Is it time to upgrade my 2015 geometry?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    PokeyOne
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    Is it time to upgrade my 2015 geometry?

    2015 Enduro 29 has newer Lyrik with lower offset and a offset bushing in the shock.

    Drivetrain is now Eagle, and suspension has been tuned a bit. Wheels are freshly rebuilt and seatpost was serviced too.

    The bike does get it done very well, and it is currently running very well..

    Is it time to buy a new frame with the latest 2020 geometry and maybe some extra stiffness?

    It's going to be a pretty big chunk of money, even with some recoup from selling the old frame.
    Is the latest generation of geometry better enough to warrant the expense?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclemech1 View Post
    2015 Enduro 29 has newer Lyrik with lower offset and a offset bushing in the shock.

    Drivetrain is now Eagle, and suspension has been tuned a bit. Wheels are freshly rebuilt and seatpost was serviced too.

    The bike does get it done very well, and it is currently running very well..

    Is it time to buy a new frame with the latest 2020 geometry and maybe some extra stiffness?

    It's going to be a pretty big chunk of money, even with some recoup from selling the old frame.
    Is the latest generation of geometry better enough to warrant the expense?
    Short answer: No. Do it only if the upgrade bug bites you bad enough and youíve fallen for slick marketing.


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  3. #3
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    Yes. My dad has a 2015 Enduro S-works and I wouldnít race that bike now if you paid me. Newer bikes are so much more planted, with the long, low, slack thing, and they also pedal better. My riding is night and day more confident on my current bike, compared to when I would jump on his bike because mine was out of commission.

    But donít go and get a 2018/2019 Enduro, because then youíll end up with a whole new set of problems.

  4. #4
    PokeyOne
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    Time to start Demo-ing I suspect.

    I have been following the (always rehashed) Best Tahoe Bike thread because the ride profile fits me (and about 98% of the rest of us)

    Holy Ravioli!!!
    The cost of kit I am interested in is starting to skyrocket!
    Latest frame, Eagle X01, solid suspension and carbon wheelset ~ $8000

    If I get a second job so I can afford a new bike, I won't have any time to ride it.

  5. #5
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    Buy frame only. Much cheaper if you have decent parts or a way to get parts at cost.

  6. #6
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    "modern" geometry?

    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclemech1 View Post
    2015 Enduro 29 has newer Lyrik with lower offset and a offset bushing in the shock.

    Drivetrain is now Eagle, and suspension has been tuned a bit. Wheels are freshly rebuilt and seatpost was serviced too.

    The bike does get it done very well, and it is currently running very well..

    Is it time to buy a new frame with the latest 2020 geometry and maybe some extra stiffness?

    It's going to be a pretty big chunk of money, even with some recoup from selling the old frame.
    Is the latest generation of geometry better enough to warrant the expense?
    how much riding per week?
    miles /elevation
    Do you race?

    Do you know what is "modern" geometry?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post

    Do you know what is "modern" geometry?
    Not really since what is ďstandardĒ changes every other year...

    Is this modern?

  8. #8
    PokeyOne
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    A frame would be a good idea, as all the rest of my current rig is new.

    So... Who beat everyone to the punch with new geometry?

    Is there a 29er frame that is a couple years old that I can score a deal on, that is considered modern geometry?

    Norco?
    Transition?

    The Hightower LT seemed to be the benchmark, but that was tweaked a bit for the MegaTower revision.

    I have not looked much at the European bikes.

    Orbea?
    Comencal?
    Cube?

  9. #9
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    I seem to remember the Orbea Rallon being one of the first modern geometry bikes. Not sure if you can find a frame however.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SikeMo View Post
    I seem to remember the Orbea Rallon being one of the first modern geometry bikes. Not sure if you can find a frame however.
    I've actually been thinking about selling my Rallon frame... It's such a fantastic bike but I'm just in between sizes.

  11. #11
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    My 2015 enduro has that weird 142+ plus axle size in the back. Just something to be aware of when upgrading frames.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Not really since what is ďstandardĒ changes every other year...

    Is this modern?
    Definitely, "western" modern. Take that to the east coast and it wouldn't be much fun, at all.

  13. #13
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    You might not like modern geometry. Try before you buy. Myself, I am not a fan of crazy long trail bikes that have pedal strikes all the time and donít turn if you donít lean the bike over in the corners.

  14. #14
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    Just demo some bikes. You will be able to see right away if you want to upgrade or not.

  15. #15
    fc
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    Good day to upgrade tomorrow!!!!
    IPA will save America

  16. #16
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    I was thinking the same thing last weekend as my 2015 Stumpjumper carbon evo blahblah looks 6" shorter than the new scott genius when it was in the back of the truck. It was a little shocking, my buddy who came off a similar Stumpy said it took some getting used to but he is a gifted rider and seems to be tearing it up.

  17. #17
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trespinero View Post
    I was thinking the same thing last weekend as my 2015 Stumpjumper carbon evo blahblah looks 6" shorter than the new scott genius when it was in the back of the truck. It was a little shocking, my buddy who came off a similar Stumpy said it took some getting used to but he is a gifted rider and seems to be tearing it up.
    Six inches shorter?? Dayummmmmmm.

    Crazy huh? I like the new geometries and components for sure like 1x and droppers. They're version 3.0 of mountain bikes as our 1.0 bikes were basically converted road bikes.

    Much safer, more fun, but you might be longing for more rowdy, aggressive terrain to challenge yourself and the bike, especially if you get a lot of suspension travel.

    So I tell folks, if you're happy with what you're riding now, and riding a lot and progressing, stick with what you have. But if you're bike-curious, try the new stuff. It's not a marketing scam as the new bikes are really good.

    Specialized Enduro releasing today is a prime example.
    IPA will save America

  18. #18
    rj2
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    I'm on a 2013 Giant Anthem Advanced X 29. I increased the fork travel to 120, which reduced the head tube to 70į, and converted to 1x. Works great.

    For me, it takes about 5 to 7 years before I can really notice solid improvements in bike tech.

    The 2019 Pivot Mach 4 SL with Fox Live Valve is amazing. Everything is easier. The relaxed head tube angle makes time stand still during descents compared to my Anthem.

    Demo some bikes. Lots of great choices.
    We take care of your technology needs so you can focus on what's important.

  19. #19
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    A couple of months ago I upgraded my 2015 Ibis HD3 to a 2019 Yeti SB130 LR. With about 300 miles on my new ride at this point, I can confidently say that the Yeti is a strictly better bike for me.

    Even though the Yeti has less travel, I can ride more confidently ride down gnarlier tracks than I ever could on my Ibis. It also pedals uphill better, corners better and gives up little (if anything) in terms of maneuverability. I'm riding more, and progressing faster as a rider.

    My experience is mostly specific to the SB130, but I expect that you're experience would be similar with many of the new models. 10/10 would recommend upgrading. Not a marketing gimmick.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Just demo some bikes. You will be able to see right away if you want to upgrade or not.
    this

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Good day to upgrade tomorrow!!!!
    Quick visit to Pinkbike this morning has this statement making sense to me now... Keeping up with the Joneses... It's real..

  22. #22
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    Just saying, in June of this year, I bought an aluminum, that's right, ALUMINUM frame, same metal as beer cans and low range cogs on new 12spd, . Took the money I saved with that, bought carbon wheels, Kashima everything, Carbon bar... Came to realize I may have just built the best bike I have ever owned..Well, actually I did.. What I love is small adjustments, like rebound, fork oil weight and tire combo (who am I kidding I ride DHF/DHR religiously, even in Tahoe) and two sets of pedals (one 5/10 clipless on CB mallets and Hard Soles with XTR pedals).. 160mm travel..

    When I take a break, I lean the frame against the tree. Don't care.. When I shuttle, I throw the bike in the truck. When I scratch the bike it is what it is

  23. #23
    fc
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    As good as the outgoing Enduro was, the new one is that good.

    https://reviews.mtbr.com/2020-specia...weight-details

    Is it time to upgrade my 2015 geometry?-e43ea049-7e4c-4554-95bf-5b90af638900-1150-000000dd0804b014.jpg
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  24. #24
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    I'm in the same boat as the OP. Been holding off for awhile now but new geometry is really calling me. My first experience was on the Ripmo... mind blowing that long travel 29 can feel nimble and climb well.

    To the OP... it's not worth it from a financial sense but like most hobbies in life, when does it make sense? I think if you have the upgrade bug, along with finding the right bike that feels "perfect," go for it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    As good as the outgoing Enduro was, the new one is that good.

    https://reviews.mtbr.com/2020-specia...weight-details

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Awesome pic FC. "A picture is worth a thousand words"... that shot just oozes with "FUN."

  26. #26
    fc
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    Quote Originally Posted by HrznRider View Post
    Awesome pic FC. "A picture is worth a thousand words"... that shot just oozes with "FUN."
    Yup. I've never been to Boondocks before and that bike made it sweeeeet!.

    And then I took a current Stumpy suspension over there and i was scared. Exciting nonetheless.
    IPA will save America

  27. #27
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    Is it time to upgrade my 2015 geometry?

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Yup. I've never been to Boondocks before and that bike made it sweeeeet!.

    And then I took a current Stumpy suspension over there and i was scared. Exciting nonetheless.
    Fc Whatís the pecking order for long travel 29 ers now that the new enduro is out?


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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalinas View Post
    Fc Whatís the pecking order for long travel 29 ers now that the new enduro is out?


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    Bikes need ride time by the public before they are proven to be legit.

    Ex: The Marin Wolfridge when it first came out people were amazed and thought it pedaled and descended great. But after a while people started to realized there was so much flex in the rear end it was destroying air shocks. Now I havenít seen one anywhere.



    But I would put the Enduro in the same category as the Megatower and SB150 if itís as good as people are saying.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Bikes need ride time by the public before they are proven to be legit.

    Ex: The Marin Wolfridge when it first came out people were amazed and thought it pedaled and descended great. But after a while people started to realized there was so much flex in the rear end it was destroying air shocks. Now I havenít seen one anywhere.



    But I would put the Enduro in the same category as the Megatower and SB150 if itís as good as people are saying.
    Is the ripmo still in that cohort


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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssalinas View Post
    Is the ripmo still in that cohort


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    No. Those 3 bikes are much more DH oriented. The ripmo is in the ďdo it allĒ category if you ask me. But in my opinion it is still one of the best bikes for what it does.

  31. #31
    PokeyOne
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    Lets revisit this a bit.
    I did some measuring and camparison of my modified 2015 Enduro 29
    Enduro has a 44mm offset Lyrik and a offset bushing in the shock.
    Head angle: 66*
    Seat angle: 75*
    Wheelbase 1190mm
    BB height: 34.5cm

    The numbers are a bit off from the 2020 Hightower, but not terribly so.
    The wheelbase is a lot shorter. The front center is 30mm shorter too.

    The modified numbers on the Enduro look really close to the new StumpJumper.

    Since the huge amount of cash for a 2020 bike will not be in my bank account anytime soon, I will have to appease myself with thought of my exisiting ride being like a new Super Stumpy.

    Any good tips on stiffening up the noticeable wag/flex on the back end of the older bike?

    The new bikes (especially the short link suspension design) feel way less flexible laterally thru he bike.

  32. #32
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    Seeing your avatar sign I can only ass-u-me you work at a shop, in the industry, or take this hobby pretty seriously.....

    That being said, being of the first two in my comments you should be able to get a new frame at a substantial discount. Question is, what about your bike that's leading you to question needing a new one, other than the obvious latest greatest lower slacker longer hyper-marketing? And why so uninformed of all the new toys out on the market and surely plenty of other riders in your social groups to bounce this off of? Just asking...
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  33. #33
    PokeyOne
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    I worked in the industry for a very long time, though that ended in 2002.
    I miss getting employee purchase price from the manufacturers and riding a new bike every 2 years.

    I still do a decent job of wrenching in my garage, but I'm not nearly as in tune with the industry as I used to be.

    Two years ago at Sea Otter, my buddy(2015 Norco Range) and I test rode new YT's.
    We both agreed they were good riding bikes. Noticeably better in my case.
    $3000 better??? Probably not.

    I don't get out to Demo stuff too much. For most everywhere I ride, my 2015 Enduro gets it done pretty well.
    There are riders on the forum that ride a lot of different different bikes.
    I was hoping to get input from those who have just updated their bike.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclemech1 View Post
    Lets revisit this a bit.
    I did some measuring and camparison of my modified 2015 Enduro 29
    Enduro has a 44mm offset Lyrik and a offset bushing in the shock.
    Head angle: 66*
    Seat angle: 75*
    Wheelbase 1190mm
    BB height: 34.5cm

    The numbers are a bit off from the 2020 Hightower, but not terribly so.
    The wheelbase is a lot shorter. The front center is 30mm shorter too.

    The modified numbers on the Enduro look really close to the new StumpJumper.

    Since the huge amount of cash for a 2020 bike will not be in my bank account anytime soon, I will have to appease myself with thought of my exisiting ride being like a new Super Stumpy.

    Any good tips on stiffening up the noticeable wag/flex on the back end of the older bike?

    The new bikes (especially the short link suspension design) feel way less flexible laterally thru he bike.
    I have the same problem, and may be attributed to DT Swiss end caps which fit like crap.

    Could the famous "Boost" hubs, which I actually don't believe, because the spokes are typically 6mm wider apart...not a lot. ( don't start, I are engineer)

    Actually could be the hub frame bearing interface.

    In the meantime, I am experimenting with Enduro angular contact bearings

  35. #35
    NedwannaB
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    Ok. Got it. Sounds like your bike is setup pretty sweet! Not sure what else you could do to settle any upgradeitus. Have you looked at any of the Bible of Bike reviews on Utube? You definitely get a pretty good value with YT, Canyon, Fezarri or Whyte Bikes.

    That LaSal Peak from Fez seems to be a good bike.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  36. #36
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    Best answer is always "it depends".

    Some major manufacturer bikes can be all clapped out after a couple seasons, bearing receptacles ovalizing, proprietary shocks no longer supported, limited suspension tuning options, and so on. One of the best upgrades is custom tuned suspension front and rear IME. This can turn your bike into a battle-axe that can punch way above it's apparent travel-class. Every year, the industry tries to convince us the new shocks and forks are finally fixed and 200% better than the year before, while custom tuned suspension using the same technology from 15-20 years kicks it's a$$.

    I've done, and continue to do, huge epic rides on my 2015 am/enduro rig, big descents, crazy tech chutes, and so on. The changes to bikes don't make that much of a difference. Sure, they'll be some people that buy into the hype and it's not to say that things can't be better, but go do some races and see who is fast on what. You'll quickly realize that the bike doesn't matter much until you are at the very top of the 1% of riders in terms of speed/performance. As humans, we are amazingly adaptable, so to think that you have to have the "latest and greatest" geometry is ridiculous. Some of the seat-tube-forward geometry is out there to offset the saggy nature of some bike's suspension designs, also trying to help replicate the position you get on a lesser-travel bike, so one point is that these factors may not even be affecting you much to start with. Everything comes with a trade-off too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cayenne_Pepa View Post
    Short answer: No. Do it only if the upgrade bug bites you bad enough and youíve fallen for slick marketing.


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    Thereís more to it than marketing. I went from an evil following to a Ripmo and with a 3lb heavier bike, an inch+ more suspension, heavier wheels, etc Iím beating climb PRís from several years ago when I was in way better shape (verified by power meter on road bike). I donít have to devote nearly as much energy to keep the front end down with the steeper STA. DW Link might be more efficient than DELTA but I think the geo helps a lot. Now I have a bike that is perfectly content riding Granite Bay or going to Northstar. I donít ride a ton of mtb due to where I live so I canít really justify having two bikes.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alias530 View Post
    Thereís more to it than marketing. I went from an evil following to a Ripmo and with a 3lb heavier bike, an inch+ more suspension, heavier wheels, etc Iím beating climb PRís from several years ago when I was in way better shape (verified by power meter on road bike). I donít have to devote nearly as much energy to keep the front end down with the steeper STA. DW Link might be more efficient than DELTA but I think the geo helps a lot. Now I have a bike that is perfectly content riding Granite Bay or going to Northstar. I donít ride a ton of mtb due to where I live so I canít really justify having two bikes.
    DW link helps to keep the front end down by not letting the rear squat through most of the travel. Although the Delta is close, it's still a gradual falling-AS curve. Slack front end with 29er wheels helps too. Not to say that the forward seat doesn't help, but there's more going on too.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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