases visibility. I find this to be a dubious claim and have seen no research to support this claim. I place it with motorcyclist's that claim loud pipes save lives. Either case I don't see where aggravating operators of 3000+ lb vehicles to the point of road rage could possibly be safer.

    And in the case of bikes, to me, anyone that rides in the road when there is a designated bike lane is a complete jerk, whether legal or not.

  47. #47
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    What I have gleaned from reading this whole thread is that the "the law" is more important than common sense....

    I commute to work regularly. Not on highways (since bikes are not allowed on highways), but on some larger 4 lane roads where speed limits are between 45-55 at some points. No sidewalks or bike lanes.

    "The Law" (in Ohio) states (like many mentioned above) that I must stay as far to the right as is safe; multiple riders in single file; proper signaling etc. etc.

    "Common sense" states that since I am the smaller, slower, more exposed entity in a situation where I am also the minority, I have to "bend" my will and possibly give up the rights that "The Law" states that I have. Common sense also tells me that in this situation, the "majority" will tend to be ignorant of "The Law", and self absorbed in what they are doing since they are the "majority" and will not bend or adjust what they are doing.

    Summary: I choose to ride in a situation where I am the minority and more vulnerable entity. If “The Law” states that I can ride outside the lines of “Common Sense”, and Iif I choose to do that, I deserve what I get when bad things happen. I will never have sympathy for people who get hurt when they choose to live outside the world of Common Sense, regardless of whether they were in the boundaries of “The Law”.
    Common Sense is always a better yardstick to judge a situation than “The Law.”

    I could never even imagine being so brazen and self absorbed to challenge distracted drivers, trucks and busses, and other larger entities on the road when on my bike. Given the description, the roadies in the original post were doing this, and regardless of “The Law”, had no right to be such asshats. While I agree with the OP’s issue, I don’t agree with him “buzzing” the cyclists if that is what he meant by “going Braille”. That is also beyond an asshat move.

    I also am the minority when I am driving, and I WILL ride slowly behind bikers in the road until I can safely pass. ...unless THEY are the ones being ignorant of “The Law” and common sense. Then I will let them know as I pass about that issue, usually with a honk of the horn and a frowny face. There have been countless times where I have pissed off the “majority” and driven slower b/c of a biker in the lane. I will not, nor have I EVER done anything dangerous with my car versus a biker b/c that is false, and I believe in Karma, and always hope that that won’t happen to me.
    Truth. I agree 100%. I am smaller, slower, and more vulnerable so I yield to cars in almost all situations and don’t assert my cycling rights/the laws. There is one situation where I do not. This morning for example. I ride on a road (25-35mph) that passes through a traffic circle and then hits a stop light shortly after. I always “take the lane” through the circle (come out into the middle going in) as I got passed once which was CRAZY dangerous as there is not breathing room. The drivers can wait and beep all they want. The light is almost always red and they will get through it as the same time regardless. Just impatience on some folks part and this kind of thing is what drives a lot of cyclists crazy..just take a breath and wait the extra 10 seconds for me to get through it.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  48. #48
    Rent this space for $
    Reputation: Oh My Sack!'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,592
    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    What I have gleaned from reading this whole thread is that the "the law" is more important than common sense....

    I commute to work regularly. Not on highways (since bikes are not allowed on highways), but on some larger 4 lane roads where speed limits are between 45-55 at some points. No sidewalks or bike lanes.

    "The Law" (in Ohio) states (like many mentioned above) that I must stay as far to the right as is safe; multiple riders in single file; proper signaling etc. etc.

    "Common sense" states that since I am the smaller, slower, more exposed entity in a situation where I am also the minority, I have to "bend" my will and possibly give up the rights that "The Law" states that I have. Common sense also tells me that in this situation, the "majority" will tend to be ignorant of "The Law", and self absorbed in what they are doing since they are the "majority" and will not bend or adjust what they are doing.

    Summary: I choose to ride in a situation where I am the minority and more vulnerable entity. If “The Law” states that I can ride outside the lines of “Common Sense”, and Iif I choose to do that, I deserve what I get when bad things happen. I will never have sympathy for people who get hurt when they choose to live outside the world of Common Sense, regardless of whether they were in the boundaries of “The Law”.
    Common Sense is always a better yardstick to judge a situation than “The Law.”

    I could never even imagine being so brazen and self absorbed to challenge distracted drivers, trucks and busses, and other larger entities on the road when on my bike. Given the description, the roadies in the original post were doing this, and regardless of “The Law”, had no right to be such asshats. While I agree with the OP’s issue, I don’t agree with him “buzzing” the cyclists if that is what he meant by “going Braille”. That is also beyond an asshat move.

    I also am the minority when I am driving, and I WILL ride slowly behind bikers in the road until I can safely pass. ...unless THEY are the ones being ignorant of “The Law” and common sense. Then I will let them know as I pass about that issue, usually with a honk of the horn and a frowny face. There have been countless times where I have pissed off the “majority” and driven slower b/c of a biker in the lane. I will not, nor have I EVER done anything dangerous with my car versus a biker b/c that is false, and I believe in Karma, and always hope that that won’t happen to me.
    I totally "get" what you are saying.

    Pedestrians have the right away by most law but exercising that by stepping off a curb in front of a moving bus probably isn't going to turn out well.

    I also see the other side of the coin and wonder how many drivers misconstrue a cyclist's need to take control as a "dick" move because they fail to see/understand a set of condition(s) that might be deemed hazardous to the cyclist. We all need to remember that we can't be in someone else's head at any given time. My thought applies to how motorcyclists are treated as well. Undoubtedly, the general populace needs far more education and driver training pounded into their heads on the subject. Instead, we have so many operating motor vehicles without any clue as to the actual laws and rights of other users on the road.

    And yes, multi-riders abreast on the road p!ss me of to know end...as well as those that blow stop signs and other infractions. These issues stand out like a sore thumb but lets also think about all the infractions by fellow motorists that we squawk about that go on around us as we drive our cages down the 2 mile long Main Street, USA. Start riding a motorcycle on the roads regularly where your spidey senses are on hyperdrive ALL THE TIME. It's amazing that traffic makes it from one end of town to the other. Ride like your invisible. Always remember, there are no Old, Bold Riders.

  49. #49
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    jcd, you've pretty much got your answer but I thought I'd comment further on that subject. As stated, use the left turn lane. I like to use the analogy about being a "motorcycle" since I have thousands and thousands of touring and commuting miles on my motor. I ride my bicycle like I ride my motor, the difference being that most of it's along the right edge of the road as required until it's time to control a lane. As a cyclist, you must exert "control" over a lane when you need to change position or if you need to avoid hazards in your path. A cyclist riding in the center of a traffic lane is "controlling" the lane as he is legally able and obligated to when the situation dictates. At times when you need to make that transition from the right edge, across lanes, and into a left turn lane, you need to pick your timing and place yourself squarely into the center so that it doesn't give the driver behind the ability to squeeze by encroaching in your space. That space is YOURS just as it would be if it were a semi-truck or a motorcycle. Being tentative about lane changes or many maneuvers can be confusing to drivers and considering most have pretty bad judgement, bad things happen. The mention above about being predictable really rings true.

    Another thing I have noticed with many drivers and I'm not sure it applies to the OP's situation is the term "Bike Lane". In talking to people about road riding, many if not most think that the white line on the right edge is delineation that requires bikes to stay on the right side of in traffic. Unless that area is wide enough (>3 feet), and physically marked and signed as a "Bike Lane", it IS NOT a bike lane. The white line or Fog Line is simply marking the measured edge or shoulder of that road and bicycles are NOT required to be in it. Most of the time, that area is loaded with road debris, glass, bolts, etc. All the shit you don't want to run over with a skinny tire bike.
    Yes, "bike lane" is not the 1" wide swath between the lane and shoulder. This is often so filled with crap that you would be crazy to ride that far over. True bike lanes are a God-send and make this all much safer.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  50. #50
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Basically, listen to your dad.

    Doing things like you are advocating - stopping unexpectedly on roadsides are dangerous in their own right. The best protection you have is to act in a predictable way and follow the rules of the road. Is cycling dangerous? yes, to some extent although surprisingly safer than you might imagine. It becomes a lot more safe when you act predictably and like a vehicle.

    I, for one, have gotten to the point where I refuse special attention that a motorist may give to me as a cyclist. Example - a motorist on a busy road who is making a left turn in front of me where I have to stop at a stop sign. Often they try and wave me across which basically upends the right of way rules. No way am I going to go out in front of a guy who just created an obstacle on the road that may get rear -ended and then run over me. No way do I want to be in front of a motorist who has just demonstrated a lack of understanding of the most basic safety concepts in driving. I'll gladly wait my turn and for them to be gone.



    Exactly right. Well said. And it doesn't matter if they get annoyed. Their annoyance stems from ignorance.
    Not taking the right away IS the most dangerous thing and I agree - they are being nice but actually causing a much more dangerous situation (unpredictable/varying from the normal rules of the road behavior). Blinking light on the back, predictable behavior, not riding on the busiest roads at rush hour etc. is what will keep you the safest on the road. Also don't want cars piled up behind me...just pass...its ok...you clearly see me and won't hit me at this point and it causes more rage/impatience from the other motorists behind that driver.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    5,345
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I think it's ok to ride 2-3 abreast when there is no traffic behind, and we do that alot, but when traffic comes up from behind, usually the last rider calls out" car back" then we all merge over to a single file line.
    I believe it's the pro riders or those wanna be pro riders who are sometimes guilt of blocking traffic, I've seen it up here where I live where some pros train and we have had stages of the TOC and the Redlands Classic.
    One more thought. MA law allows 2 abreast. What is easier in a car to pass, a group of 2x5, sort of compact or 10 riders all strung out along a road? Something to think about. Not a roadie but I do plenty of commuting by bike.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Sure, I know that roadies get hit, too. Smart commuters sometimes get hit. But in cities, news reports cover "cyclists" hit by cars VERY frequently. Usually they say that no helmet was worn. If there is footage, it is often a dept store bike. It is often dark.
    A friend who commutes into Glasgow has been hit four times. He works in IT and rides a high-end road bike. None of his accidents made the news. POBs (people on bikes) don't get hit by cars here because they ride on the pavement.

  53. #53
    Snow Dog
    Reputation: str8edgMTBMXer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by formula4speed View Post
    You've never thought it would be safer to "challenge" other road users by taking the lane? Never had to take the lane to go around a parked car, road debris? The law lets you move over because there are a lot of common sense reasons you would need to do so. Whether or not people in cars are aware of those situations doesn't change that fact.
    No. I would NOT challenge a 2 ton vehicle moving at 40+ miles an hour to avoid debris. I would bunny hop it, or BH up the curb and then back down. Or - as I have to do many times - I slow down when I see the debris, and check behind for an opening in traffic and adjust my speed to fit in that opening around the debris

    In situations AROUND HERE where there are parked cars, the auto drivers are already in a different mind set (hopefully) then they are on an open highway/freeway/ or larger road with out side parking, so the are expecting things like this to happen. Speeds are slower (thought this doesn't matter really) and usually these type of raods are very highly marked for multi-use. The highway in the OP's post was probably NOT marked for multi-use, or at least he did not mention that it was

    Quote Originally Posted by formula4speed View Post
    I think common sense would dictate people in larger, deadly vehicles should be held to a higher standard that would involve not killing other road users. Motor vehicle crashes kill over 30,000 people a year in the US, but we talk like they are the safe option for getting around. If that's common sense, I say we challenge common sense.
    Dude, I am SOOOOO with you on this. Common Sense would fix MOST of the problems with main stream American society....but sometimes I think Common Sense has become un-American
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  54. #54
    Snow Dog
    Reputation: str8edgMTBMXer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    I totally "get" what you are saying.



    I also see the other side of the coin and wonder how many drivers misconstrue a cyclist's need to take control as a "dick" move because they fail to see/understand a set of condition(s) that might be deemed hazardous to the cyclist
    . We all need to remember that we can't be in someone else's head at any given time. My thought applies to how motorcyclists are treated as well. Undoubtedly, the general populace needs far more education and driver training pounded into their heads on the subject. Instead, we have so many operating motor vehicles without any clue as to the actual laws and rights of other users on the road.
    This is exactly what most of my non-biking friends think, and it drives me nuts. It is a lac of knowledge of the law. Now granted, we are all taught those laws once....when we are 15-18 depending on situation...so I can also see why ignorance is bred. When I was learning to drive - in 1984 in Ohio - we were taught that pedal bikes were NOT ALLOWED ON ANY ROAD where the speed limit was 45mph or higher. Now, there are no signs posted that say that, but it was in the booklet and classes. I don't know if that has changed, or is reworded differently now BUT, it MAKES SENSE to me regardless. Regarding the road I rode on on my commute that has the 50mph hour speed limit? If somethign bad happens to me on that road, it is MY FAULT, not the drivers, becasue I CHOOSE TO BREAK THAT LAW (written and common sense law). I deserve it. I have foun an alternate route now that I take 90% of the time, so it is sort of a moot point anymore.
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  55. #55
    Snow Dog
    Reputation: str8edgMTBMXer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    2,756
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I think it's ok to ride 2-3 abreast when there is no traffic behind, and we do that alot, but when traffic comes up from behind, usually the last rider calls out" car back" then we all merge over to a single file line.

    This...to me...is common sense. Being aware of, and adjusting to all situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I believe it's the pro riders or those wanna be pro riders who are sometimes guilt of blocking traffic, I've seen it up here where I live where some pros train and we have had stages of the TOC and the Redlands Classic.
    I think this is the total crux of the problem...in all activities, in all states, all age levels etc....
    Go practice. Figure it out. - Fleas

    15 Surly Krampus - King Amongst Bikes
    LET IT SNOW!

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    2,208
    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Not taking the right away IS the most dangerous thing and I agree - they are being nice but actually causing a much more dangerous situation (unpredictable/varying from the normal rules of the road behavior). Blinking light on the back, predictable behavior, not riding on the busiest roads at rush hour etc. is what will keep you the safest on the road. Also don't want cars piled up behind me...just pass...its ok...you clearly see me and won't hit me at this point and it causes more rage/impatience from the other motorists behind that driver.
    Exactly.

    You may irritate some driver, but presuming you are visible (high vis clothing, blinking light of consequence), you won't be run over. You, of course, would be checking to see that you are seen and that vehicles are granting you the right of way to take the lane. It's not different that defensive driving in a car. You wouldn't pull out in front of someone who clearly was refusing to give you the right of way and, if you are a good driver, you would have left yourself an out. This is as important (if not more so) on a bike as in a car.

    Irritation of a motorist does not constitute danger for you as a cyclist and is, as a matter of fact, irrelevant.

    J.

  57. #57
    I like turtles
    Reputation: TiGeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    6,335
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Exactly.

    You may irritate some driver, but presuming you are visible (high vis clothing, blinking light of consequence), you won't be run over. You, of course, would be checking to see that you are seen and that vehicles are granting you the right of way to take the lane. It's not different that defensive driving in a car. You wouldn't pull out in front of someone who clearly was refusing to give you the right of way and, if you are a good driver, you would have left yourself an out. This is as important (if not more so) on a bike as in a car.

    Irritation of a motorist does not constitute danger for you as a cyclist and is, as a matter of fact, irrelevant.

    J.
    Preach on brother. Defensive cycling is what I call and you are right...its just like driving. I ascert myself when I need to and its much safer when they see me taking the lane (when I can) than sitting on the side through a traffic circle and end up getting wrecked.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2018 Niner RKT 9 RDO - enduro AF

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    345
    With motorcycle the only way to stay alive is to ride like you are invisible. Any smart person riding a road bike should do the same. Heavier vehicle always win, it does not matter what the law is and most of the road riders don't understand it.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 38
    Last Post: 11-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  2. Angry Singlespeeder... now 20% less angry
    By Andrea138 in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-20-2013, 01:34 PM
  3. Chis King Rear hub angry bees not so angry
    By vinnyl26 in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-10-2013, 07:28 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-20-2013, 09:34 AM
  5. bootleg canyon,boulder city nevada
    By junedow in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-30-2010, 02:29 PM

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.