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Thread: Perp or Moto

  1. #1
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    Perp or Moto

    Lottsa riders in my area are riding freeride bikes on our singletracks as they are on the side of the Niagara Escarpement. The trails are very rocky with a sorta roller coaster attitude. I havent got a chance to try either one and wonder if they would be applicable? I presently ride a Prophet and it performs very well. Or? am I just trying to talk myself into getting a new bike for selfish reasons?

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    You can configure your Prophet to be FR friendly. But I can see your temptation. Currently I ride a Prophet and a Judge; but do always crave that middle area in between. What bothers me sometimes about riding the Prophet FR is the low BB. Other than that it seems to perform fine. And what I mean by FR here (in northern California) is very rocky trails, small drops, some steep declines, etc. When I go to my local bike park it's Judge all the way. Although my Prophet survived black diamond trails last summer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mickeydesadist
    The trails are very rocky with a sorta roller coaster attitude.
    Well if you go the Moto way you have to consider navigating through your trails with your Carbon Frame...(Extra caution is needed or )

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    get a moto... lifetime warranty on the frame... 67 degree head tube.. the perp is awesome but but i think you'll appreciate the geometry on the moto for flowly single track, now for stunts and more freeride/DH oriented stuff id go for the perp

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    a carbon frame can take excactly the same hits as a alu frame -- end of discussion. An alloy frame can't take very much inb terms of direct hits to the frame either.

    i would def go for a moto. I was out riding with a friend yesterday and his perp was nowhere close to being as pedalfriendly as my 6 incher. An perp needs to weigh around 16-18kgs for a decent build, a moto would possibly be much lighter - which makes it extremly more nimble. 6 inches warrents some serious riding and would be the better choice for hard core trail riding.

    in terms of the prophet, putting a 36 up front might significantly alter the way it rides on trails due to the higher bb. I was gonna try it, but the project kinda went to pieces.

  6. #6
    More than somewhat.
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    Taurine 1.

    Don't hate on the headshok.

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    Well that's why all Megavalanche Riders with carbon frames attach part of a tyre in their down tubes to avoid the holes that sharp rocks are doing!!!

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    well, the only weakness with carbon fibre is the fact that they can delaminate. Protecting the frame sounds very reasonable to me. I just find it odd that people who are used to the paperthin alu designs of today find the even lighter/stiffer paperthin carbon designs a liability Neither frame is designed for direct impacts, but both can take them to some degree. If carbon was an unsuitable material for enduro bikes, i highly doubt scott and cannondale would introduce the material just in order to save weight

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    Yeah but if you mess this landing on a Perp you'll just have trouble with your bone structure what will happen if you're on a Moto in the same situation? (Since the Thread is Perp Vs. Moto)







    Note: the landing is not visible in these pictures...

  10. #10
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    The Moto is an aggressive trail bike, not a freeride bike. With the 14 in bb height it is designed for pedaling and ripping aggressive single track/trails like Downieville or Megavalanche Style riding. The Perp is a Dh rig that people are using as a freeride bike because it has a steeper seatube so you could extend your seatpost and climb if you like. The Perp has the exact same geo as the old Gemini DH frame but with a steeper seat tube for climbing. Pretty different bikes in my opinion. I have a Judge and I am waiting for my Moto 1 as we speak. I will be using a bb mount guide from E13 and setting it up for aggressive trail riding with a gravity dropper seatpost and the works. Should weigh in about 28 or so...we'll see. 09 Moto carbons should have iscg mounts as it was an oversight this year. Alloys have them as they figured most folks wanting to run them with single rings will want alloy...guess there's a lot of folks that want carbon and iscg like me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin G
    You can configure your Prophet to be FR friendly. But I can see your temptation. Currently I ride a Prophet and a Judge; but do always crave that middle area in between. What bothers me sometimes about riding the Prophet FR is the low BB. Other than that it seems to perform fine. And what I mean by FR here (in northern California) is very rocky trails, small drops, some steep declines, etc. When I go to my local bike park it's Judge all the way. Although my Prophet survived black diamond trails last summer.
    Ya in norcal we do have some very fun trails (pacifica). Anywho-try the FR setting. I switched from the XC setting a couple months ago, and I am way faster on the trails. You could also put on a short stem, riser bars, maybe a stronger wheelset (and fork). Just stronger all around components. That's what I'm doin to my prophet . I vote keep the prophet and set it up for more aggresive riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k.kazantzoglou
    Well if you go the Moto way you have to consider navigating through your trails with your Carbon Frame...(Extra caution is needed or )
    not true. i demoed this bike at sea otter and ate shizzz HARD lol. i was freaked out because these guys were letting me demo the bike and I was like **** I'm going to have to pay for this thing. When I got up the bike was fine. I was amazed.

  13. #13
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    I want to apologize for my skepticism It's just that I've grown with some preconceptions and these are hard to change...

  14. #14
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    hehe, well i think the moto is one fine bike. In terms of an alloy vs carbon version i believe it's a matter of strenght to weight ratios, where both can prob take the same kinda abuse, but where the alloy is cheaper and a little heavier.

    In terms of the drop, if the rider could handle it the bike would prob be fine as well. Dunno.

    I think the sceptisism is due to the fact that carbon can delaminate something that might not be a visible damage (that's where the extra frame protection comes in handy, carbon might be a bit more sensitive to direct hits to the frame). That being said, some of the more critical parts of airplanes are made of carbon and after crashes analysis have shown these parts to take forces waaay beyond what one thought they would when one designed them. I firmly believe that unless you happen to land directly on a rock with your frame (in which case you'll be screwed anyway) carbon can take whatever you throw its way, just like alloy. I would have no reservations what so ever of getting a moto.

    in terms of the perp as a trail bike, well one might build it light enough (around 16kg), but the geo is def not trail oriented. The front would be too high, the wheelbase prob too long, and so on and so on. Who needs 200mm travel for trail riding? Yeah you could run 180mm, but still, who needs 180mm of travel more than perhaps three times during a trail ride? It would prob work, but it would prob on the whole prob be a lot slower than a moto. 6 inches with the right geo makes for a ton of fun. When riding trails the parts where you can go the fastest and improve your time is between all the sketchy stuff while riding the sketchy stuff at a safe speed (as ones skills progresses these segments will also go faster and faster). A perp would mean going quite fast on the sketchy stuff, but a lot slower in between.

    i would recommend going the mx route (if you have a mx frame - though a regular frame can prob take the abuse as well) or getting a moto - whicherver makes you the more stoked and is the more pocketbook friendly. A perp/judge makes a lot more sense as a dh bike, so if you need a dh bike, get one of those.

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