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  1. #1
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    Pepperoni Blades Type 1 Headshok Help

    Hi,

    Firstly hello as I am a newbie to this site. Secondly I am after some information (hopefully).

    I have recently obtained a 1993 Cannondale Delta V 700 and have a problem with the headshok which I believe to be a Pepperoni Blade Type 1 Headshok.

    The problem I have is that the forks are permamently flat, although they seem to take & hold air (I have had 200psi in them).
    When you push down on the handlebar the forks go down but do not return until you lift the front wheel of the ground.

    I have taken the forks to bits now and since I am not the original owner I was hoping someone could help answer the following questions:-

    1) Is everything present in the pics below (apart from the needle bearings, boot & shims - didnt picture these)?
    2) How much oil do the forks take?
    3) Should there be an O'ring on the smaller ali threaded cap in the bottom picture?
    3) Do my symptoms point to just a lack of oil in the first place (since they take air)?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Please see the pics below:-










  2. #2
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    Prime candidate for the fork trade in program.

    Put a bullet in it, it's dead.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Prime candidate for the fork trade in program.

    Put a bullet in it, it's dead.
    Why is it dead? Can you explain a little more?

  4. #4
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    That generation of fork was non serviceable. The parts were designed to be ridden till they crapped out, then replaced in whole, as a unit.

    Besides that fact, no parts for them have been available for easily 10 years +.

    Not that it was functional before, but by taking it apart, you inadvertently put the last nail in the coffin.

    Don't feel bad though, you aren't the first to do this, and you won't be the last.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    That generation of fork was non serviceable. The parts were designed to be ridden till they crapped out, then replaced in whole, as a unit.

    Besides that fact, no parts for them have been available for easily 10 years +.

    Not that it was functional before, but by taking it apart, you inadvertently put the last nail in the coffin.

    Don't feel bad though, you aren't the first to do this, and you won't be the last.
    Thanks for the feedback and sorry for all the direct questions but what makes you think it won't work once I replace all of the o rings and reassemble it?

    Just trying to get a clearer understanding, thanks for your patience.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddlingpool
    what makes you think it won't work once I replace all of the o rings and reassemble it?
    Because you can't get it back together, filled with oil, with no air in the oil. It will simply self destruct under it's own self created internal pressure.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Because you can't get it back together, filled with oil, with no air in the oil. It will simply self destruct under it's own self created internal pressure.
    There is a small brass valve (nipple) at the bottom, inside of the main seal shaft that if you push it up it will open the oil chamber into the top part of the chamber (where the air goes from the shock pump I believe). Leaving this open and drawing the oil through it will surely remove any air from the oil right? Hope this makes sense from my description.

    Isn't this how cannondale would have done it when they first assembled it?

  8. #8
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    I'm not saying it's like fitting a square peg in a round hole. I'm saying it can't be done to a level that will give anywhere near OEM performance results. You can likely get some oil in, and get it to work, sort of, but it won't work long, and it won't feel at all like it did when it was new. You'll also likely spend a long, messy, frustrating time, trying, to get said results.

    Just trying to save you a headache, which you seem determined to give yourself.

    For several hundred dollars, you can convert that fork into a brand new DLR 80.

    Ask around, you'll find that I love keeping the old stuff rolling if it's worth it, I'm not a toss it out and buy new for the hell of it, kind of guy.

    Have fun messing around with it though, cool to see how they made it work, BITD...
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Just trying to save you a headache, which you seem determined to give yourself.
    Im very stubborn, and determine not to give in (would like to keep the bike looking as original as possible)

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Ask around, you'll find that I love keeping the old stuff rolling if it's worth it, I'm not a toss it out and buy new for the hell of it, kind of guy.
    Yeah, I think I've read all of your posts on these subjects. Very helpful and knowledgable.
    I was hoping you'd reply to my thread when I first posted it

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    For several hundred dollars, you can convert that fork into a brand new DLR 80.
    If all else fails do you know if I can retro fit a cartridge to this fork so I can keep it looking original?
    It seems to suggest that you can here:-
    http://www.fastglass.net/bike/headsh...niblades50.pdf
    but then I have read a few posts where people have said it isnt possible?

    Thanks

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddlingpool
    If all else fails do you know if I can retro fit a cartridge to this fork so I can keep it looking original?
    Nope, they won't work, too many differences. Sorry.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



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  11. #11
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    One last question, do you know how much oil I should put in the fork when I reassemble?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddlingpool
    One last question, do you know how much oil I should put in the fork when I reassemble?
    Just about all Cannondale systems, (save the Fox RLC's) are a complete fill. Less, and you get huge internal pressure build up, hence the pressure compensators in current crop of damper. Even a bit of air becomes troublesome with use.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  13. #13
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    Delta-V 1500 Front Suspension

    Sorry to hijack your thread paddling pool but i have the same problem with my Delta-V, and like you i am refusing to let the Headshok die...

    I have a Delta-V 1500, took it to the LBS and all they did was fill it up with air charge me $100 (I was thinking they were gonna rebuild it) and all was good for few weeks but now the shock is dead again. I was thinking of getting a DLR80 to replace the older Delta-V shock but am kinda hesitant to pull the trigger. Anyone know of any other headshoks other than a DLR80 that can be used a direct fit replacement for the Delta V front suspension shock?

    When i wrote Cannondale they recommended a headset reducer and picking up an aftermarket fork. I guess that is their way of telling me to buy a new bike... lol

    I know my Delta-V is old but i like the frame design and i fly through the trails with it..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gryder
    Anyone know of any other headshoks other than a DLR80 that can be used a direct fit replacement for the Delta V front suspension shock?
    I'm 98% they are all the same. The 2% says the first gen ones were different sizes from one another but my Pleistocene knowledge gets a bit fuzzy.

    I shot an email off just now, just want to make sure....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  15. #15
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    Early ones had a larger top bearing.

    If yours are equal size, you should be fine with a modern Headshock.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  16. #16
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    Thanks for your help MCSmith!

    I'll go ahead and give it a shot, hopefully i can find something on ebay.

    I have an older Delta-V, according th the serial # it was built in 1991, so the bike will be 20 years old in a few months... Hopefully my DV doesn't belong to the 2% you mentioned.

  17. #17
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    Just a quick update on this thread:-

    I played around with using different volumes of oil & rebuilding it and in the end settled for 50ml.
    It seems to do the trick and i can recommend that volume.

    I have 1 problem left now which is that there seems to be an air leak coming from somewhere.
    The fork stays up overnight but is then flat in the morning.

    I didnt replace all of the o rings inside as i couldnt locate the perfect match for some of them.

    So I will try a little harder to find these o rings and then rebuild the fork again.
    Anyone know where I could get an o ring kit from for these forks?

  18. #18
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    The seal kits for these are obsolete as Mendon CycleSmith said in the first few posts. I have found the air valve itself to be a common source of leaking. Check the schraeder valve I would replace it you can get some valve core replacements with a tool at AutoZone or a parts store. Replace the inner valve core and see if it holds pressure any better. Good Luck!

  19. #19
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    I know this is not a current thread, but also have my old workhorse Delta V 700 '93 with air / oil and it finally lost dampening. I still had air but it would pogo like crazy. LBS told me it was non servicable as guys here said as well. I'm sourcing a Ultra fatty or whatever they call it 80mm travel.

    I heard even though the old OD on the steering tube is 40mm like the Ultra, I will need new upper headset bearings and bearing mounts (not races, per se, but the press in mount thingy (flange?). I would think that the steering stem being the same OD it would fit the same way. Just saying. BTW, this uses the old school split upper and lower bearing mount with the screw in it.

    The older guys in LBS told me about it, but a younger guy later asked me if I needed help and I asked, he was born in '92 told him the bike was '93 and we had a laugh.

    To the O.Post guy - are you keeping those oddball brakes the bike came with? I canned those long ago, but I have the stuff in a bag in the attic. sell if it you want it, but honestly that was a nitemare to keep running right.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkdaddy View Post
    I know this is not a current thread, but also have my old workhorse Delta V 700 '93 with air / oil and it finally lost dampening. I still had air but it would pogo like crazy. LBS told me it was non servicable as guys here said as well. I'm sourcing a Ultra fatty or whatever they call it 80mm travel.

    I heard even though the old OD on the steering tube is 40mm like the Ultra, I will need new upper headset bearings and bearing mounts (not races, per se, but the press in mount thingy (flange?). I would think that the steering stem being the same OD it would fit the same way. Just saying. BTW, this uses the old school split upper and lower bearing mount with the screw in it.

    The older guys in LBS told me about it, but a younger guy later asked me if I needed help and I asked, he was born in '92 told him the bike was '93 and we had a laugh.

    To the O.Post guy - are you keeping those oddball brakes the bike came with? I canned those long ago, but I have the stuff in a bag in the attic. sell if it you want it, but honestly that was a nitemare to keep running right.
    Funny, I was just talking with someone about this. Yes, you need the new cups and bearings. The old school stuff had a slightly larger OD and corresponding ID for the bearings. The bearing seats are different, a new fork in the older headset will simply fall out, despite being able to use the same stem as the older set up....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  21. #21
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    Just because I love my '93 DeltaV 700, I had to chime in.
    I put a new '11 DLR80 on my DeltaV and it is superb. It did lower the head tube by about 1/8 of an inch but I cannot notice too much difference from the ride height.
    I love the look of the new headshok as well. I got rid of my pepperoni curved blades around '95 when my original air/oil headshok died and I had to get an elastomer crap job put in. I'm also enjoying the extra 20mm of travel
    Good luck on making the original shock work!

  22. #22
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    Ginga / Mendon -

    Mendon, that was me on the phone and emails. I know you are the man when it comes to this from what I read here, but I could not come to grips with how if the tube was the same dia I could not reuse my old bearings on it and be good for another 18 years LOL. I'll see if I can get the new fork and cross that bridge when I get there. Your price on the parts is good and I'd like to give you the business just not sure I am going to end up with that fork yet.

    Ginga - I am not trying to rebuild the old unit, but just like you figuring on using a newer HS. I liked my air/oil and am going to go that direction. You sound like my kind of guy riding that old stuff. I was in VA on a trip and riding some sweet trails there, and talked to some younger riders on guy was telling me his buddys had bought a new bike every 4 months to upgrade to something, I think I blew his mind when asked about my bike and I told him it was a '93! It climbs well but obviously takes more patience on rough stuff and downhill than the new mushy bikes. I have a FS bike I bought used off CL, its a Supergo Weyless - a sort of Heckler clone frame with 100mm up front and about 4" back but it seems to wear me out, the geometry seems all wrong for XC compared to the cannondale. Not sure if I will keep messing with it or bail and try a whole new bike. That fork although newer was roughed up by original owner and leaks oil bad, parts for that Marzocchi marathon are expensive, especially given I am not that keen on the bike yet. may just part it out on Ebay, has some good stuff like hayes disks, xt, fox float, etc.

    I have some old stuff laying about, I put a set of Onza pedals on Ebay just in case someone wants them (LOL) they are very well used but the bearings perfect - just crappy pedal mechanism! Wife has a old Fuji with a RockShock Indy fork and cantiliver brakes, thumbshifters, but for riding with our small kids to the pool and stuff it does the job! She does have a Ti / Ultegra roadbike however....

    I was using a Panaracer smoke type rear tire I found in my attic that had great tread but after a few months of use the cords broke. It had the gum rubber sidewall if you remember those. Just replaced that with a tire that was on set of wheels I bought on craigslist. Hard to fathom the prices that MTN bike tires (or road) tires go for these days! Just call me the "retro grouch" LOL

  23. #23
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    Oh my Delta V 700 setup:

    OEM crank, replaced rings a few times
    custom built wheelsets, wore out original ones, xt hubs
    SRAM 9.0 Front/rear, 9.0 grip shift
    Avid SD brakes, SD levers
    OEM stem new handlebar years and years ago can't remember what it was or why
    OEM seatpost,
    Seat is also ancient, not sure if its OEM or not...I'm thinking its original ! Where the hole is on the new seats, on the underside of mine the plastic support frame is cracked which gives way and makes it more comfortable. Been so darn long I can't remember.
    Bar ends of some type, dogleg type. saved my hands a lot in crazy crashes and from trees smacking hands, climbing position on long climbs.

    I took the thing to Moab in 2000 with some buddies and it rode rough as heck but climbed like a goat. Those downhills out there....dang, tough stuff. Ledges, landing on car battery sized rocks, banging banging banging, I thought I was going to break this bike many many times but it never does. Rode a wheelie off a loading dock in younger days landed like Moto Xer on back wheel and stuff, it has been a hell of a bike. But its not pretty, its beat all to heck on the paint.

    Does your bike washout the front end? That's my only complaint about the darn thing, I hope the 80mm changes the geometry a bit. I've tried different tires, stem positions, seat positions, etc and it still washes out the front. Ridden other bikes on same terrain and no issue so I know its not me.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkdaddy View Post
    Does your bike washout the front end? That's my only complaint about the darn thing, I hope the 80mm changes the geometry a bit. I've tried different tires, stem positions, seat positions, etc and it still washes out the front. Ridden other bikes on same terrain and no issue so I know its not me.
    That's why I like 29ers, Fat bikes, and tubeless, lower pressure tires....

    Seriously though? Since you don't have the problem on other bikes, I don't have a solid answer, but the above suggestions (tubeless and lower pressure being the only ones you can use for that bike) do improve front end traction.

    Glad it was you on the phone and here, too odd having to folks with that same dinosaur, AND the same issue, in the same day!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  25. #25
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    For FYI on others reading this at a later date, I got a ULTRA fatty headshok used 80mm air / oil and came with a bottom bearing (most do as they are not simple to remove my observation). Although I thought I may need a new headset to make it work as I was told anyway, the dia of the '07 headshok was exactly the same and so it installed perfectly using my old style headset upper bearing and "races" (not really races as its a sealed bearing but bearing mount?). Works great. Only thing is I ended up paying a pretty decent price for my used headshok but it was rebuilt and and clean shape.

    For those installing, I found using my workstand, rotate the bike upside down, get a section of PVC pipe to fit - think it was 1 1/2" DWV PVC and cut length so that the bike fork crown will be at comfortable height to hit it with hammer - about 3' for me. Slide the upper headshock tube inside the PVC pipe so it holds the bearing up against the bearing mount (races?). Get a 2x4 about 12" long and drill a hole on the 1.5" side about 2" from end, the hole large enough for a schrader valve to fit inside. Fit 2x4 over the valve on the bottom of the fork crown, hit that with a hammer a few times and that should seat the bearing just fine. Don't over do it. A touch of oil makes it go smoother.

    You're done. Mount stem and all that stuff. Enjoy.

  26. #26
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    Actually they are serviceable........I just finished doing mine....real easy to do when you know how...
    I completely tore mine down, replaced a needle bearing strip (for some reason one needle was missing), changed the oil (5weight) and replaced the boot with a newer gen/shorter one. Bleeding procedure is real simple on these, so is re-assembling the upper and lower telescope as 2 of the outers are adjustable.
    I just took my bike for a spin around the block and this thing is smooth as silk now!!!
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by paddlingpool View Post
    Just a quick update on this thread:-

    I played around with using different volumes of oil & rebuilding it and in the end settled for 50ml.
    It seems to do the trick and i can recommend that volume.

    I have 1 problem left now which is that there seems to be an air leak coming from somewhere.
    The fork stays up overnight but is then flat in the morning.

    I didnt replace all of the o rings inside as i couldnt locate the perfect match for some of them.

    So I will try a little harder to find these o rings and then rebuild the fork again.
    Anyone know where I could get an o ring kit from for these forks?

    make sure to take apart the rebound rod and apply some red loctite on all of the threads upon re-assembly.
    Also, the upper air seal is a v type seal.....meaning it'll expand and create a better seal with higher pressure.....if it leaks air overnight when you pump it up to like 60psi, but doesn't leak if you put like 120-150 in it then that seal is shot and almost impossible to get.
    Also, make sure the "open end" of this seal is facing the airchamber....on my very first fork rebuild back in the days I put it on facing the other way and it took one of the factory techs to point it out and embarrass me infront of my boss....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  28. #28
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    I'm getting DLR internals for mine.

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