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  1. #1
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    Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest

    Two Marin doctors charged: riding bikes illegally, resisting arrest

    Ok, take 2 on this as it is a significant event. Also the fact that Marin Independent Journal highlighted this story and they style it's written in warrants discussion.

    excerpt:
    "Two Marin doctors have been charged with riding their bicycles illegally on Marin County open space land where bikes are prohibited and resisting arrest when a Marin County sheriff’s deputy attempted to issue them a citation.The two bike riders are Dr. Paul Cameron, a Corte Madera dentist, and Dr. David Carbonell, an emergency room physician and co-founder of New Paradigm Trail group.
    ...
    The incident occurred on Dec. 12 on the Piedmont Trail in the Baltimore Canyon Open Space Preserve, located southwest of Kentfield."


    Here's a different incident of a mountain biker getting a $400 ticket in the Bay Area for exceeding 15 mph.Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest-22788654_10155677118038213_8971125350843651600_n.jpg


    Discuss but stay on topic and keep it civilized.
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    I’ll start;

    And this is why we can’t have nice things......
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  3. #3
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    "Here's a different incident of a mountain biker getting a $400 ticket in the Bay Area for exceeding 15 mph."

    Lol yeah right, keep it civilized? In what way is that civilized? Thank God I don't live in that area. I might live in Kentucky but at least here the only speed limits on trails are the trees in front of you.

    I somehow don't think this is an issue law enforcement should really be worried about. Maybe they should be doing their real jobs and keeping us actually safe.

  4. #4
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    Oh joy! Another sensationalist anti-MTB MIJ article quoting Linda Novy. Are they still at it? After all these years? Geez. Let them go nuts. The nuttier they get, the better. Most reasonable people reading this will be like wtf? People get arrested for riding bikes? Don't we have more pressing issues?
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
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  5. #5
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    I like how the leader of a trail group is riding on illegal land. Excellent lead-by-example...

  6. #6
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    So sad, I don’t even know any more. Uneventful trail riding, I guess, is what officials are after. Dirt roadie stuff. That’s ok, for workouts, but pretty boring doing laps at Fremont older, fo example.

  7. #7
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    Maybe now that weed is legal in California these land managers might mellow out.........

    just thinking........

  8. #8
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    First of all why is their profession even mentioned in the article? Are doctors historically known as trail offenders or entitled to different legal treatment? Other than that it just sounds like more California over regulation as usual.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSteel View Post
    I like how the leader of a trail group is riding on illegal land. Excellent lead-by-example...
    It's called Direct Action.

    You bring attention to a situation you have little or no control over by defying the law. They accomplished this, now it takes others in mass to keep doing it until the attention brings change.

    It's noble and I respect their sacrifice. Luckily they can afford the fine.

    This would be even more effective if you have 30-40 riders doing this same thing to strengthen the statement.

  10. #10
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    Californians voted for this. Its long been argued that decriminalization of marijuana would free up police resources to go after the real criminals. You'll get used to it... Go torch a bud and you'll forget all about it

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    This incident definitely will prompt some serious discussion, hopefully productive. I live near that trail, know it and some of the parties involved. I understand why the New Paradigm guys are taking this approach, the goodie-two shoes BS does not seem to work.

    Some info on the trail where this occurred. It's fairly well known that Baltimore and Madrone canyons are patrolled (mostly daytime), mainly for people with dogs off leash. (which is the most ticketed offense committed on Marin trails, >10X more than illegal MTB tickets every year) Thus I would consider this a fairly high risk area to be riding.

    Unfortunately this incident will fuel the anti-MTB efforts in Marin even further. I suggest we all be careful what is posted here and on Pinkbike. "They" are watching too....and will dredge up any dirt possible to bolster their war on MTBers in Marin.

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    I don't know much about the "New Paradigm Trail group", but one might guess that this group had something to do with the Paradigm trail in Marin.

    My understanding is that the Paradigm trail was built in the mid-90s as the original FU to the MMWD and other regulatory agencies that restricted singletrack in Marin.

    The trail is still there, and is still ridable and maintained (though you may be fined).
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weaponized View Post
    Californians voted for this. Its long been argued that decriminalization of marijuana would free up police resources to go after the real criminals. You'll get used to it... Go torch a bud and you'll forget all about it

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    Easy now, don't get your chamois in a bunch. It's not really the point of this post.

    If you believe in something stand up for it, come out of your comfort zone and try something radical if that's what it takes. These 2 were willing to defy the law for the rest of the Mountain bike community, support them and think twice before you undermine their efforts on a public forum.

    One thing, when you do actions like this make sure they are represented the way you want them to be. Have a press release ready to go explaining your actions so that they will be included in any press coverage.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone View Post
    Maybe now that weed is legal in California these land managers might mellow out.........

    just thinking........
    Just a guess but I think the land managers here in Marin may have already been dabbling... Medical purposes of course

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  15. #15
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    Bay Area is full of non sense but Marin takes the crown. HOHAs see their anti bike beliefs as a near religious crusade. Best advice would be to move out.

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  16. #16
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    My deck looks onto the trail in question 15 feet over a creek. The riders knew the area to be hot and are experienced locals but didn't expect to meet resistance on a weekday. As noted by others, It's probably one of the trails most ripe for running into a ranger and hikers anywhere in Marin.

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  17. #17
    J-Flo
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSteel View Post
    I like how the leader of a trail group is riding on illegal land. Excellent lead-by-example...
    This is Marin County. Virtually ALL of the land is "illegal." Being a mountain biker here is like being a kid living next door to Disneyland, which is virtually empty, and being told you can't go in; you can only ride a Ferris Wheel in the parking lot.

    When legal rules violate common sense and natural rights and serve no useful purpose, it is the law that is wrong, not breaking it.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    This is Marin County. Virtually ALL of the land is "illegal." Being a mountain biker here is like being a kid living next door to Disneyland, which is virtually empty, and being told you can't go in; you can only ride a Ferris Wheel in the parking lot.

    When legal rules violate common sense and natural rights and serve no useful purpose, it is the law that is wrong, not breaking it.
    Well said.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    When legal rules violate common sense and natural rights and serve no useful purpose, it is the law that is wrong, not breaking it.
    I would quibble about mountain biking being a “natural right” and don’t have any problem with a well-timed poach.

    Describing this kerfluffle as “Direct Action” seems silly to me. It would make sense if they poached, took the ticket and made a big deal about how ridiculous the trail use rules in Marin are. That would highlight the issue.

    IMO, they lost the high ground and killed the opportunity to highlight inequitable access issues when they attempted to evade.

  20. #20
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    Larkspur, where you will get pulled over for having a late model vehicle and Yoga is the dominant religion. Suckers that live there think it is Mar-a-Lago but to me it was more like a episode of Black Mirror.
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  21. #21
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    Makes me want NorCal Forums based on area codes. This stuff about Marin is way too trendy and tired.

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    F the IJ and their dick rider Linda Novy... such a wear out. Linda Novy is no ones bro-vy

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    F the IJ and their dick rider Linda Novy... such a wear out. Linda Novy is no ones bro-vy
    Gee, I wonder why you guys have so many problems.

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    Yes you are right.. it’s me! gtfo lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Gee, I wonder why you guys have so many problems.

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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    Yes you are right.. it’s me! gtfo lol
    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    If you were here I would take a Le duke on your forehead
    Are you an adult?

    Do you realize that your interactions with the world can negatively impact you?

    You're the perfect stereotypical MTB rider for the adversaries of MTB access in Marin. The NIMBY crowd would love you. Or, at least, to make an example of you.

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  27. #27
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    [QUOTE=Le Duke;13488028]Are you an adult?

    Do you realize that your interactions with the world can negatively impact you?

    You're the perfect stereotypical MTB rider for the adversaries of MTB access in Marin. The NIMBY crowd would love you. Or, at least, to make an example of you.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

    Listen la duck... there’s a time and a place for everything and venting about marin bike politics and calling out the marin ij, a totally shit biased local paper, on a bike forum is called having fun.. you should try it sometime.

    For the record... I live here, I was born here, have been riding here but for 20+ years and I reserve my right to call Linda Novy an IJ dick rider thank you very much.


    Now get back to waxing your saddle..

  28. #28
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    I see no issue with what they did and many issues with those that disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    This is Marin County. Virtually ALL of the land is "illegal." Being a mountain biker here is like being a kid living next door to Disneyland, which is virtually empty, and being told you can't go in; you can only ride a Ferris Wheel in the parking lot.

    When legal rules violate common sense and natural rights and serve no useful purpose, it is the law that is wrong, not breaking it.
    Marin hates mtb riders. I’ve ridden their twice and on both occasions we were yelled at by hikers. They also practically dove in the bushes covering their young when we approached. And after slowing down to a stop and offering a friendly hello were greeted in return by a vengeful scowl. I hate to say it, because they win, but I have no desire to go back.

    I’d much rather ride in pretty much every other place I’ve been in CA, where people that love the outdoors can at least fake being nice to each other on the trails that we share and do not own. Just thinking about the NIMBY elitist attitudes gets me fired up.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by noose View Post
    First of all why is their profession even mentioned in the article?
    As a means to embarrass them professionally and/or harm their business. It is a bit below the belt by the article writer to do this. I believe it was very intentional and I noticed it right away when reading the article. You are correct that their profession and work locations are irrevelant to the story. Really their names are irrevelant too. It could be written that "Two men were cited for .... and arrested for resisting arrest.... " but not if you mean to really harm a couple MTB riders that you hate!



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    Resisting arrest for riding away?

    I'm going to guess (without a shred of legal knowledge!) that this will be a field day in court.
    Rolland

  32. #32
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    I think this is a good thing...sorry you got arrested Dave but, this incident is showing everyone that mtb riders are regular people...not thugs. There is definetly mtb hate here in Marin, a lack of legal trails, and a corrupt newspaper printing articles without legit facts. When they are proven wrong, the IJ doesn’t acknowledge it publicly

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustedone View Post
    IMO, they lost the high ground and killed the opportunity to highlight inequitable access issues when they attempted to evade.
    True that. These fellows apparently made an unfortunate mistake, and it won't matter too much whether it was planned or a panicked decision. They were violating an unjust rule, but then allegedly crossed a far more serious line when they refused to stop as directed by law enforcement (assuming that the ranger properly identified himself, was heard, etc.).

    And I should be clear that, although I believe mountain bikers in Marin and a few other places are driven to civil disobedience by the utterly ridiculous rules, that is a far different thing from respect for law enforcement. If a ranger or sheriff asks you to stop, whether it is a legal trail or otherwise doesn't matter; you must stop.

    I'm not suggesting these particular guys are guilty or should be punished; I have no idea and would strongly prefer not. But people should understand: refusing to stop for a law enforcement officer who properly identifies him/herself is a serious matter. All by itself, it can lead to jail time. And it can get much worse. For example, if someone such as the officer is injured in a pursuit that follows, the act of trying to ride away could be a felony.

  34. #34
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    I applaud these guys, all poachers in Marin, and me when I ride "where I want" in Marin. There are great trails to be had. Duffman 1976 doesnt want to ride Tamarancho double loop/add Solstice? No China Camp 4,500 ft of downhill/skinny 8 inch challenging trails? Big Rock super fun uphill/Stinkfist social trail one of the most challenging DH in the bay area? No Tenderfoot uphill/Coastal view super speed DH with a view/Green Gulch climb/DH on Diaz Ridge for chill DH? Marin has some awesome riding and I want you all to ride there. Hell yeah! If you say screw the the rules, you double the amount of riding I just listed that is pretty much all legal riding. AND, you will rarely see hikers on alot of "no bikes" trails. Screw the system when the system fails us as americans. I grew up there in the 70's, riding bmx there since 1974, and still work and ride there, so I really get frustrated by lack of trail access in the last 25-30 years. 25 years of NO PROGRESS! Sad. Marin is great for riding, dont miss out because you got bitch slapped on the trail by some holier than thou human nag. Go Get some! Somebody please start a Go Fund Me page so these good Dr's dont have to pay a dime. Im in for $10, and I am a stingy bass turd!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    I applaud these guys, all poachers in Marin, and me when I ride "where I want" in Marin. There are great trails to be had. Duffman 1976 doesnt want to ride Tamarancho double loop/add Solstice? No China Camp 4,500 ft of downhill/skinny 8 inch challenging trails? Big Rock super fun uphill/Stinkfist social trail one of the most challenging DH in the bay area? No Tenderfoot uphill/Coastal view super speed DH with a view/Green Gulch climb/DH on Diaz Ridge for chill DH? Marin has some awesome riding and I want you all to ride there. Hell yeah! If you say screw the the rules, you double the amount of riding I just listed that is pretty much all legal riding. AND, you will rarely see hikers on alot of "no bikes" trails. Screw the system when the system fails us as americans. I grew up there in the 70's, riding bmx there since 1974, and still work and ride there, so I really get frustrated by lack of trail access in the last 25-30 years. 25 years of NO PROGRESS! Sad. Marin is great for riding, dont miss out because you got bitch slapped on the trail by some holier than thou human nag. Go Get some! Somebody please start a Go Fund Me page so these good Dr's dont have to pay a dime. Im in for $10, and I am a stingy bass turd!
    What’s up Oaktown! I believe my boys showed you and your crew around bass lake when I went down sick that weekend I was supposed to. I would love to ride that stuff and have rode some of it which was awesome but the vibe I got was a buzzkill. But now I’m getting pumped up to go back and throw up the middle finger to them all. Maybe we should organize a big group ride de resistance!!! I know a few others that would be down also!

  36. #36
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    There you go man! Screw these (upper) middle aged bike haters. Shoot, Im middle aged now. Damn. Yeah, I had no idea that was you, but thanks for setting up Nat and the rest of us with Curtiss/Jack/Vinnie. Awesome down there. Fresno? Fres-Yes! Yeah when you guys get up to Marin, we'll show you the goods, most all bike legal is super fun 1st few times. Just put your head down when yelled at, and we'll take the flak for ya, were used to it. Its really not very often, when we treat other trail users with respect. But haters gonna hate!

  37. #37
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    This is why I just avoid Marin. Why spend my money in a place where I disagree with their vehement anti bike views?


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  38. #38
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rglsr View Post
    This incident definitely will prompt some serious discussion, hopefully productive. Some info on the trail where this occurred. It's fairly well known that Baltimore and Madrone canyons are patrolled (mostly daytime), mainly for people with dogs off leash. (which is the most ticketed offense committed on Marin trails, >10X more than illegal MTB tickets every year).
    As for naming the alleged poacher mtbr's, I'm willing to bet that more than half (definitely being conservative here..)of the 10 fold "off leash" dog walkers ticketed are higher up the tier prominence wise and doubt their names were plastered in public print.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  40. #40
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    I've tried and failed to change this dynamic in Marin County. I've attended countless meetings, met with the land managers and proposed 8 different trail alignments. All of them sustainable with 8% average grade that would have been crucial connectors for the cyclists that were arrested last month. Every single one was rejected by Jon Campo of Marin County Parks. I was successful helping to get a small but fun flow trail built on private property near Fairfax in 2012. It is still the only bike specific trail in Marin County. At less than a mile long it does not meet the needs of such a large group of recreation enthusiasts. For about 7 years of my life I did everything I could to change the dynamic that led to these arrests and I failed. So I'm sorry for that. However, I must say that the dynamic that led to these arrests is only going to get worse. Off road cycling is growing in popularity and the trails that we use to be off road cyclists are slowly disappearing. The road and trail management plan for Marin County Parks is a failure. There are so few places to ride that riding illegal trails is inevitable for every off road cyclist. Currently we only have access to 35 miles of narrow trail in Marin. Which amounts to about 8 percent of the total narrow trail mileage of over 375 miles in Marin. The road and trail management plan was meant to change this dynamic and for sure it has been a total failure. All the cycling community can do at present is to come together to vote down measure A the next time it comes to vote. If we do these Sheriff Deputies will not be on the Open Space trails. If that was the case last month: no one would have known that the two doctors enjoyed their bike ride.

    The only way out of this mess is to vote down Measure A when it comes up for vote again. If A4B and MCBC don't accept that the RTMP is a failure and rally the community this will become the status quo for Marin. You will see more and more arrests. More intimidation and we will be written off as a joke of a usergroup which I feel has already happened.

  41. #41
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    [QUOTE=seamarsh;13488038]
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Are you an adult?

    Do you realize that your interactions with the world can negatively impact you?

    You're the perfect stereotypical MTB rider for the adversaries of MTB access in Marin. The NIMBY crowd would love you. Or, at least, to make an example of you.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE

    Listen la duck... there’s a time and a place for everything and venting about marin bike politics and calling out the marin ij, a totally shit biased local paper, on a bike forum is called having fun.. you should try it sometime.

    For the record... I live here, I was born here, have been riding here but for 20+ years and I reserve my right to call Linda Novy an IJ dick rider thank you very much.


    Now get back to waxing your saddle..
    Thats gonna leave mark.
    A cop a day, puts the biker away.
    Anyhoo, as someone who's evaded the man in Marin, many times, and have lived to tell the tale, I've also been chased and caught.
    Much better to stop, if you have to, and take your punishment like a man.
    If they're making a statement I get it, but it's gonna get real expensive for them now.
    I wonder if they got their bikes confiscated?
    Maybe if they were on E-bikes they might have gotten away?...
    Now go poach something in solidarity.

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  42. #42
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    I agree with some other posts, that mentioning the professions of these riders is an attempt to discredit and harm them as professionals. That is BS. I disagree with some of the regulations on my local trails (sunset closure) and poach once a week.

    Stupid regulations are just that. Stupid. Me, riding at night, after working all day, should not be a f*ing crime. Going over 15mph on a trail, is not a f*ing crime.

    CA - focus on real problems. You have plenty to choose from.

    Davey Simon and other CA locals - keep up the good fight.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  43. #43
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    Always three sides to the story. Probably too soon to speculate on what actually happened but I concur that naming the persons and listing their professions is beyond the scope of what I would consider pertinent. I'm with tjkm - there are much bigger fish to fry and more important stories to tell in the press.

  44. #44
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    Discuss but stay on topic and keep it civilized.

    I was kind of proud to have the name M A R I N on my bike.
    Still am,
    but I'm happy living here.

    Sad to see such a fuster~cluck with an area like that, so many rider population and zilch ride options.... damn.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Maybe if they were on E-bikes they might have gotten away?...
    Coffee is now dripping out my nostrils.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    please start a Go Fund Me page so these good Dr's dont have to pay a dime. Im in for $10, and I am a stingy bass turd!
    Or you could give to them direct to show your support.
    https://www.facebook.com/NewParadigmtrailgroup/

    What about a trail style critical mass? Calling all bikers in NorCal to come to Marin and ride in mass in the name of trail access. I would make a special trip from my foothill perch.

    I'm wondering, are there just way to many hikers in Marin or is there really a solution to this access issue. Like could a system like they use on the flume trail in Tahoe work with odd and even days on certain high use trails?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossterioso View Post
    Or you could give to them direct to show your support.
    https://www.facebook.com/NewParadigmtrailgroup/

    What about a trail style critical mass? Calling all bikers in NorCal to come to Marin and ride in mass in the name of trail access. I would make a special trip from my foothill perch.

    I'm wondering, are there just way to many hikers in Marin or is there really a solution to this access issue. Like could a system like they use on the flume trail in Tahoe work with odd and even days on certain high use trails?
    It will never happen. The off road cycling community is not cohesive enough to pull this off.

    What the Marin off road cycling community needs to do right now is unify and work together with Marin County Dog and other groups that are being effectively punished by Measure A. If we can vote down measure A when it comes up for vote a lot of these endorsement issues will go away.

    The land managers have already shown they are unwilling to work with the off road cycling community. Seldom projects are approved and when they are we are told there is no budget to implement them. Our only hope is to defund enforcement at this point.


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    As a San Diego resident I'm completely ignorant as to the plight of Marin county mtbers.

    On the surface it sounds worse than conditions faced here. In the mid 90's a conservation plan was enacted to preserve the quickly vanishing open space lands. Population and consequently development was at a fever pace. The "MSCP" essentially classifies the saved open space as habitat preservation. Little if any thought was given to the fact that if you build houses adjacent to open space, those residents WILL enter the open space and without an existing trail system will track aimlessly creating a spaghetti maze of crap trails.

    Add to that. The City had a pyramid scheme retirement package for employees that bankrupted the city. They couldn't afford to patrol every square inch and ticket.

    For years the "Fight Club" mentality was pervasive (still is to a large extent) and 'non-sanctioned' building was as common as fresh vomit outside of a bar at 2am.

    That all pretty much blew up 10 years ago with environmentalists adopting a less than favorable opinion of all cyclists. I've sat of the Citizen's Advisory Committee of a local Open Space preserve for most of that time and many of those meetings were quite ugly affairs. Over time I think we've all softened on our hard line stances and respect has replaced open disdain.

    The war was in regard to new acreage being added on which significant unidentified trails existed. The firm contracted to survey the land and produce a management plan document did a non-stellar job. Quite apparent they 'mailed it in' as opposed to actually putting boots on the ground.

    The new acreage was all supposed to be undisturbed core habitat and the outing of the trails, which needed to happen if we were to get any of them legalized, prompted WWIII.

    Approximately half of the trails were officially adopted but how do you make the other half disappear? Most of the local riders know what is legal and what isn't but the lack of enforcement and an overactive sense of entitlement means that fences, signage and so forth are constantly vandalized.

    As a local trails advocate, these selfish actions by the riders is cutting my legs out from underneath me and only acts to further demonize our user group. The city is now ratcheting up enforcement . . .

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    The worst thing we ever did was approve the money to hire more rangers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_twin View Post
    The worst thing we ever did was approve the money to hire more rangers.
    The approval process was disguised as a program to formally adopt social trails and build new trails to create new opportunities for the off road cycling community.

    With a few exceptions this has not occurred. What is worse is that the RTMP has created a community of have and have nots.

    The haves being the San Geronimo Valley and the have nots being the Novato area.

    Probably not a coincidence that the head of A4B and the head of MCBCs off road program both live in the only community that saw some positive change.

    The rest of us have been left in the dark. Region 3 of the RTMP plan was an unmitigated disaster and Region 4 was nearly as bad.

    Again nothing has been clearer to me now. The only path forward for off road cyclists is to defund the enforcement efforts. Which is the core component of Measure A.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    As for naming the alleged poacher mtbr's, I'm willing to bet that more than half (definitely being conservative here..)of the 10 fold "off leash" dog walkers ticketed are higher up the tier prominence wise and doubt their names were plastered in public print.
    The IJ is literally an activist paper for their agenda... I have respectfully written the editor and even had a back and forth with Dick Spotswood... they do not care.. hate to use this analogy but its fake news..

    They do not want to be impartial! They refuse to look at this objectively.

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    Proper use of equestrian gounds!!!! Yeahhhhh, go kids go.

    Was stoked to see this at JMP horse corral this morning. Kids are wearing in what could be a gem in a few weeks. Classic! Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest-img_1303.jpg

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    how far out do you have to get to avoid this kind of stuff? north of Sac?

  54. #54
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    It's all fun and games until you're north of the Rainbow Tunnel and why my family and I won't spend a single moment or cent in Marin County now unless it's at a specific spot.

    Now as for P.C. and D.C. well, let's see what you're gonna do gents. Mount a strong defense and then a successful counter suit and I'll be impressed.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    It will never happen. The off road cycling community is not cohesive enough to pull this off.

    What the Marin off road cycling community needs to do right now is unify and work together with Marin County Dog and other groups that are being effectively punished by Measure A. If we can vote down measure A when it comes up for vote a lot of these endorsement issues will go away.

    The land managers have already shown they are unwilling to work with the off road cycling community. Seldom projects are approved and when they are we are told there is no budget to implement them. Our only hope is to defund enforcement at this point.


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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Hit where it hurts


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    Exactly. It’s the only way out of this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by mossterioso View Post
    I'm wondering, are there just way to many hikers in Marin or is there really a solution to this access issue. Like could a system like they use on the flume trail in Tahoe work with odd and even days on certain high use trails?
    From my perspective the main issue with Marin is not a large number of hikers, but rather that a few of them are vocal anti-anyone-but-me types, and MTB'ers are funneled into the most crowded hiking "trails" (mostly fire roads) and not allowed to have or build any separate trails, sharply increasing crowding and conflict possibilities.

    True "trail conflict" is a mostly imaginary problem in my experience, but it does sell newspapers. There will always be a few random inconsiderate idiots, and obviously some of them are hikers, some on bikes, and some on horses. That's not news. If there were actually a conflict problem, it could easily be solved in any number of ways. Parallel trails, directional trails, allowing odd/even day access to other trails, etc. But under the bogus guise of "safety" we are crowded on to the same fire roads where most of the occasional hikers are -- which of course does not help safety at all and only increases the chance someone will be startled and then, remembering that unpleasant experience, thinks other MTB'ers will do the same. MTBs are legal only on some of the major thoroughfares and banned from most of the vast web of hundreds of miles of official and unofficial singletrack that covers the open space, water district, NPS, and state park land. Most of the time, there is literally nobody on the singletrack more than a mile from any trailhead.

    It doesn't get much press, but the situation in the East Bay is much worse. There is less open space, far more population, and much more of an issue with crowded trails, yet again we are shunted on to the fire roads only (with a few notable exceptions). People think the MMWD is bad, but the East Bay MUD is even worse -- bikers are banned from 100% of EBMUD land and many trails require a permit even for hikers. I'm talking about trails that are within 100 yards of 50mph roads. This is gradually changing as the anti-bike forces are weaker in the East Bay, and many of the land managers get it that MTBs are one of the only growing parts of their user base (and particularly kids). We have an East Bay version of the Linda N o v y nut job (Mike V) but he lost whatever shred of credibility he might once claimed to have when a jury convicted him of assaulting MTB'ers.

    The funny thing about all of this is that even the angriest hiker will tell you that out-of-control off-leash dogs are by fair the biggest cause of trail conflicts. Somehow the Marin IJ, a pathetic excuse for a newspaper, thinks that stirring the tired pot on MTB issues is more likely to grab attention.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post

    Listen la duck... there’s a time and a place for everything and venting about marin bike politics and calling out the marin ij, a totally shit biased local paper, on a bike forum is called having fun.. you should try it sometime.

    For the record... I live here, I was born here, have been riding here but for 20+ years and I reserve my right to call Linda Novy an IJ dick rider thank you very much.


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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    The IJ is literally an activist paper for their agenda... I have respectfully written the editor and even had a back and forth with Dick Spotswood... they do not care.. hate to use this analogy but its fake news..

    They do not want to be impartial! They refuse to look at this objectively.
    I use to deliver as a kid some 45+ years ago. Reside in Sonoma Cty currently and not picked up a copy in I don't remember how long.....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    MMWD is bad, but the East Bay MUD is even worse
    At least Marin has trails worthy of poaching. I drive drive the East Bay to Marin quite often to ride.
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    Heh, the Fairfax Nextdoor thread regarding this article is a treat. Thankfully, the "this is ridiculous/live and let live" crowd seems to be outnumbering the "oh dear bicycles are lawless criminals" crowd.

    Yet another example of the smug entitlement some in Marin seem to be afflicted by and the reason my partner and I are planning on leaving.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    At least Marin has trails worthy of poaching. I drive drive the East Bay to Marin quite often to ride.
    EBMUD has trails far outside of the east bay that are still off limits to bikes. It’s a shame as they are mostly deserted.
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  63. #63
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    The cycling community is relatively small with regard to the rest of Marin Co. residents. Other than a comparable amount of hikers and other trail users types, most Marinites don't give this issue a second thought... Until they open their IJ

    This is a perfect example of how a press entity with a political agenda can influence their base with slanted facts, omission of counter facts, unnecessarily providing irrelevant details of "offenders" and pandering to the desires of local politicians and ultimately their flocks of haters.

    People believe what they choose to believe and in this case The Marin IJ will always have the upper hand in this decades long battle for equal access.

    #fightfakenews

  64. #64
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    I've often thought that I want to come down and ride the trails where it all began. Then, I realize what I have a mile form my house and I count my blessing that we have as few trail conflicts as we do.

    With only 40% of Annadel open due to the fire, I see WAY more hikers now than I normally encounter and with very few exceptions, people are friendly and happy to share.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    The IJ is literally an activist paper for their agenda... I have respectfully written the editor and even had a back and forth with Dick Spotswood... they do not care.. hate to use this analogy but its fake news..

    They do not want to be impartial! They refuse to look at this objectively.
    Nailed it! I basically said the same thing before before the last version of this thread burnt down

    ...but the much larger issue here is that I am simultaneously impressed, amazed, but also disappointed that the this comment has just sat here for a whole day with no recognition or acknowledgement of the phrase "had a back and forth with Dick Spotswood"

    This needs enter into the lexicon immediately - I will notify the proper authorities, and unfortunately I will likely be having a lot of back and forth with Dick Spotswood with all of this rain, but not enough snow

    Carry on...

  66. #66
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    When I first started riding, I revered Marin as the birthplace of mountain biking. Now I see it as the place where mountain bike hate was born, galvanized and institutionalized.

    Marin mountain bike feature....Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest-screen-shot-2018-01-08-8.19.34-am.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Pride View Post
    how far out do you have to get to avoid this kind of stuff? north of Sac?

    Napa Valley is pretty bike friendly and getting new trails all the time. Moved up here from Marin and love the riding so far...

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brah View Post
    At least Marin has trails worthy of poaching. I drive drive the East Bay to Marin quite often to ride.
    Crazy quote. Mountain bikers in the bay area are like scavengers.

    A long time ago, I hosted a hardcore Marin mountain biker on my best legal local trail (914 trail in Skeggs i think). We heard a rustling on the trail ahead and he ran off into the bushes and hid. I said, "what the hell are you doing???"

    He said, "Oh, I thought that was a ranger. And this trail feels illegal."

    We laughed for a while.
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    Arrested on Piedmont trail, eh?
    Am I really the first one to call shenanigans?

    Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest-shenaniganns.jpg

    So lets recap.
    Two Male Medical professionals on a midweek ride are issued citations on a trail that literally backs up to houses for the full .6mi, and has no STRAVA segment....

    https://youtu.be/9oj8CbLRrvM

  70. #70
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    GoGo Gordo, can you explain a bit more about stopping? For some of us, it will be a split second, game time decision to flee, or take ticket. Whats your opinion from experience? Depending on terrain and energy level I flip flop on wether or not I will stop. Sooner or later I will be face to face with a potential ticket. I have been verbally warned 3 times now, that I am on a No Bikes trail. But its probably been 10 years of carefree singletrack bliss, since last warning.

  71. #71
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    ^(T.Max)...and your point is?

    I'm so far removed from this scene (Marin County) it's mostly to feed my sense of morbid curiosity that I post this. I want to be subscribed when the courtroom proceedings are over.

    RE "Direct Action"; it really never works well for bicycling, especially recreational biking. To conflate the struggles of race or gender equality with the desire to ride a bicycle only entrenches the views of those dismissive to our sport.

    RE listing the professions of the scofflaw doctors; it's pretty normal for the press to do this when arrests are made. It helps distinguish identities; "Joe Blow" the carpet layer does not need to be impunged by what "Joe Blow" the doctor may have done. Or vice versa.

    BTW ever notice that bicycle trail access in the Greater Bay Area is inversely proportional with the distance from the Golden Gate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    ^(T.Max)...and your point is?
    Point - "If" one wanted to get caught by a ranger, Piedmont Trail is a great place to start.
    Given the pedigree of the gentlemen involved, its only logical to posit the question.
    The rest was just me being snarky.

  73. #73
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    The title sounds like the start of a joke: "Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest..." walk into a bar and order drinks. The first biker says: _______________

    Lets make a story - fill-in the blanks.
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    "Did you see that rangers shoes?"
    "Yeah", says the second biker, "He had horse sh!t on one and dog sh!t on the other"
    "Bet he wishes MTB were legal"
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  75. #75
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    Marin IJ is taking every effort to shame these two riders and their businesses. They're doing that with the title and the writing as they operate with extreme prejudice.

    They want to lynch these two gentlemen and set an example for all mountain bikers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.Max View Post
    Point - "If" one wanted to get caught by a ranger, Piedmont Trail is a great place to start.
    Given the pedigree of the gentlemen involved, its only logical to posit the question.
    The rest was just me being snarky.
    Sounds like you're saying they wanted to be caught and they ran so the more severe charge would bring public attention?

    Maybe so; I hope they talked it over with counsel beforehand.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    ^(T.Max)...and your point is?

    RE "Direct Action"; it really never works well for bicycling, especially recreational biking. To conflate the struggles of race or gender equality with the desire to ride a bicycle only entrenches the views of those dismissive to our sport.
    Thank you for mentioning this, I've seen or heard these comparisons made on other occasions and not only does it do what you've mentioned, it dismisses the struggles of those who are dealing with, you know, real issues. (AKA, life and death stuff)

  78. #78
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    I doubt the New Paradigm guy wanted to be caught. The group's been pretty quiet on Facebook of late, and the RTMP meetings are more or less done (right?). Given the lack of other announcements or efforts of late, I think this was just a random event.

    I understand the desire to ride singletrack (and I've been known to ride by a "no bikes" sign from time to time). But if I'm the leader of the New Paradigm Trail Group, I'd think really hard about poaching, doubly so about doing it in a highly populated area, and even more so about running from a law enforcement officer. He's going to have a hard time standing up at a public meeting without having his comments dismissed by the decision maker or getting raked over the coals by the footpeople.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSteel View Post
    I like how the leader of a trail group is riding on illegal land. Excellent lead-by-example...
    If the originators and first leaders of the sport of MTB didn't ride unofficial, unsanctioned or closed to bikes trails the sport wouldn't even exist or be anywhere near what it is today.

    This goes the same for much more significant issues like civil rights. Sometimes leaders have to break the rules too.

    Also, to be clear, I'm not equating a leisure pastime to human rights but merely the methods needed to advance a cause.

    Marijuana is legal because enough people in California have used it and know that it is not dangerous and have voted to make it so. If everyone had been following the law no one would have used it and no one would care to make it legal. Also when leaders and otherwise "upstanding" folks like doctors make it known that they use marijuana it raises the legitimacy of being a user.

  80. #80
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    Break Unjust laws

    If the law suck break it!
    There use to be a time when smoking pot would land you in jail.
    There use to be a time when blacks where not allowed to vote (they are still not allowed by different means today)
    There use to be a time when drinking booze was a crime


    One day: there use to be a time when riding your bike was a crime!

  81. #81
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    Two Marin doctors cited for illegal riding and resisting arrest

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Marin IJ is taking every effort to shame these two riders and their businesses. They're doing that with the title and the writing as they operate with extreme prejudice.

    They want to lynch these two gentlemen and set an example for all mountain bikers.
    It’s just another example of no good deed goes unpunished.

    Attempt to change the off road cycling status quo in Marin and one had better mind themselves.

    It is made even worse by those in the community who are claiming “bad example”. There is zero legal bike access into Baltimore Canyon and out to Larkspur. Cyclists are given two choices. Impossibly steep fire roads into a neighboring city or dangerous roads with motorists known to the public for committing assault on cyclists.

    That choice and the following: ride your bike “illegally.”

    Who knows the real story here? I don’t. I’ve been yelled at by hikers before and kept riding wanting to avoid confrontation. That could happen to me again and this time be an LEO. Due to the presence of surveillance cameras I could be arrested at my home after the fact.

    I’d have to report the arrest to the FAA, my employer and even my aviation medical examiner. It certainly wouldn’t make any job interviews going forward very simple.

    We are ignoring the real issue. Off road cycling is being pushed out of public spaces with Measure A money. A tax measure that was sold to the public as a way to increase cycling access.


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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    It’s just another example of no good deed goes unpunished.

    Attempt to change the off road cycling status quo in Marin and one had better mind themselves.

    It is made even worse by those in the community who are claiming “bad example”. There is zero legal bike access into Baltimore Canyon and out to Larkspur. Cyclists are given two choices. Impossibly steep fire roads into a neighboring city or dangerous roads with motorists known to the public for committing assault on cyclists.

    That choice and the following: ride your bike “illegally.”

    Who knows the real story here? I don’t. I’ve been yelled at by hikers before and kept riding wanting to avoid confrontation. That could happen to me again and this time be an LEO. Due to the presence of surveillance cameras I could be arrested at my home after the fact.

    I’d have to report the arrest to the FAA, my employer and even my aviation medical examiner. It certainly wouldn’t make any job interviews going forward very simple.

    We are ignoring the real issue. Off road cycling is being pushed out of public spaces with Measure A money. A tax measure that was sold to the public as a way to increase cycling access.


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    What is the language of measure A? Does it specify how the funds were supposed to be used? Is how the funds are being used public information? Are there any lawyers in here with a little free time, an obsessive and possibly vindictive personality?
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  83. #83
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    Equating MTB with civil rights isn't a winning argument. Just on a legal basis, recreational activity doesn't carry the same kind of presumptions and protections. Others point out how poorly it is perceived by outsiders, so no need to repeat that.

    But as for pot, if the percentages were the same for mtbers (in other words, equal numbers of pot smokers and mtbers) then we'd have a much larger user group with more representation on boards. But even with a majority of Americans having smoked pot, it took a really long time to legalize on a state-by-state level, and the federal government is still playing to its puritanical base.

    I'm not saying don't poach (although think carefully about where, when, and how you do it). But a known poacher who runs from the law isn't going to get a seat at the table if/when the time comes to discuss trail access.

    I know this has been tried before, but the argument that I think works best in the transitional period (where the old blue hairs are aging out of government/the population, and younger users are coming into positions of power) is the connection with nature/stewardship angle. Kids are inside playing video games, and even when those videogames send them outside (e.g., Pokemon Go) they're still staring at a screen and not making a connection with the land. About 25 percent of Marin trail users are doing so on a mountain bike, and that number is growing. If these users are shut out of public lands, they won't devote the resources later on to protecting them.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaro View Post
    What is the language of measure A? Does it specify how the funds were supposed to be used? Is how the funds are being used public information? Are there any lawyers in here with a little free time, an obsessive and possibly vindictive personality?
    The county has already played their hand. They have spent the money on enforcement and left off road cyclists in the dark. A lawsuit would be a waste of time.

    The measure will come up for vote to be renewed or struck down in the next few years. Our community should be 100 percent committed to voting no on the measure. We also need to build alliances with other groups being punished by excess enforcement. Namely dog walkers.

    I’m going to try and convince A4B to follow up on this next month. I’m not optimistic.

    MCBC is a lost cause as they receive 40-60K of County funds per year and have already demonstrated their actions under this conflict of interest.


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    The grant on spending is pretty broad (see "Exhibit A" at the end here: https://www.marincountyparks.org/~/m...anceno3586.pdf). Allocating funds to enforcement is explicitly allowed under (B)(1)(a)(vii), among other provisions.

    Measure A funds aren't being spent as we want them to be (on building more trails, or opening more trails to mountain biking). The measure passed overwhelmingly (75% in favor, 66% required to pass). A coalition of "no" votes is necessary, and dog owners would be a great place to start. Anyone know anyone at Marin County DOG?

  86. #86
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    GoGo Gordo, can you explain a bit more about stopping? For some of us, it will be a split second, game time decision to flee, or take ticket. Whats your opinion from experience? Depending on terrain and energy level I flip flop on wether or not I will stop. Sooner or later I will be face to face with a potential ticket. I have been verbally warned 3 times now, that I am on a No Bikes trail. But its probably been 10 years of carefree singletrack bliss, since last warning.
    Well Hoolie if a ranger tells you to stop, you should do it.
    Most rangers wait at strategic points, i.e.: uphill transitions, places were the trail slows down, in bushes where bikes have to slow down and the such, so it makes it much more difficult to get away and then you have to stop.
    When one poaches one makes the decision to make the trail no matter what, But sometimes, your number is up and youve got to take your medicine.
    Getting a tickets no big deal, but fighting it is, and numerous tickets can ratchet up the fight.
    Members take note.

  87. #87
    Moderator Moderator
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    I don't know anyone at Marin County Dog, but they have a facebook page and website with public contact information.

    There are also over 2k disgruntled Marin golfers who are upset about the county decision to use Measure A funds to turn the San Geronimo golf course into open space:

    https://www.change.org/p/the-marin-c...mo-golf-course

    I was horrified when I read that MCBC supported the golf course "conversion" plan. The extremist conservation groups in Marin (SPAWN, Marin Audubon, MCL...) supported the golf course purchase and MCBC chose to support them. I am 99.9% sure that the extremist groups will oppose bike access on the golf course land. The land is not really big enough to add meaningful bike trails anyway. MCBC should be advocating for livable communities, sustainable housing, etc., along with sustainable transportation. There is a nice wide bike lane on SFD between Fairfax and the golf course and that land could have been turned into an agri-hood, tiny home community, etc. MCBC could have then advocated for a painted or protected bike lane between Fairfax and the golf course. MCBC also could have chosen to align with other recreation groups to lobby for increased emphasis on human recreation on public land - dog walkers, golfers, boaters, anglers, etc. Boaters and anglers are increasingly impacted due to restrictions on dredging, increased designation of shoreline land as wetland, etc.

    I think we would need clear proof that Measure A money is going to increased enforcement... stats, graphics, etc. that can clearly make the point on social media, public meetings, etc. Very few people will read the fine print of the ordinance and exhibit. It would be tough to get Marin to vote against Measure A in the future, but I know I will. Skimming the fine print of the exhibit shows a strong emphasis on land conservation and a much smaller emphasis on recreation.

    Ultimately, I do believe that the conservation laws, especially CEQA, need to be changed for any real improvement to happen. Marin Audubon is still in the process of suing the county over the RTMP's hypothetical future impact on the spotted owl. Korten has publicly declared that the owls are well-monitored and doing fine. But, the CEQA law allows Marin Audubon to derail the RTMP, at taxpayer expense, even though it is worse than BS - it is hypothetical BS.

    What if I could sue Dunkin' Donuts, because I might hypothetically get fat by eating their donuts in the future? Most sane people would understand that a law that enabled that kind of lawsuit is in need of reform. The extremist groups in Marin that fight paved and unpaved bike infrastructure derive their power from CEQA. They have the power to stop projects, stall the EIR process for years and threaten / force county counsel to deal with CEQA litigation...

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmon4day View Post
    "Did you see that rangers shoes?"
    "Yeah", says the second biker, "He had horse sh!t on one and dog sh!t on the other"
    "Bet he wishes MTB were legal"
    "did you see that ranger trying to catch us"
    "Yeah", says the second rider. "No way he could catch us on our e-bikes".
    "when he finally give up, I heard him say he needs a drink, where do you think he is going" says the first rider, as the officer walks in the door...
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by noose View Post
    First of all why is their profession even mentioned in the article? Are doctors historically known as trail offenders or entitled to different legal treatment? Other than that it just sounds like more California over regulation as usual.
    All professionals are expected to maintain high standards of ethics, even in their personal lives. I'd wager that physicians and dentists have a lower rate of committing crime than the general population by a significant margin. So yes, it is certainly something I'd want to know.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Well Hoolie if a ranger tells you to stop, you should do it.
    Most rangers wait at strategic points, i.e.: uphill transitions, places were the trail slows down, in bushes where bikes have to slow down and the such, so it makes it much more difficult to get away and then you have to stop.
    When one poaches one makes the decision to make the trail no matter what, But sometimes, your number is up and youve got to take your medicine.
    Getting a tickets no big deal, but fighting it is, and numerous tickets can ratchet up the fight.
    Members take note.
    LOL.. GGG is the expert on poach-and-ditch. Just ask him.
    But if you have a personal encounter with the rangers of MMWD that doesn't align with his idea of how it's supposed to happen.. And you share that experience on this forum, he calls bulls!t So be warned.

  92. #92
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    Since only one side of Dave C has been presented by the Marin IJ. I thought I'd share the other side here. I wonder if someone would write something like this for me if I got in trouble. Probably not.


    "Hi there,
    My name is ***. I’m a senior at redwood high school and I’ve been mountain biking for a number of years now. I recently came across the article “Two Marin doctors charged: riding bikes illegally, resisting arrest” and was horrified to see that I instantly recognized the name Dr. David Carbonell. Dave was a coach of mine my freshman and sophomore year on the redwood high school mountain bike team, and quickly became a role model that I looked up to. Despite being over 30 and in the midst of his fourth year of chemotherapy, Dave never failed to leave all of us high school kids in the dust on a climb or a descent. He was super kind, and was without a doubt most of the team’s favorite coach. I noticed in the article that Dave had no comment about his actions. And while I believe they were wrong, I have a comment that I hope can be of use to you. Dave is an asset to this community. His work with youth in the area has had impacts on many teens life by helping them discover and master mountain biking, a passion that a lot of us will continue throughout our lives. While Dave should’ve stopped when law enforcement tried to bust him, I completely understand why he didn’t. He didn’t stop because he didn’t want to pay a large fine (my first one was ~$350, not $45) for unjust laws with absolutely no logical backing that disallowing cyclists from using a fair and necessary share of open space land. And clearly he doesn’t always follow the “no bikes allowed” sign, but having ridden with Dave for over two years I have never seen him be disrespectful or disruptive towards other trail user groups, ride recklessly or out of control, or damage trails by riding irresponsibly. However I have seen dave at countless trail maintainable sessions, high school mountain bike practices/races, and a handful of mountain bike advocacy meetings. He’s a great guy, and while he has messed up he doesn’t deserve the possibility of imprisonment for his actions.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by halcyon99 View Post
    I don't know anyone at Marin County Dog, but they have a facebook page and website with public contact information.

    There are also over 2k disgruntled Marin golfers who are upset about the county decision to use Measure A funds to turn the San Geronimo golf course into open space:

    https://www.change.org/p/the-marin-c...mo-golf-course


    What if I could sue Dunkin' Donuts, because I might hypothetically get fat by eating their donuts in the future? Most sane people would understand that a law that enabled that kind of lawsuit is in need of reform. The extremist groups in Marin that fight paved and unpaved bike infrastructure derive their power from CEQA. They have the power to stop projects, stall the EIR process for years and threaten / force county counsel to deal with CEQA litigation...
    You can sue them for that. You’ll lose, but you can and they will need to defend it. I’m no lawyer so take what I say with a whole jar of salt. It’s likely that the case will get thrown out before it gets very far, however they’ll still have to pay their lawyers to do a few things. The same thing could theoretically be done to whoever is bringing suits using CEQA. Make an argument they are denying the public the opportunity to use public lands by their lawsuit. May or may not win but they’ll spend money they would otherwise have to sue others defending themselves. Lawsuits don’t have to be about winning but applying different types of pressure that the recipient may not be able to endure regardless of who’s right or wrong.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  94. #94
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    LOL.. GGG is the expert on poach-and-ditch. Just ask him.
    But if you have a personal encounter with the rangers of MMWD that doesn't align with his idea of how it's supposed to happen.. And you share that experience on this forum, he calls bulls!t So be warned.
    I'm not a psychiatrist but do you have something to get off your chest?
    I have no idea who you are or what your trying to say...
    Use your big boy words please.
    And how does it pertain to this thread?

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Well Hoolie if a ranger tells you to stop, you should do it.
    Most rangers wait at strategic points, i.e.: uphill transitions, places were the trail slows down, in bushes where bikes have to slow down and the such, so it makes it much more difficult to get away and then you have to stop.
    When one poaches one makes the decision to make the trail no matter what, But sometimes, your number is up and youve got to take your medicine.
    Getting a tickets no big deal, but fighting it is, and numerous tickets can ratchet up the fight.
    Members take note.
    Running from cops is a bad idea.
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

    Mike Vandeman Sucks Dong

  96. #96
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Running from cops is a bad idea.
    My point exactly.
    Good luck all!

  97. #97
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    Riding in Marin sucks; everyone is highly advised to stay away. The trails are all boring fire roads that only go uphill; it's crazy-crowded with hikers, runners, and horses; the mountain bikers are all middle-aged private equity guys on $10k bikes; the rangers get bonuses for writing tickets, and it's always cold and windy. Hell, if I didn't live in Ross I wouldn't even consider riding here.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Running from cops is a bad idea.
    They did not run, they rode. (:
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    I'm not a psychiatrist but do you have something to get off your chest?
    I have no idea who you are or what your trying to say...
    Use your big boy words please.
    And how does it pertain to this thread?
    I tried using big boy words. But you're too inhibited to communicate as an adult so I dumbed it down just for you

    This entire thread is about poach-and-ditch Something we've all been relegated (sorry for the big word) to if we wish to ride the ST in Marin Co.

    But this thread is your pièce de résistance.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...am-890100.html

  100. #100
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee29 View Post
    I tried using big boy words. But you're too inhibited to communicate as an adult so I dumbed it down just for you

    This entire thread is about poach-and-ditch Something we've all been relegated (sorry for the big word) to if we wish to ride the ST in Marin Co.

    But this thread is your pièce de résistance.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...am-890100.html
    uh, ok mr. troll. Still not sure what your trying to say but you sound like an undercover Linda Novy.
    Note to self, add Truckee29 to my ignore list.

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