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  1. #1
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    Avid Elixir CR on Rize

    I have a 2009 Rize 2 with Avid Elixir CR brakes on it. Some claim these brakes are fine but there seems to a whole host of people that claim they squeal like a pig and make all kinds of noise. I'm in the camp of the second opinion. Don't know if the frame they are mounted on contributes to the issue or not. Looking for any other Cannondale Rize owners with Avid Elixir CR brakes and seeing if they have yet been admitted to the psych ward yet due to the noise driving them crazy? I came across a page that provided information on Avid providing some level of service. I didn't book mark it and now can't find it. Talked to the bike shop that sold it to me and they aren't of much help on an issue this specific.

    Anyone have similar issues? Anyone know of any support, if any, from Avid. I will try contacting them directly on the issue.

    Just so you know, I've adjusted then ten ways from Sunday and yet still squeal.

    Thanks....

  2. #2
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    I have the new RZ140 and had a massive groaning noise in the rear. I made sure the rear calliper was aligned properly and it has been ok on the last 2 rides. I'm doing a 100 km enduro on the weekend so hopefully all ok.

  3. #3
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    This is the rather famous "turkey gobble" or squeal.

    There's a multipage thread on this in the brake section.

    My buddy had this problem and fixed it by replacing them with Formula R1's.

    IMHO, it has something to do with their CPS mounting, the frame, and rotor. Some have switched rotors and the problem goes away. Some frame, caliper, rotor combos don't make noise.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  4. #4
    Tool
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    I've experienced and solved the turkey warble issue.

    I would NOT describe the turkey warble as a squeal, however. It's lower-pitched than anything I'd describe as a squeal, and is accompanied by acute vibration. I'm not commenting on anyone's choice of words - just trying to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

    My solution was to lightly file the edges of the vent holes on one side of the rotor. The vent holes are stamped, but not quite perpendicular to the rotor. This casues the edges of the vents to present a sharper edge to one pad than the other. This causes a difference in force between the pads that attempts to twist the caliper at the rate at which the vents are passing the pads. Filing down the 'sharper' edges eliminates the difference in force and restores smooth braking.

    Caliper misalignment can also cause a discrepancy in forces on the two sides of the rotor, and thus why people have sometimes killed this problem with a realignment, or pad change, or anything else that might be a cause for twisting forces on the caliper.

    If you're getting more typical brake squeal that isn't the turkey warble problem, alignment is the first suspected cause. I realize you've attempted alignment many times, but it is possible for a rotor to be off-centered enough that the caliper alignment system cannot center the caliper over the rotor. When this happens, you need to carefully coax (bend) the rotor back in the right direction so you can center the caliper once again.
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the feedback.

    The first couple of rides on the bike since new the brakes were fine. After they have bedded in the noises first noticed were the classic turkey warble. This has since evolved into higher pitch noises. Sometimes it sounds like a gang of chipmunks, other times it's sever vibration with the whole bike yielding a nasty groaning sound. Very similar to a poorly set up rim brake with not enough toe. Rear brakes are definitely worse than the front. Observation would suggest the rear brake mount is less stiff than the front if that has any bearing.

    There is no drag on the brakes. Both wheels spin freely on their own. Rotor is centered between the pads. I can deviate from the setup procedure to see if biasing the caliper one way or another provides any relief. I will also inspect the vent holes and any burrs which may remain from manufacturing. I would guess by this time if they did exist, the brake pads would have already worked them down flat to the rest of the rotor.

    Thanks

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorvati
    I will also inspect the vent holes and any burrs which may remain from manufacturing. I would guess by this time if they did exist, the brake pads would have already worked them down flat to the rest of the rotor.
    You won't find any burrs.

    The trailing edge of the vents on one side have a steeper angle than the same holes on the opposite side. It's slight, although you can feel the difference just rolling your fingers over the vents on each side. Sqeezing a pair of pads against the rotor with your fingers, it's easy to feel that one pad encounters more force than the other as the vents pass the pads.

    You probably already realize this, but it's possible to have no rub while not having the caliper centered over the rotor. I only noticed this on my bike when I started getting a slight, brief groan from the rear of my bike under certain pedaling conditions...I thought at first it was coming from the rear suspension, but it was the drivetrain pulling the rotor into one of the pads - not reproducible just spinning the wheel. It also wasn't obvious from a casual look that the caliper/rotor weren't centered - I had to examine what was happening as I engaged the brakes - only then did I notice the rotor moving to one side as the pads engaged it. Upon attempting to realign the caliper, I discovered that it was already at the limit in the direction it needed to go, so I proceeded to carefully bend all of the rotor arms in the opposite direction which allowed true centering.
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  7. #7
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    Removing the rear pads and cleaning things up I noticed something strange. The pads do not have equal surface area making contact with the rotor. The way the pads were made, the pad thickness in one corner simply tapers thinner, thus not making contact with the disc reducing the effective surface contact with the rotor. I can see how uneven brake forces from inside and outside of caliper, coupled with compliance in the frame and mounting can set up a harmonic in the system. I will see if a different set of pads will help. Personally I'm not a big fan of the agresive nature of metallic pads.

  8. #8
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    Its not the rotors as I switched by Elixers for XTs leaving the avid rotors on my Cannondale. No problem at all. XTs are nice and quiet. However, I love the CR elixers and put them on my best bike. Yes they can squeal when wet (running now XTR rotors). When I replaced the pads with organic compound and aluminum backplates, they majically became quiet with no turkey gobble at all anymore. No complaints and very powerful and light.
    2018 Canyon Exceed CF 8.0 Pro Race
    2016 Canyon Strive CF 9.0 Race
    2009 Lefty-Equipped Titus Motolite

  9. #9
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    This has worked for me for over 3 years now in my bike shop. There has not been one squealing brake that is has not fixed yet.
    Got disc brake squeal !
    http://www.squealout.com

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