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  1. #1
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    This women hates MTB riders!!

    Go to www.savethesummit.com Check out this crazy women. She has all her facts wrong about us. She says she talks with my Jim.? Not sure where she gets her information,but we need to let her know that this is Bull sh*%#!~.I have been told she is part of the ELF.
    There just another terrorist group. My son said that there has been calls from these people non-stop along with a few threats, as I take them to be left on his message recorder about the Tahoe-Sierra 100 and Royal Gorge? Hell we are just using there parking lot?
    ( I have been out allot as my Father is ill and has very little time left so my son has been fill ing me in) What has this world coming to?. Do we not have the right to ride? What's up with these nuts. If you know my me at all, I am coming out with guns a "blazing".
    There fight is with the Forest service and the Royal Gorge and we are now we are in her cross hairs. I here she lives in Palo Alto . This person is a lawyer Named "Kathryn Gray"a very very bad women and she hates us very much. Can anyone shed some light about this" ELF" group? I am thinking this savethesummit group is apart of it? Not sure.Just what people up at the summit have been telling me.
    I know this for sure see needs to stop slandering us ( A false report circulated to damage the reputation of a person)
    She has givin out my phone number to the Sierra Club and other groups to call .
    Let's give them what they want?" Hell is coming and I am coming with it"
    great movie "Tombstone"
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    As mentioned previously, I would suggest the best remedy for this woman's disease is to ignore her. No need to scratch that itch, it'll only get worse.

  3. #3
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    I know this has to be really frustrating but it might be better to delete this thread.

  4. #4
    OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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    I've been reading her occasional rants...

    While I agree that repeatedly riding on wet/ muddy trails the occasional foray onto wet/ muddy trails isn't bad, in particular since most of the riding was done on roads... in any case, here is a bit of her rant:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathryn Gray
    That mud you see on rider's goggles, bikes and garments after they've churned through the rain, or used trails soon after precipitation used to be the surface of a hiking path or trail- and while it will certainly wash off of the bike rider and his gear, the loss to the trail in terms of erosion will not be so easily remedied.
    If the biggest problem the Sierra had to worry about was being destroyed by dirt carried off by errant MTB riders then it must be in great shape indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by more interesting stuff
    He also told me he "knew where I lived." About that time I became aware that there was an entire strand on a mountain biking forum discussing how to respond to my first YubaNet editorial, "Troubled Trails on Donner Summit." They'd decided not to "flame" me, such a relief, but I must say, as a newbie in questioning mountain bike riders' rights to ride absolutely anywhere hikers hike and equestrians ride, I was a little intimidated. Oh, was that what they were trying to do?

    Here's what motivates me, despite the glimpse of bullying tactics on the part of mountain bike extremists.
    Umm... wow I guess we're a scary crew.
    The wilderness loses when a 700 entrant mountain biking race is allowed, without serious inquiry into the impacts on trails, historical resources, wildlife habitat, wildlife migration routes, late season foraging areas, and the consequences to fish and amphibians from the erosion consequent to a race grinding over 100 miles of Sierra Nevada trails.
    I'd understood there was only 20-30 miles of singletrack and that the rest was forest roads.

    Hey Jim, Are you really getting 700 riders for this event? That would be great indeed.

  5. #5
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    I see the econazi site is linking to your site as a .php?

    http://globalbiorhythmevents.com/ind...d=19&Itemid=32

    You should trap referrals from their site and forward them to a page stating that you have given in to them and decided to cancel the race. [snicker, snicker]

    Edit: Don't click the link to her site from here. Right click it and choose, "copy link location", then manually paste it into the location bar and click, "go" instead. Otherwise she'll be able to see references from mtbr.com in her log files. No need to feed the fire.

    Kathryn, if you're reading this, quit being such a twit. Live and let live. Hike the PCT, no bikes there. Focus on all the landowners bulldozing roads if you're worried about "your summit". The whole f'n sierra was dug up by gold miners for 100 years. Not one stone was left unturned. STFU.
    Last edited by Fast Eddy; 03-27-2008 at 10:08 PM.

  6. #6
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    It would be interesting to see what the local businesses -- specifically those who will profit or benefit from this event -- think about one of their neighbors in the community trying to deflect business from them for reasons that can only be described as personal and vindictive between two unrelated parties.

    These people are pros at playing the victim, therefore it would do no good to attempt an offensive hand. The opposite approach would be more effective.

  7. #7
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    I wonder if MVD and K. G. have been shacking up. They're both crazy enough to be together. Otherwise, you gotta admire the complete lack of logical argumentation.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  8. #8
    Fireball in the Night
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    Focus on all the landowners bulldozing roads if you're worried about "your summit".
    You know the difference between a Developer and a Conservationist?
    A developer wants to build a home in the woods.
    A conservationist already owns one.
    Rexxx
    everyone drives a Used Car

  9. #9
    zon
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    Hey Jim you have our support. Don't let this eco-terrorist / eco-extremest / eco-nazi / NIMBY / it's my wilderness / nut-job get to you.
    It burns me up that a few extremists like her think that the public lands are for the public until it conflicts with her ideas of who the public is. If the public is tax paying citizens that fund the precious lands she worships then I will go out on a limb and say that most mountain bikers fall into that category.
    Why she doesn't think we have a right to access NF lands is beyond my comprehension as a tax paying citizen, a hiker, a equestrian, and a mountain biker.
    I think it boils down to she doesn't have a life and has an extreme guilt complex so this "cause" of hers to "champion" the perceived protection of her beloved Forrest's gives her meaning in an otherwise pointless life.
    Keep up the good fight for all users to have access to all public lands.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


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  10. #10
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    The ELF is the Earth Liberation Front. They have been called domestic terrorists by our government. They destroy property, often by arson. They are opposed to developments, gas guzzlers and general destruction of the environment.

    "The ELF gained national attention for a series of actions which earned them the label of eco-terrorists,[11] and one of the top domestic terror threats in the United States.[9] This came after the burning of a ski resort in Vail, Colorado, on October 19th, costing $12 million.[38] In a communique to the press, the ELF said:[39]
    Vail, Inc. is already the largest ski operation in North America and now wants to expand even further. The 12 miles of roads and 885 acres of clearcuts will ruin the last, best lynx habitat in the state. Putting profits ahead of Colorado's wildlife will not be tolerated."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front

    I dunno the person you are talking about, but generally if people have ties to the ELF, they don't let other people know about it.
    Take a look at and consider "liking" our VAR Facebook and VAR Instagram pages.

  11. #11
    zon
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance
    As mentioned previously, I would suggest the best remedy for this woman's disease is to ignore her. No need to scratch that itch, it'll only get worse.

    Problem is you can't ignore people like that. I've seen to many instances where the squeaky hinge gets the grease. If all the powers that be hear is her shrill voice they eventually cave to it as being the voice of the public. We need to be 'noisier" and use the system the same way they do.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyboy
    Go to www.savethesummit.com Check out this crazy women. She has all her facts wrong about us. She says she talks with my Jim.? Not sure where she gets her information,but we need to let her know that this is Bull sh*%#!~.I have been told she is part of the ELF.
    There just another terrorist group. My son said that there has been calls from these people non-stop along with a few threats, as I take them to be left on his message recorder about the Tahoe-Sierra 100 and Royal Gorge? Hell we are just using there parking lot?
    ( I have been out allot as my Father is ill and has very little time left so my son has been fill ing me in) What has this world coming to?. Do we not have the right to ride? What's up with these nuts. If you know my me at all, I am coming out with guns a "blazing".
    There fight is with the Forest service and the Royal Gorge and we are now we are in her cross hairs. I here she lives in Palo Alto . This person is a lawyer Named "Kathryn Gray"a very very bad women and she hates us very much. Can anyone shed some light about this" ELF" group? I am thinking this savethesummit group is apart of it? Not sure.Just what people up at the summit have been telling me.
    I know this for sure see needs to stop slandering us ( A false report circulated to damage the reputation of a person)
    She has givin out my phone number to the Sierra Club and other groups to call .
    Let's give them what they want?" Hell is coming and I am coming with it"
    great movie "Tombstone"
    Thanks

    Dude, I would report her to the CA Bar Association.

    http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_home.jsp

    They do not take kindly to such douchebaggery amongst their members.

    edit: I didn't find her name on there...it's either the wrong name or she's not an attorney, in which case, beat the crap out of her.

  13. #13
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    Man you'd think this woman saw a motorcycle at Waterdog or something!

    There are thousands of twits like her running around saying wheels are destroying the forests. Sounds like she is calling for her fellow extremists to pressure the county and the fire dept to disrupt your plans Jimmy. You need to to come out prepared and with lots of support. Tell us what you need Jimmy and I'm certain most of us here will respond. We got your back.

  14. #14
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    Another pull-up-the-drawbridge NIMBY type... she doesn't hate MTBs, she hates everybody for wanting to share her precious summit.

    If she really is a lawyer, "Kathryn Gray" is likely a pen name.

  15. #15
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    the domain name is by proxy. dang.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zon
    Problem is you can't ignore people like that. I've seen to many instances where the squeaky hinge gets the grease. If all the powers that be hear is her shrill voice they eventually cave to it as being the voice of the public. We need to be 'noisier" and use the system the same way they do.
    I agree about the squeaky hinge (from many years of tech support) but my approach would be more one of Judo than Karate. Instead of sending her nasty emails and threatening her, and trying to "come down" on her with the "wrath of the mountain biking community" (which she is probably hoping to provoke), we should use the proper routes that are already present to handle the situation.

    We need to contact the local businesses and let them know someone in their midst is working against their own interests. This also brings in tax money to the local government and parks, so I am sure they are not interested in her attempting to divert her hatred from the developers she is fighting onto the MTB community and events.

    We need to ignore the knee-jerk reaction to emailing or calling her or her folks and venting. This would only lead to validating her accusations, however justified we might feel our actions would be.

  17. #17
    zon
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance
    I agree about the squeaky hinge (from many years of tech support) but my approach would be more one of Judo than Karate. Instead of sending her nasty emails and threatening her, and trying to "come down" on her with the "wrath of the mountain biking community" (which she is probably hoping to provoke), we should use the proper routes that are already present to handle the situation.

    We need to contact the local businesses and let them know someone in their midst is working against their own interests. This also brings in tax money to the local government and parks, so I am sure they are not interested in her attempting to divert her hatred from the developers she is fighting onto the MTB community and events.

    We need to ignore the knee-jerk reaction to emailing or calling her or her folks and venting. This would only lead to validating her accusations, however justified we might feel our actions would be.
    Good points, and I agree we need to work within the system to counteract her efforts. But make no mistake, we do need to be working the system and have a presence.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes
    Maybe, but Traceroute gives us some information..

    8 border1.pc1-bbnet1.nyj001.pnap.net (216.52.95.9) 85.422 ms 85.559 ms 87.245 ms
    9 * * *
    10 * * *
    11 * * *
    12 * * *
    13 * * *
    14 * * *
    15 * * *
    16 * * register-1.border1.nyj001.pnap.net (74.201.254.66) 85.860 ms !X
    17 * * *
    18 * * *

    It looks like pnap.net is possibly her ISP.

    Google search revealed this:
    http://yubanet.com/regional/Regional...ner-Summit.php

    "Kathryn Gray is a Donner Summit resident"

    But if it's ELF, it makes sense that it's an alias. They run a forum, but all the profiles are disabled.
    http://www.savedonnersummit.org/phpBB2/

    what does all that mean? sorry guys i am not savvy.

  19. #19
    zon
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    Well from the Fence Donner Summit website there is a forum post with this:

    "If you have questions or objections, Crystal Jacobsen is at this time the appropriate person to address them to; the race promoter will be meeting with her this Tuesday, March 18. cjacobse@placer.ca.gov "

    So,, time to send Crystal a polite, succinct, no flaming letter of support for the Tahoe 100.
    ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocipus
    Man you'd think this woman saw a motorcycle at Waterdog or something!

    There are thousands of twits like her running around saying wheels are destroying the forests. Sounds like she is calling for her fellow extremists to pressure the county and the fire dept to disrupt your plans Jimmy. You need to to come out prepared and with lots of support. Tell us what you need Jimmy and I'm certain most of us here will respond. We got your back.
    If you look at the 'membership' page of her site, she and one other guy are really the only members. She's just raving to herself. Harmless crazy old cat lady AFAIC.

    MVD indeed...

  21. #21
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    hmmm...seems like it would be pretty easy to infiltrate that group and gather some intel.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy
    If you look at the 'membership' page of her site, she and one other guy are really the only members.
    oh... here i thougth it was whole buncha nut bags

  23. #23
    OOOOOOOh Gee Are Eee
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    Quote Originally Posted by velocipus
    oh... here i thougth it was whole buncha nut bags
    It's one with a ton of time and resources. She has multiple sites, beyond just the one. I found 4 that I am certain hare run by her or closely affiliated, all with almost identical content. There are another half dozen or so other sites that have very similar content but no mentioned of MTB. Most of the angst is in reference to the developments up there.

    There are hers:
    http://www.saveserenelakes.org/
    http://www.saveoursummit.org/
    http://www.savedonnersummit.org/
    http://www.savethesummit.com/

    Crazy. I guess they figure if they have 10 websites with different names maybe authorities will think it's a lot of people?

  24. #24
    Aquaman
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    Crazy cat lady.......lol

  25. #25
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    It May Be Time To Let It Go

    I must say at this point in time I am just letting it go. I talked with a very nice gal from the Serene lake area and she let me know this gal does not speak for anyone up there.
    She says this gal is sueing the county and anything that goes with the Rogal Gorge project. Its Ok. Let her have her fight.
    I have trails to save so we can ride. She say's that I have threatend her life on MTBR by saying that I am coming out with guns a blazing? Thats from Blazing saddles movie. May be she missed that great movie.
    Just let it go and the problem will go away. Can't wait to ride the trails.

  26. #26
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    I second that... let it go folks.

  27. #27
    hmmmm
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    I was up there last week and saw a "Save Donner Summit" bumper sticker on a prius. I was staying with a friend and saw the same sticker on someones door and asked her what it was about and she said that nobody really knows, and that only like 2 or three cars in the area has them.

    funny to get back and read this. lol

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