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  1. #1
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    Tamarancho Update on New Downhill Trail

    Please Donate for Permits for New Downhill Trail
    From Michael Dybeck,
    Administrator, Marin Boy Scouts

    I wanted to take this opportunity to give you a further update on the Caballo Rojo Trail project at Camp Tamarancho.

    As you know, Caballo Rojo is a new planned downhill-only flow trail that riders will use to exit the camp. The 1 mile (approximate distance) trail will connect Goldman Trail to lower Iron Springs Road. When this trail is open, Alchemist Trail will become a one-way, uphill-only trail, and downhill bicyclists will be on Iron Springs for a much shorter distance.

    This new trail will not only add a new fun section of trail but will also be important to improve the safety of riders and vehicles on Iron Springs. It will also reduce bike traffic on Alchemist, which is the most heavily used trail at the camp.

    While over half completed, construction on the new trail has been on hold for over a year as we deal with extensive environmental review by county, state, and federal agencies of this new trail as well as a review of the overall Tamarancho loop, including already-constructed trails. We do believe we will be able to reactivate trail construction in the mid-2017, contingent on permitting, the environmental review process, and, of course, funding.

    It is important to note that while Tamarancho has always been recognized for environmentally conscious trail-building practices, for the long-term protection of our property use, governmental agencies are recommending third party review through CEQA. This comprehensive review of our trail system comes at a high cost, which has eclipsed our original construction estimates and the estimates that we originally communicated during the course of the last eighteen months with our FOT members. It is now believed the total cost for the project--including comprehensive environmental review--will cost the Marin Council over $200,000. Over $125,000 has already been spent on this permitting process to date.

    We are turning to you--our friends and supporters--to seek donations to help underwrite these costs. All donations directed to support the trails will be restricted to that purpose only, and, of course, these donations are tax deductible. In addition, we have received a significant promise of support from a local trust that would like to match donations from Friends of Tamarancho riders and Camp Tamarancho supporters to help maximize every gift no matter the amount.

    To make a donation, click this link.
    http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...196894298.html


    You can save us the credit card fees and pay with a check by downloading a donation form to send in with your check.

  2. #2
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    Done and done!
    I just bought a new GOLD pass and added a little extra $$
    :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by d4er View Post
    Please Donate for Permits for New Downhill Trail

    To make a donation, click this link.
    http://archive.constantcontact.com/f...196894298.html


    You can save us the credit card fees and pay with a check by downloading a donation form to send in with your check.
    Any chance for a paypal connected email address that could be "friends and family" donated to? I'm not printing out a form to send a check but cc % suck. IIRC paypal NPOs still have service charges for standard not "friends and family" payments/donations but it would probably be good to get on at least one of the online payment systems.
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

  4. #4
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    Just donated and thought I should give this thread a bump
    ٩(●̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃-̃)۶ ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃̃)۶ ٩(̯)۶

  5. #5
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    bought my new pass and added some extra love

  6. #6
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    Quick question, whats the difference between an Individual pass and a Individual gold pass, ill be heading up that way a bunch in 2017?

  7. #7
    AKD
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    Gold pass is good for two years at a slight ($5) discount.

  8. #8
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    That cost is way too high, I will not be donating any money. This entire project is a missed opportunity to build a lot more miles of trail at the same cost, in other parts of the park. I will not judge how others spend their money, so it's not personal. It seems to me, that the trail is an extremely bad value, and attempts to fix a problem that does not exhist, on Iron Springs Rd. Additionally, losing the Downhill direction on Alchemist is disappointing. I have volunteered 3 days to this trail already, driving from Oakland, and I will volunteer more time, IF, this gets green lighted again. I have bought a Tamarancho Pass the last 10 years or so, and will continue to do so. The trail will be a GREAT addition, just too much red tape and money. I hope more people donate to this, sadly, I will only donate time.

  9. #9
    AKD
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    I'm sure Davey can chime in with the full details, but in short, any trail expansion would likely have led to the expensive environmental review and permitting process. Much has changed in the world of "environmental protection" since Tamo was originally built.

    We bikers may not see the problem on Iron Springs road, but I imagine there are a few local residents (of the 50 or so people who live on that stretch of road) who are tired of having bikes buzz by their driveways all day, every day. If the new downhill trail cuts out a few of those folks, then all the better for all involved. In a way, Tamarancho is a victim of its own success, and this is a way to mitigate one of the chief issues resulting from its popularity. I'm not super bummed about losing Alchemist as a downhill, as Porcupine is a good alternative.

    I agree that it would be fun to have more than a loop option at Tamo, but I'm not sure where those trails go. I imagine the boy scouts prefer bikes on the perimeter.

  10. #10
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    Kind of sad to see hooie's rhetoric regarding the C.R. trail. It is understandable however. Basically we are out of area's to put in any more significant trails. This was one of the last remaining areas where we could build and not interfere with the Scouting activity on the property. The primary function for Tamarancho is Scouting, something that will hopefully never change. Also keep in mind that 1/2 of the trail or more is on another property, who was generous enough to allow an easement for the cycling community. Since we did not cross any jurisdictional water crossings, the action from the County and the RWQCB comes at a surprise. However, I have always suspected that these entities are guided by the various NIMBY and anti bike organizations. Which is obvious now, judging by their actions against the Tamarancho volunteers.

    It is a lot of money to get the environmental review done and it should not be required. The trail was built to address a safety issue. People going down Iron Springs road too fast. Also Tamarancho has become increasingly crowded over the years. So we were attempting to split the traffic entering and leaving the camp. Crowding at Tamarancho isn't the fault of anyone but public land managers. These land managers preside over 350 miles of narrow trail that cyclists find engaging but only allow access to less than 30 miles.

    Since the majority of cyclists are law abiding, we are all being squeezed into Tamarancho. Which other than China Camp offers the only continuous single track loop that is bike legal in Marin County. Creating one way options and splitting up the crowd is a necessary evil at least in my opinion. Until of course cyclists get access to a meaningful number of public narrow trails in Marin. When that will happen is anyone's guess. My guess is never. It is why I am now going to work for an airline in an attempt to move my family to a community with meaningful trail access for off road cycling before my son is old enough to enjoy off road cycling. At this point, Marin is a lost cause and we will likely see off road cycling take even greater losses to social trail access in the near future. This will create an even worse situation for crowding and I do not see a solution.

    Blaming the operators of the Tamarancho loop for the public land managers bias against the cycling community is a mistake. I know hoolie and he is a great guy so I'm guessing he is just fed up with the situation in Marin and Tamarancho falls into that category. Although we are volunteers doing everything possible to make the bad situation for cycling better in Marin County. As opposed to all other land managers in Marin County, who seem to work tirelessly to make life miserable for off road cyclists.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKD View Post
    I'm sure Davey can chime in with the full details, but in short, any trail expansion would likely have led to the expensive environmental review and permitting process. Much has changed in the world of "environmental protection" since Tamo was originally built.

    We bikers may not see the problem on Iron Springs road, but I imagine there are a few local residents (of the 50 or so people who live on that stretch of road) who are tired of having bikes buzz by their driveways all day, every day. If the new downhill trail cuts out a few of those folks, then all the better for all involved. In a way, Tamarancho is a victim of its own success, and this is a way to mitigate one of the chief issues resulting from its popularity. I'm not super bummed about losing Alchemist as a downhill, as Porcupine is a good alternative.

    I agree that it would be fun to have more than a loop option at Tamo, but I'm not sure where those trails go. I imagine the boy scouts prefer bikes on the perimeter.
    The new trail comes out at the last residence (i.e. furthest up Iron Springs) so it does not affect dh cycling traffic for residences at all. If anything it will reduce climbing riders from getting blind corner buzzing by our own kind finishing their ride.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  12. #12
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    Thanks, Davey Simon. Yeah it's a shame I don't make more money. If I were making $100,000 year, I WOULD grudgingly throw down a few clams. If I were at the $350,000 level, yeah, I would throw down more just to get it done. At my income level, I have to be selective, and this trail is a bad deal. But as you point out, it's the only deal. As stated before, I will show up to shovel, it's going to be great. I just spent 3 days riding in Bootleg Canyon Nevada, and Hurricane Utah. Eye opening to see how many trails get built, fast, economically feasible, and the community loves it that Mt Bikers come to visit, and spend money in their small town.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    The new trail comes out at the last residence (i.e. furthest up Iron Springs) so it does not affect dh cycling traffic for residences at all. If anything it will reduce climbing riders from getting blind corner buzzing by our own kind finishing their ride.
    Thats where the visible exit was/is, and the trail was getting pretty well built until that point, but the plan was to continue another 2 or 3 turns down from there (1/2 mile or so? Know the trail was maybe another quarter mile built past that point). whether or not that's still the plan not 100% sure - if it ever gets past the review stage) that is.

    Also not sure if you're aware but there are in fact people that live beyond where alchemist starts. The road keeps going up and there's a few residences further up before the camp entrance.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo233 View Post
    Thats where the visible exit was/is, and the trail was getting pretty well built until that point, but the plan was to continue another 2 or 3 turns down from there (1/2 mile or so? Know the trail was maybe another quarter mile built past that point). whether or not that's still the plan not 100% sure (if it ever gets past the review stage).
    It's still the plan. It will eventually happen. Just glacially.


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  15. #15
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    Props to Davey for doing what he does. Super commitment in the face of many obstacles. Gonna buy a pass shortly and get my ass out there when the rain lets up.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by evo233 View Post
    Also not sure if you're aware but there are in fact people that live beyond where alchemist starts. The road keeps going up and there's a few residences further up before the camp entrance.
    I wasn't aware of residences up from Alchemist as I figured we were suppose to go in/out from the main trailhead and not venture up into the camp grounds and I've yet to encounter riders coming down from up there during my many rides there over the years so there couldn't be too much inconvience for the homeowners up there from bike traffic.
    Not discounting the nature of the new trail I think it's awesome.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Props to Davey for doing what he does. Super commitment in the face of many obstacles. Gonna buy a pass shortly and get my ass out there when the rain lets up.
    I'm just the messenger. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Jim Jacobsen and Danny the OP of this thread.


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    I'm just the messenger. We all owe a debt of gratitude to Jim Jacobsen and Danny the OP of this thread.


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    This project could have died months ago. Great work gents.
    I don't rattle.

  19. #19
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    So am I to understand that Alhemist will become designated up hill only? Cause that will be a total bummer as I was gonna continue using it as I see CR a wasted opportunity. Pretty much everyone I know will not use CR and will continue to use Alchemist as it's a far superior trail to CR. When I heard there was to be a new DH specific trail the stoke was high, in hopes of a sick hand built natural trail using natural features like the trail it is was replacing. After seeing it, the stoke was not so high

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    This project could have died months ago. Great work gents.
    Cheers Mike! Merry Christmas!

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    This 100%


    Quote Originally Posted by Hikers Only View Post
    So am I to understand that Alhemist will become designated up hill only? Cause that will be a total bummer as I was gonna continue using it as I see CR a wasted opportunity. Pretty much everyone I know will not use CR and will continue to use Alchemist as it's a far superior trail to CR. When I heard there was to be a new DH specific trail the stoke was high, in hopes of a sick hand built natural trail using natural features like the trail it is was replacing. After seeing it, the stoke was not so high
    T275a

  22. #22
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    Well, I am STOKED for new CR trail. My above complaint just had to do with the price tag. It's awesome, and will be a ton of fun. But I compare it to Downieville, $5 a foot. This is more like $37.50 a foot. Regardless of my opinion, I want to thank everyone for getting it done.

  23. #23
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    This is the bit that concerns me:

    Quote Originally Posted by d4er View Post
    ... as we deal with extensive environmental review by county, state, and federal agencies of this new trail as well as a review of the overall Tamarancho loop, including already-constructed trails.
    Not entirely sure what that means. Has opposition to CR attracted unwanted attention to the rest of Tamarancho and being used as an excuse for a larger attack on already established singletrack in Marin?

  24. #24
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    It's always been the haters goal to shut the trails at Tamarancho down.

    It stands as an example of thousands using a resource with little impact or safety issues. And erodes the argument that cycling on narrow dirt paths is the worst thing for the environment and people since DDT.

    It will always be in the line of fire from the various cycling hate orgs: MCL, MHC, Footpeople, et al.

    Because it demonstrates what selfish, entitled and ignorant pricks they are, when they open their hateful mouths.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    Well, I am STOKED for new CR trail. My above complaint just had to do with the price tag. It's awesome, and will be a ton of fun. But I compare it to Downieville, $5 a foot. This is more like $37.50 a foot. Regardless of my opinion, I want to thank everyone for getting it done.
    I think you're confusing the cost of a raffle ticket with the actual cost of building new trail.
    ISTR the total costs for the Soquel Demo Flow Trail being much closer to (or greater than) $50 a foot.

    I'm not as immersed in this as others, but I am pretty confident that nothing is as cheap as $5/foot!

  26. #26
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    The cost of the trail up to the point we were shut down by the county was about zero.

    The cost for the environmental review is where all the money is going.


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  27. #27
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    FGiraffe , that is actually amazing, I did not know Demo Flow was that expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    i think you're confusing the cost of a raffle ticket with the actual cost of building new trail.
    Istr the total costs for the soquel demo flow trail being much closer to (or greater than) $50 a foot.

    I'm not as immersed in this as others, but i am pretty confident that nothing in marin is as cheap as $5/foot!

    fify

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    thx to all involved. I don't get down there as much as I should.

    I work as a biologist and deal with the Water Board all the time. It sux that they got their claws into the project, esp. if/since there was no direct impact to Waters of the State. They are usually the agency to "claim" jurisdiction on just about anything under the guise of protecting water quality. LAME. So much bigger fish to fry.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    That cost is way too high, I will not be donating any money. This entire project is a missed opportunity to build a lot more miles of trail at the same cost, in other parts of the park.
    The cost is because the trail is being build legally. Legal trails elsewhere would probably have similar costs (by park I assume you mean the Tamarancho private property). Legal trails on public land cost even more because they generally are not volunteer-built.

    I agree the cost is absurd. This is a good example of what certain politicians are talking about when they speak of regulation run amok, and frankly it proves that they are right, at least in part. And I say this as a liberal environmentalist who believes regulation is necessary; when it becomes senseless and overreaching then the people get angry and we see what happens, at least on the national scene. Until the regulatory scheme becomes more sensible though, we can either pay the cost or not have legal trail. I'm going to contribute money. Thanks for contributing your labor hoolie. And especial thanks to Davey, Jim J, and Danny F for keeping the flame burning on this project. Davey, I hope you don't move away!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fgiraffe View Post
    I think you're confusing the cost of a raffle ticket with the actual cost of building new trail.
    ISTR the total costs for the Soquel Demo Flow Trail being much closer to (or greater than) $50 a foot.

    I'm not as immersed in this as others, but I am pretty confident that nothing is as cheap as $5/foot!
    Hopefully Matt or Drew will chime in RE the 4 mile Demo Flow but my impression was it was around $15/foot.

    2.25 mile Emma in Pogonip (same crew as Demo) out-of-pocket +/- $6/foot. (but 3000-ish volunteer hours)

    3.4 mile JNT in Sanborn built in-house by county $12/foot. (plus some volunteer hours)

    Key here is that these are all built on public land and CEQA costs are somewhat absorbed by the land manger.

    It's so important to go the "negative declaration" or "mitigated negative declaration" routes. Once a full-blown EIR is needed then all reason flies out the window. If done by outside consulting it matters little to the consulting firms that they're looking at 1 mile of trail or 1 mile of freeway.

    I've always seen this whole apparatus as a form of white-collar welfare; our universities are turning out environmental scientists by the thousands and they all need jobs.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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    I just renewed my Tamarancho pass for 2019 and it got me wondering not trying to pour salt in old wounds here but what is the status of Caballo Rojo?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shapethings View Post
    what is the status of Caballo Rojo?
    I've been curious the last couple times I've ridden by it. A buddy I was riding with asked what it was when we rode by on Wednesday.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  34. #34
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    I last heard that the County asked for a second opinion on the Environmental Impact Report. In other words the County, encouraged by the Marin Conservation League et al knew exactly how to hurt the cycling community and demanded the studies were done again. That was the last I heard on the project.

    I'd think the only way to get an answer to your questions is to ask Jim or someone at the BSA directly. Probably Michael D.

    I've moved away from Marin for many reasons but this is one of them.

  35. #35
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    Just ride the trail...Im not renewing my Tamo pass this time around, first time in about 10 years.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Just ride the trail...Im not renewing my Tamo pass this time around, first time in about 10 years.
    What an unhelpful perspective. Go ahead and create problems for the people who spent so many hours and so much money to make this a legal trail. And I wont pay my share for Tamarancho anymore.

    If you ride a Tamarancho without a pass, you should get arrested for trespassing.

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    You're only hurting the cycling community by not buying a pass for Tamarancho. The BSA are the only land managers who are actually trying to do something for the cycling community in Marin County. They are actually spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on environmental impact studies to open CR trail.

    The trail not opening has nothing to do with the BSA, Jim, Danny or any of the other amazing volunteers that have kept the only all singletrack loop built for bikes open in Marin, at great cost to their social lives and free time.

    The trail not being opened has everything to do with the Regional Water Quality Control Board and the County of Marin. It would be entirely appropriate to direct the negativity in that direction.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Just ride the trail...Im not renewing my Tamo pass this time around, first time in about 10 years.
    Really. Hope you have a flame suit! :0

    We stopped there at the fencing for a minute and looked over really didn't see any signs of tire traffic.
    Last edited by JMac47; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:48 AM. Reason: Typo
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  39. #39
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    Davey, you were involved out there right, I assume the trail wasn't "rogue built", was something overlooked in the approval process? That agency perhaps? Or did someone find some issues to raise after the fact that put the brakes on? Just curious speaking off the record.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Davey, you were involved out there right, I assume the trail wasn't "rogue built", was something overlooked in the approval process? That agency perhaps? Or did someone find some issues to raise after the fact that put the brakes on? Just curious speaking off the record.
    The trail was absolutely not rouge built. The BSA and the neighbor at 99 Iron Springs who allowed the easement onto their property had a sit down with lawyers to work out those details.

    The Regional Water Quality Control Board is any agency that has no oversight and is often abused by various NIMBY organizations to halt large scale development projects. I think historically its unique what happened at Tamarancho: an all volunteer project which did not cross any jurisdictional water crossings nor did any excavation, was stopped by the RWQCB.

    Marin County allows excavation of 250 yards of dirt without a permit. This was certainly not done at Tamarancho for this project. It's debatable if dirt was technically excavated at all.

    We did not cross any jurisdictional water crossings.

    The RWQCB abused Federal, State and County laws to stop the all volunteer project at Tamarancho. This was likely due to direction from various NIMBY organizations such as the Marin Conservation League, Audubon or the Native Plant Society. I can't prove that of course but all of these organizations have a history of litigation and no holds barred tactics to stop off road cycling recreation in Marin County.

  41. #41
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    Thanks for info. My "rogue" comment was not ment in jest. I guess my assumption was in thinking since both properties are private that it wouldn't need as much to get approved. Did the Flow trail have as much hurdles? Seems like more dirt moved around on that trail and closer proximity to an active waterway at Broken Dam than the one in dispute now.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post

    If you ride a Tamarancho without a pass, you should get arrested for trespassing.

    Maybe Chris Lang will come out of retirement and yell at violators again

  43. #43
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    You really need to get yourself back on 650b's you're getting a bit surly buddy.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  44. #44
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    ^^^Well, the GF bought new passes...looks like I wont get arrested for riding Tamarancho

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    This is the current situation simplified :

    -There is a path forward through the county bureaucracy that will be slow and expensive.
    The funds so far have gotten the process started but the scope is huge which is unfortunate. The agencies involved have no specific bias here but they want what they want.

    -The next phase of necessary steps are being worked on to finalize CR trail top to bottom.

    -Caballo Rojo trail is closed until that process is complete, please respect the private property owner(s) wishes. The fence is there for a reason.

    - More details will be announced in the coming weeks/months but the entire community is going to need to coalesce on this mitigation to button up what is a complicated situation.

    Thanks for your patience and understanding

  46. #46
    NedwannaB
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistgripper View Post
    This is the current situation simplified :

    -There is a path forward through the county bureaucracy that will be slow and expensive.
    The funds so far have gotten the process started but the scope is huge which is unfortunate. The agencies involved have no specific bias here but they want what they want.

    -The next phase of necessary steps are being worked on to finalize CR trail top to bottom.

    -Caballo Rojo trail is closed until that process is complete, please respect the private property owner(s) wishes. The fence is there for a reason.

    - More details will be announced in the coming weeks/months but the entire community is going to need to coalesce on this mitigation to button up what is a complicated situation.

    Thanks for your patience and understanding
    Is it/has it been being ridden?
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Is it/has it been being ridden?
    People have been poaching it...

  48. #48
    NedwannaB
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    People have been poaching it...
    Got it. Just hadn't seen signs last couple times I'd riden by barricade fencing....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  49. #49
    I'm really diggin it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by twistgripper View Post
    This is the current situation simplified :

    -There is a path forward through the county bureaucracy that will be slow and expensive.
    The funds so far have gotten the process started but the scope is huge which is unfortunate. The agencies involved have no specific bias here but they want what they want.

    -The next phase of necessary steps are being worked on to finalize CR trail top to bottom.

    -Caballo Rojo trail is closed until that process is complete, please respect the private property owner(s) wishes. The fence is there for a reason.

    - More details will be announced in the coming weeks/months but the entire community is going to need to coalesce on this mitigation to button up what is a complicated situation.

    Thanks for your patience and understanding
    Sorry but who are you?

    Id say at this point the only source Id trust on an update regarding this issue is Jim J or Michael D.

    Volunteer for a trail day and ask Jim. He will likely be able to clarify and youll get a good day of trail work in. The next day is January 20 at the Endor flow trail.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfmtber View Post
    People have been poaching it...
    Heard from a guy who heard from a guy who heard from a guy, it's fun

  51. #51
    NedwannaB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Gigi View Post
    Heard from a guy who heard from a guy who heard from a guy, it's fun
    Well, I rode it a couple times prior to its official closing and is say it needed some refinement. Maybe that's the reason for its closure, even tho it had a green light initially.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  52. #52
    mtbr member
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    Tamarancho 2019-20 Passes Now Available.
    Save $5 off ANNUAL or GOLD passes, if purchased by January 15!

  53. #53
    Trail Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    Tamarancho 2019-20 Passes Now Available.
    Save $5 off ANNUAL or GOLD passes, if purchased by January 15!
    Dude...today is the 15th

  54. #54
    Trail Gnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Well, I rode it a couple times prior to its official closing and is say it needed some refinement.
    Dont let J-Flo find out...hell go crazy

  55. #55
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    Just bought my pass.

    The one time I sampled CR, a while ago, I thought it rode too much like a bmx trail. Not really built for a bigger bike.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SikeMo View Post
    Just bought my pass.
    Be like Mo and Save 5 bucks

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spindelatron View Post
    Be like Mo and Save 5 bucks
    But of course

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