Open Letter to Canyon in regards to Upcoming 2018 Spectral Purchase- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Idea! Open Letter to Canyon in regards to Upcoming 2018 Spectral Purchase

    This is the open letter I sent to Canyon's '[email protected]'

    I'm just sharing what I sent.

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    2017/12/12

    Hello


    I'm planning to buy a new mountain bike for my girlfriend and myself in the Spring of 2018. We are in then US and would purchase our bikes from the US distributor. We are both extremely interested in the Canyon Spectral.


    The 2018 Spectral CF 9.0 Pro fits perfectly with our riding style. The shocks (RockShock) and components (Sram GX12 speed) fit perfectly for the real world rider that expects solid performance on a budget. Our major concern is the offered wheel-set. The wheels and tires are completely out of place on the bike. The CF 9.0 SL and all lower carbon fiber models have a 30mm rims with 2.6in tires. I assume the US price will be around $4500USD and at that price the CF 9.0 Pro is an amazing deal, but shackles that buyer into narrow wheel and 2.4in tire.


    My concern, as consumer, its that the CR 9.0 Pro will not allow me to take advantage of tire advances in the future. The 26mm rim focuses on 2.4in and 2.3in tires. 2.5in and 2.6in could be mounted, but depending on the tire this may not be a correct tire/rim combo. Having to purchase a new wheel set to take advantage of changing tire sizes diminishes the overall value of the CF 9.0 Pro. In my case I would be buying 2 wheel sets and spending more money to keep the bike current.


    There are only 2 models, 9.0 Pro and 9.0 LTD, that do not have 30mm rims with 2.6in tires. While this may be an option for people that race or have a specific use case, the setup offers no benefits to the average consumer. An easy solution, to this issue, would be to offer customers a 30mm and 26in tire option. The wheel set on the CF 9.0 (DT SWISS XM 1501 SPLINE ONE/Maxxis 2.6in tire) would be a perfect match to the CF 9.0 Pro. Having the option to change the rims at the time of purchase, would make the CF 9.0 Pro more attractive to myself and other buyers.


    Thank you very much for taking the time to review my comments. If you have any comments or questions, please feel free to contact me.

    [Contact Info Removed]


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    2017/12/13 - Canyon Germany Reply

    Thank you for your email. Canyon Bicycles USA, Inc. handle their customer service separately. If you would like to contact Canyon US please send them an email to [email protected]

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    2017/12/13

    Original email resent to [email protected]

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    2017/12/13 - Canyon USA Reply

    Thank you for your email.


    We are very excited for the arrival of the new Spectrals. On a personal note, I will be throwing down my personal card on the exact same model you are referencing. I am very excited for it.


    The 9.0 Pro is kind of a special machine for us as we picked this model to represent what our pros will be riding, as such we wanted it to be inline with what our team sponsors provide.


    Since the Mavic XA Pros are Mavic's top level alloy trail wheels, those are what we chose to spec for our Pro model. While we do realize that these wheels may not be as ideal for larger 2.6in tires as some other sets on the market they will perform very well with the 2.4s and are rated to be compatible with the 2.6s. These wheels will offer excellent stiffness and are some of they are lightest trail worthy alloy wheels on the market. For these reason we feel that they will provide an excellent level of performance.


    If you give them a shot we're almost positive that you'll love them.


    Hopefully this helps and please feel free to reach out to us with any other questions you may have.


    All the best,


    [Contact Info Removed]

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    2017/12/16

    Still deciding on the correct reply to Canyon.
    ======================================
    2017/12/18

    [Contact Info Removed]

    Thank you for your response and thank you for sharing your plans to get the CF 9.0 Pro for yourself.


    I completely understand the need/want of any company to allow people to buy the same or a similar product as a professional uses. This is not unique to the cycling industry. There is a portion of any consumer base that will buy a product based solely on a endorsement and it is important to address that base.


    The larger portion of any consumer base has little to no knowledge of what input was driven by a professional within any given market. I fall into that segment of consumers. I couldn't name one professional mountain biker and my purchasing habits are not swayed by products they may be using. I look at functional value and the return on my financial investment.


    To the point of the CF 9.0 Pro, I agree that is a special bike and has the potential to produce high dividends for Canyon. It also would expand the direct to consumer market. A way to approach the issues, around the wheel set, would be to offer a 'Pro' kit. This kit could contain the Mavic wheel set, 2.4in tires and some small marketing swag items (water bottle, shirts, stickers and so on). This would allow a consumer to 'upgrade' their bike their bike to match a professional and allow Canyon to up-change for the kit. Average consumers would still have the option purchase the bike with a 30mm rim and 2.6in tire that matches the rest of the Spectral line. An upgraded 'Pro' kit allows Canyon to have the best of both worlds. Canyon would be to offer a setup that matches the professional rider and average consumer all with the same bike.


    As for my up coming purchase, the wheel set is a very important factor for me. Mostly because they are very expressive to replace later. While the components on the current CF 9.0 Pro are where I want to be and top notch, the wheel set is the defining factor. We keep our bikes for 5-8 years and a narrow wheel set is very concerning in terms of a long term investment. If there are no changes to the CF 9.0 Pro we'll be stepping down to the CF 9.0 with Shimano XT, Fox shocks and the DT Swiss wheel set.


    For a business stand point, I see this as a truly missed opportunity buy Canyon. Instead of purchasing two bikes at around $4500 per bike, I'll be purchasing two bikes for around $3500-$3900 per bike. I'm not complaining about saving money, this does mean I'll be spending less overall money with Canyon.


    If I'm taking the time to express my concerns, how many people may not take the time and simply purchase products from other companies. If Canyon does not follow various social media and industry forums, it would be beneficial to do so. From what I've read the overall response to the 2018 Spectral is very good, but there are concerns that are similar to what I've laid out in our conversion.


    The blessing and the curse of a direct to consumer model is the direct feedback form the customer. I greatly appreciate the ability to provide my feedback and hope it is taken under consideration. If you want to discuss anything I've outlined, I am available at your convenience.


    Thank you
    [Contact Info Removed]

    ======================================
    2017/12/18


    [Contact Info Removed]

    Thank you for your email and the thought that you've put into this. We honestly do appreciate the direct contact. A very important part of what we do is that we want to make sure you have direct access to Canyon to answer your questions. We can and do relay this information to those who makes these kinds of decisions.


    Although the 2018 year models are pretty much set, this is the kind of feedback we value when when discussions comes around for future models specs.


    We have talked internally about offering customization options similar to the Pro Kit that you had mentioned and will be evaluating this possibility moving forward. We strive to spec our bikes to best reflect the overall value and ease of purchase that Canyon is known for, and continue to Democratize Performance by offering the best level product at the most competitive pricing.


    We totally understand that wheelsets are a very big part of the overall package and that they do a lot to dictate the characteristics of the bike.We truly do like the characteristics that we get from the Mavics, even if they aren't as ideal for 2.6s as some other wheelsets on the market.


    I would also like to mention that for 2018 we will not be carrying any of the Shimano equipped models in the US. Our Carbon line up will consist of the Spectral CF 8.0, 9.0 PRO, 9.0 SL and the 9.0 EX LTD.


    Please let me know if you have any additional questions or would be open to connecting over the phone.

    [Contact Info Removed]

    ====================================
    Last edited by gundrted; 12-19-2017 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    Be keen to see what you get back. Only thing holding me back from ordering a 9.0 Pro are those wheels, the option to have it with the DT Swiss wheels would be perfect.

  3. #3
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    You hit the nail on the head, very strange to offer the smaller width rim limiting tire sizes and choices. Keep us informed on the response

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  6. #6
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    I run 2.6" tyres on my bike with a 26mm rim on the rear. I'm quite happy with it, however I wouldn't do so up front - I already run higher pressure out back to help prevent pinches, and that higher pressure also helps stop it from folding over.

    I certainly think it's a shitty decision on their part. 2.6" tyres are the ultimate for my trails IMO (and no doubt many others), and a wheelset to suit is key.

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    I see their point though, most pros are not running that wide rim width and for good reason, they just don't work nearly as well as a 2.3/2.4 tire with a proper Enduro casing tire, when compared to plus size tires/rims for a lot of reasons I won't get into here.

    You could argue there should be an option but like all things, more options means more inventory which means more cost which then gets passed onto consumer.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by croakies View Post
    I see their point though, most pros are not running that wide rim width and for good reason, they just don't work nearly as well as a 2.3/2.4 tire with a proper Enduro casing tire, when compared to plus size tires/rims for a lot of reasons I won't get into here.

    You could argue there should be an option but like all things, more options means more inventory which means more cost which then gets passed onto consumer.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
    I agree 100%. There are different tools for different uses and I have no reason to debate this. In the end there are no wrong answers.

    I would be truly surprised if Canyon makes any changes to the line up. As you pointed out supply chain, stocked inventory and contracts also play directly into decisions like this.

    At the end of the day I can say that I spoke my mind and can say I did something more they simply complain online.

  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundrted View Post
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    I am happy they have models with 2.4 tires, not everyone likes the bigger size tires. Its more difficult to find a nice line in a rock garden or when climbing techy sections, the tires are not as robust, and performance is more sensitive to tire pressure changes.

    Also wider aluminium rims with lower pressure tires are more prone to denting. There is a reason a lot of riders are still on 25mm ex471. You can ride them hard all year long and not put a dent in them.

    In short wider rims and tires do not necessarily equal better ridding characteristics and its not everyone's cup of tea.

    It seems that Canyon put together the pro models to reflect what their team rides at blistering speeds over stuff that some of us will walk. I dont think they should ever tone that down. Its like asking for a race car but with an automatic gearbox so you can eat your burger while driving.

    Anyway, have you tried 2.6 tires on sub 30mm rims? It might not be as bad as all the marketing hype makes it out to be.

  12. #12
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    I ride with a guy who has an old Scott MTB 26in wheels with tires that look like light bulbs, a 3x drive train, the fork is busted, and it squeaks everywhere...

    His tire pressure? A little over 20 in the front, a little under 30 in the back.

    At the bike park he keeps up with people with 200mm of squish and carbon everything. He goes down the side of mountains screaming about how much fun he is having.

    From his perspective, why worry about 4mm? You end up riding over rocks, in mud, sand, clay, rivers... Falling off...

    Going from 6000ft altitude to sea level in a few hours will have a bigger impact on your bike's suspension and tire pressure than the 4mm rim width will.

  13. #13
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    I personally would not ride a 2.6 tire. I much prefer the 2.4-2.5 max. I would rather see a 30mm wide rim though.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Djg24 View Post
    I personally would not ride a 2.6 tire. I much prefer the 2.4-2.5 max. I would rather see a 30mm wide rim though.
    The fact is that it's very trail/condition dependent.

    Most of my local trails love 2.6" tyres, and there a few where 2.8" is even better. However some of my local trails I still prefer 2.3", and a few hours drive away I have trails where anything beyond 2.3" is bonkers.

    IMO if you don't experience this, and see times where wider tyres rule, then get out and travel because you're missing out. Which is why a bike that can take a variety of tyre sizes is key to me, otherwise I'd only be experiencing a fraction of what mtbing is about.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    The fact is that it's very trail/condition dependent.

    Most of my local trails love 2.6" tyres, and there a few where 2.8" is even better. However some of my local trails I still prefer 2.3", and a few hours drive away I have trails where anything beyond 2.3" is bonkers.

    IMO if you don't experience this, and see times where wider tyres rule, then get out and travel because you're missing out. Which is why a bike that can take a variety of tyre sizes is key to me, otherwise I'd only be experiencing a fraction of what mtbing is about.
    +1 brother or sister

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  16. #16
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    Why not just buy the bike, sell the wheels and get something with a 30mm internal? I mean even if you blew the wheels out dirt cheap you'll probably still save money.. Hell, i'd proabbly just buy the wheels/tire you want and keep the stock as a back up wheel set. Chances are you'll still be in the black versus buying from a shop with the exact parts you want.

  17. #17
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    I am interested in the Spectral as well, besides the tire issue, was wondering what BB this frame has. I called Canyon USA and was told pressfit BB92, but not conclusive. Can anyone confirm? Was told that the first batch is due to arrive mid Feb with another shipment coming at the beginning of March. I am leaning towards the all carbon 9.0 SL build with the DT Swiss 30mm wheels. Also wondering why they spec'd the 9.0 SL with a Fox 34 fork and the 8.0 with a Pike RCT3 - thought RCT3 was a better fork.

  18. #18
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    Just my 2 cents, but it seems like most companies use Fox on anything 'high end'. In most cases rocksox is a better fork, but it almost seems like marketing. If it has a Fox it must be worth a lot of money.

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  19. #19
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    I bought a 2015 canyon strive 9 race with ridiculous mavic wheels. like 21mm. They wouldnt budge on swapping parts. Still I sold the wheels and tires for $500. The euro crowd is into really skinny wheels

  20. #20
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    The new Spectral CF 9.0 Ltd is a sweet looking ride. Does it fit 27.5+ by chance?


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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoutdog44 View Post
    The new Spectral CF 9.0 Ltd is a sweet looking ride. Does it fit 27.5+ by chance?


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    As far as I know, No.

  22. #22
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    They should resolve this by letting customers choose rims and tires and possibly fork and shock options. I get the economics of keeping the choices down but they stand to boost sales volume to make up for possible higher cost. They need to think bigger vs being risk adversed.

    Going to throw a curve out based on the prevailing preference here. I've tried the wide tire thing. I ride maybe 2x a week and for a recreational rider, I don't think the wider tires do much for me other than making it harder on the climbs. I am glad they went with the 26mm internal width ENVE rims on the high end 9.0 but then to appease the feedback they throw on heavy, high rolling resistant tires on there with the DHR to boot. This is a trail bike with 140mm travel why so much rubber?

    The best tire combo is a DHF Front and Rear 2.3 width. I've tried different tires and widths in the last 4 years between 4 different bikes and I keep going back to the Maxxis DHF 3C EXO TR 2.3 tires for both front and back. This tire offers incredible traction, there's no need to go wider. What I noticed with wider rim, lower pressure combo is that the bike lost its snappiness and felt like a big SUV vs a Porsche in a slalom course and I'd have to pump the tires up to gain that back only to lose cornering traction because the round tire profile would break traction a lot sooner.

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