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Thread: 650b Prophet

  1. #1
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    650b Prophet

    Just added a Stans 650b wheel/ Pacenti Tire to the Prophet. Didn't think I would like it, but it is way better. HA is now 68.5, SA 74.5
    Rollover improvement is noticable. No wheel-flop to speak of. Highly recommended.

    The XL frame fits a water bottle cage nicely. I machined the bottom of the Nashbar sidewinder cage so that it conforms to the frame, then I put some frame saver tape between it and the frame. Attachment is very solid(no wiggle). I need to get another black zip tie, the white one is unattractive. Funny thing is, the water bottle slides in the top so a side entry cage wasn't needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    Just added a Stans 650b wheel/ Pacenti Tire to the Prophet. Didn't think I would like it, but it is way better. HA is now 68.5, SA 74.5
    Rollover improvement is noticable. No wheel-flop to speak of. Highly recommended.

    The XL frame fits a water bottle cage nicely. I machined the bottom of the Nashbar sidewinder cage so that it conforms to the frame, then I put some frame saver tape between it and the frame. Attachment is very solid(no wiggle). I need to get another black zip tie, the white one is unattractive. Funny thing is, the water bottle slides in the top so a side entry cage wasn't needed.
    No clearance issues with the tires and frame?

  3. #3
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    The 650b wheel works with all the current Leftys without modification.
    There is about 7-8mm of clearance between the tire and lower clamp at full compression on my Lefty SL and Max.

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    Am I correct that you still run a 26'' CrossMax in the rear? Whould a 650B fit in the rear or lead to clearence issues?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jowan
    Am I correct that you still run a 26'' CrossMax in the rear? Whould a 650B fit in the rear or lead to clearence issues?
    Yes, you are correct. Yes, the 650b wheel fits just fine in the rear. Don't think I will change my current setup though. The front "sees" much more advantage to a bigger wheel than the rear. Mostly I wanted better rollover capability on technical terrain/downhills and the 650b does the trick. I already have good traction in the rear and want to keep the BB as low as possible. I put on a lower stem to compensate for the higher front tire.

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    Hi yogiprophet, could you tell me how your front wheel is built? I want to try 650b in my caffeine F2's front, but it seems there aren't many lefty hubs to choose from. I have a pair of I9 26"s and love them, but I guess they don't offer spokes long enough for 650b wheels now.

    Any feedback is appreciated!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by thunderbolt413
    Hi yogiprophet, could you tell me how your front wheel is built? I want to try 650b in my caffeine F2's front, but it seems there aren't many lefty hubs to choose from. I have a pair of I9 26"s and love them, but I guess they don't offer spokes long enough for 650b wheels now.
    Any feedback is appreciated!
    Hello Thunderbolt, the Cdale lefty hub is top notch and my wheel is as stiff as my friends 26" I9 through bolt enduro wheel. At 700grams this is a sweet wheel. I raced this very same wheel this weekend to another expert victory(on my Carbon Rush). The guy who came in behind me placed top 5 in the last 2 national races at Fontana and Phoenix in our age group. Talk about an exciting race! His ride is a new Scalpel with the new super light 7000 series Stans wheels (these wheels have a weight limit that doesn't include me if you know what I mean). He said his ride is 20 lbs

    The spokes I used are Sapim strong on the disc side 272mm long with 12mm brass nipples.
    Drive side spokes are DT Swiss Aerolite 276mm long with 12mm alloy nipples.
    Of course, the rim is Stans ZTR 355 650b.

    Hope this helps. get back with me if you want any more info.

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    Thanks a lot for all the info yogiprophet! Two more questions:

    1)Do you buy this wheel pre-built? I personally have no idea or tools to build wheels, so if you can recommend any store/builder that will be great.
    2)I know there are different versions of lefty hubs: SL, Omega, and the low-end one that came with my F2. Is there any difference between them?

    Thanks again in advance!

  9. #9
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    I didn't know there was more than one Lefty hub. I believe they are all the same. They change the name about every other year. Now they just call it the "Lefty" hub. Before it was "Omega".

    You could get a shop to order the spokes, rim and hub and get them to build you the wheel. Building a proper wheel is not rocket science, but it does take a little time. Make sure a mechanic knowledgeable in wheelbuilding works at the shop. Best to get to know the guys that work there.
    I suppose the hardest thing about the wheel is choosing the spokes and that is where most haven't a clue. It just takes a little knowledge of physics and most mechs do not have that. That is why they are making $7 an hour. If you tell a typical uneducated wheelbuilder the spokes I used to build this wheel, they would think I was crazy. But that is out of their ignorance of the stresses that a DISC mountain bike wheel "sees". If they were to experience it before they judged, it would be a different story.
    I got the tire at Rawland Cycles for a little less than $40 with shipping.

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    Do you guys think a 29 front would be just as good? I'm kinda worried about clearence issues, or it just fit directly like the 650b? 29ers are easier to find around here, since only Pacenti makes 650b tires for now, while I can find 29 tires easily. Any tips?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    Do you guys think a 29 front would be just as good? I'm kinda worried about clearence issues, or it just fit directly like the 650b? 29ers are easier to find around here, since only Pacenti makes 650b tires for now, while I can find 29 tires easily. Any tips?
    The 27.5" setup already is on the verge of having too much trail, so a 29" would be over the top and floppy like a chopper.
    You would have to limit travel about 20mm for the 29er.
    BTW, the Pacenti Neo-moto tire is the best front tire ever..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    The 27.5" setup already is on the verge of having too much trail, so a 29" would be over the top and floppy like a chopper.
    You would have to limit travel about 20mm for the 29er.
    BTW, the Pacenti Neo-moto tire is the best front tire ever..
    Yeah, I was reading about that in another thread, and I came to realize that there's little advantage going 29, so 650b could be the best choice as you say. But are Pacenti tires easy to find? I'd have a friend to buy me a couple of them in the US, because we don't have it in Brazil yet, I'd probably be the first, or at least the first around! Which rims and spokes would you recomend for a good, light yet strong and reliable wheel? Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    Which rims and spokes would you recomend for a good, light yet strong and reliable wheel? Thanks!
    BR, the ones I mentioned above are all that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yogiprophet
    BR, the ones I mentioned above are all that.
    Geez, man, I totally missed that! But I'll look for those parts then! Thank you!

    But I knew Kenda is releasing some 650b Nevegals. Wonder if they will be out soon... But the Neo-Motos seem to be very impressive!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black RONIN
    Geez, man, I totally missed that! But I'll look for those parts then! Thank you!

    But I knew Kenda is releasing some 650b Nevegals. Wonder if they will be out soon... But the Neo-Motos seem to be very impressive!
    I really cannot imagine a better tire than the Neo-moto. The Nevagal will not match it. And the wheel...I was riding it again tonight - man I can't believe how stiff it is. Downhill stiff - so much better control that the Mavic SL and the same weight

    I recommend a lower stem or a lower bar if you are using a riser.

  16. #16
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    Thanks a lot for sharing your experience. I went to my LBS and was confirmed that there actually is only one Lefty hub from C'dale, although sometimes the color or name is changed.

    I noticed that your prophet's HA is now changed from 69 to 68.5 degree. Does it possibly mean that my caffeine's HA will be changed from 70 to 69.5 degree?

  17. #17
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    I depends on your current front tire's diameter and your wheelbase, but your SA and HA both will decrease .5 to .6 degrees. BB height will increase 4 or 5mm.
    The way I have my Rush now (I raised the rear end on it) its HA is 69.5 degrees and it is a rocket ship. That angle with the 650b is very sweet, and I had no trouble making tight switchbacks that some others were faultering at the last race although the tire's grip had something to do with that.

    You will most likely not have to lower your cockpit. In fact with the amount of trail you will have, you will enjoy an increased amount of control without sacrificing any of the tight cornering ability.

    The Prophet, on the other hand, is on the verge of having too much trail at 68.5 degrees(keep in mind I am talking about with the 650b wheel), so lowering the handlebar position helps eliminate the traits that come with more trail.
    I really like the way the Prophet handles now that I have found the cockpits sweet spot. I have a carbon PBR on the way that I will put on it for very rocky races which is about 1 pound lighter and will bring it back to 69 degrees which will be better for racing. Don't get me wrong though, the 650b/Neo-moto is a definite upgrade to the Prophet. It just takes more effort to make it work optimally in all conditions.

    On the other hand, if one was only wanting to increase their Prophet's high speed fun then just put the wheel on and you are good.

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