Deer Canyon Trail Reroute Open and LEGAL!!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Deer Canyon Trail Reroute Open and LEGAL!!!!

    Great News for Deer Canyon! The opening of the trail is Saturday, Oct 5!

    Deer Canyon Trail Reroute Open and LEGAL!!!!-image001.jpg

    BUT because it is still CalTrans land, there is a huge problem. They have invested a lot of money in rehabing the valley floor. Tunnel 5 (closed) and Sidewinder (also closed) are still being used. Many new native plants have been crushed trying to recreate the closed line across the valley floor. CalTrans is legally obligated to rehab X acres and they have had to go back and replace quite a few plants at a large expense.

    So here is the warning.....

    The opening and continued opened status is contingent upon no more BS from the entitled users. If you see someone using Sidewinder or Tunnel Five, let them know that it is jeopardizing legal access from Switchbacks, through Deer Canyon, over to Tunnels. CalTrans has the budget to make it miserable for all users in that area. Please help spread the message.

    More good news...

    We are also working on paperwork to get McGonigle Canyon trail open all the way from where it climbs up the fire road to Santa Monica (Bakersfield to some), west to the intersection of Carmel Valley Road and the 56. It has to go through a bit of a process but it is moving forward. Right now there is a chain link fence just west of the fire road climb.
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  2. #2
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    Thanks for the heads up. Much appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    If you see someone using Sidewinder or Tunnel Five, let them know that it is jeopardizing legal access from Switchbacks, through Deer Canyon, over to Tunnels. CalTrans has the budget to make it miserable for all users in that area. Please help spread the message.
    Isn't this the same methodology that's being used to absolutely no success at the top of the mesa where people are repeatedly cutting down or bypassing fencing? Is it just me or is this the definition of insanity? Whether you agree with the entitlement perspective or not, there's an equal, if not greater level of ignorance and stupidity being displayed by the government in their response. It is leading to far greater destruction than existed when it was simply a singletrack trail. They could save themselves a lot of time and money by simply leaving an uncovered path of land for people to use, even if they don't call it a trail. I have a hard time believing that would drive them below their quota of restored acreage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    Isn't this the same methodology that's being used to absolutely no success at the top of the mesa where people are repeatedly cutting down or bypassing fencing? Is it just me or is this the definition of insanity? Whether you agree with the entitlement perspective or not, there's an equal, if not greater level of ignorance and stupidity being displayed by the government in their response. It is leading to far greater destruction than existed when it was simply a singletrack trail. They could save themselves a lot of time and money by simply leaving an uncovered path of land for people to use, even if they don't call it a trail. I have a hard time believing that would drive them below their quota of restored acreage.
    It's not ignorance.

    Land managers receive input from all forms of users groups. End of the day, they listen to the group they want and make a decision.

    There's state level factors as well.

    If MTB riders aren't liked by environmental groups, if the advocacy team fighting for MTB trails isn't liked by other user groups, it's really hard for a Land Manager at any level to defend their access and use.

    Look at all the regions or trail systems that have wins. They have proven to be stewards of the land, responsible users and proven it to those who support them the least.

    On the flip side sometimes it's just pure principle and spite.

    Logic, science, proper management practices need not be applied. Some people just hate MTB use and are in a position of power.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CalaveraTrails View Post
    On the flip side sometimes it's just pure principle and spite.

    Logic, science, proper management practices need not be applied. Some people just hate MTB use and are in a position of power.
    Very true.

  6. #6
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    In the case of Del Mar Mesa and tunnels it is not a case of land managers spiteting the MTB use, but rather the MTB and Hiking crowd spiteting the government's choice to close the trail they feel entitled too.

    What boggles my mind is that they bother cutting the fence down... why not just hike a bike over it and go do your ride? If you are making the decision to ignore the trail closure, vandalizing the fence is not going to magically change the land management agencies mind about access.....
    If it does anything, it just gives the MTB community a black eye.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    What boggles my mind is that they bother cutting the fence down... why not just hike a bike over it and go do your ride?
    I agree, although I'm not sure we've confirmed it's a mountain biker doing it, have we? I know there are hikers and other trail users out there as well.

    Regardless, for every irresponsible action that's being taken by the trail users in destroying or bypassing signage and fencing, there is an equally irresponsible reaction by the rangers to extend or multiply fencing that the trail users will just continue to go around, which is magnifying the damage. It's clearly not working, and it's irresponsible on both sides for it to continue this way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I agree, although I'm not sure we've confirmed it's a mountain biker doing it, have we? I know there are hikers and other trail users out there as well.

    Regardless, for every irresponsible action that's being taken by the trail users in destroying or bypassing signage and fencing, there is an equally irresponsible reaction by the rangers to extend or multiply fencing that the trail users will just continue to go around, which is magnifying the damage. It's clearly not working, and it's irresponsible on both sides for it to continue this way.
    Given that the vast majority of the users at DMM are MTBRs the likelihood that an MTBR is responsible is high. Also, if someone makes a trail around a fence they are responsible for the additional damage to the area: Not the Ranger.

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    ^^^^This......

    If a trail is closed and a someone decides to use it, they are the problem, not the ranger or staff that is following the trails plan.
    If a trail is fenced and a user decides to cut it down, they are the problem, not the ranger or staff that has installed it to keep users out of the closed area.
    If a user cuts a new line to circumvent the closure, they are the problem, not the ranger or staff who is tasked with conserving the land.

    Users have a real disconnect on the purpose of the land here. Penasquitos and Del Mar Mesa are preserves. Recreation takes a secondary priority. There are lots of trails out there we can use. We are continually working with the City, Rangers, and other land agencies to get additional trails opened and permanently legal. There are maps that clearly identify what it open and closed. The trails plan was designed back in 2008, took a 7 years for ratification ,and was implemented in 2015. We have users that refuse to follow the plan and cut down fences and plants to gain access to what is supposed to be rehabilitated. This is more spite than anything else and 100% of the time the user that is the problem. In all of the closed areas, there are fences and signs stating it is off limits. Secondary, tertiary, and even a fourth layer of fencing has been added to impede use. I am not sure how anyone can see it as irresponsible management.

    As far as the user type, I have no problem telling everyone that Del Mar Mesa is being vandalized by a fellow mountain biker. We have narrowed some of it down to one specific user who is brilliant enough to post his Strava routes. While it is circumstantial evidence, the route he took, on the night the fences were cut, included to 15 minute stops at the very spots the fences were cut. All the evidence has been turned over to the rangers but their hands are tied as they did not witness it.

    Take a look at the closed areas. Tell me you don't see 99% of all tracks consisting of tires as opposed to shoe prints. The users are overwhelmingly riders. The majority of vandals are riders. We have the users who see the fence cut and use the trail claiming "I didn't know". Um, the fence with the hole it it you just rode through wasn't a big enough clue? Maybe that sign you passed that said "Area closed for rehabilitation" wasn't clear enough? Was the map at the trail heads not obvious? I fully believe users know what is and is not open. Many just don't care and others take the "head in the sand" approach. Neither is helping.

    The damage out there has gotten so bad that Big Brother is coming. Live video surveillance will be starting shortly. This is not a threat, it is happening. It will not be a surprise to see identity of the first violator. Any odds on the user type? It is sad to say that this is the reality out on the mesa but the Rangers are responsible for keeping certain areas closed per mitigation agreements. This is a non-negotiable item. The hammer is dropping.
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  10. #10
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    Release the Strava data to the public. Let the stewards of the land sort this out.
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    Have you had a 1 on 1 conversation with the "known" person? Have you personally discussed the implications of the damage they are doing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Users have a real disconnect on the purpose of the land here.
    I don't think there's a disconnect on the purpose of the land at all. The disconnect is how people believe a preserve should be managed. There a preserves all over the country that allow people to recreate on them in harmony with the plants and animals that live there. CDFW's own mission statement says that they are here to manage the resources for the "use and enjoyment by the public". There are enough people around to remember when CDFW didn't pay any attention to this area, and guess what, the plants and animals existed there perfectly fine. The presence of the animals has been in decline due to the housing explosion, not the narrow single-track trails that we use. And no, you will never convince me or most of us that because of the explosion of housing we need to completely stay out of that area and leave it to the animals. I guess I'm one of the "entitled" users you guys can't shut up about.

    While I couldn't care less about the fences, I do care greatly about the ecosystem out there. In fact, the fences they put up contradict one of the main arguments conservationists have about trails cutting off migratory paths that the animals use. You think a 2-3 ft wide single-track cuts off a migratory path, what do you think a chain-link fence is going to do? Even the wood fences are a greater impediment to large animals than a single-track trail. I mountain bike partly because I like to get out in nature and be part of it. I've been doing it on the DMM for many years. I have seen the destruction that's been caused by the construction of the fences, and subsequent go-arounds, and I know that if they had left well-enough alone there wouldn't be nearly as much destruction up there right now as there is. There's probably a total of 2 fences that have been built up there that haven't had a go-around created.

    You guys are pawns of the CDFW and rangers, blaming it completely on the MTB community that you claim to represent, and not holding them accountable for the poor management and mitigation tactics they are using that allows the land to continue to be destroyed. I said it higher up in this chain and I'll say it again, it's insane to continue to use the same tactics to try and keep people of the trails that haven't been working for the last 10 years. In fact, I encourage them to use live video monitoring! Most of us realized years ago that they need better forms of monitoring and enforcement to keep people off of the trails they don't want them to be on, as opposed to fostering the continued destruction of the land through the extension of fences.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    As far as the user type, I have no problem telling everyone that Del Mar Mesa is being vandalized by a fellow mountain biker. We have narrowed some of it down to one specific user who is brilliant enough to post his Strava routes. While it is circumstantial evidence, the route he took, on the night the fences were cut, included to 15 minute stops at the very spots the fences were cut. All the evidence has been turned over to the rangers but their hands are tied as they did not witness it.
    wow, that trail user is a moron if he tracked and publicly uploaded and broadcasted his movements.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I don't think there's a disconnect on the purpose of the land at all. The disconnect is how people believe a preserve should be managed. There a preserves all over the country that allow people to recreate on them in harmony with the plants and animals that live there. CDFW's own mission statement says that they are here to manage the resources for the "use and enjoyment by the public". There are enough people around to remember when CDFW didn't pay any attention to this area, and guess what, the plants and animals existed there perfectly fine. The presence of the animals has been in decline due to the housing explosion, not the narrow single-track trails that we use. And no, you will never convince me or most of us that because of the explosion of housing we need to completely stay out of that area and leave it to the animals. I guess I'm one of the "entitled" users you guys can't shut up about.

    While I couldn't care less about the fences, I do care greatly about the ecosystem out there. In fact, the fences they put up contradict one of the main arguments conservationists have about trails cutting off migratory paths that the animals use. You think a 2-3 ft wide single-track cuts off a migratory path, what do you think a chain-link fence is going to do? Even the wood fences are a greater impediment to large animals than a single-track trail. I mountain bike partly because I like to get out in nature and be part of it. I've been doing it on the DMM for many years. I have seen the destruction that's been caused by the construction of the fences, and subsequent go-arounds, and I know that if they had left well-enough alone there wouldn't be nearly as much destruction up there right now as there is. There's probably a total of 2 fences that have been built up there that haven't had a go-around created.

    You guys are pawns of the CDFW and rangers, blaming it completely on the MTB community that you claim to represent, and not holding them accountable for the poor management and mitigation tactics they are using that allows the land to continue to be destroyed. I said it higher up in this chain and I'll say it again, it's insane to continue to use the same tactics to try and keep people of the trails that haven't been working for the last 10 years. In fact, I encourage them to use live video monitoring! Most of us realized years ago that they need better forms of monitoring and enforcement to keep people off of the trails they don't want them to be on, as opposed to fostering the continued destruction of the land through the extension of fences.
    I agree with your sentiment, CDFW has a horrible track record of "protecting the environment", but unfortunately in the society and government we live under the only way to make meaningful change is through long drawn-out and painful government processes. As Matt Mentioned some of the new trails opening up now have been in the works for half a decade.... very painful, very slow.

    As technology gets better it will become easier for the Rangers to catch the Vandalizum and then prosecute accordingly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boulder Pilot View Post
    Release the Strava data to the public. Let the stewards of the land sort this out.
    Due to liable and slander laws, I am gonna pass on this. Might work for some but I am going to take a bit safer route.

    Quote Originally Posted by 325racer View Post
    Have you had a 1 on 1 conversation with the "known" person? Have you personally discussed the implications of the damage they are doing?
    He has been contacted via Strava. I don't personally know him or where he resides. He denied everything but the cutting problem stopped shortly after, at least for a while.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    He has been contacted via Strava. I don't personally know him or where he resides. He denied everything but the cutting problem stopped shortly after, at least for a while.
    Maybe he will actually take it to heart and stop then. In cases like this it is generally only 1 or 2 people causing the issue.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    Due to liable and slander laws, I am gonna pass on this. Might work for some but I am going to take a bit safer route.



    He has been contacted via Strava. I don't personally know him or where he resides. He denied everything but the cutting problem stopped shortly after, at least for a while.
    I think I may have met the guy at some point. I remember not too long after I moved here meeting a guy who bragged about taking the fences down as well as riding the trails at night to avoid rangers. I remember being a bit taken aback to meet someone my own age engaging in such juvenile behavior.
    . . . . . . . .

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dseybert View Post
    I don't think there's a disconnect on the purpose of the land at all. The disconnect is how people believe a preserve should be managed. There a preserves all over the country that allow people to recreate on them in harmony with the plants and animals that live there. CDFW's own mission statement says that they are here to manage the resources for the "use and enjoyment by the public". There are enough people around to remember when CDFW didn't pay any attention to this area, and guess what, the plants and animals existed there perfectly fine. The presence of the animals has been in decline due to the housing explosion, not the narrow single-track trails that we use. And no, you will never convince me or most of us that because of the explosion of housing we need to completely stay out of that area and leave it to the animals. I guess I'm one of the "entitled" users you guys can't shut up about.

    While I couldn't care less about the fences, I do care greatly about the ecosystem out there. In fact, the fences they put up contradict one of the main arguments conservationists have about trails cutting off migratory paths that the animals use. You think a 2-3 ft wide single-track cuts off a migratory path, what do you think a chain-link fence is going to do? Even the wood fences are a greater impediment to large animals than a single-track trail. I mountain bike partly because I like to get out in nature and be part of it. I've been doing it on the DMM for many years. I have seen the destruction that's been caused by the construction of the fences, and subsequent go-arounds, and I know that if they had left well-enough alone there wouldn't be nearly as much destruction up there right now as there is. There's probably a total of 2 fences that have been built up there that haven't had a go-around created.

    You guys are pawns of the CDFW and rangers, blaming it completely on the MTB community that you claim to represent, and not holding them accountable for the poor management and mitigation tactics they are using that allows the land to continue to be destroyed. I said it higher up in this chain and I'll say it again, it's insane to continue to use the same tactics to try and keep people of the trails that haven't been working for the last 10 years. In fact, I encourage them to use live video monitoring! Most of us realized years ago that they need better forms of monitoring and enforcement to keep people off of the trails they don't want them to be on, as opposed to fostering the continued destruction of the land through the extension of fences.
    Excellent post. I'm not a DMM regular (maybe ride there 3-4 times a year) and don't know the area well. I just follow my friends around when we ride there.

    As far as enforcement goes, I can tell you the police department is SWAMPED nowadays as their staffing is deplorable for a city this size. They won't be putting misdemeanor vandalism investigations on the forefront anytime soon. Even if they did, the penalties nowadays are minimal but I guess community service is scary enough.
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    Rode the new trail last night. I'll miss threading the needle next to the creek, and wondering if the trail survived after it rained but the new reroute is good. All the new plants should look good in a couple of years once they have filled in. Saw a few groups of riders on the mesa but not many bike tracks on Deer Creek and Switchbacks. I imagine that will change as word gets out that it's open. Any plans to remove the barbed wire fencing the previous property owner put up last year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    Given that the vast majority of the users at DMM are MTBRs the likelihood that an MTBR is responsible is high. Also, if someone makes a trail around a fence they are responsible for the additional damage to the area: Not the Ranger.
    I actually think a small and possibly very small percentage of DMM riders have even heard of MTBR, just from a random sampling of conversations on the trails over the years.
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    Is Switchbacks open again? MTB Project says it's closed but that report was 56 days ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Is Switchbacks open again? MTB Project says it's closed but that report was 56 days ago.
    Yep, it’s open. I actually don’t think Switchbacks ever closed, it was just a dead end at the bottom with the Deer Canyon closure.


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    ^Thanks!
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  24. #24
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    It's odd down there. Why does native vegetation need an irrigation system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    It's odd down there. Why does native vegetation need an irrigation system?

    The mitigation system is crazy. Caltrans destroys a wetland area in PB building a bridge so to mitigate the habitat damage in PB the City uses Highway funds (SANDAG) to buy Deer Canyon east and Caltrans digs out the canyon to create a new wetland where there wasn't one before and when they are all done they declare it sensitive habit, surround it with a fence and close off access to the public.

    Because they are technically creating a new wetland habitat where there wasn't one before they have to install irrigation.

    This same mitigation process is what resulted in the closing of most of the trails at DMM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    It's odd down there. Why does native vegetation need an irrigation system?
    The original native habitat grew over hundreds if not thousands of years. It could take decades to see propagation of new plants in an area. All of San Diego was rolling hills of Chaparral, Oak, Sycamore, Lemonade Berry (not official name), and other shrubbery/ground cover.

    Once it was ripped out, farmed, and then abandoned, non-natives and invasive took hold. As hardy as the native are, getting them started, and keeping the habitat robust enough to keep the invasive, out will take help. In the "wild" world, the mortality rate of new plantings are so high that you would never see the area return to its natural habitat in yours or several other's lifetimes. All of it is hand planted and very exposed to the elements. As the plants mature, the roots will deepen, helping them survive deer feeding on them. The trees will grow taller, getting the canopy higher to survive a ground fire and provide the shade to some shade dependent plants. Basically they are trying to jump start the ecosystem in a short amount of time.

    The irrigation you see will be active for 5 years to help accelerate the reintroduction of the hand planted seedlings and saplings to a point they can survive on their own. Once it is complete, CalTans will remove the lines and it will look much like the rest of the valley to the west. That was completely rehabilitated about 8 years ago.

    For now, it looks odd, kind of like a brand new park being installed. It is all recycled water so there is no drinking water being used in the area. It appears they have also graded the land to help the stream seek a more central path if there is enough water. The whole valley is a riparian area so it will be interesting to see what happens if we get a really wet season this year.

    For now, just know that we get a front row seat to watch it all unfold, assuming that interests you. If not, take a picture of it now, and come back in 5-7 years. it won't look anything like it does now and you will be hard pressed to tell there were huge excavators in there tearing it all to hell.
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    They've done that ^^ in some parts of San Clemente Canyon, Rose Canyon and Tecolote Canyon a few years ago as well. They're probably getting close to removing the irrigation in those areas. Makes a big difference in getting the native vegetation to grow back more quickly.

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    Nature takes care of itself. Evolution occurs. The planet changes on its own. Forcing change in hopes of a restoration is little more than a drain of funds to support what a handful of people think is the "right" thing.

    Don't believe me? Kev M has pictures of mission trails from 2003 following the big fire that left it as charred earth. It's recovered. It's rehabilitated. The slow growth plants aren't as big as they were in 2002 but it's all there. Even the Ambrosia.

    I'm selfish though and a mountain biker who believes the world revolves around me though, I don't no nuthin bout no science. I just think using recycled water to plant "native" vegetation to keep out the "invasive plants" is about as silly as you can get. If there are invasive plants taking over and humans are trying to stop that... you're f-ing with nature and in the end, usually... bad things happen with that approach.

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    The brush burned for the 2003 Cedar fire had recovered very well, you are correct. The reason it did was the surface structure (stalks and leaves) burn but the root balls remain. It is from that ball where the rejuvenation happens. Having dug enough of those out if the ground that are bigger than 3 basketballs, it is easy to see why areas bounce back without human intervention. It was a natural area to begin with.

    The areas that were planted were stripped of all life to be used as a farm field of tomatoes and beans. Once abandoned, there was no native vegetation left to recover. Humans caused the problem here by sanitizing the land and they are now trying to rectify the issue by reintroducing what was mechanically stripped out. It has nothing to do with evolution or climate change. Sometimes we can take care of our self created mess.
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    ^ well said.

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    too much to be said on this from me. Best of luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
    , I don't no nuthin bout no science. I just think ....
    Then stop running the mouth and let the people who are educated speak.

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    Rode switchbacks up today and took the route past the pond back to the gate that was cleared off poison ivy. Construction looks like crap but I bet it'll be awesome once it grows in. Stoked to get this trail back (for good)!

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tfinator View Post
    Then stop running the mouth and let the people who are educated speak.

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    ^ well said.
    Ditto. Bankerboy is spot on with his fire ecology knowledge.

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocd View Post
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    You're welcome.


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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    The areas that were planted were stripped of all life to be used as a farm field of tomatoes and beans. Once abandoned, there was no native vegetation left to recover. Humans caused the problem here by sanitizing the land and they are now trying to rectify the issue by reintroducing what was mechanically stripped out. It has nothing to do with evolution or climate change. Sometimes we can take care of our self created mess.
    YUP! This is the story for about 50% of the acreage in CHER, plus it is covered with tons of leftover farming trash.... No "recovery" was ever done for that land and it is covered in non-native habitat.
    Ride Bikes, Drink Craft Beer, Repeat.

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  38. #38
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    Threads filled with drama in PQ/DMM is why don't ride there anymore. Last time I did about 3 months ago, Google maps was kind enough to remind me it had been 2 years since the last time. After that last ride and the user BS that ensued, I'll go ride somewhere else. I'll enjoy drama free rides and you can have one less rider here.
    Wait until they toss a road over to Park Village and the pristine habitat will not be an issue then
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Threads filled with drama in PQ/DMM is why don't ride there anymore. Last time I did about 3 months ago, Google maps was kind enough to remind me it had been 2 years since the last time. After that last ride and the user BS that ensued, I'll go ride somewhere else. I'll enjoy drama free rides and you can have one less rider here.
    Wait until they toss a road over to Park Village and the pristine habitat will not be an issue then
    Then it'll become an important "wildlife migration route"under the road, and CDFG will
    close it to everyone.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    Then it'll become an important "wildlife migration route"under the road, and CDFG will
    close it to everyone.
    Bankerboy can/will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Rhodes Crossing eliminates a wildlife corridor or two but Tax dollars are always more important when making decisions.

    It's all a long term scam.
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Bankerboy can/will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Rhodes Crossing eliminates a wildlife corridor or two but Tax dollars are always more important when making decisions.

    It's all a long term scam.
    Someone else gets it.


    Trusting Sandag to be the leader in rehabilitating land... yeah. See the issue here is... yeah... that

    But really my only issue here was the initial tone and threat of the post. Overall we know 95% of riders are cool. It's saddening to read the threats and warnings. It's a draconian approach that turns people off. Well, at least it turns me off. Makes me laugh though, reminds me of mall cops flexin

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    Bankerboy can/will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Rhodes Crossing eliminates a wildlife corridor or two but Tax dollars are always more important when making decisions.

    It's all a long term scam.
    Deer Canyon Trail Reroute Open and LEGAL!!!!-build-out.jpg

    Knowing your boundaries and zones will be the best way to determine the use of the land. The land that is Rhodes Crossing and also Merge 56 (open corridor, red circle) have been zoned for development for more that 30 years. There were no deals, boundary changes, tax scams, or acquisition of land they did not already own and have the right to develop. The properties were zoned long before the majority of riders even knew there were trails there.

    Neither of the developments are a reduction in the agreed upon wildlife corridors nor an encroachment of the Del Mar Mesa. While the trail going across will be little more than a DG sidewalk, much like the one along the side of the roads on Del Mar Mesa, it creates a needed link.

    If you really want to know some history, Camino Del Sur will reach down to Park Village from the 56. Originally, there was going to be a bridge that crossed the PQ canyon over to Camino Del Sur on the Mira Mesa side. It would look a bit like mini version of the 805 crossing Mission Valley. That idea was officially fought and abandoned decades ago, so don't get worried about it.

    San Diego is going to continue to lose undeveloped space to the need for houses. If nobody gets out in front of it and try to preserve and create trail, this pointless argument is going to happen again and again and again.......
    The world does not revolve around you but your actions impact us all!

  43. #43
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    Wow Planned for 30 years

    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post


    Knowing your boundaries and zones will be the best way to determine the use of the land. The land that is Rhodes Crossing and also Merge 56 (open corridor, red circle) have been zoned for development for more that 30 years. There were no deals, boundary changes, tax scams, or acquisition of land they did not already own and have the right to develop. The properties were zoned long before the majority of riders even knew there were trails there.

    Neither of the developments are a reduction in the agreed upon wildlife corridors nor an encroachment of the Del Mar Mesa. While the trail going across will be little more than a DG sidewalk, much like the one along the side of the roads on Del Mar Mesa, it creates a needed link.

    If you really want to know some history, Camino Del Sur will reach down to Park Village from the 56. Originally, there was going to be a bridge that crossed the PQ canyon over to Camino Del Sur on the Mira Mesa side. It would look a bit like mini version of the 805 crossing Mission Valley. That idea was officially fought and abandoned decades ago, so don't get worried about it.

    San Diego is going to continue to lose undeveloped space to the need for houses. If nobody gets out in front of it and try to preserve and create trail, this pointless argument is going to happen again and again and again.......

    Planned for 30 years! Tell that to the native plants and animals that have been living there for thousands and thousands of years.

    Just because some developer got it on the books long ago when no one cared doesn't make it right. Why are you arguing in defense of the habitat destroyers that are removing access to trails?

    It would be so much better to see SDMBA representatives like yourself take a stronger pro environmental view, rather than supporting the developers and habitat mitigators who are destroying habitat and removing public access to trails.

    Surfrider foundation is a good example of what SDMBA could be like.

  44. #44
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    In my limited involvement with SDMBA, I have noted how tirelessly Bankerboy goes to bat for SDMBA. This is time consuming and hard work. I applaud Bankerboy for his efforts to make PQ and BM better places. With my extra time, I choose to improve the Mt. Laguna Rec Area. Thanks again to Bankerboy.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by old school 27 View Post

    Surfrider foundation is a good example of what SDMBA could be like.
    Are you sure? They are purely for conservation and will sacrifice recreation for that goal.

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  46. #46
    CEB
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    Del Mar mesa and Rncho Pene.... meh. You locals there have a good thing going. Enjoy.

  47. #47
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    This sort of discussion and these issues are so much part of local trail riding. Roadies have that on us guys.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Kim View Post
    This sort of discussion and these issues are so much part of local trail riding. Roadies have that on us guys.
    I'd rather complain about trails and risk a ticket than shave my legs and get hit by a car

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Mama View Post
    I'd rather complain about trails and risk a ticket than shave my legs and get hit by a car
    When you wreck offroad, the chances of getting run over by a bus are very small.
    Mountain bikers, hikers and horseback riders are not the enemy. Bulldozers are the enemy.

  50. #50
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    All true, except my legs are still hairy. I'm a reckless cyclist without bounds.

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