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  1. #1
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    New question here. Help needed to decide on a FS bike

    Hello,
    I have just started to mountain bike and currently ride a hard tail bike which I thoroughly enjoy. In fact, I can now call myself a weekday warrior wanting to ride the trails as and when the opportunity presents itself. I was recently at my friendly bike store looking at some of the full suspension bikes and got a chance to ride a Cannondale rush 600. Me being new the FS world of mountain bikes, I enjoyed it immensely until my bike store personnel got me onto a lighter bike equipped with better suspension technology.
    As I understand there are a few rear suspension types that manufacturers are currently using on their mountain bike range. Out of this the Single Pivot design is the most basic one. Manufacturers have learned from this design and have gone on to design various suspension types. On the Cannondale Rush we have a single pivot rear suspension design. This according to some people induces pedal bobs and brake jacks when riding on trail. I have also read that because of low center of gravity on the bike, the pedals tend to hit rocks when riding on a rock garden. Has Cannondale evolved its Single Pivot rear suspension design to take into account these issues that have been reported by Cannondale users?

    Your comments please

  2. #2
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    I have a Rush and absolutely love it- simple does not always mean inferior when talking about suspension. I would suggest going to www.cannondale.com and reading about the Rush. It is true that it does have a lower BB but if you are riding that agressively just get a Prophet. On my Rush I went to 170MM cranks with a 2/9/bash set up and have more clearance for the rocky trails that I ride on. Go take a test ride and decide for yourself.

  3. #3
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    New question here. Which version of the Rush you ride

    Hello,
    Thanks for your response, Which version of the rush do you ride? The one that i was given to test ride was as Rush 600 which was fitted with a FOX Float R. This bike was not fitted with a hydraulic braking system. Do you think these are factors that i need to keep in mind when deciding on which bike I should be looking at?

  4. #4
    mad aussie
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    I feel I can comment currently riding a (much modified) Rush 600. I have owned many bikes with different suspension designs over the last eight years. They have included:
    Titus Loco Moto-low single pivot
    Titus Racer X- Mc Pherson strut Horst Link
    Turner 5 spot -Horst Link 4 bar
    Orange Sub 5-very high and forward pivot
    I have also had a chance to spend quite a bit of time on a Blur (VPP) and Giant NRS.

    IMO the difference between suspension designs is overstated, the differences in geometry and components have much more influence on how the bike rides. I cant say the Rush bobs any worse than the other bikes I have owned. I think the Loco bobbed the most, and the Blur was the most solid under power with the CDale in between. The downside was I didnt like the way the Blur was stiffere when pedalling over rocky terrain. I certainly dont notice any "brake jack" on the Rush, nearly all the rear end rising under braking is due to forward weight shift, not the suspension.
    As far as the low bottom bracket, its a mixed blessing, you do hit rocks at first, but you learn to compensate and its pretty rocky in Phoenix. It does make the bike more stable.
    I got the Rush primarily because our sponsoring shop sells Cannondale and I can get a deal. I dont sweat the suspension details because you learn to adjust to different bikes and it is the rider not the bike that makes the biggest difference. If I win or lose a marathon race it wont be because I am on the Rush.

    Kevin

  5. #5
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    OP, all of your statements about SP designs are true, let's get that out of the way. Now, I've ridden SP bikes for years, and found I adapted quite well to the bob. A smoother pedal spin takes care of most of it, as does a seated climbing position, which is more efficient than standing and mashing anyway! All this is now somewhat of a moot point with the advent of platform technology shocks. Pro Pedal (Fox) SPV (Manitou) 5th Element (Progressive) etc, these are all platform shocks. What these do is provide an air tuneable,low speed compression stroke (pedalling forces) resistant pillow. This is quite different than the old band-aid of a lockout. Thes eshocks work all the time, but isolate the rider from their pedalling input forces, you stay quiet on top, till a bump of sufficient G force causes the shock to move past it's "pillow". This is alos different than the proprietary Specialized Brain, which is a lockout, fully ridgid, till you hit a bump of sufficient force, at which point it's on for a few seconds, then locked back out. Personally, I hate the feel of that one, but that's me. All other suspension designs are attempts to fix bobbing, one way or another. Problem with them is, you toss a Platform shock on them, you need to de tune it to make up for the increase in designed efficiency in the bike, thus essentially wasting it's abilities. I love SP's, all other designs have less of what I love about SP's too. It's all about axle path. With an SP you get a curved axle path, as the rear wheel moves, it does so in an arch. This allows the rider to preload the suspension for jumping, or crossing an obstacle. All others have less ability to do this, and the rider adapts to it's lack of ability. You can ride anything, but a well set up SP with a platform shock is going to be the most plush, pedalling efficient, body englishable ride out there. My 2 cents!
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by weekdaywarrior
    Hello,
    Thanks for your response, Which version of the rush do you ride? The one that i was given to test ride was as Rush 600 which was fitted with a FOX Float R. This bike was not fitted with a hydraulic braking system. Do you think these are factors that i need to keep in mind when deciding on which bike I should be looking at?
    Well.. it started out as a large Rush 600 (only because I must have the BBQ black frame). Currently the components are:

    XTR mid cage rear
    XTR front
    XTR Shifters
    Hayes Mag brakes with 8" rotors
    FSA Gravity Maximus cranks 22/32/bash 170MM
    XT cassette
    Mavic 819 wheelset with Trailbear 2.25 tires
    Shimano M647 pedals

    It still has the original Fox Float shock which I will upgrade at some point just for fun. I guess the reason I don't feel much pedal bob because I almost never stand up while riding.

  7. #7
    USED2COULD
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    You are correct, there are several suspension designs aimed at tackling some of the challenges of full suspension design. It is also true that the single pivot (still in use on motorcycles) is one of the original designs. What should be taken in to account however is that suspension performance is very dependant on the execution of that design.

    I don't want to argue for one design or against another, I will however say I have ridden many different designs, and each has its benefits.

    The best favor you can do your self is to attempt to ride the different bikes in your budget, and see how you like the suspension available to you. It should be noted that most of the more expensive bikes come with shock / spring units that vastly effect the ride. The technology of these shocks has progressed greatly to effect the suspension characteristics as much as the overall frame design itself.

    Now as I have a Rush, I might be able to address one of your Cannondale Rush specific questions.

    Low CofG - it is true that the Rush has a combination of a fairly low centre of gravity, and a falling rate suspension that allows it to use much of its suspension travel in all kinds of ridding situations.

    I have hit my pedals on rocks with my Rush, perhaps a total of ~10 times this year ridding and lapping in 24 Hour Races. This compares to I'd guess about half that many times a year on my hard tail.

    I do not consider this to be a significant problem in relation to the benefits in ride characteristic I perceive to be the benefit of this design feature. On the other hand, being a long time hard tail, and fully rigid (before that) rider/racer I consider myself a "line picker". Since owning the Rush, I have been continually amazed at what is now an acceptable "smooth line". Again the real time use of the available suspension travel pays out in spades.

    NS2000X
    ___________
    <Insert Quiver>

  8. #8
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by NS2000X
    Since owning the Rush, I have been continually amazed at what is now an acceptable "smooth line".

    Ha! You should try a Prophet then, my friend=
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  9. #9
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    Hey guys, Thanks a ton for the inputs on the rush. I got a chance to ride the cannondale prophet today, and I found it to be a little heavy for my riding abilities. I found the rush to be light and nimble. and better suited to my riding abilities. The cannondale prophet that I rode was a size M and I found that I my head was right over the handle bar. This made me a little uncomfortable with the seating position. How much heavier is the prophet as compared to the rush?

  10. #10
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by weekdaywarrior
    The cannondale prophet that I rode was a size M and I found that I my head was right over the handle bar. This made me a little uncomfortable with the seating position. How much heavier is the prophet as compared to the rush?
    How tall are you? The Prophet will be a pound or so heavier, not a big difference. Any weight penalty in ride feel could be swapped from one bike to the other simply by using nice light wheels, and heavy, entry level ones. If you like bombing at some speed, and prefer to pay less attention to lines, go Prophet. Want a bike that feels snappier for racing and such, Rush.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

    - FrostyStruthers



    www.mendoncyclesmith.com

  11. #11
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    As a posted on other thread: After 1 year I would not buy a Rush again, altough I'm mainly a cross-country rider / occasional racer, I found BB bracket too low and I am hitting the pedals way too often. My previous bike was a full-sus cross-country racer (Devinci Dragonfly) and it was never appening, riding the same trails.

  12. #12
    USED2COULD
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Ha! You should try a Prophet then, my friend=
    Mendon, I have ridden only one Prophet ('06 1000), and I found it a bit...um...clunky compared to my Rush 2000. I'd love to try a high end Prophet, however I think I'd stick with my Rush for my daily ridding.
    <Insert Quiver>

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