Skyline-to-the-Sea trail opening to mtbs?- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Zignzag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,117

    Skyline-to-the-Sea trail opening to mtbs?

    Proposed mountain biking sites:
    Henry Cowell State Park, Fall Creek unit.
    Portions of Henry Cowell State Park, main branch.
    Big Basin State Park, Skyline-to-the-Sea trail.

    Front page news yesterday in the Santa Cruz Sentinel:

    http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/arc...es/01local.htm

    Mountain bikers hope new law wins new riding trails
    By ROGER SIDEMAN
    SENTINEL STAFF WRITER
    A new state policy has mountain biking enthusiasts looking to expand their turf in the county's State Parks system.
    One group of bikers is seeking access to roughly 15 miles of local trails currently off-limits to bicyclists, a pursuit that isn't likely to come easy in a county where feuds over trail use have frequently erupted as mountain biking has grown in popularity.
    A trail policy put on the books last year for the state system's 278 parks forces park administrators to be more responsive to requests for new trail access.
    "These are our parks, too," said Tom Ward, who has long felt mountain bikers have gotten short shrift and is helping local bikers as a lobbyist in Sacramento for the International Mountain Biking Association.
    Mountain bikers have been associated with aggressive trail use and environmental damage to trails.
    Ward helped establish the State Parks trail policy when he worked as a top official for the agency last year. By establishing an appeals process, Ward said, the current policy has put in place a system of checks and balances to ensure that public requests are heard by local districts.
    The Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz, an advocacy group with 163 members on its mailing list, hopes to give bikers new access in Henry Cowell Redwoods State Park Fall Creek Unit, where mountain biking is illegal, the Skyline-to-the-Sea trail, which connects Big Basin State Park's headquarters to Highway 1 and is mostly off-limits to bikes, and areas of Henry Cowell's main branch.
    Existing "multi use" trails open to a growing number of bikers are too congested and need expanding, advocates say.
    "Big Basin is a large park that will give mountain bikers a solitary experience," said Mark Davidson, a software engineer and head of Mountain Bikers Of Santa Cruz.
    From the perspective of many bikers, the sport's rise in popularity has drawn new-kid-on-the-block treatment and they have to fight for access to trails traditionally enjoyed by hikers and horseback riders.
    "Basically the situation is that mountain biking has evolved since the State Parks were acquired and, since the government is slow and resistant, it's hard to open trails," said Patty Ciesla, director of the Northern California Mountain Biking Association.
    Before the new trail policy, proposals could be sat on indefinitely by a cash-strapped parks system with more pressing priorities.
    Steve Musillami, State Parks trail manager, acknowledged the need to address trail designation.
    "There's been more concerns with local trails systems in the past five to 10 years," Musillami said.
    Proposals for expanded mountain biking have been challenged in the past, and almost certainly will face problems in the future.
    Critics don't want to be spooked or forced off trails by aggressive mountain bikers; they say the high-tech activity isn't always in keeping with the sanctity of wilderness areas.
    Aldo Giacchino, director of the Sierra Club's local chapter, said he wouldn't take a position on the Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz proposal until he sees it but said the Sierra Club is generally against adding new mountain biking trails.
    "People don't want to be surprised by fast moving objects in tight situations," he said.
    Others are concerned about trails and the erosion and damage caused by the ruts left by tires.
    Other groups also have taken issue with allowing mountain bikes, including the local chapter of the California Native Plant Society, the Rural Bonny Doon Association and several UC Santa Cruz ecology professors.
    Mountain bikers are quick to cite scientific studies suggesting equestrians cause as much, or more, trail damage than bikes. Davidson says that most mountain bikers are environmentalists, too.
    The mountain bike group is also eyeing trails at the Coast Dairies Ranch, in the "Gray Whale" area adjacent to Wilder Ranch State Park and the off-road footpaths above UCSC.
    Contact Roger Sideman at [email protected].
    Proposed mountain biking sites
    Henry Cowell State Park, Fall Creek unit.
    Portions of Henry Cowell State Park, main branch.
    Big Basin State Park, Skyline-to-the-Sea trail.

  2. #2
    Fireball in the Night
    Reputation: Rex_Skidmore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,624
    Hiked it once from Castle Rock.
    I'd love to be able to bike it now.
    This has been ongoing for yearrrrs.
    Thanks for the update, Zignzag.
    everyone drives a Used Car

  3. #3
    EEP-OPP-ORK-AH-AH
    Reputation: feetsnofail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    520

    incredible!

    This would be the best xmas present ever to MTB'ers! S2C (skyline to the sea) is an incredible ride. though mostly illegal now, I recall at one time it was (in the long long ago) accessible to all users - even remember some MX back there ...

    the trail itself is really no great shakes, there are much better maintained trails for MTBs - but to be able to get to the ocean from skyline makes it an instant epic.

    we should all do whatever necessary to help this pass (though it seems unlikely). a few bucks to IMBA or MBOSC will help, and it's always a good idea to attend local advocacy meetings and community committee meetings - if for no other reason than to hear the unbelievable rants issued by 'local land owners' and 'communiy leaders'. You may actually be surprised to hear just how much the 'Vande-ites' hate us - and these folks are at every meeting!

  4. #4
    bikerbert
    Reputation: bikerbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,082
    Try the entrance from Waddell Beach on HWY. Great 5.5 mile ride, and short hike to a 50-60' waterfall. You can lock your bike up, and off you go! One of my wife's favorite places for us to ride.

  5. #5
    Duck Fonald
    Reputation: Finch Platte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    17,376

    Thanks for the news!

    Also wanted to say "thanks" for selling me the Bonty bars at the MBTB. I'm putting the 28" of width goodness to good use on my On-One SS

    fp
    Attached Images Attached Images
    “The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”

    George Orwell

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    102
    12 years later, still "no bikes" on what would be one of the greatest singletracks in the area. Rare to see people on those 30+ miles. If hikers ain't hiking, what would hurt to let the bikers ride?
    Never limited by common sense...:nono:

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RBoardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Also wanted to say "thanks" for selling me the Bonty bars at the MBTB. I'm putting the 28" of width goodness to good use on my On-One SS

    fp
    Back when 710mm bars were wide?

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: gonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    443

    "These are our parks, too,"

    Quote Originally Posted by zecamara View Post
    12 years later, still "no bikes" on what would be one of the greatest singletracks in the area. Rare to see people on those 30+ miles. If hikers ain't hiking, what would hurt to let the bikers ride?
    "These are our parks, too,"

    Hope it won't happen, it has been shown that mountain bikers do NOT respect the trails. In aptos & santa cruz the new DH crowds are creating tons of down hill short cuts.
    The current trails where designed in such a way that they need very little up-keep. Now we have tons of DH short cuts all over the place - Nice Job Mountain bikers....

    If skyline is opened, we would have hundreds of shuttle services and tons of new illegal trails....... I am a mountain biker, but we can not trust the mtn bike at large.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    102
    I was not talking about "those" mountain bikers you refer to, as they need none of your sympathy nor authorization - they are likely riding it already.

    I was just commenting on how nice was that dream, 12 years later, and how little sense it makes to me, keeping trails to hikers only, and then hikers just don't show.

    Maybe something like one day a week? Tuesdays 5AM to 9PM, hikers resupply at REI, bikers enjoy some beautiful singletrack.

    I know. Let's let this thread hibernate for another 12 years.
    Never limited by common sense...:nono:

  10. #10
    Over it
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    3,798
    It may have happened somewhere, but I'm not aware of any "hiking only" trail in a state park being changed to multi-use. It seems to be a bureaucratic cul-de-sac. And, evidently, we can't be trusted! Of course, those darned hikers can't be trusted either. I've spent a bunch of trailwork days fixing their shortcuts.
    Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice--pull down your pants and slide on the ice.

  11. #11
    Axe
    Axe is offline
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: Axe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,429
    Quote Originally Posted by feetsnofail View Post
    This would be the best xmas present ever to MTB'ers! S2C (skyline to the sea) is an incredible ride. though mostly illegal now, I recall at one time it was (in the long long ago) accessible to all users - even remember some MX back there ...

    the trail itself is really no great shakes, there are much better maintained trails for MTBs - but to be able to get to the ocean from skyline makes it an instant epic.

    we should all do whatever necessary to help this pass (though it seems unlikely). a few bucks to IMBA or MBOSC will help, and it's always a good idea to attend local advocacy meetings and community committee meetings - if for no other reason than to hear the unbelievable rants issued by 'local land owners' and 'communiy leaders'. You may actually be surprised to hear just how much the 'Vande-ites' hate us - and these folks are at every meeting!
    Not a buck to IMBA. They did nothing and worse all those years.

  12. #12
    fc
    fc is offline
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    34,229
    Interesting thread from 2006.

    It displays the futility of our struggle here in the Bay Area, stronghold of the hiker elite.

    I always thought the fight for trails was a fight for our children aka, the next generation. But now it seems not doable. Efforts and funds are probably better mobilized for Santa Cruz and many other parts of the country.

    Midpen, Marin and East Bay Parks are F- imho.

    Santa Clara County Parks, Demo, Santa Cruz are much better.
    IPA will save America

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    102
    Moab shares trails with jeeps, motorcycles, atv's. No problemo. Here trails are closed because some snake wants to cross it or hikers don't want to share.

    Might be better to teach our kids how to ride without damaging trails, without crossing hikers or rangers, etc. Sorry state of affairs... vive la résistance!
    Never limited by common sense...:nono:

  14. #14
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    11,566

    Skyline-to-the-Sea trail opening to mtbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by zecamara View Post
    Moab shares trails with jeeps, motorcycles, atv's. No problemo. Here trails are closed because some snake wants to cross it or hikers don't want to share.

    Might be better to teach our kids how to ride without damaging trails, without crossing hikers or rangers, etc. Sorry state of affairs... vive la résistance!
    Perhaps it would be worth considering the myriad differences between what was a failed uranium town of 4,000 people in the middle of nowhere, surrounded as far as the eye can see by USFS, NPS and BLM land, and the situation you’re dealing with in CA.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    6,106
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Interesting thread from 2006.

    It displays the futility of our struggle here in the Bay Area, stronghold of the hiker elite.

    I always thought the fight for trails was a fight for our children aka, the next generation. But now it seems not doable. Efforts and funds are probably better mobilized for Santa Cruz and many other parts of the country.

    Midpen, Marin and East Bay Parks are F- imho.

    Santa Clara County Parks, Demo, Santa Cruz are much better.
    Mountain bikers are growing in numbers, age and influence. Things will change. An interesting article. Like the old saying, 'Those who show up, are those who rule the world.'

    https://www.bikemag.com/lines-in-the...lity-of-trust/
    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 07-03-2018 at 02:54 PM.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: aliikane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,560
    I used to ride the skyline-to-sea trail with a couple of cousins in the early 90s. We generally rode the section near China Grade. Awesome trail. Haha. It was illegal back then but we were young kids looking for thrills.

    Once we rode the Skyline-to-Sea section to the Waddell Beach. The downhills were super fun. I remember it having some rocky loose technical steep sections. However the fun was brief because we were stupid. We were expecting a store at the sea and there was nothing. Had no food or water on the brutal trek back and barely crawled back to the car. Still good MTB memories.

    It would be great if they opened it. Definitely one of those epic type rides.

  17. #17
    default title
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    534
    California State Park Wilderness designation. That's it. Change the Wilderness standard to allow for bicycles and the whole S2S *could* be legal.

    Personally I'm much happier putting my energy with MBoSC and LToSCC / BLM to open San Vincente & Coast Dairies with trails designed for mountain bike use by some of the best trail designers in the area (MBoSC and Sierra Buttes).
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

  18. #18
    Axe
    Axe is offline
    Custom User Title
    Reputation: Axe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7,429
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Perhaps it would be worth considering the myriad differences between what was a failed uranium town of 4,000 people in the middle of nowhere, surrounded as far as the eye can see by USFS, NPS and BLM land, and the situation you’re dealing with in CA.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes, the main difference is that there are many more people here who need access for outdoor recreation.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    267
    The MTB access hours are rather inconvenient on that trail and require a good headlamp.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bchains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    58
    Revitalizing this thread. Is there an alternative S2S ride that would meet the objective of getting from Skyline to the coast, but maybe with the tradeoff of having to ride portions of roads if needed? Looking at Strava heatmaps there seem to be some jeep trails that people have ridden but it may involve fence jumping, etc.

    https://www.strava.com/heatmap#14.81...21423/hot/ride

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Scott M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by bchains View Post
    Revitalizing this thread. Is there an alternative S2S ride that would meet the objective of getting from Skyline to the coast, but maybe with the tradeoff of having to ride portions of roads if needed? Looking at Strava heatmaps there seem to be some jeep trails that people have ridden but it may involve fence jumping, etc.
    There's no legal way to do what you describe aside from riding the roads, and as for the other ways, it's best not to talk about on an open forum.

    If you want to ride from the start of S2S, here's a route: Hwy 9 --> Big Basin Way --> North Escape Road --> Gazos Creek Road --> Whitehouse Canyon Road --> Chalks Truck Trail.

    Riding Highway 9 would suck but people do it, after that the roads are pretty great, especially after N Escape.

    There's efforts happening to open more dirt in this area, in the meantime go write a letter in support of Cotoni-Coast Dairies access: https://mbosc.org/2020/02/action-ale...coast-dairies/

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
    Posts
    1
    For the Hwy 9 section, why wouldn't they just expand usage of Saratoga Toll Rd & the interconnector to include bikes. Hikers have the Skyline to the sea trail to themselves, equestrians can share. That or they swap and bikers get the skyline to the sea trail and equestrians share the saratoga toll road with hikers.

    On google maps Gazos Creek road doesn't connect, it sends you over Johanson instead...

  23. #23
    M8 M12 M15 deez nuts
    Reputation: Leopold Porkstacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    8,447
    Well, poaching it shall be then… until things change, that is.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: davee5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    83
    Can you actually get onto Chalks to/from Hwy 1?

    On the trail map it's marked as having "no public access" in several sections. Whitehouse Canyon similarly seems to have closed sections on private lands. Butano Fire Road is inconsistently marked as having closed gates across my 3 maps. All to say it's not clear to me what can and can't legally be done riding thru BBSP.

    (Never ridden Big Basin other than the cruise from Waddell <-> Berry Falls with my kids, but I've stared at the big map a lot, as I too aspire to ride over the hill & back on dirt.)

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by davee5 View Post
    Can you actually get onto Chalks to/from Hwy 1?

    On the trail map it's marked as having "no public access" in several sections. Whitehouse Canyon similarly seems to have closed sections on private lands. Butano Fire Road is inconsistently marked as having closed gates across my 3 maps. All to say it's not clear to me what can and can't legally be done riding thru BBSP.

    (Never ridden Big Basin other than the cruise from Waddell <-> Berry Falls with my kids, but I've stared at the big map a lot, as I too aspire to ride over the hill & back on dirt.)
    Yeah. The bottom of Chalks is behind a farm of some sort, can't remember perfectly. I've never entered through the farm, only ridden Chalks as a downhill so it was a quick trip through the farm. I've never ridden Whitehouse all the way down to Hwy 1. I'm not sure about the legality of any of this stuff, but the Old Growth Classic race route does give some social proof that it is fine.

  26. #26
    default title
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    534
    Quote Originally Posted by rafekett View Post
    the Old Growth Classic race route does give some social proof that it is fine.
    Nope. Old Growth Classic uses a private road that is otherwise closed to bikes and any other public traffic. That's part of the coordination that MBoSC had to put in a lot of work to make it happen on that route. Please do not ride private roads thinking that since it was used for a race route that it is otherwise accessible.
    "My opinions are often more offensive than my *******." - Twindaddy

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: davee5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    Nope. Old Growth Classic uses a private road that is otherwise closed to bikes and any other public traffic.
    Dang. Thanks for the beta, though.

    FWIW, here are the map sources I've used for plotting dead-ends to the sea. I like maps, and tend to collect 'em if they have enough detail to be worthwhile. Per your reporting the legality of access to trails on these references are accurate

    Current State Park Brochure
    - https://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/540/f...Layout2018.pdf
    BigBasin.org's old map (By Erik Goetze, dated)
    - http://www.mappery.com/maps/Big-Basi...-Trail-Map.jpg
    Scan of the "for purchase" map at the SP visitor center (also Erik Goetze, revised)
    - https://files.meetup.com/355866/big-basin.pdf

    I don't yet own maps from Redwood Hikes Press, but interestingly their maps include "unofficial trails" that are greyed out. For example there's a LOT of gray lines over by UCSC... probably not at a level of detail that can get the uninitiated out of a navigation bind, but probably the only printed map you can buy with those particular squiggles on them.
    Big Basin & Castle Rock
    - Bay Area Trail Map: Big Basin and Castle Rock
    Henry Cowell / Nisene / UC / Demo
    - Henry Cowell, Wilder Ranch, and Nisene Marks trail map

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by davee5 View Post
    I like maps, and tend to collect 'em if they have enough detail to be worthwhile.
    Me too. If you haven't already, you should check out Krebs Cycle Products Bicycle Touring and Mountain Biking Maps of Northern California. They've stopped printing new maps, but they're (extremely generously, imo) mailing out old backstock for free.
    2017 Jamis DragonSlayer Pro
    1995 Trek 930

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: davee5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by looks easy from here View Post
    Me too. If you haven't already, you should check out Krebs Cycle Products Bicycle Touring and Mountain Biking Maps of Northern California. They've stopped printing new maps, but they're (extremely generously, imo) mailing out old backstock for free.
    Whoa! Nice tip, I just reached out. I have a few Krebs maps from ages ago, always loved the little flourishes and the love put into the hand rendering. I used 'em heavily as part of a Pacific Coast route tour I did back before cell phones, all of 15 years back. I had to carry a book like a dozen maps. (How quickly things change.) I recall thinking that I wish all the maps I carried were as good as Krebs.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bchains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    58
    Well, if anyone wants to wait until 2037 for a peninsula Bay-to-Breakers style trail:

    https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/...24c9d4610.html

    San Mateo County's Bay to Sea Trail plans unveiled

    Eleven public and private groups have formalized a plan to construct a 40-mile, multiuse trail across the Peninsula that connects the San Francisco Bay to the Pacific Ocean, but the project won’t be complete for 17 years.

    What’s known as the Bay to Sea Trail is slated for completion in 2037, though it will likely be built in phases, some of which could open well before then, said Rachael Faye, public access program manager for nonprofit Peninsula Open Space Trust. POST protects open space on the Peninsula and in the South Bay.

    POST is one of the 11 public agencies and nonprofits collaborating on the project along with the California State Coastal Conservancy, MidPeninsula Regional Open Space District, Coastside Land Trust and San Mateo County Parks as well as the cities of Redwood City and Half Moon Bay.

    “The COVID-19 pandemic, with its ongoing shelter-in-place mandates, has underscored just how crucial access to nature is for everyone’s physical and mental well-being,” Faye said in a statement. “When completed, the Bay to Sea Trail will provide an extraordinary recreational opportunity in the Bay Area. It will connect communities and transit hubs to provide unprecedented open space access for all.”

    Long a dream of many, the idea for a trail connecting the Bay to the ocean has been discussed for decades.

    Faye said 17 years is needed for the project because it involves coordination among 11 organizations and there are involved design, land protection as well as community input phases.

    “It’s a complex project,” she said. “Even creating a segment of a trail can take years from design to completion and we’re looking at 40 miles of that.”

    The path of the trail is not yet finalized, but the trail will connect the existing San Francisco Bay Trail to the California Coastal Trail. Trail heads will likely be at Bair Island and the Ravenswood Open Space Preserve on the Bay side of the county, and south of Half Moon Bay at Wavecrest Open Space Preserve and the southern end of Cowell Ranch State Beach on the ocean side of the county.

    “It’ll be like a stitch that connects four north/south regional trails,” Faye said.

    “If one wanted to they could start in Redwood City and hike or ride a bike to the Bay Area Ridge Trail and head north to San Francisco.”

    The trail is intended for walking, hiking, biking and equestrian use, and it may also include a campground or other overnight accommodations for backpackers, Faye said.

    “Connecting the trail I anticipate would be step one, but we’d be looking in our planning efforts to see how a 40-mile trail can be enjoyed in a continuous trip over multiple days,” Faye said.

    Faye said it’s too early to estimate the cost of the project, but noted existing trails in the county cost roughly $1 million per mile. The project will ultimately be funded by contributions from the partner organizations as well as grants and donations.

    A feasibility study is expected to launch later this year and part of that effort will be to determine the phases of the project, Faye said.

Members who have read this thread: 208

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2020 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.