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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That will stay up for about 7 minutes. Good luck closing those trails.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    That habitat is so sensitive that they cut down the trees and run a tractor over the dirt mounds. This PC/political/developer/BS is getting to be too much to handle. What a frigging joke
    agreed.

    this will be interesting.
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  2. #102
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    The dumb thing about that pic is that everything I see behind the sign are all invasives.

    If they heavily signed the coastal sage and not the eucalyptus perhaps they'd steer users away from the sensitive stuff. Sigh . . .

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodster View Post
    The dumb thing about that pic is that everything I see behind the sign are all invasives.

    If they heavily signed the coastal sage and not the eucalyptus perhaps they'd steer users away from the sensitive stuff. Sigh . . .
    An even dumber thing is considering Coastal Sage to be sensitive..... if there is a more hardly plant that can live in the Coastal Desert we call home I have yet to find it... Coastal Sage and the majority of what grows out in Calavera and all of San Diego is anything but Sensitive. It can live on little water, be trampled by horses, people and bikes and still spring back to life.... Stuff is hard to kill.
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  4. #104
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    I was out there this morning. The sign is still up but it's specifically to keep people from going north up towards the water tank from behind the high school. The trail going up to the east that I've always taken has no signage. Speaking of the tank, I hadn't ridden up to it in a few months and it's overgrown going up and circling it which adds a lil' more challenge as some of the rocky sections are obscured.
    Last edited by k2rider1964; 06-27-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I also noticed a new trail that goes down to the left after you circle about 1/2 the tank.......
    This is part of the reason we have so much attention now. New trails going in every direction.

    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    That will stay up for about 7 minutes. Good luck closing those trails.
    Exactly. Good luck.
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    The trail going up to the east that I've always taken has no signage.
    Haha, there was a sign there
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The City of Carlsbad in North San Diego County (California) is currently in the process of hiring some full time rangers to patrol the Carlsbad City parks as well as some state land owned by Fish n Game, this will be the first time any sort of enforcement is scheduled to be a regular thing. The Rangers will supposedly have the ability to fine people. Up until now the only presence was a volunteer ranger group that worked for the city that was all bark and no bite. The "purpose" being given to the public right now is to clean up homeless camps (I have never seen such camps in my riding area) and keep hikers/bikers/equestrian riders out of certain "preservation" area's.

    I have no idea if they will target e-bikes, but I am sure I will have the opportunity to speak to them once they have a true presence on the trails and ask about it. I am not able to make the City Council meetings where this stuff is being discussed since they are having the meetings at 9am mid-week...... sorta unfair.
    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    They didn't "hire" anybody. They are taking two of their community service officers and re-assigning them to this Ranger detail. I know because they had to go thru bike training last week and a friend of mine led the training. Rangers can issue citations but they have no true "law enforcement" powers. Until they get some legal, legitimate signage up *that stays up*, no citations they write, if that's the plan, will hold up in court.
    Taken from a discussion about e-bike poaching here:
    http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/polic...s-1049182.html

    So essentially the "new enforcement" being discussed is not really new enforcement?
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  9. #109
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  10. #110
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    That's new since Tuesday so yeah, if you ride by that sign and the rangers see you, I'd say a citation would probably hold up in court. We'll have to see how long the sign stays put. There are so many entry points into Calavera, I'm not sure how they are going to be able to enforce it....I can think of 2-3 others to get up from that area just off the top of my head.
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  11. #111
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    IT looks like on social media the step up jump down in that area is destroyed now. Any other mods?
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

  12. #112
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    yeah that is new since Tuesday....
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  13. #113
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    How goes the fight guys? Any updates?

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ihatton929 View Post
    How goes the fight guys? Any updates?
    Nothing has changed, still business as usual.
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  15. #115
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    Looks like room on that post for a "free firewood" sign.
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  16. #116
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    If we took the wood,
    what would "they" block
    the trail with?

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    If we took the wood,
    what would "they" block
    the trail with?
    More likely that wood gets turned into a feature or becomes the base for a jump......


    This is what the posted sign near the high school entrance looks like as of yesterday afternoon. I left it as I Found it.


    Calaveras in Carlsbad.-calavera-sign.jpg

    The sign that was near the downed trees is completely missing now.
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  18. #118
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    I heard from Roger that there were
    Carlsbad PD on quads at Calaveras
    on Wednesday. He said they were near
    the water tower and the perimeter roads
    in that area.
    Also saw on instagram a reference to being
    chased by a Ranger.

  19. #119
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    I was out there Wednesday morning. Rode all over except for by the lake and didn't see any PD. I also didn't see any signs anywhere but I came in by the church.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    I heard from Roger that there were
    Carlsbad PD on quads at Calaveras
    on Wednesday. He said they were near
    the water tower and the perimeter roads
    in that area.
    Also saw on instagram a reference to being
    chased by a Ranger.
    I was out there last night from 4:30 to 6 and didn't see a single sign on the route I rode (I did not go to the tank) and as posted previously, all the signs I previously had seen posted on here were gone. Just as long as I don't go past any legally posted signs, I'm not worried about getting a ticket.
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    I heard from Roger that there were Carlsbad PD on quads at Calaveras on Wednesday.
    I guess the "sensitive" environment is only harmed by feet or 2 skinny tires... big fat Quad tires being pushed by a 40-50hp ICE motor are not harmful?


    Holy crap the irony is amazing.

    If the PD, Fish n Game or whomever want to get the message out properly, go out there on foot and just talk to people.... don't ride Quads around. That will just piss the masses off.
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  22. #122
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    Went by the high school at lunch today, where normally on a friday would be almost weekend level crowded there were was only one vehicle, a sheriff parked there. Hadn't been seeing anyone over that side from the back 40 last couple of weeks.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    Went by the high school at lunch today, where normally on a friday would be almost weekend level crowded there were was only one vehicle, a sheriff parked there. Hadn't been seeing anyone over that side from the back 40 last couple of weeks.
    Did the Sheriff have a Quad or a trailer for one? Or was it just a patrol car? There is a legal entrance to Calavera and that is legal trail parking.
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  24. #124
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    Rode by this afternoon on my way home. Passed around 5:20pm, a few cars lined up and some guys riding up the hill into the preserve.

    No Sheriff.
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  25. #125
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    Carlsbad Update

    August 24, 2017

    I have received a number of emails from folks lately and wanted to provide an update on progress on Calaveras officially known as Carlsbad Highlands Ecological Reserve (CHER). We have had several meetings with California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW), the owner and land manager of CHER, to talk about how to move forward. I want to be clear that currently there are no legal trails within CHER outside of the two fire roads within the property and hikers are the only user group allowed on those trails.


    SDMBA’s goal from the onset of this project is to come to a reasonable compromise with CDFW on public access within the Reserve. At this point we have produced and shared maps with CDFW, these maps do not contain trail priorities, but rather all impacts on the property. We are attempting to first discuss zones within CHER that CDFW would find appropriate for trails. From there SDMBA believes the best way forward is to organize a public forum where trail users can provide their own feedback on priorities within the Reserve.


    Since our last presentation to the community in Carlsbad on June 14, we have held several meetings with CDFW including all local San Diego Supervisors within the office, the regional director for Southern California, and even been in correspondence to the Director of CDFW in Sacramento. We also had a meeting with Senator Bates to discuss this issue with myself and some local residents. SDMBA’s President, Kevin Loomis, walked the property with the Reserve Manager recently as well and attempted to highlight the urban pressures on this property. SDMBA has also engaged with the City of Carlsbad at several levels to make it known we would take significant issue with the City of Carlsbad providing enforcement on CDFW’s property.


    I do not want to make any promises. This has been and will continue to be a slow process. CDFW has committed to a partnership with SDMBA to attempt to find a solution to the problem on this property. But it is important to note how many eyes are on this process and we recently became aware of a letter written by a coalition of prominent conservationists in San Diego warning against unfettered access to preserved lands by mountain bikers. The seriousness of this letter is significant and I would encourage you to read it here.


    Many of you are asking what is the status of enforcement on the property and although I cannot answer that question for you definitively, CDFW has not enjoyed the increased scrutiny that was brought on them recently and has taken little action on the property since. The City of Carlsbad is also wary of stepping into the bees nest at CHER by using their new ranger program to provide enforcement for the State.


    We will continue to work towards a durable solution at CHER and keep the public in the loop on all negotiations and changes. We all have a stake in this process and all share responsibility. The damage to the property, and the habitat is significant at this point. Further trail building and destruction of habitat will most likely lead to further enforcement. If you have any concerns to report, please send along notes and/or photos as appropriate.

    SDMBA believes there is a solution to be found between CDFW, City of Carlsbad, conservation groups, mountain bikers and the public. This can only be accomplished through community buy in and local stewardship.


    Ben Stone

    SDMBA Vice President
    bens@sdmba.com

  26. #126
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  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Thank for the update.

    Are the new rangers out patrolling/ticketing for offenses around the actual Lake Calavera where the City of Carlsbad manages the property?

  28. #128
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    I talked to one of the Rangers yesterday.
    We talked for about half an hour. He doesn't
    seem to be out for Mountain Bikers. He knew
    way less than me about the conflicts and issues
    on Carlsbad, Fish and Game, and the private land
    than I do. A good thing!
    He said as long as he doesn't see someone coming
    out of a "closed trail ", there is nothing he's going
    to do.
    I asked him about riding on Fish and Game land
    and he said it's okay as long as you're on the trail?
    As far as I'm concerned, nothing has changed. There
    is no way of enforcement since there are no signs,
    fencing or pressure from land management right now.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    Are the new rangers out patrolling/ticketing for offenses around the actual Lake Calavera where the City of Carlsbad manages the property?
    The only rangers I have ever seen "patrolling" around the lake are volunteers and have no authority to do anything but talk to people and ask them to stay on the trails....


    That letter posted claims to represent 25k people... From where exactly? Not from Carlsbad.
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  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The only rangers I have ever seen "patrolling" around the lake are volunteers and have no authority to do anything but talk to people and ask them to stay on the trails....


    That letter posted claims to represent 25k people... From where exactly? Not from Carlsbad.

    Carlsbad hired 2 Rangers to patrol Carlsbad parks, beaches,
    and open spaces They can write warnings and tickets and call
    for back-up.
    The one I talked to said they are going to try to get out
    to the lake once a day.

    I couldn't find any info on the WHCC on the inter web.
    Must not be that important of a coalition.......................

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Carlsbad hired 2 Rangers to patrol Carlsbad parks, beaches,
    and open spaces They can write warnings and tickets and call
    for back-up.
    The one I talked to said they are going to try to get out
    to the lake once a day.

    I couldn't find any info on the WHCC on the inter web.
    Must not be that important of a coalition.......................
    once a day... okay. that will change nothing.
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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Carlsbad hired 2 Rangers to patrol Carlsbad parks, beaches,
    and open spaces They can write warnings and tickets and call
    for back-up.
    The one I talked to said they are going to try to get out
    to the lake once a day.

    I couldn't find any info on the WHCC on the inter web.
    Must not be that important of a coalition.......................
    They are actually re-assigned Community Service Officers and Carlsbad is using grant money to pay for them. One of my ex-work partners was responsible fro their bike training.
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  33. #133
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    hopefully they give out some tickets to people with dogs off leash, not cleaning up after ones dog and running with 2 headphones in... Those are the three biggest issues in Calavera at the moment.


    Also maybe find and cite the moron I saw smoking a cigar out there a month ago...... yep, up on the big grassy field area near the house line...
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    The only rangers I have ever seen "patrolling" around the lake are volunteers and have no authority to do anything but talk to people and ask them to stay on the trails....


    That letter posted claims to represent 25k people... From where exactly? Not from Carlsbad.
    I noticed Frank Landis and Diane Nygaard on the signer list of that letter, two complete whack jobs. She has completely radicalized the Preserve Calavera with the See Air Uh Club mantra; no bikes, no bikes, no bikes, horses OK, people tolerable except illegals who can walk anywhere(not to mention the climate scam as well). They are probably counting Clubbers from SoCal and a few of the other represented organizations in the 25K number.

    Friend of mine riding the Lake side today ran into a ranger by Serpentine told him they were gonna concrete barricade the Eco zone whatever that means. Not waiting for anymore letters or meetings apparently.
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    There are quite a few bike stores in the area. Isnt it in their best interest to be involved?

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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by socal_jack View Post
    Friend of mine riding the Lake side today ran into a ranger by Serpentine told him they were gonna concrete barricade the Eco zone whatever that means. Not waiting for anymore letters or meetings apparently.
    You mean the way half that area is already cement barricaded? All they are doing with that trash is making it harder for wildlife to move around the preserve. That Cement K Rail is a joke.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    You mean the way half that area is already cement barricaded? All they are doing with that trash is making it harder for wildlife to move around the preserve. That Cement K Rail is a joke.
    Yeah like where the DFW fenced in those small preserves on DMM, as if.
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  38. #138
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    Last night there must have been 25-30 bikes out riding the trails, was super busy. That was the most people I have seen in a while....

    Also meant some users were not being too smart and they are riding up sections that are decidedly down only and groups parking in the middle of trails....
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  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    Also meant some users were not being too smart and they are riding up sections that are decidedly down only and groups parking in the middle of trails....
    "decidedly"? Who decided? I wasn't out there last night but have never seen any signs that state "downhill traffic only". The only trails I can think of that this applies to might be the jumpline down from the pad. Not the smartest way to ride up but people have been doing it for years because there used to be so few options. I agree there are now better ways to ride up.

    Since I started riding there many years ago, I have seen several trails that were generally trails to ride UP have been trashed by the "enduro bro" crowd that has to skid around every corner while riding downhill.
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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    "decidedly"? Who decided? I wasn't out there last night but have never seen any signs that state "downhill traffic only". The only trails I can think of that this applies to might be the jumpline down from the pad. Not the smartest way to ride up but people have been doing it for years because there used to be so few options. I agree there are now better ways to ride up.

    Since I started riding there many years ago, I have seen several trails that were generally trails to ride UP have been trashed by the "enduro bro" crowd that has to skid around every corner while riding downhill.
    I decided... lol...

    But in all seriousness, they are too steep and obviously designed for one way traffic.

    Considering none of the trails out there are "legal" at the moment signs would not mean anything. But they are not meant for uphill riding, that should be obvious to anyone, when you are riding uphill into deep berms that you cannot carry any uphill speed to use, you are going the wrong way.

    Strava Trail Names of what I would consider down only"
    Rick
    Brown Angel
    Flow (jump line)
    Horsemans
    Flea vs Mite (dragon tail)
    Mules Enduro
    Hot Sauce (she's so spicy)
    Prom (Car Wash lower) - Car Wash upper would be fine to climb as it is basically a wide double track.
    Peterson's Plunge

    I would never ride up any of those for fear of causing a head on collision.

    There are many climbing options that was well suited for 2 way traffic, good visibility, no jumps or drops or berms, etc.
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  41. #141
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    Water tower today.


  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Water tower today.

    Wow! Is that law enforcement? That's just crazy. MTB'ers must be enemas of the state.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Water tower today.

    What were they doing? Where they CDFW Trucks? A lot of different agencies have white trucks including SDGE & San Diego Water Authority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    What were they doing? Where they CDFW Trucks? A lot of different agencies have white trucks including SDGE & San Diego Water Authority.
    Most likely they were from the San Diego Water Authority since that specific part of the "park" is managed by them and not by the City or by the State.
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  45. #145
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    "Pristine"

    Calaveras in Carlsbad.-20180619_185658-01-sml.jpeg
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  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    "Pristine"

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    Is that on the service road south of the volcano? Also, you can complain all you want to about environmental laws: But in recent years they are the only thing that has saved some land in San Diego from development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R38 View Post
    Is that on the service road south of the volcano? Also, you can complain all you want to about environmental laws: But in recent years they are the only thing that has saved some land in San Diego from development.
    No, this is on the water districts property along with a bunch of bags of gravel, some big metal bins, a forklift and a few other items. I think they are working on a project with the water tower there. This is all right next to the big K Rail wall that extends across much of the preserve.

    Environmental laws are great when they include public use, when they try to ban all humans from entering then I have a problem with them.
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  48. #148
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    Ride it until they pave it, then keep on riding it.

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    Was out riding today at Calaveras and CDFW had a large crew at Calaveras. Putting up new signs coming down the volcano, boarding up the cave, and 2 rangers out on the trails "warning" riders of the $1k fine..... Such a joke tax paying dollars go to this.... What a waste of time.

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    Who, if anyone, is legally capable of officially designating which trails "DH-only"?
    It would be nice to know.
    Should there be signage involved, like there was at one brief period of time on Los Gatos?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    Who, if anyone, is legally capable of officially designating which trails "DH-only"?
    It would be nice to know.
    Should there be signage involved, like there was at one brief period of time on Los Gatos?
    Nobody is since they are technically not legal trails

  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockit View Post
    Was out riding today at Calaveras and CDFW had a large crew at Calaveras. Putting up new signs coming down the volcano, boarding up the cave, and 2 rangers out on the trails "warning" riders of the $1k fine..... Such a joke tax paying dollars go to this.... What a waste of time.
    Are they trying to shut down the Volcano?

  53. #153
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    Were they posting those paper signs? I remember years ago they put a big boulder in the entrance of the cave.

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    I was out there on Friday and again today. I don't normally ride anywhere near the volcano but I didn't see any DFG vehicles, LE personnel of any kind or new signage or fencing. I don't even know where the cave is or that one existed.
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    They were putting new signage down the volcano, on the trail that runs along the cliff. These were permanent signs, not paper. A crew of about 4 of them doing that. 2 other rangers were patrolling giving their typical $1k fine speech to everyone. According to them, the Volcano is F&G land, we are not allow on it. The city owns the trails surrounding the volcano on the Westside? by the lake. The guy caught me crossing the white barrier at the bottom of the hill below volcano, before the single track climb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockit View Post
    They were putting new signage down the volcano, on the trail that runs along the cliff. These were permanent signs, not paper. A crew of about 4 of them doing that. 2 other rangers were patrolling giving their typical $1k fine speech to everyone. According to them, the Volcano is F&G land, we are not allow on it. The city owns the trails surrounding the volcano on the Westside? by the lake. The guy caught me crossing the white barrier at the bottom of the hill below volcano, before the single track climb.
    The funny thing is that area is probably the worst part out there in regards to the management of the land. One has to think WHY is this happening now (again...)? Who instructed them and for what outcome? Is there fish & game on the volcano to manage? Not too sure there's fish in the lake. In the big picture I could see other areas close by that could use their "expertise".

    BTW- the K rails are a nice look to the natural beauty of the land
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    Are “they” closing the volcano
    to hikers also or just “us”?

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    I'll answer my own question
    I called the City of Carlsbad
    Parks department and had a chat
    with Kasha. She said the volcano
    is owned by Fish and Game. Carlsbad
    has nothing to do with the land. I told
    her that it is in the city's jurisdiction and
    that the city need to do something. Hundreds
    of people hike the volcano weekly, how
    are they going to enforce the closure?????


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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    I'll answer my own question
    I called the City of Carlsbad
    Parks department and had a chat
    with Kasha. She said the volcano
    is owned by Fish and Game. Carlsbad
    has nothing to do with the land. I told
    her that it is in the city's jurisdiction and
    that the city need to do something. Hundreds
    of people hike the volcano weekly, how
    are they going to enforce the closure?????

    There not... They are going to do the same thing they've done for years. Come out every 3-4 months and give their warning of $1k fines, put up signs, take down jumps, etc. Its just silly, such a waste of time. There's no way they can keep people off their land unless they hire a fulltime guard or put up fencing. Both are expensive and I don't see it happening. The F&G officials are typically always on the fireroad that runs along the base of the Volcano, just avoid them if you can. What's really frustratiing is he told me "mountain biking" is prohibited on their land, I didn't see him stopping the 2 other groups of hikers out there....

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    Yes the Volcano is Fish and Game so they have the ability to "close" it if they want to. Problem is that it sits in the middle of 50K people who have and will continue to use it for recreation and exercise. F&G's mandate is to manage lands for protection of habitat and not recreation. Both side lose in this situation.

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    Don’t fall off the volcano!


    At least they don’t drive huge trucks
    the day after a week long rain............



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    How does this happen in California? The commercial developers and state will just turn the entire coast line into residential property and retail. Places to sit around and eat and people watch with no engagement to the wilderness. The average person in LA and SD could not care less about land stewardship and conservation. This is a fantastic model in Washington: https://www.evergreenmtb.org/ They work closely with the state DNR.

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by madamfunk View Post
    How does this happen in California? The commercial developers and state will just turn the entire coast line into residential property and retail. Places to sit around and eat and people watch with no engagement to the wilderness. The average person in LA and SD could not care less about land stewardship and conservation. This is a fantastic model in Washington: https://www.evergreenmtb.org/ They work closely with the state DNR.
    There is a lot to unpack here, but in short there are rules and there is money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Clyde View Post
    Phone numbers and email.

    Mayor Matt Hall-matt.hall@carlsbadca.gov
    760-801-8055 (mobile)

    Council Member Mark Packard-council@carlsbadca.gov
    760-729-2668 (home)

    Council Member Keith Blackburn-keith.blackburn@carlsbadca.gov
    760-420-0279 (mobile)

    Council Member Michael Schumacher-michael.schumacher@carlsbadca.gov
    760-930-2050 (home)

    Cori Schumacher-cori.schumacher@carlsbadca.gov
    760-450-8863 (mobile)
    Big Clyde on target w this regardless if i ride that trail or not...

  65. #165
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    Hiking is allowed on two of the fireroads through the section that is managed by CDFW. https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Lands/Pl...d-Highlands-ER

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockit View Post
    There not... They are going to do the same thing they've done for years. Come out every 3-4 months and give their warning of $1k fines, put up signs, take down jumps, etc. Its just silly, such a waste of time. There's no way they can keep people off their land unless they hire a fulltime guard or put up fencing. Both are expensive and I don't see it happening. The F&G officials are typically always on the fireroad that runs along the base of the Volcano, just avoid them if you can. What's really frustratiing is he told me "mountain biking" is prohibited on their land, I didn't see him stopping the 2 other groups of hikers out there....
    Hiking is allowed on two of the fireroads through the section that is managed by CDFW.
    https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Lands/Pl...d-Highlands-ER

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    I am glad to see the trail angels fixed up the berms on Rick and Brown Angel, also good to see the trail braiding on Brown Angel addressed.

    I am not too happy to see the kids building giant gap jumps on "flow". Those are the features that get kids hurt, have the life flight choppers called in and get the attention of all the authorities....
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    Got stopped on the trail at the base of the Volcano yesterday by a Gabrielle with Fish & Game (in plain clothes). Informed me that riding there was illegal & can carry a $1000 fine. He said the trail is open to every other user group, hikers, runners, bird watchers, etc....but closed to bikes because the are considered mechanized vehicles.

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    California is run and controlled (death grip) by the dumbest people in America. They only care about their "special interest" groups that got them elected or appointed.

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    BTW, I don't think it was mentioned anywhere in this thread, up to here, but CA F&G has been officially morphed into CA F&W, meaning Wildlife. What's the big deal in that? We all should know, but by changing "Game" to "Wildlife" they are hinting at a massive expansion of jurisdiction for the agency. F&G had reasonable priorities. Check fishing and hunting permits, cite poachers.

    Now they can do the same thing with trail users. But you can't fight fire with fire if you have any expectations of making real progress. Maybe many of you don't know this, but it has not been so long ago that bikes were banned from the entire N. side trail in LPQ.
    This was due to a collusion of two politically opposed groups, the Sierra Club, and the equestrian groups centered around LPQ and DMM.
    It was only through a decade of effort on the part of cyclist groups, with at least one area bike shop pitching in with material support, that the N. side trail was reopened and expanded a bit more.

    Preaching to the Choir about Calaveras is not going to make one bit of difference.

    Learn from the strategies deployed by the likes of Ebasil, R.Julien, and many others, and look to the successes of them, as well as Salespunk and BB in Black Mountains' trail plan.

    Intelligence and sweat equity and patience are a few things all these guys have in common. Not needlessly using this issue by using the Volcano as a soapbox.

    Youse are in it for the long haul, no matter what your political "ideology" or "feelings" are. Those things are useless.
    Working together with a rational plan is the ticket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wigout View Post
    Got stopped on the trail at the base of the Volcano yesterday by a Gabrielle with Fish & Game (in plain clothes). Informed me that riding there was illegal & can carry a $1000 fine. He said the trail is open to every other user group, hikers, runners, bird watchers, etc....but closed to bikes because the are considered mechanized vehicles.
    thankfully for us.
    The volcano trail is closed
    to hikers.

    When the talking stops and they
    start enforcing and ticketing is
    when it gets bad.
    Last edited by Big Clyde; 02-04-2019 at 08:51 AM.

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    The mandate for F&W is preservation. NO user groups are allowed on most properties unless expressly allowed such as the fire road exception at Cala. I do not believe that the volcano has any such exemption. In their charter it states that the public will get enjoyment from the "IDEA" that the lands are being preserved and they should only be observed from outside the boundaries. Recreation is expressly forbidden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wigout View Post
    Got stopped on the trail at the base of the Volcano yesterday by a Gabrielle with Fish & Game (in plain clothes). Informed me that riding there was illegal & can carry a $1000 fine. He said the trail is open to every other user group, hikers, runners, bird watchers, etc....but closed to bikes because the are considered mechanized vehicles.
    Same thing happened to me Wednesday morning. There were three of them. The guy in plain clothes that must be Gabrielle explained to me that the trail I was on was on DFW land and that they would be putting up signs and the fine would be $1k. I explained that I got to where I was by following a sign that had an arrow and said "trail".

  74. #174
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    The trails around the Volcano have a sign on them put there by the city of Carlsbad describing the geology of the Volcano... it is an open trail at the moment and until there are signs that expressly state no mechanized travel, they will remain open.

    The trick Fish n Game will need is a way to enforce 24/7.

    They won't be able to do so.

    Things will stay the same as they have always been.
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    Hey everyone... I just want to share my experience... and any knowledge I have.

    I ride Calavera 2-3 times a week, usually in the mornings about 9 and leave before 11.

    I have ran into Gabe the Gardner 5-7 times, since right before thanksgiving through the rest of the year. It is always the same thing "you can't mtb here and it's a Misdemeanor and $1000 fine" and I always ask him who he is and why he is here and basically play dumb and I am really nice to him and make him give me his business card every single time... From my experience he comes in the gate by the high school around 10:15 a.m.

    I have no idea what time he leaves... I ran into him about 4 Wednesdays in a row in November and December. So I don't know if Wednesdays are his main Calavera day or if that was just coincidence.

    One time I ran into at the bottom of bottles and rocks and he must have saw me coming down because he was parked at the bottom and blocking it with his truck. He filmed me with his phone and "let me" peddle back to the church where I told him I was parked. I went up to the pad to warn 5 other riders where he was, he proceeded to off road over plants by the k rails destroying the "precious Preserve" he is suppose to manage and come towards the pad, so I booked it back to the lake area.

    The contact at the city that directly works with him is (she is really nice and helpful and really wants to work something out with the mountain bikers, but CDFW will not do anything with the City of Carlsbad)

    Rosanne Humphreys
    rosanne.humphrey@carlsbadca.gov

    Gabe the Gardner contact is: (maybe we can drop him an email and express interest in working out a solutions before they keep trying to close Calavera)

    Gabriel Peñaflor
    Environmental Scientist
    California Department of Fish and Wildlife
    gabriel.penaflor@wildlife.ca.gov

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    So the environmental scientist is out there in his truck running over bushes...... nice.
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  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony San Diego View Post
    Hey everyone... I just want to share my experience... and any knowledge I have.

    I ride Calavera 2-3 times a week, usually in the mornings about 9 and leave before 11.

    I have ran into Gabe the Gardner 5-7 times, since right before thanksgiving through the rest of the year. It is always the same thing "you can't mtb here and it's a Misdemeanor and $1000 fine" and I always ask him who he is and why he is here and basically play dumb and I am really nice to him and make him give me his business card every single time... From my experience he comes in the gate by the high school around 10:15 a.m.

    I have no idea what time he leaves... I ran into him about 4 Wednesdays in a row in November and December. So I don't know if Wednesdays are his main Calavera day or if that was just coincidence.

    One time I ran into at the bottom of bottles and rocks and he must have saw me coming down because he was parked at the bottom and blocking it with his truck. He filmed me with his phone and "let me" peddle back to the church where I told him I was parked. I went up to the pad to warn 5 other riders where he was, he proceeded to off road over plants by the k rails destroying the "precious Preserve" he is suppose to manage and come towards the pad, so I booked it back to the lake area.

    The contact at the city that directly works with him is (she is really nice and helpful and really wants to work something out with the mountain bikers, but CDFW will not do anything with the City of Carlsbad)

    Rosanne Humphreys
    rosanne.humphrey@carlsbadca.gov

    Gabe the Gardner contact is: (maybe we can drop him an email and express interest in working out a solutions before they keep trying to close Calavera)

    Gabriel Peñaflor
    Environmental Scientist
    California Department of Fish and Wildlife
    gabriel.penaflor@wildlife.ca.gov
    If people are really serious about finding a solution for Calaveras riders need too:

    1. Stop building illegal trails
    2. Stop building jumps/ berms on trails
    3. Stop doing doing any obvious trail maintenace in areas that are closed
    4. Stop vandalizing CDFW Signs
    5. Stop posting on soical media about rides in closed areas or trail work that is going on in closed areas

    Also, if we are trying to work with Gabe maybe we should drop the whole Gabe the Gardner Thing? You guys understand that CDFW reads these posts correct?

    Just a thought.

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    I would say the best thing is to just stop riding there all together and go somewhere else.
    I know, not what you wanted to hear but until we figure out the legalities I would avoid the place.
    The fireroad by skyhaven and the lake is still legal though, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    I would say the best thing is to just stop riding there all together and go somewhere else.
    I know, not what you wanted to hear but until we figure out the legalities I would avoid the place.
    The fireroad by skyhaven and the lake is still legal though, right?
    I would say the best thing is to ride it until they pave it. Go ride and enjoy the natural beauty of the pristine wonderland. Rinse & repeat
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider127 View Post
    i would say the best thing is to ride it until they pave it. Go ride and enjoy the natural beauty of the pristine wonderland. Rinse & repeat

    yup!

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    If people stop riding there it will never be reopened. It is simply mismanagement of public lands and not a user issue. Calaveras was put into the wrong jurisdiction based on the population base and location. Very similar to Ted's in Poway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salespunk View Post
    If people stop riding there it will never be reopened. It is simply mismanagement of public lands and not a user issue. Calaveras was put into the wrong jurisdiction based on the population base and location. Very similar to Ted's in Poway.
    I absolutely agree... we should encourage people to ride there more not less.

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    Who is going to "figure out" the legalities?
    Fish and Game don't and won't play by their
    rules. They just make it up as they go.

    The trails around the lake are full of hikers
    and dogs. Plus not much milage there.

    Lets do laps around the lake, that will piss
    off a bunch of people!

    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    I would say the best thing is to ride it until they pave it. Go ride and enjoy the natural beauty of the pristine wonderland. Rinse & repeat
    I get what you're saying but I say no. I'll ride somewhere better. The trails are fun but there are better trails else where...

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    Quote Originally Posted by wjphillips View Post
    I get what you're saying but I say no. I'll ride somewhere better. The trails are fun but there are better trails else where...

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    Not when you live within 5 miles of Calavera. For people that live up here and want to get in a quick ride before or after work, this is the ONLY place. As far as weekend rides when you have more time, I agree and our group is usually somewhere else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Not when you live within 5 miles of Calavera. For people that live up here and want to get in a quick ride before or after work, this is the ONLY place. As far as weekend rides when you have more time, I agree and our group is usually somewhere else.
    This, and not to mention you can literally see the Ocean from the trails. when it gets hot in the summer at all the "better" riding spots, Calavera still has a nice ocean breeze.

    Calavera is hundreds(not exactly sure on the exact number) of Acres of prime outdoor recreational hiking, biking and equestrian trails surrounded on all sides by Hundreds of thousands of residents who view the entire preserve as a place to go and play.

    Calavera is full of trash left from the old Farming days. This trash includes PVC Pipping buried in the ground and broken apart in many locations. Miles and miles of half buried plastic drip lines. Old Cement pads and other features from the former farms. nearly a mile of Concrete K-Rail dividing the preserve in half. A bunch of old telephone poles setup as some sort of fencing from days past, this wood is soaked with oil and leaks into the ground. A large amount of old metal, bed frames, large metal drums, etc, all of which are rusting into the ground. Thousands of "non-native" plant species encroaching on the "native" plant-life, things like Pampas Grass, Palm Trees, Eucalyptus tress, etc.

    I really hope CDFW is reading this and other posts online about access to Calavera. As long as all this trash and such is out there, them and the sierra club can "claim" that Mountain Bikers are ruining the pristine nature of the place all they want and it will be screaming into the wind. Calavera is not some Pristine nature preserve that needs to be saved from Human interaction. It is the last large open space right smack dab in the middle of Urban San Diego, it will be used and nothing short of 24/7 enforcement is going to keep people out of there. CDFW is doing themselves and the City of Carlsbad a huge disservice by taking a no access stance, and are ignorant if they honestly think mountain biking has led to some sort of degradation of the preserve. The best move forward for CDFW is to actively engage with the public, engage with SDMBA and create a sustainable trails plan. Make actual trails with actual trail signs and the MTB community will step up and self police the additional trail building.

    I have been riding out there for 11 years now, just about once a week and I have observed the following:
    * Coastal Sage is one of the most indestructible and drought resistant plants in the world. I watched the area survive the worst drought in California history and now with some rain the last few years the Sage is all alive and robust and growing and spreading.
    * Animal Life is thriving - I regularly see Coyote, Rabbits, Road Runners, Hawks, Falcons, Kangaroo Mice, Garder, King and Rattle Snakes.

    I will say this, no new trails are needed out there and those who want to build new trails should not do so.
    Existing trails could use a large amount of love, things like water bars and other features to keep them in a maintainable state
    Stop building giant Gap jumps, when riders get hurt and the life-flight chopper has to come and take them away it only bring negative attention to the area.

    CDFW needs to stop wasting time and effort on Calavera. They need to setup a meeting with SDMBA and work out a sustainable trails plan. No other option is going to work for them. Without SDMBA at the helm nothing will change in Calavera. Over the course of the last decade the story has been the same, CDFW shows up for a few days, tears down some jumps, puts up a few signs. Within hours the signs are gone, and within days the jumps are back. 99% of the users out there have no idea CDFW was even there and don't have any idea that the area is technically "closed".

    And those who do know that it is "closed" are practicing civil disobedience to prove a point to CDFW that their policies are wrong and failing.
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  87. #187
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    I went out for a run today to see how the trails are holding up after all this rain. Just as I figured there is a lot of water and mud on the trails. Some of the south trails have decent creeks running through them. A few more days of sun like today and we should be looking good.

    To my disappointment there was two or three groups out at lunch on bikes. There is a lot of ruts and tire marks because of it. Some of those area we will be dealing with all year long once they dry Growing up in the NW, I thought it goes without saying to let trails dry before riding. Am i the only one bothered by this?

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinmckay View Post
    Am i the only one bothered by this?
    No, but you can't fix stupid.

  89. #189
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    "Do not burn yourself out. Be as I am- a reluctant enthusiast....a part time crusader, a half-hearted fanatic. Save the other half of yourselves and your lives for pleasure and adventure. It is not enough to fight for the West; it is even more important to enjoy it. While you can. While it's still here. So get out there and hunt and fish and mess around with your friends, ramble out yonder and explore the forests, encounter the grizz, climb the mountains, bag the peaks, run the rivers, breathe deep of that sweet yet lucid air, sit quietly for a while and contemplate the precious stillness, that lovely, mysterious and awesome space. Enjoy yourselves, keep the brain in your head firmly attached to the body, the body active and alive, and I promise you this much; I promise you this one sweet victory over our enemies, over those deskbound men with their hearts in a safe deposit box and their eyes hypnotized by desk calculators. I promise you this: You will outlive the bastards."* Abbey, Edward.

    Or, "Ride it, till they pave it."

    IMO, there's nowhere else that's within a 1/2 hour trip from most places in N. County that has a little bit of everything. Smooth, sweeping (legal) trails east of the volcanic plug, jump lines (way beyond my ability/willingness), challenging chunk (my favorite, off the west of the water tower) and tons of XC goodness.

  90. #190
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    They need to back off and get real. Allow MTB'ers to repair the existing trails to maintain a long lasting network for all. Close down some of the redundant strings of parallel trails. Keep an area with features for those who enjoy taking the risk (with reasonable size). Keep the chunk stuff chunky. Allow well build and long lasting creek crossings, clearing back the brush, and most importantly, haul out all the trash & hazards out there.
    Have pride in the trail system and allow all users to enjoy it. Keeping people out will not be a easy task. It will cost lots of money they don't have and will create ever lasting push-back from the thousands of users
    "We'll ride it until they pave it."

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  91. #191
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    Upset We are our own worst enemies

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtrider127 View Post
    They need to back off and get real. Allow MTB'ers to repair the existing trails to maintain a long lasting network for all. Close down some of the redundant strings of parallel trails. Keep an area with features for those who enjoy taking the risk (with reasonable size). Keep the chunk stuff chunky. Allow well build and long lasting creek crossings, clearing back the brush, and most importantly, haul out all the trash & hazards out there.
    Have pride in the trail system and allow all users to enjoy it. Keeping people out will not be a easy task. It will cost lots of money they don't have and will create ever lasting push-back from the thousands of users
    I agree that a management plan like this would be great. We could have done this in the 20 years up till now.

    The collective we as mtn bikers didn't do that. We kept cutting trails everywhich way. If left unpoliced it would be a greenless sand and mud pit in all directions. The management enetities just don't have the budget or the manpower so once on their radar the result is predictable.

    If people just thought about that next cut or feature - could it be the straw?

    San Diego is challenged though no thought to recreation outside the ocean and they keep letting expensive resorts take that.
    I can't wait till they put condos here. Said no one ever.

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