2011 Jedi updates?

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  • 06-28-2010
    MikeyOrange
    2011 Jedi updates?
    I've been hearing rumblings of a 2011 update/redesign... Anyone else hear this? What would you like to see?

    My list:

    - 0.5" to the top tube/wheelbase of each size
    - return of a small (not for me but the little folk need this)
    - 1.5" headtube
    - hyrdoformed tubing at the headtube, ie integrated gussets, but keep the simple and straight lines of the current design
    - return of red links, but with lots of sparkle
    - magnesium links?

    Lance or Chris, a 2011 update? Confirm or deny?
  • 06-28-2010
    bullcrew
    Maybe 1/4" shorter cs but aside of that this thing is perfect.....no hydroforming leave that to foes and intense they can keep cracking frames and Leave the reliability to the bros..m
  • 06-29-2010
    Juicy
    Hey, could Celine Gros be riding a prototype Jedi?!?!?!?
  • 06-29-2010
    cSquared
    Celine is riding a Proto now.
    No hydroforming for us. The sharp edges are weak even if they look good. Plus you can't do much hydroforming to 7005. And we love 7005, 30 percent stronger than 6000 series.

    We are testing a few things out to see if we like them.
    1.5 headtubes are a maybe- but with that comes more weight.

    More to come------
  • 06-29-2010
    cSquared
    Celine is riding a Proto now.
    No hydroforming for us. The sharp edges are weak even if they look good. Plus you can't do much hydroforming to 7005. And we love 7005, 30 percent stronger than 6000 series.

    We are testing a few things out to see if we like them.
    1.5 headtubes are a maybe- but with that comes more weight.

    More to come------
  • 06-29-2010
    MikeyOrange
    1.5" is nice but not necessary; might look aesthetically bad with the diameter tubing that currently being used (I'm looking at my Jedi while typing), that's why I made the hydroform tubing comment... The only part of the Jedi I don't like is the HT gusseting... Love the straight lines.

    Have you looked into integrated 1 1/8" headtubes? Lowers the bar height than a traditional 1 1/8", and smaller diameter HT and lower weight than a 1.5".

    I'd rather have at least a .25" longer TT/Wheelbase, if not .5". I have '08 and haven't ridden the 2010, but .3" just doesn't seem like long enough.

    Thoughts on magnesium as a link material? More suitable for upper, lower, both or neither?

    I'm guessing that the 2011 will be a Jedi evolution? A tweak here and there. But definitely bring back red links (not gloss).
  • 06-30-2010
    k1creeker
    Since the Jedi is god like with the Avalanche Woodie mounted, it'd be nice if the frame accepted this shock (and wider diameter springs like Obtainium) without...er...modification. :thumbsup:
  • 06-30-2010
    supramk388
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by k1creeker
    Since the Jedi is god like with the Avalanche Woodie mounted, it'd be nice if the frame accepted this shock (and wider diameter springs like Obtainium) without...er...modification. :thumbsup:

    I ride a small 09 Jedi and it was tight but I got the Woodie to fit with no mods. I had to take off rear tri but it did mount fine when it was all said and done. I hope to get some more time on the new setup tomorrow. I upgraded my fork as well, Avy front and rear now! :thumbsup:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cSquared
    We are testing a few things out to see if we like them.
    1.5 headtubes are a maybe- but with that comes more weight.

    Please say no on the 1.5 HT as it is not needed for the Jedi. If anything maybe tapered for more options but 1 1/8 is plenty fine IMO. I like the suggestion above on the smalls cause I need one.
  • 07-01-2010
    KavuRider
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by supramk388
    Please say no on the 1.5 HT as it is not needed for the Jedi. If anything maybe tapered for more options but 1 1/8 is plenty fine IMO. I like the suggestion above on the smalls cause I need one.

    I don't think that's true.
    Now that Cane Creek released their adjustable headset, I think its a nice option.

    I'm sorry I think tapered is dumb.
  • 07-02-2010
    supramk388
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I don't think that's true.
    Now that Cane Creek released their adjustable headset, I think its a nice option.

    I'm sorry I think tapered is dumb.

    Yeah not a big fan of tapered as well just saying if you need more options. I am plenty happy with 1 1/8th and I do not think any Jedi have ever failed due to having a 1 1/18 HT (was all I was saying). Are they even making 1.5 dual crowns yet? Reason why I ask is cause I have been told by several leaders in the industry that using 1.5 fork and 1.5 HT is stronger but not need in MOST apps. I have also been told you do not gain much (as far as strength) when using 1.5 HT with a 1/ 18th fork (other than HA options).
  • 07-02-2010
    Cable0guy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by supramk388
    Yeah not a big fan of tapered as well just saying if you need more options. I am plenty happy with 1 1/8th and I do not think any Jedi have ever failed due to having a 1 1/18 HT (was all I was saying). Are they even making 1.5 dual crowns yet? Reason why I ask is cause I have been told by several leaders in the industry that using 1.5 fork and 1.5 HT is stronger but not need in MOST apps. I have also been told you do not gain much (as far as strength) when using 1.5 HT with a 1/ 18th fork (other than HA options).

    I would want 1.5 HT so I can lower the bar height and/or slacken out the bike even more with adjustable headsets. Worth the penalty of little bit more weight IMO. The brothers should have done it in the last update to the Jedi IMO.
  • 07-03-2010
    P-townDave
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    I would want 1.5 HT so I can lower the bar height and/or slacken out the bike even more with adjustable headsets. Worth the penalty of little bit more weight IMO. The brothers should have done it in the last update to the Jedi IMO.

    Second ^^

    The bar height on this bike is way up there. Their direct mount stem helps a lot, but a shorter stack or 1.5 tube for zero stack headset would be great.

    The other thing I think people shy away from on this bike is the head angle. It just looks steep. I must say in my limited time on it, I didn't think it was an issue, but just sayin. 1.5 headtube or tapered seems like it could allow options to fix this concern.
  • 07-03-2010
    KavuRider
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    I would want 1.5 HT so I can lower the bar height and/or slacken out the bike even more with adjustable headsets. Worth the penalty of little bit more weight IMO. The brothers should have done it in the last update to the Jedi IMO.

    Agreed.
  • 07-13-2010
    supramk388
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    I would want 1.5 HT so I can lower the bar height and/or slacken out the bike even more with adjustable headsets. Worth the penalty of little bit more weight IMO. The brothers should have done it in the last update to the Jedi IMO.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by P-townDave
    Second ^^

    The bar height on this bike is way up there. Their direct mount stem helps a lot, but a shorter stack or 1.5 tube for zero stack headset would be great.

    The other thing I think people shy away from on this bike is the head angle. It just looks steep. I must say in my limited time on it, I didn't think it was an issue, but just sayin. 1.5 headtube or tapered seems like it could allow options to fix this concern.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KavuRider
    Agreed.

    Or you could just buy one of these :thumbsup:

    http://www.canecreek.com/component-h...product=110-ZS
  • 07-14-2010
    Cable0guy
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by supramk388
    Or you could just buy one of these

    Won't fit. Only regular 1 1/8" headsets for Jedi.
  • 07-14-2010
    supramk388
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Cable0guy
    Won't fit. Only regular 1 1/8" headsets for Jedi.

    Well I fig. it would work cause I bought it from Chris (Canfield) but we just got off the phone and he said no man send it back.

    I would not worry you will prob see the big ole coke can on the front for 2011 so all will be happy. When the 2011 show up I will get one and turn my old Jedi into more of a FRing rig. :thumbsup:

    Thanks for the heads up but I guess I would have seen this when trying to install it. :nono: I will send it back next week when Chris and Lance get home.

    I asked Chris about that head angle set up on the Commancals and he said stay away from that so I said will do.

    Man I wish the 2011 were ready!!!
  • 07-27-2010
    MikeyOrange
    I saw a pic of the proto... Just say no to the bent downtube!

    For those who didn't see this in the DH/FR forum:
  • 07-28-2010
    aenema
    Not a fan of the pregnant looking bent down tube either. Purely a looks thing but important to a lot of people.
  • 07-28-2010
    bullcrew
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aenema
    Not a fan of the pregnant looking bent down tube either. Purely a looks thing but important to a lot of people.

    Its pretty sick looking, its not the traditional straight tube but its a damn sweet looking bike.......:thumbsup:
  • 07-29-2010
    MikeyOrange
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bullcrew
    Its pretty sick looking, its not the traditional straight tube but its a damn sweet looking bike.......:thumbsup:

    I think that bend at the headtube looks fine (as well as the front end changes) but the lower bend is just terrible! Aenema hit the nail on the head saying it looks pregnant. It looks like there's plenty of clearance for a straight tube, after the headtube bend, to the BB. That's the only thing I can see that I don't like...

    Looks like they changed up the area around the TT/ST/upper pivot, as well as the front shock mount; looks to be more than enough room to have a multiple mount position... But I doubt that that will happen with the 1.5" headtube.
  • 09-24-2010
    MikeyOrange
    Any new info on the 2011 Jedi? I know the Bros don't do Interbike but they're usually in Las Vegas with 2011 products...
  • 09-26-2010
    flymybike
    A quick update.
    The Jedi will have a 1.5 headtube because the cane creek angle adjust HS is sweet! The dt will have a bend but a gentler bend than what the proto has. It allows for the progression adjustments and better shock clearance. The head tube still has gusseting but a bit different than last year, it helps keep the cables from getting pinched with the fork. Chainstay looses 1/4" but sizing remains the same. All the cnc has been redone so the looks will change a bit more. The red links will be back in some form, something dark and flat.
  • 09-26-2010
    katsooba
    oh my god thats a tease!

    hope we will have something to calm our eyes with soon ;)
  • 09-26-2010
    P-townDave
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by flymybike
    A quick update.
    The Jedi will have a 1.5 headtube because the cane creek angle adjust HS is sweet! The dt will have a bend but a gentler bend than what the proto has. It allows for the progression adjustments and better shock clearance. The head tube still has gusseting but a bit different than last year, it helps keep the cables from getting pinched with the fork. Chainstay looses 1/4" but sizing remains the same. All the cnc has been redone so the looks will change a bit more. The red links will be back in some form, something dark and flat.

    Chainstay 1/4" shorter? Sick. Super sick. Tire clearance an issue with that?

    Excellent decision for all the right reasons on the 1.5 HT.

    Second for pictures!
  • 09-27-2010
    katsooba
    will the new rear linkage fit the older 08 F1 Jedi?

    are they interchangeable?
  • 10-29-2010
    Pau11y
    Has the shock i2i length changed? Still the 8.75 or going up to the 9.5?
  • 10-30-2010
    katsooba
    why would it need to go up to 9.5?
  • 10-30-2010
    Pau11y
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by katsooba
    why would it need to go up to 9.5?

    "Need", no.
    But a 8.75 i2i has 2.75" (70mm) stroke => compression ratio of 1:3. But at 3" (76mm) stroke, the comp ratio is ~ 1:2.8. Not much of a difference, but when translated across to your weight... the delta for a 200lbs rider is 600lbs - 560lbs, or one spring weight lower (overly simplified). Lighter spring (ok, not by much), and less forces on your shock valves are what immediately comes to mind.
    What may NOT come to mind is that if the new frame can go super progressive, you don't want a shock that does either, unless you like to be bucked over the bars. Larger shock, more volume all the way around and you get a less ramp up at end of stroke, and higher oil volume means you can deal w/ heat better. Why do Avys function so well...they're friggin' HUGE! They also have that ginormous resi so no end of stroke ramp up.
    But this is just me being an eEngineer :D