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  1. #1
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    Dorel ownership, has quality and workmanship detail been affected?

    I just purchased a new Cannondale, and wanted to ask they community of veterans here if they had noticed quality slipping little details like smooth welds and paint work getting worse??

    Taiwann is not China, and from the looks of it quality is just a s good. Of course they are getting killed by Trek and its marketing and Carbon.

  2. #2
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    From my experience, quality has improved actually...

    Be prepared for this thread to burn in hell, always happens when this subject is touched.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

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    i work at a shop that sells cannodales and i have been there for six years. i have seen the bikes slowly change from all usa made to just high end usa made to all being made over seas. and i wouldnt say quality has increased because they havent been on the road long enough to expect any problems but from a mechanics standpoint they seem at least as good. only time will tell but i doubt any problems will come from the change. obviously the fact that the bikes are made in taiwan has not changed cannondales strict quality control measures. as long as a good quality control system is in place they could have the bikes made anywhere and they would still be quality bikes. we have seen prices come down which makes the bikes a better value and i am sure that was the reason for the move to taiwan.

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    Quality of workmanship was never going to be the problem - CDale was a pioneer of Al bikes but it's not difficult to fabricate Al bikes these days. Taiwan is were the excellence is in any case.
    The worry was / is that Dorel would fold up CDale as a serious bike company and just start stamping 'cannondale' on any old generic shite. This hasn't happened at all, to be fair, with the latest designs being very forward looking. Hard to think of a more exciting bike than the new Jekyll for example.
    So it seems at the moment that Dorel are looking to position the company at the top end of the industry, and it's business as usual from a rider's perspective.

    Anyone know if the warranties are still being honoured to the same standard? Was always a big selling point for CDale.

  5. #5
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    lifetime warranties against manufacturing defects and their crash replacement systems are still top notch.

  6. #6
    PNF Ax Man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    From my experience, quality has improved actually...
    Has it? What in your opinion has improved specifically? I'm asking because I genuinely would like to know. I've just glanced at a few new post-Cannondales on the floor of the LBS in town. Thanks!

    Dash
    Clearer-er of Prescott trails. Downhill downfall in your way? PM me. Have ax, will travel.

  7. #7
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    glad to hear that growing up Cannondale was really the CocaCola name brand of mountain bikes, now I own one and they are no longer made in USA go figure.

    Really hope Dorel, recognizes this but from the looks of it they are slowly creaping. First it was froms made in TaiW, then assembled in PA. Then it was, only some high end frame assembled in USA. Soon it will be all made in Taiwan and assembled in Taiwan. The next step after that will be to slap Cannondale name on lower quality bikes. And sell them to Mass retailers. I know it. I hope not but the writting is on the wall.

    Only thing that saves consumers buying Cannondale is their super quality smooth weld, you won't get that on a mass retailer bike with a CD sticker slapped on.

    You can see from the Cannondale.com website Dorel has neglected it the site is almost useless, no gear or accessories no pushing community or teh brand. Practically shut down R&D. And their Carbon frames are a step behind everyone else.

  8. #8
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    OK , So you started the thread to bash Dorel , it was not a genuine question ?
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  9. #9
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    Both my '94 Delta V 700 (USA) and my 2011 RZ 120-1 (China) are very nice. But I do wish that Cannondale still made their bikes in the USA--not because the quality was better, but because I hate watching so many jobs going overseas.

    Like others, I hope that Dorel doesn't trash the Cannondale brand. But if they do, there are other companies out there that also make nice bikes. But Dorel seems to be respecting the brand, and I'm a happy Cannondale owner.

  10. #10
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    Finish is better, frame alignement is more precise. there are less returns and production issues...

    The move to Asian made frames is one thing that allowed Cannondale to increase their R&D budget to really push the designs and engineering, the two things that makes a Cannondale a Cannondale. It was Dorel's goal to make Cannondale the best bike company in the world (or aim for it, that will always be subjective) by pushing innovation and creativity... They wont slap Cannondale stickers on mail-order-slap-a-logo type frames as long as Dorel owns the company...

    The website is better than it used to IMO but they are clearly into bikes more than over marketing the brand with a super fancy website and such. I prefer they put the money into designing and engineering bikes than into a fancy website.

    Their carbon frames are behind? Shut down R&D? That couldn't be further from reality... Get a clue.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TobyGadd
    Both my '94 Delta V 700 (USA) and my 2011 RZ 120-1 (China) are very nice. But I do wish that Cannondale still made their bikes in the USA--not because the quality was better, but because I hate watching so many jobs going overseas.

    Like others, I hope that Dorel doesn't trash the Cannondale brand. But if they do, there are other companies out there that also make nice bikes. But Dorel seems to be respecting the brand, and I'm a happy Cannondale owner.
    RZ 120 made in CHINA or Taiwan? Not that I like the idea of either but there is a big difference!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by paineman
    RZ 120 made in CHINA or Taiwan? Not that I like the idea of either but there is a big difference!
    Sorry, I don't have my bike next to me, so I'm not sure which. I probably should have just stuck with "Asia" when making my point, since I was simply making a distinction between "Made in the USA" and "Made in a country with a dirt-cheap labor market."

  13. #13
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    I was reading in some other forum that a LBS owner weight a 2008 frame of some aluminum CD bike. Like a Flash, the he weight the 2011 model of the same Flash the 2008 model weight 25 lbs and the 2011 model frame weight 28 lbs. Something along those lines.

    Not bashing simply expressing concern. I don't want people coming up to me saying hey Nice Cannondale I was gonna buy the same one yesterday at Walmart. They already sell at REI.com whos to say SportsAuthority is not next.

    And the connclusions about the website for a brand like Cannondale the website is very very bad. No accessories nothing.

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    I just had to warranty my old Caffeine 29er. Cracked around the keyway on the seat tube. It has be a warranty issue for a few years but I have been dragging my feet about it. I really liked the frame and didn't want to replace it. When the new one showed up it was a new CAAD9 flash frame. It has fancy hydroformed tubes and all that stuff but what ruins it for me was is doing to single pass welds. I really liked the look of the old sanded welds of the American made frames. If I wanted a Kona, I would just buy a Kona.
    I am sure it rides great and is lighter with all the new standards I am supposed to buy into to enhance my ride. But to me it is not a Cannondale. So I sold it. This has nothing to due with where it was made But I just didn't want to ride it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold
    Not bashing simply expressing concern. I don't want people coming up to me saying hey Nice Cannondale I was gonna buy the same one yesterday at Walmart. They already sell at REI.com whos to say SportsAuthority is not next.

    And the connclusions about the website for a brand like Cannondale the website is very very bad. No accessories nothing.
    Right, since you are so worried about someone from REI riding a Cannondale, then maybe you should spring for some extra "exclusivity points" and buy a Moots or something. That way, you'll never to worry about someone offending your delicate sensibilities.

    Or you could just get out there and ride--and stop worrying about whether your $600 bike is an endangered fetish symbol.

  16. #16
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    REI has been selling cannondale for at least 10 years now...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by akustik
    REI has been selling cannondale for at least 10 years now...
    True enough. Comparing REI to Sports Authority is idiotic. REI is an excellent customer-owned cooperative that sells great gear, and backs it well.

  18. #18
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    < unsubscribe from immature and/or childish and/or troll thread >

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Finish is better, frame alignement is more precise. there are less returns and production issues...
    Can you elaborate on the specifics of each a little. That's kind of vague. .
    Thanks.

    Dash
    Clearer-er of Prescott trails. Downhill downfall in your way? PM me. Have ax, will travel.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=Ice Cold]I was reading in some other forum that a LBS owner weight a 2008 frame of some aluminum CD bike. Like a Flash, the he weight the 2011 model of the same Flash the 2008 model weight 25 lbs and the 2011 model frame weight 28 lbs. Something along those lines. /QUOTE]

    Now those are pretty vague and very NON-specific comments....which models? which grouppo? And, honestly, weight is not the benchmark of quality, which seems what you were initially worried about.

  21. #21
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    Has anyone notice lately that some bicycle things are made in China, use to be most of it are made in Taiwan, what happen, even more cheaper labor and or Taiwan just can't cope the demand?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by wannabeRacer
    what happened, even cheaper labor, or Taiwan just can't cope the demand?
    Nope, the almighty consumer has spoken. Paying retail for anything, makes you a chump. So what's a company, any company to do, to allow consumers to pay wholesale prices, and still make a dollar for their precious shareholders? Ship off every aspect of your company, except the CEO and his cronies, to the lowest common denominator manufacturer. You think China is the bottom? Nope, they're where Taiwan was, 10 years ago. The real garbage is now out of Vietnam, Laos, etc. 10 years from now, you'll be coveting Taiwanese made stuff, wishing it was still as cheap as you remember from BITD. 30 years ago, Japan was where the cheap stuff came from, 10 years later they priced themselves right out of the market, onto Taiwan.....

    Race to the bottom baby, race to the bottom.

    Not aimed at Cannondale, but at the whole damn bottom dollar driven economy. We are our own worst enemy and it will come back to haunt us.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Nope, the almighty consumer has spoken. Paying retail for anything, makes you a chump. :
    You reference this thread ?

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=703620
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof
    You reference this thread ?
    No reference intended, but since you bring it full circle for me, um, yeah, that mindset.


    Save a dollar, kill your community, nice, can't wait for the future, it's gonna be awesome....
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Save a dollar, kill your community, nice, can't wait for the future, it's gonna be awesome....
    Sucks for sure. Hopefully people will figure out soon that the middle class is worthwhile...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    N The real garbage is now out of Vietnam, Laos, etc. 10 years from now, you'll be coveting Taiwanese made stuff, wishing it was still as cheap as you remember from BITD.
    Race to the bottom baby, race to the bottom.

    Not aimed at Cannondale, but at the whole damn bottom dollar driven economy. We are our own worst enemy and it will come back to haunt us.
    And by the time we will be done with Vietnam and Laos, the mighty US economy will default and bankrupt, labor will become cheap again and all manufacturing will be back. Circle will be complete. Hurray!

  27. #27
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    Isn't the 2011 Scalpel the lightest Scalpel yet? Isn't it the lightest full suspension frame on the market? If it isn't I'd bet it's in the top 5. I don't think R&D or quality has dropped.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Finish is better, frame alignement is more precise. there are less returns and production issues...

    The move to Asian made frames is one thing that allowed Cannondale to increase their R&D budget to really push the designs and engineering, the two things that makes a Cannondale a Cannondale. It was Dorel's goal to make Cannondale the best bike company in the world (or aim for it, that will always be subjective) by pushing innovation and creativity... They wont slap Cannondale stickers on mail-order-slap-a-logo type frames as long as Dorel owns the company...

    The website is better than it used to IMO but they are clearly into bikes more than over marketing the brand with a super fancy website and such. I prefer they put the money into designing and engineering bikes than into a fancy website.

    Their carbon frames are behind? Shut down R&D? That couldn't be further from reality... Get a clue.
    +1

    Nice ride!

  29. #29
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    But the problem is that I have noticed. Cannondale use to have "Double pass smooth welds"

    and you could not tell where the frame started and stopped or where the weld began or stopped.

    Now it looks like they have switched to single welds with not as much smoothing. Yes still much smoother than Trek or any other maker. But you can see the difference with earlier 90's or 00's Cannondales. Compared to 2010 models.

  30. #30
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    My Toyota Tundra is made in Ontario, according to the them of this thread I should be pissed that it's not made in Japan!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    From my experience, quality has improved actually...

    Be prepared for this thread to burn in hell, always happens when this subject is touched.

    Here we go again.................

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    No reference intended, but since you bring it full circle for me, um, yeah, that mindset.


    Save a dollar, kill your community, nice, can't wait for the future, it's gonna be awesome....

    Ahhh Craig I hear ya bud, honestly I do. It's sad but this is the "consumer age", Friggen ridiculous if you ask me. Make it cheaper so that it's not worth fixing or even better cannot be fixed. The consumer then just throws it away and buys a new one.

    Where does that leave the middle man, the guy who made a living fixing things? $h!t out of luck that's where.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by brows141
    Ahhh Craig I hear ya bud, honestly I do. It's sad but this is the "consumer age", Friggen ridiculous if you ask me. Make it cheaper so that it's not worth fixing or even better cannot be fixed. The consumer then just throws it away and buys a new one.

    Where does that leave the middle man, the guy who made a living fixing things? $h!t out of luck that's where.
    We were discussing this post ride last night.

    You can't buy a nice range for your kitchen anymore. We spent $1500 (not an insignificant sum if you were to ask me) for a Frigidaire a few years back, and within 2 years, the rings around the burners were all rusted out, and a bolt failed, causing one of our burners to drop into the stove top. Also had a nice design flaw in that the glass for the oven door is open, so when you clean the door with spray cleaner, or spill something from above, it goes down inside the glass, forever, talk about dumb.

    Called a local fixer guy, he took a look, and told us, $500 to fix it, excuse me?

    So we deal without that burner.

    Sent a note to the company, polite, well worded, nothing. Just a big, silent, F.U.

    However, we have a Frigidaire freezer in our basement, that we got from a friends mom, she was getting rid of it cause it was old, she'd had it 15 or 20 years.

    5 years later, still purring like a ***** cat.

    God Bless corporate America, they have us right where they want us, making them rich, us poor, and the landfills, full.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by brows141
    Ahhh Craig I hear ya bud, honestly I do. It's sad but this is the "consumer age", Friggen ridiculous if you ask me. Make it cheaper so that it's not worth fixing or even better cannot be fixed. The consumer then just throws it away and buys a new one.

    Where does that leave the middle man, the guy who made a living fixing things? $h!t out of luck that's where.
    yeah, I hope large company's and government wake up before it's too late!

    The government should be stressing the importance of keeping manufactures in ha US, one day we are all in for a rude awakening! Heck its already started, look at our markets right now. It really hurt when I found out Cannondale was going over seas!!!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith
    Sent a note to the company, polite, well worded, nothing. Just a big, silent, F.U.

    funny, that's all i've ever had from c'dale.

  36. #36
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    Dorel is pretty garbage when it comes to customer service I emailed Dorel and got a reply back according to them for 2011 there is only 1 promotional advertising image for my bike the Quick CX 3. Thats it. And $800 bike 1 picture. Heck when you buy a pair of shoes at Macy's.com they have about 4 images per shoe for a $40 pair of shoes. And Dorel, can only be bothered with 1 image.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold
    Dorel is pretty garbage when it comes to customer service I emailed Dorel and got a reply back according to them for 2011 there is only 1 promotional advertising image for my bike the Quick CX 3. Thats it. And $800 bike 1 picture. Heck when you buy a pair of shoes at Macy's.com they have about 4 images per shoe for a $40 pair of shoes. And Dorel, can only be bothered with 1 image.

    Dorel is a owner of a series of brands and is not a retailer. Macy's is a retailer and has made it their business practice to show you 5 images of a 40 dollar pair of shoes. If you want to see more images you should contact your retailer to get more images. I don't see how taking one studio shot for the catalog make the company lousy.

  38. #38
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    Last edited by brentos; 05-02-2011 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Removed unjustified scathing comments...

  39. #39
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    despite the arrogance displayed here. I will with hold final judgement until I get my bike delivered. Then I'll see for myself if what people say is accurate or not.

  40. #40
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    OK...

    So quality has improved.

    -Fewer Lefty warranties than years past.

    -The dimensional tolerances on my Flash Carbon were far superior to those on my Flash Alloy. More accurate dropout spacing, disc mount alignement, and better build quality. As well as a much more thoughtful approach to cable routing.

    -My CAAD 10, although lacking the beautiful smooth welds of years past shows much better quality than the Flash alloy I had.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos
    OK...

    So quality has improved.

    -Fewer Lefty warranties than years past.

    -The dimensional tolerances on my Flash Carbon were far superior to those on my Flash Alloy. More accurate dropout spacing, disc mount alignement, and better build quality. As well as a much more thoughtful approach to cable routing.

    -My CAAD 10, although lacking the beautiful smooth welds of years past shows much better quality than the Flash alloy I had.

    Why did they get rid of the smooth welds? that was their hallmark

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by parkincake
    funny, that's all i've ever had from c'dale.
    While I don't work for the company, I will say this. Email an individual, you'll get a response, I do, every time. Call the company, and a live person will pick up, usually after the first couple rings.

    Sending mail to a general email contact, there's always a chance it will never get seen. Perhaps that's what happened to me, and if I was interested enough to pursue further, I can assure you, it wouldn't have been a another general contact box email.

    If you've only ever done that, you can't be too interested in solving the problem that much, a simple 1-800 phone call would have you dealing with real people, very quickly.

    Email is great, but person to person is much better.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paineman
    yeah, I hope large company's and government wake up before it's too late!

    The government should be stressing the importance of keeping manufactures in ha US, one day we are all in for a rude awakening! Heck its already started, look at our markets right now. It really hurt when I found out Cannondale was going over seas!!!

    Not that I don't agree with you because I do, (and I did say to myself that I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion again) but the Gov and large companies/corporations only care about one thing. I will let you guess what that is.

    They don't care that consumers are unhappy, not that much anyway. Sure they all have customer service departments and I am not knocking them. At the end of the day the guys at the top just want to see the profits increasing and they really don't care how that is achieved. Now I am not an educated man and I know that there is a more detailed blown out explanation, but that is all my mind compose and spit out.

    So don't go attacking me guys/gals it's just my 2 pennies worth.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold
    Dorel is pretty garbage when it comes to customer service I emailed Dorel and got a reply back according to them for 2011 there is only 1 promotional advertising image for my bike the Quick CX 3. Thats it. And $800 bike 1 picture. Heck when you buy a pair of shoes at Macy's.com they have about 4 images per shoe for a $40 pair of shoes. And Dorel, can only be bothered with 1 image.
    You measure customer service by how many promotional shots were taken of a lower-end bike?!?!
    Maybe consider buying something more appropriate for your needs: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Huffy-Disn...-Bike/14931101


  45. #45
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    I hate what CannonDorel did to the company website...every time I want archival data - I get a 404 error now. The real Cannondale always published accurate, graphic information about all their products, new or old....and kept them accessible for anybody.

    The company is now focused on crazy-expensive racers and/or expensive, near-crap entry-level bikes.
    "This is a male-dominated forum... there will be lots of Testosterone sword-shaming here" ~ Kenfucius

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    They seem like a company that is very actively pursuing innovation to me. I believe they have the strongest R&D program going and not too long ago they hired probably the most respected carbon engineer in the bike industry.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
    I just purchased a new Cannondale, and wanted to ask they community of veterans here if they had noticed quality slipping little details like smooth welds and paint work getting worse??

    Taiwann is not China, and from the looks of it quality is just a s good. Of course they are getting killed by Trek and its marketing and Carbon.
    Nope, I haven't noticed any decline in quality

  48. #48
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    Note the pics I posted in the CX3 post I own a Cannondale CX 3 2011 and love it. But I did notice some lumpyness to the welds I took some pics of the welds and sent them into to Cannondale so they could decide. Within 24 hours they had shipped out a new 2011 CX3 to my LBS. Which had nicer smoother welds. Now thats quality and service.

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