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  1. #1
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    Trailers.........?

    Is this the place to ask about trailers? If it is not, a mod can move this to the right place

    A little background. I live and work in Tokyo Japan, right downtown, in Shinjuku, well, just a couple of good baseball throws from "right downtown" I guess

    My lovely wife and I run her family's business, that is a liquor shop, among my many duties is doing the deliveries to restaurants and homes of customers. Right now I mainly use a three wheeled 50cc scooter, a Honda Gyro.

    It is a workhorse and I've put a ton of miles on it, I've rebuilt the clutch once and I've rebuilt the motor twice.

    The thing is about 80% of my deliveries are doable by a bicycle and trailer, and it would be a great way to get back into biking and get in shape.

    I'm rebuilding my old Cannondale right now, you can see that thread >> HERE << so I'll use that as my pull bike.

    I will build the trailer myself, I have a MIG welder and know how to use it, heck I built my own 14" bandsaw for my woodworking stuff

    I guess before I go any further, I'll ask again; is this where I should be asking about building a trailer for my bike?

    Cheers!

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    Stu, How much weight are you talking about? I'm thinking maybe modify a BOB Ibex to take 2 wheels on the swingarm so the bike and trailer are self standing when you stop to deliver. The suspension would work well for the, I assume, bottles and you could easily get 45Kg on there. The BOB connection to the bike is bullet proof and very simple to connect / disconnect when loaded or empty.

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm
    Stu, How much weight are you talking about? I'm thinking maybe modify a BOB Ibex to take 2 wheels on the swingarm so the bike and trailer are self standing when you stop to deliver. The suspension would work well for the, I assume, bottles and you could easily get 45Kg on there. The BOB connection to the bike is bullet proof and very simple to connect / disconnect when loaded or empty.

    Al

    Thanks for the reply Al, the thing is, I'm in Japan, and getting a BOB trailer might be a bit costly. I have the tools and the skills to build whatever I want, "Have MIG Welder, Will Travel"

    One case of beer weighs 27Kg, I would need to carry twice that on occasion, but usually closer to say 35 KG.

    Here in Japan, some of the FedEx kind of guys use bicycles with trailers to do parcel delivery......
    Trailers.........?-electric_bike_trailer.jpg Name:  electric_bike_trailer2.jpg
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    They all use a hitch that hooks up to the seat post, I think part of that is because they don't want the arm on the side....? Dunno, but there are a lot of them around now, and they seem to work well.

    There is a guy here who makes trailers, but the size is not exactly what I want.

    Some videos of said trailer and it's hitch.


    Trailer on the move


    How the hitch works

    I found the gimble thing here for about $8, and like I said, I can make the rest. My buddy owns a bike shop, (not a REAL bike shop, a local neighbour hood bike shop) and he gets throw away bikes from time to time, I've asked him to get me two 20" front wheels, they should work good for this.


    >> Bicycle Trailer <<
    Here is the website that sell that trailer, yes it is all in Japanese, but you can click around and take alook.

    Super light weight is not the main concern, I'm NOT going to be pulling this thing 8 hours a day, ease of use, safety, durability and reliability are important.

    I think I can do this, now I just have to do some more head scratching.

    Cheers!

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    Stu,

    If you're going to build it yourself might I suggest you use 700 c wheels or simular but keep the bed height right down low like the red 20" version. The reason for this is to keep the centre of mass of your load well below the pivot point, which is your axle. This will give you a very real increase in stability and make it easy to handle even pushing by hand, even with two wheels. I've modded a BOB Yak and Ibex to take 26" Endo's, 29"s overall, the Ibex was a screaming disaster because the builder did it his way and didn't follow my drawings, the load was far too high. The Yak was more successful but I'm having the bed lowered this week by another 100mm because of the pivot point issue. I carry around 50Kg regularly and tow off road and dirt tracks here in Oz.

    Here's a few links, I did quite a bit of research when deciding on mine. Not suggesting you buy but gather ideas instead.

    Al

    http://www.tonystrailers.com/singlewheelers/

    http://www.radicaldesign.nl/en/produ...rs/cyclone.php

    http://www.carryfreedom.com/products.html

  5. #5
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    Al, a BIG thanks for that, the first link, Tony's trailers, has a ton of info, great reading!

    I can get the 26" wheels with tires and tubes ready to do for free, maybe I will go that route. I was already planing on dropping the cargo carrying floor of the trailer fairly close to the ground, I just figured it would be better, but now reading that page I understand why it will be better, and more stable.

    Thanks!

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    Pleasure Post some pics when you get it done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm
    Pleasure Post some pics when you get it done.
    You bet, I'm a bit well known for posting a LOT of pictures when building something, mainly woodworking stuff.


    I talked to my buddy accross the street today, and said I'd changed my mind, I want two 26" wheels, the type the come on a regular Japanese bike, aluminum rims, 1 3/8" rims. He told me that he threw out SIX bikes like that LAST NIGHT

    Oh well, he will have a few more in the next week he figures.

    I'll be putting up my design, I'd sure appreciate some critique of the design when I get it up.

    Strong and light is the key I guess, I tend to WAY over build stuff, a card carrying member of the "When in doubt, build it stout" crowd.

    It will be fairly thin square tube steel.

    Cheers!

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    Sounds good.

  9. #9
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    OK, my Sketch up skills are slowly improving, but this is a basic concept.......

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer.jpg

    I did NOT draw them wheels, they were drawn by someone named Ben Wood, I modified the wheels slightly, took off the brake disk, but that is similar to the wheels I'll have, well mine will be a bit thinner and a much more smooth tread on the tires.

    I've got a lot more head scratching and SU work to do, but it is coming along.

    The tubing is all 1" square in this model, except for the ones no the very bottom, I'm thinking I'll put light expanded mesh in the frame work, dunno yet really, still at the "Huh?" stage

  10. #10
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    Another view.........

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_3.jpg

    More work to do on the trailer, I'm thinking of wooden slats on the bottom and on the sides of the cargo area, they would be durable (I'd use Ash for the wood) and light weight. I'll also be making some kind of brake, for each wheel hooked together, that when engaged would push against the tires, think old time wagon I would need something to stop the trailer from moving around while I'm loading and unloading it.

    Cheers!

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    Stu,

    Lookin' good, I'd be inclined to use a light mesh on the floor and sides, drains easily and is light and strong + doesn't eat into your cargo space. ie No loss of volume. For the draw bar I'd be inclined to make the two bottom rails long enough to come out and then sweep up with a curve that makes them meet in the centre line of the trailer and then follow a radius of the rear wheel of your bike as one tube, terminating at a hitch on the seat post. The top rails would then come out on the same plane, curve inwards to the centre line and intersect the tow bar (bottom bar) and simply terminate there. This would make the draw bar very strong.

    I'd like to be able to draw it for you but have no idea how to go about doing so !!!!

    Al

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm
    Stu,

    Lookin' good, I'd be inclined to use a light mesh on the floor and sides, drains easily and is light and strong + doesn't eat into your cargo space. ie No loss of volume. For the draw bar I'd be inclined to make the two bottom rails long enough to come out and then sweep up with a curve that makes them meet in the centre line of the trailer and then follow a radius of the rear wheel of your bike as one tube, terminating at a hitch on the seat post. The top rails would then come out on the same plane, curve inwards to the centre line and intersect the tow bar (bottom bar) and simply terminate there. This would make the draw bar very strong.

    I'd like to be able to draw it for you but have no idea how to go about doing so !!!!

    Al
    Al, I do understand what you are talking about, but I do not own a pipe bender, which, by far, would be the easiest way to do that.

    I've been fooling with SU some more.......
    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_back.jpg

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_bottom.jpg

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_front.jpg

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_left_side.jpg

    Trailers.........?-delivery_trailer_top.jpg

    Sorry for all the pics

    I'd like a more elegant curve or whatever, but I don't want to make it too complex either, as the more cuts I have to make and the more welding, which in turn, can give you more points of possible failure.

    Maybe I should invest in a pipe bender and then use some round pipe for this

  13. #13
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    Stu,

    If you build it the way you've drawn it now, you'll need a 45 (ish) degree vertical brace from the top horizontal bar of the tow bar to the top horizontal tube of the cargo frame. The tow bar as it stands now is inherently weak due to the fulcrum effect of the load and tow bar.

    I can give you a tip for bending pipe without a pipebender, find a nice flat surface like a beam, that is solidly held down. Wrap 3 or 4 turns of half inch rope loosely enough around it so you can slide your chosen diameter pipe under it. Pick the point where you want your bend to start and gently apply upwward pressure, don't over do it. Release the pressure and move the pipe along, repeating step 1. Simply keep doing this untill you have your desired curve. If you take it slowly and do it bit by bit you'll wind up with a nice smooth curve. Another way of bending pipe is to find an object that has the desired radius you require and then finding a way to secure one end of your pipe and then simply bend your pipe around the object. Because you require a gentle radius you can get away with it if you're careful in your approach. I've used both the mentioned methods successfully at work over the years.

    If you are successful in bending a piece of pipe you can then modify the draw bar section on your drawing to form an A frame, once braced, it would be more than adequate, strength wise, and would look quite professional. Who knows, you may get people placing orders........

    Al

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    Thanks for the info Al, I know a nice graceful curve would be MUCH better, I wonder how your bending technique would work with square tubing?

    I wish I knew a shop around here that would bend it for me, but most shops like that are not set up to take on walk in trade, and are usually quite closed to the idea, must be a Japan, or maybe better, a "Tokyo" thing

    Cheers!

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    I did a little research and I found >> THIS << page, loads of info on bending tubes

    I built the MDF jig, and even though I only had a fairly short piece of square tube, 2cm square, I was able to make a nice smooth bend!

    Trailers.........?-tube_bending_jig.jpg
    It was really simple, even with the short piece of tube, I was able to bend it using just muscle power, I did not have to use the larger piece of pipe that is laying on the bench.

    Trailers.........?-bent_tube_wheel.jpg
    Next to a wheel, you can get an idea of the size etc, this should work well.

    I'll be going to the DIY shop tomorrow to get some more steel tubes!

    Cheers!

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    Mate,

    That looks red hot, well done. It'll give your trailer a professional look. Now I think you can change to an A frame setup for your draw bar, it'll save weight and not sacrifice strength.

    Great site BTW, very practical.

    Al

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    Thanks, I was kind of surprised at how easy it was to do!

    Yep, a curved or bent A-frame I guess. I'll have to update my SU drawing.......... when I figure out curves that is

    Cheers!

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    I went out to the DIY home center place today. I got all the steel I need, I think, and I downsized the steel a bit more.

    I saw a number of hand carts that were rated anywhere from 100Kg to 500 KG and they were not nearly as stout as the trailer I'm planing on building, so I figured I can easily downsize the tubing from 2.5cm to 1.9 cm, it will still be very strong I think.

    Trailers.........?-small_tailer1.jpg Trailers.........?-small_trailer2.jpg
    Here is a little hand cart, it has 18" wheels and looks rather fragile, but it was rated to hold 100Kg (220 pounds) and the wheels were really wobbly, cost about $100. I looked at it as a possible unit to be modified, but then gave it up, too much work and I really did not think it was that well made.

    Trailers.........?-folding_aluminium_trailer.jpg
    Here is a better cart, and this one folds, the whole thing comes apart, all aluminum too, but nearly $400 and still not what I want. rated at 150 Kg, 20" wheels.

    Trailers.........?-big_tailer.jpg
    Then in the back I found this much larger cart in the back, about $550, and rated at 500 Kg built like a tank, and weighs as much too

    Trailers.........?-tailer_wheels.jpg
    They were selling wheels, but I have that covered, the 20" wheels are about $40 each with tubes and tires and the big trailer wheels are 25" and where $100 each and weighed about 25 pounds EACH!

    Trailers.........?-tube_cutter_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-tube_cutter_2.jpg

    Trailers.........?-tube_cutter_3.jpg

    I made up a jig to cut the tubes at a 45 angle using my sawsall, I do have a large abrasive cutter, but it never leaves a nice 45 and is always smelly with sparks and smoke, this is much nicer!

    Trailers.........?-mini_dumper.jpg
    Finally, just for fun, I saw this mini dumper in the parking lot

    Cheers!

  19. #19
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    I did some more fooling around on SU.................

    Trailers.........?-19_mm_trailer_front.jpg

    Trailers.........?-19_mm_trailer_left.jpg

    Trailers.........?-19_mm_trailer_rear.jpg

    I hope that is starting to look better

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    Stu,

    Looks good. I reckon it'll be very robust for what you require. I think it'll also be very easy to manoeuvre by hand when required. Looking forward to it's maiden voyage. Overload it and push it around by hand and to see if it flexes at all, do some fast sideway manoeuvre's.

    Al

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    Thanks Al

    I need to put some sizes on there, I think that it looks a lot bigger than it really is, maybe I'll import a mountain bike and put it in place, like it was ready to pull the trailer just for a reference

    It is going to be 75.6 cm wide and 83.9 cm long (not counting the draw bar, which is mostly over the back wheel of the bike) or 29 3/4" wide by 33" long.

    I'll be sure to do some testing with extra weight in if for sure, I would not want something to go wrong while it's loaded down with beer!

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    More fooling with SU, adjusting wheel size, and adding a little more clearance on the bottom of the trailer. I has about 3" now, and that may not seem like a lot, but the streets around here are really smooth, and no big curbs to hop.

    Trailers.........?-19mm_trailer_with_bike_rt_side.jpg

    Trailers.........?-19mm_trailer_with_bike_front.jpg

    Trailers.........?-19mm_trailer_with_bike_back.jpg

    I can't really start the build until I get the wheels and I get the bike on the road, as I need so check some critical dimensions, but I like how this model is looking

    Cheers!

  23. #23
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    My other hobby is woodworking, and I just got pointed to this thread over at OWWM.....

    >> Here <<

    This guy is seriously hardcore, hauling that much old arn with a bike and trailer

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    I'll also be making some kind of brake, for each wheel hooked together, that when engaged would push against the tires, think old time wagon I would need something to stop the trailer from moving around while I'm loading and unloading it.

    Cheers!
    If you don't need a brake while mounting/dismounting the bike with a loaded trailer but only while it is unattended, a simple chock will do. The wedges could be stored in a rack on the trailer with a tether to make sure they don't get left behind.

    The pivoting contact brake of a piece of bent flat steel like that used on wheelchairs is a rotating chock. If you need to activate and release the brake while on the bike, then consider these with a return spring, cable, and activating lever with a latch like a car's parking brake lever to pull, hold, and return these chocks to the off position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    If you don't need a brake while mounting/dismounting the bike with a loaded trailer but only while it is unattended, a simple chock will do. The wedges could be stored in a rack on the trailer with a tether to make sure they don't get left behind.

    The pivoting contact brake of a piece of bent flat steel like that used on wheelchairs is a rotating chock. If you need to activate and release the brake while on the bike, then consider these with a return spring, cable, and activating lever with a latch like a car's parking brake lever to pull, hold, and return these chocks to the off position.

    Hi Brian, thanks for the comments!

    I want a brake as a few of the places I have to load/unload stuff are sloped sidewalks, with quite a few people walking by. I'm figuring on something like a wheelchair, or imagine the brake on an old wagon, just something to push against the tire should suffice.

    Cheers!

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    Stu, If you can drop the bed hight and get away with it it'll certainly increase your stability and payload capacity.

    Had a look at the link, wild dude.....only draw back with his trailer is the fact his hitch would have a very high weight on it which in turn causes a lot of stress. Your wheel position is much better as you can 'balance' your load a lot easier to keep hitch weight to a minimum. A bit of weight biased to the front is always best but you don't want too much.

    BTW, that mini dumper, take off the cab and the bloody thing would near be small enough to tow behind the bike I'd like to see a couple of Aussie bricklayers gettin' into that cab......

    Al

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    Quote Originally Posted by alanm
    Stu, If you can drop the bed hight and get away with it it'll certainly increase your stability and payload capacity.

    Had a look at the link, wild dude.....only draw back with his trailer is the fact his hitch would have a very high weight on it which in turn causes a lot of stress. Your wheel position is much better as you can 'balance' your load a lot easier to keep hitch weight to a minimum. A bit of weight biased to the front is always best but you don't want too much.

    BTW, that mini dumper, take off the cab and the bloody thing would near be small enough to tow behind the bike I'd like to see a couple of Aussie bricklayers gettin' into that cab......

    Al
    Yeah, I have a small van like that, and it is kind of like a clown car when I'm getting in and out of it

    My cargo space will be about 3 1/2" off the ground, I think that is fairly low, and it should be really stable.

    Thanks for the help!

  28. #28
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    Stu ,how will you keep the bike upright while you are loading and unloading?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon
    Stu ,how will you keep the bike upright while you are loading and unloading?
    Just a simple side stand. The bike and the trailer are connected through a hitch that is much like a tie-rod end. The trailer will stand on it's own, of course, and with a simple friction brake will not move, the bike will lean on it's side stand.

    No problem..................... I think
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Just a simple side stand. The bike and the trailer are connected through a hitch that is much like a tie-rod end. The trailer will stand on it's own, of course, and with a simple friction brake will not move, the bike will lean on it's side stand.

    No problem..................... I think
    hope your right but a side stand on a hill on the wrong side is going to piss you off pretty quick. you'lll need to lock the wheels pretty tight and place things in there very gently to avoid up and down movement knocking it off the side stand. might be worth looking at http://www.biketrailershop.com/catal...tand-p-53.html

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    Wow, blast from the past, I used to have a kickstand like that on an old CCM bike I had as a kid

    I could do that, or adapt one of the typical stands that they use on the newspaper delivery bikes here.
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    The Xtracycle, Big Dummy, and the old delivery bikes (still made by Workman) have two legged stands. There has to be good reason for such consistency. A locking fork with a one-leg stand is another method to get a stable tripod.

    My brother's (then mine) old CCM had a pressed steel galvanized bipod stand (from Canadian Tire) with each leg geared together and a coil spring to keep them retracted. As they were used, the spring stretched and the legs would begin to have freeplay when retracted and a rattling noise like the fenders were falling off. Really crude and heavy (see 'clunky' in a picture dictionary and it's there) compared to that Swiss unit.

    Yes, (CCM reference made me loook, just noticed your by-line), the record golds were very nice way to break the dought, but the capper was the Hockey Gold on Canadian soil.

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    Well getting back to this build, I've almost got the bike together, just waiting on the headset to arrive, and I have gotten one free wheel from my buddy at the bike shop, and should get another in a week or so, but one is enough to start working on the trailer.

    Just to show you what kind of loads I plan to carry, here is my little 50cc three wheeled scooter that I usually do deliveries on....

    Trailers.........?-daily_load_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-daily_load2.jpg

    Not a little amount, but not too much either.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  34. #34
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    Belieive it or not, I found that stand for sale here.....

    http://www.unico-jp.com/w_stand.html

    I'm going to try to get one for sure.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  35. #35
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    I got started on the actual build today.

    I don't do a lot of welding in the Dungeon, not the best place in the world to be welding, so before I do start any welding I take the air hose and blow out any dust, and then I vacuum the place like a clean freak on speed

    I really go to town to make sure there is nothing down there that will catch on fire easily.

    When I'm done welding for the day, I make sure I stay behind at least an hour just to make sure and I again do a good solid clean up. I do have a VERY good exhaust system, it will empty the entire volume of the room ten times in a hour, so I do have lots of fresh air.

    I got the first bit of frame built and I should get the wheel mounts on tonight as well.

    All said and done, this is not going to be that big of a job, should go fairly quickly.

    Trailers.........?-build2.jpg

    Trailers.........?-build1.jpg
    Lousy iPhone pics


    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    Stu,

    You're on your way mate. I'll look again in a few days, I'm off on Tues 0730 to do a 500 Km offroad ride. I'll be towing my modded BOB Yak.

    Good luck with the build.

    Al

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    Thanks Al!

    Sounds like a serious trip, how many days? I imagine you will be camping? Hope it is sunny everyday

    I got some more done.......

    Trailers.........?-build_2_wheels1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-build_2_wheels2.jpg
    With both wheels attached. Only one wheel is a keeper, the other is junk, but I took it just to have a second wheel for the build. I'm sure I'll get another decent wheel in a week or so.

    Trailers.........?-build_2_wheels_cargo_mock_1.jpg
    Here I mocked up the cargo area, just to see, I gave it about 3 1/2" of ground clearance, for around town only, I think this will be more than enough, and I'll build it so the trailer is level when attached to the bike, maybe just a bit biased towards the bike I guess.

    Trailers.........?-build_2_wheels_cargo_mock_2.jpg
    This is the angle the trailer would take when not attached to the bike, not a steep angle at all.

    I realize that this set up would not be good for off-road, but I have zero intentions of ever taking it off-road, heck off-road is a LONG ways from downtown Tokyo where I live

    Tomorrow, I hope to get the rest of the cargo area done, welded up, I'm just about out of wire for my MIG, and the wire I have is a bit on the thick side, 0.9mm so I have to run the MIG hot and slow, not the easiest way to weld. If I can I'll get some more wire but thinner stuff, to make the welding easier.

    I think I'll paint this thing red, just like my bike and so I can call it my "Little Red Trailer"

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  38. #38
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    Stu,

    Looks great. I'd be inclined to keep it level. You can add bias by shifting weight in the bed, and yep, for around town that should be plenty of clearance. Only thing to watch for is dropping over curbs, not sure if that's an issue for you.

    I'll be on the track for a month and camping for the last 15, the first 15 night are in purpose built trail huts.

    Until this morning the weather has been great, 25 C and blue sky.....now it's raining, bloody typical....

    Catcha,

    Al

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    Wow Al, that is quite the trip, good for you!

    I hope you do a little write up of your trip when you get back, safe travels!
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    I got the main part of the trailer welded up.....

    Trailers.........?-main_body_done1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-main_body_done2.jpg
    I think it looks good, the welding is not perfect, I'm using fairly thick wire at a slow speed on thin tubing, so it is a bit messy.... Thanks goodness for the angle grinder

    Once my headset arrives and I can put m bike together, I'll be able to figure out the exact height the tow arms need to be.

    On to the brakes....

    Trailers.........?-brake_idea1.jpg
    I think this is the area that I'll be putting the brakes, the front part of the wheels.

    I'm thinking something like you would see on an old wagon, it is not to stop the trailer while in motion, but to keep it still while loading and unloading.

    Trailers.........?-brake_idea2.jpg
    Something like this with a crescent shaped shoe actually contacting the tire might just be all I need. It would be nice to link them together, but maybe that is going way over kill

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  41. #41
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    A sector of bike rim would give you the cresent you need for a shoe. They would jam tighter as the wheel rolls, especially forward. Don't see a need for a liner as they will not be worn by stopping the cart while it is in motion. Only if wet tires needed a more agresive surface like a piece of knobby or studded bike tire. Linking would likley cost more time, money, weight, and complexity than benefit, but woud be cool. A single hydraulic or air Master and twin actuators? A cocked spring and cable actuated spring release?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    A sector of bike rim would give you the cresent you need for a shoe. They would jam tighter as the wheel rolls, especially forward. Don't see a need for a liner as they will not be worn by stopping the cart while it is in motion. Only if wet tires needed a more agresive surface like a piece of knobby or studded bike tire. Linking would likley cost more time, money, weight, and complexity than benefit, but woud be cool. A single hydraulic or air Master and twin actuators? A cocked spring and cable actuated spring release?
    I really think just a simple hardwood shoe, maybe lined with leather or some old tire would do nicely............... not that I'm against the pneumatic actuated system... but the reasons that you mentioned, time, cost and weight will most likely see me go with something way simpler
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    What system are you using to secure the axles Stu? I like the hardwood blocks as well, two chocked on both sides of the tires. Simple effective and old school cool. Paint them yellow and you'll look very 安全.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon
    What system are you using to secure the axles Stu? I like the hardwood blocks as well, two chocked on both sides of the tires. Simple effective and old school cool. Paint them yellow and you'll look very 安全.
    When did "Anzen" become cool

    What do you mean about the axles? I have two tabs welded to the underside of the trailer frame that I drilled holes in and then cut slots, much like the ends of a fork, the wheel axles go into the slot and the bolts are tightened.

    Should work fine............... I think...........
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  45. #45
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    I was a safety officer in a factory here, anzen is very cool. Your tabs wil work great, I just hadn't seen any pics of them and wondered how you were going to attach the wheels. Another week and you should be rolling, looking forward to the rollout.

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    OK, Anzen is cool

    The main thing holding me up is the headset arriving from the US, I need to get the bike together so I can make sure the trailer will ride level etc when I make the draw bars.

    I too look forward to the roll out
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    I got my expanded mesh for the sides of the trailer....
    Trailers.........?-mesh_sides1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-mesh_sides2.jpg

    I think it looks not bad at all

    I also wanted to show how I put the tabs on for the axles.....

    Trailers.........?-axle_tabs_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-axle_tabs_2.jpg

    Nothing complex, but it works fine!

    I also got some "U" bolts to make the hitch mount, that will attach to the seat post.......

    Trailers.........?-hitch_mount_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-hitch_mount_2.jpg

    I'll most likely us a bit heavier gauge square tubing, as this will be a weak point, in fact, I might make the mounting plate a little bigger to give me more space to put down some mondo welds

    I'm still waiting on the headset for the bike to arrive, so I can put that together, then I can figure out the final height and length of the draw bars.

    Next up is some paint, and then the wooden floor.

    Cheers!
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    Go CANADA!

  48. #48
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    Looking good Stu! Whats the weight looking like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon
    Looking good Stu! Whats the weight looking like?
    Not sure, it is actually fairly light, the wheels are aluminum, and the tubes are all fairly light, I honestly don't know, certainly under 20Kg, I bet it is closer to 12 Kg or so, I can easily lift it by myself, no worries.

    I'll have to borrow the bathroom scale and find out
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    Did you consider camber and caster for the wheels? 3.5inches should be plenty of ground clearance unless you have steep hills to climb. Looks good, how much does the whole thing weight?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii
    Did you consider camber and caster for the wheels? 3.5inches should be plenty of ground clearance unless you have steep hills to climb. Looks good, how much does the whole thing weight?
    Hi Yogii

    I did not consider the caster and camber, I just put the two wheels parallel to each other as best I could.

    I don't know how much it weighs, it is not a lightweight aluminum trailer, but it was never meant to be, I'll not be hauling this on long touring rides, but on around the neighborhood deliveries for our liquor shop. No steep hills here, mainly on the flats that I'll be pulling this rig.

    I'm really excited to get it on the road, I know my neighbours and customers are going to look at me like I'm some kind of nut, but as I'm a foreigner here to start with, no big surprise there

    Cheers!
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    Go CANADA!

  52. #52
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    Having a good day today!

    My headset arrived, and the bipod bike stand also arrived, add to that I got the tow bar done on the trailer, so yeah, I'm having a good day!

    Using a piece of tubing that I bent as practice, and centering it on the trailer, I wanted to see how long the tow bars would have to be.......

    Trailers.........?-tow_bar_plan1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-tow_bar_plan2.jpg

    I would like to keep the trailer fairly close to the back wheel of the bike, but I do need some space, so there is some clearance.

    Trailers.........?-pivot_point.jpg
    I also wanted to put the pivot point fairly close to being over the rear axle, I figure this would be the best spot for it, if you look at the bolt I put on top of the tube.

    To bend the tubes I made a very simple, but effective bending jig.....

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_1.jpg
    Yes it is dog simple

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_5.jpg
    I make sure that the seam in the tube in against the jig, I got this info from the site that I found this jig on.

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_2.jpg
    I marked both tubes at the 40cm mark, so I could start from the same point.

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_3.jpg
    Then I just grab the tube and bend it, it really is easy to do, but I guess the length of the tube helps, as it acts like a lever.
    You can see the two black lines on the jig, this is the point that I bent the tube until, there is always some spring back.

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_4.jpg
    I just used the corner of the jig to check for a nice 90 degree bend, works well.

    Trailers.........?-bending_jig_6.jpg
    Here are the two bent tubes on top of each other, it is important to be able to bend them the same.

    Trailers.........?-laser_alignment_1.jpg
    I cut the tubes and then I tacked them onto the trailer. Once I had them lined up, but best I could, I broke out my laser level and had a look, the laser level was lined up with the very center of the trailer and the laser hits the very center of the tow bar, good enough for me!

    Cont................
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    Go CANADA!

  53. #53
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    ..... once I had the tow bars tacked in place, I went to town welding it up.

    Trailers.........?-tow_bar_done_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-tow_bar_done_2.jpg

    I think that looks good, it is very solid, I was a bit concerned that it would be a bit flimsy, but it is not, it is really skookum

    At the connection point of the two tow bars, I will add a plate, and maybe a cross piece as well....
    Trailers.........?-tow_bar_cross_brace.jpg

    That is just laying on top, I would cut it and weld it up so that it sits flush.

    Next will be the hitch and then the brakes, after that, paint.

    I'm really looking forward to the maiden ride, of both the bike and the trailer.

    Oh yeah, I weighed the trailer and as it sits now, it is just a tick under 17Kg, or 37.5 lbs, should come in around 40 lbs all done, not the lightest, but it should hold up to some use.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    ..... once I had the tow bars tacked in place, I went to town welding it up.
    Did you put the twist in the tow bars so they meet, before or after tacking them in place?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    ..... Oh yeah, I weighed the trailer and as it sits now, it is just a tick under 17Kg, or 37.5 lbs, should come in around 40 lbs all done, not the lightest, but it should hold up to some use. Cheers!
    Assuming the welds are strong even though you claimed them inelegant, the wheels and not the frame will be the limit on the carrying capacity. I have a steel reinforced plywood garden cart that isn't this well built, that is supposedly good for over 200 kg, The 22 mm axle is strong enough as are the heavy rims, the steel hubs, and large bearings, but I managed to bend a couple of spokes (welded in) with a load of firewood.

    However, towing and braking capacity are different matters, entirely!

    Looks great!

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    Thanks Brian!

    I got the bi-pod stand on the bike as well as the fork, finally, as I got the headset

    Trailers.........?-bipod_stand_install.jpg
    There is the bi-pod stand installed, it sure is slick and looks to be very stable!

    Trailers.........?-bipod_stand_spacer.jpg
    I did have to make a spacer for it, the legs of the stand were just a bit too short, but more importantly, the area on the bottom of my Canondale that the stand mounts to was not flat, one of the chainstays was a bit taller, or thicker, this made the stand sit cocked to one side. The spacer has a groove cut in it to make the stand sit flat.

    Trailers.........?-brakes_done.jpg
    I got the brakes done, and then realized that I did not get black cable guides, these ones look kind of odd, to me, but I also screwed up, and cut the short cable for the front brakes, which left too little cable for doing the one gear shifter Yes my bonehead card has been renewed

    Also, the knob things on the ends of the cables are too small (not meaning to sound too technical ) the holes in my brake levers are larger, I guess I need some sort of adapter or some cables with a bit bigger knob things

    The bike is really starting to look like a bike again......

    Trailers.........?-fat_pepperoni_fork.jpg

    ..... I just LOVE that big fat Pepperoni fork, looks much better, as the rest of the bike is really oversized tubes, the fork now looks right, the old steel one always looked too skinny.

    Cheers!
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    Go CANADA!

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    If the knob things are too small it probably means that you are using shifter cables with your brakes. Shifter cables are skinnier since they don't get the same amount of force as brake cables. I have never tried it but you will probably just get more cable stretch with the thinner cables.


    Other than that the bike and trailer look great. I was wondering though why you put the expanded mesh on the outside on the sides. it probably doesn't matter but I think it would have been stronger and prevent things from catching on the frame when being taken out of the trailer.


    You might also want to put some sort of solid wall on the front to protect your cargo from road grime.

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    Thanks for the info Eric.

    The brake cables are 1.6mm and the shifter cables are 1.2mm.

    I think the knobbie things are just fine, they seem to work fine, as I took the bike for a ride, just a quicky, as it was raining

    Trailers.........?-all_finished_1.jpg

    I put the expanded mesh on outside, as I did not want to loose cargo space, I did leave it fairly tight for size.

    Your idea about a solid piece in front is a good one, I won't be riding that far, nor on rainy days, but still, food for thought, thanks!
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    I put the expanded mesh on outside, as I did not want to loose cargo space, I did leave it fairly tight for size.
    The mesh tends to be a bit 'catchy' (gloves, skin), so I think outside isn't a bad idea from an ergonomic view. It will stil act to counter diagonal movement, and strength you have in spades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Your idea about a solid piece in front is a good one, I won't be riding that far, nor on rainy days, but still, food for thought, thanks!
    Having renoved a gooseneck truck trailer, I concur about a solid front panel being good in the rain. I suggest that a panel of the hollow core plastic panel that has the cross walls, cut to size and installed when needed. Not sure whether your streets generate wind tunnel effects, but removable panel(s) would be noce on a dry windy day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    The mesh tends to be a bit 'catchy' (gloves, skin), so I think outside isn't a bad idea from an ergonomic view. It will stil act to counter diagonal movement, and strength you have in spades.



    Having renoved a gooseneck truck trailer, I concur about a solid front panel being good in the rain. I suggest that a panel of the hollow core plastic panel that has the cross walls, cut to size and installed when needed. Not sure whether your streets generate wind tunnel effects, but removable panel(s) would be noce on a dry windy day.
    Brian, do you mean the stuff that looks like cardboard, but is made from plastic? That would work well, light weight and durable, not that I'll be riding much in the rain, if at all, the customers don't like their deliveries soaking wet

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    I got the hitch member that attaches to the seat post mostly done today, I also put my Blackburn rack on the bike. I looks like the tow bars will clear the rack just fine, unless I try any curb hoping, and then only if the bike is way off track to the trailer, not likely to happen, so I think it will be OK.

    Trailers.........?-hitch_work_2.jpg
    Here is where the trailer will sit in relation to the hitch gimble, so I have to add to the trailer to make up the difference, and something for the round bar on the gimble to go into, to make the connection between the two.

    Trailers.........?-hitch_unused_position.jpg
    This will be the position the hitch sits in when not in use, I will weld two flat pieces on either side of the tube, so the hitch will sit between them.

    Should work out fine.

    Tomorrow is Sunday, and I hope to take a trial run with the trailer in tow, then the brakes, paint and a wooden floor. Dunno if I'll get all of that done on Sunday or not, but I'll give it a good try
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    Good luck. Hope it's not snowing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon
    Good luck. Hope it's not snowing!
    Thanks, and yeah, there was snow on the ground this morning.....WTF

    It is the middle of April for crying out loud

    Supposed to be nice and sunny, spring like
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Brian, do you mean the stuff that looks like cardboard, but is made from plastic? That would work well, light weight and durable, not that I'll be riding much in the rain, if at all, the customers don't like their deliveries soaking wet

    Cheers!
    Exactly. I have a 6' x 6' Nixon (Liberal, Ontario) political poster made from it. Very light very rigid and fairly inexpensive. (Cheaper if you find a sign in the trash.)

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    Stu, dropped in to have a look at the progress. You're steamin' ahead and it's lookin' good.

    I could have done with a two wheel trailer a couple of times in the last few day, it wouldn't have 'fallen' over......

    I'm sure the test run will go just fine.

    Al

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    Al sorry about your tip overs, I hope there was no damage to anything. How is your trip going are you getting better weather now?

    My test run did go very well, I'm really, really pleased with this trailer

    Trailers.........?-test_ride_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-test_ride_2.jpg
    A couple of pics with the trailer hitched up ready to roll.

    Trailers.........?-test_ride_cases.jpg

    I then put a couple of cases of beer (the cases were empty bottle) and had a good run around the area, it worked just fine and dandy!
    You can certainly feel the trailer back there as the conection point is the seat post, so you fee the bumps and such from the trailer, but it really is not a big deal. The hitch has just a very little bit of play in it, but it sure bangs around and makes a fair bit of noise I'm sure I'll get used to it, as by the end of the ride I was already feeling fine with it, but at first I had to stop several times to make sure that nothing was loose, it was fine.

    Trailers.........?-test_ride_front.jpg

    The whole trailer is just a bit wider than the bars, you can't really see that in this pic, but I took it anyway

    I found that so far, I don't see any need for the brakes on the trailer, I parked the rig on the driveway beside the liquor shop, which has a fair slope to it and I just about threw the cases of empty bottles into the trailer and it did no move around at all, stayed put.

    I'm going to make a simple plywood bottom for the trailer and then use if for a week or so, to see how I like it and if I need to change anything, before I put paint on it.

    So far so good!
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    I just wanted to add this........
    Trailers.........?-concept_to_reality1.jpg
    ......from concept to reality, kind of neat eh?
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    Go CANADA!

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    I did my first delivery on the bike with the trailer.....

    Trailers.........?-1st_delivery_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-1st_delivery_2.jpg

    That is one case of 500ml beer, 2 cases of 350ml beer, two cases of 2 litre water and one case of can coffee. I weighed everything and the total is just over 60 Kg, or 130lbs, and I went down a bit of a hill, and such, no problems, thankfully the return trip was up hill, with an empty trailer I'm still in really lousy shape, so I don't know if I could have hauled my fat arse and all that beer and stuff up the hill.

    I'll be working on that every day!

    I figure I'll run the trailer as is for about a week or so, just to see how it is, then if I need to modify it, I can, without wreaking a paint job, when I've used it for a bit and I'm happy with it, I'll paint it.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by Stu In Tokyo; 04-19-2010 at 02:23 AM.
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    Awesome job. How is stability when you are loading and unloading? If you don't mind Stu a close up of the hitch would be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwisimon
    Awesome job. How is stability when you are loading and unloading? If you don't mind Stu a close up of the hitch would be appreciated.
    It is fairly stable, I still might add brakes to the trailer, but they might just be a chock wedged between the frame and the wheel, K.I.S.S. is a good thing

    A close up of the hitch, OK, but this video.....

    .... is basically what I copied

    VERY straight forward
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    +1 On great job. Now I have a couple of 'free' wheels, I might follow your lead.

    I see in later pics that the tongue arches don't mount flat on the trailer front, so they have just the arch and no twist. Much easier.

    I don't know what the ordinances are, but maybe you want the shops name and We Deliver! in Japanese script, of course on the trailer sides, or like the old bakery delivery bikes, on a panel that clips into the frame between top, down and seat tubes. The lower ones on the trailer would be less of a wind issue. I would guess there aren't a lot of round eyes doing bike delivery so you may as well get some commercial mileage out of the novelty.

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    Thanks Brian, and I'm sorry I did not answer you question about twisting the tubes earlier, I meant to, but forgot

    I've lived here for 20+ years, and I've been working full time at the liquor shop for about 15 of those years, no real need to push our name or the fact that we deliver, but, it might make the trailer less of an item someone would want to steal, if it had the shop's name plastered all over it

    Yes, theft happens here, and bicycle theft is really bad. That reminds me, I need to get a new registration sticker for this bike, as I peeled it off when I refinished it.

    Tomorrow I head to the bike shop for a new lock, a light and some other sundry stuff.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    Nice! I second the core plastic liner. If fact you should have used it for your side panels, much lighter than the mesh. 1/4" for the sides, 1/2" for the bottom. Any sign shop will have it!
    If you lived in the States, I would say send your trailer to Spectum to get a worthy PC job.
    What was wrong with your scooter????? I dug that!

    So what is the best Japanese beer?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii
    Nice! I second the core plastic liner. If fact you should have used it for your side panels, much lighter than the mesh. 1/4" for the sides, 1/2" for the bottom. Any sign shop will have it!
    If you lived in the States, I would say send your trailer to Spectum to get a worthy PC job.
    What was wrong with your scooter????? I dug that!

    So what is the best Japanese beer?
    Thanks!

    I would not mind subbing out the paint job, it is a pain in the butt.

    Nothing is wrong with my scooter, but I'm trying to get my fat old arse back into shape, sitting on a 2-smoke scooter when I do my daily deliveries around town is not helping that, but riding around on my bike with a trailer should. Also I'll use the bike to run around town for other things, like going to the bank etc.

    Japanese beer, well most of the major brands are just that major brands, they are OK, certainly drinkable, but nothing special. For me the one that stands out is Asahi Stout, but it is only made once a year and very limited quantities, and I have to fight with my wholesaler to get a case or two. I it actually handmade, not all computerized, the older brewmasters at Asahi make the younger guys make this beer, this way they have to learn how to actually make beer, not just program stuff into a computer, but like I said, it is very hard to get, even for me, running a liquor shop in Tokyo.

    There are some decent micro brews here as well.

    For anything you might see stateside, I'd suggest Sapporro Yebisu, if you can find it, usually a gold can, this is a bit heavier beer than their regular stuff and from all of the national brands, I like it best.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  74. #74
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    Today, I cut some blocks for really simple brakes.....
    Trailers.........?-wheel_chocks_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-wheel_chocks_2.jpg
    ....can't get much simpler than that

    They worked really well too, so I might just weld on some holders for them on the front of the trailer, if I have the space.

    After that picture was taken, I stopped by the local bicycle shop, and he had a better wheel for me, as one wheel I have is wonky, has a bent axle and broken spokes. This wheel is nice and straight, but is quite rusty, I'll use it until I get a better one from him, as the price was right..... FREE

    I also put a bit of old floor mat from the Dungeon into the trailer, to cushion the ride a bit, as things to rattle around a bit, this certainly helped.

    I also had a funny mystery solved, I was getting this fairly high pitched rattle, almost a pinging sound, I was worried that one of the wheels had more busted spokes, but even when I changed to the better wheel I still had this sound, it was very odd, and sort of worrying. I then took the large "U-shackle" lock that I was using out of the bed of the trailer.... strange sound GONE I guess the very hard steel of the U-shackle lock was banging against the cross bar of the lock, rattling around, making a lot of noise. Now the noisiest thing on the rig, besides me sucking wind, is the hitch itself, there is a slight bit of play in it, so I may end up drilling the hole with a bit tighter clearance, to see if I can take up some of that slop.

    Still having fun with this, and you should see the funny looks I get......... above the usual funny looks that is

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Today, I cut some blocks for really simple brakes.....can't get much simpler than that ....I might just weld on some holders for them on the front of the trailer, if I have the space.
    Suggestion FWIW: since the front corners of the trailer might be a pedestrian hazard to the nearly terminally clumsy, Maybe the blocks could have a rubber side for ankle contact when mounted on the font corners (not parked)? Stationary, its their own fault.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Still having fun with this, and you should see the funny looks I get......... above the usual funny looks that is
    Cheers!
    Yeah. I carted home a bike full of groceries in panniers and containers up a grade into the wind spinning away at maybe 10 mph. Kept thinking, this is a great workout, why am I enjoying this so much? Fat heavy tires, as aero as a barn door, it shouldn't be this much fun. I understand the Big Dummy croud, now.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Suggestion FWIW: since the front corners of the trailer might be a pedestrian hazard to the nearly terminally clumsy, Maybe the blocks could have a rubber side for ankle contact when mounted on the font corners (not parked)? Stationary, its their own fault.
    I am concerned that I'll catch someone with one of them corners, so I'll most likely chop them off at a 45 to make them much safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Yeah. I carted home a bike full of groceries in panniers and containers up a grade into the wind spinning away at maybe 10 mph. Kept thinking, this is a great workout, why am I enjoying this so much? Fat heavy tires, as aero as a barn door, it shouldn't be this much fun. I understand the Big Dummy croud, now.
    Yesterday I went around to various bike shops, 5 in total looking for a new helmet, my old one has all the pads rotted away, and has seen its fair share of use and abuse, time for a new one. A buddy here has a cool helmet, it is an OGK Cliff.....

    Name:  ogk_cliff_white.jpg
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    .... it is a freestyle and skater helmet, but it will be a lot more durable for daily use. I had trouble finding one, none of the bike shops sell it, so I spent a fair bit of time on the bike, around town, in traffic, and in areas of high foot traffic, maybe a couple of hours, which may not be much time for you guys on a bike, but for me, as a born again it is a good first step. After I told my buddy I could not find that helmet, but I did not really care, as I got some good riding in he said..... "The trip is never wasted, if it is on a bike" so yeah, I know what you mean about having fun.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  77. #77
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    I got the fenders on the bike, and I am using the trailer daily for deliveries

    Trailers.........?-fender_on_daily_load.jpg

    Here it is in working trim, I'm getting close to painting it.

    I decided that I wanted a bit more cushioning as things were banging around a bit too much, so I ordered some fatter tires but for now, I lowered the pressure in the tires I have (they were pumped up too much) and I now strap stuff down, and the results were great, much smoother.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  78. #78
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    Looking good Stu!

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    Wow. I've just caught this story. Great job! I wish I had the ability to fabricate things like you have. I can cope with timber, but fabricating in steel is just a whole other ball game.

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    Thanks Simon and Adam!

    I think I have the brake idea solved, as my buddy at the local bike shop is tossing out the old shopping bikes that I'm getting front wheels from, I could also get two sets of front brakes, and attaching them to the trailer so they work as brakes...... brilliant eh

    I'll get some cables and work up some kind of a locking lever
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  81. #81
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    I did some tweaking on the trailer today, I totally rebuilt the hitch, it is s the same design, just much tighter tolerances, the old one was quite loose and rattled around a lot. The new one is as tight a tolerance as I could get, the hitch slips together and the lock that holds things in place has a nice tight fit too I took it for a test ride and the difference was amazing, I've cut maybe 90% of the noise from the trailer

    I also modified the front corners of the trailer.....

    Trailers.........?-cut_corner1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-cut_corner2.jpg

    I hope that if I ever come to close to something, this would just bounce off, I feared that the square corner I had before would catch and dig in, causing me to come to a very quick stop and bounce on the pavement.

    Well that is it, I'm still enjoying this, got to figure out the brakes yet, but that is a work in process

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  82. #82
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    Yeah. Your shins will love you for that mod.

    A related question since the 'tow vehicle' has been a secondary part of the main topic. Did you sand and paint your frame yourself, or send it out? If you did it yourself, any tips things you'd do differently?

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Yeah. Your shins will love you for that mod.

    A related question since the 'tow vehicle' has been a secondary part of the main topic. Did you sand and paint your frame yourself, or send it out? If you did it yourself, any tips things you'd do differently?
    I did it all myself, sending it out was just not in the budget.

    If you are painting aluminum, like I was, make sure you get the right primer for it, and put several coasts on. Sand lightly between coats of paint to get a smooth finish, all the usual stuff, but the biggest point I can say to you is to wait a good week, ten days is even better since you last coat of paint, and your clear-coat. I only waited about 24hrs, and I ended up having to sand off nearly all the clear coat and start again. For some reason, my paint did not harden as quickly as I thought it would. 10 days later, when I did it again, it worked very well indeed, the paint is not bad at all for a backyard (or rooftop in my case) rattle can DIYer job. Also, think about how you are going to hang the frame when you paint it, I hung mine from three different points, this way I got three very different directions to apply the paint and clear-coat, makes for a more even coverage. I put six coats of paint on and at least that many of clear coat, yes, it took some time drying in between, but I had time, as I was waiting on parts.

    I hope that helps
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    I did it all myself, sending it out was just not in the budget.
    Yeah, $300 paint jobs are not in mine, either. But the touch ups almost exceed original paint and I am through the primer again at the DT shifters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    If you are painting aluminum, like I was, make sure you get the right primer for it, and put several coats on..
    Steel. Do you hand sanded to metal all over? Or did you leave some primer in the tough spots. If so did that shortcut work OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Sand lightly between coats of paint to get a smooth finish, all the usual stuff, but the biggest point I can say to you is to wait a good week, ten days is even better since you last coat of paint, and your clear-coat. ... the paint is not bad at all for a backyard (or rooftop in my case) rattle can DIYer job.
    Yeah the touchups are bad enough that a decent ratttlecan job will be an improvement. Lokks great from 3' but closer?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Also, think about how you are going to hang the frame when you paint it,...I put six coats of paint on and at least that many of clear coat, yes, it took some time drying in between, but I had time, as I was waiting on parts. I hope that helps
    So THAT's the reason for the air quality alerts in Tokyo a month or two back!

    Like refinishing or finishing furniture, it's 90% preparation, 10% application, and 100% trepidation!

    Guess I need to order new transfers.

  85. #85
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    Taking paint off of metal, aluminum or steel, heat is your friend, if you don't have a decent heat gun, buy one, they are very useful.

    Heat up the paint and strip it off with a thin flexible scraper, then where you have the lugs and any places that are hard to get at, hand sanding and a drill with a wire brush work wonders, it just takes time, but you can certainly do it, heck I did
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Is this the place to ask about trailers? If it is not, a mod can move this to the right place

    A little background. I live and work in Tokyo Japan, right downtown, in Shinjuku, well, just a couple of good baseball throws from "right downtown" I guess

    My lovely wife and I run her family's business, that is a liquor shop, among my many duties is doing the deliveries to restaurants and homes of customers. Right now I mainly use a three wheeled 50cc scooter, a Honda Gyro.

    It is a workhorse and I've put a ton of miles on it, I've rebuilt the clutch once and I've rebuilt the motor twice.

    The thing is about 80% of my deliveries are doable by a bicycle and trailer, and it would be a great way to get back into biking and get in shape.

    I'm rebuilding my old Cannondale right now, you can see that thread >> HERE << so I'll use that as my pull bike.

    I will build the trailer myself, I have a MIG welder and know how to use it, heck I built my own 14" bandsaw for my woodworking stuff

    I guess before I go any further, I'll ask again; is this where I should be asking about building a trailer for my bike?

    Cheers!
    Dude. Are you the guy that cut up those trees with the chainsaw mill? Can't remember all the details but you were loading the slabs in a toyota mini-van. You have a big resaw bandsaw in your basement and rehabbed a big jointer after lowering it through some crazy steps?
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlliKat
    Dude. Are you the guy that cut up those trees with the chainsaw mill? Can't remember all the details but you were loading the slabs in a toyota mini-van. You have a big resaw bandsaw in your basement and rehabbed a big jointer after lowering it through some crazy steps?
    Yep, guilty as charged!

    You can see some of my adventures at my website (which really needs a few updates)

    www.ablett.jp/workshop

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  88. #88
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    Stu, Things have progressed and are looking good, well done.

    Al

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    Thanks Al!

    Now if the weather would just cooperate, bloody rain again!

    How is the trip going, have you started a thread on it hear?

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  90. #90
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    An update on the trailer, I've been using it daily for a week or so now, and while I'm going to make some changes, but basically, I'm really pleased with the trailer

    Today I took my heaviest load yet, it was not far, just down the street, must have been about 200 pounds worth, and boy could I feel it behind me as I rode very carefully.

    Trailers.........?-heaviest_load_yet_1.jpg Trailers.........?-heaviest_load_yet_2.jpg

    Yep, I made sure I had lots of room to stop if I needed to, but it went smoothly, thank goodness there are no big hills around here!

    Trailers.........?-heaviest_load_yet_at_customer.jpg
    Here I am at the customer's shop, a sushi shop. Notice I have the brakes applied (the wooden blocks) I really needed them, as the sidewalk slope quite a bit here.

    The major change I'm going to make to the trailer is to change to rear wheels. Now I'm using front wheels from the Japanese "Mama Chari" bicycles, they are nice and simple, free and light weight. I'm changing to the rear wheels, because they have a built in hub brake, that is activated by a simple cable.

    Trailers.........?-brakes1.jpg
    Trailers.........?-brakes2.jpg
    Trailers.........?-brakes3.jpg
    there are two kinds available, one is an external band that is tightened around a brake drum, the other is much like the old brakes in cars before disc brakes, having two shoes.

    I don't think it really matter which I get, as long as I get all the bits for the brakes to attach to the trailer, as these will be parking brakes only.

    Name:  brakes4.jpg
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    There is a kind of arm that attaches to the bikes chain stay, then it is just a simple cable.

    I should have done this from the start

    The rear hub assembly is wider, but not that much, so I'll not have to hack the frame of the trailer, just the mounting tabs.

    I'll wait until my bike shop buddy gets me two good wheels, then I'll break out the angle grinder and the welder.

    I need to get this thing painted, it is starting to rust!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  91. #91
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    Over the weekend I stared to modify the trailer to accept the rear wheels, which have brake drums on them. The problem is that the rear wheel hubs are a good 2cm wider than the front wheel hubs.......

    Trailers.........?-brake_hub_wheel_no_fit.jpg
    I removed the sprocket assembly, it was in the way, but you can clearly see that this hub just ain't going to fit

    Trailers.........?-brake_hub_wheel_right1.jpg Trailers.........?-brake_hub_wheel_right2.jpg
    Trailers.........?-brake_hub_wheel_right3.jpg Trailers.........?-brake_hub_wheel_right4.jpg
    After cutting the rails, and then adding piece, and welding everything up, this is how it looks, with some pics of the brakes too.

    Trailers.........?-left_brake_del_lock.jpg
    Trailers.........?-delivery_lock_open.jpg
    Trailers.........?-delivery_lock.jpg
    Something else that I added is a lock for when I'm doing a delivery, often I have to go into an apartment building, so I'm a little worried that someone would nick my bike and trailer, so I lock them, but it is a pain, and takes time etc, plus the lock that I use is really only a "Nuisance" lock,that is a "Nuisance" to use and only a "Nuisance" to a real bike thief

    This is a typical lock on a typical Japanese shopping bike or a "Mama Chari", the large hardened steel section slides around and locks the wheel from turning. When I lock things up at home, I use a much better lock, and lock it too something.

    Trailers.........?-brakes_off.jpg
    Trailers.........?-brakes_applied.jpg
    I ran some cables and used this lever clamp thing for my parking brake lever, works well, the wheels are locked in place!

    Now I have to pull the wheels again, and put the tires on, and I have to refine my work a bit, make some cable end stops etc as well.

    I hope this works as planned, the one thing that is wrong with the trailer set up is the no parking brakes, often with a heavy load, it is difficult to park, as the trailer just wants to run away, pulling the bike over with it.

    Now I get it back on the road, and try it out, then paint!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  92. #92
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    P-brake looks great! I'd bring the cables up a bit so their more parralel with the path of travel (pull of the bar) look @ how they do it on a car- so to speak..... Otherwise I've really been enjoying this whole thread! Great work!!!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

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    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    P-brake looks great! I'd bring the cables up a bit so their more parralel with the path of travel (pull of the bar) look @ how they do it on a car- so to speak..... Otherwise I've really been enjoying this whole thread! Great work!!!

    Thanks Kimo!

    I took your advice.......

    Trailers.........?-parking_brake_lever_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-parking_brake_lever_2.jpg

    ........certainly not elegant, but boy are those wheels locked solid

    Now I have to do some more test runs, then comes the painting thing..... that should be fun
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

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    Oh yeah, I wanted to ask if anyone knows where I can buy some cable guides? The kind that are pop riveted on would be perfect!

    Cheers!
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    Go CANADA!

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    OK, I guess they are called "Housing Guides!

    Like this....

    Name:  housing_guide.jpg
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    Dunno if anyone makes such a thing anymore...?
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    Since you are going to be riveting them to the trailer frame I'd suggest a low cost P-clamp from your hardware store rather than a bike specific part.

    Doesn't even need to be rubber coated.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Since you are going to be riveting them to the trailer frame I'd suggest a low cost P-clamp from your hardware store rather than a bike specific part.

    Doesn't even need to be rubber coated.
    Brilliant, no why didn't I think of that

    Thanks!
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    Go CANADA!

  98. #98
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    The parking brake looks great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericpulvermacher
    The parking brake looks great.
    Thanks, I've been unable to test run it, as it has been pissing rain for two days straight

    I've had it hooked up in the covered parking area, but not with a load on a delivery. People are strange, the don't want their cardboard boxes of beer delivered soaking wet

    Tomorrow, it should be decent weather
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  100. #100
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    It stopped raining for a while today, I was able to do my deliveries via the bike and trailer!

    I took a short two and a half minute video of the bike and trailer, showing off my new parking brake and lock I use when parked on deliveries.



    As you can see in the video, the bike, with the parking brake applied to the trailer is very stable. Even with a heavy load, the trailer is not going anywhere and will not be pulling the bike over either.

    I'm really pleased with how this has worked.

    If I had it to do all over again, I'd raise the bed of the trailer by an inch, I have a couple of places where the bed of the trailer bottoms out, but it is only a light touch, nothing major, thus another inch of clearance would solve that problem, but it is really no big deal.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Thanks Kimo!

    I took your advice.......

    ........certainly not elegant, but boy are those wheels locked solid

    Now I have to do some more test runs, then comes the painting thing..... that should be fun
    Looks good! nice work! Now get some paint on that thing!!
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

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  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Looks good! nice work! Now get some paint on that thing!!
    Thanks!

    In about two weeks, I'm really busy this weekend the Mikoshi festival in the hood, and as we are the beer shop, we are kept busy, but yeah, needs paint for sure!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  103. #103
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    And another very short video showing the gravity at work without the parking brake applied.......



    Yep, that parking brake really does work well!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  104. #104
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    Well I finally got my trailer painted, took a couple of days, I had to clean all the rust off it and do some minor repairs and upgrades, that is welding, then two good coats of the Rust Inhibitor paint, and then two coats of RED paint to match my bicycle

    I think it turned out OK

    Trailers.........?-bike_trailer_painted_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-bike_trailer_painted_2.jpg

    What would I have done differently?

    I would have given myself another inch of ground clearance, as it is now, there is only one or two spots in my area that I can make the trailer hit on, but it only tags it, it is not a hard HIT, so I'll live with that, the second thing I'd change is I'd use a bit thicker tubing for the tongue of the trailer that part that curves up from the trailer bed to the back of the bicycle where the hitch is, what I have now flexes a bit, when I've got about 200 pounds on there

    Really, all in all it has exceeded my expectations.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  105. #105
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    WOW!!! Now THAT is a bike trailer!!! Nice! Only thing I would improve is the length of the cargo area—I’d increase it by about 150mm on the length.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker
    WOW!!! Now THAT is a bike trailer!!! Nice! Only thing I would improve is the length of the cargo area—I’d increase it by about 150mm on the length.
    +1 And maybe add the black fenders for that integrated look.

    Note Leopold: no lights or reflectors. Not OUR riding environoment where they don't see you unless you are lit up like Vegas!

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    +1 And maybe add the black fenders for that integrated look.

    Note Leopold: no lights or reflectors. Not OUR riding environoment where they don't see you unless you are lit up like Vegas!
    Thanks guys, I'm really happy with it.

    The bike has lights front and rear, and the trailer has rear reflectors on it, and I am going to add a light I have on the trailer too, it is a neat little rear red light that has a sensor it is, so it comes on when it is dark and there is movement, and it has a mini solar panel, so it charges the battery in the day time. I don't right much at night, this time of year, but in the winter, it will be dark when I do some of my deliveries.

    Fenders, not going to happen, one they are not cheap, two the add weight and three, I don't pull the trailer in the rain, so they are of no use.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    +1 And maybe add the black fenders for that integrated look.

    Note Leopold: no lights or reflectors. Not OUR riding environoment where they don't see you unless you are lit up like Vegas!
    His design seems to offer plenty of mounting options.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  109. #109
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    Awesome work! Wish you were around here to build me a nice hitch trailer for my bikes! If I may add a suggestion...

    If you are worried about rain etc, why not build a top to the trailer? Another bar coming off of the back that rests over the top of the cargo with a rounded roof? Hard to explain, but you probably know what Im talking about! Judging from your skills, you could probably make a roof for it that could swing back so you can load/unload. Granted, you would still be wet but the clients don't care about you, as long as their order is dry!

    Excellent job!

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthewalan8
    Awesome work! Wish you were around here to build me a nice hitch trailer for my bikes! If I may add a suggestion...

    If you are worried about rain etc, why not build a top to the trailer? Another bar coming off of the back that rests over the top of the cargo with a rounded roof? Hard to explain, but you probably know what Im talking about! Judging from your skills, you could probably make a roof for it that could swing back so you can load/unload. Granted, you would still be wet but the clients don't care about you, as long as their order is dry!

    Excellent job!
    I've though about it, and I know I could do it, I could even make a removable top, so on nice days I don't have to use it, but even when it rains here it often rains for a while then stops, we seldom get days and days of heavy rain, and when we do, I use my Subaru mini van.

    Right now, I don't think I'll build a top, but you are correct in thinking it would be possible.

    Thanks for the comment!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  111. #111
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    Didn't see that anyone else suggested this, and don't know if it's even allowed:

    Have you thought about posting this build over at bikeforums.net? they have a forum just for trailers. Lots of good stuff there, and this wonderful build would fit right in.

    Absolutely LOVE your skills in building this trailer! FANTASTIC!

    link to the trailer thread on bikeforums: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...railer-thread.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlie_r
    Didn't see that anyone else suggested this, and don't know if it's even allowed:

    Have you thought about posting this build over at bikeforums.net? they have a forum just for trailers. Lots of good stuff there, and this wonderful build would fit right in.

    Absolutely LOVE your skills in building this trailer! FANTASTIC!

    link to the trailer thread on bikeforums: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...railer-thread.
    Hi Charlie, I posted the trailer over there but not a build, I'm stuck for time right now
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  113. #113
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    Stu,

    Looks great. Love the parking brake/lock. I did the same sort of thing a couple years ago for a utility bike trailer. I used 1" square steel tubing but made it so I can have a basket (drop in liner), hook-on deck, attach plywood for a bigger deck or go across the top rails for other large items. I really over-built it...I've have well over 100# in it and it could probably haul over 200# if my legs would take it (I'm in a city with a river valley going through the centre....too many hills to trailer more than 75#!).

    Here are some pics:

    The original design phase:


    During fabrication:


    The finished product (without the liner in and with slicks for the time being):


    As if four times wasn't enough-> Psycho Mike's 2013 Ride to Conquer Cancer Page

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  114. #114
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    how does your trailer pivot? is it a bearing or something? or looks like a tow hitch! cool build! and the cannondale to match!

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mike
    Stu,

    Looks great. Love the parking brake/lock. I did the same sort of thing a couple years ago for a utility bike trailer. I used 1" square steel tubing but made it so I can have a basket (drop in liner), hook-on deck, attach plywood for a bigger deck or go across the top rails for other large items. I really over-built it...I've have well over 100# in it and it could probably haul over 200# if my legs would take it (I'm in a city with a river valley going through the centre....too many hills to trailer more than 75#!).

    Here are some pics:

    The original design phase:


    During fabrication:


    The finished product (without the liner in and with slicks for the time being):



    Thanks Mike!

    Great looking trailer, I'm sure you get a lot of use out of it!

    I am really pleased with mine, I'm very glad that I opted to put the bed of the trailer below the wheels axles, this really makes it stable when towing, having the center of gravity lower. I too have had a LOT of weight on my trailer and while I had to pump the tires up a bit, everything worked out fine!

    I have one customer that lives about 6 km away, and I have to go down a steep hill then up a steep hill, all while towing the trailer with 10 large bottles of sake on board, the trailer weighs 23kg/51 lbs and the sake weighs 32kg/71lbs for a total of 55Kg/122lbs. It is quite the workout going up the hills and you really have to be careful going down hill to not go too fast. I do wish I had a bike with disk brakes

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by broomhandle
    how does your trailer pivot? is it a bearing or something? or looks like a tow hitch! cool build! and the cannondale to match!
    If you are talking about my trailer, well I basically copied this idea..........



    Why reinvent the wheel

    It works great!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  117. #117
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    I have seen your bicycle trailers, they are really nice one. I also want to know about its cost. I think they are very economical and its a step to go green. It will helpful to some extent to solve the climate change problem. For some small low weighted utility we can use this bicycles to courier this utility with the help of bicycle cargo in the nearby areas.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Well I finally got my trailer painted, took a couple of days, I had to clean all the rust off it and do some minor repairs and upgrades, that is welding, then two good coats of the Rust Inhibitor paint, and then two coats of RED paint to match my bicycle

    I think it turned out OK

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What would I have done differently?

    I would have given myself another inch of ground clearance, as it is now, there is only one or two spots in my area that I can make the trailer hit on, but it only tags it, it is not a hard HIT, so I'll live with that, the second thing I'd change is I'd use a bit thicker tubing for the tongue of the trailer that part that curves up from the trailer bed to the back of the bicycle where the hitch is, what I have now flexes a bit, when I've got about 200 pounds on there

    Really, all in all it has exceeded my expectations.

    Cheers!
    Stu,

    Great looking trailer, and excellent write up. I've really enjoyed following the progress along. If I may, I have some thoughts/ideas, that could potentially help with your "done differently" category.

    For the stiffer tubing, while I'm not an ME, I'd suggest adding another brace mid way @ the radius. I'd imagine that this additional bracing would add a little more rigidity to the hitch.

    For ground clearance, perhaps look for a larger tire? I realize that by going with a larger tire your contact patch also increases and makes the rolling resistance greater, but it would give you a smidge more ground clearance and the larger volume tire would also be a bit more "cushy" for the delicate loads you are hauling.

    Again, what a cool build!

    Cheers,

    FB

  119. #119
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    Thanks Bob!

    I could add a brace, but for now it seems to be OK, if I were to go to the trouble of adding a brace, I think I would also take the time to put a spacer in to lift the mounting point of the wheels, this could easily give me the extra inch I want. I have the largest, fattest tires I can get on these rims, well get at a reasonable price, they are NOT standard 26" wheels, they are for the Japanese shopping bikes, so my selection of tires are limited.

    Thanks for the kind words and the suggestions
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  120. #120
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    Stu, amazing work yet again! I'm forwarding this thread to my brother who is looking to fabricate a trailer to use while hunting in Oregon. I'm sure he'll get plenty of good ideas from your design .

  121. #121
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    I might of just bought this, but Im lazy.....

    http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/surly_trailer/

  122. #122
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    An update on my trailer, I've been using the heck out of it and have had zero problems, until yesterday....

    My fault, of course The part of the hitch that looks like a tie-rod end, well when I ordered one from the Japanese website, I mixed up the kanji for right and left, and I got one that had a left hand thread inside it I drilled it out a bit and then stuck the right hand threaded bolt I had already made into it, to keep it in place, I drilled a hole through the hole thing and put a bolt in there.
    Trailers.........?-trailer_hitch_fail_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-trailer_hitch_fail_2.jpg

    Trailers.........?-trailer_hitch_fail_3.jpg

    Trailers.........?-trailer_hitch_fail_4.jpg
    So by weakening the structure and then putting a hold through it, well it gave up the ghost on me. Luckily, it happened just after I had dropped off 3 large cases of beer at a customer's place, so no harm done but to my ego.

    I had the right part on hand, as I had ordered it as soon as I realized my error. I had everything fixed and ready to roll in under an hour

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  123. #123
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    Oh bugger...... :notamused:

    The neck part of my trailer, where it connects to the trailer has busted.

    When I came back from a delivery (another heavy one) I felt the back of the trailer hitting on just about every curb etc on they way, this was odd as it does not usually hit. When I parked the unit, the back of the trailer was almost touching the ground...Huh??

    Turns out that the tongue was only just attached, one was busted right off
    Trailers.........?-trailer_busted_1.jpg
    This is the one that is still just barely attached.

    Trailers.........?-trailer_busted_2.jpg
    here is the one on the right that is busted right off :twitchy:

    As you can see in this pic.....
    Trailers.........?-trailer_busted_3.jpg
    ... it is busted right off....

    I guess this is all part of making something from scratch, testing it to the point of failure over time

    Well now what to do, I might just try to reinforce with a gusset what I have there, or I might rethink the whole deal and go for one stronger tube in the center...?

    On thing I do not like about the twin tube set up I have now with the tongue desin is that I cannot use my pannier on the bike with the trailer, sounds dumb, but there are times when I wish I could. I might also take this opportunity to put a spacer in to raise the whole trailer up another inch, as there are sometimes ground clearance issues.....

    I'll get it down to the workshop tonight and start to tackle the problem, might have to make a run to the DIY shop to buy some stronger steel too.....

    There always seems to be one more thing to do

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  124. #124
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    So you got about 9 months of use out of it and how many miles?

  125. #125
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    If it makes you feel any better, we would have fatigue issues like this on new farm equipment designed by professional engineers and field-tested.

    The force is across the tubes concentrated at that point, bending them until fatigue made them break, like worrying a paper clip to failure. At the hitch the fore-aft force, is in compression/tension on the tubes along their long axis where they are strongest.

    Since they took a while to fail, I'd guess your tubes are plenty strong enough, but can't take the continuous bending forces. If you can stand the interference with loads, near the hitch, I'd suggest running a triangulating square tube on each one from where the hitch tubes' curves are 1/3 to 1/2 complete to the frame inside of each wheel. The angles of the hitch tubes will pose an interesting joining issue, but you bent them so you can bend the triagulation tubes. That will stiffen the hitch, transfer a lot of the force where the hitch tubes take a lot of it along their length and stop most of the flex that broke the tubes.

    If you can't have the tubes in the load area at all. you run them from the bottom of the front inside the arch of the two hitch tubes to the extent they will clear the bike, but they won't transfer the force into the length of the hitch tubes as well.

    Gussets might spread the force enough, but we found they failed again more often than not.

    If done right, you will either have no further problems, or the next weakest point will break.

  126. #126
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    I find with my trailer experiences attachment to the rear hub is a better bet than to the seatpost. Much better handling. Have you considered this in your fix/next version?

    Thanks for your fun thread!

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    If it makes you feel any better, we would have fatigue issues like this on new farm equipment designed by professional engineers and field-tested.

    The force is across the tubes concentrated at that point, bending them until fatigue made them break, like worrying a paper clip to failure. At the hitch the fore-aft force, is in compression/tension on the tubes along their long axis where they are strongest.

    Since they took a while to fail, I'd guess your tubes are plenty strong enough, but can't take the continuous bending forces. If you can stand the interference with loads, near the hitch, I'd suggest running a triangulating square tube on each one from where the hitch tubes' curves are 1/3 to 1/2 complete to the frame inside of each wheel. The angles of the hitch tubes will pose an interesting joining issue, but you bent them so you can bend the triagulation tubes. That will stiffen the hitch, transfer a lot of the force where the hitch tubes take a lot of it along their length and stop most of the flex that broke the tubes.

    If you can't have the tubes in the load area at all. you run them from the bottom of the front inside the arch of the two hitch tubes to the extent they will clear the bike, but they won't transfer the force into the length of the hitch tubes as well.

    Gussets might spread the force enough, but we found they failed again more often than not.

    If done right, you will either have no further problems, or the next weakest point will break.
    Hey Brian, thanks for your input, it is always of value.

    I think I have it worked out, I'll go with one larger tube in the center, and I'll not be bending it, but I'll be welding three pieces in to an arc, and I'll be gusseting it with strong backs in the critical areas. I have no doubt that this could expose the next weak link, but that is what happens.

    I sometimes haul heavy stuff, not far, but heavy, a case of beer is 28Kg or there abouts, the other day I hauled 3 cases which is 84 Kg or 185lbs, that is heavy. I have hauled four cases, which is 112 Kg or about 250 lbs, now that was serious stupid heavy.

    The day to day wear and tear is what brought this about, the curved tubes that I was using as my trailer neck or tongue would flex as I rode along, I knew that they were on the thin side, but remember, this is the first time I've ever built a trailer

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    So you got about 9 months of use out of it and how many miles?
    I would guess I put over 1000 Km on it, and most of the time with a fairly heavy load on it. This is a learning process, I'm sure that something else will break at some point, thank goodness I have that MIG welder
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  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    I find with my trailer experiences attachment to the rear hub is a better bet than to the seatpost. Much better handling. Have you considered this in your fix/next version?

    Thanks for your fun thread!
    I'm glad you are enjoying the thread, I am too, I've gotten a wealth of information from people here

    I've not really looked at the hub idea, from my reading I came to the conclusion that for heavy loads, the seat post mount is better, for a lighter touring load, the hub certainly could be superior, but for the heavy loads I pull daily, I thing the seat post is better, but I could be wrong and may one day swap out to the hub I guess I am still prototyping here

    Version 2.0 on the way!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  130. #130
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    OK, some pics

    Trailers.........?-sn3d3299.jpg
    You can see the gussets I put at each joint in the new trailer tongue.

    Trailers.........?-sn3d3298.jpg
    A close up, welding is OK, but not great.

    Trailers.........?-sn3d3300.jpg
    Here is the vertical part of the tongue where it attaches at the front of the trailer

    Trailers.........?-sn3d3301.jpg
    The strong back I put on the inside of the trailer that extends up to the first joint in the new tongue. I think this will be very solid. The hole is for the hook of my tie-down strap

    Trailers.........?-sn3d3302.jpg
    Here is is all a done, with out the brake mechanism attached, and then some paint.

    I really do think this will be really strong, but lets see what happens in a years time........ if it makes it that far
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  131. #131
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    Finished up around 3AM, the brakes too much longer than expected to get them right

    But they work great.

    Trailers.........?-bike_trailer_ver_2.jpg

    I'll take some better pictures later.

    Took it for a quick ride, seems to be just fine.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  132. #132
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    Some pics of the completed trailer in the sunlight!

    Trailers.........?-ver_2_trailer_1.jpg

    Trailers.........?-ver_2_trailer_2.jpg

    Trailers.........?-ver_2_trailer_3.jpg

    Trailers.........?-ver_2_trailer_4.jpg

    Trailers.........?-ver_2_trailer_5.jpg

    The square tubing that I used to make the neck of the trailer is two sized larger than the tubing I used before, and the wall thickness of the tubing is at least twice as thick. With the gussets in key spots and strong-back that runs vertically from inside the trailer, I think it will be just simply skookum
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  133. #133
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    In addition to the reinforcing you have I think I would have added some plate horizontally at the neck where it crosses the top and bottom rail of the basket. Reinforce the neck from any twisting forces at this joint and spread the load out more across the admittedly smaller basket rails.

    Your gussets in the neck probably will be plenty for this use but a note for future projects: Two smaller side gussets are better than one large center-line gusset when working with thin wall tubing. This is accepted good practice in bike frames as well as race car tubular chassis. Testing has shown that when the joint is bent the single plate gusset pierces the thin wall like a can opener and fails the joint. The side plates allow for more weldable area and the spreading of the force over a larger area.

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    In addition to the reinforcing you have I think I would have added some plate horizontally at the neck where it crosses the top and bottom rail of the basket. Reinforce the neck from any twisting forces at this joint and spread the load out more across the admittedly smaller basket rails.
    I did think about it, I put a wider plate vertically, which is welded to the basket, and then the neck is welded to that plate. There is no twisting force to speak of because of the hitch and the way the trailer works.

    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Your gussets in the neck probably will be plenty for this use but a note for future projects: Two smaller side gussets are better than one large center-line gusset when working with thin wall tubing. This is accepted good practice in bike frames as well as race car tubular chassis. Testing has shown that when the joint is bent the single plate gusset pierces the thin wall like a can opener and fails the joint. The side plates allow for more weldable area and the spreading of the force over a larger area.
    That makes total sense, thanks for the tip, I really appreciate it
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  135. #135
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    Good luck with the trailer this time around. Sure looks beefier, ought to be able to last another 1,000 kilometers or so!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  136. #136
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    At this rate you'll need to reinforce your seatpost. Be messy to fail there...

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    At this rate you'll need to reinforce your seatpost. Be messy to fail there...

    Yeah, it is a concern for sure, but then I'd need to buy a new bike or better the liquor shop would have to buy a new bike

    All kidding aside, I'd not enjoy killing this bike, it has been my ride for 22 years now....
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    I did think about it, I put a wider plate vertically, which is welded to the basket, and then the neck is welded to that plate. There is no twisting force to speak of because of the hitch and the way the trailer works.
    Where I see a twisting force being generated is when one trailer wheel strikes a bump and the other doesn't or entering/exiting a incline (curb) at an angle when one wheel is on the incline for that split second when the other is on the flat.

    For a test I'd try to have you pull the trailer by hand on a diagonal approach to an incline. The first wheel to get up on the incline will seem to want to pull back down the hill creating this twisting force.

    The larger the trailer load the more magnified this force will be. These aren't huge forces but they are fatiguing loads on the frame with thousands of repetitions. Good discussion...

  139. #139
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    OK, I have the new tow bike, a 2010 Charge Mixer 8...


    The new Mixer with the venerable Cannondale.

    My old Cannondale will be retired from towing duty, and be come my ride bike, the Mixer 8 will become the workhorse.

    The Mixer 8 is a steel framed bike, Tange Prestige Double Butted tubing, Shimano hydraulic disk brakes (man they stop time!) and an Alfine 8 speed hub, should be very little maintenance on this bike The wheels are 700C with 36 spokes, so they too should hold up, and I put some larger Schwalbe Marathon Plus 35 tires on it, for a bit more volume, they just fit.

    On to the new hitch.....

    On the Cannondale I had the hitch attached to the seatpost, this worked, but I have always been concerned of the potential damage I could do the the frame with the back and forth leverage from the seatpost attaching point.


    That is a close up of the existing hitch.


    A 165lb delivery


    Below is a quick mock up using some wood to give an idea of how I want to attach the new hitch, the size of the plates, the gussets and the hitch are will change, this is just a crude mock up, but I think you get where I'm going.....







    I'm looking for some comments, if you see something that sends up red flags, please do tell, I'm not married to this exact design, so I am looking for ideas.

    I will also say that I've looked hard at the hitch down at the axle and I find it not to be so good, I understand that with a fairly heavy load, which I will carry daily, the trailer usually does not track well, and turning in one direction is easier than the other etc.

    Comments please!
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  140. #140
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    Looks like a case of Sapporo beer in the back of the trailer.
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  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker
    Looks like a case of Sapporo beer in the back of the trailer.
    One case of Sapporo Black Label 350ml cans, one case 500Ml cans, two cases of 10 2L bottles of water and one case of awful Asahi StyleFree crap beer, all told about 165lbs, not including the trailer, IIRC
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  142. #142
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    Updates? This this is so cool!!
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    Leave yourself some room for the fender.
    From the point at which the arm makes its bend to horizontal can you brace it down to the pannier mounts by the rear dropouts? Appears to be just about straight down. Maybe integrate the fender with this brace?

    (looks like you've been doing a ton of cutting of sheet goods)

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Leave yourself some room for the fender.
    From the point at which the arm makes its bend to horizontal can you brace it down to the pannier mounts by the rear dropouts? Appears to be just about straight down. Maybe integrate the fender with this brace?

    (looks like you've been doing a ton of cutting of sheet goods)
    Well, that piece of foam is about 10 years old, so yeah, there are a few blade marks on it

    I got the idea from looking at this picture......

    ....... of a "Heavy Duty" trailer hitch from >> Tony's Trailers <<

    I think this would really make things solid, but it might make using the rear rack impossible......

    Then again, I could always use the Cannondale with the rear rack if I need to make a run without the trailer...
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  145. #145
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    Oh yeah, no space for fenders with the new tires but I'll not be riding in the rain anyways, as the customers do now what soaking wet cases of beer
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  146. #146
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    I think I might just make up a very strong rack, and have it serve also as my hitch mounting point, and I could also set it up to use my panniers as well for when the trailer is too much.

    Some pics.....


    The mark on the stick shows where the hitch on the trailer is now, this is rather tall, so I'm thinking to modify the trailer (yet again!) to lower a bit where the hitch level is. On the Cannondale I am taking off from the seat post, so of course the hitch is quite a bit higher, with the Mixer 8 I'll be taking off much lower on the back of the bike, just over the wheel, I hope.

    Some kind of a rack might be what I want, need.....



    Just a crude mock up with thin strips of wood, but I think this could work, with another bit coming down and a flat carrying area it might work just fine.

    I'm also thinking of reversing the way the hitch hooks up, now the tie rod end joint is on the bike and that goes into the trailer, but if I leave the tie rod end on the trailer and have it go into the hitch, like on the back of the beefy rack I will build, then I have the rack to use, unobstructed when I want, but a spot to hitch the trailer too, if that makes sense

    Cheers!
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  147. #147
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    A little crude drawing and I have this for an idea....



    I know it is just basically a rack, but it would be made out of square tubing and it would be very solid, the hitch would be below the deck at the rear, so when the trailer was not in use, it would not interfere with using the rack on the bike. To use my panniers I'd have to add additional mounts to the side of the rack, and most likely move them back, to get the heel clearance I need, as the chain stays are a bit short on this bike, but I think that would also be possible.

    I think this could be a very good solution, I'll have a good solid point to mount my hitch, I'll have a usable rack, even when towing the trailer and I'll have a place to hang my panniers.

    Sounds good, now I just have to build it

    Cheers!
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  148. #148
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    Riding around with the extra mechanical drag of that Shimano Alfine hub should make you a stronger rider. I have a 47.8 pound Surly 1x1 with 65mm wide DH rims and 3" wide DH tires, and I tell you it is tough.
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  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker
    Riding around with the extra mechanical drag of that Shimano Alfine hub should make you a stronger rider. I have a 47.8 pound Surly 1x1 with 65mm wide DH rims and 3" wide DH tires, and I tell you it is tough.
    Well the point is not speed, but doing deliveries for the business, the 23Kg trailer is a bit of work to tow around even empty. Reminds me of my days in high school playing football and we had to do all of them sprints while dragging a car tire behind us that was tied around our waist. When the rope was untied and you ran, boy you felt fast
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  150. #150
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    At this rate you'll be in the trailer not liquor business in no time!

    I think you have nailed this with a rack mount. And I'd suggest to make the hitch point directly over the rear axle. This will create the best handling (check out what Burley did with their Piccolo kids trailer). Picture at this link:
    http://www.japanbikeride.com/4.html

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    At this rate you'll be in the trailer not liquor business in no time!

    I think you have nailed this with a rack mount. And I'd suggest to make the hitch point directly over the rear axle. This will create the best handling (check out what Burley did with their Piccolo kids trailer). Picture at this link:
    http://www.japanbikeride.com/4.html

    In a perfect world that would be great, but I think it will be behind the center of the rear wheel, but there will be support struts that will transfer the weight down to the lug right above the rear axle, I hope that is enough.

    Maybe I'll have to figure out some way to make a flip up hitch that when not in use is flat with the top of the rack, but when in use is right over the center of the wheel.... Hmmm, you have my gears grinding now in my little brain....

    Thanks!
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  152. #152
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    Some quick head scratching and some bad drawings, and this is what I came up with.....


    OK This is what I was thinking, the hitch would be at the rear of the rack, but this would put the pivot point well behind the center of the rear wheel, and the weight would be quite far behind the rear wheel, I do not think this is a good idea



    With this set up, the blue stud would be removable, I could take it out when not towing the trailer, and have full use of the rack. This set up places the weight of the trailer over the rear wheel, and the pivot point over the rear wheel.

    The rack I will make will be a bit longer than most, I want to be able to put my panniers on the bike, but with the very short chain stays of this bike, I need some extra room for heel clearance.

    Well, what do you think of these ideas?
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  153. #153
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    With the hitch behind the rear axle, you have leverage that loads the rear tire more and removes weight from the front. You also have the same in lateral tail-wags the dog fashion. Tony's Trailers Tony's comment about applying the weight down the seat tube I suspect is ideal (he certainly has a lot of experience messing with trailers). So right over the rear axle is as far back as I'd go as a not-to-sophisticated-guess, but it's your trailer. Your panniers would work, and with considered design, the top would be available when the trailer is detached.

    Thanks for the link to Tony's stuff. For people with money and little time or skill for DIY, they look pretty deccent.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    With the hitch behind the rear axle, you have leverage that loads the rear tire more and removes weight from the front. You also have the same in lateral tail-wags the dog fashion. Tony's Trailers Tony's comment about applying the weight down the seat tube I suspect is ideal (he certainly has a lot of experience messing with trailers). So right over the rear axle is as far back as I'd go as a not-to-sophisticated-guess, but it's your trailer. Your panniers would work, and with considered design, the top would be available when the trailer is detached.

    Thanks for the link to Tony's stuff. For people with money and little time or skill for DIY, they look pretty deccent.

    Yeah, Tony's trailers I think are great, and he builds them out of proper tubing, not the mild steel I'm using, the guy is a very experienced frame builder, so he knows his stuff.

    The more I think about it, the further forward I think I'll put the removable stud, I guess it is kind of like a 5th wheel in the back of a pickup
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  155. #155
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    Considering all these ideas since yesterday I think I still like the portion of the wood mock-up that includes sandwiching the seat stays between 2 plates rather than just relying on the upper pannier rack mounts. You pull a considerable load and I'm leery of using just the threaded bosses in the frame.

  156. #156
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    I agree there, the threaded bosses are made for fenders and 30lb panniers, not 200lb trailer loads full of beer. plus they're aluminum, which is pretty soft, as well as likes to crack...

    BUT! either way your designs and fab work is awesome! Checked out your website and saw your homemade band saw, and WOW! legit!
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  157. #157
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    I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do with the mounting point for the hitch yet, but I have got a good start on the rack....





    The rack is kind of long, but this is to accommodate my panniers on the rack, because of heel clearance. It is mostly just tacked together at this point, so there is some more welding to do.

    I'm wondering if I should put a third support in from near the front of the rack to the center main vertical support...? That really might be overkill
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  158. #158
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    Your bike drives from the contact of the rear tire on the ground. The closer to this point you make the hitch the better. Directly above the axle - or better connected to the axle would be best from a handling and stress perspective IMO. You want the stresses on the axle not the frame. Your rack mount is pretty effective at getting close to this.

    A forward frame or seat tube mount does not. Think of all the levers to contact patch this creates.

    Forward will compromise handling. Rearward will lift the front wheel and effect handling and braking. Over or forward on your rack.

    I really enjoy your post and the spirit of all the comments. I wish I could order beer from you!

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    Your bike drives from the contact of the rear tire on the ground. The closer to this point you make the hitch the better. Directly above the axle - or better connected to the axle would be best from a handling and stress perspective IMO. You want the stresses on the axle not the frame. Your rack mount is pretty effective at getting close to this.

    A forward frame or seat tube mount does not. Think of all the levers to contact patch this creates.

    Forward will compromise handling. Rearward will lift the front wheel and effect handling and braking. Over or forward on your rack.

    I really enjoy your post and the spirit of all the comments. I wish I could order beer from you!
    Thanks for the comments!

    This is the set up I have now.....


    The yellow line is the pivot point of the hitch.

    It works well, but I worry about the stress I'm putting on the top of the seat tube....


    If the blue lines are the forward and backward loads put on the bike by towing a heavy trailer, then the yellow lines represent (exaggerated!) the stresses put on the seat post and where the seat post goes into the frame.

    By having the hitch on the rack, which is solidly attached to the rear triangle of the frame at 4 points, I'm hoping to make things much more solid.

    I must stress that I'm hauling heavy heavy loads a fair distance daily, by heavy I mean 200lbs or more. The stress put on the bike and the hitch is a lot more,a LOT LOT LOT more than a typical 50lbs load that people haul behind their bikes with a lightweight touring trailer.
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  160. #160
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    Some work got done today on the rack....







    I think this should be a very skookum rack

    Now a question, do you think I should put a 3rd strut on the rack...?


    I guess it would just make everything more balanced and it certainly cannot hurt with the strength of the rack and hitch....???

    I will put a "Pannier Rail" on each side of the rack....



    This will let me put the panniers on and have enough heel clearance as well as keep the panniers lower to the ground for better stability.

    On to mounting the hitch...........
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  161. #161
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    The piece of cardboard in the pics below, would be a steel plate, welded in place, with a 1" in diameter piece of steel, maybe 1" long, welded onto the bottom of the plate, there would be a hole through the plate and the steel below the plate, which would accept a removable stud that would have the hitch on it. This would make it removable so I could use the rack, without the trailer, and it would allow me to raise the mounting point to the existing height I am using now, so I don't have to do major surgery on the trailer again.


    In this pic the mounting plate would be directly above the rear axle.


    In the second option, the mounting point would be forward of the rear axle, very much the same as the set up I have now with the Cannondale.

    I think I'll go for the forward mounting position, as the handling of the trailer now is fine, good in fact.


    This is kind of what I'm thinking about for a removable stud, it would have to be very solid and maybe one hole is not enough, maybe I'd make it with three holes and somewhat gusseted?

    Comments?

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  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo

    I must stress that I'm hauling heavy heavy loads a fair distance daily, by heavy I mean 200lbs or more. The stress put on the bike and the hitch is a lot more,a LOT LOT LOT more than a typical 50lbs load that people haul behind their bikes with a lightweight touring trailer.

    Then you should mount the weight to your axle. Make the rack mount to the axle not the little rack mounts. Have it clamp outside the dropouts and bolt/skewer clamp it all together. Fix to the rack directly above or a bit forward (like you have now) to stop buckling, but not back. The top of the rack should then clamp to the seat tube and also the stays. So 3-4 contacts to stop swinging back.

    This in my mind would be the way to isolate the frame from the equation and tow from the strongest point.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    Then you should mount the weight to your axle. Make the rack mount to the axle not the little rack mounts. Have it clamp outside the dropouts and bolt/skewer clamp it all together. Fix to the rack directly above or a bit forward (like you have now) to stop buckling, but not back. The top of the rack should then clamp to the seat tube and also the stays. So 3-4 contacts to stop swinging back.

    This in my mind would be the way to isolate the frame from the equation and tow from the strongest point.
    Having the tow point low and to one side is not as stable as having it higher up, as well as having a trailer with a low tongue makes it very hard to move around off the bike. I have also read account of people hauling heavy loads with a trailer attached on one side down low at the axle of a lot of lateral push on the bike, especially the rear tire, which makes the handling "Exciting" in corners.

    I'm sticking to a high hitch point.

    Last edited by Stu In Tokyo; 02-18-2011 at 03:59 AM.
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  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    Having the tow point low and to one side is not as stable as having it higher up, as well as having a trailer with a low tongue makes it very hard to move around off the bike. I have also read account of people hauling heavy loads with a trailer attached on one side down low at the axle of a lot of lateral push on the bike, especially the rear tire, which makes the handling "Exciting" in corners.

    I'm sticking to a high hitch point.


    I am with you. I mean to mount on both side via your rack. So mount high, grip at the axle.

  165. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldass
    I am with you. I mean to mount on both side via your rack. So mount high, grip at the axle.
    I'm not gripping the axle, but the two rack lugs that are about 1/2" above the axle.

    Mounting right on the axle would be hard, as it is a special axle with special spacers and such for the 8 speed Alfine hub.
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  166. #166
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    I got some more work done on the rack, I did decide to put a third strut on the rack, and I got the pannier rails done too.....






    This will allow me to use the panniers even with the trailer in tow, I won't be able to use the top of the rack but I think that is OK.

    I will make up some sort of attachment, a stud for lack of a better word, that will mount on top of the rack to attach the trailer to, it will become the hitch I guess.




    Just playing with ideas here.

    One thought I had was to make something that hooks around the cross bars on the rack, and then is held in place with one bolt big knob. This would allow me to easily remove the hitch from the rack if I wish, but would also be a very solid mount for the hitch.

    More on that tomorrow, it's 3AM and I need to get some sleep!

    Thanks to everyone who has commented on this build, it is really great to hear all of the various ideas, it makes me think

    Cheers!
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  167. #167
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    You should have just built your own frame
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  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikecrazy55
    You should have just built your own frame

    One day

    It IS on my "Bucket List"
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  169. #169
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    What an awesome read!

    Really enjoyed the trailer tech !
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  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by cda 455
    What an awesome read!

    Really enjoyed the trailer tech !
    Glad you enjoyed it, I really do get a LOT of help and inspiration from everyone on forums like this, they often challenge my ideas and make me rethink stuff, saves me a lot of extra work
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  171. #171
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    Just about got it done




    That is the rack, basically finished, I might add a few bungy point on it, and do a bit more sanding on some of my rougher welds but that is about 95% done.

    Here it is with the hitch attached....




    .... I'll not lie, this is NOT lightweight in any way, but I think it is rather skookum, that is solid and durable. :thumb:

    The hitch is held in place with two 10mm bolts, with hand knobs on them......


    The knob nearest the seat is a bit long, I'll drill a hole in near the top of it and put a small padlock on it, to prevent theft.

    Cont ..........
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  172. #172
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    .........

    Here is the Mixer 8 and the trailer.....





    and soon after that, I took the new set up on it's maiden delivery.....


    That is about 60Kg/130lbs of weight on there, a medium load. Things were great, it handles like a dream, the new bike is very responsive!

    I now need to get some clip-less pedals, and a kick stand.

    The kick stand may be a bit of a problem, I want the bi-pod stand like I have on the Cannondale, but the area just behind the BB on this bike is quite small, so I don't know if it will fit, might have to get out the grinder and make it fit, as I really want that bi-pod stand.

    Next up will be some paint, but I'm thinking of trying to find some company to galvanize it, I think that would be very cool, it would really complete the whole thing, it should look good and it should also not rust as soon as a chipped paint version would.

    I said I know this is not lightweight, and it isn't but I think it should last, the weak point now is going to be the frame, but it is bolted securely to four points on mounts that the maker intended to carry weight, so......?

    I guess time will tell

    Cheers!
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  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo

    The kick stand may be a bit of a problem, I want the bi-pod stand like I have on the Cannondale, but the area just behind the BB on this bike is quite small, so I don't know if it will fit, might have to get out the grinder and make it fit, as I really want that bi-pod stand.
    Wow that looks great! Nice job! As for the kickstand, why not use the rack and the trailer together? Maybe weld some small arms to the neck of the trailer, that fold down and connect to the rack on the bike, solidifying that connection, keeping the bike/trailer from turning. This could make the whole connection stable enough to stand on its own.

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG410
    ... As for the kickstand, ... weld some small arms to the neck of the trailer, that fold down and connect to the rack on the bike, solidifying that connection, ....
    Essentially make the rig a temporary free standing delta tricycle with an inline tandem front. I assume your pics require careful balancing.

    Another approach is a swing up tuning fork or football goal post arrangement on the rack that clasps the trailer tongue. Looks like there is room between the side rails and the back and next crossmember of the rack to fold it down.

    A heavier stand that would not require the trailer, and so would work with paniers alone, would be a swing down arrangement from the rear diagonal side braces of the rack similar to the front one on German mail delivery bikes (in another thread here). You could have small wheels or feet on the bottom. A through-center spring return system so when you push off it folds up itself like the mail bikes one's do would make launching easier, too. You won't be able to push it down before dismounting like they can, though.

  175. #175
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    So tonight I decided to try and lighten the hitch a bit.....







    I know it does not REALLY lighten it much, but it does make it LOOK lighter

    I also worked on the bottom contact point of the rack, down near the rear axle, I was not satisfied with the way it was.....


    Not much beef there, and I thought it should be a bit stouter.

    Taking it right off the axle was not really an option, because of this flange that the frame has....


    Kind of hard to work around that

    This is what I came up with (on the other side, I still have the left side to build).......


    I missed ever so slightly on the arc of the bottom piece, I wish it would have matched perfectly, I might just pull it off and weld some on the edge and then grind/file it back some This way I'm using the fender mount as well as the rack mount, more beef too, so I think it should be able to handle more stress.

    Again I'll say I know it is a lot of steel to be hauling around, but the trailer weighs 23Kg alone and the beer often weighs well over 60Kg so another 3 or 4 Kg really is not going to make a difference, I'm not trying to win races, or go touring with this set up, this bike is a work bike, it is for hauling a trailer full of beer around

    Cheers!
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    NICE! I think the double bolts on the bottom mounts should help a little at least. Does the bike have an eccentric bb?
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  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikecrazy55
    NICE! I think the double bolts on the bottom mounts should help a little at least. Does the bike have an eccentric bb?
    Thanks, and yes, eccentric BB
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  178. #178
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    Wow, that setup is BEEFY!!! Impressive job!
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  179. #179
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    In place of a kickstand you might be able to use something like this instead?
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    It would keep the front wheel from flopping and that looks like all you need to get that setup to stand alone once the trailer brake is set?
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  180. #180
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    That's nifty! Never seen one of those!

    I'm pretty sure with the skills that the op has, he could could fab something up that would be a little more durable but still work the same. But i guess it really wouldn't need to be that strong....
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  181. #181
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    The ball joint hitch should be stable with a locked front wheel.

    You can lock the wheel from rolling with an O-ring or velcro belt to hold the brake lever 'on' and that will resist a ratating fork a bit, easy enough to test if it is enough. Some cargo bikes have a lock on the stem to prevent rotation. A modded spacer and a brake hanger would do the job without cluttering the downtube, and Flickstands are out of production according to a quick googling. These options are easy to apply or remove before or after mounting the bike, a nice feature.

  182. #182
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    Wow, great ideas guys, wonderful!

    The thing is I do plan on using the bike for deliveries without the trailer, so I need some kind of kickstand. I'm going to get one of the Pletscher bi-pod stands and see if I can modify it to fit.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  183. #183
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    I did get the Peltscher bipod stand to work..... with some MAJOR surgery to the stand










    It worked, and I'm glad it did, because that stand is so very stable!

    On with the "Ver. 3.0" of the beer hauler

    A couple of minor and major revisions.

    Basically, the problem is that we took on a new customer, a good customer, should be worth some serious coin to the business. They order a lot of stuff six days a week, one of which is a 20 litre keg of beer. Most every day they order a 20L keg, a case of large bottles of beer, and 6 large bottle or sake/shochu mixed. I cannot easily fit that on the trailer without some stacking, which is not the best idea, as all of this stuff is heavy.







    You can see the problem, the trailer is too narrow by about 10 cm

    I also wanted to deal with my ground clearance problem, the tail end hits the ground on several places around my deliveries going over curbs and such, I figure another inch or so will give me more than enough clearance, but not compromise my low slung stability.

    cont....
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

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  184. #184
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    .....





    I love my SawsAll

    Once taken apart, I then figured that 59 cm would be good, I measured all the products I would take on deliveries, and just to be safe, I added another 2cm to make the new size of the carrying area 61cm, it was 49cm.


    some clamps, and some wooden spacers to keep things inline and I was ready to go.


    some of the bottom tube done. I put a piece of 3mm thick flat bar on each side of the tube, tacked it in place, then I carefully fitted a new piece of square tubing in there and welded it all up.

    .....
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

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  185. #185
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    There it is mostly welded up, I have some minor stuff to add, some tabs for a few things and such, but that is the bulk of the job

    As I said, I had a slight ground clearance problem but no more....



    That is over 4" of ground clearance, that should do me just fine

    Next up.....


    ... yep, fenders, I have done some deliveries in the rain, and those wheels throw a LOT of water. The near fender is done, the other one is just sitting there, you see I ran out of wire.....

    .. I knew I should have ordered a big spool, but I thought this little one would do.... well, after one fender set done, I was right out of wire uch:
    Here is a good picture showing how much the trailer has grown.....


    that is the old floorboard.

    My next idea is to make some signage on the trailer sides, something like this.....



    That is just cardboard, but I bought some of that board that looks like cardboard in it's construction, but is plastic. I will attach it to the trailer with some zip ties and a couple of bolts/screws. I'm only going to put the name of the liquor shop with our logo and a area.

    Once I get some more wire, I'll finish up, then I'll use it for a week or two and if I'm happy with it, I'll paint it.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  186. #186
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    Soon that whole trailer is going to be made up of just weld material.

    Is the wheel lock going to work out with the fender and the advertising board?

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by bme107
    Soon that whole trailer is going to be made up of just weld material.

    Is the wheel lock going to work out with the fender and the advertising board?
    Yep, the trailer is getting heavy but it is used to haul really heavy stuff, speed is not the key, durability is

    There will have to be some modifications for sure, but yeah, the lock will work
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

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  188. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    That is just cardboard, but I bought some of that board that looks like cardboard in it's construction, but is plastic. I will attach it to the trailer with some zip ties and a couple of bolts/screws. I'm only going to put the name of the liquor shop with our logo and a area.

    Once I get some more wire, I'll finish up, then I'll use it for a week or two and if I'm happy with it, I'll paint it.

    Cheers!
    Still in rivets by this thread.... Hope your work is gonna kick back a few$$$ for the signage.
    The most important thing is what God thinks about it. He will have the final say.” – Joshua Stinebrink

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  189. #189
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    Wow dude, you are truly talented in the welding/fabrication department!
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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ae111black
    Still in rivets by this thread.... Hope your work is gonna kick back a few$$$ for the signage.

    Thanks!

    We own the business, and all the tools I buy and use become mine, plus materials are paid for, so I guess you could say I get something back add to that the fun of doing it
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  191. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker
    Wow dude, you are truly talented in the welding/fabrication department!

    Domo, but I don't know if it is talent, or need/persistence
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

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  192. #192
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    Well thAt makes perfect sence! Lol good for you Stu! It must be awesome to do this for a living.
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  193. #193
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    The delivery bikes of the thirties through early sixties often had signs hanging down from the top tube. So in addition to the trailer ads, maybe "Eco-Delivery:" "Powered by Sake" or "Powrered by Sapporo". Of course it could just be "Powered by Stu" or Powered by "The Crazy Canuck!"

  194. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    The delivery bikes of the thirties through early sixties often had signs hanging down from the top tube. So in addition to the trailer ads, maybe "Eco-Delivery:" "Powered by Sake" or "Powrered by Sapporo". Of course it could just be "Powered by Stu" or Powered by "The Crazy Canuck!"

    I thought about that, would be really retro for sure!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  195. #195
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    I got the trailer out of the Dungeon for it's maiden flight today!!







    I've not done the sign boards yet, that will come later.





    The first delivery, it was a bit light, and in about 10 seconds I stopped and moved the load around, that full keg of beer at the back was lifting my rear wheel off the ground if I was not sitting on the bike

    One thing that I did was to move the wheels forward about 10cm, this is because the trailer is heavy on the front, due to the tongue, by moving the wheels forward, I think I can load the trailer with a neutral balance, more easily. One other problem that cropped up is that the strap I'm using to tie stuff down does not work so well any more with two items side by side at the back, so I'm going to put two sets of hooks, so I can put two straps side by side....


    ... of course I'll leave the front to back strap as well, this will give me more options.

    It all went well today, not a heavy load, but heavy enough, I could feel that the trailer was heavier, but that is OK. I'll do a few more mods, run it as it is for a week or so, then paint it. Painting it is a big job, I have to set up a paint booth in my enclosed space, and it is not fun. Maybe I'll take the frame of the trailer up onto the roof and paint it up there I'll have to get a nice sunny day, with no wind

    I saw a sign on the back of a kyubin truck today, saying the truck was natural gas powered (or LPG...?) and it also had the idling stop thing, so it was not doing a simple "Delivery/配達中" but an "Eco-Delivery/エコ配達中" I figure that I can put a sign on the back of my trailer saying "Healthy Delivery/健康配達中" (kenkou haitatsuchu) or maybe katakana would be better...? Might be really strange Japanese.....
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  196. #196
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    Eat, Drink , and Deliver Merrily

    Heathy Delivery- To your Health.

    or if I am right that Japanese Culture has a beauty/aethetic sensibility, then...

    Healthy Delivery - It's a beautiful thing.

    The Art of Healthy Delivery

    Zen and the Art of Bicycle Delivery

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    Eat, Drink , and Deliver Merrily

    Heathy Delivery- To your Health.

    or if I am right that Japanese Culture has a beauty/aethetic sensibility, then...

    Healthy Delivery - It's a beautiful thing.

    The Art of Healthy Delivery

    Zen and the Art of Bicycle Delivery

    Very good Brian

    I did well over an hour hauling beer today on the rig, boy my legs are tired. I've lost about 4 pounds in the last two weeks, 56 pounds so far from June 2010 till now, another 50 or so to go!

    I changed the rear cog on my bike to a 22T from the stock 18T, give me much lower gearing. The bike is a Charge Mixer 8 with the Alfine 8 speed hub. Hauling heavy loads up some hills in the lowest gear even just kill me so some super low spin gears were needed.

    Cheers!
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  198. #198
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    I for one would like to know if how you, your family, business, and OK, bike and trailer are post earthquake.

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianMc
    I for one would like to know if how you, your family, business, and OK, bike and trailer are post earthquake.
    We are fine, thanks for the concern, bike and trailer are fine too

    Lots of busted bottles to clean up, and the house, well it looks like it was hit with a earthquake! we live on the 7th floor, but it is a new building, so it is OK, as far as we know, but man stuff got tossed around!

    We are good, North of us, the destruction leaves me speechless....
    To Canadians Hockey is not just a game, it's OUR Game.....!

    Go CANADA!

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu In Tokyo
    We are fine, thanks for the concern, bike and trailer are fine too

    Lots of busted bottles to clean up, and the house, well it looks like it was hit with a earthquake! we live on the 7th floor, but it is a new building, so it is OK, as far as we know, but man stuff got tossed around!

    We are good, North of us, the destruction leaves me speechless....
    I too am glad that you are ok! I honestly thought of you right when i heard the news!

    Hope everything goes well in returning life to normal!
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