Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 146 of 146
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    I rode Tamarancho on this beautiful day and rode the upper part of the Flow Trail for the fist time after putting a few days work on it - I had to myself for many laps and I realized a few things:

    1. This trail is f****ing amazing! Thanks Jim, Davey, Sandor, et. al. for all of your hard work - it is a very special work of art!

    2. As awesome as it is and as much fun as I had riding it (evidenced by the perma-grin ), I have no idea how to ride this trail - it is a totally different animal - how do I learn how to ride this thing? Just practice?, or do I need some instruction!?

    3. I should bring my pads next time - it is too tempting to go extremely fast.

    Thanks again for all the hard work! I can't wait until the whole thing is open. I'll be out there this weekend

  2. #2
    Trail Gnome
    Reputation: Dark Meat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,984
    I hear you man. I felt like a goon when I rode it; not my style but, still very fun.

  3. #3
    ~~~
    Reputation: tburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,036
    It will be a new experience for many riders because we've never had anything like that here in the Bay Area.

  4. #4
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Practice, practice, practice.

    Helpful tips:

    Put your seat down.

    Increase rear tire pressure.

    Don't try and go fast. In other words don't force it. I know it sounds corny but "just go with the flow." Over time you will get faster and faster. Trust me. The most important part of the experience is to have fun. Once the trail is open from top to bottom it will only take 10 minutes to ride back up and do it again. If you don't get hurt you will continue to get better.

    Dylan Renn lives locally and designed a few of our cooler features on the trail, like the S turn. He also teaches bike skills. He is an excellent teacher and has been working with me to get over my mental fear of gap jumps and drops. You should give him a shout:

    Contact | RENNCRAFT

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: otis24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,360
    I live in the South Bay and have never really explored any of the North Bay places to ride. I either end up at Demo or Skeggs. I've been thinking of putting together a tour of the North Bay some weekend. I'll definitely have to hit up Tamarancho.
    I like to ride bikes.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by supermachete View Post
    Stiffen up that suspension a little bit, & let'er rip!
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Increase rear tire pressure.
    Interesting - I was doing the exact opposite of these 2 pieces of advice in an attempt to make my bike as squishy and plush as I could thinking I would increase traction and absorb the landings (especially the not-so-smooth ones). I will try this approach next time.

    Question about increasing rear tire pressure though:

    I can see this helping with the pumping and holding speed / momentum aspect, but won't this also decrease traction when you're really digging into those berms and also increase skidding / drifting (which I'm assuming we don't want)?

    Thanks!

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hairylegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    536
    I don't know anything about the trail, but I can't imagine why you'd want to stiffen up the suspension and inflate the tires. I'd leave the suspension where I always have it (25-30% sag) and keep the tires as low as I could get away with before damaging the rims or burping.

    What's the terrain like that makes you guys recommend these two actions?

  8. #8
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Interesting - I was doing the exact opposite of these 2 pieces of advice in an attempt to make my bike as squishy and plush as I could thinking I would increase traction and absorb the landings (especially the not-so-smooth ones). I will try this approach next time.

    Question about increasing rear tire pressure though:

    I can see this helping with the pumping and holding speed / momentum aspect, but won't this also decrease traction when you're really digging into those berms and also increase skidding / drifting (which I'm assuming we don't want)?

    Thanks!
    Normally I run pretty low pressure. I've got a tubeless set up and a hard tail. So it serves at a little bit of suspension. Normally corners on the mountain bike can't be taken at great speed. Switchbacks are mostly super super tight and having a lower pressure helps soak up braking bumps, roots and rocks.

    Fire roads are mostly flat and countersteering along with good traction seems to be the safest option.

    The first few times down the flow trail were on my dirt jumper. We were testing out the S turn and the bike worked great through the tall berms at speed. Even with semi slick dirt jumping tires. I run the dirt jumper tires at a very high pressure so much so that it made the ride back to town pretty uncomfortable.

    I tried the flow trail with my 29er and the lower pressure. It was a disaster! The rear tire has so much more force on it than normal that it started to "roll off" the rim. The sidewall was collapsing. I added about 10-15 psi and presto. The 29er performed nearly as well as the dirt jumper.

    A low seat and shorter stem seems to help nearly as much.

    Also I wanted to thank you for starting a positive thread about the trail. Way better than I ever did You rock bro!

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,071
    i took the better ride course a few years ago, where dylan was the coach. he is an excellent teacher, and very good at conveying concepts that may be otherwise difficult to digest.
    94 Specialized Rockhopper

  10. #10
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by hairylegs View Post
    I don't know anything about the trail, but I can't imagine why you'd want to stiffen up the suspension and inflate the tires. I'd leave the suspension where I always have it (25-30% sag) and keep the tires as low as I could get away with before damaging the rims or burping.

    What's the terrain like that makes you guys recommend these two actions?
    The entire trail is hand shaped like a pump track from top to bottom. It isn't really a trail it is a track. I hope you can check it out soon and ride it from top to bottom. It should be entirely open May 1st or even sooner.

    Don't forget to buy a one day pass 5$ at Sunshine Bikes in Fairfax. Or even better buy a year pass or two year pass.

    Tamarancho - Sunshine Bicycle Center

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Normally I run pretty low pressure. I've got a tubeless set up and a hard tail. So it serves at a little bit of suspension. Normally corners on the mountain bike can't be taken at great speed. Switchbacks are mostly super super tight and having a lower pressure helps soak up braking bumps, roots and rocks.

    Fire roads are mostly flat and countersteering along with good traction seems to be the safest option.

    The first few times down the flow trail were on my dirt jumper. We were testing out the S turn and the bike worked great through the tall berms at speed. Even with semi slick dirt jumping tires. I run the dirt jumper tires at a very high pressure so much so that it made the ride back to town pretty uncomfortable.

    I tried the flow trail with my 29er and the lower pressure. It was a disaster! The rear tire has so much more force on it than normal that it started to "roll off" the rim. The sidewall was collapsing. I added about 10-15 psi and presto. The 29er performed nearly as well as the dirt jumper.

    A low seat and shorter stem seems to help nearly as much.

    Also I wanted to thank you for starting a positive thread about the trail. Way better than I ever did You rock bro!
    Thanks for the reply and advice - makes sense - I'm going to try this and look into that course as well.

    The inspiration to start up a thread talking about how awesome and unique this trail is came to me while I was climbing up to do another lap - I just thought with all the recent drama with Flow-gate(which needed to be addressed btw!), let's take a step back and admire what was accomplished (and hopefully I can learn how to really ride it!)

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    Hio
    Mountain biker-turned-BMXer here. With regard to suspension: MTB suspension is always trying to do two very different things, which we can simplify by thinking of in terms of your already familiar controls.
    Low-speed compression damping - small bump and rider input. For a Pump track, BMX track, flow trail there are no bumps, and you want rider input into the ground (this is pumping). The fastest bike would be a fully rigid. Tons of LSC or lockout.

    High-speed compression damping - This is your square-edge and big hit damping. No square edges on a pump track, BMX track, flow trail, but you can catch some good air or case hard trying. There are no flat landings, and if you case you are gonna bottom out, so HSC can be as high as you like here. Fully rigid BMX bikes land huge jumps to non-flat landings all day long. HSC may help your trail-bike spring rates not get overwhelmed.

    Traction low but nonessential. Forward momentum is provided by gravity and pump, you should be braking very gently, and cornering in a well-shaped berm actually doesn't require a lot of traction. Certainly not the kind we think about well-tuned suspension aiding.

    Tire pressure: This is smooth hard-pack. You want two things: low rolling resistance and pinch/burp protection. For many people, the way to coax these traits out of your tires is higher pressure.

    Last flow trail run, I was running my typical Butcher 2.3 front tubeless at ~26 PSI and it felt normal (excellent). I had just put another 2.3 Butcher on the back (a bigger rear tire than I usually run) and even at well over 30 PSI it felt like it was going to roll off. High G-forces, man. Very different from trail riding.

    Davey's advice is spot on.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squareback's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,517
    I'm bringing my 24.

  14. #14
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    I'm bringing my 24.
    Dan Barnes, who hand shaped nearly the entire trail, mentioned that his 24 cruiser would be a great option.

    The only problem is getting it to the trailhead

  15. #15
    Ride More - Suffer Less
    Reputation: TraxFactory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Posts
    2,289
    flow trail = single slalom....hard tails, smaller wheels, low CG will rule, but like DS said...you still gotta pedal in

  16. #16
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    I will also add: don't try and force catching air. Try and pump through the features to gain speed. Catching air will come naturally after you have mastered pumping. Like Arnold:

    http://youtu.be/7nZ1v96-veM

    The cool thing is that once you have mastered the pump you start seeing places to gain speed without pedaling everywhere. "Pumping on the singletrack, pumping on the fire road, pumping on the climbs, it's fantastic!"


    The advantage is that while pumping and gaining speed you stay really stable and you can keep your CG really low compared to pedaling. I am no expert at this. Guys like Dylan are. The track we built is a great place to practice, have fun and build skills.

  17. #17
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Normally I run pretty low pressure. I've got a tubeless set up and a hard tail. So it serves at a little bit of suspension. Normally corners on the mountain bike can't be taken at great speed. Switchbacks are mostly super super tight and having a lower pressure helps soak up braking bumps, roots and rocks.

    Fire roads are mostly flat and countersteering along with good traction seems to be the safest option.

    The first few times down the flow trail were on my dirt jumper. We were testing out the S turn and the bike worked great through the tall berms at speed. Even with semi slick dirt jumping tires. I run the dirt jumper tires at a very high pressure so much so that it made the ride back to town pretty uncomfortable.

    I tried the flow trail with my 29er and the lower pressure. It was a disaster! The rear tire has so much more force on it than normal that it started to "roll off" the rim. The sidewall was collapsing. I added about 10-15 psi and presto. The 29er performed nearly as well as the dirt jumper.

    A low seat and shorter stem seems to help nearly as much.

    Also I wanted to thank you for starting a positive thread about the trail. You rock bro!


    Man, all this talk about more air pressure is true.
    I also had my tire pressure pretty low, and it felt like the tires were rolling off the rims in the berms.
    Pump 'em up for the Flow track is what i'm gonna do now, cause this thing is hard packed and FAST!!
    And yes all this positive talk about the Flow makes me think Tamo is about to BLOW UP!!

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)-17975_miscellaneous_nuclear_explosion_explosion.jpg

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dagonger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,056
    ohh cant wait to try this new track with the boys...

  19. #19
    ~~~
    Reputation: tburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,036
    After moving some lumber today, we headed to the bottom to move some more dirt. Got a chance to roll/walk down the middle section... Man, it's gonna be sweet! I'm already anticipating burning quads on multiple laps.

    The skills area is looking great, too.

  20. #20
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    For those of us working, this thread is useless without pics/vids.
    Im going out there toomorow. ; )
    Will report back with images.
    G

  21. #21
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    For those of us working, this thread is useless without pics/vids.
    Im going out there toomorow. ; )
    Will report back with images.
    G
    Movie! Movie! Movie!

  22. #22
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Movie! Movie! Movie!
    Ok
    Sounds good Dave.
    Ill make one tomorrow.
    G

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    First top-to-bottom run in today.
    So good. And the woodwork we ~finished today is really rad. But the trail... just amazingly fun. Always a new challenge as your speed increases. I want to hike my DJ in badly. Go get some, people.

  24. #24
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    First top-to-bottom run in today.
    So good. And the woodwork we ~finished today is really rad. But the trail... just amazingly fun. Always a new challenge as your speed increases. I want to hike my DJ in badly. Go get some, people.
    DJ - tips

    I love riding my DJ here. It took me some time to figure out the best method but after 2 months of hiking in due to cold weather I got it dialed.

    Drive to the top of whites hill. Push/ride up white hill trail, porcupine trail white hill fire road, B-17 extension to flow trail. 20-30 minutes depending on how much you ride vs. hike

    Please avoid driving into camp. It's even more of a PITA to get there from the very limited camp parking (which is why it is not permitted) than whites and there is this lost troop of scouts that has gone cannibal. Lord of the flies style.

    Also if you push - at the bottom off the trail geared bikes go right. Push bikes go left. It is a 10-15 minute ride up Broken Dam and B-17 ext. 10 minute push up dead heifer. In short we are trying to separate XC from the DH. They can't sit in the same car together on long road trips without fighting, DH keeps calling XC a poo poo head and XC stole DH's blankie.

    Obviously it would be dangerous to push back up the flow trail. And way longer. Please don't be that guy. We finally have a trail were you can scream STRAVA and be a dick and not actually upset anyone hiking or riding up because that shouldn't happen.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    Thanks for the advice!

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dagonger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,056
    any tour guides down to show a few of us around next week mid week?

  27. #27
    I like mtn biking, too
    Reputation: shredchic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,186
    Ah, interesting. So the flow trail rides more like a pump track, it sounds. That is completely new for the bay area. It'll be well worthwhile to go and hit up those friends I have in Fairfax that I've been meaning to catch up with! haha...
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
    ~Fairfaxian

  28. #28
    遅すぎ
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    378
    Put some time in moving dirt and timber with tburger on Sat. It's really sweet. It does ride like a downhill pump track; saw some guys on hardtail manualing most of the rollers at the top. Definitely requires a different skill set which I'd really like to develop, can't wait for it to officially open top to bottom.

  29. #29
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    Thanks for the advice!
    Not directed at you at all. It was a good opportunity to get the word out. We just rode down the reccomended push route together so I am sure you know the way.

  30. #30
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by yeti575inCA View Post
    any tour guides down to show a few of us around next week mid week?
    I would be but I am out of town until the 25th. Willing to show anyone around after that.

    Stop in at Sunshine Bikes in Fairfax and they will get you directions and a one day pass 5$.

  31. #31
    WWYD?
    Reputation: johnnyb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,592
    Thank you, thank you, thank you! Davey and the whole trail crew for making something special!

    I rode the Flow several times today and my inaugural ride was behind Mark Weir and his crew, needless to say that they killed it! And me, well, on a fat front rigid and for the first time I didn't crash but it wasn't too much for my type of bike. Three times to the bottom. I think ride/hike up Dead Heifer is the quickest way back. For a while there must have been twenty people up there at 1pm.

    Trail condition is excellent, with a little drying/cracking on the edges, but it's going to be awesome in the future!

  32. #32
    banned
    Reputation: oakhills's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    913
    Thank you to everyone who built the trail! It is much bigger and longer than expected. When I was out there today, I didn't expect it to be open or even completed.

    One thing I learned about riding the trail: Breathe. Don't forget to breathe!

    Oh, and my legs and upper body were quite tired at the bottom...damn, I'm getting old.

  33. #33
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Katana View Post
    Thank you to everyone who built the trail! It is much bigger and longer than expected. When I was out there today, I didn't expect it to be open or even completed.

    One thing I learned about riding the trail: Breathe. Don't forget to breathe!

    Oh, and my legs and upper body were quite tired at the bottom...damn, I'm getting old.




    Have fun everyone!

  34. #34
    J-Flo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,692
    So is the Dead Heifer fire road now open to bikes? I thought it was bike-forbidden (except for during the Tamarancho Dirt Classic, when it is part of the course). That is a nice steep climb, is it OK to ride up it or is it "pushers only"?

    Thanks for all the great work!

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,071
    thanks for all the hard work guys!

    semi-related question, as i haven't been to tamorancho since last year--is it still ok to park in the parking lot w/ the coffee drive thru hut in the middle? we used to buy our passes at the bike shop just across the street from it, then ride into the park. if that's no longer an option, where are you guys parking? thanks for the info!
    94 Specialized Rockhopper

  36. #36
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jfloren View Post
    So is the Dead Heifer fire road now open to bikes? I thought it was bike-forbidden (except for during the Tamarancho Dirt Classic, when it is part of the course). That is a nice steep climb, is it OK to ride up it or is it "pushers only"?

    Thanks for all the great work!
    Well. It is but sorta. It is forbidden to use it to ride into camp because the cannibal scouts might get you. It is OK to use it to push or ride (you sicko) to stay out of the way of riders on Broken Dam. Clear as mud.

    Use Dead Heifer to White Hill FR (past the gate) and back to B-17 ext then back to the flow trail.

  37. #37
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by dth656 View Post
    thanks for all the hard work guys!

    semi-related question, as i haven't been to tamorancho since last year--is it still ok to park in the parking lot w/ the coffee drive thru hut in the middle? we used to buy our passes at the bike shop just across the street from it, then ride into the park. if that's no longer an option, where are you guys parking? thanks for the info!
    The new grocery store is making that lot a bad option. I'm not good at parking advice as I live a few blocks away and only use my car to drive to the Oakland airport. Anyone have good ideas?

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    A suggestion:
    Right now there is an ATV track from Dead Heiffer cutting 'left' to the skills area that was used during construction. It seems to conveniently bring you back to the skills area and B17ext, but you cross the flow trail in a blind corner, and Jim mentioned to me that it was only for the ATV and temporary. I think a sign/tape on Dead Heiffer forbidding people to ride/push up it might be a good idea. To speed the recovery of the vegetation and get people going the correct way.

    @dth656 I have asked the guys in the shop at Fairfax Cycles if it is OK to park in their lot, you could try the same.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    1,071
    i'll try asking the folks at Fairfax, thanks!
    94 Specialized Rockhopper

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    531
    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyb View Post
    I rode the Flow several times today and my inaugural ride was behind Mark Weir and his crew:eekster:, ....
    Interesting that they spent so much time helping (not) and still managed to show up the day after it is completed.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    531
    As far as parking in Fairfax, there are ~15 spots in the Fairfax Cyclery parking lot which are kosher. Otherwise pretty much everything in town is 2-4 hour limit on the weekends.

  42. #42
    WWYD?
    Reputation: johnnyb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,592
    That might be true but we should stay positive. I know I didn't help on the flow construction, i work Saturdays and have kids, but I've helped out on the xc part for years and I write a check for a hundred bucks for my pass. I think Weir does a lot to keep the mtb community positive, plus their was a photo crew from Bike magazine with him. Maybe they asked him to do it because I only saw him ride it once--really fast!

    If the viewpoint is exclusivity to the trail by only people that made it, than Boy Scouts should pay admission for others. I would pay it and I'm sure others would too. I don't have the free time I used to and the one afternoon a week I get is pretty precious.

  43. #43
    WWYD?
    Reputation: johnnyb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Well. It is but sorta. It is forbidden to use it to ride into camp because the cannibal scouts might get you. It is OK to use it to push or ride (you sicko) to stay out of the way of riders on Broken Dam. Clear as mud.

    Use Dead Heifer to White Hill FR (past the gate) and back to B-17 ext then back to the flow trail.
    I didn't know it was not cool to go up Dead Heifer, but considering that most riders go clockwise on Tamarancho I thought it would be a good alternative. But there isn't any signage put up stating otherwise. A loophole as it might be. It is the quickest way back to the fireroad.

    It's your call, Jefe.
    Last edited by johnnyb; 04-17-2013 at 01:29 AM. Reason: spanglish!

  44. #44
    WWYD?
    Reputation: johnnyb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    The new grocery store is making that lot a bad option. I'm not good at parking advice as I live a few blocks away and only use my car to drive to the Oakland airport. Anyone have good ideas?
    You have about a dozen spots on Glen Drive by White Hill school near the fireroad entrance. A handful at the top of Sir Francis Drake at the turnout for White Hill too.
    Last edited by johnnyb; 04-17-2013 at 02:19 PM.

  45. #45
    J-Flo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,692
    I am assuming the Flow Trail will be a major attraction and that Dead Heifer will be the better way to go back up on a weekend, to avoid traffic coming down Broken Dam. Plus it is a good monster of a climb. Wait a minute, maybe nobody will want to come down Broken Dam anymore (although that is fun too).

  46. #46
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    To be clear. We are encouraging geared bikes to ride up Broken Dam. In the rare case of a gravity oriented rider who has a bike that needs to be pushed uphill: we are encouraging pushing all the way to Whites Hill fire road and using B-17 to ride to the entrance of the Flow Trail.

    This is to separate the push traffic from riding traffic on Broken Dam.

    There is a camp nearby and the Scouts could halt the practice. This is all an experiment / trail. Please bear with us.

  47. #47
    Sweater
    Reputation: Buzzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Practice, practice, practice.

    Helpful tips:

    Don't try and go fast. In other words don't force it. I know it sounds corny but "just go with the flow." Over time you will get faster and faster.
    Contact | RENNCRAFT
    This is something I'm learning on the new Culvert trail in Auburn. I find when I force it I come into the berms with way too much speed and then grabbing brakes all the way through the berms and being erratic. It's more fun and faster when I control my speed and coming into the turn slower. Then I can convince myself to get my fingers off the brakes and I end up exiting the berm much faster and with more control of the bike.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  48. #48
    WWYD?
    Reputation: johnnyb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,592
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    To be clear. We are encouraging geared bikes to ride up Broken Dam. In the rare case of a gravity oriented rider who has a bike that needs to be pushed uphill: we are encouraging pushing all the way to Whites Hill fire road and using B-17 to ride to the entrance of the Flow Trail.

    This is to separate the push traffic from riding traffic on Broken Dam.

    There is a camp nearby and the Scouts could halt the practice. This is all an experiment / trail. Please bear with us.

    Clear as mud. I'm assuming taking Broken Dam/Whites Hill to get there from Fairfax. But what about a return from a run? You can get to the entrance from several directions.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fairfaxian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    669
    Small hazard on Porcupine Trail -needs a quick fix:

    I discovered a little natural hazard on the way up Porcupine. I didn't have a handsaw, and can't get back there for awhile. If anyone would care to fix this, a small handsaw is all that's needed. Heading UP Porcupine there is a right had switchback early on (in the trees) in the middle of the trail just above the turn. There is a fairly sharp root that has become exposed over time. It could take out a tire if hit head-on in the downhill direction. Snipping this little sucker to ground level might just save somebody's day.

    Thanks
    I like to bike.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    88
    Rode the flow trail top to bottom today! It was awesome. Got a good workout without hardly pedaling, reminds me of riding motocross bikes. It was especially sweet to ride across features that I helped build.
    If understand the pass situation correctly, the money you pay on the pass goes to the scouts to offset insurance costs. For the trails to remain they require volunteers to help maintain them.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    433
    I was lucky enough to take a top to bottom run this weekend after pitching in for a bit and the trail turned out better than I could have imagined! It does take some time to learn and if you're not paying attention, you might end up sailing into the woods off some of the berms so make sure and take a few practice runs to learn the turns.

    It's awesome that this kind of trail now exists (legally). Thanks to Davey, Jim J, and everybody else that put in some effort to build a great and hopefully special trail!

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449

    What I Learned Today on the Flow Trail - Berm Basics

    Snuck in a few laps before heading toward Monterey and the SOC dual slalom.

    Here's what I learned: The well-tread line on many of the berms in just not high enough (yet). How one corners in a berm is just a matter of lean angle, turn radius, and speed, so I am not writing this to toot my horn or whatever. I am not a great rider. I'm just saying, I had a bit of a revelation trying to go faster and I thought others might benefit from it.

    There are several inches (as much as a foot) of berm above the line most people are hitting. In my earlier runs (earlier today, earlier this week), I experienced some tires letting go through the low-to-mid portion of the berms, and was unsettled in a noobish way. Today it clicked, and I took my corners higher up as I got up to speed. It took a lot of mental effort to ignore the cracked appearance of the berm tops, and leave the comfort of the middle line, but it immediately paid off. The more the berm angle steepens, the less 'extra' bike lean w/ respect to the trail is needed at a given speed and radius. Sorry to everyone who has ridden a pump track a bunch and who found all this totally obvious. I did it for the kids.

    If you feel your tires working too hard, especially if you are steering them through the loose dust near the bottoms of the berms, give the higher line a try.

    Also finally made a corner I find tricky on the skills area woodwork. Pumped!

  53. #53
    rho
    rho is offline
    Life is strange
    Reputation: rho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,982
    I need to get out there!
    Soon!

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: IP_Ale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    210
    After so much anticipation, I was finally able to ride the full flow trail from top to bottom. More than once. A huge pile of accolades and kudos to everyone who was involved in making the trail happen: those that negotiated with the Boy Scouts, the flow designers/planners, those that rallied the troops of volunteers & documented the build progress, those that donated money/time and to everyone who picked up a rake, a shovel, a sledgehammer or a McLeod...Thank You! It is so great, and so different than anything else we have to ride in the bay area...and most of all, it is so fun.

    I was with about a dozen people, after work yesterday, and everyone was so excited to check out the new trail. On the way up, we saw a few other MTBers exiting Tamarancho, and you could just tell by their huge grins that they had a great time on the new trail. I was one of the first of our group to come down, and one of the best parts was watching each person exit the trail on Dead Heifer, and having *exactly* the same reaction: "Oh. My. God. That was soooo FUN!" Over and over, everyone said it! Most of us admitted we rode it in a very unskilled manner, and there is a lot to learn with respect to maximizing skills and fun on a trail like that. So much to look forward to.

    Some observations:

    1) The skills area is sweet. There are a few different lines that vary the challenge, and it can be ridden in either direction to mix things up. The multipurpose chainsaw "art" on the logs is great.

    2) Those bridges! Wow, they are fun to swoop over, and they are so beautifully built.

    3) Some of those berms are *huge* and super-fast to ricochet through.

    4) Despite hardly pedaling, and going downhill, the trail is still more of a physical workout that you would expect. Your legs are pumped when you are done. Also, the smile muscles in your face will be extremely fatigued.

    I'm really looking forward to helping maintain the trail, riding it more, and hopefully getting the opportunity to follow someone who really knows what they are doing. Thanks again, and go get some of that flow!

  55. #55
    VRC Illuminati
    Reputation: Rumpfy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    17,648
    Rode it Thursday...lucky for it to be open as I'm rarely that far north. I literally had the entire thing to myself. Two laps down Flow is all I had time for...never saw another person. I have to admit it was kinda strange riding such an amazing fresh trail that everyone will go crazy over....alone.
    Definitely some things that need to settle and lines to get worked in, but wow. Amazing work and a huge thanks to all of you that made this happen.

    Its inspired me to donate and put in work for Demo Flow.

    A huge win and a positive event for mountain bikers in the Bay Area.
    -eric-

    http://www.rumpfy.com
    Wanted: NDS Suntour XC Pro Microdrive 175mm Crank Arm.

  56. #56
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumpfy View Post
    Rode it Thursday...lucky for it to be open as I'm rarely that far north. I literally had the entire thing to myself. Two laps down Flow is all I had time for...never saw another person. I have to admit it was kinda strange riding such an amazing fresh trail that everyone will go crazy over....alone.
    Definitely some things that need to settle and lines to get worked in, but wow. Amazing work and a huge thanks to all of you that made this happen.

    Its inspired me to donate and put in work for Demo Flow.

    A huge win and a positive event for mountain bikers in the Bay Area.
    Thanks for the props!

    I'm hoping land managers will be as equally excited. Keep bikes on bike trails (because they are so much fun), built for zero cost and more sustainable (drains better) than a traditional bench cut trail.

    Not all that surprised you got it alone, weekday evenings and weekend afternoons were the high traffic times for the trail when we opened the top only section.

    My first experience with a flow trail was similar. Forbidden Fruit near Ketchum, ID. Rode it alone so many times and I couldn't imagine why.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    6
    Please help a brother get there. I live in Terra Linda and usually ride over the hill down Fawn to Butterfield, etc. Should I just ride iron springs to broken dam and start listening for the hoots and hollars? Or is there an easier way?
    THANK YOU to Davey and everyone who worked on this. Will I ever want to do the old loop again?

  58. #58
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by jaltura View Post
    Please help a brother get there. I live in Terra Linda and usually ride over the hill down Fawn to Butterfield, etc. Should I just ride iron springs to broken dam and start listening for the hoots and hollars? Or is there an easier way?
    THANK YOU to Davey and everyone who worked on this. Will I ever want to do the old loop again?


    Thanks.

    I'm sure you will do the "old" loop again. The new trail is a fun addition. The loop, esp. wagon wheel are great for those who love a rocky tech challenge.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    6
    Awesome, thanks Davey for posting the map. I've always wished Trancho was longer. Doing Flow a few times after coming off B-17 will be sick. You da man.

  60. #60
    Lightly salted
    Reputation: fuenstock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,379
    If one wants to do multi loops of flow trail is it better to get back to the top by broken dam/b17 or dead heifer? It's been many years since I rode tamo and I've only riden it maybe 2 times so I don't know the trails.
    Thanks to everyone involved in making the flow trail happen!

  61. #61
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by fuenstock View Post
    If one wants to do multi loops of flow trail is it better to get back to the top by broken dam/b17 or dead heifer? It's been many years since I rode tamo and I've only riden it maybe 2 times so I don't know the trails.
    Thanks to everyone involved in making the flow trail happen!
    If one has a geared bike it is my preference to ride the easy single track spin up Broken Dam and B-17 ext.

    If one has a dirt jumper or other bike that requires it be pushed I would push it up Dead Heifer. Why? As a courtesy to other riders who should not have to pass a rider pushing his bike on a narrow single track and it is faster than pushing up Broken Dam.

    So to be clear. Pushing up broken dam isn't courteous and it is slower.

    Riding any of the fire roads other than this small section of of Dead Heifer is verboten. I asked about opening it up because I felt it would reduce conflict between DH and XC.

    Clear as mud?

  62. #62
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,919
    Holy crud! That trail is the bomb! Thanks Davey Simon and all others. How does maintenance work on berms? They were getting some wear just today. If I knew how big features would be, I would have helped more than first day of clearing duff. You people are very impressive. Any chance of scheduling additional work ahead of time, so I can help maintain?

  63. #63
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,919
    Re reading some other posts, it would be cool to have a way to help maintain even if I don't lurk on mtbr. I think some of us that are working/commuting 50 hours a week would like to be notified of work days for Tamarancho.

  64. #64
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    Holy crud! That trail is the bomb! Thanks Davey Simon and all others. How does maintenance work on berms? They were getting some wear just today. If I knew how big features would be, I would have helped more than first day of clearing duff. You people are very impressive. Any chance of scheduling additional work ahead of time, so I can help maintain?
    Everyone is taking a little break from working on the trail. I'm burnt out. Posting stuff on the FB page and checking out this thread is about all I've got for now. Of course I'm working right now and I travel for work so I couldn't organize any work days even if I wanted to.

    We have picked out a name for the trail and I can't even motivate to post about it. Maybe monday.

    The best way to keep a finger on the pulse of the work days is to check the Facebook page. Listed on my signature. www.facebook.com/tamoflow

    We need to get people to help water the trail but we have not finished the water system.

    Anyway. I just flew 4000 miles and I have a headache because I'm so dehydrated. Keep posting positive stuff. Photos and movies. Get people stoked.

    All of the builders appreciate the positive input and we are going to need everyones help.

    For now lets enjoy it.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Rode it today, was sweet. Super leg workout. Looking forward to going back and learning the course even better!

  66. #66
    screamer
    Reputation: budgie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    1,331
    Yep, me too! (Think I maybe saw you Yody at the old Good Life, the other guy on the white HD?) Hit the flow twice on my typical double-CW loop. There seemed to be a whole different crowd there today, and I'm guessing quite a few made the trip just to ride the new trail. So the word is out, which is cool (particularly if all those people bought passes). The one thing I wasn't expecting is an increase in CCW traffic, as people are wanting to get their flow on at the beginning of the ride. So maybe we should call this the (Reverse the) Flow Trail. Anyway, if that's the change then it's just something else to get used to. (Chapped my hide a bit b/c of some shaky trail etiquette, but I'll get over it.) At any rate, good to see some new, beginner riders out there getting the stoke on. That has to be a good thing in the long run.
    On heavy rotation: White Lung: Deep Fantasy

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Quote Originally Posted by budgie View Post
    Yep, me too! (Think I maybe saw you Yody at the old Good Life, the other guy on the white HD?) Hit the flow twice on my typical double-CW loop. There seemed to be a whole different crowd there today, and I'm guessing quite a few made the trip just to ride the new trail. So the word is out, which is cool (particularly if all those people bought passes). The one thing I wasn't expecting is an increase in CCW traffic, as people are wanting to get their flow on at the beginning of the ride. So maybe we should call this the (Reverse the) Flow Trail. Anyway, if that's the change then it's just something else to get used to. (Chapped my hide a bit b/c of some shaky trail etiquette, but I'll get over it.) At any rate, good to see some new, beginner riders out there getting the stoke on. That has to be a good thing in the long run.
    Oh hey I saw you on the trail also! haha small world. Yeah a lot of people there today to ride the flow trail, and not your typical All Mountain kitted out riders but all sorts of riders from kids, to dads, to weekend warriors, etc. I managed to KOM it today while riding with a few friends (who didn't strava). But looking at the list on Strava I'm not seeing the usual rippers. I know there's still a lot of time left on the table. Will be interesting to see how fast people get going down it. I'd imagine some fast dual slalom guys will be able to really dial it in.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Hikers Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Here' my thoughts on getting back up. Weekdays as Davey said spin back up Broken Dam and then up B17 Ext. On a busy weekend I say push back up Dead Heffer take a left at the T junction and it brings you out right by the skills section and takes 5-8 mins and keeps the trail clear for those that want to have fun rippin down Broken Dam!

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    This is definitely the fastest route back to flow trail but my understanding from a previous post was that this little shortcut from Dead Heifer to skills area is not really a trail that is supposed to be open, but rather a temporary ATV route that is now closed. The legit route is all the way up Dead Heifer to White Hill Fire Road then Down B-17 ext. to flow. Can anybody confirm whether or not that little shortcut is legit? (would be nice if it is)

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    How bad is the dead heifer climb? I remember it being awful from am xc race there a few yeara ago. is it that much shorter or is it just all around better to go up broken dam?

  71. #71
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    This is definitely the fastest route back to flow trail but my understanding from a previous post was that this little shortcut from Dead Heifer to skills area is not really a trail that is supposed to be open, but rather a temporary ATV route that is now closed. The legit route is all the way up Dead Heifer to White Hill Fire Road then Down B-17 ext. to flow. Can anybody confirm whether or not that little shortcut is legit? (would be nice if it is)
    First off disclaimer: I don't want to be trail boss. I don't like the idea of "telling" anyone to do anything. I'm just like you guys. I am a mountain biker who wants to be able to ride everywhere.

    OK I will answer this one and I will be uber careful about doing so. First of all rednova75 is THE MAN as he and his crew came and helped during the crucial beginning stages of the build when I was trying to convince everyone that DH and DJ riders would help us. These guys showed that the local gravity riders were worth engaging with and that they were MORE likely to build trail than XC riders (debate-able yes).

    Yes the ATV track "short cut" is closed Why?

    Well it is a scout camp. It isn't being used as a camp now but as I have learned once mountain bikers are habituated to using a route it is impossible to stop them. So it would suck if people got in the habit of using the short cut and then got all butt hurt they couldn't use it anymore because we fixed the water tank that services the camp (to water the trail) and the scouts started using it again.

    The scouts own the property and if it had not been a scout camp we would have pushed the trail through the camp as it is the nicest flat area to build on rather than the steep difficult area we were forced to build. It is however a scout camp. Expect scouts to be camping there. You know the ones that are cannibals and eat human flesh. Either way they should not see you and you should not see them.

    That is how this whole relationship works. That is why there are trails that we can ride because we respect the scouts. That is why we can have nice things right? Do you know what I am saying?


  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    How bad is the dead heifer climb? I remember it being awful from am xc race there a few yeara ago. is it that much shorter or is it just all around better to go up broken dam?
    Dead Heifer is a painful b!+ch of a climb - short, but brutally steep. It's definitely a more direct route, but as far as time, it would probably take slightly longer going up DH, depending on how much walking you do.

    BTW, anybody know why it's called Dead Heifer? - I have some guesses

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    The ride CCW up Broken Dam is pretty easy, even standing the entire way on a slalom/DJ bike. Entering Tamarancho by Iron Springs, Alchemist, then CCW Goldman is also pretty nice (tried it for the first time Wednesday before Sea Otter; I've always ridden CW in the past). The push up Dead Heiffer isn't terrible, but I personally wouldn't choose it on any bike that can be pedalled.

    For these reasons, I believe Tamarancho riders will have to learn to expect more CCW trail use (unless the scouts/friends of tamarancho lay a strict rule down). Everyone mind your manners in both directions, be safe, and we all have fun. That's my 2c.

  74. #74
    (slight return)
    Reputation: slide mon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,135
    Wow, this trail is the best thing to happen to the Marin mountain bike world since I started riding in Marin about 10 years ago! I went out with a buddy this morning and we took 4 laps on the flow trail. I really loved the top half, and there is a short section just before the midpoint with a couple quick steep turns through tight redwoods that may be my favorite section of trail anywhere, ever. Lots of people out there today, lots of sh!t eating grins and whoops of stoke coming from the forest.

    The trail really reminder me of Sidewinder in South Tahoe, one of my all time favorite trails. Going down Broken Dam used to be my favorite section of Tamarancho, but I think I will mostly be riding it up from now on, going back for repeats on the Flow trail. Seriously amazing work, love it!

    -slide

  75. #75
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    The ride CCW up Broken Dam is pretty easy, even standing the entire way on a slalom/DJ bike. Entering Tamarancho by Iron Springs, Alchemist, then CCW Goldman is also pretty nice (tried it for the first time Wednesday before Sea Otter; I've always ridden CW in the past). The push up Dead Heiffer isn't terrible, but I personally wouldn't choose it on any bike that can be pedalled.

    For these reasons, I believe Tamarancho riders will have to learn to expect more CCW trail use (unless the scouts/friends of tamarancho lay a strict rule down). Everyone mind your manners in both directions, be safe, and we all have fun. That's my 2c.
    What is CCW?

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: snodrift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    112

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Counter clockwise?

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    counter-clockwise

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fairfaxian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    669
    What's wrong with taking Porcupine up? You can catch a nice flat warm-up from White Hill School, or a pavement burn to Brown Bridge. Then its mellow, shady climbing, some of which can be refreshing on a hot day.

    Before the Tamaracho loop was completed, it was an out-n-back which is how the CW direction remains the suggested default- esp. on weekends. Less oncoming traffic allows for more FLOWY descents. I like going both directions, but stick to CW on weekends.

    BTW- later afternoon has much less traffic.

    A grey haired XC scoundrel such as myself will never style the flow trail in the manner it deserves -so where are the vids?
    I like to bike.

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    How far back from the bridge would you have to park?

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    59

    Brown Bridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    How far back from the bridge would you have to park?
    There is lots of Parking at the Brown Bridge on both sides.

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    How far back from the bridge would you have to park?
    Sounds like a good way to avoid having to go all the way thru Tamo if one just wanted to hit flow trail

  82. #82
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Sounds like a good way to avoid having to go all the way thru Tamo if one just wanted to hit flow trail
    Yep. For the folks that like the XC the new trail is a neat addition to the loop.

    For those that like the DH or DJ the new trail is the destination.

    I'm hoping for some cross pollination between the groups.

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation: somanygoodbikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    493
    Rolled down the Flow Trail with a friend yesterday, just to see it. The scale was a bit awe inspiring. The first view of the segment with parallel tracks stacked up between the giant bowl turns had me talking out loud to no one in particular at first sight. More like a bobsled run than any trail I've ever seen.

    It may just be the way my mind works but my nickname for top half is the Small Intestine and the lower half is the Large Intestine.

    The skills area was fun too.

    Very impressed with the work done here.

  84. #84
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)



    Brian P took the time to name the trail on the Facebook page. Thanks Brian P!

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dagonger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,056
    We rode it today and was also our first time riding the area.. Great ride in and out to flow. Thanks to everyone who made it happen! We will be back.. Flow teaches you a lot and bottom half def works more of your legs...

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: three3nine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    205
    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    Oh hey I saw you on the trail also! haha small world. Yeah a lot of people there today to ride the flow trail, and not your typical All Mountain kitted out riders but all sorts of riders from kids, to dads, to weekend warriors, etc. I managed to KOM it today while riding with a few friends (who didn't strava). But looking at the list on Strava I'm not seeing the usual rippers. I know there's still a lot of time left on the table. Will be interesting to see how fast people get going down it. I'd imagine some fast dual slalom guys will be able to really dial it in.
    I think there are some folks who are already emotionally attached to their leaderboard times. A friend and I rode it yesterday and he KOM'ed it at 2:37 then I did at 2:19 on my second run. We rode the legit trail from top to bottom, same as everyone else (there's no way to shortcut it anyway) and it seems whoever we dislodged didn't feel the segments were legit, so we both got flagged. Even yesterday on Monday mid-afternoon there were a lot of riders out, people will be KOM'ing it constantly for a while at first... But to the flagger, way to go, very sportsmanlike, you're awesome and the fastest!

    I have to say, the trail is really well done. I rode the top half maybe a month ago, but to ride the whole thing is pretty cool. Hopefully we'll get another splash of rain soon. It's seems to holding up well, but a few berms could use some water...and yesterday so could I! It was hot!
    Last edited by three3nine; 04-23-2013 at 08:37 AM. Reason: typos

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    wow a 2:19, thats movin. What kinda bike are you on?

  88. #88
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by three3nine View Post
    I think there are some folks who are already emotionally attached to their leaderboard times. A friend and I rode it yesterday and he KOM'ed it at 2:37 then I did at 2:19 on my second run. We rode the legit trail from top to bottom, same as everyone else (there's no way to shortcut it anyway) and it seems whoever we dislodged didn't feel the segments were legit, so we both got flagged. Even yesterday on Monday mid-afternoon there were a lot of riders out, people will be KOM'ing it constantly for a while at first... But to the flagger, way to go, very sportsmanlike, you're awesome and the fastest!

    I have to say, the trail is really well done. I rode the top half maybe a month ago, but to ride the whole thing is pretty cool. Hopefully we'll get another splash of rain soon. It's seems to holding up well, but a few berms could use some water...and yesterday so could I! It was hot!
    Likely there will be some inaccuracy with GPS due to the North facing slope and the trees. I highly doubt that anyone is getting a true 3D GPS lock up there. 2/3 of the horizon is obscured by terrain and the few satellites you can pick up would be sketchy at best because of the tree cover.

    I don't use Strava but I'd say its pretty pointless to try and hold a KOM dear. We didn't even know the true length of the trail until someone rode it with an old school cycle computer and who knows if it was calibrated correctly. This was due to the fact that even when we walked the trail it just plotted three straight lines through the berm sections. That was while walking. Likely a Garmin is just doing the same thing, or worse at 15 MPH.

    Reason stands, IMHO, to just ride the trail and enjoy it. Your not going to get the experience any other place in the Bay Area for a long, long time.

  89. #89
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post


    Brian P took the time to name the trail on the Facebook page. Thanks Brian P!
    Star Wars reference?
    As in The Forest Of Endor?

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: three3nine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    205
    Yody: '13 tallboy ltc

    Davey, I agree for sure, it's unlikely that I was fastest, it's just what Strava showed. The funny thing is that it got flagged before I even got home... But for the reasons you cited, GPS accuracy on that slope, on a comparatively short and wildly twisty and curvy trail is fairly unlikely. In accuracy or not, it's kind of funny as someone (presumably top holder) flagged both of us within an hour or our ride, but it's all good, the trail
    is really cool, fun and a new challenge. Thanks for everyone's hard work!

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Hikers Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Quote Originally Posted by three3nine View Post
    I think there are some folks who are already emotionally attached to their leaderboard times. A friend and I rode it yesterday and he KOM'ed it at 2:37 then I did at 2:19 on my second run. We rode the legit trail from top to bottom, same as everyone else (there's no way to shortcut it anyway) and it seems whoever we dislodged didn't feel the segments were legit, so we both got flagged. Even yesterday on Monday mid-afternoon there were a lot of riders out, people will be KOM'ing it constantly for a while at first... But to the flagger, way to go, very sportsmanlike, you're awesome and the fastest!

    I have to say, the trail is really well done. I rode the top half maybe a month ago, but to ride the whole thing is pretty cool. Hopefully we'll get another splash of rain soon. It's seems to holding up well, but a few berms could use some water...and yesterday so could I! It was hot!
    Strava is going to be useless on this trail, and there will be all kinds of crazy times, especially with all the tight switch backs and with the things Davey mentioned! I mean look at the top 2 times for the upper section 17 and 18 seconds, that is just not possible! The only accurate way to find your time on this trail would be with a good old stop watch. So lets not worry about getting the KOM, and just have fun and go with the FLOW!

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Likely there will be some inaccuracy with GPS due to the North facing slope and the trees. I highly doubt that anyone is getting a true 3D GPS lock up there. 2/3 of the horizon is obscured by terrain and the few satellites you can pick up would be sketchy at best because of the tree cover.

    I don't use Strava but I'd say its pretty pointless to try and hold a KOM dear. We didn't even know the true length of the trail until someone rode it with an old school cycle computer and who knows if it was calibrated correctly. This was due to the fact that even when we walked the trail it just plotted three straight lines through the berm sections. That was while walking. Likely a Garmin is just doing the same thing, or worse at 15 MPH.

    Reason stands, IMHO, to just ride the trail and enjoy it. Your not going to get the experience any other place in the Bay Area for a long, long time.
    Funny I was going to say the same thing. Its completely covered by trees and is less than 3 minutes, and most people are using cell phones for their strava. no way its gonna be very accurate. Especially if someone could cut out part of the very beginning. There are already two strava segments, one of which is claiming is more accurate than the other. Its fun to see the KOM crown, but it doesnt' have much meaning.

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Quote Originally Posted by three3nine View Post
    Yody: '13 tallboy ltc

    Davey, I agree for sure, it's unlikely that I was fastest, it's just what Strava showed. The funny thing is that it got flagged before I even got home... But for the reasons you cited, GPS accuracy on that slope, on a comparatively short and wildly twisty and curvy trail is fairly unlikely. In accuracy or not, it's kind of funny as someone (presumably top holder) flagged both of us within an hour or our ride, but it's all good, the trail
    is really cool, fun and a new challenge. Thanks for everyone's hard work!
    How is the 29r through all that, figured a big wheeler would be awkward, apparently not so?

  94. #94
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    Star Wars reference?
    As in The Forest Of Endor?
    Yep!

  95. #95
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    How is the 29r through all that, figured a big wheeler would be awkward, apparently not so?
    I'm riding an all mountain 29er a Canfield Yelli Screamy. Seems perfect. Although the dirt jumper is super fun as well. A friend of mine who is uber fast and apparently doubling some of the bigger rollers claims his 29er is faster than the 26 option.

    I think short wheel base with a slack head tube is the winning combo if accomplished with short chainstays.

    Again there is no KOM for the most fun had, but that took me about 30 years to figure out...

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hanskellner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    so where are the vids?
    I'm planning a 4th Flow Trail episode which will be riding focused. Slammed with work, projects, racing at the moment so it won't be until next week.
    My Cycling Videos: Vimeo | YouTube | My Website

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squareback's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,517
    Before there is any confusion, I want to say that the actual Endor filming wasn't here, but farther out in the valley. I know for sure one of the motorcycle riders was John Mcleod, and I think maybe Mike Helms, who rode through the redwoods and gathered footage.

  98. #98
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    Before there is any confusion, I want to say that the actual Endor filming wasn't here, but farther out in the valley. I know for sure one of the motorcycle riders was John Mcleod, and I think maybe Mike Helms, who rode through the redwoods and gathered footage.
    We were calling it the "Forrest Moon of Sandor" when we watched Sandor singlehandedly dispose of giant downed trees with his chainsaw.

  99. #99
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cheetabrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    57
    Where can I find a map of the trails and where to park to ride the flow trail? Where do I purchase a day pass?

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hanskellner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by cheetabrian View Post
    Where can I find a map of the trails and where to park to ride the flow trail? Where do I purchase a day pass?
    Tamarancho Loop & Flow Trail - Sunshine Bicycle Center
    My Cycling Videos: Vimeo | YouTube | My Website

  101. #101
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)


  102. #102
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912
    Worst movie I've evar made.
    Song is nice and ghey, picked out by Danna Montanna for it's, "Things are about to change" lyrics, because, well, they are.
    Lost a bunch a footage, cause my son accidentally erased it, so this is all I gotz, For now.



    But...
    Stoke factor was high this day because on a Tues, at 2 in the afternoon, there were 16 people, young, old, girls, guys, all whooping it up and just lovin this trail.
    The sound of people hootin and a hollerin and the sound bikes/tires make coming down this trail is just friggin AWESOME!!
    Every time I ride this trail I can't believe I didn't have to go across two states to experience it.
    And the fact that I had a very, very, very, small part in making it happen, makes me even more stoked each run!!
    Get out there people, Flow trail be blowin up!
    Stay high on the berms and lower that shoulder in the turns.
    Flowy, Fast, and Funn is what this is all about.
    Thank's again Jim and Dave and Dan and Kevin and all the rest of the volunteer Flow Krewe.
    GO GIT SOME FLOW ON ENDOR!!
    G-out
    Last edited by GoGoGordo; 04-24-2013 at 10:06 PM.

  103. #103
    Like a boss.
    Reputation: Piranha426's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    662
    Thing I learned on Endor yesterday:

    Don't ride it 2x in a row 24 hours after your first-ever gymnastics class because muscles you never knew you had will be sore the next day... owwww...

    Finally rode it all the way from from top to bottom and holy cow, it is so different from anything I've ever ridden before. Definitely going to take some practice but WOW!!! Fun fun fun. And I need to not be a wuss about the log ride. I know I can do it, I just hate exposure so much...

    Davey, come home so we can ride!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by jbt56
    Are you a whiny Marin liberal, or a hand-wringing Berkeley liberal?

  104. #104
    #AINTNOBODYGOTTIMEFERDAT
    Reputation: JoeBMX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    407
    Clearly the solution to this strava drama is to verify our KOM with a GoPro video of said KOM run uploaded to youtube

    I'm very glad this type of riding is infecting the Bay. More flow trail less fireroads plz.

    I like the little tombstone hit on the right into the left handed berm on the upper section of the trail. You can blast that jump sending you halfway through the berm. That is if your comfortable whipping that way.

    Also, I call BS on a 29er ever being faster than a 26er on Endor. No doubt they can be faster elsewhere, but not on here.

    Finally, a 3 way allen key should be wire tied to a tree at the start of Endor. I saw a lot of near death high postin going on.
    YouTube | #1 Rule for California mtb: If you're having fun, it's illegal.

  105. #105
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Clearly the solution to this strava drama is to verify our KOM with a GoPro video of said KOM run uploaded to youtube

    I'm very glad this type of riding is infecting the Bay. More flow trail less fireroads plz.

    I like the little tombstone hit on the right into the left handed berm on the upper section of the trail. You can blast that jump sending you halfway through the berm. That is if your comfortable whipping that way.

    Also, I call BS on a 29er ever being faster than a 26er on Endor. No doubt they can be faster elsewhere, but not on here.

    Finally, a 3 way allen key should be wire tied to a tree at the start of Endor. I saw a lot of near death high postin going on.
    Got a wire and a key? I'll pay you back. Even more if you install one how about one at the bottom so they can high post it up the climb.

    Donations gladly accepted.

    Just did my first top to bottom runs today with, Matt, Carlos and Allen. The trail is in great shape and I really enjoyed it.

    Any help is appreciated this weekend, but we may not need too many people.

    If your wiling to commit to a short amount of watering berms with a water can that will be stored at the trail it would be great. LMK

  106. #106
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Name:  Endor.jpg
Views: 693
Size:  81.9 KB

  107. #107
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    What are people doing on the two very tall, peaky singles on the upper portion of the trail? I have a vague memory from the building that they were step-downs(???) but if so the step isn't very long. I am beginning to overjump them, and have found myself twisting my bike in what may be some kind of unconcious scrub. But I don't know how to scrub, despite all the supercross I watch on TV
    Anyone have any wisdom to bestow on a novice here?

  108. #108
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)-foster_scrub.jpg

    The scrub with style jump: I have heard of this being called the skeez. The above photo was the inspiration for the "rainbow rollers"

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)-141_1010_08_o-2010_world_motocross_gp-ken_roczen_wallpaper.jpg

    I too know not the ways of skeez.

    Dylan Renn is wise in the ways

    Dylan Renn | LinkedIn

    My only advice is not to fast kick the bike out and think about the handlebar going opposite of the back wheel.

    Those rollers are not for going big but slowing down and controlling the bike as close to the ground as possible.

    I am only learning this myself. Good news is that we now have a local place to practice

  109. #109
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Hikers Only's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    527
    Things I learned today:

    -Adults think it's a good idea to wear a baseball cap as head protection!
    -people think it's a good idea to stop in the middle of the trail around a corner!

    Let's all have some common sense out there and wear helmets and set a good example!

  110. #110
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squashyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,036
    Looks like I'll be riding your wonderful trail tomorrow...woohoo.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  111. #111
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Stop by and help water. 10AM to 3pm.

    No big commitment but if you just take one run worth of time to help water for 30 minutes you will be helping a huge amount.

    See you tomorrow. Watering is the the most fun and easy form of trail building I've done so far.

  112. #112
    rho
    rho is offline
    Life is strange
    Reputation: rho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,982
    Need to get out to ride this soon! Maybe I can make it up there this Sunday... Need to get some carp-pool buddys to head up there!

  113. #113
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squashyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Stop by and help water. 10AM to 3pm.

    No big commitment but if you just take one run worth of time to help water for 30 minutes you will be helping a huge amount.

    See you tomorrow. Watering is the the most fun and easy form of trail building I've done so far.
    I think ur talking to me. I am under super tight time line other wise I'd totally help out. If it's any consolation, if you ever head out South and ride demo you see my hard work on most every turn. word
    I'm not sure how this works.

  114. #114
    Trail Gnome
    Reputation: Dark Meat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,984
    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I think ur talking to me. I am under super tight time line other wise I'd totally help out. If it's any consolation, if you ever head out South and ride demo you see my hard work on most every turn. word
    Squashyo has a get out of jail free card Davey; let him be

  115. #115
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    What are people doing on the two very tall, peaky singles on the upper portion of the trail? I have a vague memory from the building that they were step-downs(???) but if so the step isn't very long. I am beginning to overjump them, and have found myself twisting my bike in what may be some kind of unconcious scrub. But I don't know how to scrub, despite all the supercross I watch on TV
    Anyone have any wisdom to bestow on a novice here?
    If its the ones I'm thinking of, to me, those are like dirt jumps "kinda" as in you jump up and then push the bike down hard to get it to fall back down and catch the backside. If you just huck off of em you will overjump and land to flat or even worse on the next incline. You have to learn to rotate the bike in the air to point back down, dirt jump style, and catch the backside. Its not super easy but you have to have control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Stop by and help water. 10AM to 3pm.

    No big commitment but if you just take one run worth of time to help water for 30 minutes you will be helping a huge amount.

    See you tomorrow. Watering is the the most fun and easy form of trail building I've done so far.
    Will it be ridable from those times? Can we come up hit a lap, water a bit, tamp it down a bit, let it soack, hit another lap, etc?

  116. #116
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    If its the ones I'm thinking of, to me, those are like dirt jumps "kinda" as in you jump up and then push the bike down hard to get it to fall back down and catch the backside. If you just huck off of em you will overjump and land to flat or even worse on the next incline. You have to learn to rotate the bike in the air to point back down, dirt jump style, and catch the backside. Its not super easy but you have to have control.


    Will it be ridable from those times? Can we come up hit a lap, water a bit, tamp it down a bit, let it soack, hit another lap, etc?
    No closure planned for Saturday. I really need help with watering. If everyone did what you suggested yesterday we could have watered the trail in an hour. So yes please help me water. Once you learn to water properly without overwatering you can just do it on your own.

    Sunday maybe small closure but if you help water we may not need to close it at all.

  117. #117
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Okay I'm headed over.

  118. #118
    mtbr member
    Reputation: squashyo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    5,036
    Holy crap that was good! You actually built a trail that makes me want to ride somewhere other than Demo and UC. I couldn't find a good enough slow clap video but I am the guy starting the slow clap, you awesome trail builders. (Surrounding trails were pretty fricken awesome too by the by). So well done and congrats on actually making a destination worthy trail in your back yard.

    Thaanks again Slide mon and crew for the great ride today too...had a BLAST!!!
    I'm not sure how this works.

  119. #119
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    I think ur talking to me. I am under super tight time line other wise I'd totally help out. If it's any consolation, if you ever head out South and ride demo you see my hard work on most every turn. word
    Nope. Trying to drum up help. I may try and strong arm you to show me around "out South." Former banana slug, very keen on "out South."

  120. #120
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by uncle mama View Post
    Squashyo has a get out of jail free card Davey; let him be
    Wilco, sir. No heckle intended. Love to meet you guys in real time, some time.

  121. #121
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    5 hose bibs installed. Thousands (?) of feet of water line placed by Jim and volunteers and plumbed entirely by Jim.

    5 backpack sprayers purchased and put in operation today.

    The trail is running as good as it has since I've been home.

    HIGHLY recommend getting out here Sunday. It is all time.

    Just buy a pass - help water if you like.

    Obi Wan - riders when asked to help water the trail are easily start

  122. #122
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    All the ricky racers coming out to put in hot laps need to take a break and help water the track. If everyones gonna wanna ride it all summer its gonna need constant watering. And with the hose bibs installed all over the place and spayers at each station there is absolutely no reason to not at least hit one or two spots every visit.

  123. #123
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Oh and holy crap are my legs fried from yesterday. Im gonna change the name of the flow trail to the leg pump trail

  124. #124
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    All the ricky racers coming out to put in hot laps need to take a break and help water the track. If everyones gonna wanna ride it all summer its gonna need constant watering. And with the hose bibs installed all over the place and spayers at each station there is absolutely no reason to not at least hit one or two spots every visit.
    Thanks for your help yesterday. Keep those crib walls watered

  125. #125
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Haha, had a blast! Now I'm on the search for a Tommy Bahama shirt

  126. #126
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    95

    Flow trail or Pump track??

    Did 2 laps yesterday and it sure made me feel like a "Kid" again. Major Kudos to all who put it together!! The skill section was fun too (tame but a confidence builder).

  127. #127
    mtbr member
    Reputation: somanygoodbikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    493
    Saw more people at Tamarancho today than at the previous dozen or so visits put together.

    Endor is a heck of draw.

  128. #128
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)-imageuploadedbytapatalk1367203028.267675.jpg

  129. #129
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by somanygoodbikes View Post
    Saw more people at Tamarancho today than at the previous dozen or so visits put together.

    Endor is a heck of draw.
    I counted one hundred people in under 30 minutes. Then went back to watering the trail...

  130. #130
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I counted one hundred people in under 30 minutes. Then went back to watering the trail...
    Whoa - that's a lot of traffic! - hopefully a lot of these peeps were helping w/ the work as well today? - I was out helping on Sat. and there seemed to be a fair # of people pitching in but still only maybe 5% or so - if you are one of those people who just rides and never helps w/ the work - just step up, do a bit of work while your resting your legs b/t laps, and you'll enjoy the ride even more!

    I'm speculating here, but I think after soliciting for help and getting such a good response thus far, Davey doesn't want to seem like he's pushing people or trying to be boss (which speaks to his character considering how much work he's put in), but I think we can all agree that this amazing trail will only stay this amazing if a lot of us pitch in and continue to help - not a ton of work per person but the result is practically unlimited hero dirt all year round! - well worth the effort!

  131. #131
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    Whoa - that's a lot of traffic! - hopefully a lot of these peeps were helping w/ the work as well today? - I was out helping on Sat. and there seemed to be a fair # of people pitching in but still only maybe 5% or so - if you are one of those people who just rides and never helps w/ the work - just step up, do a bit of work while your resting your legs b/t laps, and you'll enjoy the ride even more!

    I'm speculating here, but I think after soliciting for help and getting such a good response thus far, Davey doesn't want to seem like he's pushing people or trying to be boss (which speaks to his character considering how much work he's put in), but I think we can all agree that this amazing trail will only stay this amazing if a lot of us pitch in and continue to help - not a ton of work per person but the result is practically unlimited hero dirt all year round! - well worth the effort!
    This is a 100% positive thread. I think that is what we needed.

    I can't say what I want because of it but I can send a clear message:

    At the current level of use and participation in upkeep the trail will be unridable between 3 and 10 days after I leave town for work May 10.

  132. #132
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    This is a 100% positive thread. I think that is what we needed.

    I can't say what I want because of it but I can send a clear message:

    At the current level of use and participation in upkeep the trail will be unridable between 3 and 10 days after I leave town for work May 10.
    With that in mind and looking at the dry, scorching forecast for the next week, here's a thought:

    I was watering for a while and earned my official "Trail Watering Certification" merit badge (5 seconds of instruction from Davey: "Spray water on dirt, just not too much") but can somebody more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself chime in with some general instruction about how to keep things maintained in terms of watering - how to use / not use the sprayers, where the key spots are (I know the dry ones!, etc.) as well as any other important info. so that we can keep this thing in tip-top.

    There may be some who really want to dive-in and help but don't know where to start (they weren't lucky enough to attend the extensive trail-watering course). Maybe this is overkill, but maybe a demonstration trail-watering video?

    This info. could be cross-posted on FB - maybe it needs it's own thread here?

  133. #133
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    With that in mind and looking at the dry, scorching forecast for the next week, here's a thought:

    I was watering for a while and earned my official "Trail Watering Certification" merit badge (5 seconds of instruction from Davey: "Spray water on dirt, just not too much") but can somebody more knowledgeable, experienced, and articulate than myself chime in with some general instruction about how to keep things maintained in terms of watering - how to use / not use the sprayers, where the key spots are (I know the dry ones!, etc.) as well as any other important info. so that we can keep this thing in tip-top.

    There may be some who really want to dive-in and help but don't know where to start (they weren't lucky enough to attend the extensive trail-watering course). Maybe this is overkill, but maybe a demonstration trail-watering video?

    This info. could be cross-posted on FB or maybe it needs it's own thread?
    The Kung Fu part about this is when you can write that instructional thread, you will be at least 2X as fast.

    I could teach so many of the riders today, for free to be the fastest they have ever been but they won't even stop to say hello or thanks.

  134. #134
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    88
    Rode it today, 3 times. My first run down I stopped and watered the bottom. Took about 20-30 minutes, used about 10 gallons in the sprayer. Then I rode my next lap, personal best. Then I rode it one more lap, tired, stoked and managed to keep my speed up. Seems like the few minutes of watering was the least I could do.

    Thanks for the work, fellas!

  135. #135
    mtbr member
    Reputation: skyno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,903
    Quote Originally Posted by Chet Bango View Post
    Rode it today, 3 times. My first run down I stopped and watered the bottom. Took about 20-30 minutes, used about 10 gallons in the sprayer. Then I rode my next lap, personal best. Then I rode it one more lap, tired, stoked and managed to keep my speed up. Seems like the few minutes of watering was the least I could do.

    Thanks for the work, fellas!
    Awesome! 10 gals is a lot of H2O for 1 person - it is going to be hot & sunny this week so the berms will just soak it in! Good stuff

  136. #136
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449

    Pump track

    Since this is the 100% Positive Flow Trail Thread, you can't read this as a complaint. It's a heartfelt suggestion.

    The area the from which Tamarancho draws riders (however big you want to make the circle) really needs a pump track.

    1. To foster important skills
    2. To serve the youths who can't easily get deep into the woods because they aren't MTBers
    3. To boost sales of QR seat post clamps in the local community -- get that saddle down, XC guy!

    I think it's a little like Aptos: the presence of Post Office doesn't make Epicenter pump track superfluous, it makes it a stepping stone. There are a number of ways in which this analogy isn't very good, but never mind that. What bike shop or other entity has a little piece of land, now that dozens of volunteers are amped up and have been trained to work dirt?

  137. #137
    mtbr member
    Reputation: somanygoodbikes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    493
    Isn't a pump track part of the nearby Novato bike park plan?

  138. #138
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449
    Quote Originally Posted by somanygoodbikes View Post
    Isn't a pump track part of the nearby Novato bike park plan?
    Maybe so, but I feel like waiting for some organizers and some public servants to raise a zillion dollars and then zomit forth a bike park at an unknown future date is contrary to the spirit we have going here. That's why I posted in the flow trail thread. No offense to the Stafford Lake effort. I am stoked on that. I want a year-round pro dual slalom facility as much as anybody and more than most. But to get a pump track should be a much, much simpler grassroots effort.

  139. #139
    ~~~
    Reputation: tburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,036
    Quote Originally Posted by Chet Bango View Post
    Rode it today, 3 times. My first run down I stopped and watered the bottom. Took about 20-30 minutes, used about 10 gallons in the sprayer. Then I rode my next lap, personal best. Then I rode it one more lap, tired, stoked and managed to keep my speed up. Seems like the few minutes of watering was the least I could do.

    Thanks for the work, fellas!
    Is there a sprayer stashed somewhere that anyone can use? And where's the water source? Not the natural springs all the way past the bottom of the trail, I hope.

  140. #140
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Snfoilhat View Post
    Maybe so, but I feel like waiting for some organizers and some public servants to raise a zillion dollars and then zomit forth a bike park at an unknown future date is contrary to the spirit we have going here. That's why I posted in the flow trail thread. No offense to the Stafford Lake effort. I am stoked on that. I want a year-round pro dual slalom facility as much as anybody and more than most. But to get a pump track should be a much, much simpler grassroots effort.
    Youd think huh?
    But......
    Noooooooo
    Daveys next project???
    Im in!
    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)-imageuploadedbytapatalk1367379701.543649.jpg

  141. #141
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    Quote Originally Posted by tburger View Post
    Is there a sprayer stashed somewhere that anyone can use? And where's the water source? Not the natural springs all the way past the bottom of the trail, I hope.
    I will write up a tutorial soon. There is a hose bib near the trail right next to the "roundabout" part of the log ride area. Isn't too hard to find. There are 3 watering cans there and they should be full. 3 berms nearby. 1 can per berm. Fill the cans back up. Ride all you like. Should take all of 10 minutes.

    Sandor and I finished building a sprinkler system with 4 sprayers that cover five berms around 7PM. We didn't get home until 8 or so. But this cuts the amount of work in 1/2.

    Working on a solution for the trail to only need watering for the top part.

  142. #142
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996
    New tutorial on how to water and locations of water stations here:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/california-no...l#post10361876

    With everyone's help and the addition of 4 sprinkler heads and a hose we are getting on top of the situation. I am still watering 8 hours a day but I am also riding a little too

  143. #143
    I'm really diggin it!
    Reputation: Davey Simon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    2,996

    Things I learned at the Flow Trail today (the 100% positive Flow Trail thread!)


  144. #144
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
    Reputation: GoGoGordo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,912
    Happy Friday Boys ans Gurls!
    Last edited by GoGoGordo; 05-03-2013 at 09:30 AM.

  145. #145
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Yody's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,183
    Boo I didn't make the cut, lol. Perfect song tho!

  146. #146
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Snfoilhat's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    449

    Have to pedal furiously to get up Mount Doom? Try this.

    After passing the skills area, there are a left at the hose bib , a right, another left and then a little twist through some trees to step-down step -down G-out, and up the face of Mount Doom. These steps are among the easiest places to catch a little air by floating off of them. But if you can't quite keep enough speed to roll up and over Mount Doom, try pumping the two steps really aggressively, making sure to get no air. You can even pump the G-out, then get really light and let the bike rise up w/ you toward the peak. Do this well and you will be able to hop right over the top and pump the backside, setting you up for the next fast section. Good luck.

Similar Threads

  1. Tamarancho flow trail poachers. The flow trail is closed!
    By Davey Simon in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 02-22-2013, 12:03 AM
  2. Trail Work at Tamarancho- Help Build First FLOW Trail
    By d4er in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-14-2013, 01:11 PM
  3. Flow trail school
    By cjohnson in forum Minnesota, Wisconsin
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-18-2012, 04:14 AM
  4. Need some flow...trail recommendations?
    By garrett_xc in forum Washington
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-09-2012, 09:02 PM
  5. Lessons Learned on my trail ride today
    By MadMacMan in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-26-2011, 06:56 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.