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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Do people actually stop for rangers? I'd just keep pedaling on unless they tried to physically blockade me or something. What are they going to do?

    I've been lucky though, a decade of regularly riding illegal trail in California and zero tickets, or close calls even.
    https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/...isting-arrest/

  2. #102
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    Yeah, I think evading rangers is probably the best chance you'll ever have to say "Don't taze me, bro!"
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    Yeah, I think evading rangers is probably the best chance you'll ever have to say "Don't taze me, bro!"
    Yep, and it's a good way to turn a small problem into a much, much bigger deal.

  4. #104
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    Sigh... I really wish we could get more technical trails in the South Bay Area. I donate to mbosc whenever I can. Not all of us can afford driving to Tahoe or Downieville all the time

    Anyways, riding Demo for now. It's the next best thing near south bay.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    So many anti-cylist comments in that news post. Why are all these anti people living in California?

  6. #106
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    FYI State Park Rangers were recently issued Tasers for the first time. Heard some stories about test firing at each other.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  7. #107
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    Any reports from today?

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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT3 View Post
    So many anti-cylist comments in that news post. Why are all these anti people living in California?
    Whaaa...where you have been? That is the kind of folks that have been moving to CA for decades, post-Okies. They are anti everything they aren't into.

  9. #109
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    Fire at Rincon right now. And to think that the fine for a campfire in Pogonip is half of the fine for riding a bike on the wrong trails.

  10. #110
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    This fire sounds scary. No rain in sight...

    https://www.ksbw.com/article/fire-pr...-cruz/24618399

  11. #111
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    Sounds like the fire is contained at 8 acres. It is on the river side of Hwy 9. It is pretty smoky here, two miles south of the fire.

    I hear that Hwy 9 will be closed all day, including to pedestrians and cyclists. It may be closed for a couple more days as they make sure the fire is out.

    I saw campfire smoke and a green tent right off of Emma McCrary trail on Friday. I think this fire illustrates why it is good to have regular traffic through the woods. I suspect this fire was started by another homeless camper. Remember when the rangers were asking for our help with all of the arson fires a couple of years ago?

  12. #112
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    New wildland fire at UCSC Crown College.

  13. #113
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    ^^ Crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    Remember when the rangers were asking for our help with all of the arson fires a couple of years ago?
    The irony is pretty strong. Regardless, we REALLY need some rain.
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  14. #114
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    I heard this is not fog. It's smoke from the fires. Camera on the right

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  15. #115
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    Tickets hw9 UCSC?-screen-shot-2018-11-04-11.04.58-am.png

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  16. #116
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    Thick smoke in the entire San Lorenzo Valley. Haven't seen it this bad in awhile; definitely wouldn't want to be riding in it.

  17. #117
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    Demo must have been a zoo today. Just got back from Summit Store, it was packed with MTBs.

  18. #118
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    Tickets hw9 UCSC?

    Quote Originally Posted by 121GW View Post
    Demo must have been a zoo today. Just got back from Summit Store, it was packed with MTBs.
    I climbed up Demo, but dropped the front side. A few big groups on the way up but not any more crowded than normal.


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  19. #119
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    The smoke is not as bad now. There have been lots of helicopters flying around. Looks like they are doing a lot of good.

    I talked to a buddy of mine today. He told me he got a ticket this week. Ranger said they have more resources and are going to start enforcing more. Erosion and damage to redwood roots were cited as a couple of reasons. I wonder how much damage a 20-acre wildfire does compared to outlaw bikers.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    The smoke is not as bad now. There have been lots of helicopters flying around. Looks like they are doing a lot of good.

    I talked to a buddy of mine today. He told me he got a ticket this week. Ranger said they have more resources and are going to start enforcing more. Erosion and damage to redwood roots were cited as a couple of reasons. I wonder how much damage a 20-acre wildfire does compared to outlaw bikers.

    Easy way to pretend they are doing something and justify taxes, pensions, funding.

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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    The smoke is not as bad now. There have been lots of helicopters flying around. Looks like they are doing a lot of good.

    I talked to a buddy of mine today. He told me he got a ticket this week. Ranger said they have more resources and are going to start enforcing more. Erosion and damage to redwood roots were cited as a couple of reasons. I wonder how much damage a 20-acre wildfire does compared to outlaw bikers.
    A few points, fires are natural component of a forest ecosystem. Logging roads and built DH bike trails are not. If bikers would constrain themselves to following (unaltered) games trails this wouldn't be as much of a problem.

    State Parks sees very little of the bail money; maybe 10 cents on the dollar. (This can be looked up; I'm remembering $25 a pop)

    This is more about CEQA compliance than anything else. I'm sure parks is mostly worried about a potential lawsuit brought by insert environmental group here for failing in its duties in the area of natural resource protection.

    I'd like to know where SC District found "more resources"; finances seem pretty meager elsewhere.

    For some reason that I don't understand peeps in my park district are concerned about Prop 6 passing? (Has road money been being shifted to state parks under the table?)
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  22. #122
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    Jeezus, there'd be a lot more Rhinos and Elephants in Africa if they poached as poorly over there as TOO many of us do around here. LOL, maybe if State Parks also shot to kill, we'd, collectively, do a bit better at some of things that keep these crackdowns from occurring. Some of you guys are pretty blatant and inconsiderate to the land and populace in this neck of the woods.
    Last edited by jms; 11-05-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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  23. #123
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    Your Strava data, instagram posts, drinking in the parking lot and getting med-evac'd out are to blame - nice work guys. Not sure what everyone expected? Turn off your Strava, be responsible, and respect the laws and unwritten rules.

  24. #124
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    On a tiny nice spot near my house - we will eventually lose it as well. Neighbor down the hill on a lookout complaining after too many medevacs out of her driveway.

    Thank you, idiot irresponsible teenagers adding all the nice but illegal trails on the stupid trailforks and other apps.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    On a tiny nice spot near my house - we will eventually lose it as well. Neighbor down the hill on a lookout complaining after too many medevacs out of her driveway.

    Thank you, idiot irresponsible teenagers adding all the nice but illegal trails on the stupid trailforks and other apps.
    It is not limited to teenagers. Grown adults use Strava, build trails, used trailforks and other geospatial software to log and share riding locations. Once you show someone a trail, you've jeopardized the future of that trail. I told three friends that the only way we ride is if their is no data logging and the post never show up in Stava. Well, I discovered my friends are part of the problem. Lesson learned and I now ride with a tiny crew of friends which is sad. Pretty bummed on people's decisions in this regard.

  26. #126
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    This month: SO much drama.

    Next month: Things are back to normal.

    Probably.

    Still, I always try to appreciate those types of trails because they could all be taken away tomorrow, either by fire or by the Man.
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicolai22 View Post
    Your Strava data, instagram posts, drinking in the parking lot and getting med-evac'd out are to blame - nice work guys. Not sure what everyone expected? Turn off your Strava, be responsible, and respect the laws and unwritten rules.
    . . . says the guy posting about it in a public forum. This whole thread should just be deleted.


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  28. #128
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    If State Park rangers were truly trying to educate and change behavior, why didn't they utilize their partnership/contacts with MBOSC to get the word out? Sounds like they were left out in the dark.

    My money is on this blowing over in a week or two just like other years.

  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ...
    Still, I always try to appreciate those types of trails because they could all be taken away tomorrow, either by fire or by the Man.

    As I've seen afterwards on Lime Ridge, 2 Stonyford fires, Cow Mtn, etc, dirt & rocks don't burn. Fire only takes out vegetation & wooden features. Maybe drop a tree or two across a trail. The local trail gnomes will fix all that in a week.

    The Man is underfunded & understaffed. Only threat of enforcement is affordable long term ... except Mid-Pen & Marin? ;-)

    OR, try to view tickets as a FUN tax. And think about how much fun you had since the last one. Its a BARGAIN, right?

    Don't worry, ride happy! :-)

    Catfish ...

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUZe View Post
    If State Park rangers were truly trying to educate and change behavior, why didn't they utilize their partnership/contacts with MBOSC to get the word out? .
    Why give up the revenue by warning people?

    I love living and riding in the Bay Area. The trails in the UCSC/Wilder Area are a personal favorite. But I always feel like we're just a complaint or an accident or two away form losing the fun stuff permanently.

  31. #131
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    I'm just happy the current crackdown isn't happening during hero conditions. These trails need a serious break, right now. Hopefully the enforcement goes on for a month or two in order to discourage a % of he current users for a while.

    I have to agree with dirtvert...Every time their is a crack down, everyone screams Armageddon and starts dragging out the pitchforks and torches to decide who is to blame. Like everything else, things come in Cycles. Pun intended
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  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by motocatfish View Post
    As I've seen afterwards on Lime Ridge, 2 Stonyford fires, Cow Mtn, etc, dirt & rocks don't burn. Fire only takes out vegetation & wooden features. Maybe drop a tree or two across a trail. The local trail gnomes will fix all that in a week.

    Don't worry, ride happy! :-)

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    If a big fire got out of control in SC, it could be very devastating. So many homes, and a big part of the college campus, would have no chance since they are consumed by the redwood growth.

  33. #133
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    Good legal trails are probably the best way for communities to end this so called envasion of illegal mtb trails. I'm just not sure most of California has a political climate that will allow that solution....

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    I second the notion that this will all blow over in a few weeks or so as it has in the past. Until then, Iím riding Harvey West, Demo, and maybe the SJ bike park.

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by motocatfish View Post

    OR, try to view tickets as a FUN tax. And think about how much fun you had since the last one. Its a BARGAIN, right?

    Don't worry, ride happy! :-)

    Catfish ...
    Any idea how much this FUN tax would be? Thank you.

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitma View Post
    Any idea how much this FUN tax would be? Thank you.
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  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitma View Post
    Any idea how much this FUN tax would be? Thank you.
    I can't speak to the tickets being handed out around UCSC, but some years back, I got a ticket for $375 for riding down the summit of Mission Peak.

    I don't get too upset about these tickets, as long as they don't go on my driving record. Got a trail speeding ticket at Fremont Older for going 30mph on a straight down hill fire road along the top ridge and that shit went on my driving record. To add insult to injury, it was close to sunset and the delay of getting my citation left me back at my parked car on Stevens Canyon Road 10 minutes after sunset, so I had a parking ticket, too. Double Jeopardy...
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    Thank you for the price information. Quite some money but if it does not happen too often probably cheaper than a gym, tennis or golf membership...which I all do not have.

  39. #139
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    Seeing that all SC Parks and Open Spaces will be closed due to fire danger until further notice. 5 arrests in last 4 weeks due to the multiple suspicious fires in the area... Probably has something to do with recent enforcement.

    Also, saw a few riders getting ticketed this past Sunday (11/11)on hwy9.

  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by kragu View Post
    Seeing that all SC Parks and Open Spaces will be closed due to fire danger until further notice. 5 arrests in last 4 weeks due to the multiple suspicious fires in the area... Probably has something to do with recent enforcement.

    Also, saw a few riders getting ticketed this past Sunday (11/11)on hwy9.
    My guess is that the tickets are a side effect of the need for ranger presence as they try to get rid of campers in the forest. As we have seen lately, the campers are causing a huge problem with fires.

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    My guess is that the tickets are a side effect of the need for ranger presence as they try to get rid of campers in the forest. As we have seen lately, the campers are causing a huge problem with fires.
    Exactly. When they are out there looking for arsonists and needles, they have to warn/ticket mountain bikers encountered. If they ignore them, it can become unenforceable.
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  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Exactly. When they are out there looking for arsonists and needles, they have to warn/ticket mountain bikers encountered. If they ignore them, it can become unenforceable.
    Nah, the order of priorities for LEO in NorCal has been out of whack for a long time.

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMachinist View Post
    My guess is that the tickets are a side effect of the need for ranger presence as they try to get rid of campers in the forest. As we have seen lately, the campers are causing a huge problem with fires.
    Are you sure they arenít out there trying to get rid of mountain bikers on unsanctioned trails, and as a side effect the homeless feel like they can now take the forest back with less bikers around.

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Are you sure they arenít out there trying to get rid of mountain bikers on unsanctioned trails, and as a side effect the homeless feel like they can now take the forest back with less bikers around.
    I'm going to try not to think that. I don't need any more reason for resentment.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach0215 View Post
    Good legal trails are probably the best way for communities to end this so called envasion of illegal mtb trails. I'm just not sure most of California has a political climate that will allow that solution....
    Actually, the political climate towards MTB is fine in most of California. It is mostly the greater Bay Area, and to a lesser degree some areas around Sacramento, where we have this problem. Its severity declines as you travel away from the inner Bay Area counties.

  46. #146
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    I have it on good authority that ticketing happened today at highway 9 trails. Sunday afternoon, Dec 9. Kind of a big deal since this is a weekend and a much stronger statement than the weekday crackdowns during the homeless fire problems.Tickets hw9 UCSC?-screen-shot-2018-12-09-5.59.02-pm.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I have it on good authority that ticketing happened today at highway 9 trails. Sunday afternoon, Dec 9. Kind of a big deal since this is a weekend and a much stronger statement than the weekday crackdowns during the homeless fire problems.
    This is unfortunate and disheartening news. I get that State Parks rangers are just doing their job, but we as the majority trail user group somehow need to let our voice be heard. How do we legitimize riding bikes in nature?


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    Isn't that photo at the bottom of hw9? Either way, yes they were there and some people were trying to get away on one of the exits and I really don't suggest this. There's a lot of alternatives, stay away...

    Must have seen 3-4 groups of 10+ riders. If your planning some big group ride pick another spot, one group had 20+ riders, come on.

  49. #149
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    Was out there today. Hwy9 parking lot packed at 11am. Dropped into hwy 9 and never saw Rangers. I did see one at top of Emma and Ricon junction on the first climb up.

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    I saw a ranger cruise through the parking lot on 9 around 2 pm. I was just finishing up my ride as he drove by. Didn't see him stop for anyone.
    Lots of groups out there today as was stated.
    Conditions we very good. A little wetter on some trails then I thought it would be. More on the west side though.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by m3the01 View Post
    Isn't that photo at the bottom of hw9? Either way, yes they were there and some people were trying to get away on one of the exits and I really don't suggest this. There's a lot of alternatives, stay away...

    Must have seen 3-4 groups of 10+ riders. If your planning some big group ride pick another spot, one group had 20+ riders, come on.
    It looks like the small dirt lot at the bottom of the waterfall. Late afternoon i believe. Really looks like they were around and not pleased.
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    was this the one in the black pick up truck that said "law enforcement"? someone said that guy was a game warden, and they were looking for folks that had been fishing the river below, but who knows
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It looks like the small dirt lot at the bottom of the waterfall. Late afternoon i believe. Really looks like they were around and not pleased.
    Most of the time when seeing them there, they drop down to Garden of Eden due to the partiers and fishing stuff, as mentioned.

  54. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by BraapTastic View Post
    Most of the time when seeing them there, they drop down to Garden of Eden due to the partiers and fishing stuff, as mentioned.
    This is ground zero of bike ticketing though. It is such a dangerous exit when a few careless riders ride down or cross the highway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    This is ground zero of bike ticketing though. It is such a dangerous exit when a few careless riders ride down or cross the highway.
    Truly. I think they sit there to look for drunken river-goers about to drive away - and also ticket anybody dropping onto their lap. Super easy to be careful there. Come on people!

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    rode UC from noon until 4pm Sunday. zero rangers anywhere. rode today, no rangers. I did see a game wardon walk down to look for people fishing, but that was it.

    Never heard mention of ticketing from anyone else, and there were TONS of people out. I would suspect they were more about drunken assholes on the river side, since that's were the main fire burnt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    This is ground zero of bike ticketing though. It is such a dangerous exit when a few careless riders ride down or cross the highway.
    why would anyone ever drop out there anyways? just climb 15 turns from the bottom of Magic/sweetness!?

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    A mate of mine took a first timer to UC on Sunday and she decided to bail after a few laps so he pointed her down the poop chute/waterfall and as she exited the rangers were waiting and she scored a ticket....

    What I really don't understand is the aim of the rangers in this situation, do they seriously think we will stop riding there? With so few options for sanctioned trails and literally nothing sanctioned that is as technical as the trails in there, its just satisfying a need for these kinds of trails and no amount of enforcement will stop it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macca208 View Post
    A mate of mine took a first timer to UC on Sunday and she decided to bail after a few laps so he pointed her down the poop chute/waterfall and as she exited the rangers were waiting and she scored a ticket....

    What I really don't understand is the aim of the rangers in this situation, do they seriously think we will stop riding there? With so few options for sanctioned trails and literally nothing sanctioned that is as technical as the trails in there, its just satisfying a need for these kinds of trails and no amount of enforcement will stop it.
    I firmly believe that ticketing for MTB right now is a byproduct, but that the day will come that UC does get legit shut down. That won't be the saddest day, because it's my belief that it will only happen if MBOSC is successful in getting a particular tract of land opened up for MTB development. I will remain guardedly hopeful....

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    Once again - what is the point of talking about this on here?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samo831 View Post
    Once again - what is the point of talking about this on here?


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    well let's see: this is a MTB forum, it involves Mountain Biking, we are discussing something that matters to people that MTB in the area affected......is that enough just cause for you to let others have a conversation? jesus.....

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    Tickets hw9 UCSC?

    Quote Originally Posted by conoat View Post
    I firmly believe that ticketing for MTB right now is a byproduct, but that the day will come that UC does get legit shut down. That won't be the saddest day, because it's my belief that it will only happen if MBOSC is successful in getting a particular tract of land opened up for MTB development. I will remain guardedly hopeful....
    For some people it will be the saddest day. This is my back yard. People chattering about the trails and enforcement and bringing huge groups to ride here is disrespectful to those that live here and maintain these trails. No good can come from these threads. They just exacerbate the problem by making it look worse than it is to those that have the power shut it down.


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    Last edited by Samo831; 12-11-2018 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Samo831 View Post
    For some people it will be the saddest day. This is my back yard. People chattering about the trails and enforcement and bringing huge groups to ride here is disrespectful to those that live here and maintain these trails. No good cam come from these threads. They just exacerbate the problem by making it look worse than it is to those that have the power shut it down.


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    that's some real gatekeeping if I have ever seen it. I ride UC 200 ****ing days a year. I'm not "from here". that doesn't mean I have less right to it than you.

    you are looking at the issue from a protection/defensive standpoint, and I will say from my experience in fighting for access, you're doing it wrong. If you care as much as you seem to, you should be fighting the powers that be at all fronts, instead of carping at people that ride trails on an online forum. When is the last time you attended an MBOSC meeting? a city council meeting with trail access on the agenda? I don't think you havent, but if you haven't, then you have no leg to stand on.

    lastly, I don't mean this to be contentious. I sensed that from you, but don't know if that's what you meant. I just took issue with your tone and NIMBY attitude whether intended or not.

    I'm the first person to help when the shit hits the fan at UC. I hope it never happens, and I hope the entire area one day gets sanctioned. I truly do. I just am pragmatic in the fact that there's a real good chance that it won't. MBOSC is looking way ahead and they are likely going to win long term because of it.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by conoat View Post
    ...and I hope the entire area one day gets sanctioned. I truly do.
    I donít. Legal trails in California will never resemble the type of trails I enjoy riding. I will have to either continue to ride unsanctioned trails or move up to BC.

    But I agree with the rest of your points.

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    Tickets hw9 UCSC?

    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    I donít. Legal trails in California will never resemble the type of trails I enjoy riding. I will have to either continue to ride unsanctioned trails or move up to BC.

    But I agree with the rest of your points.
    Why would you move to BC to ride their legal badass trails? The goal IMHO is to have legal badass trails right here in California. I realize at the moment itís a pipe dream and that Iíll be on an e-trike by the time our bureaucratic legal system can catch up with reality here, but someday you might chuckle while riding some super gnarly legal badass trails when you look back & remember this thread as you pass me on my e-trike, lol!


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    Quote Originally Posted by turfnsurf View Post
    Why would you move to BC to ride their legal badass trails? The goal IMHO is to have legal badass trails right here in California. I realize at the moment itís a pipe dream and that Iíll be on an e-trike by the time our bureaucratic legal system can catch up with reality here, but someday you might chuckle while riding some super gnarly legal badass trails when you look back & remember this thread as you pass me on my e-trike, lol!


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    In my opinion, I think in the extended future we will be lucky to have any legal mountain bike trails in the Bay Area. Let alone legal gnarly badass ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    In my opinion, I think in the extended future we will be lucky to have any legal mountain bike trails in the Bay Area. Let alone legal gnarly badass ones.
    Demographically speaking, the haters are pretty old, aren't they? Isn't time (and cardiac disease) on our side?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoscoP View Post
    Demographically speaking, the haters are pretty old, aren't they? Isn't time (and cardiac disease) on our side?
    No. Lots of young haters too that like to complain but are too delicate to ever pick up a shovel...

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    Sooo, will be riding tomorrow - dropping from the top to Rincon Connector Trail and then to the parking lot is OK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by noblige View Post
    Sooo, will be riding tomorrow - dropping from the top to Rincon Connector Trail and then to the parking lot is OK?

    Maybe Samo831 is right at least when it comes to questions like this. Sounds like the tickets this weekend and back when the fires were going on were a case of rangers in the right place at the right time. Keep your eyes open and the groups small.
    I'm the problem....

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoscoP View Post
    Demographically speaking, the haters are pretty old, aren't they? Isn't time (and cardiac disease) on our side?
    Careful! Iím getting old, but I can ride that stuff and work a shovel


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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbrdan View Post
    Maybe Samo831 is right at least when it comes to questions like this. Sounds like the tickets this weekend and back when the fires were going on were a case of rangers in the right place at the right time. Keep your eyes open and the groups small.
    Not sure which post you are referring to. I ride alone and was just looking for a friendly advise (I guess that's what this forum is for). Thanks!

  73. #173
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    The friendly advice is if you are worried about getting a ticket ride Uconn back down to your car and next time go to Demo.
    I'm the problem....

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    Quote Originally Posted by noblige View Post
    Not sure which post you are referring to. I ride alone and was just looking for a friendly advise (I guess that's what this forum is for). Thanks!
    I would say park at Gold Club Drive and do not get within 1/4 mile of highway 9 on trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by conoat View Post
    that's some real gatekeeping if I have ever seen it. I ride UC 200 ****ing days a year. I'm not "from here". that doesn't mean I have less right to it than you.
    See, here's the thing: when it comes to trails in general, and these un-trails in particular, none of us really have a right to them. Especially if you step out of your own framework - that of someone enjoying the privilege of recreational access to ride mountain bikes - and look at this whole situation from the eyes of someone other than yourself. Sure, there are NIMBY haters, and old people, and environmentalists, and there are also the UC regents who are in theoretical control of the land at the top of where you are riding, and the State Parks people whose job it is to enforce the terms of use where you access the bottom, and it probably seems TO YOU like all of them are wrong. But they all have their reasons for the way they think.

    Here's what we have: a non-sanctioned, user built network of trails in an area that does not, by rule, allow bike access. Technically, these trails DO NOT EVEN EXIST. That is why so many locals get bummed out when people even talk about them on here. These trails that DO NOT EXIST have seen an increase in users over the past decade that is truly staggering. In large part, the increase is due to ease of access afforded by forums such as this, and apps such as Strava. But it's also because there is a growing population of mountain bikers with scant opportunity elsewhere in the Bay Area. So word gets out, and they come here.

    Meanwhile, there is also an underpaid, understaffed State Parks law enforcement unit that has had to deal with a massive homeless problem, a very long and scary dry summer, some gnarly fires as a result of the previous two factors, and a local population of easily startled mossbacks who drive highway 9 every day and are freaked out when mountain bikers appear alongside their cars. Who do they complain to about that? So, every once in a while, the rangers crack down. It is not an imposition on your rights - in this case, you don't have any rights to the access you are enjoying. You have the privilege of accessing a large network of illegally built singletrack, and sometimes it seems people need to be reminded that what they are doing should maybe be done with a little bit more discretion.
    hold my beer...

  76. #176
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    brilliant assessment and perspective. Thanks Mike
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbrdan View Post
    The friendly advice is if you are worried about getting a ticket ride Uconn back down to your car and next time go to Demo.
    Thatís passive aggressive advise. If wanted to ride Demo I wouldíve. Iím all for pay-to-ride (and I do through MBOSC), but none of the fines help anyone here. Oh, and I doubt any of people who ride groups of 30 are on these forums.
    Anyway, 9 looks clear as of now and weather is perfect!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtotheF View Post
    m
    In large part, the increase is due to ease of access afforded by forums such as this, and apps such as Strava. But it's also because there is a growing population of mountain bikers with scant opportunity elsewhere in the Bay Area. So word gets out, and they come here.
    Also thanks to the work of mbosc keeping UConn/Emma in such great shape. If those trails didnít exist, it would be a different story. Maybe.

    When was UConn built? And what was life like as a mountain biker in SC before this trail. Ever since Iíve been riding there this trail has been there.

  79. #179
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    Anyone know how much the actual fine is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Also thanks to the work of mbosc keeping UConn/Emma in such great shape. If those trails didnít exist, it would be a different story. Maybe.

    When was UConn built? And what was life like as a mountain biker in SC before this trail. Ever since Iíve been riding there this trail has been there.
    Fair point. And yes, MBOSC is doing an awesome job given the situation they face. I should've amended my post to say "with the exception of Emma and U-Conn, technically, all THESE other TRAILS DO NOT EXIST".

    I moved to SC in 1992, U-Conn was there back then. As was Lockemup. Dead Camper was only just starting to be ridden around then, and a couple years later, maybe 1994, the other main descent in that area - OutBack - got logged out of existence. There were the trails within UC between Chinquapin and Empire, and they were totally known as illegal poaches. Two connectors ran up through Campus from the bike path, Parcourse or Star Wars, and another one in the next drainage over toward the playing fields (blanking the name now). The trail behind the tanks didn't exist then, neither did any of the other drops to 9, Grey Whale still hadn't been added to Wilder, a couple well known trails above Smith Grade were still several years from existing, and if I recall, Sawpit was probably brand new in Demo about then. Mailboxes was spoken in whispers. There was a fun trail that used to run on the other side of the river out after crossing the rail bridge and climbing the paved path, ran back to the cemetery on Ocean Street extension, was called White Lady after a reputed ghost. That got built over sometime in the late 90s. And Branciforte was about the same as it ever was, just the ruts were a little smaller...

    This has been going on for a very long time, but the ramp up in building is relatively recent with regard to the people who have lived in SC for a long time (and 1992 doesn't begin to qualify me for that status). The influx of large numbers of riders has been after that.

    Funny you should wonder what it was like here before U-Conn. I moved down to SC from San Francisco, and thought I had arrived at The Promised Land. Compared to what was going on in Marin County, It was all I could want at the time: nicer weather, easily accessed singletrack mountain biking, being on awesome trails straight out the back door, as well as a super lively road scene, pretty damn good stuff.
    hold my beer...

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Anyone know how much the actual fine is?
    Sounds like noblige is about to find out.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtotheF View Post
    Fair point. And yes, MBOSC is doing an awesome job given the situation they face. I should've amended my post to say "with the exception of Emma and U-Conn, technically, all THESE other TRAILS DO NOT EXIST".

    I moved to SC in 1992, U-Conn was there back then. As was Lockemup. Dead Camper was only just starting to be ridden around then, and a couple years later, maybe 1994, the other main descent in that area - OutBack - got logged out of existence. There were the trails within UC between Chinquapin and Empire, and they were totally known as illegal poaches. Two connectors ran up through Campus from the bike path, Parcourse or Star Wars, and another one in the next drainage over toward the playing fields (blanking the name now). The trail behind the tanks didn't exist then, neither did any of the other drops to 9, Grey Whale still hadn't been added to Wilder, a couple well known trails above Smith Grade were still several years from existing, and if I recall, Sawpit was probably brand new in Demo about then. Mailboxes was spoken in whispers. There was a fun trail that used to run on the other side of the river out after crossing the rail bridge and climbing the paved path, ran back to the cemetery on Ocean Street extension, was called White Lady after a reputed ghost. That got built over sometime in the late 90s. And Branciforte was about the same as it ever was, just the ruts were a little smaller...

    This has been going on for a very long time, but the ramp up in building is relatively recent with regard to the people who have lived in SC for a long time (and 1992 doesn't begin to qualify me for that status). The influx of large numbers of riders has been after that.

    Funny you should wonder what it was like here before U-Conn. I moved down to SC from San Francisco, and thought I had arrived at The Promised Land. Compared to what was going on in Marin County, It was all I could want at the time: nicer weather, easily accessed singletrack mountain biking, being on awesome trails straight out the back door, as well as a super lively road scene, pretty damn good stuff.
    Thanks for the history lesson.

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtotheF View Post
    See, here's the thing: when it comes to trails in general, and these un-trails in particular, none of us really have a right to them. Especially if you step out of your own framework - that of someone enjoying the privilege of recreational access to ride mountain bikes - and look at this whole situation from the eyes of someone other than yourself. Sure, there are NIMBY haters, and old people, and environmentalists, and there are also the UC regents who are in theoretical control of the land at the top of where you are riding, and the State Parks people whose job it is to enforce the terms of use where you access the bottom, and it probably seems TO YOU like all of them are wrong. But they all have their reasons for the way they think.

    Here's what we have: a non-sanctioned, user built network of trails in an area that does not, by rule, allow bike access. Technically, these trails DO NOT EVEN EXIST. That is why so many locals get bummed out when people even talk about them on here. These trails that DO NOT EXIST have seen an increase in users over the past decade that is truly staggering. In large part, the increase is due to ease of access afforded by forums such as this, and apps such as Strava. But it's also because there is a growing population of mountain bikers with scant opportunity elsewhere in the Bay Area. So word gets out, and they come here.

    Meanwhile, there is also an underpaid, understaffed State Parks law enforcement unit that has had to deal with a massive homeless problem, a very long and scary dry summer, some gnarly fires as a result of the previous two factors, and a local population of easily startled mossbacks who drive highway 9 every day and are freaked out when mountain bikers appear alongside their cars. Who do they complain to about that? So, every once in a while, the rangers crack down. It is not an imposition on your rights - in this case, you don't have any rights to the access you are enjoying. You have the privilege of accessing a large network of illegally built singletrack, and sometimes it seems people need to be reminded that what they are doing should maybe be done with a little bit more discretion.
    I hear almost all of that. I take exception with the tone I am hearing, which is, "shut up and enjoy what the powers that be give you". Those people work for us. They have no power that we don't give them. The best path forward is the civil disobedience route, IMO. If there are so many of us brazenly flouting their "laws" that they cannot possibly enforce them any longer, they will be forced to relent and open the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Also thanks to the work of mbosc keeping UConn/Emma in such great shape. If those trails didnít exist, it would be a different story. Maybe.

    When was UConn built? And what was life like as a mountain biker in SC before this trail. Ever since Iíve been riding there this trail has been there.

    UConn/Pogonip has been there as long as I can remember RBoardman.
    18-Plus years give or take...
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    Quote Originally Posted by conoat View Post
    I hear almost all of that. I take exception with the tone I am hearing, which is, "shut up and enjoy what the powers that be give you". Those people work for us. They have no power that we don't give them. The best path forward is the civil disobedience route, IMO. If there are so many of us brazenly flouting their "laws" that they cannot possibly enforce them any longer, they will be forced to relent and open the area.
    No, I am not saying "shut up and enjoy what the powers that be give you". I wasn't trying to make any case for or against access. Personally, I think it's a bummer of a situation all the way around, for people on both sides of this subject. However, I also don't really think we have a "right" to complain too much about getting tickets for riding there. Especially since they so rarely enforce them to begin with.

    If you want to practice civil disobedience, that's fine. Just don't expect it to yield the the result you stated - that they will relent and open the area. My only preachy tone comes here: be mindful, be civil, and be prepared to accept the consequences of standing up to the man.
    hold my beer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Anyone know how much the actual fine is?
    Does this depend on the county? It was around $250 out of pocket (riding off trail / closed trail) in Santa Clara County a year ago.

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by noblige View Post
    Does this depend on the county? It was around $250 out of pocket (riding off trail / closed trail) in Santa Clara County a year ago.
    Around 2010 as a 6 person group we were "caught" crossing some property and a gate on a road in an area in proximity to this thread and it was the threat of possessing the bikes and a fine of $300 or so. I can't speak to that as being valid on paper at the time or now but it certainly came from someone who was in the position to threaten us with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash View Post
    Around 2010 as a 6 person group we were "caught" crossing some property and a gate on a road in an area in proximity to this thread and it was the threat of possessing the bikes and a fine of $300 or so. I can't speak to that as being valid on paper at the time or now but it certainly came from someone who was in the position to threaten us with that.
    I get the fine, but what is the ground for confiscating the bikes?

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtotheF View Post
    There was a fun trail that used to run on the other side of the river out after crossing the rail bridge and climbing the paved path, ran back to the cemetery on Ocean Street extension, was called White Lady after a reputed ghost. That got built over sometime in the late 90s.
    I remember that trail. we used to cross Pasatiempo then hit White Lady from the top side from Graham Hill Rd. I broke off 2 rear derailleurs in one month after they started clearing that out for those homes that are on it now. That's when I stopped riding through there.
    Heck, I used to ride Demo back when it was just narrow game like trails probably around the late 80's early 90's but there were hardly any MTB'ers around back then. A lot has changed in a couple decades......

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by noblige View Post
    I get the fine, but what is the ground for confiscating the bikes?
    No idea - it did not sit well with me. But at the time Strava was only a year old I believe and had not yet infiltrated the area. We still all rode with the stigma that you could and probably would get caught at some time and you were pretty mum about said trails - same stigma attached with riding Nisene at any time of the day (hiding in the bushes at night).

    I also remember around that time once coming out of an area to cross another road and someone decided to spook everyone behind them saying "Ranger"

  91. #191
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    $280.00
    Just got the letter in the mail
    CCR4326(A) violation of posted orders/special permits prohibited

    This is different than if you get written up for a misdemeanor, which goes on your record and is more expensive (so said the ranger who wrote it up)
    Been riding here for 15 years and this is 1st ticket,.....can't complain too much

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr View Post
    $280.00
    Just got the letter in the mail
    CCR4326(A) violation of posted orders/special permits prohibited

    This is different than if you get written up for a misdemeanor, which goes on your record and is more expensive (so said the ranger who wrote it up)
    Been riding here for 15 years and this is 1st ticket,.....can't complain too much
    Thank you, thank you! We finally know the fine for certain.

    Last weekend, a ranger at highway 9 that a second offense is a fine AND a misdemeanor.

    A misdemeanor stays on your record 10 years??? And there will be great difficulty crossing the border to Canada and riding there if you have this on your record.
    Last edited by fc; 12-11-2018 at 10:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Thank you, thank you! We finally know the fine for certain.

    Last weekend, a ranger at highway 9 that a second offense is a fine AND a misdemeanor.

    A misdemeanor stays on your record 10 years. And there will be great difficulty crossing the border to Canada and riding there if you have this on your record.
    I believe a misdemeanor stays on your record for life, or until it is expunged? I've never heard of anyone having an issue with international travel due to a misdemeanor?

    This is good info.....
    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 12-11-2018 at 08:06 PM.

  94. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr View Post
    $280.00
    Just got the letter in the mail
    CCR4326(A) violation of posted orders/special permits prohibited

    This is different than if you get written up for a misdemeanor, which goes on your record and is more expensive (so said the ranger who wrote it up)
    Been riding here for 15 years and this is 1st ticket,.....can't complain too much
    Season pass!

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    Building Emma. From a random Youtube search. I believe that is Drew Perkins on the Morrison?


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    Quote Originally Posted by MtotheF View Post
    Mailboxes was spoken in whispers.
    I accidentally found Red Mailbox (for those that don't know its original name, obviously named after the uniquely-colored postal receptacle that marked the secret entrance) back around 92-93. I was riding in Wilder ranch and was exploring a new faint trail past the lime kilns. I will never forget this one long steep hill with a one-foot-wide singletrack that went straight down a steep drop. It is now the infamous rock garden at the bottom.

    I wish I had a picture of it. Nobody would believe it was the same trail.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Building Emma. From a random Youtube search. I believe that is Drew Perkins on the Morrison?

    Yes that's Drew.

    The Morrison trail machine was being loaned to the city by Bud McCrary. (Logger par excellence; family owns Big Creek Lumber Co)

    The trail is named for Bud's late wife, Emma McCrary. (Emma was an incredible horsewoman and trail builder in her own right)

    More photos like below here

    Tickets hw9 UCSC?-100_0581.jpg

    Bud, Meta (City of Santa Cruz Parks) and Drew.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash View Post
    Season pass!
    With a slight difference - when they see that you already paid for the pass, the second one is a fine and a misdemeanor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    With a slight difference - when they see that you already paid for the pass, the second one is a fine and a misdemeanor.
    Yep. If you get one ticket not a huge deal. But after that you need to be very careful, or just ride elsewhere for the near future.

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    Posts
    1,061
    What is the "effective" time period for a first citation? Is it like w/ a moving vehicle citation, where after 18 months or something it's off your record? I'm ok paying a fun tax, but seems like a misdemeanor would have add'l legal implications.
    94 Specialized Rockhopper

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