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  1. #1
    jms
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs

    After No Tubes. After Epic Designs. After Volagi. Now this, just in time for Christmas from your friendly, neighborhood bike manufacturer down the road in Morgan Hill:

    Specialized Pressures Canadian Bike Shop To Change Name | Cyclingnews.com

    Somehow this seems appropriate:




    I'll never buy another Specialized product again.
    Last edited by jms; 12-09-2013 at 07:10 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low

    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    I'll never buy another Specialized product again.
    I'm already there…
    So disgusted with their antics.

    BTW, you forgot WTB and their EpicWolf tire.


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    a new low? no, the same old low

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    Boycott Boycott Boycott!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    a new low? no, the same old low
    Exactly. Epic Bags(forced to change to Revelate), the Volagi case, and now this. I'm sure there are other examples. I swore I would never spend a dime with them long ago.

    Edit - whoops...just noticed jms listed all these examples in the original post. Bottom line...same old song and dance from these bums

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    I guess Speshy really does suck d**g, just like iheart says. I hope they get smited. Smited hard.

    But I really like my new tire combo--Butcher/Purgatory (26, 2.35/2.2).

    Can I get some suggestions for a comparable setup so that I can wash my hands of Specialized? I'll take my answer off the air (you can pm me). Thanks.
    Last edited by dirtvert; 12-10-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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  7. #7
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    ok, ok, my wife's hybrid is specialized... (heading to garage for demolition)

    Wow, talk about taking it to the next crappy level, really Roubaix belongs to Spechhh...

    I would assume he is not a spec dealer lol. Big bully tactics exist in the sports equipment world just like everything else. The sad thing is that other than the few of us and a handful of like minded people nobody gives a hoot. Can't lawyer up against someone who can 20 lawyer up.

  8. #8
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    I heard Specialized offers a 10% discount at their stores to anyone who gives them info on possible trademark violations.

  9. #9
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    It would be interesting to see a list of the words that "S" has trademarked.

  10. #10
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    I hear there is a trail in Santa Cruz that's being sued by S for trademark infringement.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  11. #11
    jms
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    Mail your stuff to Specialized HQ

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    But I really like my new tire combo--Butcher/Purgatory.

    Can I get some suggestions for a comparable setup so that I can wash my hands of Specialized? I'll take my answer off the air (you can pm me). Thanks.
    Brilliant! You've inspired me Dirtvert!

    It's one thing to whine on the internet @ Specialized, it's really just so much cyber sound and fury signifying nothing............however, actually doing something carries some weight.

    I've got a Specialized Mini-Pump [I liked the performance], I'll be pulling off my bike because of this, and mailing it along with a little note to Specialized HQ in Morgan Hill,

    Anyone care to join me?

    Here's their address:

    Specialized Bicycle Components, Inc.
    15130 Concord Circle
    Morgan Hill, CA 95037
    United States of America

    Or, drop off your Specialized products @ your local Specialized dealer.
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low

    Time to update my signature!
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    Their next bike is going to be named Trademark. True story.

    Seriously though, it WOULD be interesting to see what name they've claimed under trademark protection. While I understand their need to defend the trademarks, it seems they've gone "Monsanto" on us with the levels to which they're willing to stoop. Have they trademarked the letter S yet? All city names associated with biking? Pedal? Tire? Ride? Better watch out - MTB could be next which would certainly lead to trouble for this site.
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    I'm glad that I got the group message about meeting here for the little girl's tea party.

    It's funny to me that people complain about business practices when the nature of business is to screw your competitors and hustle sales.

    I've got news, mom and pop bike shops are going down the tubes, and the internet is e-commercing its way into their place. Specialized started aggressive business when they saw this coming; don't be surprised when stuff like this happens.

    The way I see it, Specialized will be one of the only companies that will still be making revenue off of store fronts in 20 years.

  15. #15
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    Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Shop is getting great support on Facebook thanks in part to @drunkcyclist.
    https://www.facebook.com/CafeRoubaix
    Buy a shirt or jersey, then the red suck S can come after all of us with the Roubaix name on our body.

    Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix Roubaix

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    Re: Specialized Has Reached A New Low

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    I guess Speshy really does suck d**g, just like iheart says. I hope they get smited. Smited hard.

    But I really like my new tire combo--Butcher/Purgatory.

    Can I get some suggestions for a comparable setup so that I can wash my hands of Specialized? I'll take my answer off the air (you can pm me). Thanks.
    Simple, cheap, quick & easy solution...Clean sidewalls, then use a black Sharpie = same performance + no free advertising for their filthy felching founder, Sir Assholio Sinyard.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Brilliant! You've inspired me Dirtvert!

    It's one thing to whine on the internet @ Specialized, it's really just so much cyber sound and fury signifying nothing............however, actually doing something carries some weight.

    I've got a Specialized Mini-Pump [I liked the performance], I'll be pulling off my bike because of this, and mailing it along with a little note to Specialized HQ in Morgan Hill,

    Anyone care to join me?

    Here's their address:

    Specialized Bicycle Components, Inc.
    15130 Concord Circle
    Morgan Hill, CA 95037
    United States of America

    Or, drop off your Specialized products @ your local Specialized dealer.
    X-2 Bump!

  18. #18
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    Maybe the actual Rubaix race organizers could sue Specialized?

    Boycotting all things Spesh however would hurt local small businesses. I like my local shop (SVCS) and they are an honest business even though Spesh's legal department is staffed by a-holes.

    In HMB there is a teeny locally-owned coffee shop that was named McCoffee until McDonalds threatened them. They just painted over the "c" and now it's M Coffee. Their story is printed up for all to read inside the coffee shop.

    Edit: I guess Cafe Rubaix has a lot more in it than just the sign.
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  19. #19
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    Well, Specialized is right.

    Here is why:

    The veteran, as admirable as Dan Richter is, is selling a bicycle product named "Roubaix". (in the Transportation category)

    If he was only a bike shop named Cafe Roubaix, then no problem. I would totally hang out there, sip french coffee, and discuss the merits (or lack therof) of Presta valves.

    What he has done is created and marketed a product (disc wheels) named "Cafe Roubaix."

    This is against the rules. Just ask Apple inc.

    If you are "nice", then you lose your brand. You need to stop companies from using your trademarked name, just ask Parker Brothers "Monopoly".

    What the company needs to do is have "Cafe Ruobaix", the brand, as a bicycle shop, and then come up with a new name for the wheels. Just ask the sparkling wine bottlers (aka "Champagne".)

    Once you have a cafe/shop named "Cafe Roubaix", and a wheel that you sell named "Round and Black", then Specialized must leave you alone. Just ask Beretta Firearms and Chevrolet Beretta.

    Note: I am not a intellectual property lawyer, but I have paid them enough to have put my kids through law school.

  20. #20
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    ^^ Good points, but how come Fuji gets to sell tankers full of their Roubaix** bikes?

    (I think because they're big enough to sue back)



    ** I'm selling one for cheap if anyone wants to show Shesh who's boss!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ Good points, but how come Fuji gets to sell tankers full of their Roubaix** bikes?

    (I think because they're big enough to sue back)



    ** I'm selling one for cheap if anyone wants to show Shesh who's boss!
    As mentioned in other posts, Specialized and Fuji are owned by the same parent company. Hate to say it, but lay the blame on ip law - defend your trademarks or lose them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seph View Post
    As mentioned in other posts, Specialized and Fuji are owned by the same parent company. Hate to say it, but lay the blame on ip law - defend your trademarks or lose them.
    Seems like that tenant may be a false one. Here's an article written by a lawyer on the subject.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Seems like that tenant may be a false one. Here's an article written by a lawyer on the subject.

    The Explainer: Because I @#$%ing hate bullies : Red Kite Prayer
    The only thing that isn't worthless about your article is the quote in it by a Paris-Roubaix racer from 1985,

    “It’s bollocks, this race! You’re working like an animal; you don’t have time to piss; you wet your pants. You’re riding in mud like this; you’re slipping. It’s a piece of shit …”

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandSpeed View Post
    The only thing that isn't worthless about your article is the quote in it by a Paris-Roubaix racer from 1985,

    “It’s bollocks, this race! You’re working like an animal; you don’t have time to piss; you wet your pants. You’re riding in mud like this; you’re slipping. It’s a piece of shit …”
    If there is something in the article you find fault with - post up. otherwise all we have to go on is your history of felating Mike Sinyard at each and every opportunity!

    "I'm pro-specialized. I've owned 5, and think they're good bikes." - landspeed
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  25. #25
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    If there is something in the article you find fault with - post up. otherwise all we have to go on is your history of felating Mike Sinyard at each and every opportunity!

    "I'm pro-specialized. I've owned 5, and think they're good bikes." - landspeed
    And I would agree with Landspeed on part of that. They are good bikes. But there's dozens of other bike companies that make equally great bikes, without being corporate bullies.


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    I was wondering about the Fuji Roubaix too, but I don't think your statement on common ownership is correct. Specialize is 51% owned by Mike Sinyard and 49% by Merida in Taiwan. Merida is the second largest bike company in the world after Giant.

    The Fuji brand in the US is owned by Advanced Sports International, a private company which also owns the Kestral, Breezer and Terry brands. The international version of the Fuji brand seems to be majority owned by Ideal Bikes in Greece, apparently the third largest bike company.

    I suppose none of that matters too much other than Fuji(s) might have the ability to fight in court.
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  28. #28
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    I believe the Fuji incarnation of the Roubaix has existed longer than the Specialized version. Oh yeah... Specialized sucks.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    After No Tubes. After Epic Designs. After Volagi. Now this, just in time for Christmas from your friendly, neighborhood bike manufacturer down the road in Morgan Hill:

    Specialized Pressures Canadian Bike Shop To Change Name | Cyclingnews.com

    Somehow this seems appropriate:




    I'll never buy another Specialized product again.
    My one nit to pick, is this is not a "new" low. This is standard Specialized - which we all all reminded of, regularly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSH View Post
    Exactly. Epic Bags(forced to change to Revelate), the Volagi case, and now this. I'm sure there are other examples. I swore I would never spend a dime with them long ago.

    Edit - whoops...just noticed jms listed all these examples in the original post. Bottom line...same old song and dance from these bums
    it goes back much further than that. They sued Mountain Cycle for calling their cross bike "stumptown" - which was made in Portland, OR. Portland OR is known as Stumptown for historical reasons.

    They sued Stratos suspension out of existence, for far more nefarious reasons, in my opinion.

    Hell, Specializeds very first forray into mountain bikes, involved stealing ideas from Charlie Kelley and Gary Fisher.

    Mike Sinyard is the worst kind of businessman. The most unethical person in the bike biz.

    While he touts the mantra "innovate or die" , he lives by another mantra "litigate or die."
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    oh people, settle down... the trademark could have been discovered with the same google we all have...

    the roubaix trademark is being enforced because specialized owns the trademark in canada, not the US (sorry, haven't researched the pedigree here). No, they are not owned by the same parent company, again do homework, you tools and your assumptions.

    all the haters probably own a Patagonia puffy jacket, and should you want to create a t-shirt, pants or something else named after a south american mountain range, I bet you get your a$$ handed to you from some lawyers out of ventura, ca in short order

    go ahead, name a scooter, go-kart, car, truck etc. after an awesome venue named Tahoe and see how fast Chevy lawyers on you.

    specialized gets a bad name for enforcing their IP. anyone ranting on an iPad, macbook etc. should be banned for hypocrisy as they beat up the little guy far more than anyone in the bicycle industry.
    to be more specific to the industry, check out the law suit Trek did against Trek Wine in Novato. At least Specialized is protecting their IP in the same industry, not suing wine makers for making Epic wine.

    settle down you easily riled up trolls

  32. #32
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low

    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    I'll never buy another Specialized product again.
    Friends do not let friends buy Specialized.

    I admit I did like my 1994 FSR. I plead ignorance. And statute of limitations.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney View Post
    oh people, settle down... the trademark could have been discovered with the same google we all have...

    the roubaix trademark is being enforced because specialized owns the trademark in canada, not the US (sorry, haven't researched the pedigree here). No, they are not owned by the same parent company, again do homework, you tools and your assumptions.

    all the haters probably own a Patagonia puffy jacket, and should you want to create a t-shirt, pants or something else named after a south american mountain range, I bet you get your a$$ handed to you from some lawyers out of ventura, ca in short order

    go ahead, name a scooter, go-kart, car, truck etc. after an awesome venue named Tahoe and see how fast Chevy lawyers on you.

    specialized gets a bad name for enforcing their IP. anyone ranting on an iPad, macbook etc. should be banned for hypocrisy as they beat up the little guy far more than anyone in the bicycle industry.
    to be more specific to the industry, check out the law suit Trek did against Trek Wine in Novato. At least Specialized is protecting their IP in the same industry, not suing wine makers for making Epic wine.

    settle down you easily riled up trolls
    Let not forget that Specialized stole Charlie Kelley and Gary Fishers design for mountain bikes.

    The stole the inertia valve from Stratos - and renamed it "brain."

    They've sued multiple companies out of existence for names not remotely similar to anythng covered by their brand.

    And their fall back legal reasoning is questionable at best. There is no requirement to sue, when a reasonable person would find no similarity between products.

    I'm sure as a Specialized retailer, who has been forced to drink the cool aid; you're perfectly capable of being unbiased in this discussion. But you're still wrong.
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    oh, iheartbicycles you constantly regurgitate the same drivel. unfortunately most of your posts are half truths or have no additional evidence other than your all knowing posts, and if the companies are sued out of existence there must be more to those cases than the part you choose to hear

    as far as drinking the cool aid (Kool Aid ), I chose to sell specialized after dropping brands like cannondale and the like. specialized makes great product that is in demand. if they are the devil you preach, and make such inferior product, people wouldn't want it and I'd be forced to find another brand of product I can turn a profit with or go under...

    i'm a business man and have enough common sense to do trademark research, if you think all other corporate brands share the same "let's all get along" attitude you do, go ahead, create an energy drink named named toro rojo and see how long you last or as I said before name some product after a lake or mountain range and see how you fare... or a computer based product named after some fruit. best of luck troll

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney View Post
    oh, iheartbicycles you constantly regurgitate the same drivel. unfortunately most of your posts are half truths or have no additional evidence other than your all knowing posts, and if the companies are sued out of existence there must be more to those cases than the part you choose to hear

    as far as drinking the cool aid (Kool Aid ), I chose to sell specialized after dropping brands like cannondale and the like. specialized makes great product that is in demand. if they are the devil you preach, and make such inferior product, people wouldn't want it and I'd be forced to find another brand of product I can turn a profit with or go under...

    i'm a business man and have enough common sense to do trademark research, if you think all other corporate brands share the same "let's all get along" attitude you do, go ahead, create an energy drink named named toro rojo and see how long you last or as I said before name some product after a lake or mountain range and see how you fare... or a computer based product named after some fruit. best of luck troll
    I'm going to give you some free advice. Dont get into pissing matches on the internet, when you represent a business. You will only hurt your reputation.

    See Ellsworth, Chumba, Ibex, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    The stole the inertia valve from Stratos - and renamed it "brain."
    Stratos was a trainwreck of improperly speced seals, no product development, flexy forks, improperly machined crowns, and many other issues. Amongst those was the failure to protect their property, go look up the Stratos story on ridemonkey again. They didn't fail because of Specialized. They failed because they ran the company into the ground.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Stratos was a trainwreck of improperly speced seals, no product development, flexy forks, improperly machined crowns, and many other issues. Amongst those was the failure to protect their property, go look up the Stratos story on ridemonkey again. They didn't fail because of Specialized. They failed because they ran the company into the ground.
    Jayem, we've gone through this before.

    Stratos spent more than $300,000 defending their patent of the Inertia Valve. They ran out of money and went out of business.

    If they had more money to defend themselves, they still may have gone out of business.

    How many 10-person companies have an extra 1/2 million dollars lying around?

    Specialized is a purely pernicious force in the bike industry. No two ways about it.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I'm going to give you some free advice. Dont get into pissing matches on the internet, when you represent a business. You will only hurt your reputation.

    See Ellsworth, Chumba, Ibex, etc.
    No kidding!!

  39. #39
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    would never buy a special-ed - bad bikes, no soul - plus they look like something i could buy at toys r us.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I'm going to give you some free advice. Dont get into pissing matches on the internet, when you represent a business. You will only hurt your reputation.

    See Ellsworth, Chumba, Ibex, etc.
    Agreed! Guy owns a bike shop in his signature and calls us all trolls? Your "Bad mood" is gonna backfire on you GMoney. You make that G Money running a bike shop?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney View Post
    I chose to sell specialized after dropping brands like cannondale and the like. specialized makes great product that is in demand.
    One other things, Specialized is driving actually good bike shops out of business.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seph View Post
    As mentioned in other posts, Specialized and Fuji are owned by the same parent company. Hate to say it, but lay the blame on ip law - defend your trademarks or lose them.

    WRONG. Advanced Sports owns Fuji. Specialized is owned by Specialized.

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    ^^ Good points, but how come Fuji gets to sell tankers full of their Roubaix** bikes?

    (I think because they're big enough to sue back)
    Fuji owns the 'Roubaix' bike product 'name'.
    Fuji used Specialized's suspension design on the Reveal.
    Specialized threatened with a lawsuit regarding said suspension design.
    Fuji threatened with a lawsuit regarding the use of 'Roubaix'.
    Specialized backed off. Specialized still sells Roubaixs, same as Fuji, and Fuji still uses the Specialized suspension design. Reveals now have a sticker that says 'suspension designed by specialized' on the inside of the DS chainstay.

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    Nice to see Mike's pals here defending his corporate shenanigans. Nobody is without blame, but some really stink it up. I boycott the S. Unfortunately, my favorite shop is a Specialized dealer.

  44. #44
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post

    See Ellsworth, Chumba, Ibex, etc.
    Where can I see?

  46. #46
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    I fail to see how a company can trademark a word that that has been around longer than them. I understand if he was calling his wheels "specialized roubaix" or even "special roubaix" or using the same logo/font that specialized used. However, this is not the case, his wheels are called "Café Roubaix" after a historic race and I am guessing he would truly prefer not to be associated with the big S at all. If the race promoters that owned the name wanted to sue him then I get it, but Specialized should have no rights to a name that was already around and already associated with cycling before they ever thought of it.

    What is next, do they call their bicycle the "bicycle" and force all bicycle manufacturers to stop calling their bicycles "bicycles"?

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  47. #47
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    I'd buy one, I detest Mike S.



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  48. #48
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    that's cool

  49. #49
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    Poorly written/thought out campaign's get amazing results.
    They should rethink what they want to accomplish with this. Maybe look at the tips/tricks section before submitting the petition.
    http://www.change.org/guides There is no way in this petition to tell if people even were going to buy spech stuff in the first place... Even if they had siggys put in the comments what they had purchased in the past, they could still fake it.

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  50. #50
    Hi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LandSpeed View Post
    I'm glad that I got the group message about meeting here for the little girl's tea party.
    This is douchey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewtality View Post

    BTW, you forgot WTB and their EpicWolf tire.
    This was a super fast race tire - better than the Hutchinson Python, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post

    What he has done is created and marketed a product (disc wheels) named "Cafe Roubaix."
    This is interesting, and not discussed in all these mob threads.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMoney View Post
    No, they are not owned by the same parent company, again do homework, you tools and your assumptions.
    ...
    settle down you easily riled up trolls
    This post is a terrible business decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    d.

    I admit I did like my 1994 FSR.
    This was a solid bike! The MAX backbone ones were awesome when equipped properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    I'm going to give you some free advice. Dont get into pissing matches on the internet, when you represent a business. You will only hurt your reputation.

    See Ellsworth, Chumba, Ibex, etc.
    This is truth.

    This is unorganized, not very effective and pretty silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzkil View Post
    This is awesome.


    I understand protecting your trademark, IP and patents. And we don't always see both sides of the coin. That said, big companies hire voracious legal departments which seem to love going after the little guy in an overly aggressive manner. It's not unique to this industry. There are much better ways to handle trademark disputes, and situations like this don't help Specialized's brand.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by imjps View Post
    No kidding!!
    Hey, don't you have a road bike forum to antagonize?
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  52. #52
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    I hear a group of war vets are suing Jeep for using the word 'Patriot'.
    "합니다 행사에서 디비 판매 합니다 관련해" Lesleybien

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  53. #53
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    I'm still waiting for my 2014 Carve.....

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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    it goes back much further than that. They sued Mountain Cycle for calling their cross bike "stumptown" - which was made in Portland, OR. Portland OR is known as Stumptown for historical reasons.

    They sued Stratos suspension out of existence, for far more nefarious reasons, in my opinion.

    Hell, Specializeds very first forray into mountain bikes, involved stealing ideas from Tom Ritchey.

    Mike Sinyard is the worst kind of businessman. The most unethical person in the bike biz.

    While he touts the mantra "innovate or die" , he lives by another mantra "litigate or die."
    fixed
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    Rock Shox made a fork called the Roubaix twenty plus years ago. They should tell Specialized to stop making the bike industry look bad.

  56. #56
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    Iheart - just curious if you feel the same hate towards the Walmarts, Koch Bros and Coca Cola's of the world? I wish people had this passion about the companies who are ruining the country and the world.
    Let me google that for you
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  57. #57
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    I have never particularly cared for the business approach of the big S - in a low key kind of way. However this has definitely moved me much closer to the hater end of the spectrum! Definitely no more purchases of their products - none!
    Growing old is mandatory - growing up is optional

  58. #58
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    Spec could lose. The idea that Roubaix is town in France (just outside Remulac), the site of a world famous bicycle race, and they don't have the copyright on the word Cafe might work against them. When you have a staff of lawyers just sitting around they think of stuff to do to earn their money. That doesn't mean that they will succeed.
    I don't rattle.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    Iheart - just curious if you feel the same hate towards the Walmarts, Koch Bros and Coca Cola's of the world? I wish people had this passion about the companies who are ruining the country and the world.
    Let me google that for you
    I'm all for free markets and fair competition. And if one company uses it's size to steal from and crush competition via litigation, I feel this is worth calling out.

    And my views arent uncommon. Witness the support Cafe Roubaix is getting!
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    Spec could lose. The idea that Roubaix is town in France (just outside Remulac), the site of a world famous bicycle race, and they don't have the copyright on the word Cafe might work against them. When you have a staff of lawyers just sitting around they think of stuff to do to earn their money. That doesn't mean that they will succeed.
    There's two battles going on - the legal one, and one of public opinion.

    Cannondale had the good sense to drop their copyright of the word "freeride." Specialized needs to do the same.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    There's two battles going on - the legal one, and one of public opinion.

    Cannondale had the good sense to drop their copyright of the word "freeride." Specialized needs to do the same.
    I'll drink to that! Wait, Specialized hasn't copywrit the word 'drink', have they?
    "합니다 행사에서 디비 판매 합니다 관련해" Lesleybien

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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Jayem, we've gone through this before.

    Stratos spent more than $300,000 defending their patent of the Inertia Valve. They ran out of money and went out of business.

    If they had more money to defend themselves, they still may have gone out of business.

    How many 10-person companies have an extra 1/2 million dollars lying around?

    Specialized is a purely pernicious force in the bike industry. No two ways about it.
    Cool story bro.

    Smack smack smacky smackity smack smack.

    Okay, jumping to the end of the thing from the middle, I'm gonna miss [for this post] half the story, but here's what I can remember from way, 'way back:

    Mike actually came up with the concept for the lockout in the "LockShock" that became the "StrataShock" in University Engineering. He was playing around with a compression locking circuit that he tested out with the infamous Bong.

    Yep, the Bong was the first 'Shock' he actually perfected - it was part of his graduate degree project.

    No lie.

    Now, he takes the idea of the shock to some friends [guys who actually know more about business and such] and they get some local SB investors [Wright Watling - a guy I know for a completely different reason] and some other more famous names, and get some startup capital.

    But, before the thing can go forwards, the Money wants to see some decent purchase orders. Demand. Gimme's.

    So, Mike and Dave and the other guys go to Interbike. I'm thinking it's 1994.

    They run across engineers from Trek, who are having a very bad day trying to figure out how to fix the main problem with the Y-bike.

    They tell Dave and Mike "We know - it sucks - it's a yo-yo, for krissakes" and Mike and Dave say - "We can fix that" and the LockShock is born, fully grown, as the Strata Shock.

    Orders pile in and the company starts to build up and yadda yadda.

    Money becomes free **** growing on trees. They sponsor a Pro DH team with Shaums March and Mountain Cycle and some others. Leanne Hurtig takes over the management of the team [or the sponsorship management side of it] but things get fuzzy [for me] from there for awhile.

    They design coil shocks [Helix] and the Killer Fork - Superstar 6 - for which i would whore myself out to do just about anything in order to get my hands on!

    6" dual crown with compression and rebound damping adjustments, positions sensitive damping, 1 inch preload each leg, progressive double stage springs, etc etc. When the competition was Zyzzyx.

    All machined from billet. The stanchions and sliders were gun-drilled. You guys have ANY idea how hard that is? How much material is used up? Not from Tubing [that was later].

    Thing sold for around $1200. It was a work of art. I still want one just to put on the wall.

    But - it cost about $500 to make - in machine time, materials, assembly.

    I'm not getting into a manufacture cost vs. profit margin arguement - let's just say, that in order to cover design, maketing research [racing and the bike show and ads and whatnot] it should have sold for about $2000.

    Not profitable. In fact, Money-Losing. The OEM pricing was also along the same lines of zero growth. The company went broke - the investors [see Money above] walked away. In their world, a write-off on investment was actually a break-even proposition.

    Mike ended up with a free machine shop and a bunch of raw material, some good assemblers and a few machinists.

    Oh, and John Stump, who did most of the design work from then on.

    Now, Dave was the guy in charge of all major accounts. He made sure that Trek, Hotlines UK, Germany all got their products at the right time and in the right boxes.

    He made the sales, soothed sore feelings, fixed glitches. His title was Director of Sales.

    I worked for him. Domestic, Wholesale and Retail Sales. This was expanded to include Domestic Marketing, which was the entire race sponsorship program.

    After the first year, I got a new title, from Sales to Director of Domestic Sales. I don't think I got a raise, but I did get a little bit of the pie.

    It was the best year I ever had in the Bike Biz. That's when I ran the race effort and got to meet most of you guys. Thanks for all of that.

    Mike met and married Catharine.

    Business wasn't flying right - product kept changing but standards weren't being met - both Dave and I had to do a lot of dancing and jumping through flaming hoops to get what we could to the folks who wanted them.

    It was a constant battle. Somehow, Mike got Catharine to invest her own money into the business, thus bringing in a new partner. Although she was a CPA, she had very little experience with this kind of business.

    Problems arose between people. Apparently, both Dave and I were making too much money. We got downgraded from a salaried/bonus structure to commission only. However, no guarantees were in place that product would be improved or standards would be met.

    We both quit. I think it was 2001/02

    The revolving door policy began. So did the tailspins.

    Lacking any clear corporate vision or market strategy, they lost ground in every arena.

    Now, here's where things get even more murky.

    Mike made some arrangement with the Patent Holder for a particular type of Inertia Damping [I met him, but totally forget his name.]

    Do a Google on RICOR. Edelbrock uses the technology.

    However, unlike some other posts I've encounter recently, talks with RICOR did not enter into an agreement until about 2002-ish.

    The Patent was specific, however, and applied only to Motorized Vehicles - Mike was trying to work it into the bicycle side of things when I left town for the first jaunt to Mexico.

    My best guess is that he failed in due diligence with the patents that Specialized held with Fox and the loophole didn't work in his favor.

    On top of that issue, they came out with the El Jefe - a shock that they acknowledged to me at my very last Interbike as a reverse engineered Avalanche shock [with some variation in size and threading and such] but were totally out of the OEM market.

    With a tattered reputation and a new guy on the phone every other month, people just stopped buying the stuff.

    His biz that kept the lights on was mostly prototyping miscellaneous parts and churning out some proprietary helicopter bits.

    Even that wasn't enough and he moved out of the joint on Quarantina and I have no idea what he's up to today.

    Dave went on to get an MBA at Laverne University and is currently a Veep at a company that handles most of eBays online advertising. I think about 60 or more people work directly for him. He's got a nice house in Montecito.

    John Stump is a design engineer in Santa Monica, I think. Certainly way up the food chain.

    Me? Semi-retired in a foreign country.

    Thanks for listening.

    Some of the above may be wrong in their order, but to the best of my memory, that's what and how things happened.

    Ultimately, it is a classical business manoeuver to press a smaller company into failure in order to absorb it's assets.

    In this case, a paper asset.Thing about John was - he kept getting the 'scut work' to finish up things... that is 'make it work' fixes.

    I remember finding out that most of the 'look' of the Stratos line was designed by an Industrial Designer [name temporarily escapes me - but he went on to design Nokia phones and some parts of the new BMW 730 series and has his own design company now, wife's a Brazillian, etc] - all the tapers, dimples, curves - in short, all the cool appearances.

    Then, making parts fit, valves rotate, indents plink and all that stuff was up to Stumpdog. His position was Production Manager, and he was supposed to make sure that parts were made to spec, showed up on time, got assembled, and went out.

    Instead, when the lockout didn't lock out, he had to redesign it to lock out, or be adjustable or whatever. A lot of his time was spent correcting design issues.

    As a result, he'd work 16 hrs a day trying to catch up and many's the time that it just didn't work.

    I remember when we were trying to get a single crown fork out, something to compete with Marzocchi and before Fox came out with their own.

    Mike ended up spending about 4 months refining a new lockout system for A-Pro so they could make their own locking shock for the Asian and European market. They in turn marketed it as the O2 X-fusion shock.Meantime, no movement on the M3 fork except for a prototype crown and brake arch. I had a stack of orders for it, domestically, and Dave had a couple big ones from the UK and Germany sitting on his desk.

    Stump had to make up from scratch the new product line that year [S8 for instance] and, quite frankly, was out of his element. I don't blame him for anything, except for putting up with very poor treatment from Mike and Catherine for years.

    Oh, and the funny thing about the X-Fusion/A-Pro deal? The O2 performed better and more reliably than the Stratashock Pro so we lost almost all sales in Europe of one of our best performing shocks.

    Mike personally got about $50k for the design [not Onsport,] the stickers on the shock had in tiny letters 'designed by stratos' and the company lost about $150k in aftermarket sales in the first year.

    The single crown M3 never got to market, but the brake arch that Mike spent about 3 months designing in Pro-E and had prototyped by A-Pro showed up on the Fox Fork [which had the lowers cast by A-Pro, as I recall.]

    No patents were ever filed by OnSport/Mike for that fork design, so it was just washed away.

    But back to Stumpie - he could probably make anything fit anything. I'm glad he finally got a real job....Oh, and the thing about the Seals on the S8

    Two things:
    Part One - we used to have these brilliant seals that we used on the Stratashock Pro - very high quality and very expensive. We started using them on the S8 and the first few hundred worked like a charm.

    Then, before the second season started, all hell breaks loose. Leaks?

    OMFG!

    My beard went grey in one month.

    It took months before we found out what was going on. We changed production on the housings, reduced diameters, tried and tried again and again to fix the problem.

    This prevented the fork guards, btw, from ever happening. We made our own out of PVC and zip ties.

    Turns out, the Seals we'd been buying for years from one company overseas had moved the production from one country to another. From Japan to China.

    But, instead of sending the molds, they'd sent drawings. e-Mail! aaaaaaah! So the new molds were out of tolerance and the seal mfg'r didn't want to tell us.

    Part Two By the time that was finally resolved, I was no longer associated with the company. They came up with 'Tiger' seals and some other company was making them.

    But one year of bad seals is all it takes if the rest of the company is unresponsive to market concern! By ignoring it, and in many cases outright denying it, they poisoned the tiny number of bike enthusiasts that wanted to buy boutique-brand products.

    Sure, Rock Shox could have faulty Ti-Ni coating on all their stanchions and have a recall and such. They could have bad seals for a season or two and just toss the entire event on the shyt-heap. Who cares? People ***** and complain about it, swear never to use it again, yadda yadda.

    But Rock Shox's real market isn't 'Early Adopters' or 'Innovators' or the tiny 'Enthusiast' market. It's Gary Fisher/Trek and Pacific Cycles.

    But Stratos - it had a worldwide market of about 8,000 customers and each and every one of them was a vocal and savvy bike beast who not only rode all the time, but also talked to other BikeBeasts all the damn time. Certainly not BikeFred out for one of the three 'trail rides' he'll have this year.The AR-1 was a pain in the ass from the beginning. It came about by demand from OEM requests and bypassed R&D.

    In fact, it was the result of conversations to the tune of: 'Light weight and Cheaper! - from Mtn Cycle and Ellsworth etc'; and 'We can remove this and change that and it should work' from Stump and Mike.

    Then it was built.

    Notice anything missing? Like exhaustive testing? No money or time to do that - our proven coil shocks were too heavy and too expensive for a lot of OEM small mfg'rs.

    It was crap from day one. There, I said it. Crap crap crap.

    Some of that same talk went into the forks...

    Lighter weight was a huge deal. As a machine shop there was no other way to cut mass than to literally cut mass.

    Here's a horrifying bit of news - and I'm sure I'll get bitten in the butt for this some day - but there were several other machine shops locally dying for work [almost literally] and the crowns for the S7/S5 were shopped out to one of them.

    Now, Lower Crown: on the drawing was a tiny taper - most of you have seen it on Marzocchi forks - a 'notch' as it were to allow a punch or wedge to be used to remove the crown race for the headset. On the side view [elevation] drawing of the lower crown, this wedge was just a line with a size in decimal inch measurement.

    The sub-shop that made the crowns misread the drawing and used the lowest point of that notch as the upper dimension of the crown.

    In other words, the crown was about 2.5mm thinner overall than it was supposed to be.

    Hundreds of crowns.

    But...

    Stump was already dragged off and doing something else. Hell, I wasn't even doing marketing at that point [I was designing packaging and a manufacturing database from the gound up.]

    No one caught it because that notch had never been on any of the other forks.

    Out they went. Hundreds of forks. With not enough material to be properly bolted tight to the steerer.

    By the time I found out [yep, t'was me first since some local guys who bought it from local shops were the first to explode the damn things] we were phukt. Grey beard and all.

    Recall and replacement crowns made in-house deleted all profit from the entire production run.

    Oh, the stories go on....
    Brandon was sucked in after I split - I think he was there for about 6 months? I seem to recall interacting with him before he started working there full time, but I don't really remember. I do recall spending two weeks teaching someone the basics to replace me... heh. Except how to deal with Catharine...

    Dave married Setenay, who wasn't so much 'loaded' as 'brilliant' - aside from being very beautiful, she was also one of the first [if not THE first] females to graduate Oxford U with honors... [her dad does have a good sized chunk of change, but it's held in trust in Turkey and he's got another daughter to watch out for!]

    However, Dave's got things rolling pretty well as a VEEP at a Internet advertising service and is making very good use of that MBA.

    Basically, the company fell apart from the top down. The potential was squandered and I just get fed up with the 'net-stories' sometimes that I pop and start spewing the truth. I loved the SS6, had Strata Pro on four bikes, developed the Tandem FR4 program, etc because I really believed in the potential of the product. But, finally, more crap than crepes made it impossible.

    Shaums - last time I met up with the dude he was with Duncan on that mishmash frame from Santa Monica...hmmm. What was that...

    Chumba Wumba?

    Yeah, that was it.

    I seem to recall that Leann ended up working for about a year for no wages... another bizarre story. Didn't she marry Richard Storino, Pres of Campagnolo USA? I dimly remember being at her wedding.
    These are the reasons Stratos failed.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by crclark27 View Post
    This is seriously hilarious.



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  66. #66
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    B**ch. Slapped.

    Once in a while the good guys win!
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Masked Avenger View Post
    LOL. Fuji steps in and smacks down Specialized......you can't make this stuff up.

  68. #68
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    Ha you beat me to it! That's pretty elfin awesome on so many levels, that Specialized made it's own huge sh!t sandwich out this totally unnecessary situation and now has to eat it, being the best one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Da Masked Avenger View Post
    If I had a black light this place would look like a Jackson Pollock painting.

  69. #69
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    Jayem, The inventor of the inertia valve, Don Richardson of Ricor, is on record saying Stratos licensed it legally and Specialized stole it. Your super cool story from a disgruntled employee, aside.

    Don Richardson even explains how Specialized stole it, using a funky loophole of US patent law.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...ly-325237.html
    Stupid, but sometimes witty. Occasionally brilliant. Slow and fat though.

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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Masked Avenger View Post
    That is Epic!

  71. #71
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    This just in, Specialized has applied for copyright on ever word in the Webster dictionary.
    We will now have to pay royalties to speak or risk litigation.

    Still keeping my opinion of Specialized as they did not withdraw out of any moral enlightenment and instead were told to withdraw.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  72. #72
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    I'd say a Schwalbe Nobby Nic is pretty doggone close to a Purgatory up front on a 29'er.
    Quote Originally Posted by dirtvert View Post
    I guess Speshy really does suck d**g, just like iheart says. I hope they get smited. Smited hard.

    But I really like my new tire combo--Butcher/Purgatory.

    Can I get some suggestions for a comparable setup so that I can wash my hands of Specialized? I'll take my answer off the air (you can pm me). Thanks.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    Iheart - just curious if you feel the same hate towards the Walmarts, Koch Bros and Coca Cola's of the world? I wish people had this passion about the companies who are ruining the country and the world.
    Let me google that for you
    My final 2 cents on this. It's worth noting that the public outcry on sites like mtbr, facebook and twitter created the publicity and pressure needed for a good outcome.

    Without the public voicing their opinion so vociferously, there's no way this would have happened.
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  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tor-y-Foel View Post
    Definitely no more purchases of their products - none!
    C'mon. You will be back once Specialized re-valves their BRAIN shock for the 49th time.

  75. #75
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    There's a post on twitter from Cafe Roubaix saying he had a conversation with Mike Sinyard and this will all be worked out.

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    Sinyard needs to fire 3 lawyers, hire two engineers and a dude to follow him around and say "Not Cool Bro" when he lapses into douche mode.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Sinyard needs to fire 3 lawyers, hire two engineers and a dude to follow him around and say "Not Cool Bro" when he lapses into douche mode.
    Sounds like Fuji is paying a guy to follow Sinyard around and say "Not Cool Bro" when he lapses into douche mode.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Sinyard needs to fire 3 lawyers, hire two engineers and a dude to follow him around and say "Not Cool Bro" when he lapses into douche mode.
    ^^ This.

    Seriously folks, Specialized made a bonehead move, wasted some money, and hurt their reputation in the process. Why does aggressively enforcing what they think are their IP rights makes people hate Specialized? Because we like the people who they sue? This is business.

    My understanding is that Specialized is a company that also aggressively supports and tries to protect its dealers, who are entirely LBS (even though it demands a lot from them in return; it is protecting the LBS business model), and refuses to allow its dealers to be undercut through internet or greymarket sales. Many other top bike companies don't do the same (Scott, Santa Cruz, Yeti, Fuji, GT, Giant, for example). That doesn't make those other companies "evil," any more than Specialized is evil for being very aggressive competitors and protectors of their marks.

    Not that I am defending their tactics here or in other cases. They certainly look foolish on this one. (Disclosure: I confess that two of my bikes are Specialized and I think they make very good bikes).

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfloren View Post
    Why does aggressively enforcing what they think are their IP rights makes people hate Specialized?
    Because their IP is stupid, like common words, colors, and vague designs not brought to market.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jfloren View Post

    Seriously folks, Specialized made a bonehead move, wasted some money, and hurt their reputation in the process. Why does aggressively enforcing what they think are their IP rights makes people hate Specialized? Because we like the people who they sue? This is business.
    I don't think it has anything to do with the people they go after but instead what they go after the people for.

    If Dan at Cafe Roubaix was calling his wheels the Specialized Roubaix or using the same fonts (something that was obviously trying to connect his wheels to Specialized) then I think people here would be saying "yeah, he can't do that".

    Instead what happens is Specialized takes words that are commonly known in the biking industry long before Specialized was around and trying to claim rights to them.

    It would be like Specialized suing MTBR for their Off Camber forum because Specialized makes a bike called the Camber.

    If they are concerned about protecting the model names of their bikes then they need to start choosing names for them that are not already well known names, words, places in the biking industry.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  81. #81
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs

    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    It would be like Specialized suing MTBR for their Off Camber forum because Specialized makes a bike called the Camber.
    Shit. Don't give them any ideas. They'll run Francois out of business.



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  82. #82
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    Smh!
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  83. #83
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    mike sinyard flew up and apologized, and videotaped the whole thing on the cafe roubaix fb page.

    aggressive damage control.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    mike sinyard flew up and apologized, and videotaped the whole thing on the cafe roubaix fb page.

    aggressive damage control.
    Here's the link:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=429367720519294
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  85. #85
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    https://www.facebook.com/CafeRoubaix

    Check out their Facebook page. It has the apology from Mike.

  86. #86
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    Seems to me like he was trying to save face with the biking community.
    I guess we will see if he learned something or if it was just lip service in years to come.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlued View Post
    Seems to me like he was trying to save face with the biking community.
    I guess we will see if he learned something or if it was just lip service in years to come.
    I would hazard a guess that not only Spesh's global policy director...but Mike himself are saavy enough to realize that bad press hilited via social media can turn into a woolly shit storm in a matter of hours...

    basically, its now bad for the bottom line...really, really bad.
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    Yup, social media is about the only way the little guy can take on the big guy and win.
    Ten years ago, Dan would have been changing the name.
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  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    mike sinyard flew up and apologized, and videotaped the whole thing on the cafe roubaix fb page.

    aggressive damage control.
    So now Sinyard has a guy from Fuji following him around, telling him to quit being a douche, and a camera crew following that guy, and then a lawyer following them, and then a damage control publicist following all of them around with a broom and an iPhone that posts to social media.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by squareback View Post
    So now Sinyard has a guy from Fuji following him around, telling him to quit being a douche, and a camera crew following that guy, and then a lawyer following them, and then a damage control publicist following all of them around with a broom and an iPhone that posts to social media.
    We need that same crew to follow our politicians around.
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  91. #91
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    Found this on Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Shop's Facebook https://www.facebook.com/CafeRoubaix

    "Everybody,

    Mike Sinyard of Specialized came up for breakfast and to talk and apologize in person. Mike was truly sorry for the way things worked out, and wanted to resolve the issue face to face. All has been resolved.

    Thank you to the cycling world for your support!
    Cheers,
    Dan"


    Looks like that loud bang reported in Morgan Hill recently was someone's head being removed from there Ass, it was sad it was even an issue to begin with. Cool to see them get humble and do the right thing, too late for me, gonna join the boycott

  92. #92
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    This should've never been an issue in the first place. The very fact that it took Specialized so long to drop everything and apologize, coincidentally after a huge shit storm on the internet, shows that this is just way for Specialized to save face. That apology would've never happened otherwise.

    It's interesting to speculate that in absence of a social media uproar, Specialized probably would have bullied another small company into submission.

    I will actively avoid ever buying anything from Specialized again.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben_Im View Post
    This should've never been an issue in the first place. The very fact that it took Specialized so long to drop everything and apologize, coincidentally after a huge shit storm on the internet, shows that this is just way for Specialized to save face. That apology would've never happened otherwise.

    It's interesting to speculate that in absence of a social media uproar, Specialized probably would have bullied another small company into submission.

    I will actively avoid ever buying anything from Specialized again.
    The only Specialized product I currently own is a pair of spandex shorts. I have half a mind to fill them with my next constitutional and send them back.
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  94. #94
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    My new SPECIALIZED road helmet is due any day now...

    Specialized Bicycle Components

    Can't wait!
    Never pay retail my friends.
    I mean Shite, read the reviews.

  95. #95
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    I mean whats the big deal?
    I gotz me one...???

    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs-roubaix.jpg

    Awesome CX bike if I might add.

  96. #96
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    The fact that they recorded the apology is pretty lame. Damage control for sure.

    This was probably worked out legally before Mike even went up there.

  97. #97
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    my two cents which is only worth about 1.5 cents on the free market thanks to George W. Bush

    Background on me( pertaining to this): personal friends with Tom Ritchey and I have heard his side of the story on how big S "started" (not the best picture for Mike); hate big the big guy, love the little guy, own 2 Big S bikes and started MTB team that has Big S sponsorship; usually pretty conscious on how I spend my money since its the only way as an individual you can affect the world on a daily basis; believe in conscious capitalism; Safe to say I have mixed feelings.

    Thoughts:Big S screws up a lot in the court of public opinion, most recently through the legal team. But lets look at some of the pros.For the most part they are a pretty good employer, they create a great product for a reasonable price, they support the bike industry as a whole and bike "lifestyle" movement significantly, they are local, THEY DO NOT HAVE PEOPLE KILLED for profits (Coca Cola).

    They do sure make bad and unethical decisions though.
    Have they ruined lives NO (not gonna argue this, because this is subjective. if your business was relying on one idea or name to survive, you were not gonna make it anyways. And if you lose your business your life is still not ruined. )
    Have they pissed people off YES
    Have they learned a lesson MAYBE

    It seemed to me, form the video, that Mike wanted to own what had happened and realized that anything that big S does is ultimately his responsibility. BUT I think that there is probably some heads rolling in the legal department; I bet that he had know idea about this UNTIL shiz hit the fan. Then it was too late, I would be surprised if you see something like this come from Big S legal again. Regardless if he was truly sorry or if it was a PR stunt the only thing that matters is if THEY learn. We all scream for change and want the world to be a better place, so when things look like they might be changing LET IT HAPPEN AND FORGIVE. FOR F SAKE.
    As for me I am gonna rock their tires and bikes and shorts... their gloves and glasses not so much.Name:  haters-gonna-hate-thug-barbi-bike1.jpg
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  98. #98
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    hmmmmmm....
    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...in-890801.html

    could it be that the big S is at it again....or possibly a small business trying to capitalize using the social media channel?
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  99. #99
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    Pics or it never happened...WE NEED DATES TOO.
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    hmmmmmm....
    http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discu...in-890801.html

    could it be that the big S is at it again....or possibly a small business trying to capitalize using the social media channel?


    YUP! same day as the apology from sinyard, specy goes after another company. insane!

    Specialized Threatens Another Small Business: Epix Gear | riding against the grain

  101. #101
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    Volagi, Cafe Roubaix, Epix, just to name the most recent episodes. The list goes on. Spesh has a moral compass problem IMHO.
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cobb View Post
    It would be interesting to see a list of the words that "S" has trademarked.
    Scroll to bottom for the "Properties section:

    USPTO Assignments on the Web.
    edit: doh, doesn't allow direct link--suffice it to says, it's a LONG list.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRUZe View Post
    Scroll to bottom for the "Properties section:

    USPTO Assignments on the Web.
    edit: doh, doesn't allow direct link--suffice it to says, it's a LONG list.
    Wow: Rib Cage, Turbo,, Slickrock, Cruise Control, Future Shock, Black Top, Cactus Cup, Transition, Airforce, Mountain Man, Fatboy, Racers Edge, etc.

    Quite the list
    Faster is not always better, but it's always more fun

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHUM View Post
    I would hazard a guess that not only Spesh's global policy director...but Mike himself are saavy enough to realize that bad press hilited via social media can turn into a woolly shit storm in a matter of hours...

    basically, its now bad for the bottom line...really, really bad.
    Yeah, it seems this one caught fire in a way that their past frivolous lawsuit threats didn't.

    Let's make it our job to call out Specialized, Trek (or any other big mfg) when they pull these shenanigans again.

    Seems like a good public shaming actually works once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Wow: Rib Cage, Turbo,, Slickrock, Cruise Control, Future Shock, Black Top, Cactus Cup, Transition, Airforce, Mountain Man, Fatboy, Racers Edge, etc.

    Quite the list
    Turbo? They own turbo? So, a word associated with speed, commonly used, and they own that. Frucking great.

  105. #105
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    It's interesting to me how the apologists for the corporate tactics employed by Specialized haven't continued defending their "it's just good business" mantra in this thread, likely because, Specialized's "apology" refutes that argument.

    What say you now "Landspeed" and others?
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  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    It's interesting to me how the apologists for the corporate tactics employed by Specialized haven't continued defending their "it's just good business" mantra in this thread, likely because, Specialized's "apology" refutes that argument.

    What say you now "Landspeed" and others?
    For what it's worth, I didn't understand Landspeed to be an apologist; he was simply saying (in a rude way) that Specialized isn't all bad and has reasons for what it does, even if it was a bonehead move here. Nor am I an apologist -- Specialized can apologize for its own misjudgment of the issue.

    It seems that Specialized's main mistake here is a combination of being successful and apparent hubris -- coming across as arrogant bullies. A serious miscalculation. But it is hard to see it as pure evil unless you just hate all big businesses because they are successful and have to work and protect their brands to stay at the top of their game.

    If you take a step back, it is not difficult to understand how someone owning the "Roubaix" trademark for bicycles in Canada could easily get excited upon hearing that someone else was marketing "Roubaix" wheels for bikes. My general understanding (not being a Canadian lawyer) is that trademark rights can easily be lost if known infringement is ignored. Thus, for example, suppose that Cafe Roubaix keeps churning out bike wheels for a decade, then is bought by Trek or otherwise becomes a major wheelmaker using the name, diluting Specialized's rights to the name and making it seem more generic. If Specialized did nothing to enforce its mark over the years, it might lose the legal right to the mark.

    Where this backfired on them was not using perspective (this is an LBS, not a real competitor, yet) and instead taking a standard, strong IP protection approach by sending a threatening "cease and desist" letter. This is the type of strategy that lawyers who practice in the area commonly recommend as necessary to protect a brand. But it would have been much more sensible for them in this instance to send a polite letter offering (insisting on, actually) a license to the name for $1, as long as the use is limited. That would have accomplished their purpose and avoided this hoo-hah.

    Many have suggested that "Roubaix" should not be capable of being trademarked at all. (If you agree with that, then you could just as easily argue that any brew pub in Santa Rosa ought to be able to call itself "Russian River Brewing".) But that is an argument with the law, not with Specialized. It does not seem unreasonable that Specialized wants to protect against its competitors using the same name for their bikes and bike parts (except Fuji's parent company, which also has rights to the name and superior rights in the US).

    Anyhow, enough with this. Need to get some work done so I can go for a ride this afternoon.

  107. #107
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    If you b****h about the big S then drive your GM to Walmart to buy Coke, or you buy ANY corporations product, you are a major hypocrite. Just because your hobby is bikes doesn't make the bike industry morally above any other. Take your passion out of it and look at things objectively. (Something that happens less and less these days) The political culture of giving corporations power by means of capital is the problem. No industry is above it. Unregulated capitalism breeds greed no matter the product sold.
    Just my 2 cents.

    BTW - the six heirs to the Walmart fortune own more money than the bottom 42% of the population combined. Yet people complain about trademark lawsuits in other countries.
    GM took $50 billion, some say more, and the Gov. recenty sold it's share for a $10 billion loss. That's OUR money!
    And Coke, as has already been talked about here, kills workers to break unions. Just to make MORE money.
    Priorities?

  108. #108
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    ^^ What about "Think Globally, Bi**h Locally"?!

    However, I'm still going to protest topless* at Walmart/GM/Coke to cover all the bases.


    * “Never doubt that a pair of thoughtful, committed, nipples can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zkrazy View Post
    GM took $50 billion, some say more, and the Gov. recenty sold it's share for a $10 billion loss. That's OUR money!
    That's so simplistic.

    If you're concerned about "OUR money" then it seems pretty silly to be upset about the $10B loss vs. the alternative effect on "OUR money"

    "Without the bailout, the country would have lost more than 1 million jobs, and the economy could have slipped from recession into a depression, Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew said on a conference call with reporters. " U.S. exits GM stake, taxpayers lose $10.5 billion - NBC News.com

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjMountain View Post
    Found this on Cafe Roubaix Bicycle Shop's Facebook https://www.facebook.com/CafeRoubaix

    "Everybody,

    Mike Sinyard of Specialized came up for breakfast and to talk and apologize in person. Mike was truly sorry for the way things worked out, and wanted to resolve the issue face to face. All has been resolved.

    Thank you to the cycling world for your support!
    Cheers,
    Dan"


    Looks like that loud bang reported in Morgan Hill recently was someone's head being removed from there Ass, it was sad it was even an issue to begin with. Cool to see them get humble and do the right thing, too late for me, gonna join the boycott
    Actually this is what probably really happened.
    Mike Sinyard realized that this time being a the huge d!ckhead he is that Specialized was going to lose big money. In a last ditch attempt to save that money and some face he flew up to Canada with his lawyers and sat down with Dan.
    In that they negotiated a deal to allow Dan to keep the name in exchange that he accepts the apology and pretend Mike is actually a good guy after all. I hope in this exchange that Dan not only got to keep his name but held out for a chunk of cash. I mean in reality Dan had Mikes balls pinned to the wall and Dan could have very easily told him to fvck off and that he would change his name and let Mike suffer the repercussions. Now Mike would have never lost his business because Specialized does make some good products and no matter how much of a d0uche he is many people will over look that not to mention the millions of people that don't follow the cycling industry news but still buy bikes. However, Mike still would have lost millions and Dan would have made more money because of all the recognition his shop has received from this. Lets face it, many of thousands of people that never would have known he existed now do and the longer this would have dragged on the better for Dan but worse for Mike.

    Long story short, I guarantee lots more besides breakfast went on behind the scenes and we will never know about it due to a confidentiality agreement that I am sure Dan signed. I also highly doubt they are really buddies now and I doubt Dan will ever hear from Mike again. He probably won't even get a Christmas card.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by zkrazy View Post
    If you b****h about the big S then drive your GM to Walmart to buy Coke, or you buy ANY corporations product, you are a major hypocrite. Just because your hobby is bikes doesn't make the bike industry morally above any other. Take your passion out of it and look at things objectively. (Something that happens less and less these days) The political culture of giving corporations power by means of capital is the problem. No industry is above it. Unregulated capitalism breeds greed no matter the product sold.
    Just my 2 cents.

    BTW - the six heirs to the Walmart fortune own more money than the bottom 42% of the population combined. Yet people complain about trademark lawsuits in other countries.
    GM took $50 billion, some say more, and the Gov. recenty sold it's share for a $10 billion loss. That's OUR money!
    And Coke, as has already been talked about here, kills workers to break unions. Just to make MORE money.
    Priorities?
    One doesn't have anything to do with the other, but...

    F'ing wah. It was money well spent to preserve our industrial manufacturing base. Wanna know how we won WW2? We were able to convert auto manufacturing plants to build tanks, planes and such. We preserved our ability to keep building things, preserved a lot of jobs... not just GM, but all of GMs suppliers, plus preserved our tax base. Even if the gubmint lost $10B in the short term investment (which I highly doubt), we kept people working and didn't send 1 million of them to the unemployment line, where they become really expensive.

    The best part of the story is this:

    "The bailout saved or avoided the loss of $105 billion in transfer payments and the loss of personal and social insurance tax collection in 2009 and 2010, according to CAR. "

    So, we lost $10.5B in the stock, but it saved the government from paying out $105B. That sounds like a pretty dang good deal to me.

    "The auto bailout will rank as “one of the most important interventions, maybe the most important, in U.S. economic history,” Sean McAlinden, CAR’s chief economist, who led the analysis, said yesterday in a telephone interview. Without it, “the upper Midwest would still be a gaping, double-digit unemployment hole in the economy, 600,000 retirees would’ve lost their pensions.” "

    Source, Bloomberg: GM Bailout Ends as U.S. Sells Last of ?Government Motors? - Bloomberg

    This is typical lame ass argument misdirection tactic... 'well, if you think that is bad, look over here!!' and 'You're a hypocrite if you buy any corporate...' blah blah. Heck, why not argue that everybody who ever spent a dollar is hypocrite? Not that you're wrong, but that isn't the argument.
    Last edited by pimpbot; 12-14-2013 at 05:35 AM.

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    As a former employee of a GM dealership, I can confidently say that most if their parts are made outside of this country, and they build a LOT of assemblies and whole cars in Mexico and Canada. So whos jobs are they saving? And that's assuming had they not been bailed out that every worker would just go home and apply for UI. Do you really think that NOBODY in the free market would bother to buy up the companies like Delphi and AC Delco that produce parts once they went bankrupt? With millions of GM cars currently on the road its inconceivable to think that nobody would continue to produce replacement parts for them. And if the dealerships that didn't close, who have GM trained expert techs, do you really think they would just sit on their hands and close down? Or would they rather go independent, be a GM specialty shop and do used car sales. Some would at least try. So that's really job transfer, not jobs lost. I personally don't trust what any Government employee says, elected or appointed. My post was intended to be simplistic, a contrary view of everyone's that's intended to say "hey, this is minor, why don't we put our attention on the bigger issues".

    And the auto industry bailout was so successful I really have no argument. Because, you know, Detroit is doing sooooooo great right now.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by zkrazy View Post
    As a former employee of a GM dealership,
    Sweeping the floors and making sure that the coffee pots were always topped off certainly qualifies you as an expert.

    An "expert" that can successfully contradict the macroeconomic experts (with relevant industry experience and education) that disagree with your simplistic, gutter-level "analysis."

  114. #114
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs

    So this is a GM thread now?

  115. #115
    YOUREGO ISNOT YOURAMIGO
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs

    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    So this is a GM thread now?
    GM?
    Gay men?

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    GM?
    Gay men?
    Grande Muchachos.

    Close, but there is a difference.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    GM?
    Gay men?
    GMC = Gay Man's Cruiser
    Its all Shits and Giggles until somebody Giggles and Shits

  118. #118
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    ^ More like - big balls & no brains.

  119. #119

  120. #120
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    Specialized Has Reached A New Low - Roubaix Of Pigs-news.jpg

  121. #121
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    I just noticed my "rep" went up. I'm not active on this forum, so what little I contribute that is appreciated by others, I give thanks. Rather than assuming I'm a janitor from the gutter without any evidence, over a difference of opinion.
    And BTW, janitors are greatly under appreciated. From my auto shop and manufacturing experience (note - NOT an expert and didn't claim to be one!), janitors are an extremely valuable asset that contribute to other employees productivity by reducing their responsibilities, often doing jobs that other people don't want to do, or flat out won't do. I have great respect for the "janitor" at my current workplace and I always thank him for doing his crappy job with a smile. Please don't discount the efforts of the uneducated. Despite common belief, they work hard and deserve respect and a living wage. Anyone who works hard full time deserves a living wage, which isn't happening in today's capitalist economy. At least that's my "gutter" analysis, so it must be invalid. In America the opinions that aren't your own are obviously gutter trash.

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