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  1. #1
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    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated

    Well, I've done this twice now - with much the same experience - so I thought I would share. I don't know how to get the pics inline with the text, so I apologize in advance for making you scroll bakNforth.

    The basics: I own 2 Lefty Max's; a 130 TPC(converted to 1 1/8) (Pic1/2 - oops, no rebound damper asm shown) and a 140 carbon SPV(converted to 1 1/8 and 29er) (Pic3/4). Both of them have blown the rebound shaft seal at the top of the lower and started leaking oil out the boot. Both had a simple ORing, but now have a Quad seal (Pic5).

    To replace the rebound shaft seal, you follow the owners manual instructions to 1) take out the spring and 2) change the oil. Taking out the spring exposes the rebound shaft & seal, and changing the oil removes the compression damper, gets the oil out of the way, and lets you remove the rebound damper assembly to get it out of the way. All you need now is a 19mm socket, an 8" extension and a ratchet to remove the rebound shaft seal cap. Its the nut/washer looking bit between the bearing strips and the lower clamp in Pic 3. You will need a dental pick or something to hook the old seal out of the inside groove. Make sure the holder is clean, wet the new seal with oil and slip it into the groove - making sure its neatly in place with no rumples.
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Part II

    So you might ask: why did you pull your telescopes apart when you don't need to do that to fix the rebound shaft seal?


    Well..... the seal leaks oil all thru the bearings and washes out the grease - so you need to clean it out as much as possible. And as you are doing this, you may notice that you should reset your bearings because one or more is not aligned with the others - as you cycle the telescope backNforth, you will notice that the bearings will leave a little lube line where they stop, and its easy to tell if they are aligned.

    Now, resetting bearing migration is easy - and covered in other threads as well as the owners manual. BUT! At this point, you have removed the rebound shaft seal holder - which apparently acts as the upper retainer of the bearing strips. With both Leftys my attempts at resetting while apart have resulted in pulling the telescope apart. And I note that in both cases I was checking alignment after each whack! And had not got it before sproing!

    OTOH, since I now had the beast apart, cleanup and regrease was easy. And now I know how to reassemble the telescope to boot

    To properly disassemble the telescope, you unscrew the large nut at the bottom of the upper (alloy) or pop out the wire internal snapring (carbon), remove the polyethylene bushing to expose the upper race retainer, unclip the upper races (T shaped) from the retainer by pushing the race to the inside while pulling on the retainer (hard to get it started, but it gets easier) and remove the retainer ring (these 3 parts are in the upper left of Pic3) Now the telescope can just slide apart - but you should be ready to catch parts and make sure you know where they were so you can get them back there - not critical but best practice.

    Now you clean everything, lightly regrease, and put all the parts onto the lower as shown in the pic. Except that you can't see all the parts (retainer/bushing/nut or snapring) that have to be on the lower before you start with races/bearing. And on the Carbon, you better pull the boot and air cleaner onto the upper before you put things together too!

    Lower races in place (wanting to bow out in the middle) and fully seated at the bottom, bearing strips halfway on (mid strip at top of lower) and upper races with the "T" two or three bearings down from the top and arcing out away from the assembly (which will put the middle bowing out from the inside of the upper). You may notice the "special tool" - which is actually two plastic caps fattened up with electrical tape. This makes life much easier for you, but don't get it any larger than the flat-to-flat dimension of the lower - it can pinch the bearing strip if you do. Once you have it together the tool will fall out the end easily.

    Then hold the lower/etc with one hand and pick up the upper in the other. "Clock" them correctly ( look at clamps vs axle) and slowly lower the parts together, lightly twisting them backNforth to make sure things are lining up. Keep an eye on the position of the upper races and the bearing strips to make sure they stay aligned. If something slips, back off and realign.

    When you're done, you may notice that now the upper races stick out too far. This is why you put the upper races together not in the middle of the bearing strips, and it makes it easier to get the T's into the retainer clip. You will have to "reset" the races/bearings a bit to get the clip seated, so if you think its easier to clip the races in down in their hole put things together centered.

    With the Alloy, you can use the big nut to push things into alignment as long as you are close enough to get threads started. Easy-squeezy. With the Carbon, you have to move the snapring onto the axle collar, make a sleeve (basically just like the bushing except slit so you can take it off later) to push everything down past the snapring groove and then just like bearing reset - except in reverse: whack it together instead of apart.

    Now reassemble the rebound damper shaft& seal, then hod it upside down and filler up (not to the top!) with oil, insert the compression damper -making sure that it is pushing the least little bit of oil out as it seats to make sure there is no air (holding a rag around the end will catch this).

    Zip the boot down, reinstall the spring, and put'er back on the bike. Don't forget to reset the damper dials
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  3. #3
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    I'm hoping I won't need to do this for a while, but is that quad seal a Cannondale part they are now using, or aftermarket? If Cannondale, when did they go from the O-ring to the Quad Ring?

  4. #4
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    I believe the quad seal is Cdale, and they went to it in the last year or ...two? Someone should know for sure..
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    Comments

    The quad seal is standard from CDale - but you have to buy the seal kit, which has everything in it., including the closed cell foam sheet that allows for volume change w/o air inside the damper on the TPC and FFD. One kit fits all 140, I think there is another for all 130.


    I hope you all get enjoy the writeup, I can tell I shoulda taken more pics - but with two greasy hands busy the camera stays put.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  6. #6
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    so whats the point of the quad seal? and which leftys have that?

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    Quad good

    The original Oring makes a simple line of contact with the housing on one side and the rebound shaft on the other. When you take a big hit and push the rebound shaft way down into the oil - you effectively pressurize the oil chamber (the foam sheet acts as a spring). On both my Leftys it took about a year to toast the Oring and start blowing oil thru the bearings onto the front brake/etc.

    The quad seal is nearly square and fills the groove almost fully - as opposed to the round ring in the square groove. The quad seal has at least twice as much area to hold pressure as the Oring, and should last at least twice as long.

    I thought the quadseal came in with the 140 - but apparently not since my 140 had an Oring. Definitely at least a year now.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  8. #8
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    Owners Manual?

    Great information! Do you have an electronic source for the owners manual? I did not receive detailed instructions with my fork.I have to replace my seal... If I understand you right, I remove the upper spring (this I've done before) and remove the lower bladder assembly (this too) and dump out the oil, remove the damper assembly (pull out?) With a 19mm socket and 8" extension I unscrew the nut from the bottom assembly and pull the unit apart. The o' ring is in a grove is located in the upper part of the assembly(??)... Remove it and replace with upgraded quad seal.

    It appears your picture (carbon lefty) is showing the approximate actual location of parts in an disassembled view, right??
    Last edited by MarkHL; 08-25-2006 at 08:09 PM.

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    Good Questions!

    Some answers:
    First off, the electronic source for most of this is at cannondale.com, specifically on the tech page for Leftys:

    http://www.cannondale.com/tech_cente.../en_lefty.html

    2005 Lefty Max 140 Owner's Manual Supplement - this is the full 140 Max Manual
    http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_f...140_EN_web.pdf

    2002 Headshok Lefty Max & Jake Owner's Manual - the 130 Max Manual
    http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_f...er/0114864.pdf

    2004 Headshok Lefty Max & Jake Seal Kit Tech Doc - this is the one in Pic2
    http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_f..._Kit_QC685.pdf

    I have a few more, like "how to mount the Lefty speedo adapter" and a parts breakdown of the hub. I think they are still up there, but in other locations. Look at all the Lefty pages, its worth the time.

    In the CarbonLefty Apart (Pic3) the parts actually are mostly where they belong (wow - did I actually plan that? Cool) except for the clip/bushing/race retainer which should be near the lower end of the upper.

    The seal housing: When you pull out your spring and look inside - you are looking at it. It screws into the top of the lower, and the bottom of the spring sits on top of it. The rebound shaft can be pushed out from the top and will come out the bottom of the lower. You need the extension to reach down inside the upper. I think you said this, but...

    In Pic3, the seal housing is between the bearing strips and the lower clamp - and yes, the seal is in a groove on the inside. When you look at the Max/Jake seal kit doc (116071.pdf) shown in Pic2 - you can see a cutaway - quad seal would go where item#2 Oring is pointed out. And actually, the second page of the doc talks about this - look at the upper right diagram "location of ORing inside.."

    And Hey! Here's a pic of a complete 140 seal kit. KF225 is the part number. IIRC, about $5 from my LBS - ordered from CDale.
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  10. #10
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    Quad Seal Replacement complete

    I did the quad seal upgrade tonight, it took about an hour.
    1) I had to bolt the fork back on the bike to break the nut assembly loose, I did not want to risk crushing the fork tube, damaging threads, or screwing up the spindle by using a vice. The lefty fork (non-carbon) is easily removed and reinstalled on the bike using three mounting screws
    2) Bleeding the lower chamber after refilling it is essential... inflate the bladder until it takes shape, then slowly insert the assembly and let the oil overflow, be careful not to let any air back into the assembly
    3) Getting the o'ring out is a bit tricky, make sure you don't use a tool that will scratch the seating surface, I used a plastic dental pick, still it took a few minutes. Rather easy to put the new seal back in... After gettting the fork reassembled, if felt like new... Lot's of adjustable rebound, no knocking sound when I lifed the front end and repeatedly dropped the front wheel on the floor from several inches up. I took it out for about a 90 minute ride and it worked really well. Quiet with no top out sound, or clunking and... no hydraulic oil on the lower assembly under the boot after I finished.
    Final thoughts, is it's pretty cool to have a fork that can be maintained (i.e., disassembled and reassembled) by the owner with normal tools.

  11. #11
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    YOU: Very helpful...CANNONDALE: Not

    Hi, I followed your instructions to reinstall the bearing races, and I destroyed the set of bearings, but that was my fault (pilot err). So I purchased new set races from LBS and proceeded to start all over. I found that a large o-ring (1.50 ID x .125 W) holds the bearings races better than a rubber band. The o-ring will “index” onto the ridges on the bearing races, and you can more precisely get the bearings centered and aligned. I used a small diameter piece of foam insulation instead of the plastic caps that you used for the outer races. After I pushed everything together, one of the races was sticking out farther that the others. So, what I did was to stack two old credit cards together to protect the lower raceway, and I forced the outer race into alignment to the others by tapping with a hammer and a screwdriver. It sound drastic, but after trying to get all of them to align closely the first time, which lead me to destroy my bearings, it worked. I tried to use the large retaining nut to push the outer race back into place, but that did not work. So, I used the tap hammer method, and tapped the outer races back where they needed to be. I used the Lefty manual to check the overall fork length, and it was defiantly longer than when I started, but within the dimensions shown; well now my fork boot seems to be too short. So what could I have done wrong? The fork seems to work fine.

    I e-mailed Cannondale to find out if they had any instructions for a lefty rebuild and bearing reassemble, and their reply:

    looked into this for you and unfortunately at this time we do not have a manual and/or detailed instructions on replacing the O-ring seals on the Lefty Max 140 cartridges. It is advisable just to get another cartridge, versus the time put into replacing the seals. Heather Egolf

    My Reply:
    Heather, do you know cannondale products? The lefty 140 Max HAS NO CARTRIDGE. The shock's parts are assembled into the body of the shock. So would you want me to go to my bike shop and buy a new Lefty 140Max shock/fork assembly (~$1100+) just because of a lousy leaking o-ring? Please!

    Her Reply:
    Whoops, I meant the damper assemblies, which I may still refer to as a cartridge. You can replace the damper assembly, no need to replace the entire fork. Now, if you mean the quad seal, it can be replaced. You can contact our Tech Support at 1-800-BIKE-USA for further assistance. Heather Egolf

    WHAT AN EFFIN NUCKLEHEAD…..

    Thanks for your instructions, Very helpful!

    PS: I had a Cannondale Fatty fork and rebuilt that one several times. It was different; I used an old inner tube as a bearing guide. It was tied off each end, and when inflated, it pushed the bearings onto the walls of the fork body.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansaldi
    I e-mailed Cannondale to find out if they had any instructions for a lefty rebuild and bearing reassemble, and their reply:

    looked into this for you and unfortunately at this time we do not have a manual and/or detailed instructions on replacing the O-ring seals on the Lefty Max 140 cartridges. It is advisable just to get another cartridge, versus the time put into replacing the seals. Heather Egolf

    I believe this is what I was getting at a few weeks back, with my post about the "new" Cannondale. Exactly.

    Wadester, excellent, now I don't have to do it, but I ay anyway, just cause some folks don't like having to search= One thing, the bearing/race reassembly is made alot easier if the outer races are installed in the upper slider. Hold them in place with an inner tube, cut and tied at both ends, insert, and inflate.Apologies to Sanfaldi, you mentioned this too, but in reference to a headshock, this will in fact work for any Cannondale system, just needs to be longer for Leftys!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I believe this is what I was getting at a few weeks back, with my post about the "new" Cannondale. Exactly.

    Wadester, excellent, now I don't have to do it, but I ay anyway, just cause some folks don't like having to search= One thing, the bearing/race reassembly is made alot easier if the outer races are installed in the upper slider. Hold them in place with an inner tube, cut and tied at both ends, insert, and inflate.Apologies to Sanfaldi, you mentioned this too, but in reference to a headshock, this will in fact work for any Cannondale system, just needs to be longer for Leftys!
    Thanks Craig. I will look forward to seeing your writeup of this! I can see that the races-in-upper-with-innertube would work well. I know that once you get the bearings started in between the races everything is held tight anyways.

    Does the innertube method help prevent bearing pinch? My method seems to be very sensitive to this - requiring a finessed "wiggle" as you mate the assemblies.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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    Checklist

    Hi - great well written info.

    Could one of you guys who has done it post a checklist of all the things you need to make the quad seal upgrade.

    Blown though mine in the first season (2005 lefty max tpc bought in 2006)

    i.e. 22mm socket, 19mm socket, Oring kit KF225 etc etc - and also what oil/grease.

    I guess mine could be a warranty job (bikes 6 months old) but I want to have tools/oils etc to do it myself as need.

    Also would it make sense to do change the new 4 lip seal yearly to prevent getting oil everywhere?

    I know all the info is their, perhaps I am being lazy but I guess a check list would also help to make it clear for first timers like me.

    Thanks
    Last edited by dusttrails; 09-24-2006 at 10:57 AM.

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    List?

    Quote Originally Posted by dusttrails
    Hi - great well written info.

    Could one of you guys who has done it post a checklist of all the things you need to make the quad seal upgrade.

    Blown though mine in the first season (2005 lefty max tpc bought in 2006)

    i.e. 22mm socket, 19mm socket, Oring kit KF225 etc etc - and also what oil/grease.

    I guess mine could be a warranty job (bikes 6 months old) but I want to have tools/oils etc to do it myself as need.

    Also would it make sense to do change the new 4 lip seal yearly to prevent getting oil everywhere?

    I know all the info is their, perhaps I am being lazy but I guess a check list would also help to make it clear for first timers like me.

    Thanks
    First off, I bet that you will find an ORing, not the quad. I'd figured they went quad with the 140, but mine had the O - which blew. I'm keeping a spare seal kit on hand, but not planning on regular replacement.

    Tools: Go download the manual - it gives most of this (except the seal retainer cap)
    5mm allen to undo clamps/brakes/wheel
    ExtBB tool to take off the top cap
    19mm & 9mm openend wrenches to take off the top assembly and get the spring out
    22mm (TPC/FFD) or 24mm (SPV) to take out comp damper
    19mm socket + 8"extension/ratchet to unscrew cap
    Oil: Golden Spectro cartridge fork fluid 85/150 (got mine thru BTI/LBS)
    Grease: Royal Purple Ultra Performance Grease/ I use FinishLine teflon fortified grease
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  16. #16
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    As an info on quad seal.

    The Super Fatty that came with my 1FG has an integrated air chamber wich are no longer removable,and are bigger in diameter. It' got a quad seal in it. Works fine so far.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Does the innertube method help prevent bearing pinch? My method seems to be very sensitive to this - requiring a finessed "wiggle" as you mate the assemblies.

    It does not really help prevent it, it just allows for an easier overall re-assembly. I can't recall if you mentioned this, but regardless of methodology, you want 11 bearings above, and 11 below the inner steerer. The pinch is best prevented through very careful wiggling upon reinstalling.
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    Nice one - thanks very much

    Have ordered the Oring kit last week - will have to see which one I get

    thanks again

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    Thanks for a great thread. In the lefty supplement manual I was looking at the parts available and there are a number of inner race thicknesses. How would one go about selecting the proper thickness for the inner race?

    Thanks,
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimpad
    How would one go about selecting the proper thickness for the inner race?
    First of all, all the outer races will be the same thickness, but those thicknesses vary. The inners can be all diiferent from the neighbors, so take them one at a time, leaving the others in place. Use a micrometer that does English (non metric). .021, .022, .023, etc.
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    I think I understand. Will all the inner race thicknesses be the same within the same fork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimpad
    I think I understand. Will all the inner race thicknesses be the same within the same fork?

    No, the outers will be the same thickness, but depending on the fork, those may be of a few different thicknesses. The inners in a given fork, may all be different from one another. Most frequently only one or two will be different though. Gotta mic them all though, to be sure.
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    Selection criteria?

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    No, the outers will be the same thickness, but depending on the fork, those may be of a few different thicknesses. The inners in a given fork, may all be different from one another. Most frequently only one or two will be different though. Gotta mic them all though, to be sure.
    OK, so the outers are all identical on a unit - but do come in different sizes. So the upper/outers will be symmetrical, and the thickness used will be based on the ID of the upper. Any "magic" distance race-race inside?

    The inners are all different, or matched across? Same Q?: Any "magic" distance race-race outside?
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    OK, so the outers are all identical on a unit - but do come in different sizes. So the upper/outers will be symmetrical, and the thickness used will be based on the ID of the upper. Any "magic" distance race-race inside?

    The inners are all different, or matched across? Same Q?: Any "magic" distance race-race outside?

    You would think so, but the answer is more nebulous. This difference in inner race thickness comes from a real world issue, over which there is little control. The outers are made in a fashion that allows there to be a high level of consistency. The inner steerer experiences changes in thickness due to machining tools getting out of tolerance over the course of weeks of production. By using variable thicknesses it allows them to maintain proper bearing preload, much less exspensively than re calibrating tooling every week or two. The rule for bearing preload is, extend the fork all the way up, and put a weight on the top of it. The steerer must drop with between 2 to 4 pounds on it, More than 4 lbs? Races are too thick, less than 2 lbs, races are too thin. Then, mic across the 2 inner axis's, take the thinner of the 2, measure their races, and replace the thinner of the two, with the next thicker. And so on, and so on. Have fun!
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    OK, if it's not already evident by my questions... I've disassembled my fork without noting race positions. So, if the races are selected to provide proper preload (and not concentricity) would it be reasonable to say the inner races will either all be the same or they should be paired ie. if not all the same thickness will two be the same and the other two the same? If so, it seems I should assemble the telescope such that a large inner race will be opposite a small inner race and the same for the other two?

    Thanks for the help.


    You would think I wasn't even reading your responses, well after rereading I've got it now. Ignore this one.

    Thanks again,
    Jim
    Last edited by jimpad; 10-21-2006 at 05:56 PM.

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    so, if I understand it right, there's no logical explanation of where to place each of the inner races? Just measure them, and start the procedure explained above?
    Another question; I'm trying to clean and rebuild my old fatty ultra, but the air valve has stuck in tho bottom of the fork. Is it okay to hit it as hard as I can? Or could be there something else?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by derbence
    so, if I understand it right, there's no logical explanation of where to place each of the inner races? Just measure them, and start the procedure explained above?
    Another question; I'm trying to clean and rebuild my old fatty ultra, but the air valve has stuck in tho bottom of the fork. Is it okay to hit it as hard as I can? Or could be there something else?

    I guess to look at it from the backside, you want as even a square as possible. Keep flipping their position and re mic'ing till it's as square on both axis's as possible.

    As for your stuck air sleeve, it's most likely corroded into place, you can hit it, but be nice to it, use a punch that will fit next to the valve, so you don't damage the valve. Try some penetrating lube for a bit, from the bottom and the top, before commencing to Conan it=
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    Thank you, I guess I got the point. I wasn't sure if the different thicknesses of the races are not because of the different vectors of strength when the fork hits a bump. But it sounds stupid now I've read all your posts...

    The strange thing is, that after almost a year of searching I've bought a Cannondale Shop Manual on eBay. And though it's from 1997 -so pretty outdated- a lot of forks and cartridges are in it. But not a single line about the races.

    Now I go and hit the valve to protons and electrons...

  29. #29
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    Great post wadester. I ride a lefty carbon DLR, is that a completely different animal from the lefty max, or largely the same? Just wondering if I should finally get round to taking it apart to see whats what.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBone
    Great post wadester. I ride a lefty carbon DLR, is that a completely different animal from the lefty max, or largely the same? Just wondering if I should finally get round to taking it apart to see whats what.
    Conceptually the same, but the outer steerers lower collar is very different in terms of removal. It consists of a round stock, steel spring clip, about 3/8" down inside the lower end of the outer tube. Both ends are crimped out a bit, you can catch them with a small screwdriver, and work them up and out of their groove. It's a PITA till you get the hang of it. Then there's a white Delrin sleeve that needs to be removed, try catching it with a dentists pick, and pulling it op and out. Once that's done, it will disassemble in much the same way as an Alloy version. Best done with a beer in hand for the first time=
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    Good job! More experiences with the rebuild

    Thanks for the great work, this tread was crucial to me when downgrading from SPV to TPC on a alloy max 140. Also thanks to MendonCycleSmith for helping me with the parts and advice. I have a few comments where I had some problems.

    Rebound dissasembly:
    The first trouble was disassembling the rebound, I had to get a deep socket for it (19 mm) as the shaft stood up to high for my standard socket. It also was very tight unscrewing, and my strong brother cranked while I held the axle! Came loose at last, and seemed fine though.

    Races and bearings:
    The reassembly of the fork went well after I broke a bearing grid on the third attempt. I ended up using a disassembled Blackburn Fatty pump as a support for the bearings. Funny enough, the pump fitted the threads in the top of the inner! Perfect! I also used a 28 inch tube in the outer to hold the outer races, taped together double so I didn't need to discard it. Happy with that, because I tried at least 10 times to get it right!

    It cycled quite slowly when assembled, maybe because of the grease a bit to thick (Weldtite Bike grease with Teflon). Considered Finish Line with teflon, and PrepM, but went with the first. All the 8 races had the same thickness, 0,5 mm, and it needs more than 3,5 pounds of pressure to compress. Anyone have a comment on the grease?

    When fastening the big nut at the bottom at the outer, the races was out a few mm, and I had to cycle the fork a few times and then turn the nut a bit. Repeated until tight. Made some strange sounds, but worked ok. Then a bit of bearing reset, and on to the damping assembly.

    The damper assembly:
    The fork took quite a lot of oil, and the upside-down cycling trick worked very well - it sucked in a lot of oil. I put in too much of course, and when putting in the compression the oil almost hit the roof from the bleed hole! Good my wife didnt see it... I worked in the living room, the basement is so boring. The Motul 2,5w/5w fork oil gives both fast and slow rebound, quite perfect then.

    I had a small issue when getting hold of the rebound assembly again when fitting the spring, as I pushed it down in the fork by accident. Worked it out, but I could have to disassemble the compression and pushing it from the bottom. Would be a bit scared of the rebound shims if so.

    Other issues:
    Also, the pushrod had a dent, and a litte corrotion. I flattened it out, and it worked fine. Not sure why that has happened, maybe riding with to much migration over time?
    And of course, I put on the air filter upside down. I havent cared to turn it around as it mess up the fork with oil.

    I used a few hours on the races/bearings, but quite fun to do as a total. Hopefully it has stopped raining tomorrow, and I can try the "new" fork on some rough singletrack!

    -e

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    hi,
    anybody have any idea what makes my fatty70 move when locked out?
    If I turn the dial and push the fork it moves down about 1 inch, then stops. When lockout released, it makes a little noise like taking a breath and moves up by that inch.
    I filled the cartridge with new oil, there's no air in it. what is it???

    thanks, bence

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by derbence
    hi,
    anybody have any idea what makes my fatty70 move when locked out?
    If I turn the dial and push the fork it moves down about 1 inch, then stops. When lockout released, it makes a little noise like taking a breath and moves up by that inch.
    I filled the cartridge with new oil, there's no air in it. what is it???

    thanks, bence
    Sounds like air to me. Did you fully bleed it as is needed? Also, when it there, did you replace the seals? The one on the piston creates the lock seal, without it being nice and fresh, oil can weep past it.
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  34. #34
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    Thx waderster for the post - excellent!

    Question: a friend bought a new inner leg (the part with the axle). If I see this now I need new inner leg races with proper thickness. So how do I find out how thick races do I need? How do I order these without knowing the thickness?

    The inner leg needed to be exchanged because the brake caliper mount broke , or rather was worn out by the screw.

    cheers
    www.swotch.com - Tenerife Island Trail Web

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotkom
    So how do I find out how thick races do I need? How do I order these without knowing the thickness?
    Welcome to hell. There's no formula, it's trial and error, and it may vary on each one, though generally they are within a thousandth of each-other, and usually are within a range of .021 - .025. Best bet is to obtain at least three or four of each of those, and swap them out till you get a nice bearing preload. Best of luck, let me know if you need additional help
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    The lefty manual on c'dales website (117105.pdf) shows everything except on how to remove the rebound shaft seal housing and seal. The manual also has some typos and it also miss-identifies some of the illustrations. If you have a SPV type damper Lefty, I have found that all you need is the quad ring seal (Quattro seal) because most all of the other seals will be in good condition and are static (no movement); the material is called Buna-N. If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr. The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-204 (1/8” thick X 3/8” Inner Diameter X 5/8” Outer Diameter). You’ll also notice that the o-rings do not exactly match the listed numbers. So when you measure to match them you just need to be close. (ie .109 x .365 x .619 = 1/8 x 3/8 x 5/8). The bike shop had me waiting for a month because c’dale had problems getting the foam strip for the FFC and TPC dampers. I hope this helps all of you.

  37. #37
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    The lefty manual on c'dales website (117105.pdf) shows everything except on how to remove the rebound shaft seal housing and seal. The manual also has some typos and it also miss-identifies some of the illustrations. If you have a SPV type damper Lefty, I have found that all you need is the quad ring seal (Quattro seal) because most all of the other seals will be in good condition and are static (no movement); the material is called Buna-N. If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr. The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-204 (1/8” thick X 3/8” Inner Diameter X 5/8” Outer Diameter). You’ll also notice that the o-rings do not exactly match the listed numbers. So when you measure to match them you just need to be close. (ie .109 x .365 x .619 = 1/8 x 3/8 x 5/8). The bike shop had me waiting for a month because c’dale had problems getting the foam strip for the FFC and TPC dampers. I hope this helps all of you.

  38. #38
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    I also found that when you use a 9mm wrench to remove the spring retainer assembly from the main shaft damper rod I slightly deformed the wrenching flat; I raised a burr. The last time I rebuilt the shock I noticed the burr and filed it smooth. My local bike shop told me to use Teflon seal tape to cover the wrenching flat to aid and protect the reassembly of the shaft into the rebound shaft seal housing.

    FYI- another bike shop said that I could use an old inner tube to cover the main compression spring to suppress any rattling noises. WHAT A EFFIN MISTAKE!! Never do this, the rubber of the inner tube disintegrated into a slimly black gooey mess. It took me quite a while to remove the pieces and clean out the upper part of the shock.

  39. #39
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    New question here. how to open lefty fork?

    Hi lefty fork experts , how did you open up your lefty fork? What tools did you use?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by leadpack
    Hi lefty fork experts , how did you open up your lefty fork? What tools did you use?
    Uhm, a suggestion, you may just want to read this thread, perhaps... Or another idea, you could check the manual.

  41. #41

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    I've got a 2000 Lefty DLR that is basically new, but I want to make sure I have all the stuff I need for it if it breaks. I've go the bearings, seals,etc... but what I don't have is the exploded views and tech notes that I can see in the pics (background) of the first post.

    Can someone point me to a link or post that contains these?

    Thanks
    Mark

  42. #42
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    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  43. #43
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    5-week-old Lefty Speed Carbon SL ...

    ... not locking out completely, clunking also. Reset bearings, but fork bottoms out easily and perhaps that is causing premature migration? From what I can tell, sounds like there's not enough oil in the damper cartridge. I special ordered the fork, then a shop travel-reduced it 2 weeks later, so it didn't sit around long. Was locking out completely before reduction, however, I haven't seen any sign of oil leakage in the last three weeks.

    So, don't want to wait for Cannondale, and can't find a competent mechanic locally who is willing to rebuild it, therefore, want to do it myself.

    Questions: anyone have the service manual for this fork? It's not on Cannondale's website. If I could find one, I assume it will tell me what tools I will need: specific castle tool, spanner, seals, proper oil, etc. Will I need to completely disassemble to find out if I need to replace seals, and if not, I am also assuming I only need to partially disassemble to refill oil and bleed, and therefore not have to re-grease negative spring and other such stuff? Also, if anyone has any advice, i.e. what to expect, possible surprises, etc, that would be greatly appreciated!

    Fork feels wonderful otherwise, as stiff and plush (sounds like an oxymoron) as claimed. And freakin light.

    Edit: OK, there is a manual on there website (the DLR in the title threw me) but it doesn't explain the process to change the oil. Is it nominally different than the process for the others already explained here?
    Last edited by perioeci; 05-05-2008 at 03:16 PM.

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    i have reassembled my fork and when putting the pre-load spacers into the top of the spring i could almost slide them in without compressing the spring and once fully assembled the overall length was ok but the boot no longer covered the whole slider. Any clues as to what i have done wrong? i am a bit confused.

    cheers

  45. #45
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    If you have a shorter travel fork (110mm) you need to have more bearing rollers exposed before you insert the lower into the upper. If you have a 140~150mm travel fork you will need a new (longer) boot. All boots are the same now, you can count the pleats on a new bike in your local bike shop to determine if you have a shorter OEM boot; my lefty boot has 13 pleats. Please read all of the threads, they can help. There are some photo instructions attached you those threads, if you can't find them I can send you what I have; not the greatest, but they will give you some ideas.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    It does not really help prevent it, it just allows for an easier overall re-assembly. I can't recall if you mentioned this, but regardless of methodology, you want 11 bearings above, and 11 below the inner steerer. The pinch is best prevented through very careful wiggling upon reinstalling.
    Not to bump an old thread, but I found this out myself, wish I'd seen it earlier. I put 11 above and 11 below, slid the outer races in most of the way, then worked one outer race at a time wiggling it in to place. Used the big nut to finish them off. Worked great.

    Monte

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monte
    Not to bump an old thread, but I found this out myself, wish I'd seen it earlier. I put 11 above and 11 below, slid the outer races in most of the way, then worked one outer race at a time wiggling it in to place. Used the big nut to finish them off. Worked great.

    Monte
    This scares me, how, if I understand what you did, did the bit nut "finish them off"? You need the outer race retainer clip to be in place, and the outer races position is critical to proper placement. So, they need to be positioned prior to reassembly. Without that, you will likely damage the outer races, by tightening the big nut. This will scrape the crap out of your inner leg, etc etc etc. Unless I totally miss what your saying, this is why Cannondale has a tight lid on how to DIY these forks.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Unless I totally miss what your saying, this is why Cannondale has a tight lid on how to DIY these forks.
    Or not...if they wouldn't keep their lid as tight as they're doing, Monte would probably have done it the correct way. They're just bikeparts, and everything bike is pretty easy to work on. No PhD needed, but some instructions do make it a bit easier .

    Monte, like MCS says, all races need to be in their correct places before you mate the two fork halves. Maybe just to be sure open it up again and see if all is right. If you put the clip back on around the outer races I'm sure it is alright though.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    Or not...if they wouldn't keep their lid as tight as they're doing, Monte would probably have done it the correct way. They're just bikeparts, and everything bike is pretty easy to work on. No PhD needed, but some instructions do make it a bit easier .

    If you'd seen the number of forks I have, supposedly "fixed" by their owners, you might think differently. Folks often overestimate their skills, and make some really bad errors in judgement as to what's safe, and not. Not saying it's right or wrong, what Cannondale does, but I'd be leery, based on how many personal injury lawyers are making a comfortable living nowadays
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    If you'd seen the number of forks I have, supposedly "fixed" by their owners, you might think differently. Folks often overestimate their skills, and make some really bad errors in judgement as to what's safe, and not. Not saying it's right or wrong, what Cannondale does, but I'd be leery, based on how many personal injury lawyers are making a comfortable living nowadays
    True. Now also in the UK we're heading the way of the suing culture. Rediculous, can't stand people who don't know how to use their own brain anymore and who can't take the blame themselves for anything they do wrong. If you mess up, if you misjudge something, you pay the price. That's how I was brought up. Ok, rant over

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boozzz
    . If you mess up, if you misjudge something, you pay the price. That's how I was brought up. Ok, rant over
    Word.
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  52. #52
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    Boozzz wrote:
    Or not...if they wouldn't keep their lid as tight as they're doing, Monte would probably have done it the correct way. They're just bikeparts, and everything bike is pretty easy to work on. No PhD needed, but some instructions do make it a bit easier .

    How true. Like Fox, it took a while and several guys doing it themselves, for them to let loose on some of their fork's tech information too.

    Monte, like MCS says, all races need to be in their correct places before you mate the two fork halves. Maybe just to be sure open it up again and see if all is right. If you put the clip back on around the outer races I'm sure it is alright though.

    I wiggled the notches as close to the bottom of the upper as I could, put the retainer on, wrenched the big nut on. Did a reset (as far as I understand it), retorqued the big nut, reset, retorque, etc. I took it off and it looked fine.

    Monte

  53. #53
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    Seal Kit

    Last weekend I blew the main rebound seal on my Lefty Max 140 Aluminum - SPV.

    Cannondale is out of KF225 seal kits.

    So to replace the main seal, I can just order the AS568A-204 O-ring or Quad-seal mentioned in another post?

    I can only find these online in quantities far greater than I need. Is there anyone out there who bought a bunch and wants to get rid of a couple?

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    Sorry, no, I don’t have any of these seals. McMaster-Carr has a 100 bag of Buna-N quad rings for about $12.09. The better material is called "Viton" which is made to resist heat and oil. McMaster’s part number is 6540K175, pack of 10 for $10.15. If you decide to buy a pack of the”viton” type I’ll buy some off you. I hope this helps.

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    This thread is really great and really deserves being bumped up, thanks a lot wadester!

    Now I have one question. I've got the Carbon SPV Lefty Max, and I've got pretty much of it disassembled. The only problem is, I cant get that wire snapring that holds the telescope together out! It sits really hard and there isn't much space to get any tool in there, and I don't want to damage the bearing races or the carbon tube... any tips on how to get it out?

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ventle
    any tips on how to get it out?
    This, and the next step, are the undoing of an otherwise elegant, and simple system. Oh, how I miss the days of Max's and DLR's, you'd simply unscrew the cap, and the clip is right there, easily in sight and reach. Get ready to feel like a Pleistocene era fisherman.

    Spring clip. Several method options, all getting to the same end. A small flat screwdriver, various dental picks are good too. With the screwdriver, push/slide the clip till one of it's tab ends is in front of a race, the most wiggle room you're gonna get. Then get behind it, as the ends are bent inward slightly. Use whatever tool fits the bill. With downward pressure being constantly applied so as to stay under it as it move inward then up, pry it out. You may feel there's a better way, if you find it, let me know. I've never had so much as a dent, crack, crinkle or carbon fuzz up from this, but I, like you, hate the force required.

    Next come the outer race clip, down inside. First there's the Delrin bushing though. A wrap of electrical tape an inch or two below the bottom of the upper helps. Compress the fork, driving it onto the tape. This causes the bushing to stick, and stay, when you bring the telescope back up.

    Then, bring some beer, and go fishing. Dental picks are best here, and you need to push the outer race, inward, and hold it there, thankfully the picks stick well, if inserted as far as they'll go. By the time you get three in, (and it starts to look like G ramma knitting socks) you should be able to hook the last one, and pull it up, and out. Then the whole thing comes apart.

    This portion has made grown men cry, caused divorces, and much domestic violence against tools and work benches (or was that the beer?)

    Once completed, the rest, is cake. Happy fishing.
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  57. #57
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    Kf225

    >>>"the material is called Buna-N. If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr. The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-..."

    Based on measurements from a side by side comparison between the KF225 quad seal and the McMaster part, it looks like -110 (.362"x.103" as advertised) is the proper size.

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#90025k222/=1no3hx

  58. #58
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    This pdf has lots of helpful tech info on Leftys - illustrated parts breakdowns, parts kits, etc. Just scroll past the first 10 pages of Headshok stuff.
    shop.jumpsport.cz/Uploaded/file/4_HeadShok-Fork-pages.pdf

  59. #59
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    Superb thread guys!!

    My old Lefty DLR has just suffered the same fate, blown rebound seal. I just picked up a factory reconditioned Lefty ELR with the ELR bits replaced by the manual lockout hardware to fit so I can keep the bike running. Im going to have a go at rebuilding my DLR myself now though.

    The internals hopefully are not too dissimilar to the pictures further up the thread. (Im on my work PC at the mo and cant get on cannondales website to have a look at the pdf's.)

    Does anyone know if the seal kit what is mentioned here will be the same for my lefty?

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by billysan
    Superb thread guys!!
    It's a good one for sure

    Your fork requires a few different seals, so no.

    The internals of yours differ significantly in mechanical approach, required tools, and appearance. The telescope portion is conceptually the same, but requires some independent thinking and decent aptitude if you want to do it with a minimum of hassle.
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith

    Your fork requires a few different seals, so no.
    Cool, thanks. Will email cannondale to find out what I need in that case.

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    Best help

    Thanks for sharing your instructions, Lefty now re-greased and re-booted. I went to a bike show in London recently and all Cannondale could suggest was take to a shop or buy a new bike. The inner tube trick was also most usefull, happy riding everyone.

  63. #63
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    Hi thanks for a very interesting thread. I just bought a lefty DLR, year 2000 - the first, original one. I'm trying to get to the needle bearings to replace them with some new ones. I have released the outer races from the clip and the telescope does not seem to come apart. I guess that I have to unscrew the top with the castle tool (which I don't have) to release the telescope - is this correct ?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cykelmyg100
    Hi thanks for a very interesting thread. I just bought a lefty DLR, year 2000 - the first, original one. I'm trying to get to the needle bearings to replace them with some new ones. I have released the outer races from the clip and the telescope does not seem to come apart. I guess that I have to unscrew the top with the castle tool (which I don't have) to release the telescope - is this correct ?
    Depending on what you've done so far? The cartridge needs to be removed (take the air out first!!!!!!!!) Then the inner race clip needs to be removed, then the fork comes apart easily, but make sure you tape the inner races to the leg prior to disassembly, they may all be different thicknesses. The outers will all be the same as each other.
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    SORRY, very new to what's inside the lefty, I find my lefty speed' 09 series, very hard, although I liked it, anyway I could release the air or even better still, how much air I need, 187pound.
    1 X 9 Baybee.

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    hi to everyone, I'm new and I've some questions about lefty speed carbon DLR2 fork.
    One of the four inner races (object 2 in the image below) is lifted up a bit, I've done the reset procedure but it wont to return in place, what can I do? I've thought to disassemble the telescope, can somebody tell me how with some images (I haven't understood the procedure written in 2nd post)?

    Can I use a generic 5wt oil for the cartridge, the air piston and the telescope?

    thanks


  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    hi to everyone, I'm new and I've some questions about lefty speed carbon DLR2 fork.
    One of the four inner races (object 2 in the image below) is lifted up a bit, I've done the reset procedure but it wont to return in place, what can I do? I've thought to disassemble the telescope, can somebody tell me how with some images (I haven't understood the procedure written in 2nd post)?

    Can I use a generic 5wt oil for the cartridge, the air piston and the telescope?

    thanks

    Hi Lorenzo, no disrespect, (and pardon me if I misread your intentions) but if after reading all this, you think you should possibly use shock oil for your telescope, you'd better let a learned hand fix that for you....

    Should you choose to go forth, a full tear down will obviously solve it. But, removing the cartridge, and using a long punch (CAREFULLY) you may be able to settle it back down, assuming it';s only up a little bit, like a mm or less.
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    first of all, excuse me for my english, I try to explain me:
    I've made the question about the oil because It need to be changed. So I've read the "dlr2 instruction" in which is written to use tenacious oil (not sold in italy or EU) for the air piston and golden spectro oil (which is a 5wt oil) for the cartridge, so I'm asking if a generic 5wt oil does the same. I thought to use a teflon grease for bearings oring etc. It should be ok?

    now tha inner race trouble: you're right it is only up a little bit, it's a good idea to use a long punch

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    first of all, excuse me for my english, I try to explain me:
    I've made the question about the oil because It need to be changed. So I've read the "dlr2 instruction" in which is written to use tenacious oil (not sold in italy or EU) for the air piston and golden spectro oil (which is a 5wt oil) for the cartridge, so I'm asking if a generic 5wt oil does the same. I thought to use a teflon grease for bearings oring etc. It should be ok?

    now tha inner race trouble: you're right it is only up a little bit, it's a good idea to use a long punch
    No worries, I'm sure your English is far better than any attempt I'd make at foreign language

    Generic oil should be fine in the cartridge. I'd try to source a bottle of Phil's Tenacious though, it's kind of unique....

    As for the race/punch thing? Be very careful, if you slip, and whack the exposed threads inside the inner leg, you may not be able to get your cartridge back in.
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  70. #70
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    for race I would to full tear down the fork, but I don't understand how to put in place the outer race when reassembling

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    I'd try to source a bottle of Phil's Tenacious though, it's kind of unique....
    Every time I use Phil's Tenacious Oil I am struck by how much it resembles 90wt gear oil in texture and smell. OTOH, one bottle of Phil's lasts a looooooong time.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Every time I use Phil's Tenacious Oil I am struck by how much it resembles 90wt gear oil.
    Yeah, but is it that cool green color?
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  73. #73
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    houston we have a problem...one race is shorter than others, what can I do?


  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    houston we have a problem...one race is shorter than others, what can I do?

    You talking on the inners? I'm not seeing anything I'd worry about. Or am I missing something?
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  75. #75
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    yes the inner race, the first on top (of the image) is shorter than the others. when it's onto the telescope, there's a little gap not covered by the inner race. see the picture below (i'm sorry for the quality, there's a scratch caused from an its movement (I suppose)


  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    yes the inner race, the first on top (of the image) is shorter than the others. when it's onto the telescope, there's a little gap not covered by the inner race. see the picture below (i'm sorry for the quality, there's a scratch caused from an its movement (I suppose)

    Just bias it upwards, so it's level with the top of the inner leg. I don't see any issues arising out of it. I see a bit of variance fairly often.....
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  77. #77
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    you're right, I've called an official cannondale dealer who told me it isn't a problem, so I've finished the service and now my fork works greatly! thank you

  78. #78
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    Hey guys I have a lefty Carbon.
    During one of my races the fork is not locking out anymore , I thought it would be the air pressure or the rebound nob , But I guess is going to need more work than I thought.
    Has anyone encounter this problem before? I want to do it myself , but If I don't have to I don't want to tare the fork apart if its not necessary, since everything else works good.
    any help will be appreciated.
    Thanks.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by biyary
    Hey guys I have a lefty Carbon.
    During one of my races the fork is not locking out anymore , I thought it would be the air pressure or the rebound nob , But I guess is going to need more work than I thought.
    Has anyone encounter this problem before? I want to do it myself , but If I don't have to I don't want to tare the fork apart if its not necessary, since everything else works good.
    any help will be appreciated.
    Thanks.
    It means your oil level has dropped due to leakage, or that your seals are beat, or that your lockout shim has cracked. Either way, DIY will be a job requiring some tools you may not have. Do your research, and good luck!
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  80. #80
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    Well from 8/06 to 3/10 - That was the service life for my quad seal - I thought! It started with a hard bump at the bottom of travel, which I figured was the call out for a bearing reset - but when I got the bike on the stand I found the dreaded oil-inside-the-boot that says "blown seal".

    However - when I got it all apart and examined the seal, comparing it to the new seal (especially in terms of fit to the shaft/drag) there was no apparent difference. I changed the seal anyways, but then I happened to be cleaning the old oil off things and was handling the chunk of closed cell foam that keeps the changing volume in the damper from blowing oil out the seal - and noted it was heavy. Comparing it to a new foam sheet, it was not only heavier but actually larger. This was the culprit!

    Always change the damper foam! They go bad!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester
    Always change the damper foam! They go bad!
    Agreed. They also eventually suck up enough oil that they lose the ability to compress, and often when reused, render the fork completely locked out, which is a mighty bizarre experience on a fork with no lockout.....
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  82. #82
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    hi!
    I've a lefty ELO which needs to be rebuilt. does anyone have the istructions? thanks

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    SPV housing removal issues

    Hello and many thanks to all that have posted info about Lefty service. I rebuilt my Carbon Max last night and now it rides soooo smooth! I have a second Carbon Lefty that also needs some love. I've broken it down and cleaned most everything, except for the SPV assembly. Which is stuck. And it's totally like stuck real good. It's my fault, the socket slipped and rounded the nut (SPV volume adjust housing) a bit. A few more tries...a few more slips...a bit more round. I ground the non-nut-grabbing lip of the socket down, tried again, and succeeded to round over the remaining edges. Crap! Well, I guess I don't need to try using the socket anymore. Obviously, I gotta get that little so-and-so outta there. Has anyone else experienced this scenario? I was thinking maybe some carefully applied heat and a punch. But, would a torch jack-up the paint? Or mess with some bonding agent between the axle and the inner leg. I'm guessing it's a compression fit, not glue. Cursing at it has yielded pretty much nothing...and the whole dilemma is starting to effect the taste of my beer. Please help.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondudeOhio
    Please help.
    Dude, you're f*#ked

    So this is the volume adjustment section correct? so if I understand, you can still remove the whole assembly from the fork, no?

    If so? Pull it, get a replacement SPV assembly and you're off.

    Now if you can't take it out of the fork? Yeah, things just got a bit ugly for you, crack another cold one and warm up your tinkering muscles.....
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    MCS: So this is the volume adjustment section correct? so if I understand, you can still remove the whole assembly from the fork, no?
    Si senor, this is the vol. adj. section. But no, the housing assembly is stuck like f#@k. Have you seen this before? Mine may have been hit and damaged before the socket incident, so I'm betting my situation is not unique. i'm not trying to push-off the blame, I did spin the wrench. And, a good carpenter never blames his tools, eh? Anyway, I'm going to have to replace the whole assy. The housing (black) is now round, and the volume adjust nut (red) has a nice ding in it. So if I further jack these parts up, that's cool. I was thinking maybe some heat? Or, cut a slot across the assy. turning it into a huge flat blade screwdriver slot? Or, drill it out for an EZ out? Or, drink cold oat sodas 'til it gives up and spins itself out. Thanks again for your time and knowledge.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by CannondudeOhio
    MCS: So this is the volume adjustment section correct? so if I understand, you can still remove the whole assembly from the fork, no?
    Si senor, this is the vol. adj. section. But no, the housing assembly is stuck like f#@k. Have you seen this before? Mine may have been hit and damaged before the socket incident, so I'm betting my situation is not unique. i'm not trying to push-off the blame, I did spin the wrench. And, a good carpenter never blames his tools, eh? Anyway, I'm going to have to replace the whole assy. The housing (black) is now round, and the volume adjust nut (red) has a nice ding in it. So if I further jack these parts up, that's cool. I was thinking maybe some heat? Or, cut a slot across the assy. turning it into a huge flat blade screwdriver slot? Or, drill it out for an EZ out? Or, drink cold oat sodas 'til it gives up and spins itself out. Thanks again for your time and knowledge.
    I'd try and remove it, using the red "nut" as a driver. Unscrew it till it stops, and then, it will be driving the whole assembly out. If that goes south, get out the drills, hack saw, easy outs, etc, and have a good old time destroying it.....
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  87. #87
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    MCS. I was hoping you can help me.
    I am going to service my lefty.

    I am in Ireland and cant get hold of US oils you guy get.

    I was going to use this http://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/acatalog..._5w_500ml.html 5w
    I have been using it in my R6 race bike for years and it works very well under proper track racing situations.

    It seems to be the same weight as the cannondale stuff.

    Would you use it if you were in my situation ?
    If your not slidin, yur not ridin

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsxr1
    Would you use it if you were in my situation ?
    Yep, I would, it should be fine. Fork oil has anti foam agents, other stuff doesn't. Therefore, any fork oil should work adequately..... As for weight, thicker, thinner it all works, but 5 wt is what they ship with. Thicker is nice if you use a stiffer spring than red, or weigh more than 200lbs (air forks...)
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  89. #89
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    LEFTY MAX 140 TRAVEL MANAGEMENT service

    interesting file where you can see a LEFTY MAX 140 TRAVEL MANAGEMENT service, not sure if there are lefty's w/TM but its also SVP so interesting with good pics!

    http://maximatgmh.free.fr/Instructio...efty%20MAX.pdf

  90. #90
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    Hi all,I'm trying to do an oil change on a lefty Max 140. The 22mm socket will not grab on the damper assemly to remove it. The bike is used and it was pretty rounded before I started but I rounded it even more. This thing is in tight. Looking at it there is a hole in the edge of the assembly that looks like it might be a lock set screw to keep the assembly from turning. It's not mentioned in the instructions so I was not looking for it. I took out the bleed screw so that is not what I'm looking at. Is this a set screw? I can't get an allen key in it. If it is what size allen key do I need. Help.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by hugh088
    Help.
    There's a few factors. Yep, it's likely tight, so you'll need to stabilize it well, so you can apply downward force, while you turn.

    Careful, too many slips, and it'll round off for good.

    Check your socket, if it chamfers up to the flats, you may wish to grind it down, so as to get complete purchase, you can lose like 1/2 your contact surface with those chamfered edges.

    Not too sure what set screw you're seeing, if you took the bleed screw out, but, put the bleed screw back in. You crush that fragile wall around it's edge, near the wrench flat, and you have a perma-leaker, bummer....

    If you can't stabilize it to crack it off, wait till you can, trust me.

    Good luck!
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  92. #92
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    Pre-load testing

    Hi all, I am in the process of rebuilding my Lefty DLR2 which was suffering very high bearing preload.

    I am planning to make sure I thoroughly test and adjust the pre-load ... so my question is: when testing bearing pre-load should the bearings be fully greased, and assembled with the race clip?

    Thanks

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by shane74
    when testing bearing pre-load should the bearings be fully greased, and assembled with the race clip?
    Grease yes. Race clip, not a factor....
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  94. #94
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    Hope Lefty before disassembly-

    Hi,
    A few people indicated that a little variance in length of the inner races was normal. But when I look under my boot before disassembling the fork (Lefty2.0ELO) one of the races sticks up about an inch and a half higher than the others. Is there even room for the inner to stick up that far inside the fork? The bearings are aligned as I can see them when I extend the fork without pressure. I also "think" I can feel the bearings falling off and back onto the race when I max out the travel. It's smooth until I get to that point though.
    Also, the ELO doesn't have the split ring at the top so I'm guessing that I don't have to worry about anything at the top except taking off the main nut and pulling out the electronic plug.
    The only reason I'm asking before I take it apart is because I use my bike for getting around town as well as fun so I would like to have everything ready to get back up and running after taking it apart.
    I appreciate any input you have.

  95. #95
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    which size quad O-ring do i need to get? someone posted a link to another size.

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#6540k175/=9q2nph

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#90025k222/=9mqn4e
    Last edited by yiucycle; 11-14-2010 at 10:30 PM.

  96. #96
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    Carbon Lefty Air leak

    Hello to the Forum,
    My 2009 carbon Lefty DLR is flat. I jumped on my Scalpel for a ride and noticed the brake cable sticking up. Was bummed to see the shock totally compressed. I put 125psi air in the shock schrader and am seeing the gauge needle slowly decrease. I called my local Cannondale LBS and the mechanic say's I'll probably need new seals and an overhaul for a about a buck fifty. Does that sound right? I'm not savy enough to do the work myself. Thanks Guys

  97. #97
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    $150 is awfully expensive for routine maintenance. You'd save considerably by sending it to Mendon Cyclesmith.

  98. #98
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    "which size quad O-ring do i need to get?"

    The -110 is the size that comes in the current Cannondale kit (my LBS recently got me kit QC685, though now I'm wishing it had come with the foam, which is does not). Either of these, I believe:

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#90025k222/=9ugqf3
    http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=9ugr7w

    Has anyone tried the different materials that McMaster offers? I'm not so worried about the materials, but I expect that the durometer would make a slight difference (the Viton is just slightly harder), so I'm curious if anyone has some real world data.

    While I'm here I'll second the remark about sending the Lefty to MCS, he does great work at a reasonable price. I am planning to replace this seal myself here shortly, but I'm keeping the box I've used to send this thing back and forth anyway.

    Jon

  99. #99
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    Anytime I get the itch to replace my 80mm Headshok with a Lefty thinking it'd be nice to have rebound and more travel, I peek into one of these threads, and that scares me straight for another 6 months

    Unless I'm thinking it's more complicated than it is

  100. #100
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    Seems all the links to the Lefty service manuals on the Cannondale website are not valid any more. Where can one find them online?

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Kosmonooit; 12-15-2010 at 10:25 AM.

  101. #101
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    Rebound Seals from McMaster

    I guess I'm answering my own question here, but since someone else had mentioned earlier that Viton was a better material, I wanted to correct that: Viton is better at chemical resistance, but the oil in these shocks is not particularly challenging, so I believe abrasion is a more important factor for this seal, and Buna-N (Nitrile) has better abrasion resistance. So in the interest of keeping these things going as Cannondale moves to Taiwan I'm also thinking of something very different...but for now 90025K222 seems the best match to Cannondale's current part:

    http://www.mcmaster.com/#as568a-o-rings/=a9bub2

    Jon

  102. #102
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    Where can I get the lefty service manual? My folk is lefty speed 100mm from Rush

  103. #103
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    Advice on changing the spring on my Lefty SPV

    I see you have a lefty like I just purchased ...Lefty SPV max. I bought this fork used from ebay. Everything clean and nice except one thing. I'm 160 lbs and it has a black spring.
    I placed an order on a blue spring but I really don't know the basic steps that I need to take to replace the spring and I'm afraid to damage something.
    Could you please help me ...my LBS would charge me a small fortune for that.
    Thank you in advance!

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by surfingthehills
    I see you have a lefty like I just purchased ...Lefty SPV max. I bought this fork used from ebay. Everything clean and nice except one thing. I'm 160 lbs and it has a black spring.
    I placed an order on a blue spring but I really don't know the basic steps that I need to take to replace the spring and I'm afraid to damage something.
    Could you please help me ...my LBS would charge me a small fortune for that.
    Thank you in advance!
    19mm box wrench and a 9mm box wrench.

    The 9 goes on the flats just below the joint where the preload ring tube ends, and the damping shaft begins.

    19 goes just under the top cap. Unscrew the preload tube, being careful not to bend the rebound shaft pushrod you'll expose as you pull it off, swap springs, reverse process.
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  105. #105
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    Instructions also here

  106. #106
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    Left SPV Spring change

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    19mm box wrench and a 9mm box wrench.

    The 9 goes on the flats just below the joint where the preload ring tube ends, and the damping shaft begins.

    19 goes just under the top cap. Unscrew the preload tube, being careful not to bend the rebound shaft pushrod you'll expose as you pull it off, swap springs, reverse process.
    Thanks!...I will post again with pictures when I'm done.!

  107. #107
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    lefty spv 120

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    19mm box wrench and a 9mm box wrench.

    The 9 goes on the flats just below the joint where the preload ring tube ends, and the damping shaft begins.

    19 goes just under the top cap. Unscrew the preload tube, being careful not to bend the rebound shaft pushrod you'll expose as you pull it off, swap springs, reverse process.
    I just realized that I have a Lefty Max SPV 120 not the classic 140. Do I need a special spring shorter than the one for 140mm travel? I can't find anywhere a replacing spring for 120 travel.
    Thanks

  108. #108
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    120mm Spring

    Yes, you will need a spring specifically for the 120mm travel Lefty.

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    What a helpful thread! There is one thing I have found with my lefty max ffd that is what is similar to others, the foam around the damper is saturated and also breaking down. It made filling the oil an odd experience.....

    Does anybody have a source for that stuff?

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by heinejoe
    Does anybody have a source for that stuff?

    Cannondale has none left. I've had good luck with a closed cell, oil resistant foam. Odd as it seems since we never normally look for foam in our lives, but most mid sized towns or cities will have a foam store, the local one here was very helpful, sent me samples etc. Happy hunting!
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    Foam replacement

    Good info on the foam store. Another source is the McMaster-Carr catalog. They have almost everything! Just read the descriptions on the web pages for foam, there prices are reasonable.

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    Hi wadester,

    I noticed in one of your pictures (on the very first post) that you have the rebuild manual for the lefty. Is there anyway you can post a copy on this site? And how did you get your hands on this copy?

    Cheers...

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by comt0006
    Hi wadester,

    I noticed in one of your pictures (on the very first post) that you have the rebuild manual for the lefty. Is there anyway you can post a copy on this site? And how did you get your hands on this copy?

    Cheers...
    I got my info from good 'ol CDale themselves. There are actually several useful *.pdf's, but you can't post those here - or at least I couldn't one time I tried. CDale used to have a page that let you download them all. It's come and gone a few times, but I haven't tried lately.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  114. #114
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    Hi wadester,

    I went on their site and found the manual for my 130 PBR. It's not all that detailed but has some good info in it. It's because my lefty is starting to act up and I would like to rebuild it. I've been using it for 2 years now with no service done at all. I put on about 5000 KM a year on this bike so it's due for a tune up!!

    I will go ahead and try it out myself and hope for the best.

    A few questions for you:

    1- Where would I purchase the tools needed to take apart my lefty. The top knob has a weird top cap that seems to need a special tool to remove.

    2- Where do I order the parts needed for a lefty. I assume Cannondale themselves right?

    3- What kind of oil do I put in the bladder?

    I am asking these questions because you've done this a few times before and I am a real newby when it comes to air forks.

    Cheers....

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by comt0006
    Hi wadester,

    I went on their site and found the manual for my 130 PBR. It's not all that detailed but has some good info in it. It's because my lefty is starting to act up and I would like to rebuild it. I've been using it for 2 years now with no service done at all. I put on about 5000 KM a year on this bike so it's due for a tune up!!

    I will go ahead and try it out myself and hope for the best.

    A few questions for you:

    1- Where would I purchase the tools needed to take apart my lefty. The top knob has a weird top cap that seems to need a special tool to remove.

    2- Where do I order the parts needed for a lefty. I assume Cannondale themselves right?

    3- What kind of oil do I put in the bladder?

    I am asking these questions because you've done this a few times before and I am a real newby when it comes to air forks.

    Cheers....
    Well, all my experience is on 130/140 MAX coil sprung struts. However! The top cap probably uses an outboard BB wrench:


    Special spanners, yeah, probably CDale. But talk with Mendoncyclesmith - he is the Yoda of Leftys, and can advise you properly. Either PM here or via his website:
    https://mendoncyclesmith.com/

    Oh yeah, don't just download what you think works for your strut - get all the lefty info files and read thru them. It will really help your understanding of the Lefty, and many things cross over.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  116. #116
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    Hi guys,

    I just got a beautifull F1000 with a Lefty DLR Ti, which unfortunately feels very raw. My guess is that the bearings are broken and I would love to fix this myself.
    So now I looking for info on this old fork, but there is not a lot to be found. For my PBR I found a very nice exploded view and some maintenance documents on the cannondale website, but the Ti is apparently too old....
    I could of course sent the fork to Cannondale or 88+, but I would really like to learn to service my Lefties myself (and I am on a tight budget for the F1000 ;-) )
    Can someone help me to explain how to take the fork apart (I already took the topcap off) or show me the location of a technical doc?
    Other question: I have some old bearings from when my DLR2 got serviced, and it looks like 2 of them are still OK, could I use these in the Ti?

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by suravida
    Can someone help me to explain how to take the fork apart (I already took the topcap off) or show me the location of a technical doc?
    Other question: I have some old bearings from when my DLR2 got serviced, and it looks like 2 of them are still OK, could I use these in the Ti?
    You need tools that unless you already own, you won't be able to source any more. Different than the modern Castle tool.

    Roughness means a few different things. Very tight bearing preload, or contamination. Common for that generation to have tighter preload, as the reset procedure was done by a shop as opposed to the owner like the later forks, so they wanted them to go longer between resets.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  118. #118
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    hi everyone,
    last week I've tried to reset my lefty carbon dlr2, but when doing it, the outer races and the needle bearings came out, 'cause the C clip moved from the groove into the telescope.
    Why did it come? I think because inside the telescope at the end, a little piece of the outer carbon layer (the clearer) came off. I've noticed also the C clip is a little twisted.
    So I've to restore the carbon layer (laminating a piece of carbon cloth)...say me good luck!

    however I've a couple of questions:

    how to restore the exact position of the inner races?

    and most important, a c'dle dealer told me it's unsafe using the fork when the inner races aren't in the right order (the fork could be dismount by itself, is it true?

    (in past I've disassembled it without take care of the inner races position, and after 1 year of heavy use I've got no problem)


    thanks, and excuse me for my bad english
    Last edited by lorenzo_btbw; 04-21-2011 at 08:55 AM.

  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    You need tools that unless you already own, you won't be able to source any more. Different than the modern Castle tool.

    Roughness means a few different things. Very tight bearing preload, or contamination. Common for that generation to have tighter preload, as the reset procedure was done by a shop as opposed to the owner like the later forks, so they wanted them to go longer between resets.
    Damn, so the only way is to ship it to cannondale?

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by suravida
    Damn, so the only way is to ship it to cannondale?
    Cannondale doesn't work on them anymore. If you call them, they may give you contact info for a small shop in upstate NY that does though.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    thanks, and excuse me for my bad english
    Your English is way better than any sorry attempt I'd make at your native language

    Inner race positioning is critical to the fork feeling good, and not allowing rapid bearing migration. It isn't a safety concern though at least not in the short term.

    There's a newer version of the split ring that will work better for you.

    If you have a damaged carbon upper, as in, you can see it chunked up and torn, I'd replace it, that IS a safety concern.

    If it appears to be in good shape, and the damaged carbon is your theory as to why it happened, leave it alone. Repairing it will only make matters worse.

    Inner race positioning is a function of making it "square". The races are available in thicknesses of a thousandth. With a micrometer, measure across the two axis of the inner leg, they need to be the same. Move races about till you achieve square. Still off, no matter what you do? You'll need to bump or drop a thickness on one or two, to achieve it. Then, bearing preload comes into play. But assume for now that you're close, and see how it works out.

    FWIW? The carbons do seem prone to pulling apart, if bearing resets are done too vigorously, just know you'll be doing it again, and get it close enough. Trying to squeeze every last mm out of a reset is likely to get you what you got.....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  122. #122
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    thank you mendon, can you show me the newer version of the split ring?

    let me know If I've understood: after positioning the inner races, I'll have to measure the distance between the opposing ones, the two measures must be the same, right?

    thank you again

    ps: the carbon damage isn't structural, but the thickness is about 0,4mm (0.017 inch) less so (I think) the split ring comes off when doing reset.
    however I succeded in laminating a little layer of carbon in a nice curve, so the next step is to cut to fit and finally stick it on the telescope. Just a little of epoxy, I hope it will make matters better...

  123. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    can you show me the newer version of the split ring?

    let me know If I've understood: after positioning the inner races, I'll have to measure the distance between the opposing ones, the two measures must be the same, right?
    The new rings are a spiral flat stock style, get the end tang into place, then work it around and the whole thing settles in. A bit of a pain to get in and out, but it can't compress under pressure, which is what happened to the old style.

    Correct, the two axis must be even, nice and square.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    The new rings are a spiral flat stock style, get the end tang into place, then work it around and the whole thing settles in. A bit of a pain to get in and out, but it can't compress under pressure, which is what happened to the old style.

    Correct, the two axis must be even, nice and square.
    good news: telescope repaired! I've to sand a little bit

    have you a name code for this ring? or where can I buy it?

    thanks

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    have you a name code for this ring?
    Part number KP089 will get you a 10 pack of them. A Cannondale dealer should be able to order you them, you'll need to work out what to do with the remaining 9 of them though.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  126. #126
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    Cannondale kit KH089/ and Service Bulletin (October 2010)

    Fyi
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-page1.jpg  

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-page2.jpg  


  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Cannondale doesn't work on them anymore. If you call them, they may give you contact info for a small shop in upstate NY that does though.

    I don't think Craig can say it so I will.............

    Send it to MendonCycleSmith.com. He'll fix it better than new most likely. He did a great job on mine and turned it real fast.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  128. #128
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    Ha!

    Quote Originally Posted by surfingthehills
    I see you have a lefty like I just purchased ...Lefty SPV max. I bought this fork used from ebay. Everything clean and nice except one thing. I'm 160 lbs and it has a black spring.
    I placed an order on a blue spring but I really don't know the basic steps that I need to take to replace the spring and I'm afraid to damage something.
    Could you please help me ...my LBS would charge me a small fortune for that.
    Thank you in advance!
    I could have traded you. I just removed a blue spring to install a black I got off fleabay.

    Yeah, Like MCS says, easy peasy. 19mm around the top, 9mm on the shaft. C'Dale says to put a drop of blue loctite back on the threads of the shaft when you put it back together.

    If you have not figured it out yet, use a Shimano external BB tool to remove the fork top cap, take the split ring off (by hand) and push the fork leg all the way in to push the spring assembly up.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Part number KP089 will get you a 10 pack of them. A Cannondale dealer should be able to order you them, you'll need to work out what to do with the remaining 9 of them though.
    no one could be so kind to ship to me one of this?

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Part number KP089 will get you a 10 pack of them. A Cannondale dealer should be able to order you them, you'll need to work out what to do with the remaining 9 of them though.
    i got the same problem with my carbon lefty max 140. I didnt realized my c-ring came off after a hard bearing reset. The bearing came off during a ride when i was carrying my bike up a hill. I check the carbon where the ring sits and didnt see any damage. So i follow the instruction here and rebuild my fork and change out quad ring etc... After i put everything back, it took couple big hit to reset the bearing(i think this where the problem came in). I didnt check the c-ring after the bearing reset. took it for a 2day backpacking trip and the fork came apart on my bike rack on the way back from the trip(i got lucky). so right now i need to rebuild the fork again. Any input on why my c- ring keep coming out. there is no carbon damage and it was pretty hard to put the c-ring in when i was rebuilding it. I guess the root of problem is resetting bearing. i guess i have to tap/ check the c-ring after every reset and make sure it is not out of the groove???? i might try to get one of those newer ring, if anyone got a pack of 10 of those ring, and willing to sell me one or two, let me know.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorenzo_btbw
    no one could be so kind to ship to me one of this?
    same here but i would pay for it and i want 2 rings. thanks

  132. #132
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    Hi.

    I've got a 2002 Lefty DLR which seems to have seized, i.e. it's permanently locked out even if the lockout lever is in open position. When I try to disassemble the outer cap of the cartridge using the KT004 castle tool, the insides (including the lockout bolt) are just spinning without being loosened. Why am I not able to loosen this cap?

    I've used these instructions:
    http://killerv800.blogspot.com/2010/...ing-notes.html and
    http://www.gordlaw.com/index.php?Cyc...dale_Lefty_DLR

    I'm grateful for any suggestions. Hope I've been able to explain the problem adequately.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaknudsen
    Why am I not able to loosen this cap?
    Those require the Kidney tool. It's a two stage tool, exclusive to that series of forks....

    Same top end interface, but deeper reaching, and two stage.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  134. #134
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    CORRECTION: The quad ring is actually a 3/8 x 9/16 x 3/32 (.375 x .562 x .094) actuall size is .362 x .568 x .103 AS568A-110. I got this information right from Cannondale. Sorry for any confusion.

  135. #135
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    CORRECTION: the quad ring is Double-Seal Viton(r) Fluoroelastomer O-Ring, AS568A Dash Number 110, Packs of 25 McMaster-Carr p/n 6540K134 ($12.42 / 25) or p/n 90025K222 (~$10 / 100). Sorry for the mix-up.

  136. #136
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    I've asked to a dealier:
    "in the picture of the "Cannondale race outer" in your website, the races don't have the "T" style head. Why?"

    he has replied:
    "I have had a look into the difference in shape of these bearing and looks like this has just been a design change by cannondale. The notches in the top of these bearings do not affect the fitting or seating of the bearings however these are mainly used in order when remove the bearings."

    is it true?

  137. #137
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    Thanks for your reply, MendonCycleSmith. This is the tool I've got:


    Is the kidney tool the small piece, or is it another tool altogether?

    My understanding is that I first should use the large piece to open the outer cap of the cartridge, then compress the fork so that the top of the cartridge is visible, then use the small piece to disassemble the cartridge. I'm inserting the large piece like this:
    <img src="https://entretien.vtt.free.fr/vidange%20lefty%20dlr/06%20desserage%20cartouche.jpg" width="50%">

    I'm certain that the teeth are engaged inside the lefty, but turning the tool does not loosen the innards.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaknudsen
    Is the kidney tool the small piece?

    My understanding is that I first should use the large piece to open the outer cap of the cartridge, then compress the fork so that the top of the cartridge is visible, then use the small piece to disassemble the cartridge.
    You have the right tool(s).

    Correct, larger tool on top, smaller one slid on, right under the top cap. The big tool then effectively can turn the smaller one, providing the reach you need.

    Remove all the air, and push down with the big tool. remove that built up air too. Rotate gently with downward pressure till you feel the lower tool drop. At that point, it should feel solid, not possible to turn freely.

    Crack that, and it will come out.

    You will need to pull the damper out, it won't come out with the tool.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  139. #139
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    Thanks again. To be clear, I am having trouble with step 2 in these instructions:

    CARTRIDGE REMOVAL
    1 Unlock the cartridge by turning the large lockout knob counter-clockwise. Loosen the top clamp bolt and remove the lockout dial assembly. It may be easiest to pry it out with a thin small screwdriver.
    2 Insert the tall castle tool into the fork leg and using a 3/8” ratchet or a Park blue pin spanner, unscrew the outer cap of the cartridge.
    3 Completely compress the fork. This may be easiest to achieve by placing the bike upright on the floor. Slide the shorter castle tool onto the square flats under the cartridge outer cap.
    3 Release the air from the Schrader valve at the bottom of the fork leg. Engage the teeth of the tall castle tool into the cartridge outer cap and use the tall castle tool to press the outer cap down into the fork leg. If you can’t push it down, the cartridge is locked out. Hold the cartridge outer cap and use a 19mm wrench to unlock the cartridge.
    4 Applying slight downward pressure, rotate the tool counter-clockwise until the teeth of the smaller castle tool (under the outer cap) engage in the top of the cartridge body.
    5 Unscrew the cartridge from the Lefty leg. Turn the bike upside down, and remove the cartridge, making sure not to drop it. Note the orientation of the cartridge body (top), the air cylinder (bottom) and the 25.5mm cylindrical plastic spacer between the two. Also be sure to keep track of the black plastic saddle which supports the air cylinder in the Lefty’s axle spindle.
    When turning the top cap using the tall castle tool, the cap just spins and does not unscrew. As the outer cap is still fastened, I'm not able to compress the fork and proceed.

  140. #140
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    That's for first generation DLRs, their top caps were screwed into the outer. The second gen ones, were not.

    Put some air in, and compress the fork, the top cap, which need the second stage tool, will come up at you.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  141. #141
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    Aah, that clears things up a bit …

    I found this image that shows the second gen top cap without threads:

    My problem is then that I cannot compress the fork. It is completely seized regardless of the lockout lever position. All air is removed. I've even tried with a rubber mallet – it doesn't move at all. Any suggestions?

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaknudsen
    My problem is then that I cannot compress the fork. It is completely seized regardless of the lockout lever position. All air is removed. I've even tried with a rubber mallet – it doesn't move at all. Any suggestions?
    Fork telescope won't move, or damper, their functions are independent.

    You're getting to the point of being on your own, if the telescope is frozen, you're entering the hurt locker, and the sort of thing that people either give up on, send off, or roll up their sleeves.

    Sorry, busy time of year, only so much time to give....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  143. #143
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    It appears to be the telescope, as it is completely rigid. Thanks for your effort!

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaknudsen
    It appears to be the telescope, as it is completely rigid. Thanks for your effort!
    It's doable, lots of penetrating oil, patience, and good understanding of how the whole thing functions and comes apart.

    Otherwise, there are places that can handle it for you.

    Do recall you'll need access to a number of different race thicknesses, there may be several different ones in there.....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  145. #145
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    finally I've rebuilt my lefty speed carbon!
    however, I recommend the Cannondale kit KH089, it's awesome! it's more simple to put in place and remove, and it's safer than the retainer clip.

    thank you mendon

  146. #146
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    I didn't get a Spiral Clip in my recent rebuild Mendon

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet View Post
    I didn't get a Spiral Clip in my recent rebuild Mendon
    i would either send it back or do it yourself(which should take more than 15 min). I had to rebuild mine twice b/c the ring came off the carbon tube. I wish cannondale sent out a mass notice to all the owner, since i did sent in my owner registration. Lucky both time i was riding my bike when the fork came apart.

  148. #148
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    A question on a MAX 140 TPC. The ring that holds the "T" end of the upper races has a concave and convex side. Which side goes towards the upper portion of the fork, the concave or the convex side?

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mascobe View Post
    A question on a MAX 140 TPC. The ring that holds the "T" end of the upper races has a concave and convex side. Which side goes towards the upper portion of the fork, the concave or the convex side?
    Shouldn't make a big difference, but I'd go flat side towards the ground, just for sh*ts and giggles....
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  150. #150
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    Nice job with this.

  151. #151
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    I need to replace the larger of the two top cap O-rings on my Carbon lefty Max 140. What part number do I need?

  152. #152
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    2004 DLR Lefty

    hello, I have a DLR 2004 model and I have a clunking (top out noise) I have check the bearings migration but all , I stripped the fork down and feel the rebound shimming is not working, just wondering how I can pull apart the damping cartridge..

    Thanks
    JasonB

  153. #153
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    Leak

    Some issues here as well, maybe someone can shed some light: purchased a used 2008Rush 5 with a Lefty DLR2 Speed on it. The guy I bought it from was roughly the same weight so i did not change the sag/pressure for my first ride out, which was about 3 hours of rocky trails. First thing I noticed was that the lockout still allowed some play of 2-4mm when in the lock position. Also, almost sounded like a knocking sound coming from the shock as I hit bumps and rocks and the kicker is last night I attempted to reduce some pressue via the scrader valve (using a pressure gauge) and about 2 oz of pink colored oil spewed out all over my hands! So my questions are: do I need a full rebuild or did the air sleeve simply slip off or puncture? why else would there be that large amount of oil in the air chamber?

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksm279 View Post
    Some issues here as well,
    The pink goo is supposed to be there, oil bath for the air piston.

    If you flip the bike upside down it won't be sitting right on the valve. However, if you put a pump on to bleed air off, the goo is in a controlled environment, so no mess.

    The play in lockout is due to some oil loss in the damper. It's likely not a huge deal in the short term, but servicing it will take care of it. That ought to be done at least once every two years, Cannondale recommends it annually.

    The knocking could be bearing migration or the air in the damper. There's other possibilities too, but not as likely.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    The pink goo is supposed to be there, oil bath for the air piston.

    If you flip the bike upside down it won't be sitting right on the valve. However, if you put a pump on to bleed air off, the goo is in a controlled environment, so no mess.

    The play in lockout is due to some oil loss in the damper. It's likely not a huge deal in the short term, but servicing it will take care of it. That ought to be done at least once every two years, Cannondale recommends it annually.

    The knocking could be bearing migration or the air in the damper. There's other possibilities too, but not as likely.
    Phewww, that's a relief, many thanks mendon! The bike is from 2008 but the original owner said there was less than 60 miles on it due to him living in NYC. and based on the condition, I belive him, Lefty and frame do not have a mark on them! He did state that there was a recall when he first purchased, but that Cannondale correted the issue for him, so i'm glad to hear it's nothing serious. This is my first FS bike, actually first mountain bike since my 1997 c'dale f400 because I switched to road a while back. Glad i'm back though! Thanks again for the info...

  156. #156
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    I recently picked up a used prophet with a lefty max (I love the bike) and while performing my first bearing reset, I noticed that it had a brown spring in it. Looking at the chart from cannondale, the brown spring is for guys a little bigger than myself and it recommends the red spring for my weight. Is that something that is easy to change on a Lefty Max or should I hold off and have it done as part of a rebuild? Thanks for the help.
    Josh

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpenLight View Post
    I recently picked up a used prophet with a lefty max (I love the bike) and while performing my first bearing reset, I noticed that it had a brown spring in it. Looking at the chart from cannondale, the brown spring is for guys a little bigger than myself and it recommends the red spring for my weight. Is that something that is easy to change on a Lefty Max or should I hold off and have it done as part of a rebuild? Thanks for the help.
    If you've already got it apart for a bearing reset, you just need to unscrew the top assembly from the damper rod (10mm flats on the rod). Drop on new spring, put it all back together.

    I would be happy to buy your brown spring - or swap you for a blue. (I'm one of those heavy guys).
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  158. #158
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    I have a brand new red spring for a lefty max 140 mm travel

    Quote Originally Posted by OpenLight View Post
    I recently picked up a used prophet with a lefty max (I love the bike) and while performing my first bearing reset, I noticed that it had a brown spring in it. Looking at the chart from cannondale, the brown spring is for guys a little bigger than myself and it recommends the red spring for my weight. Is that something that is easy to change on a Lefty Max or should I hold off and have it done as part of a rebuild? Thanks for the help.

  159. #159
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    Thank you for the advice guys, I will send a PM.
    Josh

  160. #160
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    Anyone know the part # and source for the O ring that slides up the rebound damper shaft and sits up against the small blue spring? Thanks

  161. #161
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    Hi all,

    Great thread regarding Lefty maintenance.
    I have a Lefty max TPC+ which was pre-owned on my Jekyll.
    Could someone tell me if its a 140 as am confused after reading about a 130.
    No serial numbers or any other labels onthe fork so I need to confirm its a 140 before I order the wrong seal kit etc..
    If info regarding this model would be of great help.
    Thanks in advance.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by adanks View Post
    If info regarding this model would be of great help.
    130
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  163. #163
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    Many thanks,
    Any info regarding seal kits, diagrams , schematics etc for the above.

    Regards
    Ada

  164. #164
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    Lefty Quad-Ring Explained

    The lefty manual on C'dales website (120024.pdf) shows everything except on how to remove the rebound shaft seal housing and seal. If you have a SPV type damper Lefty, I have found that all you need is the quad ring seal (Quattro seal) because most all of the other seals will be in good condition and are static (no movement); the material is called Buna-N. Another material is called “Viton” better for heat and wear so I opted for the Viton; more $$ but it will last longer. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr (part number 90025K222 Buna-N or 6540K134 Viton). The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-110 (3/32” Thick X 3/8” Inner Diameter X 9/16” Outer Diameter or). You’ll also notice that the o-rings do not exactly match the listed numbers. So when you measure to match them you just need to be close. (ie .103 X .362 X .568).

    ASSEMBLY TIP: Before you reassemble the piston shaft past the Quad ring seal; wrap some Teflon seal tape (white plumbers seal tape) around the wrenching flats. The reason for this; the tape will protect the quad seal as the sharp edges of the wrenching flats pass by the seal. After you get the shaft through, remove the tape.

    If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. The bike shop had me waiting for a month because c’dale had problems getting the foam strip for the FFC and TPC dampers. I hope this helps all of you.
    Last edited by fansaldi; 02-22-2013 at 08:58 PM.

  165. #165
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    Quad ring: No mistery

    see my reply post to "hammerli"

  166. #166
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    C'dale quad ring: no mistery

    see my reply post to "hammerli"

  167. #167
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    Lefty Quad_Ring xplaned

    The lefty manual on C'dales website (120024.pdf) shows everything except on how to remove the rebound shaft seal housing and seal. If you have a SPV type damper Lefty, I have found that all you need is the quad ring seal (Quattro seal) because most all of the other seals will be in good condition and are static (no movement); the material is called Buna-N. Another material is called “Viton” better for heat and wear so I opted for the Viton; more $$ but it will last longer. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr (part number 90025K222 Buna-N or 6540K134 Viton). The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-110 (3/32” Thick X 3/8” Inner Diameter X 9/16” Outer Diameter or). You’ll also notice that the o-rings do not exactly match the listed numbers. So when you measure to match them you just need to be close. (ie .103 X .362 X .568).

    ASSEMBLY TIP: Before you reassemble the piston shaft past the Quad ring seal; wrap some Teflon seal tape (white plumbers seal tape) around the wrenching flats. The reason for this; the tape will protect the quad seal as the sharp edges of the wrenching flats pass by the seal. After you get the shaft through, remove the tape.

    If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. The bike shop had me waiting for a month because c’dale had problems getting the foam strip for the FFC and TPC dampers. I hope this helps all of you.

  168. #168
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    CORRECTION to post 3/8/2008 "Quad ring"

    CORRECTION to post 3/8/2008

    The lefty manual on C'dales website (120024.pdf) shows everything except on how to remove the rebound shaft seal housing and seal. If you have a SPV type damper Lefty, I have found that all you need is the quad ring seal (Quattro seal) because most all of the other seals will be in good condition and are static (no movement); the material is called Buna-N. Another material is called “Viton” better for heat and wear so I opted for the Viton; more $$ but it will last longer. Most o-rings conform to the AS568A standard. You can buy o-rings from a supply house like McMaster-Carr (part number 90025K222 Buna-N or 6540K134 Viton). The quad rings are numbered the same as standard round o-rings so the quad ring’s number will be AS568A-110 (3/32” Thick X 3/8” Inner Diameter X 9/16” Outer Diameter or). You’ll also notice that the o-rings do not exactly match the listed numbers. So when you measure to match them you just need to be close. (ie .103 X .362 X .568).

    ASSEMBLY TIP: Before you reassemble the piston shaft past the Quad ring seal; wrap some Teflon seal tape (white plumbers seal tape) around the wrenching flats. The reason for this; the tape will protect the quad seal as the sharp edges of the wrenching flats pass by the seal. After you get the shaft through, remove the tape.

    If you feel the need to replace all the o-rings buy the set from c'dale (KF225) and measure them with a pair of calipers and note their sizes. The bike shop had me waiting for a month because c’dale had problems getting the foam strip for the FFC and TPC dampers. I hope this helps all of you.

  169. #169
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    Hi everybody.
    I'm trying to service my lefty max TPC 130mm (I guess) 2004 or 2005.(got it used)
    I followed step by step the bearing reset procedure but I did not succeed.
    The Damper knob pack keeps staying above top thread about 1".
    Yes it springs out when unscrew top cap
    The total length of the fork fully extended is 67 cm and the difference when fully compressed is -11 cm.Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-img_0011.jpg
    I unscrewed the bottom cap of the external tube but I can't get the telescope out.
    I'm stuck here....Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-img_0012.jpg

    How can I pull out bearings and races?
    another q. for you:
    How does the damper push rod works?
    I mean: is the oil flow that pushes the rod towards the control knob or it is spring loaded
    Thank you for your answer.

  170. #170
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    Hello filbike,
    did this some days ago on a Lefty Max 140 - hope I can help you out.
    First thing 2nd picture shows it almost perfect - past the thread of the lower nut you can see there's a small metal ring. For complete disassembly it has to be removed. You do this by pushing the end of the outer races inwards and pulling the the ring bit by bit down to the axle. It's a little bit tricky 'cause you have to do those actions at the same time, a small screwdriver or knifetip will help you.

    In order of your question about the rebound adjuster -> have you already loosen that 19 mm nut under the main spring? By taking the fork apart you will do this sooner or later, but so far I can tell you: the more you turn the knob, the more a rod is been pushed into a spring on bottom of the rebound assembly.
    The assembly further contains some more springs and washers which are placed over and under a piston. Here you can see some detailed pictures http://forums.mtbr.com/cannondale/le...ew-309428.html .

    I can't tell you how it works in detail, but so far I do know that the rod coveres a hole an the bottom of the rebound body when the knob is fully engaged.

    Sorry for my bumpy english, hope you understand what I want to say.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVolker View Post
    Hello filbike,
    did this some days ago on a Lefty Max 140 - hope I can help you out.
    First thing 2nd picture shows it almost perfect - past the thread of the lower nut you can see there's a small metal ring. For complete disassembly it has to be removed. You do this by pushing the end of the outer races inwards and pulling the the ring bit by bit down to the axle. It's a little bit tricky 'cause you have to do those actions at the same time, a small screwdriver or knifetip will help you.

    In order of your question about the rebound adjuster -> have you already loosen that 19 mm nut under the main spring? By taking the fork apart you will do this sooner or later, but so far I can tell you: the more you turn the knob, the more a rod is been pushed into a spring on bottom of the rebound assembly.
    The assembly further contains some more springs and washers which are placed over and under a piston. Here you can see some detailed pictures http://forums.mtbr.com/cannondale/le...ew-309428.html .

    I can't tell you how it works in detail, but so far I do know that the rod coveres a hole an the bottom of the rebound body when the knob is fully engaged.

    Sorry for my bumpy english, hope you understand what I want to say.
    Thank you,
    especially for the link to the damper, it's what I was looking for.
    you've been very helpful.
    Ciao

    as for the english.....much better than I'd have explained.

  172. #172
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    HI I CAN'T SEEM TO LOAD IMAGES FOR THE LEFTY APART OR REBUILD
    CHEERS dale13

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by dale13 View Post
    HI I CAN'T SEEM TO LOAD IMAGES FOR THE LEFTY APART OR REBUILD
    CHEERS dale13
    Hmm. Just links, and they don't open. I looked in my mtbr gallery, and some are there but not all. I blame the forum software - I know it's been thru some things and some older attached images were lost.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

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  174. #174
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    Got two of them saved on my comp locally






    But only these...

  175. #175
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    Inspired by this thread I've made my own pictures of Lefty MAX Spv disassembly. When somebody need it, I can post it here.

    or just go to this site: lefty max spv DIY disassembly and service. All text in russian, sorry, but pictures says almost all and google translate must help.

  176. #176
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    Hello all, I had received an e-mail from Cannondale with a compatible replacement foam material for the TPC spacer in the lefty 140 Max. McMaster-Carr p/n 85175K54. I purchase 1 ft wide piece and I have allot more, so if you or anybody wants to replace the foam in your shock please contact me and I’ll get you a replacement piece for $6 each, free shipping. E-mail [email protected]

  177. #177
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    Lefty needle bearing reassembly (with pics)

    I am currently rebuilding my Lefty Max (TPC) for my fat bike, using MCS clamps. I found this thread incredibly helpful when I was considering the rebuild so I thought it was only right to contribute if I could.

    Most points of disassembly are well documented in this thread. Read it twice or three times, and looked at the factory manual pictures as well. The hardest part always seemed to be getting the two halves back together with the races and bearing sheets in the right places. Craig Smith and others mentioned using an inner tube to hold the bearings, so that's the way I proceeded... This is the part of reassembly I will cover, and assume you got to this part without issue.

    I will reiterate that keeping the inner races in order and in place in order to maintain the factory bearing preload is important, and is easily done with a cable tie or painters tape. Also, don't forget to grease the appropriate bits, etc etc.

    Find an old inner tube with valve, and cut and seal the ends in such a way that you can inflate it inside the hollow upper (including the valve) with some tube hanging out the end.

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-image.jpg

    I used a 1.75-2.0 mtb tube cause it was on hand, but a road tube would work better.

    Slide the tube up into the hollow upper (upper is mounted upside down in my stand). Inflate till it stays there without sliding out.

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-image.jpg

    At this point, I greased each outer race in turn and slid it into place between the tube and the upper. You may need to adjust your air pressure up or down to allow the races to "sit and stay". I installed them until just the "T" end was sticking up past the threads on the upper.

    This is where it gets a little finicky. You don't want to let too much air out, but you want the tube slack enough that as you put the lower in place, the tube slides down out of the way (or you can pull it down slowly) but without letting the races go from the trapped position in the upper. Practice this a bit before you proceed to the next step.

    I used a second stand to hold up the lower while I put needle bearings sheets in place. Using an o-ring (or elastic, or cable tie, whatever works for you), and of course while still holding the inner races in place (i used painters tape), slip a bearing sheet in place one at a time on the lower. As was pointed out in a previous post, have the sheets sitting exactly halfway on the lower, with 11 bearings above the lower, and 11 on the lower, held precariously with your retaining device of choice. (Sorry, no pic of this, but previous posts show it).

    Okay, You are ready to mate the two halves. Invert your lower while making sure the bearing sheets stay in place, and slowly insert the inner leg into the outer, trapping the needle bearings sheets between the taped inner races and the tube-trapped outer races. Take your time here, and make sure you're rolling in the same bearing on all four sheets at a time. As others have pointed out, a little wiggle here and there helps things keep rolling, since the bearing sheets tend to slip slightly off perpendicular as you mate the two halves. I found the needles rolled in with a slight click every time they went past the end of the race and into the outer tube. At some point you may feel more resistance, if you've bottomed out on the inner tube still inside.

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-image.jpg

    (Not sure why my pics get inverted when I upload)

    If you are in far enough with the bearings, you might be able to safely pull out your fancy rubber bearing retainer (inner tube), but at the very least slide it down a bit (adjust the air so you don't disturb the outer races). Don't forget to take off your tape too, once the inner races are captive enough in the assembly. If all the bearings go in properly and evenly, you should end up with this:

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-image.jpg

    If one is sticking up more than the others, I'd probably pull it out and start again with them all even, 11 in, 11 out like before.

    If all the needle bearings have cooperated, and are all hiding inside the lower, you have probably gotten past the most difficult part of reassembly, and deserve a frosty beverage.

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-image.jpg

    From here, you should be able to reverse whatever you did on disassembly. Don't forget to tuck the ends of those outer races into that clip that hides under the plastic cap, using a small flat blade screwdriver, or even better a plastic tire lever (in case you slip).

    There's nothing new in here. All these ideas were posted by folks much more knowledgeable than me. I simply thought it might be helpful for some folks who were stuck at this stage to have a very deliberate handholding post to walk them through this part.

    My only qualification is being an actual lefty myself. Lol. I do have two legs though, so that may not even count...
    2014 Motobecane Boris (Lefty Max)
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  178. #178
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    Hi,

    I realy like my Lefty PBR but Ive got some issues. I struggle with stopped option of lockout. Simply doesnt work anymore .

    I took a picture showing top of my fork. Can you take a look to tell me is that right or not. That little sprig shoud be under red cap or in it?

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-lefty-lockaut.jpg

    Cheers.

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulten View Post
    Hi,

    I realy like my Lefty PBR but Ive got some issues. I struggle with stopped option of lockout. Simply doesnt work anymore .

    I took a picture showing top of my fork. Can you take a look to tell me is that right or not. That little sprig shoud be under red cap or in it?
    The spring should be inside the red knob, not underneath.

    Chances are, water and grit got down into the shaft underneath, and have gummed up the actuation mechanism.

    The damper needs to be fully torn down in order to address is, but it's an easy fix once the damper is apart....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    The spring should be inside the red knob, not underneath.

    Chances are, water and grit got down into the shaft underneath, and have gummed up the actuation mechanism.

    The damper needs to be fully torn down in order to address is, but it's an easy fix once the damper is apart....
    Thanks for a quick reply.

    Do I need special tools to take it apart (e.g. castle tool or similar)?

    I also strugle with braking boot in lower section every year. Do you have similar experiance?

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by kulten View Post
    Do I need special tools to take it apart (e.g. castle tool or similar)?

    I also strugle with braking boot in lower section every year. Do you have similar experiance?
    Yes, that tool, and a several others too. As well as some knowledge of the process.

    Not sure I understand. Braking boot? Do you mean that the boot gets a hole in it easily? If so, sure, I get a hole now and then, but there's usually a cause, a crash in rocks, something rubbing on the boot for a long time (like the brake line) etc. Usually avoidable to some extent with a bit of observation and planning. Cheap to replace when it does happen though....
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  182. #182
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    Long shot question.....

    I'm wrestling with an older Max SPV that keep suffering from sticky SPV, have TPC in another Lefty which I'm happy with but obviously the TPC units are no longer supported so does anyone have a stash/source of TPC dampers, even 2nd hand would do!

    really can't stretch to PBR conversion due to cost but can't use this lefty any more because of the wretched SPV!!

  183. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yes, that tool, and a several others too. As well as some knowledge of the process.

    Not sure I understand. Braking boot? Do you mean that the boot gets a hole in it easily? If so, sure, I get a hole now and then, but there's usually a cause, a crash in rocks, something rubbing on the boot for a long time (like the brake line) etc. Usually avoidable to some extent with a bit of observation and planning. Cheap to replace when it does happen though....
    Thank you.

  184. #184
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    Where can I source the tare down drawings you are using? I'd actually be looking for the 140mm supermax drawings if they differ much.

  185. #185
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    First post from a long time lurker... I'm rebuilding an old Lefty Max ffd and I have problem I'm hoping the wise people over here could help me with.

    I've managed to insert the races and bearings inside the lefty but if I tighten the Rebound Shaft seal cap all the way with a 19mm socket the inner races start to bend outwards as if they were very slightly too long.

    I'm I doing something wrong with my assembly? or should I just tighten the cap as far as it goes without bending the races? Loctite to the thread?

    Thanks in advance!

  186. #186
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    pic?
    Check under the rubber boot. Races should fit snug on the lower leg's race grooves.
    "Common sense isn't always that common!"
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  187. #187
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    Yep, races aren't all the way down in their "pocket" at the bottom.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  188. #188
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    Thanks for your replies guys, I've been busy so I couldn't do this earlier but I took the Lefty apart once again today and took some pictures of the parts to clarify my problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Yep, races aren't all the way down in their "pocket" at the bottom.
    Here's the races in their "pockets":
    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-dsc_0116.jpg
    Here's the other end. You can see the races extend a bit past the edge of the lower leg
    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-dsc_0117.jpg

    Rebound Shaft seal cap tightened against the ends of the races, a tiny gap can be seen between the cap and the aluminum lower leg.
    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-dsc_0119.jpg

    Rebound Shaft seal cap tightened all the way in, races bulge outwards.

    Lefty Max Rebuild illustrated-dsc_0120.jpg

    What am I doing wrong? Are the races the wrong size? Is my fork out of spec somehow? Help

  189. #189
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    That's odd for sure.

    Just grind the top, square ends of the races down slightly...
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


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  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    That's odd for sure.

    Just grind the top, square ends of the races down slightly...
    That's what I was thinking about, I just wanted to make sure I'm not just missing something obvious.
    Last edited by ovim; 10-05-2015 at 12:23 PM. Reason: Typo

  191. #191
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    A very late follow-up: I ground the ends of the races slightly and managed to get the fork back together and working.

    I bought the fork in non working state and now that it works again I've been trying to make sense how the damping actually works.

    I understand perfectly the workings of a "normal" Rockshox etc forks with rebound adjustment at the bottom and compression on top . But I had a hard time making sense of the stationary ffd damper rod at the bottom of the lefty. How can there be any oil flow through the damper already fully submerged in oil?

    After a couple of hours of hard googling and thinking (and not finding a definite answer) my conclusion is that the sheet of foam aroud the rod is the key to this system. When the fork is fully extended there is no oil pressure and the foam is "normal" sized. When the fork is compressed oil pressure rises and oil flows through the holes in the stationary piston and the increase in pressure "squeezes" the foam making it smaller and allowing more oil to flow under the damper piston.

    Can someone please confirm if I'm correct or tell me how it actually works?

  192. #192
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    You are correct. The gas bubbles in the foam are what allows the internal volume change w/o blowing anything out. If you left the foam out and filled the chamber full of oil you would have hydrolock until a seal blew.

    I note that if the foam is old it may not be serving it's purpose - if enough of the closed cells of the foam have ruptured. There was some discussion on replacement foam somewheres.
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    You are correct. The gas bubbles in the foam are what allows the internal volume change w/o blowing anything out. If you left the foam out and filled the chamber full of oil you would have hydrolock until a seal blew.

    I note that if the foam is old it may not be serving it's purpose - if enough of the closed cells of the foam have ruptured. There was some discussion on replacement foam somewheres.
    Thanks, that's how I thought it would be. Luckily a new foam pad came with a seal kit I used when putting it back together.

    Now I'm thinking if it would be possible to take a slightly more sophisticated compression damper from some old fork (which I have a few of) and stick it down there instead of the ffd?

    Probably the inner diameter of the tube is wrong and some other specs (which I don't understand )too. I'd still have to use the foam pad of course... And I have no idea how the ffd rod is attached to the end cap.

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    Thanks for confirming my theory. I got a fresh foam pad with a seal kit and used it even though back then I didn't quite understand what it does.

    Now I have more questions regarding this fork and a possible tpc upgrade: I found an almost complete innards of Lefty Max TPC for sale and they look like they're in good condition but the seller doesn't have the bottom cap (through which the compression adjustment rod should go?) or the adjustment knob. After a little bit of googling I found out that the cap should come with the TPC comp damper and has never been sold separately?

    Now I'm thinking if I can hack (drill) my existing FFD cap to accept the tpc damper/adjustment rod? What kind of seals does the original TPC bottom cap have?

    I'm also wondering why I'm tinkering with these obsolete parts

  195. #195
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    Why are you tinkering with obsolete parts? Cuz ya wanna.

    I did hack an FFD bottom cap, there is enough plastic "meat" for it - but I did have seapage issues. The TPC cap is aluminum, the FFD is aluminum/plastic. You have to chop off the plastic "tree", carefully concentrically drill the small shaft hole thru, then drill proper size hole for thread tap. The damper has an o-ring in a groove in the end, not sure whether that leaked or it was a something else.
    Enjoy!
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  196. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Why are you tinkering with obsolete parts? Cuz ya wanna.


    Enjoy!
    Yeah, Sometimes you just want to see if you can do it. If you blow it, you just send the thing to Mendon and have him put the PBR upgrade in it.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovim View Post
    Thanks for your replies guys, I've been busy so I couldn't do this earlier but I took the Lefty apart once again today and took some pictures of the parts to clarify my problem.



    Here's the races in their "pockets":
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here's the other end. You can see the races extend a bit past the edge of the lower leg
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rebound Shaft seal cap tightened against the ends of the races, a tiny gap can be seen between the cap and the aluminum lower leg.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Rebound Shaft seal cap tightened all the way in, races bulge outwards.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    What am I doing wrong? Are the races the wrong size? Is my fork out of spec somehow? Help
    I was wondering if I can just grease my Lefty by slipping down the boot and lifting the outer races with a screwdriver tip (like in the fourth photo) and squirt grease in there. I have an old 2000 Super V700SX.


  198. #198
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    It'd be like trying to apply sunscreen to your legs, by hoping if you put it on your ankles, it would just spread by magic.....

    No, you'll succeed in lubing the lower 1/3 of it at best. Needs to be fully apart to do a proper job.

    What you're thinking isn't a bad protection measure, and by no means a bad thing to do, just don't confuse it with a proper rebuild is all.
    Cannondale Lefty and HeadShock servicing, wheel building, etc...


    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    It'd be like trying to apply sunscreen to your legs, by hoping if you put it on your ankles, it would just spread by magic.....

    No, you'll succeed in lubing the lower 1/3 of it at best. Needs to be fully apart to do a proper job.

    What you're thinking isn't a bad protection measure, and by no means a bad thing to do, just don't confuse it with a proper rebuild is all.
    Thanks. It doesn't need a rebuild even though I bought the bike 16 years ago this month. Its really a low mileage bike and the forks is still smooth. I don't think this bike has more than 1300 actual miles on it. I just wanted to add additional grease to it without having to rebuild it. And I just rode the bike the other day. And I now have a 2015 Scalpel 29 Carbon 3 that I've had for over a year now, so that's my main bike.
    Last edited by Zomby Woof (MCM700); 03-22-2016 at 09:33 AM.

  200. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Why are you tinkering with obsolete parts? Cuz ya wanna.

    I did hack an FFD bottom cap, there is enough plastic "meat" for it - but I did have seapage issues. The TPC cap is aluminum, the FFD is aluminum/plastic. You have to chop off the plastic "tree", carefully concentrically drill the small shaft hole thru, then drill proper size hole for thread tap. The damper has an o-ring in a groove in the end, not sure whether that leaked or it was a something else.
    Enjoy!
    OK, so I went ahead and bought the tpc parts. Do you (or anyone?) happen to remember the thread size for the hole needed for the bottom cap? Did CDale use Metric sizes or?

    It sounds like you cant remove the FFD plastic "tree" without breaking it. I was kind of hoping I could it remove it so that I had a way to plug the hole and revert back to FFD if I made a mess of things.

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