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  1. #901
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    Uh, this risks taking this thread very far off topic, but anyone got tips on choosing a lender? I submitted applications for two lenders based on realtor recommendations, one wants a bunch of docs (I'm self employed), the other already gave me a rate of 4.6% for 900k w/ 30% down 30 year fixed. I checked bankrate and I get a handful of options at 4.25%, but I figure there's other ways they can get ya and I don't know if bankrate is reliable or not...

  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Uh, this risks taking this thread very far off topic, but anyone got tips on choosing a lender? I submitted applications for two lenders based on realtor recommendations, one wants a bunch of docs (I'm self employed), the other already gave me a rate of 4.6% for 900k w/ 30% down 30 year fixed. I checked bankrate and I get a handful of options at 4.25%, but I figure there's other ways they can get ya and I don't know if bankrate is reliable or not...
    NOT BofA!
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  3. #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Uh, this risks taking this thread very far off topic, but anyone got tips on choosing a lender? I submitted applications for two lenders based on realtor recommendations, one wants a bunch of docs (I'm self employed), the other already gave me a rate of 4.6% for 900k w/ 30% down 30 year fixed. I checked bankrate and I get a handful of options at 4.25%, but I figure there's other ways they can get ya and I don't know if bankrate is reliable or not...
    Credit unions are pretty awesome.
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  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    NOT BofA!
    I actually had OK experience with them, but that was mostly because guy I worked with was good. He now left to Wells Fargo. I can recommend him as easy to deal with.

  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Uh, this risks taking this thread very far off topic, but anyone got tips on choosing a lender? I submitted applications for two lenders based on realtor recommendations, one wants a bunch of docs (I'm self employed), the other already gave me a rate of 4.6% for 900k w/ 30% down 30 year fixed. I checked bankrate and I get a handful of options at 4.25%, but I figure there's other ways they can get ya and I don't know if bankrate is reliable or not...

    That's a jumbo loan and probably pretty close to what your gonna pay, 4 1/2%. I don't believe Bankrate is the actual lender but looks for the best rates so it's would be like asking Zillow for the exact value of your home. It's only a guide. And good luck contacting one of those lenders on Bankrate site and holding them to their Bankrate quote. They can simply say rate changed today as I'm sure there's a disclaimer somewhere on the site that says rates subject to change. Best bet is ask several lenders in your local area and tell them your talking to 2 other people and planning on buying and need a pre qualification. The rate will be better that way.

    OBTW, pre 2008 is gone so yes, you'll have to provide paperwork. Tax returns, etc, etc and whatever else they ask for. And they'll keep asking! Remember, the lender you choose is not the actual lender. They are simply the originator of the loan and in many cases the servicer. Banks, especially the too big to fail will not keep your loan. They want nothing to do w/ the risk of a 30 year 4.5% fixed rate loan. They are far too smart for that. They'll let Wall St or the Federal Housing Finance Agency (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, etc) take ALL the risk while they collect the upfront fees and servicing fees. Oh yeah, they'll collect the administrative fees and legal fees what the property goes into foreclosure. Welcome to the "good old too big to fail club".

  6. #906
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    That's a jumbo loan and probably pretty close to what your gonna pay, 4 1/2%.
    Not necessarily a jumbo loan as there are county specific exemptions, What Are Jumbo Loans in California? | Home Guides | SF Gate

  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    Not necessarily a jumbo loan as there are county specific exemptions, What Are Jumbo Loans in California? | Home Guides | SF Gate
    $625500 is the max conforming in the most expensive Counties so if his loan is 900k, he's Jumbo. If his purchase price is 900k w/ 30% down, that's 630k so he's close. The difference in rate isn't much though as the only secondary market for conventional conforming loans are either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac.

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    With jumbo you'll need to buy mortgage insurance which will add a bit to the total.

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    Thanks for the feedback. I suddenly recalled that on our previous purchase, after I got the first quote I immediately forwarded it to a 2nd broker, and then took his quote and forwarded to a 3rd one. They all beat each other by like .1% IIRC. It only took about 2 hours.

    I am trying to get under the 622k in King County. EDIT: it's actually 667k in King County as of Jan 1 2018.

    The amount of documentation is pretty crazy eg they want to contact my current landlord and my wife's manager... uh, we haven't told either of them our plans and I don't want to scare them at this point since we're just looking. It could be a year or two before anything happens.

  10. #910
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    You should be able to get a pre qual w/o the extra calls, etc. And Jumbo doesn't require mtg insurance. That is only required if the LTV if higher than 80% and not in all cases.

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    I think as the lender knows our realtor, they think she wanted us to get underwritten too. But calling our landlord is pretty scary. We try to make no noise whatsoever, it seems like the rent goes up each time there's contact...

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    I had to go through the same thing. I had to get a letter from my landlord saying that I was a good tenant. My company's HR was a bit of a nightmare. They are there to protect the company from potential lawsuits, not care for the employees. Hence they verified my total comp, stock package, bonus, etc but would not say that my employment was "likely to continue" or that I'd even get a bonus next year. Since a bonus is a large part of how we do compensation here this caused quite a few headaches.

  13. #913
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    Is that check with HR typical for underwriting? My wife's company employs 193,000 people and HQ is in Paris, France. I don't think they'll even get a reply if they try to write them a letter. I am tempted to see how much worse a second home mortgage would be, as then this shouldn't be an issue.

    Even if we get a primary residence loan, I don't think I would move mid school year as arranging school and aftercare, say, at some random point in October or February sounds like a giant PITA.

  14. #914
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    From my understanding yes, employment verification is always part of mortgage underwriting.

  15. #915
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    I looked through a year of photos and picked out some favorites from the Gorge for y'all.Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-psx_20170630_105012.jpgWant to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20171028_152038-gorge-fall.jpgWant to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-rednecks.jpg

  16. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Is that check with HR typical for underwriting? My wife's company employs 193,000 people and HQ is in Paris, France. I don't think they'll even get a reply if they try to write them a letter. I am tempted to see how much worse a second home mortgage would be, as then this shouldn't be an issue.

    Even if we get a primary residence loan, I don't think I would move mid school year as arranging school and aftercare, say, at some random point in October or February sounds like a giant PITA.
    A second loan home mtg will be the same documentation. All loans are sold on the secondary market which means the requirements are the same for every lender unless it's a real hard money lender but you'd know if it is as the rate will be sky high like 8-11%!!

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    A second loan home mtg will be the same documentation. All loans are sold on the secondary market which means the requirements are the same for every lender unless it's a real hard money lender but you'd know if it is as the rate will be sky high like 8-11%!!
    Yeh but a second home they won't ask HR at least, since we wouldn't be moving.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Yeh but a second home they won't ask HR at least, since we wouldn't be moving.
    They did for me, they want to verify your employment so you have income to pay the mortgage. HR should be apart from your boss anyways, so this should theoretically not affect your status with your company.

  19. #919
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    I submitted paperwork to Watermark Home Loans which was one of the cheaper options on bankrate but still great reviews. They're saying Im good for 4.25% and the fees are in line w the others. Using the same tactics of asking "can you do better than the other guy?", I'm going to see if I can get insurance agents to duke it out for our renters, homeowners, and car policies. So maybe this whole exercise has some positive side effects.

    Between estimated payments, retirement contribution, and what I owed the gubament for 2017 they've wiped out half my cash though. Pretty brutal. The messages from the mortgage people said not to make any large transactions, heh!

    EDIT: Im thinking of dragging my slopestyle or MTB up to SEA, it's only $25 on Alaska (vs $75 on SWA) each way-- just need a case. Duthie was pretty sweet. There's dirt jumps in Bellingham and Vancouver. Will report back on how these stack up.

    EDIT 2: The weather up north seems to be turning. Lookin' real good.
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  20. #920
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    I appreciate parts of that drive between Shasta and Vacaville. The oak tree studded hillside and the occasional empty prairies without any construction or even telephone poles or towers. Not dramatic, but rare to get that in california unless you go to the deserts, far north or east side and even then you have to go looking for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    I returned last night. Gawd that 11 hour drive from the Gorge back to San Mateo is painful. It's beautiful for the first six hours, especially in Spring when there's still snow on the mountains, but after Shasta it's monotonous till you hit the Bay Bridge (you get ample viewing time as you crawl through the maze, even at 7pm on Sunday). At least 5 and 505 through Corning and the other boring flatness are mostly civilized and well paved; just turn on cruise control and some music. The merge onto 80 is a rumbling, shaking, potholed reminder that you are back in the land of dog eat dog driving and cratered roads. I've driven smoother fire roads in OR than bits of 80 and 101.

    Over the last half decade I've mostly avoided prolonged bad weather, but not this time. It was mostly cold, cloudy, and drizzly or rainy, with the exception of Friday. I could see how half a year of this could be very depressing. I still got more riding in than normal anyway, even though you can't ride Post Canyon year round, and I somehow lost five pounds despite generous dinners and two beers/day minimum. Also, half the time it was raining, it was snowing in the mountains. I found neither Mt Hood Meadows or Timberline particularly great skiing (Timberline is especially flat), but Timberline has many terrain parks. I've never ridden these but gave it a shot and it was a lot of fun, even with the wrong skis and no idea how to ride many of the features. A good excuse to start a conversation with a passerby. The fresh snow made crashes cushy. Both of these ski areas are also way easier with kids. Timberline didn't even require a ticket for my son or his friend. My son said skiing their easy run was the highlight of his week.

    One other note, but there were signs that a snow park parking pass is required, but I don't have one. I wonder how much the ticket is hehe...

  21. #921
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    man..Vancouver Island would be awesome for me to live. that place is stunningly beautiful.
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  22. #922
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    Condemned Fremont home sells for $1.23 million: 'The buyer bought the dirt'

    https://www.sfgate.com/realestate/ar...e-12838774.php

    I'm originally from the Bay Area.Lots has changed since I left.
    Prefer smaller towns and warmer weather as I get older.

    We really liked Oregon.But the winters got to us and we moved back to California.Might just stay in Auburn and buy A vacation home in the south west region ,when we sell our Oregon home.

    And I plan at looking at areas that have gravel and mountain bike trails in the area.Really have no idea yet.

  23. #923
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjbnum3 View Post
    POrefer smaller towns and warmer weather as I get older.
    Half the bay area just blew a fuse! I'm not sure where this "we have the best weather ever" mantra comes from.

  24. #924
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    Where is better weather? San Diego hills? Hawaii? What else?

  25. #925
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    LA? Utah? Colorado? Somewhere I don't have to wear a jacket every summer night and don't get 7 amber alerts when the temp hits 85F.

  26. #926
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    Utah and Colorado? LA??? Over Bay Area? (SF excluded, all the commie hippie liberals can have it and its fog and bums).

    Just no. No, no, no. And I like Utah.

  27. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Utah and Colorado? LA??? Over Bay Area? (SF excluded, all the commie hippie liberals can have it and its fog and bums).

    Just no. No, no, no. And I like Utah.
    I have no idea what you're saying here.

  28. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    I have no idea what you're saying here.
    He is saying that the weather sucks in all those locales compared to the bay area.

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  29. #929
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    I grew up in California, (Bay Area, Sierras) lived there for 36 years... now live in Wa state.
    You couldn't pay me to live in California now with what's going on down there.
    In fact I don't even want to set foot in that state. I'll leave it at that...we're all riders and more the same than we are different so I won't get political.

    Great weather in the Bay Area? Sure...if you like air you can see.
    I hate landing on Oakland/smog-fest to visit family in the East Bay...no more.

  30. #930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post

    Great weather in the Bay Area? Sure...if you like air you can see.
    I hate landing on Oakland/smog-fest to visit family in the East Bay...no more.
    So much this. The air you can see is as bad as LAís now. Even SF has a layer of smog around it.
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  31. #931
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    So much this. The air you can see is as bad as LAís now. Even SF has a layer of smog around it.
    Pretty much every large city does. Denver does. As does that dump Colorado Springs.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Pretty much every large city does. Denver does. As does that dump Colorado Springs.


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    Fair enough...but more rain in Wa keeps things a clearer on average.
    I did a lot of my growing up in Fremont, and I don't recognize that place anymore.
    Just can't do it.

    I may end up on Montana down the road if I can make it work from a job standpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Pretty much every large city does. Denver does. As does that dump Colorado Springs.


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    What? You donít like the Springs?

    Iím thankful I live north and west of Denver and slightly higher than it. Also, with it much drier here than the Bay Area, it doesnít bother me. Additionally, the Bay Area has some of the highest particulate matter in the country. That does bother me. Denver is ozone, which does not.

    And we get enough wind gusts and rain to clear it out. It just hangs out now in the fog and humidity in the Bay Area, along with all the allergens.
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  34. #934
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    What? You donít like the Springs?

    Iím thankful I live north and west of Denver and slightly higher than it. Also, with it much drier here than the Bay Area, it doesnít bother me. Additionally, the Bay Area has some of the highest particulate matter in the country. That does bother me. Denver is ozone, which does not.

    And we get enough wind gusts and rain to clear it out. It just hangs out now in the fog and humidity in the Bay Area, along with all the allergens.
    I live in Palmer Lake. Well north of COS. I only go there when absolutely necessary. But I can look down from one of the climbs here and see the layer of smog there.

    Not surprising for a city with more pickup trucks than average and little to no public transportation.



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  35. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit21 View Post
    ...
    Great weather in the Bay Area? Sure...if you like air you can see.
    I hate landing on Oakland/smog-fest to visit family in the East Bay...no more.
    Ok... not perfect but let's not make stuff up now.
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  36. #936
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    Afternoon breeze from the ocean makes it quite nice and clean on my hill. Bit more of a concern in office.

  37. #937
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Ok... not perfect but let's not make stuff up now.
    No ones making that up. The air quality in the Bay Area is one of the worst in the country.
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    I can see the brown hanging over the city from the bay trail. It comes and goes.

    BTW, don't you all go running too fast after this one right near me...Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-screen-shot-2018-04-23-10.21.33-pm.jpg

  39. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    So much this. The air you can see is as bad as LAís now. Even SF has a layer of smog around it.
    It's more a layer of smug



    The city has become a parody of itself. Look at this whole scooter debacle. SF people who don't dare complain about the real problems now have something that's more of a minor annoyance to shift their anger towards.

  40. #940
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    I can see the brown hanging over the city from the bay trail. It comes and goes.

    BTW, don't you all go running too fast after this one right near me...Click image for larger version. 

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    3300 square foot, hot home!!! And the landscaping is integrated inside the house!
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  41. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    No ones making that up. The air quality in the Bay Area is one of the worst in the country.
    #13 by ozone according to Most Polluted Cities | American Lung Association Right before Denver at #14. Salt Lake City at #18.

    San Mateo county though quite a bit better than Bay Area average. Does not feel too polluted between Burlingame and Redwood city.

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    not all of the Bay Area air is bad.

    representing the northbay:
    Sonoma County posts California’s top grade for air quality
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  43. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    not all of the Bay Area air is bad.

    representing the northbay:
    Sonoma County posts California’s top grade for air quality
    Yeah, it's a big place. I love the ocean breeze.
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    As long as you're to the NW of the central bay, then you get the advantage of those NW prevailing winds. Marin Co. is pretty darn clean. We do get the odd high pressure and inversion stuff, but that's rare.

    Now, the South Bay? FUUUUUUCK that. I'd rather be broke in Oregon than clocking the big bucks down there.

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    I can see the brown hanging over the city from the bay trail. It comes and goes.

    BTW, don't you all go running too fast after this one right near me...Click image for larger version. 

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    This is a steal!!!!!!!!

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    There's never been a better time to buy real estate!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    This is a steal!!!!!!!!

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    Has anyone talked about Austin in this thread. Any personal experience? Thx.

  48. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's more a layer of smug



    The city has become a parody of itself. Look at this whole scooter debacle. SF people who don't dare complain about the real problems now have something that's more of a minor annoyance to shift their anger towards.
    Scooter debacle? I missed this one. Please fill me in.
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  49. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    #13 by ozone according to Most Polluted Cities | American Lung Association Right before Denver at #14. Salt Lake City at #18.

    San Mateo county though quite a bit better than Bay Area average. Does not feel too polluted between Burlingame and Redwood city.
    Itís not the ozone that bothers me. Itís the particulate matter. The Bay Area has been in the top 10 for some years now.
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  50. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Itís not the ozone that bothers me. Itís the particulate matter. The Bay Area has been in the top 10 for some years now.
    Not in the western counties. And itís trending down. Hopefully with all the electric cars we will export pollution to where poor people burn coal.

  51. #951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Not in the western counties. And itís trending down. Hopefully with all the electric cars we will export pollution to where poor people burn coal.
    Bay Area is still number 10 in long term particulate matter and 6 in short term particulate matter.

    http://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/...ed-cities.html


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  52. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    Scooter debacle? I missed this one. Please fill me in.
    https://m.sfgate.com/bayarea/article...e-12832354.php


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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-20180425_211128.jpgSeattle, we meet again.
    Last edited by fc; 04-26-2018 at 08:39 AM.

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    You picked a good time to ride. This past week has been absolutely gorgeous, and today will be too. The trails are fully dried out, and the next few days will be cloudy with light rain possible that will make the trails super tacky, and get some moisture back in the loam. You'll get the classic PNW super lush and mossy vibe, with hero dirt.

    Know where youll be riding? what bike did you bring?

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    The bike is a Transition Scout. Will hit Duthie Saturday. Today likely Chuckanut since wife wants to drive to Vancouver. Not sure we have time for Galbraith... But maybe on the way back tomorrow.

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    Get the wife to give you a shuttle bump to the top a couple times, and do double black - double down a couple times with a lunch break for the family at the top viewpiont and it will only set you back about 1.5-2 hours. The trails will be pretty blown out after the race last weekend, and the dry sunny weather the past week, but those trails are super fun. advanced trails, but not overly rowdy.

    Cleator Rd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robbiezero View Post
    Has anyone talked about Austin in this thread. Any personal experience? Thx.
    i love Austin. the summer is brutal. absolutely brutal.

    i met a girl there and ended staying a year. (my mom was pissed). it did wonders to my college career as well. dumb..

    anyways Austin is nice. my cousins live there, and it is friggen expensive as well. and traffic blows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i love Austin. the summer is brutal. absolutely brutal.

    i met a girl there and ended staying a year. (my mom was pissed). it did wonders to my college career as well. dumb..

    anyways Austin is nice. my cousins live there, and it is friggen expensive as well. and traffic blows.
    If austin had mountains, it would be ideal. Cheap housing (compared to anywhere else id really want to live), awesome funky culture that is a liberal oasis in otherwise conservative Texas. Great lakes and boating/fishing, does have MTB, but is pretty meh, though the BMX scene is world class. Huge college means sporting events, educated people, and young population. Ridiculously awesome music scene, great cheap food, night life, very good economy, no state income tax, etc.

    But, without mountains, i could never live there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Get the wife to give you a shuttle bump to the top a couple times, and do double black - double down a couple times with a lunch break for the family at the top viewpiont and it will only set you back about 1.5-2 hours. The trails will be pretty blown out after the race last weekend, and the dry sunny weather the past week, but those trails are super fun. advanced trails, but not overly rowdy.

    Cleator Rd.
    Do you know how long it takes to do a loop at Galbraith? I figured on the way back to Seattle we could park at Whatcom Park and then I'd ride up to Unemployment line->Atomic Dog.

    I wonder what advanced means in Bellingham. I can't ride the advanced jump lines at Duthie.

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    Could do a 1 hour lap of Uline to Atomic Dog if youre hustling even a little bit. Honestly though, If i was you id skip galby and just get these guys to shuttle you at Chuckanut again: https://www.intrinsicflow.com/chuckanut-shuttles/

    That way you can let the wife and kid do their thing in Bham for an hour or two while you do your thing. Plus, youll know the trails pretty well after today so you can really let it loose, and the dirt should be primo after some moisture gets back in it.


    Advanced just means some steep tech parts etc. Everything open to the public that is not a specified jump line will be rollable, or have a go around.

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    Ok thanks. I dirt jump more than I MTB so I think Ill still hit Galbraith. I like big berms and I cannot lie.

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    Here we go, just a reminder of perfectionWant to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-screen-shot-2018-04-26-11.33.08-am.png
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    Well my front brake died on the Galbraith climb... Garbage guide brakes. From Whatcom Park it was an hour to the top. Evolution was crazy, U line more reasonable, Atomic Dog was perfect. It was exciting with only a rear brake for sure. The shuttle guy thought I should pass on Chuckanut without a front brake.

    You folks will enjoy the GoPro of Evo and Uline. I'm still sore. I didn't break anything at least.

    In Vancouver now.

    Oh yeh the locals told me I should tell you: don't come to the northwest. It's cold and rainy. Stay in California please.

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    Waiting for the plane back. Quick recap.

    We got two days of great weather. I thought everything from Seattle to Vancouver was stunningly beautiful with the sun out.

    I was most impressed with Vancouver. I normally prefer to avoid large cities (at least in the USA)... they're crowded, congested, dirty and impersonal. Vancouver is (relatively) clean, bike friendly, and the people were friendlier than I expected. Lots of food options.
    It's dense. I didn't get to go MTBing, but I will come back and try it.

    Bellingham reminded me a little of the Gorge. Smaller town with accompanying difference in vibe. Visually, rock cliffs, pine smell in the air, water. About an hour or so to a major city. The pump track in Whatcom Park is merely ok, but Galbraith IS better than Duthie etc (though I think you could get in a quick after work lap or two at Duthie much more easily). Go look around at your favorite real estate website though... I don't know how people make money in Bellingham, but it isn't significantly cheaper than say Seattle. It's also really white. Some folks told us they go into Vancouver fairly often. If you plan on doing that, you'd probably need a Nexus pass; the border wait back into the USA is awful. The real time wait time website was way off-- said 20 minutes but we waited 2 hours. I think I'd drive to Bellingham for a ride on the weekend if I lived in Seattle. It's like driving to Sacramento from the Peninsula (if Sac had awesome riding hehe).

    I explored Seattle more. Drove out to Mukilteo and sat on the rocky beach and watched the ferries. Went out to Fall City, which is maybe 10 minutes from Duthie and sat by the Snoqualmie river. Stopped at a couple lakes on the east side. Peaceful. I also sat through 405N traffic in the morning. Godawful, but it was "only" about an hour fifteen, hour and a half from Renton to Everett. I don't think you could cross the SFBA metro that quickly. Pretty drive.

  65. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Waiting for the plane back. Quick recap.

    We got two days of great weather. I thought everything from Seattle to Vancouver was stunningly beautiful with the sun out.

    I was most impressed with Vancouver. I normally prefer to avoid large cities (at least in the USA)... they're crowded, congested, dirty and impersonal. Vancouver is (relatively) clean, bike friendly, and the people were friendlier than I expected. Lots of food options.
    It's dense. I didn't get to go MTBing, but I will come back and try it.

    Bellingham reminded me a little of the Gorge. Smaller town with accompanying difference in vibe. Visually, rock cliffs, pine smell in the air, water. About an hour or so to a major city. The pump track in Whatcom Park is merely ok, but Galbraith IS better than Duthie etc (though I think you could get in a quick after work lap or two at Duthie much more easily). Go look around at your favorite real estate website though... I don't know how people make money in Bellingham, but it isn't significantly cheaper than say Seattle. It's also really white. Some folks told us they go into Vancouver fairly often. If you plan on doing that, you'd probably need a Nexus pass; the border wait back into the USA is awful. The real time wait time website was way off-- said 20 minutes but we waited 2 hours. I think I'd drive to Bellingham for a ride on the weekend if I lived in Seattle. It's like driving to Sacramento from the Peninsula (if Sac had awesome riding hehe).

    I explored Seattle more. Drove out to Mukilteo and sat on the rocky beach and watched the ferries. Went out to Fall City, which is maybe 10 minutes from Duthie and sat by the Snoqualmie river. Stopped at a couple lakes on the east side. Peaceful. I also sat through 405N traffic in the morning. Godawful, but it was "only" about an hour fifteen, hour and a half from Renton to Everett. I don't think you could cross the SFBA metro that quickly. Pretty drive.
    I think the real test is to drive in any area during rush hour.

    Denver has some miserable traffic too, but I do what I did in the Bay Area and North Carolina: avoid the bad times. Also, I donít commute to the crowded areas like the south side or DTC.

    When I lived in lost Angeles, that was a different story. Traffic was bad all the time. Even 2am on the 405 freeway is rush hour.


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    Also for anyone traveling to MTB destinations:

    I tried demo'ing a bike from a local shop in Feb, but the pickup and drop off both ended up taking about 45 minutes. It was also a bit stressful getting riding in with the 24 hour schedule. On the upside, the demo bike was in great mechanical shape. My bike needs some TLC.

    Alaska will take your bike for $25 each way. No hassle whatsoever. I tagged the bag at home even. Pretty awesome.

    I contemplated getting a Trico hard case for $100 or $150 from Craigslist but got a Evoc bike bag for $350 from Amazon (pretty darn good price). The bag is soft sided but padded very well. It has great reviews and I really like it. Note, my 800mm bars and 27.5 wheels seem to be the limit on size. I have an L frame, an XL should fit no problem, but the wheel pockets were tight. There are only two pockets for loose items (TSA *will* search the bag). I took just my multi tool and a wrench for the pedals. I also undid the derailleur based on some threads here. It took 30 minutes to pack the first time and 15 minutes the second time. One of the benefits of the soft sided case is that you can fold it back up again at your destination; otherwise you might need to get a bigger rental car. We had 5 folks traveling with bags and it was a bit tight getting everything into a Toyota Sienna; we couldn't really get a bigger car.

    I was able to get MY bike and my son's 16 inch in the bag (had to add padding to keep the frames from banging). Weighs about 60 lbs total probably.

    I'm booking another flight to Seattle for memorial day and will also return to Bellingham, let you know how that goes...

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  68. #968
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    Insights from people who came back.

    https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san...y-12710664.php
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    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Insights from people who came back.

    https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san...y-12710664.php
    Sure if it was the way it was before the Facebook IPO, I wouldnít mind (provided my asthma would cooperate). But the bro-factory it is today, no thank you.

    The other thing is I donít look backwardóIím not going that way.

    But if you have family in the area, I get it. Iíve been a nomad most of my life, so Iíll go where it makes the most sense.
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  70. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Insights from people who came back.

    https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san...y-12710664.php
    I love living in Palo Alto. But then again, I've always liked wherever I've lived. I've always found something to work on and something to do, no matter where I was.

  71. #971
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    Some real data here.

    https://www.redfin.com/blog/2018/02/...on-report.html

    Someone read it and summarize pls. Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-screen-shot-2018-04-30-11.58.32-am.jpg
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    Not a summary but quotes:


    - San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C. and Chicago posted the highest net outflows.
    - Fast-growing, mid-tier metros in the Sunbelt, including Phoenix and Las Vegas, and the South, including Atlanta and Nashville, had the highest net inflows.
    - Seattle saw more users looking to leave than to move to the area for the first time since we began tracking this data at the beginning of 2017... 10.6 percent were eyeing Los Angeles, followed by Bellingham, Wash., Portland and Phoenix, each of which captured at least 8 percent of Seattleites looking to leave

    Many of the popular migration paths that we saw Redfin.com users exploring yielded tax benefits along with increased affordability. We expect these trends to continue

    Chicago, Boston, Washington, D,C. and Seattle metro areas continued to inspire loyalty with about nine of 10 users searching for homes in their local area.

    Throughout all of 2017, less than 14 percent of users in Raleigh, Portland, Dallas, Atlanta, Washington D.C., Nashville, Chicago and Seattle looked to relocate.

  73. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Insights from people who came back.

    https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san...y-12710664.php
    Outside of weather, educated people and a very open culture, i just don't get the big draw. Those are all cool, but i can name 3 or 4 cities in NA with 75%+ of all the benefits of the BA, but a much better housing market and more importantly a MUCH better outdoor sports scene.

    To each their own though. Keep pushing up the cost of housing, my parents sure appreciate it, though they can't wait to GTFO.

  74. #974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Outside of weather, educated people and a very open culture, i just don't get the big draw. Those are all cool, but i can name 3 or 4 cities in NA with 75%+ of all the benefits of the BA, but a much better housing market and more importantly a MUCH better outdoor sports scene.

    To each their own though. Keep pushing up the cost of housing, my parents sure appreciate it, though they can't wait to GTFO.
    Which cities are these?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Which cities are these?
    Seattle, Denver area, PDX area, Vancouver BC (suburbs, not proper).

    And then there are other niche options for folks who care less about the benefits of a big metro area: Santa Fe, Bozeman, Burlington, Reno, Cour D'alene, Boise

  76. #976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Seattle, Denver area, PDX area, Vancouver BC (suburbs, not proper).

    And then there are other niche options for folks who care less about the benefits of a big metro area: Santa Fe, Bozeman, Burlington, Reno, Cour D'alene, Boise
    I don't think any of these places offer year round mountain bike riding as we have in NorCal?

    My rationale for living here is: I can mountain bike, surf, rock climb, fly fish, sail, boat/kayak and mountaineer year round in NorCal with relative ease. I can ski 4-6 months out of the year within a few hours of my house. The overall weather in Palo Alto is mild year round, and the natural beauty of NorCal is stunning. Additionally, I have access to a world class culture, cuisine, professional and educational opportunities. I don't know of any other area in the world offers all of this? It is very expensive, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I don't think any of these places offer year round mountain bike riding as we have in NorCal?

    My rationale for living here is: I can mountain bike, surf, rock climb, fly fish, sail, boat/kayak and mountaineer year round in NorCal with relative ease. I can ski 4-6 months out of the year within a few hours of my house. The overall weather in Palo Alto is mild year round, and the natural beauty of NorCal is stunning. Additionally, I have access to a world class culture, cuisine, professional and educational opportunities. I don't know of any other area in the world offers all of this? It is very expensive, however.
    I can mtb pretty year round here in the Denver metro and I donít need a fat bike. Sure there are cold days and riding in snow days, but it doesnít matter to me. It might to you though.

    Water sports are a different story here: very seasonal. People here ski from October to usually June.

    There is culture here, but I know where to find it, and I also donít try to make this California at 5k.

    You have to find what works for you. If the Bay Area works for you, great! For me, it just wasnít my thing. And that whole needing to breathe became a priority.
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  78. #978
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    I can mtb pretty year round here in the Denver metro and I donít need a fat bike. Sure there are cold days and riding in snow days, but it doesnít matter to me. It might to you though.

    Water sports are a different story here: very seasonal. People here ski from October to usually June.

    There is culture here, but I know where to find it, and I also donít try to make this California at 5k.

    You have to find what works for you. If the Bay Area works for you, great! For me, it just wasnít my thing. And that whole needing to breathe became a priority.
    Good points. When my kids go to college I'm going to split my time between Hawaii, California and Europe. Will be an interesting experience! Right now I'm anchored here, but not a bad place to be anchored.

  79. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I don't think any of these places offer year round mountain bike riding as we have in NorCal?

    My rationale for living here is: I can mountain bike, surf, rock climb, fly fish, sail, boat/kayak and mountaineer year round in NorCal with relative ease. I can ski 4-6 months out of the year within a few hours of my house. The overall weather in Palo Alto is mild year round, and the natural beauty of NorCal is stunning. Additionally, I have access to a world class culture, cuisine, professional and educational opportunities. I don't know of any other area in the world offers all of this? It is very expensive, however.
    Yes, Seattle has world class MTB 12 months a year. as does PDX, and vancouver.

    the Seattle area has objectively better biking, mountaineering, rock climbing, and fly fishing than the BA, equal boating, and world class white water if youre into that. It also has much easier access to big mountains that get big snow (45 mins -1.5 hrs)

    Seattle is a world class, international, metropolitan city with nearly equal cultural aspects you mentioned above including education, economic opportunities, etc. The weather is mild, take a look at the monthly temps. I can make similar arguments for all the other places as well.


    Now, this is not meant to be snarky, but if you are one of those people that thinks a temp below 50 degrees is too cold, then all of the places i mentioned are not going to work. BUT, then you have to trade not being near mountains, which is a non-starter for most folks interested in outdoors sports based around mountains.

    From what i have seen traveling around and living in the BA for 20+ years i can confidently say that the outdoor sports opportunities are pretty darn limited in the BA compared to the places i mentioned... and from my perspective, you really arent giving up much in the way of culture, economy, etc to move there. Except burritos. BA is heads and tails is better for burritos.

  80. #980
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Yes, Seattle has world class MTB 12 months a year. as does PDX, and vancouver.

    the Seattle area has objectively better biking, mountaineering, rock climbing, and fly fishing than the BA, equal boating, and world class white water if youre into that. It also has much easier access to big mountains that get big snow (45 mins -1.5 hrs)

    Seattle is a world class, international, metropolitan city with nearly equal cultural aspects you mentioned above including education, economic opportunities, etc. The weather is mild, take a look at the monthly temps. I can make similar arguments for all the other places as well.


    Now, this is not meant to be snarky, but if you are one of those people that thinks a temp below 50 degrees is too cold, then all of the places i mentioned are not going to work. BUT, then you have to trade not being near mountains, which is a non-starter for most folks interested in outdoors sports based around mountains.

    From what i have seen traveling around and living in the BA for 20+ years i can confidently say that the outdoor sports opportunities are pretty darn limited in the BA compared to the places i mentioned... and from my perspective, you really arent giving up much in the way of culture, economy, etc to move there. Except burritos. BA is heads and tails is better for burritos.
    I need to get educated on Seattle and PDX mountain biking. I didn't realize Seattle was running 12 months a year. It rains a fair amount there yes? When I was in PDX I could find very little mountain biking without more than an hour drive.

  81. #981
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Outside of weather, educated people and a very open culture, i just don't get the big draw. Those are all cool, but i can name 3 or 4 cities in NA with 75%+ of all the benefits of the BA, but a much better housing market and more importantly a MUCH better outdoor sports scene.

    To each their own though. Keep pushing up the cost of housing, my parents sure appreciate it, though they can't wait to GTFO.
    Good insight!! Thank you too fitek.

    One of the great draws of the Bay Area was proximity to the beach and mountains. But that proximity has deteriorated with insane traffic during weekends. Friday going to Tahoe?? Afternoons or weekends at the beach? It's a romantic vision that can be a nightmare when not timed exactly right. That snow was hideous this year and my most experienced snow bunnies got caught up in 10 hour drives getting there.

    And where will we be in 3 years? The infrastructure cannot keep up. Heck its not even moving.

    It's a tough issue since folks obviously want to live here for good reasons. Prices only go up for one reason - demand - aka, people want to move in. But the trajectory is not good. And the cash out opportunities keep getting sweeter.
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  82. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I need to get educated on Seattle and PDX mountain biking. I didn't realize Seattle was running 12 months a year. It rains a fair amount there yes? When I was in PDX I could find very little mountain biking without more than an hour drive.
    Lower mtn everything is 12 months a year. The top of the man trail systems are typically rideable 280+ days per year. WA is very low elevation, even the ski area bases are only at 3-4k.

    IF you live in the PDX suburbs it isnt 1 hour to riding. Also, a big thing that i didnt realize existed until i moved out of the BA are unsanctioned trail systems. The prevalence of logging, and the associated logging roads and huge amount of forests mean that folks have spent 10+ years building shuttleable, or private trails off these roads. PDX has these areas, though you wont hear about them unless you know the builders and riders and are willing to throw a little dirt yourself... just gotta chat people up, go on group rides, enter races, etc.

    In only rains in Seattle is the same as saying they dont serve liqour or normal beer in SLC. Its a myth, with a small kernel of truth to it. Yes it is gray much more than you are used to... but the summers up here are better than the BA, and the gray rainy part of the year is when its dark early and puking snow at the ski areas which are an hour away.

    Santa Fe is actually really cool when i looked into it. Cool, funky culture 90 minutes from Taos or angel fire bike park, a ton of cool backcountry MTB trails within an hour, beautiful desert landscape and national monuments, High enough to not be death hot, 6 months of the year, sunny weather, dirt cheap, Super smart people with Los Alamos lab being the biggest employer, etc.

  83. #983
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Good insight!! Thank you too fitek.

    One of the great draws of the Bay Area was proximity to the beach and mountains. But that proximity has deteriorated with insane traffic during weekends. Friday going to Tahoe?? Afternoons or weekends at the beach? It's a romantic vision that can be a nightmare when not timed exactly right. That snow was hideous this year and my most experienced snow bunnies got caught up in 10 hour drives getting there.

    And where will we be in 3 years? The infrastructure cannot keep up. Heck its not even moving.
    OK so I drove from New Brighton Beach State Park in Capitola on Wednesday at noon, home bound for Colorado. 3 hours to Sacramento and average 53 mph. 680 is quite possibly the worst highway I've ever experienced in the country. I even got to the end and had to pay a toll! Eastbound on 1-80 at 2:30pm hit 25-30mph traffic around the Fairfield area. On Wesndesday, 2:30. Not sure how you guys do it if you have to drive everywhere in the bay area to recreate, especially on the weekends. The weather sure is beautiful. But it is here too in Fort Collins, Colorado. And we have the option to ride our bikes to trails to ride sweet dirt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alxrmrs View Post
    It's more a layer of smug. SF people who don't dare complain about the real problems now have something that's more of a minor annoyance to shift their anger towards.
    Smug is thinking that the rest of the Bay Area is immune to the same set of problems. SFís current growing pains are a snapshot of where the whole region will be in 20 years if we stay on the same path. Iím not sure where you get your impressions of ďSF peopleĒ but youíre wrong if you think there arenít plenty of us devoting our energies to fixing things. All Iím saying is the Bay Area at large has some serious hurdles of population growth to overcome, and SF can be a cautionary tale of the consequences of ignoring them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2melow View Post
    OK so I drove from New Brighton Beach State Park in Capitola on Wednesday at noon, home bound for Colorado. 3 hours to Sacramento and average 53 mph. 680 is quite possibly the worst highway I've ever experienced in the country. I even got to the end and had to pay a toll! Eastbound on 1-80 at 2:30pm hit 25-30mph traffic around the Fairfield area. On Wesndesday, 2:30. Not sure how you guys do it if you have to drive everywhere in the bay area to recreate, especially on the weekends. The weather sure is beautiful. But it is here too in Fort Collins, Colorado. And we have the option to ride our bikes to trails to ride sweet dirt.
    Yeah, 680, 80 is our escape to the mountains and it is now locked up ALL the gaddem time. It is so depressing thinking you're getting away leaving at noon but really have very few commute windows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Yeah, 680, 80 is our escape to the mountains and it is now locked up ALL the gaddem time. It is so depressing thinking you're getting away leaving at noon but really have very few commute windows.
    what is really depressing is realizing that your escape to the mountains in the best of conditions is still 3-4 hours away, one way. woof. thats not so bad when you only do it every so often, but when i lived in SF i was driving to tahoe every weekend to ski and 8+ hours of driving wears on your wallet, your back, and your social life.

    Heck you can even avoid the infamous I-70 shitshow from Denver to summit county if you leave early... then the drive is less than an hour to loveland, and 75 mins to breck, key, abay, copper, etc. Non of this 4 hours with no traffic and dry roads BS.

    But the weather, i guess.


    Heck, If a huge metropolitan, liberal, multinational city isnt high on your priority list, then SLC and park city should be high on your list. Best place in the country to be a desk jockey ski bum, PC is officially "MTB City USA", and it actually does have a good amount of fun cultural opportunities... its also really safe, and doesnt have many of the social issues that affect most other big cities.

    The big thing about the Bay is that it is still 2x more expensive to buy a home than somewhere like seattle which people think is a crazy expensive real estate market. Everywhere is dirt cheap in comparison. Everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    what is really depressing is realizing that your escape to the mountains in the best of conditions is still 3-4 hours away, one way. woof. thats not so bad when you only do it every so often, but when i lived in SF i was driving to tahoe every weekend to ski and 8+ hours of driving wears on your wallet, your back, and your social life.

    Heck you can even avoid the infamous I-70 shitshow from Denver to summit county if you leave early... then the drive is less than an hour to loveland, and 75 mins to breck, key, abay, copper, etc. Non of this 4 hours with no traffic and dry roads BS.

    But the weather, i guess.


    Heck, If a huge metropolitan, liberal, multinational city isnt high on your priority list, then SLC and park city should be high on your list. Best place in the country to be a desk jockey ski bum, PC is officially "MTB City USA", and it actually does have a good amount of fun cultural opportunities... its also really safe, and doesnt have many of the social issues that affect most other big cities.

    The big thing about the Bay is that it is still 2x more expensive to buy a home than somewhere like seattle which people think is a crazy expensive real estate market. Everywhere is dirt cheap in comparison. Everywhere.
    Where do you live now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Where do you live now?
    Seattle area now. Moved here about 4 years ago. My thing is skiing, so access to rad skiing was priorities 1 and 2. But i also wanted a multicultural, metropolitan, educated city with cool stuff going on, along with a strong economy. The MTB was a nice bonus that has turned into my main thing 6 months out of the year because this area is the mecca for MTB i got involved with the right people here.

    Was very close to accepting job offers in PDX and Denver though. Happy with Seattle, especially because i bought my condo close to work and dont have to deal with a commute.

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    Curious where everyone's cold threshold is on riding in Winter. And maybe state you age as I think that has something to do w/ it as well.

    We're all different. My Sister lives in Bend. Man it sure does feel a LOT colder there than here in Winter. A LOT!! Personally yes if it's below 50 and the sun is not out it feels cold to me. If the sun is out then in the 40's works. If it's windy, yikes it's uncomfortable.

    Seattle in Jan is like mid 40's during the day and lower 30's to mid 30's night. SF is mid/upper 50's day and mid 40's night and San Jose a bit warmer than SF daytime and a bit cooler than SF night.

    To me, whenever I'm in mid 40's during the day it feels a lot colder than that as that mid 40's is like for an hour or so. It can't possibly feel the same in Seattle in Jan as it feels here. And it's a whole heck of a lot drier in SJ than Seattle and that helps make it feel warmer.

    I'm 60 and do remember when I was 30 I never really felt cold. Maybe that has something to do w/ it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mb323323 View Post
    Curious where everyone's cold threshold is on riding in Winter. And maybe state you age as I think that has something to do w/ it as well.
    41 yrs. I ride down to the mid-low 40s if it's not raining. I prefer riding in the mid-50s rain or shine. Once it gets above 80 I am under pressure. Going harder with no stops keeps me warm. I ride with other people, both older and younger, who prefer riding in warmer weather.

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    30 yr old. I have no problem riding my bike until it dips into the 30's. dry, sunny, rainy, or snowy, you start to lose the ability to brake properly at those temps because your fingers get so stiff, and thick gloves will keep your hands warm, but impede modulation as well. I was riding at whistler a few years ago during a full on winter storm in May that dumped a foot at the top of Fitzsimmons during the day, and it got to the point where you literally could not pull the lever on your brakes... which thankfully wasnt a problem because we were having to milk every ounce of speed out of A-line that we could due to the slop.

    Up here in the PNW, ill ride my bike 12 months a year, but for 4-5 of those months its only when the snow sucks... otherwise i am skiing. what kind of idiot would rather ride a slow bike instead of skis or a board that lets you go 2-3 times the speed on much rowdier terrain, with much lower average consequences? but i digress.

    All i have to do is throw a wool flannel on over my normal synthetic baselayer and ill be plenty warm. that setup even does fine in a light drizzle. When you are working hard its amazing how warm you get. When i ski tour i am usually skinning in just a shortsleeve baselayer and a wool flannel into the mid-upper 20's otherwise i just sweat too much.

    Spending quite a bit of time in the mountains has taught me that you can be totally comfortable in pretty much any weather condition (EXTREME hot, cold and wind excepted), as long as your clothing situation is on point. My parents used to whine and bitch about storm days skiing till they started taking my advice on what outerwear, baselayers, and accessories to buy. The right mix of new tech (waterproof breatheable membranes) along with old school materials (wool, beeswax, down) applied in the correct situations will have anyone nice and comfy in damn near any weather condition.

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    Can anyone comment on rush hour drive times from the far east side to Bellevue and downtown Seattle?

    I'm using Google Maps to give me estimates from Sahalee, Beaver Lake Park, Fall City Elementary but the ranges are like 30 minutes to 1:15... which is the difference between an OK commute and a godawful one. Today it looks like there are 2 accidents on the bridge near Mercer Island and from Fall City is says 49 minutes. No idea if that's typical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    Can anyone comment on rush hour drive times from the far east side to Bellevue and downtown Seattle?

    I'm using Google Maps to give me estimates from Sahalee, Beaver Lake Park, Fall City Elementary but the ranges are like 30 minutes to 1:15... which is the difference between an OK commute and a godawful one. Today it looks like there are 2 accidents on the bridge near Mercer Island and from Fall City is says 49 minutes. No idea if that's typical.
    You DO NOT want to do that commute near rush hour if you value your time outside of a car. But, if you can work a 7am-4pm, or 630am-330pm schedule you should be pretty alright. Fall City into bellevue wouldnt be bad, but i would not suggest fall city to Seattle proper.

    Generally, if you live on the eastside, try to work on the eastside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    You DO NOT want to do that commute near rush hour if you value your time outside of a car. But, if you can work a 7am-4pm, or 630am-330pm schedule you should be pretty alright. Fall City into bellevue wouldnt be bad, but i would not suggest fall city to Seattle proper.

    Generally, if you live on the eastside, try to work on the eastside.
    All the pharma companies are downtown or in Bothell. Darn.


    What do people in Bellingham do for work? The top employers are govt, a hospital, university...

  95. #995
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    People are leaving California, but not the Bay Area.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/...ousing-crisis/

    Want to leave Bay Area. Where to go?-sjm-l-migration-0503-90.jpg
    IPA will save America

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    People are leaving California, but not the Bay Area.

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/...ousing-crisis/

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Arenít there a few articles contradicting this?
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    So if sell my Bay Area home when I retire and buy a nice place with cash in the boonies of White Salmon on the other side of HR... will the local rednecks welcome my California ass with open arms? Or maybe tell me to squeal like a pig...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregd72 View Post
    So if sell my Bay Area home when I retire and buy a nice place with cash in the boonies of White Salmon on the other side of HR... will the local rednecks welcome my California ass with open arms? Or maybe tell me to squeal like a pig...
    I got some gruff from the guy at the WA DOL office (who saw my mailing address) but generally no. Especially if you fit in with the outdoor culture. I definitely keep my CA origins on the down low though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fitek View Post
    I got some gruff from the guy at the WA DOL office (who saw my mailing address) but generally no. Especially if you fit in with the outdoor culture. I definitely keep my CA origins on the down low though.
    I just tell people I grew up in NC. The conversation turns to NASCAR, rifles and Budweiser.

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    Ok Seattle people, how's the area east of Redmond, north of Sahalee? Schools are well rated, houses a bit older but consequently cheaper than Issaquah. I drove 202 and it looks like it could turn into a disaster (it's only two lanes until the entrance to Sahalee, which was busy even on a Saturday).

    Google Maps says its a few minutes longer drive to Duthie but it's a shorter drive to Bellevue so the time in the car after work might not really change much...

    Drive time to Galbraith is slightly shorter.

    Dunno if 520 gets less traffic into Seattle proper since there's a toll road?

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