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  1. #1
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    Reducer headset for a Taurine frame

    Hi guys,

    I just pull the trigger on a new Taurine carbon frame to replace my previous HT frame. I was looking for a carbon HT frame for a while and I found the geometry of the Taurine perfect for my taste. I can't wait to put my hand on the frame, build it up and enjoy every ride.

    I would like to mount a normal 100mm fork with 1 1/8" steerer on it (I know the potential of the Lefty but my budget was very limited, so for the moment I can afford only the frame). Thus I need to find a way to mount a 1 1/8" steerer on the frame. I read couple of threads but I didn't find a satisfactory answer and since I'm a bit of WW I would like a light reducer headset option. Following are my options and I would like your opinion on them

    1. Hope 1.5 Stepdown Headset: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=18085
      this would be my favorite choice: light, neat, nice lower stack height for more fork crown clearance and is well priced. BUT, the problem is that everywhere I read that it is not compatible with Cannondale frames . Tried to contact HOPE on this issue but I got no answer. I really don't understand why this would fit. Any opinions?
    2. Get a set of reducers: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?modelID=2219
      and use a normal headset. If I go this road I would go for a Cane Creek 110 or Solos headset. The problem is that I don't find any specs for them, or better pictures. Does anybody used them? Are there any weights available?
    3. Us the e13 1.5" reducer: http://www.e13components.com/product_zerostack.html
      and use a IS headset (also thinking at a Cane Creek). However I have the same problem as with the Hope headset, adn this is fitting. Will this adapter fit the Taurine headtube?
    4. FSA ORBIT Z 1.5R Headset
      The weight is not that bad but the lower stack can be too small!
    5. Cane Creek Double XC
      I found this headset a bit heavy and I think it will be overkill for the Taurine.
    6. I've seen some other option listed at: http://forum.tryonbike.com/index.php?topic=36.0
      but I would like a low stack hight, so no high stack reducers for me.


    I would really like to sort this issue fast such that I can order the headset/reducers until I will get the frame (should be here in ~10 days ).

    Happy trails,
    Adrian

  2. #2
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    Taurine

    I'm quite interested in this thread, as I may wish to swap my headshok DLR on a Taurine for a Rockshok SID in the futire. I would guess that as Cannondale sell the Taurine with normal front suspension units, they must have thier own reducers you can buy.

  3. #3
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    BUT, the problem is that everywhere I read that it is not compatible with Cannondale frames

    My guess is that insertion depth is not compatible.

  4. #4
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    Cannondale

    The reducer that comes on the factory Taurine is obviously going to be compatable. It's whether it's readily available from the LBS that may be the problem.

  5. #5
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    I just purchased the Cane Creek Double XC Short and I'm converting FROM reducers, don't do reducers man you won't really like it as much. Looks bulky and not as strong. The reason why the XC looks a bit more heavy is because it obviously has to have the extra material to reduce from 1.5 to 1.125 so don't look at the grams compared to other headsets, that's not apples to apples.

    The Cane Creek one used to be manufactured under another name, Aheadset, and IT would come as OEM equipment on cannondales for a few years so obviously Cannondale liked their design the best. I'm going for it and I would suggest you not follow my initial mistake to save money by going with the reducers.

  6. #6
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    pilotman28 can you post some pictures when you get the cane creak headset set up.
    cheers

  7. #7
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    Roadrunner: Why do you want to change a nice Fatty for a flexier, heavier SID?

    Sorry for the OT but just don't get why you want to do such a change.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner
    pilotman28 can you post some pictures when you get the cane creak headset set up.
    cheers

    Sure I'll find this thread again and post some for you. The reason you need to be very careful in which one you get is because the Cannondale headtubes require a more shallow cup insertion depth of I think 12MM. Most reducers will insert about 20MM so please be careful in which one you choose. I've been looking for a VERY VERY long time trying to get around paying $80 for the Cane Creek one but it's just not gonna be worth it.

    When I say a very long time I mean months researching and reading so take my pain as your gain, the best one out there is going to be the Cane Creek one because CC is the company who owns the patent which was used to manufacture the Aheadset FOR cannondale to put 1.125 steerers on their bikes from the factory. Aheadset doesn't exist anymore because CC didn't like how liberal people were getting in using their design patent and not paying for it, like FSA.

    But the key difference you'll need to look for in trying to find one other than the CC one is cup insertion depth not to exceed 12MM.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the replays guys,

    I did a bit more searching and it seems to be a mystery which headset will fit and which not. I don't know if it is only the insertion dept or it is also the inner diameter. I will wait to get the frame and take a close look at it, measure the insertion dept and the inner diameter and then decide for a headset. I will post here the specs of the Taurine's heatube such that this won't be an issue anymore.

    @pilotman28
    I won't do reducers, unless I have no other choice. The CC Double XC short is the safe choice, but I really don't like it. The headset is quoted at ~240 gram. Mounting such a headset on a Taurine frame makes no sens, weight wise ... Damn I need to consider a Lefty .

    But since you already bought a CC Double XC could you take all the quotes using a caliper and post them here? The insertion size and the outer diameter would be great. In this way we can compare with other headsets.


    I was searching around looking at Cannondale builds and seems that are some other options:

    1. For example on the Rize 4: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/cusa/model-9VT4.html
    they use as headset: "Cannondale Orbit Z 1.5" which sounds like a FSA but it looks very strange if you look close to the picture: tall lower cup with low upper cup.

    2. On the Rush Carbon 3: http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/c...del-8VM3Z.html
    they use "Cannondale Integrated ORBIT Z"
    I really wonder if these headsets are normal FSAs or they are specifically made for Cannondale.


    Another option would be to use a mixed headset (like on the Rize). For example, mount only the lower cup form the CC Double XC short and use as upper cup the FSA 1.5 Z. In this way you cat some weight and you also reduce the stack size.


    Anyway, I really need to solve this mystery. So first I need to put the hand on the frame.


    Adrian

  10. #10
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    My 2 LBS have stopped dealing with cannondale, so I'm a little concerned with a bespoke fork when it comes to servicing. The reducer gives you many more options for forks for the future.

  11. #11
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    Hi guys,

    I talk to the guys from Hope Technology and they gave me the measurements for the Hope 1.5" Step Down Headset. Quote:

    "the cup location diameter is 49.70 and the insertion depth is 10.5 with a 1.5 chamfer on at the bottom face"

    So the insertion dept of the headset is good (the CC Double XC short is around 12mm and it fits). The only thing to do now is to measure the inner diameter of the headtube. The frame should be here in one or two days. I'll keep you updated.

    Cheers,
    Adrian

  12. #12
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    OK, I got the frame some days ago (what a beauty ....) and I realize how far I was from the solution!

    The Taurine head tube is not a 1.5" head tube. Thus no reducer headset will work! A bit of research showed me that the frames that use a Fatty fork have a different headtube, namely a HeadShok head tube, which is a bit larger than a 1.5" head tube. The insertion depth is ~7mm and the insertion diameter is ~50.2mm, see picture:

    <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/adrian.alexa/BikeParts/photo#5192132735405417554"><img src="https://lh5.ggpht.com/adrian.alexa/SA4pNriEZFI/AAAAAAAAALA/QKgdfpxSyfI/s144/IMG_003.jpg" /></a>

    The 1.5" insertion diameter is 49.6mm, and the 1.5 headsets are 49.7. Thus no such headset will fit. I really wonder if the Cane Creek Double XC is made to fit the HeadShok. I kind of doubt that.

    So, the only option is to get a HeadShok adapter for 1 1/8" headsets. I looked on the web and seems that a low stack reducer is Cannondale #A388/EBO

    Hope this helps,
    Adrian

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by macadam
    Hi guys,

    I just pull the trigger on a new Taurine carbon frame to replace my previous HT frame. I was looking for a carbon HT frame for a while and I found the geometry of the Taurine perfect for my taste. I can't wait to put my hand on the frame, build it up and enjoy every ride.

    I would like to mount a normal 100mm fork with 1 1/8" steerer on it (I know the potential of the Lefty but my budget was very limited, so for the moment I can afford only the frame). Thus I need to find a way to mount a 1 1/8" steerer on the frame. I read couple of threads but I didn't find a satisfactory answer and since I'm a bit of WW I would like a light reducer headset option. Following are my options and I would like your opinion on them

    1. Hope 1.5 Stepdown Headset: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...?ModelID=18085
      this would be my favorite choice: light, neat, nice lower stack height for more fork crown clearance and is well priced. BUT, the problem is that everywhere I read that it is not compatible with Cannondale frames . Tried to contact HOPE on this issue but I got no answer. I really don't understand why this would fit. Any opinions?
    2. Get a set of reducers: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?modelID=2219
      and use a normal headset. If I go this road I would go for a Cane Creek 110 or Solos headset. The problem is that I don't find any specs for them, or better pictures. Does anybody used them? Are there any weights available?
    3. Us the e13 1.5" reducer: http://www.e13components.com/product_zerostack.html
      and use a IS headset (also thinking at a Cane Creek). However I have the same problem as with the Hope headset, adn this is fitting. Will this adapter fit the Taurine headtube?
    4. FSA ORBIT Z 1.5R Headset
      The weight is not that bad but the lower stack can be too small!
    5. Cane Creek Double XC
      I found this headset a bit heavy and I think it will be overkill for the Taurine.
    6. I've seen some other option listed at: http://forum.tryonbike.com/index.php?topic=36.0
      but I would like a low stack hight, so no high stack reducers for me.


    I would really like to sort this issue fast such that I can order the headset/reducers until I will get the frame (should be here in ~10 days ).

    Happy trails,
    Adrian
    Late into this thread but thought I would post the solution for any others doing this conversion in the future as there didn't seem a clear solution listed.

    There is indeed a cannondale part as listed in this thread that can be bought through your LBS, another good solution for the newer carbon frames is a reducer by Problem Solvers (the 2" to 1-1/8 Inch version). Pretty slick either way and gives some new flavor to these great frames!

  14. #14
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    not been through all the writing but known that the headset cups of carbon headtubes are permanent. Not to be removed.

    FSA, Hope, Canecreek all DO NOT fit.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuiwing
    not been through all the writing but known that the headset cups of carbon headtubes are permanent. Not to be removed.

    FSA, Hope, Canecreek all DO NOT fit.
    There is no cups in a carbon frame...The bearings are pressed directly into the headset and are removeable, I have done it before. The reducers have to be purchased directly from Cannondale and fit into those bearings to reduce the size 1 1/8".

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerro
    Roadrunner: Why do you want to change a nice Fatty for a flexier, heavier SID?

    Sorry for the OT but just don't get why you want to do such a change.
    I agree with you on the older SID (up to 2007). But the 2008/2009 SID is a whole different animal. I went from a Fatty to the new SID and I like it much better....I didn't expect I would ever say that

    As for the headset, the carbon cannondale frames must use extremely shallow bearings because of their bonded head cups and the minimal depth. It can only insert about 6mm!!!!

    I ordered a Cannondale headset from a 2008 Carbon Rush 3Z....as pictured below. LBS can order this and it cost about $70. It uses the ACB 36x45 angular contact bearings. TH Industries re-labeled by FSA for Cannondale...whew
    Attached Images Attached Images

  17. #17
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    I have tried this...

    the normal setup


    I took out the adapter and turned it around to get a lower stack height and had a look how it would look like,because I really dislike the lower adapter part and the height of 11-12 mm to high.

    upside down


    Adapter in frame


    But during installation I saw the material on the inside rings of the frame set. These are very tiny.

    frame insert


    ring depth


    So if you look at tiny ring that is on the inside of the frame and compare it with the outside (about 1 to 1.5 mm), I don't know if it is enough to carry all the load that will come on the small Aluminum ring/frame insert during biking.

    the difference is about 1 - 1.5 mm


    Would this be safe to ride?
    I don't know how a Rush frame headset-insert looks like, but if the inside of the headset/insert looks the same I will get the rush adapters as well. Otherwise I ave to look for something else

  18. #18
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    Hi pietje,

    your setup looks pretty good to me. I would not worry about the thin "inner ring". If it holds the ball bearing that is used for the Lefty/Fatty forks it will also hold the adapter.

    I used for a while (2 months or so) the Cannondale reducer headset (which look the same like the one shown by RaveOn) and it work great for me. It does have a lower stack then the one you have. Here are some pictures of the setup:


    <img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3365308176_c51b26d2f5_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMG_0492" />

    <img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3365308168_4cf648043c_o.jpg" width="876" height="1064" alt="IMG_0474" />

    <img src="https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3365308158_dfe8f6652a_b.jpg" width="1024" height="895" alt="IMG_0464" />


    I used this setup until I got the lefty fork. I still have the headset lying around in some corner. I don't plan to use it anymore (like to much the Lefty ...) and I'll be more than happy to find it a new home. If you are interested you can send me a PM.

    Cheers,
    Adrian

  19. #19
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    I know this is an old thread, but thanks for the closeup pics. I have a Rize 4, and when swapping to a new fork I've cracked the "washer" thing that pounds onto the fork crown. I'd like to just get a new headset, but it doesn't look like anything is sold these days. Even my LBS that sold the bike doesn't deal with Cannondale much anymore, and this bike is out of production. If anyone has suggestions, I'd like to hear them.
    "Got everything you need?"

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  21. #21
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    Ah, nice! Thanks man.
    "Got everything you need?"

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