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  1. #1
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    Canfield Riot (Toir) Rear Shock Tuning DB

    I'm new to Canfield and have a Riot on the way!

    I'm very excited.

    Been reading on rear shock optimization from other Riot Riders.

    I wanted to figure out how to get the most out of this bike and it seems rear shock is the thing to optimize.

    So, here goes...

    My bike comes with a RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 and I plan to use that shock since I don't have another $500 to plow into another shock.

    The frame it's replacing uses a Cane Creek DB InLine, which I am capable to tuning (I'm an Engineer that knows how to run DOEs!). I fully understand the IMPACT of HS/LS Rebound and Compression.

    What I don't understand is how to optimize the internal guts of a rear shock to affect these things. I understand the concepts.

    How I want it to ride.
    -mostly short (<2hr) rides
    -Technical twisty terrain, not smooth single track
    -little jumping or hucking of anything more than 1-2ft (I'm middle aged with a career and family to support and don't like breaking body parts)
    -EVERY ride starts with a climb is 1000ft in 3-6 miles.
    -(try to) rail corners and hop/pop off stuff as much as possible
    -I dig mid-stroke support and can't stand mid-stroke wallowing.
    -a lot of seated climbing
    -short sections of silly uphill rock garden crawling that make you feel superhuman when you clean them
    -Aggressive trail.. WTF that really means.. needs to go UP AND DOWN really well

    So, a few questions...
    1) what do Roit riders seek to "fix" with their rear shock? (i've read the "rear end skipping at high speed over chunk stuff).
    2) how to tune the shock for the best climbing ability?
    3) Any Monarch Rc3 users done any tuning? What did you do and why?

    Maybe this thread will help other riders as well?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogidave View Post
    I'm new to Canfield and have a Riot on the way!

    I'm very excited.

    Been reading on rear shock optimization from other Riot Riders.

    I wanted to figure out how to get the most out of this bike and it seems rear shock is the thing to optimize.

    So, here goes...

    My bike comes with a RockShox Monarch Plus RC3 and I plan to use that shock since I don't have another $500 to plow into another shock.

    The frame it's replacing uses a Cane Creek DB InLine, which I am capable to tuning (I'm an Engineer that knows how to run DOEs!). I fully understand the IMPACT of HS/LS Rebound and Compression.

    What I don't understand is how to optimize the internal guts of a rear shock to affect these things. I understand the concepts.

    How I want it to ride.
    -mostly short (<2hr) rides
    -Technical twisty terrain, not smooth single track
    -little jumping or hucking of anything more than 1-2ft (I'm middle aged with a career and family to support and don't like breaking body parts)
    -EVERY ride starts with a climb is 1000ft in 3-6 miles.
    -(try to) rail corners and hop/pop off stuff as much as possible
    -I dig mid-stroke support and can't stand mid-stroke wallowing.
    -a lot of seated climbing
    -short sections of silly uphill rock garden crawling that make you feel superhuman when you clean them
    -Aggressive trail.. WTF that really means.. needs to go UP AND DOWN really well

    So, a few questions...
    1) what do Roit riders seek to "fix" with their rear shock? (i've read the "rear end skipping at high speed over chunk stuff).
    2) how to tune the shock for the best climbing ability?
    3) Any Monarch Rc3 users done any tuning? What did you do and why?

    Maybe this thread will help other riders as well?
    Not sure about the Monarch, but I've got the Cane Creek DBairCS and it's been a mixed bag. A lot of people seemed to have hated the DBairCS, so I almost wrote it off a few months ago and got a coil. However, since the carbon is on the horizon, I figured I'd just stick it out and wait for the carbon just in case the shock size is different.

    I have played with the DBairCS for the longest time to try and get it just right, but never settled on anything. I took the shock off a couple weeks ago and let all the air out cleaned it up. I was then able (for the first time) to finally hear the detents from HSC/LSC and realized the shock may not have been working right the last year. Last weekend I downloaded the Cane Creek app and hit the trails. Focused 100% on tuning the shock. Happy to report this completely changed everything.

    The DBairCS now feels fantastic, and much much more planted. Using the app helped a ton, and I was able to figure out what was wrong before. If I have a huge climb i'll definitely use the climb switch, but overall the CBF does a killer job on climbs while in open.

    So, long answer short...spend the time to dial it in. Give it a shot before getting anything else. I'm glad I didn't get the coil for now, but who knows what the future will hold. Enjoy the bike!

  3. #3
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    I think ( this is what I believe, lol) the skipping a lot of riders experience comes from the rider weight being right over where the rear wheel comes in contact with stuff. A shock that has very little HSC and not too fast of a rebound works best. This is how my Avalance shock is tuned and i don't experience any skipping.

  4. #4
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    Tuning a DBI is actually really easy:

    step 1: sell it and make that POS someone else's problem
    step 2: use the proceeds to have Avalanche do their magic on your Monarch.


    Seriously, you can spend the time to tune it. Then as internals fail, and it no longer rides the way it used to, you wonder why because the fact that it's broken isn't obvious so you start tuning some more to try to compensate for the fact, unbeknownst to you, there's an air slug in it. Then you realize and send it back to CC, then start the process over again. MTBF on Cane Creek shocks is lower than the time it takes to tune one.

    Avalanche will make your Monarch dance in ways you can't imagine. Do yourself a favor and don't waste time/money trying to keep the CC working the way it's supposed to.

  5. #5
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    I really liked how the CCDB rode at first. I had a shockwiz on it and it felt awesome. That being said, I had to get it serviced and after that point I looked at the bill and thought that a monarch was a better choice for the long term. I hate the idea that i can't service it 100% in my own hands and have to send it off to get it worked on. Availability of parts and reliability of the monarch are more in line with the bolt action reliability of the frame. It isn't quite as supple but the time you spend tuning is time you're not riding. Send it!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joules View Post
    Tuning a DBI is actually really easy:

    step 1: sell it and make that POS someone else's problem
    step 2: use the proceeds to have Avalanche do their magic on your Monarch.


    Seriously, you can spend the time to tune it. Then as internals fail, and it no longer rides the way it used to, you wonder why because the fact that it's broken isn't obvious so you start tuning some more to try to compensate for the fact, unbeknownst to you, there's an air slug in it. Then you realize and send it back to CC, then start the process over again.
    LOL, perfectly sums up my experience with both the Inline and DBAir.

    @OP, I'm no good with shim stack tuning but there's a whole thread on it regarding the Monarchs in the Shocks and Suspension forum. The problem is, it depends a lot on your weight and the bike's kinematics. So unless you find someone who is the same weight and has the same bike as you, it's going to be pretty hit or miss. I'd propose one of two options:

    1). Sell your Monarch as-is, go to bike-discount.com (german site) and pay $190 + $20 shipping for a Manitou Mcleod. I have one on my Riot and my Balance, it's an incredible shock, and they say that the internals are the same was what the Avalanche guy puts into shocks. They're also dead-nuts reliable. It won't be 100% customized to you, but you won't be missing much. (Total cost = ~$0 after selling your Monarch)

    2). Send your Monarch off to Avalanche and let him figure it out! (Total cost = $229)

    3). Ride the Monarch and see! As long as you've got the right factory tune, it should be fine. They're a good shock.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    LOL, perfectly sums up my experience with both the Inline and DBAir.

    @OP, I'm no good with shim stack tuning but there's a whole thread on it regarding the Monarchs in the Shocks and Suspension forum. The problem is, it depends a lot on your weight and the bike's kinematics. So unless you find someone who is the same weight and has the same bike as you, it's going to be pretty hit or miss. I'd propose one of two options:

    1). Sell your Monarch as-is, go to bike-discount.com (german site) and pay $190 + $20 shipping for a Manitou Mcleod. I have one on my Riot and my Balance, it's an incredible shock, and they say that the internals are the same was what the Avalanche guy puts into shocks. They're also dead-nuts reliable. It won't be 100% customized to you, but you won't be missing much. (Total cost = ~$0 after selling your Monarch)

    2). Send your Monarch off to Avalanche and let him figure it out! (Total cost = $229)

    3). Ride the Monarch and see! As long as you've got the right factory tune, it should be fine. They're a good shock.
    On this note...when I spoke to Craig at Avy, he said they also do an amazing job tuning and revalving the Fox VanRC coil which you can nab from Jenson for just over $300. Just another idea.

  8. #8
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    All of this is good advise. I have a chubbie shock from Avalanche, cost a little more than the van/spring/tune by Criag.

    I had a monarch I was going to send to Avalanche as well for long XC days that I sold because I like the chubbie so much I would not use it. If I had the time I'd have just opened it up and moved some shims around to get more HSC blow off (this is smaller fast hits like roots)

    I have heard the same thing about the Manitou Mcleod that it has separate LSC and HSC but I haven't tried it.

  9. #9
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    Or you can just go balls deep right off the bat and order a 11-6. Problems solved.

  10. #10
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    i'm sure 11-6 is awesome. but it is sprung weird and you can't get a coil for it if you are above 220lbs loaded.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajak View Post
    i'm sure 11-6 is awesome. but it is sprung weird and you can't get a coil for it if you are above 220lbs loaded.
    Then you can get an Avalanche shock and use a dime instead of having a lever. A customed tuned shock is worth the weight gain.

  12. #12
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    30% sag, couple of volume reducers if the Monarch offers that.
    Climbs like a champ.
    Enjoy.

  13. #13
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    I didn't like volume spacers in my inline iL. Made it a bit spikey at the end. But I also run less sag than the bros suggest.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    The Manitou Mcleod works very well on the Riot, probably the best inline air shock out there.

  15. #15
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    I only have about 4hrs ride time on my new Riot with the Monarch Plus RC3 L/L, but it feels ok so far. Iím sure Iíll start noticing nuances.

    Volume spacers seems like a pretty easy experiment.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by In2falling View Post
    The Manitou Mcleod works very well on the Riot, probably the best inline air shock out there.
    I really love the McLeod on my Niner Rip 9 - it is super plush over the small stuff and it almost never uses all the travel. I have a DVO Topaz on my Riot and it is OK over the small stuff and bottoms out pretty easily. I'm still playing with spacers and air pressure on the Topaz but I'm thinking about picking up another McLeod.

  17. #17
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    I used the DB air CS for a season. I really liked it at first. There are a lot of tuning options and i had the good luck of being able to utilize a shockwiz. It was working super well and i felt like it was the perfect combo. Then, like some other users, i lost detent on my controls, then a trip to dupont, i had no adjustment control as air had gotten somewhere else in the shock. It had to go back to CC for a large sum of money. About 1/2 the shock's value. I soon thereafter sold it and got a Monarch. It has worked 95% of the CCDB without having to **** about with all of the controls.

    The Monarch might not have ever lever known to man and jeans don't get tight staring at it, but i can work on it tip to toe and actually buy the service parts and get them the next day if needed. I can get it serviced most places if i want to. It might not be sexy, but you're looking to bolt it to the bike equivalent of the Ak-47 and M1 Garand's love child. It is a brutally successful combination of reliability and serviceability and being able to STAY on the trail for the entire season is far more important to me than having to muck about with high speed compression.

    When you mention family, i just think that the windows of opportunity to get out to ride get fewer and further between. I'd want to make sure my bike let me get on and stay on trail as much as possible.

  18. #18
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    I built mine with a Fox Float X and so far the shock has performed so-so. Climbs great and descends ok, but bottoms easily and I've felt the 'skipping' over high speed chunk. Going to turn down the rebound and maybe add a spacer. If that doesn't work, I'll steal the DPX2 off my Tracer and see how that works...

  19. #19
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    My theory is since our weight is directly over where the wheel will make square hits you need to set up the shock to either be really soft if you don't care about peddling, or HSC needs to blow off easily, to avoid skipping. If you can't turn your shock to do this, Avalance or Push probably can. I'm very happy with my Avalance shock.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    My theory is since our weight is directly over where the wheel will make square hits you need to set up the shock to either be really soft if you don't care about peddling, or HSC needs to blow off easily, to avoid skipping. If you can't turn your shock to do this, Avalance or Push probably can. I'm very happy with my Avalance shock.
    Yeah I'll probably go that route if I can't the X or DPX2 to work for me.

  21. #21
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    I'd like to know how the DPX2 works out for you. I've considered that as an option.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonX View Post
    I'd like to know how the DPX2 works out for you. I've considered that as an option.
    I'll let you know if I get to it. I'm gonna try to get the X dialed in first.

  23. #23
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    I noticed some "bucking" from my Manitou Mcleod during technical climbs so I posted on the shocks/suspension forums here. Mullen119 messaged me with a rebound shim stack that he's figured out for the Mcleod that works really well.

    I swapped the rebound shims stacks out over the weekend on my Riot and this incredible shock just got more incredible-er. The rear wheel just tracks on technical climbs now, and the downs felt even better somehow. Feels like less bobbing while cranking out of the saddle too (I think it's just less pronounced since the rebound is slowed down a little).

    I think he's happy to share it with others if there's interest, but he asked me not to publicly share the shim stack arrangement.

    I'm going to change my Balance over next weekend. If you're looking for a great shock for the Balance or Riot I'm highly recommending the Mcleod, especially with a shim change.

  24. #24
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    After a long struggle I think I finally have my CC tuned. Here is what I found, I think it is consistent with what others have said.
    1. HSC is basically wide open
    2. Set LSC to manage pedal bob vs small bump compliance
    3. You need quite a bit of HSR to minimize the bucking sensation that many have observed
    4. I left LSR at the recommended level
    5. Less air is needed than indicated in the set up directions - set by sag

    This set up works for me and the rocky rooty trails in Mass. Climbs tech well, minimal bob, confident when descending.

    Good luck

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Pidassle View Post
    1. HSC is basically wide open
    How's it handle landing drops, etc? I found at 30% sag I needed to up my HSC to avoid harsh bottom outs.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonX View Post
    How's it handle landing drops, etc? I found at 30% sag I needed to up my HSC to avoid harsh bottom outs.
    I don't have a CCDB but I keep my HSC below off low. LSC higher. And handle drops just fine,

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I don't have a CCDB but I keep my HSC below off low. LSC higher. And handle drops just fine,
    The recommended setting for the CCDB calls for very little HSC. I dialed that back until I was getting full travel. No issues with the hucks that I am brave enough to attempt. No issues with g-outs or steep drop ins.

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