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  1. #1601
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    Not far...Rocklin, CA.
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  2. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I helped build some of the very early trails in Pisgah in the 90s. There are some amazing spots there.
    Got to thinking about Pisgah. This trail doesn't look that tough in this video, but it is tough, very tough. And very, very beautiful.


  3. #1603
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    Another great Pisgah trail. I don't remember Buckwheat Knob, maybe we called it something different, but the Bennet trail is a well known old indian trail, if I recall correctly. Note the guy in this video only has one arm! Props!

    Also note how much more dense the forest is in NC. When it's hot and no breeze, it's lots of fun.


  4. #1604
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  5. #1605
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    ^^^ Awesome video!

  6. #1606
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    California lost more residents to other states than it got last year

    Via today's Mercury News; "POPULATION" by Phillip Reese of The Sacramento Bee:

    "About 130,000 more residents left California for other states last year than came here from them, as high costs left many residents without a college degree looking for an exit, according to a Sacramento Bee review of the latest census estimates.

    They most often went to cheaper, nearby states ó and Texas. Since 2001, about 410,000 more people have left California for Texas than arrived from there. Thatís roughly equivalent to the population of Oakland.

    California has seen more than 15 consecutive years of net resident losses to other states. The trend was sharpest at the height of the housing boom between 2004 and 2006. It slowed markedly during the housing bust but quickened again during recent years.

    The stateís overall population continued to grow because the number of births exceeded the number of deaths by about 220,000 in 2017, according to the California Department of Finance. The state also added about 185,000 residents via net immigration from abroad.

    But California is drawing more people than it is losing from one distinct demographic group ó those with an advanced college degree. About 9,000 more adults 25 and older with graduate degrees came to California from other states than left for them last year, census estimates show.

    In addition, about as many adults 25 and older with a bachelorís degree but no masterís degree came to California as left for other states last year.

    On the other hand, adults without a college degree left California in droves. Educational attainment is closely correlated with income ó those with college degrees tend to earn a lot more than those without."
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  7. #1607
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    ^^^ Hard to believe a professional journalist wrote that article. Conclusion makes sense, competitive workers in = prices go up, and non competitive workers leave.

  8. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    Via today's Mercury News; "POPULATION" by Phillip Reese of The Sacramento Bee:

    "About 130,000 more residents left California for other states last year than came here from them, as high costs left many residents without a college degree looking for an exit, according to a Sacramento Bee review of the latest census estimates.

    Could be worse. Illinois has been losing population on an absolute basis for a couple of years, even with births and foreign in-migration.

    It isn't going to stop either. The new Governor has to do *something* to fix the massive budget issues, and they only thing that can be done is to raise taxes even higher, which will drive even more people out of the state.

    Southern/Western Illinois are undiscovered gems, but the dysfunctional clusterfork that is Illinois "government", plus far right politics in the rural areas, make them intolerable for most people. A homeowner from CA could cash out and retire at 40. In fact, I have a nephew who just did that, but in North Central Illinois. He isn't an outdoors enthusiast, so the northern section suits him fine. He sold his Colorado house, paid cash for a nicer one in Illinois, and started working part time for a non-profit at age 40. His wife waitresses part time. They are extremely happy. No debt, no traffic, no stress. They are milking the Obamacare subsidies for health insurance since their income is low enough to get health insurance for $400/mo for both of them. Their part-time earnings pay the bills, and they have the leftover money from their house sale for a cushion. No kids.

  9. #1609
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    As promised to King_Dave72 I spoke to some of my friends who have left and come back. Yes, my secretary reminded me, 'Did you have a call with....King David??'

    First some of the reasons they left:

    Job Opportunity was by far #1 -- but most left knowing they would come back, they viewed this as a stepping stone type move.

    Housing cost -- obvious

    Traffic -- it's getting worse here, but also many other places.

    Social issues: homeless, crime -- there's more issues in the Bay Area than many other areas.

    The reasons they came back:

    Career -- ultimately if you're in tech, the valley is the place to be.

    Weather -- many of my friends said they didn't realize just how nice it is in the Bay Area until they left.

    Variety of Food -- We do have some pretty incredible food here, and there is a world of bland food in other places.

    Spirit of the West -- This is interesting. The Bay Area definitely encourages risk taking in a very positive way. This is definitely not the case on the east coast, where failure is shameful.

    Like minded people -- peer group played a big part, both in social opportunities and in schools.

    Stress -- many found that while they like the idea of a stress free life, they got bored pretty quickly.

  10. #1610
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    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    They are milking the Obamacare subsidies for health insurance since their income is low enough to get health insurance for $400/mo for both of them. Their part-time earnings pay the bills, and they have the leftover money from their house sale for a cushion. No kids.
    Not anymore, those subsidies got killed. I wouldn't bet my retirement on how the current tax code works, just seems like a bad idea.

  11. #1611
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    Not anymore, those subsidies got killed. I wouldn't bet my retirement on how the current tax code works, just seems like a bad idea.
    The subsidies did not get killed.

    https://www.healthinsurance.org/obam...dy-calculator/

    I know it seems impossible to people living in CA, but there are millions and millions and millions of people who are able to live well on $30K per year, especially if they can pay cash up front for their house, and have money in the bank for emergencies. If your income is that low, you *currently* do not have to worry about being able to pay for health insurance, the subsidies will make it affordable.

    Of course, if you have to pay $3000/mo for rent, $500/mo for a car, $500/mo for commuting expenses, and pay the other high costs of living in CA or on the east coast, you have to have an income that pushes you up out of the zone where you get insurance subsidies. Since the subsidies are a national thing and based only on income, if you can cash out of an expensive area, you can live in a nice location in a nice house and pay very little for health insurance. Is it a scam? Not any more of a scam than tax breaks for oil companies or the fact that someone can get a lifetime pension and health care after serving only two years in the US House of Representatives.

    Like it or not, there are a lot of people who retired early on the premise that the Obamacare subsidies would survive. Now that the Democrats won the House back, the subsidies will continue for at least two more years. As long as the Dems own one of the houses of the legislature or the presidency, the ACA isn't going anywhere.

    If you are over 50, and you own your house outright, it is very likely that your number one household expense is health insurance unless you get it through your employer or have a subsidy. By the time you get to your 60's, unsubsidized health insurance is $1500/mo or more per person, depending on where you live. That's $36K per year for a married couple. So one or both of you can work stressful full time jobs and make a combined $60-80K, and after taxes and health insurance you are living on about $28K, or you can work no stress, flexible part time jobs and make $30K, and after taxes and health insurance you are living on....wait for it....about $28K. Blame progressive income taxes and Obamacare for that reality, but it is reality.

  12. #1612
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    Cloudy, wet, not a great trail network, and it's a looong way from anything else.

    Jobs? What jobs

    If you are relaly looking at Arcata, I'd go a little further north and settle on the Oregon coast, much nicer in all ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turd Fergusen View Post
    What about Arcata? Tell me about living in Arcata. Some friends just bought a house up there and it looks really nice on paper. Not just the biking, which I assume is awesome, but bonuses and pitfalls of local life.
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  13. #1613
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    Dude, seriously, I don't think I can outdo this gig. Sadly, unless my kids move here, we will move to them in three to five years; grandkids dontch' know.

    We get far less snow in Carson than Genoa or Reno. The rain shadow matters, so if you live on the south end of Reno or Carson, the snow/rain drops off significantly.

    Last year was a low snow year, but we stil had a 18" snow and a couple 4-6" snows. The smaller snows melted the next day, the bigger snow took a couple days. There was still a little snow left on north facing slopes, but ride on Prison Hill, Centennial, or Goni and your're snow free 99% of the winter. All my trails are south facing

    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Youíre living the dream! I have a couple friends in Genoa. It snows there more than Carson City?
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  14. #1614
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    As promised to King_Dave72 I spoke to some of my friends who have left and come back. Yes, my secretary reminded me, 'Did you have a call with....King David??'

    First some of the reasons they left:

    Job Opportunity was by far #1 -- but most left knowing they would come back, they viewed this as a stepping stone type move.

    Housing cost -- obvious

    Traffic -- it's getting worse here, but also many other places.

    Social issues: homeless, crime -- there's more issues in the Bay Area than many other areas.

    The reasons they came back:

    Career -- ultimately if you're in tech, the valley is the place to be.

    Weather -- many of my friends said they didn't realize just how nice it is in the Bay Area until they left.

    Variety of Food -- We do have some pretty incredible food here, and there is a world of bland food in other places.

    Spirit of the West -- This is interesting. The Bay Area definitely encourages risk taking in a very positive way. This is definitely not the case on the east coast, where failure is shameful.

    Like minded people -- peer group played a big part, both in social opportunities and in schools.

    Stress -- many found that while they like the idea of a stress free life, they got bored pretty quickly.
    Every time I visit my sister in Belmont (1200-1500 sq/ft ranch neighborhood $1.8-2.5m houses) and have to deal with the California traffic I just wonder how you Bay Area people do it.

    But the weather sure is nice. And you can always cash out if you are fortunate to be a 10+ year home owner.

  15. #1615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurse Ben View Post
    Dude, seriously, I don't think I can outdo this gig. Sadly, unless my kids move here, we will move to them in three to five years; grandkids dontch' know.

    We get far less snow in Carson than Genoa or Reno. The rain shadow matters, so if you live on the south end of Reno or Carson, the snow/rain drops off significantly.

    Last year was a low snow year, but we stil had a 18" snow and a couple 4-6" snows. The smaller snows melted the next day, the bigger snow took a couple days. There was still a little snow left on north facing slopes, but ride on Prison Hill, Centennial, or Goni and your're snow free 99% of the winter. All my trails are south facing
    Are you a nurse? The pay differential between bay area nurses and Carson Valley/Reno nurses is substantial. My wife makes $90 per hr as a nurse in SJ but it looks like she'd have to take a 50% pay cut in Carson/Reno. Sure the housing is cheaper but it doesn't make up for the reduction in pay in some fields.

  16. #1616
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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUZe View Post
    Are you a nurse? The pay differential between bay area nurses and Carson Valley/Reno nurses is substantial. My wife makes $90 per hr as a nurse in SJ but it looks like she'd have to take a 50% pay cut in Carson/Reno. Sure the housing is cheaper but it doesn't make up for the reduction in pay in some fields.
    Thatís interesting because docs can make far more money in smaller town vs big cities. I have a couple friends who are docs in Genoa, they seem to be doing ok.

  17. #1617
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    Every time I visit my sister in Belmont (1200-1500 sq/ft ranch neighborhood $1.8-2.5m houses) and have to deal with the California traffic I just wonder how you Bay Area people do it.

    But the weather sure is nice. And you can always cash out if you are fortunate to be a 10+ year home owner.
    And you can probably ride to Waterdog and Carlmont from your sister's house?

  18. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    And you can probably ride to Waterdog and Carlmont from your sister's house?
    There are a lot of places in the country where you can ride to the neighborhood trails and not have to pay millions for the privilege haha.

  19. #1619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    There are a lot of places in the country where you can ride to the neighborhood trails and not have to pay millions for the privilege haha.
    True, but there are very few places where you both ride to the trails and invest millions of dollars with 80% leverage and have it grow at about 30% per year cash on cash. With perfect weather as a kicker.

  20. #1620
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    True, but there are very few places where you both ride to the trails and invest millions of dollars with 80% leverage and have it grow at about 30% per year cash on cash. With perfect weather as a kicker.
    It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 20-30% yearly price appreciation.
    Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
    This asset bubble is different than all of the previous and other asset bubbles - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.

  21. #1621
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 20-30% yearly price appreciation.
    Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
    This asset bubble is different than all of the previous and other asset bubbles - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
    Owning hard assets in an inflationary economy is a very old paradigm.

  22. #1622
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    True, but there are very few places where you both ride to the trails and invest millions of dollars with 80% leverage and have it grow at about 30% per year cash on cash. With perfect weather as a kicker.
    Actually, the kicker is you have to have millions to invest first.

    Ill take better trails, actual mountains, same growth on real estate with a relatively affordable buy-in, and MUCH better recreation with access. But hey, to each their own, especially if warm weather is that worth it to you.

  23. #1623
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    So I'm considering a job in Santa Cruz and figure I'll check out this forum. I find a loooonnngg thread about people wanting to leave, a thread about people getting tickets for mountain biking, a thread about some guy who is definitely going to steal my bike, oh... and the place is apparently on fire. Maybe it's a sign

  24. #1624
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    ^ I know someone who is moving to Santa Cruz and she is going there for a job as a social worker to help the homeless. However, she can not afford the rent down in there, so her and her boyfriend are going to live in his van/rv conversion. So, essentially, she will be homeless helping the homeless.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.
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  25. #1625
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 20-30% yearly price appreciation.
    Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
    This asset bubble is different than all of the previous and other asset bubbles - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
    LMAO. This is a joke, right?

    I guess you can't Google back to see that in 1991-94, 2001, and 2008-2011, the value of houses went DOWN, yes even in the Bay Area?

    https://www.bayareamarketreports.com...les-and-a-baby

    I know several people who were financially ruined in Boulder real estate in the last crash. Yes, Boulder, the place where people swore the real estate *could* *not* go down, *ever*, because Californians will continue to prop up the market. LMAO. They bought with little down in 2005-2007, lost their jobs in the downturn, and were forced to sell. That almighty leverage goes both ways. Bankruptcies were the result.

    Of course, in the eyes of creditors, bankruptcies are bankruptcies, so if you go bankrupt because you are $50K in the hole or $500K, it is all the same in seven years. Might as well roll the dice on that $1 Million hovel. Maybe you will get lucky. And maybe you won't.

  26. #1626
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    Reminds me of the book: "this time is different"

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  27. #1627
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    Quote Originally Posted by yagr68 View Post
    So I'm considering a job in Santa Cruz and figure I'll check out this forum. I find a loooonnngg thread about people wanting to leave, a thread about people getting tickets for mountain biking, a thread about some guy who is definitely going to steal my bike, oh... and the place is apparently on fire. Maybe it's a sign
    It IS most definitely a sign


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  28. #1628
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  29. #1629
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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO. This is a joke, right?

    I guess you can't Google back to see that in 1991-94, 2001, and 2008-2011, the value of houses went DOWN, yes even in the Bay Area?

    https://www.bayareamarketreports.com...les-and-a-baby

    I know several people who were financially ruined in Boulder real estate in the last crash. Yes, Boulder, the place where people swore the real estate *could* *not* go down, *ever*, because Californians will continue to prop up the market. LMAO. They bought with little down in 2005-2007, lost their jobs in the downturn, and were forced to sell. That almighty leverage goes both ways. Bankruptcies were the result.

    Of course, in the eyes of creditors, bankruptcies are bankruptcies, so if you go bankrupt because you are $50K in the hole or $500K, it is all the same in seven years. Might as well roll the dice on that $1 Million hovel. Maybe you will get lucky. And maybe you won't.
    There is a difference between buying and gambling. I bought properties in the Bay Area during the last two peaks and during the past down turns. Iím happy with those investments today. But Iím a true buy and hold investor, not a gambler.

    When the market does turn down, it always does, I will be a buyer in that market too. I will be buying mainly from the gamblers, again.

    On a more sincere note, I would be very careful right now if youíre playing with money you canít afford to lose. We are deep into a long cycle and the time is ripe for a major cool down.

  30. #1630
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    "It's different this time."

    Quote Originally Posted by honkinunit View Post
    LMAO. This is a joke, right?

    I guess you can't Google back to see that in 1991-94, 2001, and 2008-2011, the value of houses went DOWN, yes even in the Bay Area?

    https://www.bayareamarketreports.com...les-and-a-baby

    I know several people who were financially ruined in Boulder real estate in the last crash. Yes, Boulder, the place where people swore the real estate *could* *not* go down, *ever*, because Californians will continue to prop up the market. LMAO. They bought with little down in 2005-2007, lost their jobs in the downturn, and were forced to sell. That almighty leverage goes both ways. Bankruptcies were the result.

    Of course, in the eyes of creditors, bankruptcies are bankruptcies, so if you go bankrupt because you are $50K in the hole or $500K, it is all the same in seven years. Might as well roll the dice on that $1 Million hovel. Maybe you will get lucky. And maybe you won't.

  31. #1631
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    Quote Originally Posted by yagr68 View Post
    So I'm considering a job in Santa Cruz and figure I'll check out this forum. I find a loooonnngg thread about people wanting to leave, a thread about people getting tickets for mountain biking, a thread about some guy who is definitely going to steal my bike, oh... and the place is apparently on fire. Maybe it's a sign
    I thought Jagr was coming to the Sharks, but then realized it's Yagr68!

  32. #1632
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    ^ I know someone who is moving to Santa Cruz and she is going there for a job as a social worker to help the homeless. However, she can not afford the rent down in there, so her and her boyfriend are going to live in his van/rv conversion. So, essentially, she will be homeless helping the homeless.
    the ****?! really?
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  33. #1633
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    Quote Originally Posted by singletrackmack View Post
    ^ I know someone who is moving to Santa Cruz and she is going there for a job as a social worker to help the homeless. However, she can not afford the rent down in there, so her and her boyfriend are going to live in his van/rv conversion. So, essentially, she will be homeless helping the homeless.
    Growth industry. To be clear, she will not be "homeless"; just "houseless". Big difference. Home can be where you set up your tent, if you have the right attitude.

    Of course if un-employable and high on jank you probably won't have the right attitude.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  34. #1634
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    ^^^ This! Houseless, indigent, and derelict are three different things that sometimes overlap.

    She's doing something incredibly worthwhile, the world needs more of it.

  35. #1635
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    Thanks, 5k bike 50cent legs! Appreciate the time and thought you put into this.

    If leaving for a job opportunity was the #1 cause for most to leave, then that suggests that where exactly they moved to was secondary - esp if they only planned to be there temporarily. Perhaps choosing to move to a place because of that place and not because of the job would lead to a different outcome.

    Spirit of the West - agree that there is a level of ambition here that I have not encountered anywhere else. Risk taking is a part of it but so is the expectation of putting in a lot of time at work. For most people I know it's well beyond 40 hrs in the office and then there's the time spent working at home PLUS being plugged in via email and text. I have set a hard line at not looking at email after 8 pm. There is an expectation that you will respond quickly, even on vacation.

    A friend of mine grew up in Chico - one of the reasons that he left is the distinct lack of ambition of many of the people there.

    Stress is a tricky one. Too little and a man begins to gnaw at the edges of his soul.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    As promised to King_Dave72 I spoke to some of my friends who have left and come back. Yes, my secretary reminded me, 'Did you have a call with....King David??'

    First some of the reasons they left:

    Job Opportunity was by far #1 -- but most left knowing they would come back, they viewed this as a stepping stone type move.

    Housing cost -- obvious

    Traffic -- it's getting worse here, but also many other places.

    Social issues: homeless, crime -- there's more issues in the Bay Area than many other areas.

    The reasons they came back:

    Career -- ultimately if you're in tech, the valley is the place to be.

    Weather -- many of my friends said they didn't realize just how nice it is in the Bay Area until they left.

    Variety of Food -- We do have some pretty incredible food here, and there is a world of bland food in other places.

    Spirit of the West -- This is interesting. The Bay Area definitely encourages risk taking in a very positive way. This is definitely not the case on the east coast, where failure is shameful.

    Like minded people -- peer group played a big part, both in social opportunities and in schools.

    Stress -- many found that while they like the idea of a stress free life, they got bored pretty quickly.

  36. #1636
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 20-30% yearly price appreciation.
    Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
    This asset bubble is different than all of the previous and other asset bubbles - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
    I wouldn't be so sure of that... With the type of growth we have seen the last number of years - 20%-30% annual increase in housing value - there will be some point where it slows, and then stops. When more and more people can't afford to purchase those homes, and pay the annual property taxes, insurance, etc... the increase will slow down, then the issue of lower-income employees that are needed to support a business makes companies decide they may need to relocate to where homes are cheaper - allowing them to hire the janitors, maintenance and assembly personnel that don't make $120K per year... and the programmers, engineers, etc... can buy a larger McMansion instead of a 65-year old 1200 SF 3BR/1.5BA. It's already slowing a bit here. Another couple of years, I think the Bay will be crying a bit. All these people with $8K/month mortgages, their job is relocating to Oklahoma or some other place, and nobody to buy the home they paid a million+ for. Gonna be a lot of upside-down action out there at some point.
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    If I were a Bay Area resident with big piles of money from house equity my next move would be a very simple decision - San Luis Obispo. I spent a week there back in August and absolutely loved that place. Great trails, nice town with friendly people and coastal CA weather with year round riding. I was a little disappointed in real-estate prices there especially since you are 3 hours from a major airport but compared to SF not too bad (saw a few 750k houses that were in ok shape). Anyway central coast CA is amazing and not crowded.

  38. #1638
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    Check out Trinidad, CA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkC View Post
    (saw a few 750k houses that were in ok shape). Anyway central coast CA is amazing and not crowded.
    That's nice :roll eyes: It's dry AF too so kind of a bummer.

  40. #1640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post



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    So you moved away from Marin?

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  42. #1642
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    So you moved away from Marin?

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    Yes and itís been the most refreshing experience of my life


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  43. #1643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Yes and itís been the most refreshing experience of my life


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    Congrats! Where did you end up?
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  44. #1644
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Congrats! Where did you end up?
    I was hired by Alaska Airlines and they based me in Seattle. I live in Issaquah.


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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's a new paradigm, and everybody who doesn't buy, now, will be priced out forever. Anybody who does buy will be rewarded with a lifetime of riches, as their property will continue its 20-30% yearly price appreciation.
    Renters, and anybody born in a future generation, will not be able to afford a $10,000,000 starter home in 15 years. They will live in tent cities, and Hondas.
    This asset bubble is different than all of the previous and other asset bubbles - it will never slow down, or pop. The gains are permanent.
    Iíve heard this ďnew paradigmĒ nonsense before. The first time was in early 2000. None of us could believe the pricing of dot-com and tech stocks. If you had put your money in those stocks then you would have been buried in losses for the next 15 years. The second time was in 2006, in reference to the same housing market of which you speak. We all know what happened over the next 5 years.

    All bubbles burst eventually. The bigger they are, the more people they hurt. Those who are hurt most are those who buy in last. The best we can hope for is a slow decline rather than a bursting.

    But the idea that this market will continue to rise indefinitely is idiotic. Any society will eventually suffer from serious dysfunction without affordable housing, and at some point that will drive people away leading to more affordable housing (assuming the bubble doesnít break earlier).



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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I was hired by Alaska Airlines and they based me in Seattle. I live in Issaquah.
    Congrats! Please try to figure out what they put in the water around there to allow so much trail building without the nonsense and grief, and bring some of it back down here when you visit.

  47. #1647
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    Quote Originally Posted by yagr68 View Post
    So I'm considering a job in Santa Cruz and figure I'll check out this forum. I find a loooonnngg thread about people wanting to leave, a thread about people getting tickets for mountain biking, a thread about some guy who is definitely going to steal my bike, oh... and the place is apparently on fire. Maybe it's a sign
    Don't sweat the small stuff but you may want to pick up a proper mountain lion knife if you make the move.

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  48. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Congrats! Please try to figure out what they put in the water around there to allow so much trail building without the nonsense and grief, and bring some of it back down here when you visit.
    Itís easy. The cycling community doesnít work against trail access they work for trail access. There is no secret sauce. They simply arenít idiots.

    Iíll simply ask one question as an example. Why is MCBC opposed to single use trail systems and insists everything in Marin is multi use? Same with A4B. Try asking either advocacy org to consider a bike priority trail.

    There is ďbike priorityĒ trail language in the RTMP and I was the only one asking for it. Itís impossible to get land managers to listen as an individual when two separate orgs, MCBC and A4B are working against you.

    In the PNW single use trails are bread and butter.

    Why is single use so important? The last lawsuit that stopped The Bob Mitigah trail from opening was a CEQA lawsuit that was based entirely around the County failing to address trail conflict. And before one of you resident CEQA experts tells me CEQA doesnít apply to trail conflict:



    It literally says that in the MHC briefing. Thereís another reason why we canít succeed in the SF Bay. Know it alls will tell me things canít be done or wonít work when they either have no idea what they are talking about or they simply havenít tried.

    In the SF Bay we fall on the sword of ďwe have always done it this way.Ē In Washington I went to one meeting and I was asked if I had any good ideas by the most successful advocacy org in the country. To me that says it all.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Itís easy. The cycling community doesnít work against trail access they work for trail access. There is no secret sauce. They simply arenít idiots.

    Iíll simply ask one question as an example. Why is MCBC opposed to single use trail systems and insists everything in Marin is multi use? Same with A4B. Try asking either advocacy org to consider a bike priority trail.

    There is ďbike priorityĒ trail language in the RTMP and I was the only one asking for it. Itís impossible to get land managers to listen as an individual when two separate orgs, MCBC and A4B are working against you.

    In the PNW single use trails are bread and butter.

    Why is single use so important? The last lawsuit that stopped The Bob Mitigah trail from opening was a CEQA lawsuit that was based entirely around the County failing to address trail conflict. And before one of you resident CEQA experts tells me CEQA doesnít apply to trail conflict:



    It literally says that in the MHC briefing. Thereís another reason why we canít succeed in the SF Bay. Know it alls will tell me things canít be done or wonít work when they either have no idea what they are talking about or they simply havenít tried.

    In the SF Bay we fall on the sword of ďwe have always done it this way.Ē In Washington I went to one meeting and I was asked if I had any good ideas by the most successful advocacy org in the country. To me that says it all.




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    Iím from Seattle and now living in the Bay. This ^. Boy do I miss Evergreen. They are the model of how it should be done. It helps when the outdoors is such a huge part of the culture. Amazon and Microsoft even enables employees to contribute to the organization. People just live and breathe the outdoors there. Itís a whole different vibe.




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  50. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
    . People just live and breathe the outdoors there. Itís a whole different vibe.
    Thing i noticed was there were a lot of folks i knew in the Bay Area who considered themselves outdoorsy and had a lot of nice equipment, but only actually did the cool stuff a handful of times per year... mostly because access isnt easy. In the seattle area, those same people are usually getting after it every single weekend, though their activities change with the weather/season. A lot more people have the outdoors as their passion here, vs just a cool side hobby in the BA.

  51. #1651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Thing i noticed was there were a lot of folks i knew in the Bay Area who considered themselves outdoorsy and had a lot of nice equipment, but only actually did the cool stuff a handful of times per year... mostly because access isnt easy. In the seattle area, those same people are usually getting after it every single weekend, though their activities change with the weather/season. A lot more people have the outdoors as their passion here, vs just a cool side hobby in the BA.
    I think a lot of us have to grind it out on the roadbike or boring fire roads during the work week. Then do like 1 or 2 fun rides over the weekend as time allows to travel to trails.

  52. #1652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Thing i noticed was there were a lot of folks i knew in the Bay Area who considered themselves outdoorsy and had a lot of nice equipment, but only actually did the cool stuff a handful of times per year... mostly because access isnt easy. In the seattle area, those same people are usually getting after it every single weekend, though their activities change with the weather/season. A lot more people have the outdoors as their passion here, vs just a cool side hobby in the BA.
    My own behavior mirrors this. Access here sucks compared to Seattle. In Seattle a 45min drive before or after work gets you to some epic terrain. Used to ride before and after work all the time. Now itís nearly impossible to get anywhere decent. And if youíre in SF for work, youíre basically land locked. I mean REI is based up there.

    And anything during the weekend is an all day affair.


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  53. #1653
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    A lot more people have the outdoors as their passion here, vs just a cool side hobby in the BA.
    Yeah, I'm always shocked how empty the trails are in Santa Cruz every weekend.
    The broken are the more evolved. Rejoice.

  54. #1654
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Yeah, I'm always shocked how empty the trails are in Santa Cruz every weekend.
    Really? We have pretty heavy crowds in the Berkeley/Oakland area. The most ridiculously crowded area is Redwood Park. Itís a nice big park with a few mildly interesting rocky fire roads and some other, lousy fire roads, all covered with many hundreds of hikers and bikers and dogs per mile on the weekend, plus some sweet singletrack that is illegal to ride (and a total no-go zone on MTB). Seriously large numbers of people in there; parking lots are always full and overflowing into the neighborhoods. Our only local small park with a few miles of decent legal singletrack, Joaquin Miller, is also extremely crowded on the weekend. The other local parks (Tilden, Wildcat, Sibley) are pretty and nice for exercise rides and fire road climbing but lack good legal singletrack. Our crown jewel for MTB, Crockett, is a 30 minute drive North and you have to ride 6 miles in to get to the better stuff. Iíd trade it all in an instant for what Santa Cruz has including all its issues.

    If you want to be shocked by great empty trails, ride in Mendocino. Iíve gone on multiple 4-hour rides up there without seeing a soul on the trails.

    And for all the BS with trail access in Marin, there is basically nobody at all up on San Geronimo Ridge, Bolinas Ridge, or even the North side of Tam midweek. They have big problems in Marin but crowds arenít one of them. All the crowds are at Tamarancho on weekends, or on the fire roads and close to the trailheads.


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  55. #1655
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    A lot of us want to be closer to nature and mountains in the next stage/home. But fire is a real concern. And it'll probably be worse in the next couple of decades.

    Something to think about.
    IPA will save America

  56. #1656
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    A lot of us want to be closer to nature and mountains in the next stage/home. But fire is a real concern. And it'll probably be worse in the next couple of decades.

    Something to think about.
    True, but it seems like fire is a big concern anywhere in California whether you are in the mountains or more metro places like LA/Ventura. I sure wouldnít consider the LA / Ventura area as getting ďcloser to natureĒ.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.
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  57. #1657
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    A lot of us want to be closer to nature and mountains in the next stage/home. But fire is a real concern. And it'll probably be worse in the next couple of decades.

    Something to think about.
    People should think about it, en route to being prepared, not avoidance.

    A simple step that can save your life in an emergency like this: never let your car dip below 1/2 full. In a major catastrophe, gas stations are closed, the gas in your car could mean the difference between life and death.

  58. #1658
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    Lately, I have been considering the eventual move to former fire storm area, as my partner REFUSES to leave CA. I wonder if spots like Redding, or Santa Rosa hills are pretty safe from another massive fire for 30 yrs. My family history gives me 20-25 more yrs on avg.

  59. #1659
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    May have to rewrite building code for fire prone areas. No asphalt shingles, no wood siding, etc. Not gonna help building costs.

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  60. #1660
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    People should think about it, en route to being prepared, not avoidance.
    Agreed. Another thing to consider is escape routes. I live in Tahoe and am very concerned about the fire risk. One thing that was important to me when finding a place was how easily it would be to get out in an emergency. I was lucky to find a place 3 blocks from the top of the 267 in north lake. In an emergency we can go north, east or west within a minute. The area is also not densely populated which could help when trying to flee except for in the peak summer season, which I am fully aware is when a fire could break out. Another thing to is fire prevention and the forest service does not mess around in the basin with continuous prescribed burns happening year round. They do a great job of clearing he underbrush in the area where I live.
    Get out of the gutter and onto the mountain top.
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  61. #1661
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    Agreed! Maybe it's micro-regional. I see lots of people in the East Bay hills and the parks, esp on weekends but even on weekdays too. It has become so crowded on weekends that I will only ride the MTB on the trails at dawn. After about 9 am the trails are basically unrideable due to the crowds on weekends. The parking lots for the parks overflow on weekends. It wasn't like this 10-15 years ago. People who have moved here from outside of California often tell me how surprised they are by how active people in the Bay Area are.

    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Really? We have pretty heavy crowds in the Berkeley/Oakland area. The most ridiculously crowded area is Redwood Park. Itís a nice big park with a few mildly interesting rocky fire roads and some other, lousy fire roads, all covered with many hundreds of hikers and bikers and dogs per mile on the weekend, plus some sweet singletrack that is illegal to ride (and a total no-go zone on MTB). Seriously large numbers of people in there; parking lots are always full and overflowing into the neighborhoods. Our only local small park with a few miles of decent legal singletrack, Joaquin Miller, is also extremely crowded on the weekend. The other local parks (Tilden, Wildcat, Sibley) are pretty and nice for exercise rides and fire road climbing but lack good legal singletrack. Our crown jewel for MTB, Crockett, is a 30 minute drive North and you have to ride 6 miles in to get to the better stuff. Iíd trade it all in an instant for what Santa Cruz has including all its issues.

    If you want to be shocked by great empty trails, ride in Mendocino. Iíve gone on multiple 4-hour rides up there without seeing a soul on the trails.

    And for all the BS with trail access in Marin, there is basically nobody at all up on San Geronimo Ridge, Bolinas Ridge, or even the North side of Tam midweek. They have big problems in Marin but crowds arenít one of them. All the crowds are at Tamarancho on weekends, or on the fire roads and close to the trailheads.


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  62. #1662
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    Iím a Nurse Practitioner, wife is one too, nice portable career that pays decent. Sheís a retired engineer, Iím a carpenter who kept going to school until I got it right.

    I get that the pay is higher in high cost areas, but itís not the cost of living that makes California suck so bad, itís the traffic, the people, and the competition for recreation.

    I left NorCal in 1984 and never looked back.

    There are so many nice places to live that arenít overcrowded, but itís all about mdking choices.

    Tonight Iím sitting in front of a fire, looking out over the valley, moon and stars are visible because light pollution is minimal in a town of 40k, no road noise, no airplanes, no sirens, just quiet. I live minutes from downtown.

    Tomorrow Iím going to take a leisurely ride down Clear Creek trail from Spooner Summit, there will three of us, weíll probably see another three or so people in the two hours it takes to ride fifteen miles of beautiful single track. The trail head is fifteen minutes from my house.

    Donít misunderstand, Iím not bragging, this lifestyle is mine by choice and it could be the choice of others, but life doesnít wait for you ... you got to make the choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUZe View Post
    Are you a nurse? The pay differential between bay area nurses and Carson Valley/Reno nurses is substantial. My wife makes $90 per hr as a nurse in SJ but it looks like she'd have to take a 50% pay cut in Carson/Reno. Sure the housing is cheaper but it doesn't make up for the reduction in pay in some fields.
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  63. #1663
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    Quote Originally Posted by king_dave72 View Post
    Agreed! Maybe it's micro-regional. I see lots of people in the East Bay hills and the parks, esp on weekends but even on weekdays too. It has become so crowded on weekends that I will only ride the MTB on the trails at dawn. After about 9 am the trails are basically unrideable due to the crowds on weekends. The parking lots for the parks overflow on weekends. It wasn't like this 10-15 years ago. People who have moved here from outside of California often tell me how surprised they are by how active people in the Bay Area are.
    That was kind of the point i was making. As a generalization, people in the bay area think being outdoorsy means going for a <5 mile hike on a crowded fire road, or going for a MTB ride on some pretty mediocre local trails... yet they will have the nicest equipment available to do it haha. Obviously there are exceptions, and i knew a few of them. And im not trying to put down the bay area in any way. From what i have seen and heard, it is still one of the healthiest, most physically active places in the country and has a wide array of outdoor recreation available. Its just not real great if your passion has to do with more mountain or wilderness based recreation IME (though i will say the road biking is legit world class).

    I think it comes down to access. In Seattle, legit mountains and wilderness are less than an hour away so every weekend you have the opportunity to go bag a peak, do a backcountry ride, resort or BC ski, sport climb, run whitewater etc and you dont have to blow an entire weekend to do it, heck you usually can do that an be home to catch the afternoon football game the same day haha. And on weekdays you still have access to world class MTB trails after work, or night skiing. Also the mountains here are just plain steep and rugged, much steeper than the rockies or sierra, though at a much lower elevation (which has its advantages and disadvantages). Its just a different baseline for how much and the level of outdoor recreation you can pack into your life here.

  64. #1664
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Really? We have pretty heavy crowds in the Berkeley/Oakland area.
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    Sorry, I was being ironic. It can be hard to find a parking spot at the more popular spots. And I'm not mentioning the spots that aren't crowded! I rode JMP once and it was full of people.
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  65. #1665
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    May have to rewrite building code for fire prone areas. No asphalt shingles, no wood siding, etc. Not gonna help building costs.

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    Maybe with a minimum lot size of 5 or so acres. I've seen plenty of stucco-walled tiled-roof houses destroyed in wild fires. Trash in gutters and incandescent heat from nearby flames does the trick; if all windows had automatic self-closing metal shutters then maybe half a chance in a wildfire.

    If your lot is only 100' wide you're just gonna be effed in a firestorm. 100' is now considered a "defensible distance" (I think it was 25' in the old days)

    But people like the ambiance of having a home "nestled in the woods". Not "nestled in a clear cut". That would be just like living in a city.
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