Wildfire blamed on pedal strike- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike

    Posted by Inyo National Forest about the Rock Creek Fire earlier this summer:

    Cause of Rock Creek Fire Determined
    The cause of the Rock Creek fire that started on August 5th has been determined. Investigators have concluded that the fire was started from a bicycle pedal strike to a rock. Conclusive evidence was found in the fire origin area that was on the Lower Rock Creek mountain bike trail. A fire ignition from this type of trigger is a testament to how dry the area is right now. All residents and visitors are asked to be extremely careful with anything that may cause a fire while you are out in the forest.

    xxx-

  2. #2
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    Ummm? Do they even make Steel pedals anymore?


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  3. #3
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    C'mon!!!!

    Need some mythbusters on this case.
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    Damn weight weenies and their magnesium pedals!

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    This is a week old, but still indicates under investigation:

    InciWeb the Incident Information System: Rock Creek Fire

    Can you share the source or at least where the determination was published?

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    Published on the Inyo National Forest Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/inyonf/

  7. #7
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    Wow, I wasn't expecting that. On the link, it says there was "conclusive evidence" of this. I would really like to see the details on that.

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    I bet it is tied to the comment period that will close shortly.

    Nothing like a good conservationist myth to drum up negativity about bicycles during a comment period. Nice work USFS!


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  9. #9
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    This definitely happened just as described - I heard about a fire that started last year because a redneck removed his huge belt buckle too quickly

    Good news is that they are not banning bikes in the area - you just have to ride one of these rigs - sweet geometry though

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  10. #10
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    When you pedal strike a rock that hard, you'll get catapulted.

    Those investigators should be handed a pedal and then asked to strike it on a rock to see if it's possible.
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  11. #11
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    Not buying it. However, if the bike in question had Magnesium pedals, then...
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  12. #12
    fc
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    Maybe it was a safety meeting.

    Could it be possible a hiker was on the mountain bike trail???

    fc
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Maybe it was a safety meeting.

    Could it be possible a hiker was on the mountain bike trail???

    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Not buying it. However, if the bike in question had Magnesium pedals, then...
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.


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  15. #15
    fc
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    More info:

    MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Fire investigators have concluded that a small wildfire in the Eastern Sierra Nevada was sparked by a bicycle pedal striking a rock.
    A U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman says Wednesday evidence found along a mountain bike trail in Inyo National Forest led investigators to determine the cause of the August 5th blaze.

    Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. The spark ignited a fire that charred 122 acres of tinder-dry grass 20 miles southeast of Mammoth Lakes.
    Butler says the finding demonstrates how dry the state's wildlands are due to the ongoing drought.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.


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    The Mg versions generally don't look any different than their Al version.
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    I ran these on my Sight for awhile
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  17. #17
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    The Mg versions generally don't look any different than their Al version.
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    I ran these on my Sight for awhile
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have both those pedals. I should try hitting them with a bigass rock.
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    We should have had at least one fire at Tamarancho by now


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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I remember these being kind of common in the 90s but I've never seen a magnesium pedal lately. Not in 10 years.
    Canfield Brothers makes magnesium pedals: Thinnest pedal platforms on the market. Never snag your pedal again!

  20. #20
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    Trans-Sylvania Epic 2014: Stage 2: Rothrock Cooper's Gap Results | Cyclingnews.com

    Race notes:

    In an unusual occurrence, a small fire broke out next to the course during the race. Some racers flew past the flames, which extended to right next to the trail, but one rider turned back to tell a photographer who he'd just passed. That photographer, Devon Balet, ran toward the fire and singlehandedly beat it out with sticks. Though he called for help from a nearby videographer a bit further up the trail, no one could hear him. By the time the fire department and forest service had responded, Balet had extinguished the flames.

    The cause of the fire is undetermined although the rangers speculated that perhaps it was caused by a spark from a rider's pedal hitting a rock.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Trans-Sylvania Epic 2014: Stage 2: Rothrock Cooper's Gap Results | Cyclingnews.com

    Race notes:

    In an unusual occurrence, a small fire broke out next to the course during the race. Some racers flew past the flames, which extended to right next to the trail, but one rider turned back to tell a photographer who he'd just passed. That photographer, Devon Balet, ran toward the fire and singlehandedly beat it out with sticks. Though he called for help from a nearby videographer a bit further up the trail, no one could hear him. By the time the fire department and forest service had responded, Balet had extinguished the flames.

    The cause of the fire is undetermined although the rangers speculated that perhaps it was caused by a spark from a rider's pedal hitting a rock.

  22. #22
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    I completely forgot about Mg pedals.


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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I have both those pedals. I should try hitting them with a bigass rock.
    I agree with yuppie!

    Do it for Science!

  24. #24
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    Yeah I always keep a pedal in my backpacking bag for starting fires... Though I guess it could happen it seems so unlikely I am having a hard time with this conclusion. I think it was caused by a smokin' hot blonde out for a hike but that's just me.

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    That sounds like compelling evidence a pedal strike occurred at that location at some time - would need more to determine if aligned with the start. If they have a piece of the pedal, a determination about type of metal is possible to see if it was possible.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    What if we rubbed Berkeley Mike and Pete together?
    ^Please, you know it's all because of my sparkling personality and that innate ability I have to light people up. I do see where you're going with the inferred friction though. j/k

  27. #27
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    I've had riders behind me at South Mountain say they saw sparks fly from my 545s hitting rocks. Seems highly unlikely that anything could catch given how short lived the event is with how little fuel is actually on the trail, but I'd guess it's in the realm of possibility.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  28. #28
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    FC, I'll one up your idea. Let's get some pedals together, I know more than a few people here are strapped, at least one of whom owns a glock, one with a Smith and Wesson, I'll loan my H&K and I'll also bring my Winchester.

    We can then all head on down to Reeds off of 101, or TargetMasters, shut the shop down for a day, line pedals and granite rocks up and take turns taking pop shots to see if we get a spark. Now all we need is someone who we're all kosher with to come and use high speed film equipment to capture things for review.

    JustSaying

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obi View Post
    FC, I'll one up your idea. Let's get some pedals together, I know more than a few people here are strapped, at least one of whom owns a glock, one with a Smith and Wesson, I'll loan my H&K and I'll also bring my Winchester.

    We can then all head on down to Reeds off of 101, or TargetMasters, shut the shop down for a day, line pedals and granite rocks up and take turns taking pop shots to see if we get a spark. Now all we need is someone who we're all kosher with to come and use high speed film equipment to capture things for review.

    JustSaying
    Great idea, but the lead is too soft (no spark, I'm betting). However, in the interest of science, get a few pedals together (one of which being Magnesium) and strike them like a match against rocks. I'm betting that Magnesium will get you a reaction.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Great idea, but the lead is too soft (no spark, I'm betting). However, in the interest of science, get a few pedals together (one of which being Magnesium) and strike them like a match against rocks. Magnesium will definitely get you a reaction.
    Ammo isn't made out of lead, it's made from graphite.

    Edit: Oh wait, that's pencils.
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    Nope

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  32. #32
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    Given the ease with which I've built fires with the little fire starter kit that comes as a block of magnesium and a striker, it would seem fairly reasonable to see this take place. Especially when you have the privilege of riding behind a knob motorcyclist with magnesium encrusted knee sliders...it leaves a damn long spark trail! Given the right conditions ... boof!
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    I think the talk to magnesium is irreverent. While it is possible a magnesium pedal started the blaze, any good pedal has steel pins which are enough to create sparks not to mention an SPD or other clipless pedal has steel parts that could also create sparks when striking a rock and in fact are the part of the pedal that strikes first.

  34. #34
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    Are they sure their physical evidence minutiae is indeed a piece of metal from a mountain bike pedal? What about a horseshoe or horseshoe nail? I bet those things hit and spark off rocks way more often than mountain bike pedals.
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  35. #35
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    I've seen sparks during night rides on rocky trails.

  36. #36
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    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.
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  37. #37
    fc
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    "Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. "

    This sounds like BS. It is possible to cause a spark but the pedal will be intact and it will not separate into chunks or shavings. It does sound better though for the 'forensic' bs report that she has the smoking gun.

    "This shaving caused the spark that ignited the fire". C'mon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.

    Are you sure? I've seen (what I'm told were) magnesium knee pucks on sport bike riders create quite the fireworks display.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Magnesium does not cause a spark. So it is not the culprit. You can ignite magnesium at three thousand degrees.
    Why do they make Magnesium fire starters then?

    https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Fir.../dp/B00EW0CG2Y

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    "Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. "

    This sounds like BS. It is possible to cause a spark but the pedal will be intact and it will not separate into chunks or shavings. It does sound better though for the 'forensic' bs report that she has the smoking gun.

    "This shaving caused the spark that ignited the fire". C'mon.
    The horse shoe comment above is more merit than this "investigation," and they're running full steel shoe/nails.

  42. #42
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    The pedal may be MG, but the pins are Steel
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  43. #43
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    I've seen sparks fly from an SPD cleat when a rider intentionally dragged his blown out shoe across a paved road on a high speed downhill. Those conditions are hard to find on the trail


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    I'm pretty sure any time the Footpeople think, sparks fly.

  45. #45
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    My understanding is that magnesium by itself does not produce a spark but will burn like hell and easily if exposed to a high temperature sparks such as that produced by flint. I used the phrase "my understanding" because I know a high percentage of MTBR posters are geniuses and I am prepared to be told how dumb I am.

  46. #46
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    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?

  47. #47
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    So IF the magnesium pedal sheared and left shavings that were then ignited by the striking of one of the pins of the pedal that could do it? I guess it comes down to how 'hot' the spark from a typical pedal 'pin' is? I would have to guess that varying metals throw sparks of varying temperatures.

    Regarding the knee pucks on motorcyclists, all I'm seeing is titanium sliders for sale...perhaps they never had magnesium in them?

    I suppose titanium pedals might do the same or better if it doesn't need an independent spark to light it as magnesium seems to (as suggested in above posts).
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    It really helps to read and understand previous posts.

    The discussion is not about cleats.

    It's about pedal strikes (key word = "pedal")
    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    No, he's not sure. Just making stuff up. Again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHJUXDOdth8
    I want to take this opportunity to extend a warm welcome to spurious and thank him for his solid contributions thus far.

    How can we line up a thread where spurious and tomcat just banter back and forth? Is there any, like, technology or something that can make that happen?

  49. #49
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob-o View Post
    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?
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  50. #50
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    *How does anyone outside of a specific few know it's actually a piece of a bike pedal? Show me.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob-o View Post
    I'm not so sure about all this pedal spark stuff. The metal found near the rock could be from Tom Cat's front brake rotor. Sucker must get red hot. Wonder if they found any teeth near by? Busted visor maybe?
    Yep solid work once again - for realz though, I did hear it was a Santa Cruz that started the fire

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    I'm just going to say I blame CHUM.

    That has about as much science as the conclusion of the cause.

    -j

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    We forgot one: Thanks a lot Obama

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  54. #54
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    Maybe the investigators wife is a horse person or a hippie hiker? Some guys will do anything to get back in good graces with the Mrs

  55. #55
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    Myth. It did not happen that way. They just cook up myths for some purpose.

    If there was a piece of pedal, it was there for a long time before. Most likely just a cigarette butt from some hiker.

  56. #56
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    Yeah magnesium doesn't spark; a steel or titanium pin in a magnesium pedal could have made a spark contacting a rock but very unlikely that the mag pedal ignited. It would have to drag on an abrading surface for a long ways to build up enough heat to ignite. Maybe bad pedal bearings?

    I wonder what kind of training that fire investigator had, like HS chemistry?

    FWIW I've TIG welded magnesium before, no big deal.
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    I wonder what kind of training that fire investigator had, like HS chemistry?
    None. But we will be hearing this freshly created myth again. Like that mythical dead snake.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    ... but very unlikely that the mag pedal ignited.
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    More info:

    MAMMOTH LAKES, Calif. (AP) — Fire investigators have concluded that a small wildfire in the Eastern Sierra Nevada was sparked by a bicycle pedal striking a rock.
    A U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman says Wednesday evidence found along a mountain bike trail in Inyo National Forest led investigators to determine the cause of the August 5th blaze.

    Kirstie Butler said investigators found a piece of the metal pedal and shaving from a rock strike in the area where the fire began on August 5. The spark ignited a fire that charred 122 acres of tinder-dry grass 20 miles southeast of Mammoth Lakes.
    Butler says the finding demonstrates how dry the state's wildlands are due to the ongoing drought.

    Wow, that's what passes for "conclusive" evidence? So basically...any trail that is near the origin of a fire could be "conclusively" caused by a pedal strike because you can definitely find chunks of pedal on pretty much any MTB trail? I hope the evidence is better/more nuanced than that.

  60. #60
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    In most venues, there are penalties for officials putting out false or misleading information. Seems that it's happened multiple times in the past year. Time for some $$$-loaded riders to get their legal team going! Someone call Oprah!!!

    Seriously though - the actual report should be public record. Additional info would either shut us up or negate their "cause." I don't see many riders wanting anything other than reality.

  61. #61
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    Quite amazing what we pay our government officials to "cook up", never seems to end the amount of BS and hysteria they will generate just to further their own agenda. How in the hell hasn't this happened say about a thousand times over to date with the successive droughts in the state an throughout the West in general since we have been riding in the woods for decades now and with a myriad of pedals to boot just shows the inanity of this PRESS RELEASE, claiming to be facts.

    I guess it must have been a WMDH, wild maniac on a DH and once again all of society is under imminent attack so of course the only prudent cause must be to ban bikers off even more trails, it's for your own good.

    The cigarette butt says it all, lets not deal with that reality ever and keep pretending it's OK to drive and smoke, hike and smoke, and once done throw that lil' puppy out the window after that last glorious drag and enjoy life while a huge forest fire gets its start and people lose their homes and lives, that apparently is OK.

    They didn't call him Smokey the Bear for nothing, too bad Smokey couldn't take a few of those USFS goons out back and have his big and burly bearly ways with 'em.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
    Aye, I added the magnesium pedal stuff as a joke but stranger things have happened. We should bring in Ace Ventura.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    Seriously though - the actual report should be public record. Additional info would either shut us up or negate their "cause." I don't see many riders wanting anything other than reality.
    USFS is a govt agency, you could probably get it with a FOIA request.

  64. #64
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    Good luck with getting anything conclusive from them. But unfortunately it will be just like the mythical Alameda snake - quoted as a true fact for posterity.
    It did not happen, it is a CYA speculation, and should always be referred as such.

  65. #65
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    There are 622 users browsing this thread. 8 members and 614 guests. I think we got someone's attention.

    This seems like an incredibly unlikely chain of events. Like something Rube Goldberg would design, or a law student would read about in torts as a replacement for Palsgraf v. LIRR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palsgr...nd_Railroad_Co.).

    Think about it. If you hit a pedal hard enough to shear off a part large enough to be identified as a bike pedal, a hit that hard would probably throw the rider, or at the very least pop your foot out. Now the rider has stopped to clip back in (or more likely collect belongings from the yard sale that resulted) and probably inspect a pedal that is no longer operable on one or both sides. And somehow we're supposed to believe that in all of this, the rider didn't notice that a spark jumped from the rock to some vegetation and started burning?

    This is sandbagging by a public agency that doesn't realize that cutting out a big user base will mean lower funding in the years down the road.

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    I'll add more fuel to the fire (damn puns - they cannot be avoided) - I have ridden that trail several times - the upper part is very smooth, fast and flowy with almost no rocks & lots of hiker traffic - the lower part is very rocky but extremely slow, chunky tech with HAB sections - so there are really no sections where you are carrying a lot of speed over rocks

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    The most likely part of a modern mountain bike to cause a fire when riding is the brake rotors.

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.
    I get paid to ride shotgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    I'll add more fuel to the fire (damn puns - they cannot be avoided) - I have ridden that trail several times - the upper part is very smooth, fast and flowy with almost no rocks & lots of hiker traffic - the lower part is very rocky but extremely slow, chunky tech with HAB sections - so there are really no sections where you are carrying a lot of speed over rocks
    You don't need speed when you have legs like this!
    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-will-cycling-make-your-legs-bigger.jpg

    And LOL @Davey!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octane View Post
    The most likely part of a modern mountain bike to cause a fire when riding is the brake rotors.

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.




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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    You don't need speed when you have legs like this!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    How do we ban a moderator?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post



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    Wow. Impressed!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    How do we ban a moderator?
    You can't muahahaha!

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    Because a split second before the pedal was applied to the rock, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Because a split second before the pedal was applied to the rock, it had been calibrated by top members of the state AND federal Department of Weights and Measures... to be dead on balls accurate!
    "...It's an industry term."

    Oh... Definite points for the "My Cousin Vinny" reference! Well played!
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  76. #76
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    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike

    Sorry if this has been posted already:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/ar...-forest-47949/


    Speaking on behalf of the Inyo National Forest, fire prevention technician Kirstie Butler told BikeRadar that, while the exact cause of many forest fires go unresolved, the evidence in this instance was definitive.

    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” Butler said.

    Investigators traced the source of the Rock Creek fire back to a single rock on a trail surrounded by cheatgrass. Cheatgrass is an invasive species in the western United States that is quick to grow back after fires. It dries out in summer, creating a fuel source for subsequent blazes.

    The day the fire started, temperatures were high, winds were moderate and humidity levels were in the single-digits — ideal conditions for wildfires.

    Marks on the rock and bits of metal indicated that a spark from a pedal strike ignited the cheatgrass.

    “It really doesn’t take much for cheatgrass to ignite. Anything could start a fire in conditions like this. It would have been like striking a flint,” Butler noted.

    According to Butler, while this may seem like an incredibly unlikely chain of events, the US Forest Service has evidence that this has happened before. She notes that sparks from chainsaws and lawn mowers are frequent causes of wildfires. To date, there have been 4,084 wildfires in California, burning a total of 150,498 acres in 2016.

    Butler, who is a mountain biker and has frequently ridden the Lower Rock Creek Trail, doesn’t believe the incident will result in trail closures to mountain bikers, nor does she view mountain bikers as more of a fire hazard than any other trail user group.

    “This is not about pointing fingers; we know it wasn’t done maliciously. We understand that mountain biking is a popular activity and we’re not trying to say that this is a reason to stop. It’s just something to be aware of,” said Butler.

  77. #77
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    Horseshoes can do the same:

    "Equine expert killed as horse shoe sparks explosion heard 30 miles away"
    Equine expert killed as horse shoe sparks explosion heard 30 miles away - Telegraph

    Flaming Steel | A Moment of Science - Indiana Public Media
    "For example, horseshoes make sparks as they gallop over a gravel path."

    "When horses, ponies and mules were used in underground coal mining operations, brass shoes and nails served to limit accidental sparks that could cause explosions."
    http://animals.mom.me/material-horseshoe-3442.html

    There's even an official listing for "horseshoe spark" in the Cal Fire "General Fire Cause Definitions"!

    http://www.fire.ca.gov/downloads/red...efinitions.pdf

    So even if this freak incident was caused by a pedal strike, equestrians are much more likely to cause such a fire - since four metal horseshoes strike the ground with each step, versus pedal strikes which are relatively rare.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Butler, who is a mountain biker and has frequently ridden the Lower Rock Creek Trail, doesn’t believe the incident will result in trail closures to mountain bikers, nor does she view mountain bikers as more of a fire hazard than any other trail user group.

    “This is not about pointing fingers; we know it wasn’t done maliciously. We understand that mountain biking is a popular activity and we’re not trying to say that this is a reason to stop. It’s just something to be aware of,” said Butler.
    This is worth reposting.

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    lol

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    It was not reported the supposed pedal in question that supposedly started the fire by supposedly striking a rock and supposedly sparking was magnesium. That bit was added to the discussion by posters of the thread...conjecture. No official info to be found on what type of pedal supposedly started the fire.
    You're correct, I had read all the posts referring to "magnesium pedals" and wrongly assumed that somebody had gotten that tidbit from the report. (which doesn't seem to be an "official report" at that) We can revisit this when the official report goes online.
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  81. #81
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    1 - 2 - 3 - 4, I declare a meme war.

    Oh, wait for it, yup, I win.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-drewberrymoretricyclefirestarterpedalmashup.jpg  


  82. #82
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TahoeBC View Post
    Why do they make Magnesium fire starters then?

    https://www.amazon.com/Magnesium-Fir.../dp/B00EW0CG2Y
    The thing that sparks is the flint, not the magnesium.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    You're the best... around...
    Is nothing ever going to keep him down?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octane View Post

    I'm not buying the "pedal" theory, and impact of that magnitude would cause the rider some damage.
    No, I've done it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  86. #86
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    The More You Know: https://www.facebook.com/TAMBAtahoe/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED (the pedal story is the third one down on their feed as of this evening)



    Btw, the guy sending it on Corral is one of the two main guys building/maintaining the Bijou Bike Park.
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    Magnesium adds to it Thats its purpose. The grass is like the flint here. It seems like a really improbable amount of things that had to happen. Interesting for sure

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by j1cham View Post
    Magnesium adds to it Thats its purpose. The grass is like the flint here. It seems like a really improbable amount of things that had to happen. Interesting for sure
    Source please, all info I see says magnesium catches a spark and burns at high temps. But as I said before I'm kind of a dumb**** compared to the average genius level of most posters on MTBR.

  89. #89
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    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” USFS Kristie Butler said.

    Let's just call this the Swiss Cheese Report. Just because it is in the realm of possibility, (like winning the lottery) doesn't mean that it did happen.

    Because a bike pedal has not been known to start a fire in our collective millions of mountain biking hours, it should take a bit more than swiss cheese to make this forest fire conclusion.

    Implications are 'forests can be shut down to bikes during hot weather' because 'bike pedals can start fires'.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    “All the holes in the Swiss cheese lined up perfectly,” USFS Kristie Butler said.

    Let's just call this the Swiss Cheese Report. Just because it is in the realm of possibility, (like winning the lottery) doesn't mean that it did happen.

    Because a bike pedal has not been known to start a fire in our collective millions of mountain biking hours, it should take a bit more than swiss cheese to make this forest fire conclusion.

    Implications are 'forests can be shut down to bikes during hot weather' because 'bike pedals can start fires'.
    I agree, this is what bugs me about it. How can they be so sure, it seems so far fetched, unless they are going to start to close when it's hot.
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  91. #91
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    At the next mtbr gathering, please add fire starting as part of the nightly shenanigans.
    .

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  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by donutnational View Post
    Source please, all info I see says magnesium catches a spark and burns at high temps. But as I said before I'm kind of a dumb**** compared to the average genius level of most posters on MTBR.
    I dont have a source. Maybe it can spark. But i base this off a mag flint stick. You shave off mag and then strike the flint to ignite the mag.yes it burns very violent too.

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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by j1cham View Post
    I dont have a source. Maybe it can spark. But i base this off a mag flint stick. You shave off mag and then strike the flint to ignite the mag.yes it burns very violent too.

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    "Flint" hasn't been real flint for a long time; that metal that gives off the sparks is technically called ferrocerium. From wiki:

    "A modern ferrocerium firesteel product is composed of an alloy of rare earth metals called mischmetal (containing approximately 50% cerium, 25% lanthanum, and small amounts of praseodymium and neodymium), plus iron and a small amount of magnesium.[2] A variety of other components are added to modify the spark and processing characteristics.[1] Most contemporary flints are hardened with 20% iron oxide and 2% magnesium oxide."

    So yes a little bit of Mg but the ersatz flint would spark just the same without it.

    Magnesium by itself won't spark when struck under normal conditions.

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  94. #94
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    It might have been my fault

    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-img_5809_medium.jpg

  95. #95
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    I found an actual demonstration of a mountain biker pedaling through rocks and actually starting a fire. Note the nature of the kindling around the very special type of flint rocks found in this part of Michigan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I found an actual demonstration of a mountain biker pedaling through rocks and actually starting a fire. Note the nature of the kindling around the very special type of flint rocks found in this part of Michigan.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Jerk
    You HAVE to watch the entire video. And like it.
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    No way, after remembering about BMX frames made of it when we we're kids in the 70s this sham by the USFS is sickening me even more.

    I had to look it up, and here is what one poster said over on the BMX museum site about the overall content, some were almost 97 percent magnesium. So we have had the ultra rowdy BMX gang (gotta love 'em, I do) crashing into practically any known object they could find back then and we still haven't seen fire break out under 20" wheels so this is a total crock of you-know-what in my opinion.

    Magnesium frame correction - BMXmuseum.com

    So either the aluminum and zinc are the elements to make sure the frame doesn't catch fire or maybe not, hmmm.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  99. #99
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    A good post from TAMBA on their Facebook Page:

    "There has been a lot of hoopla on the interwebz over this press release intended to heighten public awareness about current fire danger. Everything from absolute denial that a pedal striking a rock could spark a fire, to conspiracy theory that this was made up by the Forest Service to ban mountain bikes from trails. That saddens this moderator who also happens to be trained in fire investigations. Not only is it possible for a pedal strike to create a spark that could start a fire under the right fuel moisture and weather conditions like those that existed on the day the Rock Creek fire started, but this actually occurred in similar cheat grass fuels in Reno several years ago and was witnessed by this same moderator who was riding with the group. That happened to be a SPD pedal which is steel and capable of creating a spark against certain rock types. We talked with our friends down on the Inyo National Forest and not only was this a proper cause and origin investigation, but they had no other motive than to educate the public to be careful on hot and dry days. This was not intended to single out MTB'ers. Nearly all recreational users have been responsible for starting accidental wildfires at some point; campers, hunters, jeepers, hikers, backpackers, target shooters, etc. It is our hope that riders and all other users exercise caution when choosing to recreate on trails with light flashy fuels on hot and dry days so it's an incident that's not repeated. #smokeybearhug"

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    The USFS made no mention of magnesium. That was introduced by a poster in post #4.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...l#post12796404

    It was tongue-in-cheek but folks have been going crazy about Magnesium ever since.
    Thanks for the correction, I appreciate it.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  101. #101
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    No, definitely not a beat down by any means. Certain rock types, can we elaborate more, like was it obsidian on the mountainside and by chance it was struck just the right way? Oh how I wish we could do Castle Peak like we did in the 80s and that area to find out because XT cross country pedals then couldn't do it, this still sounds wholly implausible.
    Good friction shifting is getting hard to find nowadays....

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    Hmmm...that certainly appears to be a complete beat down of the "pedal strike can cause a spark" deniers.

    You've been served...
    Seems to be...

    Of course it's just more antidotal hyperbole that isn't backed up with real evidence.

    Which was the problem when the USFS Inyo posted this:




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    I can't think of a better place to ask: What would be the best way to make a sparkless pedal? Or: Are there plastic pedals that don't suck? And: Which existing decent pedal is least sparky [excepting plastic].

  104. #104
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    The whole "substantial evidence" and "shavings" is the problem. Why not just tell us what you found. How about a picture of the rock and the "part" of the pedal.

    When people/gov't just keeps saying the same thing without producing the evidence, the deniers/disbelievers will come out in force. Just present the evidence and put it to rest.

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    hahah. the birthers didn't shut up when shown the birth certificate, or newspaper announcements, or the fact that it didn't matter due to the mother's citizenship.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    hahah. the birthers didn't shut up when shown the birth certificate,

    Did you see a birth certificate? Or did you see a .pdf picture on a website link. (This is a yes or no question.)


    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    or newspaper announcements,
    You will not find a -paper- copy of that newspaper, or even a microfiche. Just a .jpg on the internet.


    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    or the fact that it didn't matter due to the mother's citizenship.
    I agree, it does not matter. I believe Obama is a citizen of the US. But then it does bother me that Loretta Fuddy is dead for no reason.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by spurious View Post
    Holy tin foil birther hat Batman!

    She's dead due to gravity (the ultimate cause of the plane crash) followed by cardiac arrhythmia.
    Are you referring to the first autopsy or the revised autopsy?

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudeist View Post
    I can't think of a better place to ask: What would be the best way to make a sparkless pedal? Or: Are there plastic pedals that don't suck? And: Which existing decent pedal is least sparky [excepting plastic].
    This could be a great money-maker for somebody who jumps on this quick; bronze pins in any sort of pedal should do the trick (even magnesium ones). Imagine if the the USFS, BLM and etc. mandated bronze pedal pins during the fire season!?!? Cha-ching!!!

    Big plus; bronze pins would likely only last one season at best; cha-ching again!
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    More evidence that Magnesium doesn't cause sparks

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Are you sure? I've seen (what I'm told were) magnesium knee pucks on sport bike riders create quite the fireworks display.
    If you see sparks from knee pucks, they're titanium, not magnesium.

    Alpinestars Magnesium Toe Sliders Review - Motorcycle USA

    "The Alpinestars magnesium toe sliders don’t produce sparks while making contact with the road surface, unlike titanium sliders."

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    Am I the only one that welded Ti drag bars onto my bottom bracket? Picture me rollin!

    Wildfire blamed on pedal strike-m8ipae.jpg

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by heythorp View Post
    The whole "substantial evidence" and "shavings" is the problem.
    It is an invention and it did not happen. That is why.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    It is an invention and it did not happen. That is why.
    I agree. 'Fabrication' is the technical term.

    But if someone can prove that it can actually occur or 'gasp' duplicate it, I think we are all interested. I'd love to learn and take precaution if needed.
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    Video of the Fire Damage

    This past Thursday I rode Lower Rock Creek on my way to Mammoth. Here is a POV vid of the fire damaged section of trail. Its between the first and second road crossing (not counting the trailhead)


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    If its not on Strava, it didn't happen. Nobody rode that trail on August 5th. https://www.strava.com/segments/4352179

    ;-)


    Supposedly more of the investigation report is coming out tomorrow: Cyclists incensed after bike pedal blamed in Sierra wildfire - SFGate

    "Fire prevention technician Kirstie Butler said a comprehensive investigation, which included locating a rock with a pedal scrap on it and speaking to several mountain bikers in the area at the time, revealed conclusively what caused the fire.

    Butler did not say whether the Forest Service knows who was riding the bike that started the blaze. But she said the agency would not pursue charges because the ignition was not malicious.

    The agency also does not intend to close any trails to bicyclists in the area as a safety precaution. The probability of a pedal causing a fire, officials said, remains extremely low.

    Because of the blowback on social media, Butler said the Forest Service is thinking about providing more information to the public about the investigation.

    “I kind of want to elaborate on Facebook,” she said. “I think we’ll probably on Wednesday see what it’s like after a week since the report and see about doing a reply.”

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I agree. 'Fabrication' is the technical term.

    But if someone can prove that it can actually occur or 'gasp' duplicate it, I think we are all interested. I'd love to learn and take precaution if needed.
    That is called a peer reviewed study. Something that, unfortunately, so many land managers and shrieking activists ignore, when it fits their agenda.

    Just like that fabricated dead alameda snake. We lost real trails over that fluff.

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    Ok, here we go... real data. UC Irvine did a study on golf clubs and fires. If anyone can prove if pedals can start a fire, they can.

    Someone read the whole study and contact them please about bike pedal possibilities.

    Why? Cause it's better than working.

    Spark production by abrasion of titanium alloys in golf club heads - Arulmoli - 2014 - Fire and Materials - Wiley Online Library


    It seems like it was only possible with a titanium coated golf club head and a swing at about 120mph head speed.

    So it's no gimme for bike pedals.



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    What is wrong here, is that a single tech came up with a wild theory, and it is published under loud headlines, and will be taken for granted by anybody with an agenda. Just like it happened with that allegedly dead phantom snake.
    This is not how such "facts" need to be established.

    By contrast, no sparks were produced by stainless steel club heads when tested under the same conditions.
    QED

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    I'm surprised they've ruled out spontaneous human combustion.
    The Truth will set you free.

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  119. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by phattruth View Post
    I'm surprised they've ruled out spontaneous human combustion.
    Yup. Or aliens. Or black hole.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    What is wrong here, is that a single tech came up with a wild theory, and it is published under loud headlines, and will be taken for granted by anybody with an agenda. Just like it happened with that allegedly dead phantom snake.
    This is not how such "facts" need to be established.



    QED
    I like the quote that you pulled. NO sparks on stainless steel heads. ZERO.

    That single tech made a WAG (wild ass guess) on her swiss cheese theory.

    Still, someone contact the UC Irvine crew and get their opinion on this.
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  121. #121
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    We made the news.

    Cyclists incensed after bike pedal blamed in Sierra wildfire - SFGateName:  028d6969ead85a95b34b7d4d8fd2aa2e.jpg
Views: 374
Size:  52.4 KB

    Now if you google 'bike pedal causes fire' there are a bunch of results as if it is fact. It is possible like aliens, bigfoot and the lochness monster hanging out for a beer.
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  122. #122
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    One of the fires in Orange County was blamed on a spark from a titanium golf club.

    Titanium golf club blamed for Orange County brush fire | abc7.com

  123. #123
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    Has anyone mentioned a safety meeting being the potential source of the fire?

    Rider hits a rock, gets unintentionally dismounted, holds an impromptu safety meeting to prevent future unintentional dismounts. Fire ensues.

    Too obvious?

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    congratulations people.

    if you had said nothing, or discretely asked the usfs, then this would just be yet another in the collection of unusual ways fires have started. no one would have talked about it except in the 'funny things' books.

    but now? it's widely distributed (even if the 'made the news' article fc just posted is from 3 weeks ago). all the enviro-crazy people can read about it.

    plus anyone following the threads will think that mountain bikers are a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists who don't want to listen to science, thus undermining the science based arguments as to why mountain bikes should be allowed.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    One of the fires in Orange County was blamed on a spark from a titanium golf club.

    Titanium golf club blamed for Orange County brush fire | abc7.com
    We covered that below. Really good study by UC Irvine. It is possible with a 120m golf head strike with a very specific titanium coated club head. Stainless steel, no chance.
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  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    Has anyone mentioned a safety meeting being the potential source of the fire?

    Rider hits a rock, gets unintentionally dismounted, holds an impromptu safety meeting to prevent future unintentional dismounts. Fire ensues.

    Too obvious?
    This is a lot more likely cause.

    fc
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    who don't want to listen to science, thus undermining the science based arguments as to why mountain bikes should be allowed.
    Science? Science, quoted above says it is not possible. Science also says that this WAG does not establish a fact.

    This was reported, sensationalized, and will be taken for granted by people with an agenda without our participation here whatsoever. That is the problem.

  128. #128
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    huh? science says that observers have seen this happen! (cheatgrass fire from pedal strike). many observers have seen sparks from pedals (i am one of them). i bet we could replicate this experiment.

    it's also possible that this was not the cause of the fire. but it's plausible.

    it was on sensationalized by mountain bikers. otherwise it would have been unheard of.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbbill View Post
    This past Thursday I rode Lower Rock Creek on my way to Mammoth. Here is a POV vid of the fire damaged section of trail. Its between the first and second road crossing (not counting the trailhead)

    Interestingly the trail itself appeared to make an excellent fire break

  130. #130
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    It would appear that the statement was made by the USFS on the Inyo National Forest facebook page first. Mountain bike pedal sparks forest fire - BikeRadar USA

    I saw it in my feed as a "you might be interested in" article before it was shared by the MTBR account or other prolific posters/sharers. And I don't live anywhere close to Inyo. But I do post about bikes and link strava rides occasionally.

    There's pretty much one reason to put it on Facebook in the first instance. And it's not to preserve records for a future FOIA request.

    As for "plausible" I'm not sure that's an evidentiary standard for USFS investigations, but if so, that's a ****ty standard. Something with the capability to shape policy should require at least a more probable than not. And this is not that.

    Edit: With respect to the video ^^^^^, where is the rock that was pedal struck? That's one smooth, fast trail. How do you pedal strike somewhere like that...

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    huh? science says that observers have seen this happen!
    Science is a peer reviewed controlled study. I am unaware of such a study. Can you provide a reference?

    We certainly did not cause this WAG to be published.

  132. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    huh? science says that observers have seen this happen! (cheatgrass fire from pedal strike). many observers have seen sparks from pedals (i am one of them). i bet we could replicate this experiment.

    it's also possible that this was not the cause of the fire. but it's plausible.

    it was on sensationalized by mountain bikers. otherwise it would have been unheard of.
    Observers have also seen bigfoot and the lochness monster. That doesn't mean squat, specially for something not proven in human history.

    Don't be too quick to blame mountain bikers for this fire or creating this false news.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Science? Science, quoted above says it is not possible. Science also says that this WAG does not establish a fact.

    This was reported, sensationalized, and will be taken for granted by people with an agenda without our participation here whatsoever. That is the problem.
    Again thank you! MBMTB doesn't realize the problem isn't that this is scientifically possible.

    It's that it was sensationalized on the USFS Facebook page without any scientific basis. In fact the investigation was not even complete before some USFS employee published this:




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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Again thank you! MBMTB doesn't realize the problem isn't that this is scientifically possible.

    It's that it was sensationalized on the USFS Facebook page without any scientific basis. In fact the investigation was not even complete before some USFS employee published this:




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    At least they signed their real name, "XXX-"

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    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    At least they signed their real name, "XXX-"
    Yep nothing dodgy about that at all. Why people are condoning this behavior, and by people I mean one of the admins of the TAMBA FB page is beyond me.

    I'm not talking about the validity of theoretical science regarding pedal strikes

    I'm simply talking about social media policy. There are some very glaring examples of this at the Federal level.

  136. #136
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    The "Pros" in a certain fire agency that fought a certain wildfire in a certain park that I volunteer at spotted some black poly tubing in the burn area and they were certain that it was associated with a typical MJ grow. They even were certain that the fire crew spotted MJ plants. The area was deemed off limits for a couple of months as they conducted their crime-scene investigation; both the source of ignition (camp stove accident as confessed by an unlucky camper who turned in the fire) and the potential "grow". (This park has had numerous grows discovered in the past FWIW)

    Well, the black poly pipe was legitimate park property connecting a legitimate maintained spring to a nearby legitimate horse trough. The "MJ plants" were probably milkweed (monarch butterfly's favorite food) as very little else is green that time of year. I guess milkweed is "weed"!?!?

    These fire investigators mean well but WYSIWYG.

    See also "jumping to conclusions"; see a pedal scrape on a rock on a trail frequented by MTBs in a burn zone and...
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  137. #137
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    Every single rock on that trail have a pedal scrapes on them. We calling it ninja trail cause lots of rocks hidden in the grass that you can't see but still have to dodge. Some spots may see "pedal parts" around due to above.
    Meanwhile many areas in Mono county been burning time to time regardless of its adjustment to Lower Rock Creek. It must be those pesky pedals or horseshoes or golfclubs.

    What is most common cause of fire in those areas? And why this particular spot got its own rare as Bigfoot version?
    I used to run tubes like you are, but then I got thorn in my wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Yep nothing dodgy about that at all. Why people are condoning this behavior, and by people I mean one of the admins of the TAMBA FB page is beyond me.

    I'm not talking about the validity of theoretical science regarding pedal strikes

    I'm simply talking about social media policy. There are some very glaring examples of this at the Federal level.
    If it truly did happen, riders care and wouldn't want to repeat it...which would lead to designing products that'll prevent it. I've seen nothing that demonstrates conclusive. That's what is getting people so riled up...

    However, my "jump-to-conclusions mat" said so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you have other questions, I'll be in the basement.
    Last edited by BraaapTastic; 09-16-2016 at 03:00 PM.

  139. #139
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    my real point is that this is all theater, all the parts in the public at least. heck, some of us in this thread sat in an ornate room on monday afternoon listening to folks saying that fire is a good reason to keep everyone away. but everyone in the room had heard pretty much everything said before.

    anti-science isn't being a skeptic of the presented ignition source. it's presenting the hypothesis that this cannot happen, and that in particular pedals don't produce sparks. then repeating that after many spark demonstrations.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmtb View Post
    my real point is that this is all theater, all the parts in the public at least. heck, some of us in this thread sat in an ornate room on monday afternoon listening to folks saying that fire is a good reason to keep everyone away. but everyone in the room had heard pretty much everything said before.

    anti-science isn't being a skeptic of the presented ignition source. it's presenting the hypothesis that this cannot happen, and that in particular pedals don't produce sparks. then repeating that after many spark demonstrations.
    Anyone who has tried to get "justice" from an arson investigation knows that proving anything in a wild land fire setting is extremely difficult.

    That combined with this USFS social media post, which was made before the investigation was concluded.



    Notice the words "conclusive evidence". This is extremely troubling for a Federal agency.

    Other USFS employees rushing to defend this social media post should not be considered anything other than circling the wagons.



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  141. #141
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    fyi - they have new commentary in this article, origin uncertain.
    How a Pedal Strike Can Start a Wildfire | Bicycling

    "When three mountain bikers reached the bottom of the second section of the Lower Rock Creek Trail that day, they looked back and noticed smoke; a fourth mountain biker descending the trail saw the fire on the side and unsuccessfully tried to stomp it out with his feet."

  142. #142
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    What the fuh? I didn't know Roadies hated MTB so much they would hire a runner to write COMPLETELY WRONG crap pretending to an engineer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monica Prelle writing for Bicycling Magazine
    The Ingredients
    Mountain bike pedals are typically made from aluminum alloy, but can also comprise titanium, magnesium, and plastic with steel components. Even though aluminum alloy is generally considered to be a ‘spark-resistant’ metal, it can sometimes be ferrous, meaning it contains iron; that's important, because iron is considered a pyrophoric material: It can ignite in the presence of oxygen alone.

    Guess what most rocks are made of? Minerals like iron and magnesium, which are also incredibly pyrophoric. Simply, iron-bearing rocks don't spontaneously catch fire, because when pure iron is exposed to air, it rusts over, creating a protective film. It takes a lot of iron exposed to air simultaneously to build up enough heat to be of consequence.
    You have GOT to be kidding me.

    Ferrous aluminum alloy?????? Sounds like "Non Contagious Pneumonia", which would explain all the anti_Trump crap on Ms. Prelles Twitter Feed.

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtJunky View Post
    If it truly did happen, riders care and wouldn't want to repeat it...which would lead to designing products that'll prevent it.
    This is basically why they invented crank brothers pedals. Instead of causing sparks, the entire pedal collapses when you hit a rock.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by unicrown junkie View Post
    No, definitely not a beat down by any means. Certain rock types, can we elaborate more, like was it obsidian on the mountainside and by chance it was struck just the right way? Oh how I wish we could do Castle Peak like we did in the 80s and that area to find out because XT cross country pedals then couldn't do it, this still sounds wholly implausible.
    I've made visible sparks riding downhill with my 545s in Phoenix, middle of the day. So yeah, it's plausible.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    What the fuh? I didn't know Roadies hated MTB so much they would hire a runner to write COMPLETELY WRONG crap pretending to an engineer.



    You have GOT to be kidding me.

    Ferrous aluminum alloy?????? Sounds like "Non Contagious Pneumonia", which would explain all the anti_Trump crap on Ms. Prelles Twitter Feed.
    OMG Ms Prelle is almost funny being an election year and all that. What a crock of $hit.

    Sad that the editors can't even do HS-level fact checking before letting this out.

    In other news I tried to old-school start a fire in my back yard using the flint-and-steel technique; actually using a piece of chert and a horseshoe. After much practice I could generate pallid sparks; not hot enough to light the tinder I was using.
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  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Anyone who has tried to get "justice" from an arson investigation knows that proving anything in a wild land fire setting is extremely difficult.

    That combined with this USFS social media post, which was made before the investigation was concluded.

    Notice the words "conclusive evidence". This is extremely troubling for a Federal agency.

    Other USFS employees rushing to defend this social media post should not be considered anything other than circling the wagons.

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    This kinda reminds me of the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" conjured up for the attack on Iraq.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pliebenberg View Post
    This kinda reminds me of the "Weapons of Mass Destruction" conjured up for the attack on Iraq.
    Well while it is a deception intended to harm others, I find it a lot more similar to the old adage I still hear while working on the board of STC:

    "Bikes tear up trails"



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  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I've made visible sparks riding downhill with my 545s in Phoenix, middle of the day. So yeah, it's plausible.
    According to scientific study on golf clubs, visible flashes of light and sparks capable of ignition are not the same thing.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    What the fuh? I didn't know Roadies hated MTB so much they would hire a runner to write COMPLETELY WRONG crap pretending to an engineer.



    You have GOT to be kidding me.

    Ferrous aluminum alloy?????? Sounds like "Non Contagious Pneumonia", which would explain all the anti_Trump crap on Ms. Prelles Twitter Feed.
    "... Plus, wildfires have even been known to start because of a rider falling and their bike frame striking a rock on impact."

    Utter garbage. C-mon. Bigfoot is more believable than this.
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