Results 1 to 82 of 82
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    174

    New Jekyll and Claymore


  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    45
    Anyone know how much travel the Jeckle will have and do you know if it is replacing the RZ140?

  3. #3
    rebelssof@yahoo.com
    Guest
    That's sweet!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Duncan1104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,181
    Those do look pretty sweet. So if they bring back the Jekyll then they should bring back the prophet at some point. Why doesn't the Jekyll have a lefty? Looks like a proprietary rear shock though.
    Last edited by Duncan1104; 06-14-2010 at 08:49 AM.

  5. #5
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    As much as I never liked the old Jekyll, this one looks wonderfull! It will be even better with a Lefty though. The Claymore looks too much like a Giant/Specialized for my tastes though.
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 06-14-2010 at 09:27 AM.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    Not sure about naming a bike after an anti-personel mine:
    the Claymore ..Death and Destruction. Probably not gonna go over too well in Euro-land.
    I wonder if they realize 'the rest of the world' doesn't think that kind of sh1t is too cool.

    Jekyll looks nice tho....

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: az1jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    . The Claymore looks too much like a Giant/Specialized for my tastes though.
    . . +1.

    I like the new Jekyll. They even brought back the little Jekyll guy character (seat post tube). Although, if Cannondale is going for nostalgia, I'd prefer they re-release the Super V.

    jeff
    Last edited by az1jeff; 06-14-2010 at 10:07 AM.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    As much as I never liked the old Jekyll, this one looks wonderfull! It will be even better with a Lefty though. The Claymore looks too much like a Giant/Specialized for my tastes though.
    Agree to your comment about the Claymore. At first I thought I was looking at an FSR! The new Jekyll looks nice though. If it has 160mm of travel I doubt that it would have a Lefty. Only way to go for me, Also, Anyone notice the wheels? Look like Crank Brothers. Finally, does this mean that the Moto is dead? I don't think that one sold well anyway.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6
    Actually the Claymore is named after a huge Broadsword. The one that mel gibson threw in Braveheart.
    As in scalpel= light and sharp and cuts through anything (like the bike
    Claymore= huge broad blade to hack some heads off with (like a DH/All mountain bike)

  10. #10
    ride more
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,626
    Looks great

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by adkbiker1
    Anyone know how much travel the Jeckle will have and do you know if it is replacing the RZ140?
    150mm for the New Jekyll. Found it on Ridemonkey:

    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=233076

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: V.P.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,704
    180mm for the claymore. Wonder how the shocks work. And wonder if these bike are the end of the Moto.

  13. #13
    I dd what you see there.
    Reputation: XLNC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    717
    My understanding was it was called a Jekyll because of the ability to change the headtube geometry through the adjuster collar on the rear shock (or a split personality bike just like Jekyll and Hyde).

    I wonder if this new bike has the same (or a similar) feature?

    Apparently it's a "pull" type rear shock so it would be quite impressive if it did.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    206
    So, it's like a Scott Genius then.

  15. #15
    Ridin' dirty!
    Reputation: cdalemaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    The Claymore looks too much like a Giant/Specialized for my tastes though.
    no wonder...probably made at the same factory with the same materials in asia...hah,hah,hah...
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,513
    For some reason in Europe I don't believe the spec. the lefty or at least not as much.

  17. #17
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    It's those 'flavor of the moment curved down tubes' that gives it a Giant look. What matters is the ride though...

    So they showed these yesterday, media were supposed to keep them secret until the 22nd (that explains the original article disappearing)... Today they gave the media a good look at the new 2011 Scalpel we already saw prototypes of, I think they showed new Lefties too.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by CHSAD
    For some reason in Europe I don't believe the spec. the lefty or at least not as much.
    I'll let you know in a few days after I get to ride them.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by XLNC
    My understanding was it was called a Jekyll because of the ability to change the headtube geometry through the adjuster collar on the rear shock (or a split personality bike just like Jekyll and Hyde).

    I wonder if this new bike has the same (or a similar) feature?

    Apparently it's a "pull" type rear shock so it would be quite impressive if it did.


    check this: under the BB, two cables appear. one for the rear derrie, the other for the front.
    Ont top of the downtube, again two cables: one for the rear brake, but what about the other? Seems like it goes into the rear shock...
    And check the weird handle at the right side of the bar...
    Maybe XLNC will have it right...

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    372
    its like a combination of the Specialized top tube and brace, with the random suspension design of Scott (really, another pull shock?), and the styling of GT and Orbea. Cannondale has never had a good solid identity or direction with their mountain bike line - and this is no exception. I'm not calling it a fail, but certainly not a platform you'd want to build on for a company as large as Cannondale. Maybe they are targeting the euros, who love the wacky shocks
    here we go again

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    486
    Look amazing. I was wondering what would go between the RZ140 and the Moto. I think they're going for the trail bike/all arounder for the Jekyll. A free ride bike? I thought that was what the Iron Horse brand was for...

    WHY did they have to go with a pull shock? I avoid Scotts for that reason. I avoid Spesh, and Trek for proprietary stuff too. I know the Lefty is proprietary also but you can fit a converter without adversely affecting the overall system, but I am a tinkerer. I built my own bike from the frame up, and even though it all adds up to a somewhat better system I just don't like not having options.

    I built my own PCs for the same reason.

    Of course I might test ride one and fall in love with it instantly. I'll reserve final judgment after a good test ride.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    good point about the origin of Claymore. I personally like the name, but outside North America folks generally don't go for the war / battle references...
    anyway, crazy if the RZ and Moto are alerady being replaced...seems like just yesterday they were big news.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nathanbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,441
    it seems as though denk (or maybe dorel?) is making sure that all the "new" creations dont necessarily have too much reference back to the immediate past. Taurine was the same... I'm surprised the Scalpel doesnt get a new name!!!
    Last edited by nathanbal; 06-15-2010 at 05:52 AM.

  24. #24
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    15,781
    No Lefty, lotso pivots to creak, giving totally new bikes, old names, cool. Looks like every other bike on the market now.

    I agree. Bring back the Super V, but with more travel, a travel adjust, platform adjustable 140 Lefty, and make it here. Then, they'd have me again.

    Oh, and please scrap the green, it's just loathesome, and to be fair, I never liked, it, even when they did it 10+ years ago.

    Come on Cannondale, I expect more. Someone needs to say it....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nathanbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,441
    give me a full carbon scalpel weighing in less than 1900g with shock and they'll have me ;-)

  26. #26
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    They didn't hire Denk to make old school revival bikes, the V were not riding too great IMO, plus they didn't look too good either. His job is to make the best performing bikes they can and so far so good.
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbal
    give me a full carbon scalpel weighing in less than 1900g with shock and they'll have me ;-)
    Check! √
    They showed it to the media yesterday, lighter, stiffer, stronger... expect more details soon but the official media embargo will last another week or so...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    the official media embargo will last another week or so...

    right. like the bikes in this thread that are supposed to be under wraps till mid next week.

  28. #28
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Well we saw the 2011 Scalpel way before the Jekyll and Claymore, we pretty much know what the new Scalpel, or SuperScalpel, is and we also know about the Xloc Lefty... But real, official information, details about just how the pull shock and the geometry adjust and coverage from the media will respect the date... Then we'll have a much better look, better photos of the new bikes.
    Last edited by Dan Gerous; 06-15-2010 at 06:23 PM.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    No Lefty, lotso pivots to creak, giving totally new bikes, old names, cool. Looks like every other bike on the market now.

    I agree. Bring back the Super V, but with more travel, a travel adjust, platform adjustable 140 Lefty, and make it here. Then, they'd have me again.

    Oh, and please scrap the green, it's just loathesome, and to be fair, I never liked, it, even when they did it 10+ years ago.

    Come on Cannondale, I expect more. Someone needs to say it....
    + 1 especially the part about too many pivots.

  30. #30
    Stewed Screwed & Tattooed
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    645
    FYI it has the same number of pivots as the rize or any other single pivot bike out there.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    Quote Originally Posted by bad ronald
    FYI it has the same number of pivots as the rize or any other single pivot bike out there.
    Any single pivot? Even Santa Cruz Heckler or Bullit? Am I missing something?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    301
    I will not disagree that the Rize/RZ ( and others like it) have a similar number of pivots.

    I just do not buy the Cannondale press that says the Rize/RZ line is a true single pivot.

    The Rize has 4 pivot locations (not including shock ends).

    The Rush/Prophet have 1 pivot location (not including shock ends) and of course the Scapel has zero pivots.

    The bikes in this thread appear to have 4 pivot locations (not including shock ends).

  33. #33
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    But what really makes a bike a single pivot is the number of pivots between the front triangle, the main frame, and the rear wheel. Only one pivot determines the axle path. The other pivots don't interfere with the axle path, they are only there to better control the shock's stroke, it's feel and also to improve lateral stiffness of the rear end. The Rize/RZ and the Jekyll and Claymore are all true single-pivots.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  34. #34
    Ridin' dirty!
    Reputation: cdalemaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,948
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    But what really makes a bike a single pivot is the number of pivots between the front triangle, the main frame, and the rear wheel. Only one pivot determines the axle path. The other pivots don't interfere with the axle path, they are only there to better control the shock's stroke, it's feel and also to improve lateral stiffness of the rear end. The Rize/RZ and the Jekyll and Claymore are all true single-pivots.
    more pivots equals more lateral stiffness? am i missing something? it only allows for a lighter, fancier design...for years cannondale engineers set the standard for (true) single pivot bikes....almost zero maintenance, stiff, reliable etc.....when they introduced the rize series problems that any mtb with a bunch of pivots suffers from started to surface.....play in suspension, worn bushings, side to side play, creaking etc.
    cannondale made a 180 on their original philosophy......so please quit trying to convince everyone that the more pivots a bike has the better only because cannondale produces them that way now.....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  35. #35
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Are you saying the Rize/RZ have had pivot problems? Accelerated wear and slop?

    Try a Prophet, then a Rize, then back, the Rize is a much stiffer design. Same thing when Cannondale introduced the Judge after the Gemini, the added links to the suspension improved stiffness a lot.

    On a 'true' single-pivot, all the stiffness must come from a structure that can be simplified as the rear axle, the main pivot, and the swingarm that connects both. On a design like the Rize or the new Jekyll, the seatstays and swinglink also help stiffening the whole thing. Looking at both designs from the side, you have one line for a 'true' single-pivot, and a triangle for the other. It's theorically much stiffer. Plus, on many 'true' single-pivots, the rear shocks take a lot of sideways forces, having the rear shock part of what keeps the rear end laterally stiff is not a good idea, it creates stiction, accelerates bushing and the shock seals wear... That's all theorically. Not all pivots are created equal, and generally, bearings last longer and spin better than bushings but add a bit of weight...

    Both have pros and cons but I think Cannondale should be allowed to move forward if it means a better ride. Traditions and history is one thing, but if performance can be improved, I say screw the old way to do things. And while Cannondale is known to stay true to it's principles, at least they follow their most important, make the best performance possible, whatever the way.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    If the other "pivot points" are not pivots, then what are they? To call a bike single pivot when there really are more pivots is misleading. As far as I am concerned my Rush is a true single pivot design, but then I am not an engineer.

  37. #37
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    If the other "pivot points" are not pivots, then what are they? To call a bike single pivot when there really are more pivots is misleading. As far as I am concerned my Rush is a true single pivot design, but then I am not an engineer.
    The other pivots are only there to generate internet forum content!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Try a Prophet, then a Rize, then back, the Rize is a much stiffer design. Same thing when Cannondale introduced the Judge after the Gemini, the added links to the suspension improved stiffness a lot..
    True. On my Rush, I could feel the rear end fle on steep climbs and strokes where you have to put a lot of power on the rear end. no so with my Rize.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    Not here to knock the new stuff; I'm sure they work better than the bikes they replace.
    I just wonder if they could have improved on the "true single pivot" designs.
    For example, Santa Cruz has added links to their single pivot designs.
    Checkout the Nickel and the Butcher.
    Also, Foes Racing has a prototype called the Fluid with a similar design.
    As good or better than the Cannondale designs? Don't know. Just food for thought.

  40. #40
    I dd what you see there.
    Reputation: XLNC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    717
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister T.
    ... but what about the other? Seems like it goes into the rear shock...
    And check the weird handle at the right side of the bar...
    Maybe XLNC will have it right...
    Wouldn't get too excited, it's likely a rear shock remote lockout.

    However, with enough money I can still dream.......

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,386
    Quote Originally Posted by cdalemaniac
    no wonder...probably made at the same factory with the same materials in asia...hah,hah,hah...
    hey, you stole my line!
    whatever...

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PG256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    293
    They look sweet! The guy in the first pic used to be my shops rep, he's awesome, funny seeing him online...

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by alias
    the official media embargo will last another week or so...

    right. like the bikes in this thread that are supposed to be under wraps till mid next week.
    Apparently the Czechs didn't understand the meaning of the word embargo.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Duncan1104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,181
    Quote Originally Posted by PG256
    They look sweet! The guy in the first pic used to be my shops rep, he's awesome, funny seeing him online...
    Murray right? I thought that was him.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: PG256's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    293
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan1104
    Murray right? I thought that was him.
    Yep that's him.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    If the other "pivot points" are not pivots, then what are they? To call a bike single pivot when there really are more pivots is misleading. As far as I am concerned my Rush is a true single pivot design, but then I am not an engineer.
    i used to have a carbon rush if you looked down at the seat tube while pushing the big ring on the paved. it moved sideways between the swingarm at least 0.5 cm.
    okay i am big 1.90 cm and heavy 92 kg but now there's nothing moving on my rize neither on the flash 29er logic...

  47. #47
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    15,781
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    If the other "pivot points" are not pivots, then what are they?
    Squeak points.

    As has been said, single pivot design refers to the number of pivots in between the main one at the BB, and the axle. If nothing interrupts that line it's a single pivot. Take a Specialized then, and look, there's a pivots in front of the axle, so the wheels path can be controlled differently.

    Confusing I know, I deal with that question all the time.

    As for all the pivots, well, soon enough the big C will be calling VPP or DW "the next big thing" in their quest to look like all other makers, in my rather cynical mind at least

    @ DG, I know they didn't hire someone to rehash old designs or do a wistful remake, but it's like the "new" Camaro or Charger. Give it up already, if you aren't going to actually make it like the original(and perhaps improve upon it) then call it something else. To call it a Jekyll, and then make it look and function like an utterly different machine is silly, and makes it look kinda sad, like no one had a better idea for a name. Or that it's simply a marketing ploy to try and attract the long lost members of the tribe. Ford's made the Mustang all along, same with Chevy and the Corvette. You have far more license to tweak something if it's a model year change, than if you use a historical moniker and slap it on some johnny come lately design. Just me though I guess.

    As for Super V's sucking? Yeah, but it wasn't their fault. Tried one with a modern platform shock ever? Wholesale different beast, and one reason why the Uber V's are so popular.

    The reason single pivot designs are as marketable as ever is due to them. And the whole reason for all the claptrap other builders played with over the years, was to get around the biopacing that was impossible to control without them. It's also why the Prophet was such a revolutionary ride for Cannondale, coming on the back of the Jekyll, all that billy bobby was gone

    All good, I just think someone needs to hold their feet to the flames. Some darker colors (god that green is tired and nasty, look at my Kawasaki brah, ain't she sick?), perhaps some of the cool *historical* finishes like polished, or galvanized, and some new names for their new toys. I'm still holding my breath for a LT FS 29er, but that's for another day.... I think they'll still sell like hotcakes to all those who just wanted a Cannondale forever, but couldn't afford them when they were MUSA.

    Besides, I'm not their Mom, I don't have to love them unconditionally.....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chick0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    561
    These bikes look great IMHO... As a owner of a Rize, i will admit i have always felt that the looks were the worst thing about it. The Rize had last generation detailing, even when it was first released. These new Designs look fresh and up to date.
    The push rear shock ( if thats what it is) is worrying though, i will be avoiding that like the plague...

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    61
    It's funny how people in this thread have formed opinions about these bikes already when there may be 2 of us who actually know how they work and have ridden them. Just wait until the 22nd, have an open mind, and base your opinion on some real info not some cell phone pics.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nathanbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,441
    c'mon... internet forums would be useless without all the baseless speculation!!!!!

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: chick0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    561
    Quote Originally Posted by Junior Varsity
    It's funny how people in this thread have formed opinions about these bikes already when there may be 2 of us who actually know how they work and have ridden them. Just wait until the 22nd, have an open mind, and base your opinion on some real info not some cell phone pics.

    Its a valid point... But these "spy" pictures were always going to cause people to speculate and judge, especially with in the Cannondale community, which is extremely loyal.. I'm looking forward to hearing the details

    The silhouette of the Jekyll reminded me on first view of the current Lapierre Zesty ( obviously not the rear suss design), but certainly the front and rear triangle shapes, over all stance and the angular tubing.
    In my option, this is no bad thing, as the Lapierre Zesty is a beautiful looking bike.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Jekyll and Claymore-lapierre-zesty-714-2010.jpg  

    New Jekyll and Claymore-cannondale2011denk_blesk.jpg  


  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Duncan1104's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,181
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I think they'll still sell like hotcakes to all those who just wanted a Cannondale forever, but couldn't afford them when they were MUSA.
    I agree with them still selling well, but they probably won't lower the prices on these things with different a production location.

  53. #53
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
    Reputation: MendonCycleSmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    15,781
    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbal
    c'mon... internet forums would be useless without all the baseless speculation!!!!!
    Yeah, really.



    Besides, I love having Epinions.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    301
    Many interesting, educational and funny points made about what is a "true single pivot", of which I think I get the points made by DG and MCS. Learn something new every day.

    Based upon what I think I understand where would the Fisher/Trek ABP design fit in? Single pivot or double pivot

    Relating back to the point of the thread I will say that the down tube on the Jekyll where it meets the crank hanger looks to be a design that would do well to reduce flex at that area while under pedaling or suspension loads.

  55. #55
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Besides, I love having Epinions.
    We all love it, otherwise, why would we be here?
    Quote Originally Posted by ASI CA
    Based upon what I think I understand where would the Fisher/Trek ABP design fit in? Single pivot or double pivot
    It's still basically a single pivot design as the concentric pivot location doesn't affect the axle path...

    By the way, Gary Fisher, as a brand, is dead. From 2011, they will all be Trek bikes but there will be Trek bikes labelled in a Gary Fisher collection. Details here.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    We all love it, otherwise, why would we be here?
    It's still basically a single pivot design as the concentric pivot location doesn't affect the axle path...

    By the way, Gary Fisher, as a brand, is dead. From 2011, they will all be Trek bikes but there will be Trek bikes labelled in a Gary Fisher collection. Details here.
    Interesting about GF, I wonder if all the Fisher people will spend two years bemoaning the fact in the same way the MUSA people do here.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    Thanks to everyone for clearing up the meaning of single pivot. Makes some sense. Its just that some executions of that design can be more complicated than others from what I understand. Apparently Cannondale has no choice if they want to make better performing bikes.

    The new bikes look very nice, just not for me. I'm more interested in shorter travel, less complicated trail bikes with a Lefty.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171

    Single Pivot

    Don't want to beat a dead horse but this was driving me crazy. I found this on Wikipedia:

    The Single pivot is the simplest type of rear suspension. It simply consists of a pivot near the bottom bracket and a single swingarm to the rear axle. The rear axle will always rotate in a part-circle around the pivot point. Some implementations use linkages to attach the rear triangle to the rear shock for a progressive spring rate. Other implementations directly attach the rear triangle to the rear shock for a more linear rate.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    182
    I have one question:

    Did not Cannondale say one year ago that they aren't going to make more FR bikes? What is the Claymore then? A hardcore All Mountain bike?

  60. #60
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Epic-o
    I have one question:

    Did not Cannondale say one year ago that they aren't going to make more FR bikes? What is the Claymore then? A hardcore All Mountain bike?
    They just dropped the Perp and Judge, no official word about freeride and downhill bikes, they never said they would never make some again. I think it's the internet mafia who assumed they would not make any bikes for those markets again, and too often, we take whoever's word on an internet forum as an official thing...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: az1jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoyNY
    I wonder if all the Fisher people will spend two years bemoaning the fact in the same way the MUSA people do here.
    Possibly. Then, I wonder if the Trek/Gary Fisher people will later reintroduce an old and discontinued GF in an attempt to win back lost and loyal GF "bemoaners" the same way that Cannondale is doing here.

    jeff

  62. #62
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    271
    We are going to see a lot of stupid and confused 180mm bikes next year with that Fox Float release. Bikes with triple chainrings and XC length stems weighing 35lbs. I mean who on earth needs a 180mm trail bike? I remain to be convinced that anything more than a Rize is necessary unless you live in proper colorado / alps style mountains. I should know, having put $5k into a 160mm 'all mountain' bike that I never ride. My 130mm Rize gets taken out about 10 times to each 1 time I take out the all mountain bike. And it goes faster except on the really rocky DHs

    Give me a 140mm lefty, cane creek ohlins rear air shock, adjustable seatpost and I'll be happy

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by ASI CA
    I will not disagree that the Rize/RZ ( and others like it) have a similar number of pivots.

    I just do not buy the Cannondale press that says the Rize/RZ line is a true single pivot.

    The Rize has 4 pivot locations (not including shock ends).

    The Rush/Prophet have 1 pivot location (not including shock ends) and of course the Scapel has zero pivots.

    The bikes in this thread appear to have 4 pivot locations (not including shock ends).
    you can disagree all you want but the Rize / RZ has a single pivot AXLE PATH...and thats what makes it a single pivot...FYI

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Epic-o
    I have one question:

    Did not Cannondale say one year ago that they aren't going to make more FR bikes? What is the Claymore then? A hardcore All Mountain bike?
    Just because a bike has 180mm travel does not make it automatically a FR bike...this and the new Scott Genius LT will be pushing the 'one bike' thing even that much further...great time to be a biker!

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    171
    Obviously there are there are different definitions of single pivot. My understanding was the stricter definition on Wikipedia. Seems a looser definition applies now.

  66. #66
    Ridin' dirty!
    Reputation: cdalemaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,948
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    Obviously there are there are different definitions of single pivot. My understanding was the stricter definition on Wikipedia. Seems a looser definition applies now.
    No, Wikipedia is spot on, I guess it's more about how you comprehend what you read.....
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
    Custom Prophet and Custom Delta V

  67. #67
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    As if Wikipedia was a trustworthy source anyway...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    517
    I hope they make a Super Prophet- a 160 Lefty and a one sided swingarm like a BMW. The bike would be alumunum and a killer AM. A 9 speed wide ratio in-hub rear gear with a Hammerschmidt up front. Or a 12 speed front gearbox up front. And yes, considering it aint Handmade In USA, lay off on the profiteering of Asian production and pass the savings to consumers and give it to us for 2700 dollars CANADIAN as Dorel is CANADIAN!

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by XLNC
    Wouldn't get too excited, it's likely a rear shock remote lockout.

    However, with enough money I can still dream.......

    NOT a remote lockout,,something better than that.

  70. #70
    LA CHÈVRE
    Reputation: Dan Gerous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    9,429
    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoyNY
    NOT a remote lockout,,something better than that.
    Integrated beer on tap!

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    309
    Quote Originally Posted by az1jeff
    Possibly. Then, I wonder if the Trek/Gary Fisher people will later reintroduce an old and discontinued GF in an attempt to win back lost and loyal GF "bemoaners" the same way that Cannondale is doing here.

    jeff
    Cannondale is quite happy with the number of old and new riders that it has , and it keeps getting more and more.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    331
    Considering that Peter Denk designed the Scott Genius adjustable travel bike and now hes the man at Cannondale, I sure the Jekyll and the Claymore's rear shock is adjustable too. Both Scotts and the Cannondales use pull shocks just in different positions. I would love to do a back to back ride on say the Jekyll and the Genius to see if there much of a difference. I do like the fact that the shock on the Cannondales seem to be made by Fox

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: az1jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    604

    Happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoyNY
    Cannondale is quite happy with the number of old and new riders that it has , and it keeps getting more and more.
    So happy they un-mothballed an instantly recognizable old model like the Jekyll. Of course this is a marketing ploy to win back MIUSA customers that are looong gone.

    I for one bought my last Cannondale when they announced the outsourcing of manufacturing. No marketing gimmick/name-game will change that.

    Jeff

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nathanbal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,441
    meanwhile we get to ride the best bikes in the industry whilst you get to ride what... a trek? you need to get over the MIUSA cr@p... there where 10 pages of rambling when it was first announced. Move on.

    on the original website that had the spy shots it mentioned that the new Jekyll was going to have some form of adjustable geometry / travel front and rear.

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation: az1jeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    604

    Read.

    Quote Originally Posted by nathanbal
    Move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by BadBoyNY
    Interesting about GF, I wonder if all the Fisher people will spend two years bemoaning the fact in the same way the MUSA people do here.
    Move on?? I had no problem with letting this thread stay on track, but BBNY didn't. Maybe you should read before you spout your nonsense. Tell BBNY to move on and get over it. He restarted this with the above comment that is quite similiar to yours I might add. I simply responded to him restoking old crap. Trek? Pfft.

  76. #76
    gmk
    gmk is offline
    angels get bald too
    Reputation: gmk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by Junior Varsity
    It's funny how people in this thread have formed opinions about these bikes already when there may be 2 of us who actually know how they work and have ridden them. Just wait until the 22nd, have an open mind, and base your opinion on some real info not some cell phone pics.
    thanks

    really funny thread ...

    "Show your bike some love and it will show the love back."
    Eric, niner bikes

    the most important vehicle is a 29er bicycle

  77. #77
    gmk
    gmk is offline
    angels get bald too
    Reputation: gmk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    412
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    Don't want to beat a dead horse but this was driving me crazy. I found this on Wikipedia:

    The Single pivot is the simplest type of rear suspension. It simply consists of a pivot near the bottom bracket and a single swingarm to the rear axle. The rear axle will always rotate in a part-circle around the pivot point. Some implementations use linkages to attach the rear triangle to the rear shock for a progressive spring rate. Other implementations directly attach the rear triangle to the rear shock for a more linear rate.

    ?
    W**T T** F**K do you wanna say ?
    Last edited by gmk; 06-19-2010 at 05:15 AM.

    "Show your bike some love and it will show the love back."
    Eric, niner bikes

    the most important vehicle is a 29er bicycle

  78. #78
    Sweater
    Reputation: Buzzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,911
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglecat
    If the other "pivot points" are not pivots, then what are they? To call a bike single pivot when there really are more pivots is misleading. As far as I am concerned my Rush is a true single pivot design, but then I am not an engineer.
    If thats your logic then your headset is a pivot and so are each of the wheels. Neither have an effect on the path of travel for your rear suspension, the same is true with the other "pivot points" on the bike. Doesn't your Rush pivot where the seatstays connect? Wouldn't that also exclude it from true single pivot classification?
    To answer your original question, I suppose you could call them connecting points or something like that.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    348
    Any speculation around a full suspension 29er coming out of the release yet?
    Free Wheel Coffee...A Coffee of Free Will
    www.Freewheelcoffee.com

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    325
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalcuz
    Any speculation around a full suspension 29er coming out of the release yet?

    Nah...full suss 29er's are for gaylords that ride Vin Diesels...oh wait.

  81. #81
    Im a Cowboy
    Reputation: CrustyOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    790
    Quote Originally Posted by Junior Varsity
    It's funny how people in this thread have formed opinions about these bikes already when there may be 2 of us who actually know how they work and have ridden them. Just wait until the 22nd, have an open mind, and base your opinion on some real info not some cell phone pics.

    Oh, get over yourself, a picture or 2 is all anyone needs to work out how the suspension "works" its just a collection of levers and pivots (I dont think cannondale has access to super natural physics or anything)
    the only hidden stuff is in the shock and i very much doubt its full magic either
    DON'T TELL ME I'M STILL ON THAT FECKIN' ISLAND! ....

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    26
    Hey i kinda got the low down today from a Cannondale dealer. The new design is the same guy that designed the bikes for Scott like the ransom and genius, the rear shocks are better and the design has been tweaked a bit. Apparently the guys at scott didn't pay the guy who designed the genius ransom so well and he took hes design to cannondale or the highest bidder from what i have herd. IM not a Cannondale lover or hater i did have a prophet mx and it blew my mind how well it jumped, railed corners and road the rough stuff we have on the north shore. But on the down side the bike shop i worked at in Toronto Ontario 97-99 sold cannondales and man did they break back then, we had a box with at least 9 rear triangles at one point off super V's . But after riding a ransom for a few months and going for a pedal on the new genius LT i can't wait to get a jekyll with the better rear shock and suspension tweaks plus i think its the best looking c-dale ever oh and thank god it does come with a lefty

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.