poop hits the fan [Sheriff to watch for Shuttle traffic in Santa Cruz neighborhood]- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    poop hits the fan [Sheriff to watch for Shuttle traffic in Santa Cruz neighborhood]

    Press-Banner - Sheriff to watch for illegal cyclists on private road

    Seems to be a little more public these days. Got a big pic and front page headline in the Banner today. Could get ugly for the shuttle boys
    Last edited by CHUM; 10-08-2011 at 03:52 PM. Reason: clarify title

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    ya beat me to the post.

    preaching to the choir here....but way uncool to shuttle 'undocumented' trails thru a private neighborhood.

    buncha a dumbasses....
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    Hey - now a map! I was wondering where the shuttling was occurring - had some suspicions, but now I know.


    (those that know me, know that I'd never shuttle this)

    Sure, they can now start shuttling to Empire Grade (as the article states), but that appears to be 4X the distance.

  4. #4
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    Saw this one coming...

    A rider went down last week on one of the more popular downhill trailzs and apparently had to be evacuated by the county. With so much heat already coming from the neighborhood association, I figured the sheriff's dept. would be involved soon.

    I pedal up to these trails and have shuttled these runs a couple times, always from Empire. I did take a look at the Forest Lakes subdivision once and would never think of shuttling there. It is a very quite community, with narrow, privately maintained roads. Totally seems like the wrong thing to do.

    Hopefully folks can build up the muscle mass to pedal to the top, or spend another 15 minutes on the road and shuttle from Empire.

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    Man, I never knew there was a commercial operation running shuttles up there....Is there some kind of Kiosk that I missed all these years?
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    Man I just can't believe it....what are these riders thinking! I have an old friend who has lived up in Forest Lakes for decades and I'd be pissed too if tons of riders and vehicles started running up and down the road hourly! If you have ever seen that little community you would know what I'm talking about.
    Pedal it or give up.

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    Wolfe said he met four bikers from Los Gatos who were respectable young men who said they bought their bikes for $8,000, and he enjoyed watching them ride down the hillside.
    At least they recognized that everyone isn't bad haha.
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    Interesting how the person talks about the price of the bikes. It's completely irrelevant to the issue at hand, but yet it was mentioned as if it made a difference.
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    Nice to see this get some more press...even if it's the Press-Banner.
    For those who weren't paying attention to the kerfuffle from Forest Lakes, there's not much commercial shuttling, but some has been documented by property owners up there. Shuttling traffic has been happening for years (10+ some say), but has picked up in the last few. Mostly it's "respectable young men" with Dakine pickups. Tension has escalated from both sides (shuttlers and property owners) this year. Sheriff dept. was at first completely ignoring the situation that was developing.

    Glengarry is a county road up to a point, then private roughly at the name change to Toll House Gulch with the owners on THG and then only at the top does it switch to Forest Lakes division.
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    Also, from the board minutes from FL, it looks like they're thinking of putting in a gate.
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    This wouldn't be an issue if we had shuttle-able trails that were legal anywhere in the area. I love how California is so progressive, but also so anti-downhill. Those touting "earn your turns", learn how to DH.

    Also, lol @ all the DH hate in here in mtbr, as well. Derp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Also, lol @ all the DH hate in here in mtbr, as well. Derp.
    Just because people would never endorse shuttling (or shuttling through a private, quiet neighborhood) doesn't mean they hate downhill riding.

    Sincerely,

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    Thanks Urban

    I don't hate downhilling/SS/road/cyclocross/track/hell, even uni cycles......

    just use some common sense

    that's all I'm sayin'

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    Quote Originally Posted by rwdbkr View Post
    Press-Banner - Sheriff to watch for illegal cyclists on private road

    Seems to be a little more public these days. Got a big pic and front page headline in the Banner today. Could get ugly for the shuttle boys
    What a great use of taxpayer resources. They can't seem to do anything about the junkies from shooting up near Pogonip but they can run down illegal cyclists. Just another example of how our government has its priorities completely screwed up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashWorship View Post
    What a great use of taxpayer resources. They can't seem to do anything about the junkies from shooting up near Pogonip but they can run down illegal cyclists. Just another example of how our government has its priorities completely screwed up.
    They can get a $500 fine out of the biker but they will not get anything out of the junky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrashWorship View Post
    What a great use of taxpayer resources. They can't seem to do anything about the junkies from shooting up near Pogonip but they can run down illegal cyclists.
    County land owners *****ing about people trespassing ends up making noise. MBOSC posted a note about this back in June -- Neighbor conflict: Shuttling at Forest Lakes Must Stop! | Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz (MBOSC) You aren't going to tell me that first photo is just a couple of downhillers.

    Santa Cruz has a problem in that there have been no new trails in years. There is a growing population of riders and the mix of local politics (Sierra Club/Friends of Pogonip) and funding (State Parks) hasn't helped that. However, pissing off a relatively small private community? Yeah, that's a pretty awesome way to engender good will towards the sport.

    If you want local downhill, the best local, legal option is Demo. If you are going to ride things you shouldn't, do so discretely and encourage others to be on good behavior.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    This wouldn't be an issue if we had shuttle-able trails that were legal anywhere in the area. I love how California is so progressive, but also so anti-downhill. Those touting "earn your turns", learn how to DH.

    Also, lol @ all the DH hate in here in mtbr, as well. Derp.
    It's not a DH issue. It's a disrespectful idiot issue.

  18. #18
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    Fact is, there is a demand for legal DH that you can shuttle. Nothing offers that. Unsure how plenty of other communities can get their act together and build awesome stuff focused for gravity riding, but we cant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Fact is, there is a demand for legal DH that you can shuttle. Nothing offers that. Unsure how plenty of other communities can get their act together and build awesome stuff focused for gravity riding, but we cant.

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    None of those places are in CA. I share in your frustration to some extent but comparing these places to the greater bay area is apples and oranges. It sucks but it's true.

    I agree that there is a demand for legit DH in NorCal but it's tough sledding around these parts unless you have a couple hundred acres you want to share.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone View Post
    Man I just can't believe it....what are these riders thinking! I have an old friend who has lived up in Forest Lakes for decades and I'd be pissed too if tons of riders and vehicles started running up and down the road hourly! If you have ever seen that little community you would know what I'm talking about.
    Pedal it or give up.
    This isn't a DH only or even a shuttle only issue, read the bottom of the article:

    People can also reach the slopes from Empire Grade Road, above the UCSC campus, but Wolfe hopes that discontinuing the shuttles through Forest Lakes will cut back on riding in the area.
    “It looked like so much fun,” Wolfe said. “But with the damage being done, we just can’t have that. I just hope state parks can do something.”

    Looks like their stance is that ALL riding in the area is damaging to the water shed. If you pedal up then you're still seen as part of the problem. Everyone should keep that in mind before they throw another segment of the cycling population under the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    This isn't a DH only or even a shuttle only issue, read the bottom of the article:






    Looks like their stance is that ALL riding in the area is damaging to the water shed. If you pedal up then you're still seen as part of the problem. Everyone should keep that in mind before they throw another segment of the cycling population under the bus.
    Let's be honest about it..."The damage being done"=the last letter in the alphabet.

    If people were just respectful and mature it wouldn't even be an issue but apparently that is too much to ask.

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    It appears the excriment certainly has hit the air conditioning here.

  23. #23
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    If this neighborhood had not experienced the vehicle traffic and cyclists rolling down their roads I don't think we would be having this conversation right now. All I'm saying is if these riders had stayed in the forest and not come out on some private road in a small neighborhood. I'm just as guilty as the next guy but am way more discreet about it. I am a cyclist and support all types of cycling.I am not singling out any one type of cycling.




    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    This isn't a DH only or even a shuttle only issue, read the bottom of the article:






    Looks like their stance is that ALL riding in the area is damaging to the water shed. If you pedal up then you're still seen as part of the problem. Everyone should keep that in mind before they throw another segment of the cycling population under the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    Let's be honest about it..."The damage being done"=the last letter in the alphabet.

    If people were just respectful and mature it wouldn't even be an issue but apparently that is too much to ask.
    That is very true, but I'm willing to bet that it's a very small percentage of riders(even of those who shuttle) who ruin it for the rest of us. The hostile attitude toward any one with a dual crown fork not pedaling back up(I know plenty of dudes who push and never shuttle) is counter productive, we're all in this together, we shall overcome, mountain biking is not a crime, etc....



    Another interesting debate: Would we have hit this tipping point if a certain trail farther up empire never got plowed?

  25. #25
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    The cross country and downhill riding in this county is, for the most part, easy to access by just getting on your bike and riding it there. You have a decision at the trailhead, Do I do the right thing with trail and community............or not. It is all about how we want people to perceive us while we have a blast.
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    This is my favorite part:
    Downhill cycling requires special bicycles with advanced shock absorbers in the front that cushion riders as they plunge down steep hillsides. Wolfe said he met four bikers from Los Gatos who were respectable young men who said they bought their bikes for $8,000, and he enjoyed watching them ride down the hillside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Wolfe said he met four bikers from Los Gatos who were respectable young men who said they bought their bikes for $8,000, and he enjoyed watching them ride down the hillside.
    Great, now all the roadies are gonna think we're cheapskates

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    This is why we cannot have nice things!

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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBMX View Post
    Fact is, there is a demand for legal DH that you can shuttle. Nothing offers that. Unsure how plenty of other communities can get their act together and build awesome stuff focused for gravity riding, but we cant.

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    California, well at least the greater Bay Area, is kind of pathetic as far as legal DH/FR trails go. This whole FL debacle was bound to escalate. I drive up and down Hwy9 four days a week and I still see the monster shuttle vehicles even after the issue first came up and got publicity earlier this summer. It boggles the mind how people just can't stop kicking an anthill even when the hive is already mad. I know that DHers and FRers have a legitimate and uphill battle to get access to decent trails but I can't see how pissing off residents of a quiet neighborhood helps that cause.
    I'm very skeptical about CA land managers ever being as progressive as those that you mentioned in those links, too much bike phobia in general and misguided tree-hugging IMHO. All the more reason why we have to play smart AND not piss people off who might be on our side in the long run.

    Wolfe said he met four bikers from Los Gatos who were respectable young men who said they bought their bikes for $8,000, and he enjoyed watching them ride down the hillside.

    “It looked like so much fun,” Wolfe said. “But with the damage being done, we just can’t have that. I just hope state parks can do something.”
    Hey man, wanna go for a klunk?

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    lots and lots of rangers and cal fire out there today and yesterday.

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    It's funny situation about this whole area. You cut MTB traffic and the junkies will go in. See how much effort county placing to get those out of Pognip.

    I guess that why this place maintained it's status "quo" for that long but pissing off neighbors is really stupid thing that throw the balance out. Those folks are living there so they pushed against the wall and will not back-up.
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    it's my fault......i showed you where the trails were.

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    Good catch

    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    This isn't a DH only or even a shuttle only issue, read the bottom of the article:


    “It looked like so much fun,” Wolfe said. “But with the damage being done, we just can’t have that. I just hope state parks can do something.”


    Looks like their stance is that ALL riding in the area is damaging to the water shed. If you pedal up then you're still seen as part of the problem. Everyone should keep that in mind before they throw another segment of the cycling population under the bus.
    I think there are several aspects to that, and they are partially right, partially wrong. It's not just the roads that are private in Forest Lakes. They own their own water supply and system as well, and the lands up there are part of the water shed for their springs and wells. I don't have any idea what percentage of the trails might be on their water shed, but anybody who has been in that area has likely seen torn up vegetation and trails built with no regard to erosion or sustainability.

    On the other hand, it does not follow that riding, even dh riding has to be destructive. But the trails would need to meet some design parameters and be managed and maintained.

  34. #34
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    It's sad to see the negative exposure for the the good responsible folks who ride the trail but what do you expect in the bay area? I don't care what you ride as long as you have a positive vibe. In my experience most everyone I run into is over biked (just look at demo lol) 6in travel bike with a poppy seat post but there are some really great people that go out and do their thing so who cares. In the end it's not that your a DH, XC, AM or freeride guy or gal. Either you're a [email protected] bag or someone that cares. The Bay is tough. I wish the best to the folks who are good people that ride these trails. Stay positive!!!

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    LOL, is it a matter of the skinny-legged kiddies just needing to HTFU and learn to ride up hills, or is there some unforseen force here (I believe in the force, y’know)?
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    I was amazed how much money is invested in trail systems.

    In Mountain Bike Action Mag a few month's ago, articles talking about towns all over USA that invest in trail building/maintenance w/ matching funds from Federal grants. Towns get huge tourism revenue and hotel tax. The Bay Area is not amiable to this and it is too bad for us as riders,and the local economies. Shame. We have great hills, 3 airports, and lots of trails that can be modified/extended/maintained for safety. Support destination mt. bike areas and take some road trips.

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    related to this discussion somewhat.....can someone answer me this??.....today i was at some popular trail((z))s spot on what i have long believed to be ucsc land. long story short, a lady on a horse rides past us, one dude tries to warn her to be careful riding the horse there because of people riding bikes and she blows her top saying she owns the land there, we should be riding up above on uc property, and she can ride her horse and we have to wait for her because the land where the trailz are belongs to her. and she rides off pissed. so who owns said trail land? hopefully y'all know what trail i'm talking about here....

  38. #38
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    my 2 cents

    Z's has nothing to do with this. Nobody really shuttles Z's they just park at Empire and ride in. Then ride back There is not much climbing at all. This is about the Delta Bravo's who are too F'n lazy to ride up the hill with there over capable 8+ inch travel bike to ride a f'n trail that can be cleared on a Cross bike. I love having my Nomad in SC but really There is not much that justifies over 5 inches if any travel at all. And its not just kids and tweeners its grown ass men. WTF. Really? Speak up if you think you need a DH bike for SC, I am curious what your riding.

    I am not a DH hater by any means just pissed about the shuttle monkeys in SC and in Saratoga( had to through that in since I am ranting) who will eventually push the authorities to enforce.
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    you are correct snow.....i'm going to start a new discussion for this question....

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    Z's has nothing to do with this. Nobody really shuttles Z's they just park at Empire and ride in. Then ride back There is not much climbing at all. This is about the Delta Bravo's who are too F'n lazy to ride up the hill with there over capable 8+ inch travel bike to ride a f'n trail that can be cleared on a Cross bike. I love having my Nomad in SC but really There is not much that justifies over 5 inches if any travel at all. And its not just kids and tweeners its grown ass men. WTF. Really? Speak up if you think you need a DH bike for SC, I am curious what your riding.

    I am not a DH hater by any means just pissed about the shuttle monkeys in SC and in Saratoga( had to through that in since I am ranting) who will eventually push the authorities to enforce.
    Dude, I don't think that half the people who ride with dual-crown bikes need them. It's a shame really, as shuttling up things they don't even need the bike for is the ultimate result.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    Z's has nothing to do with this. Nobody really shuttles Z's they just park at Empire and ride in. Then ride back There is not much climbing at all. This is about the Delta Bravo's who are too F'n lazy to ride up the hill with there over capable 8+ inch travel bike to ride a f'n trail that can be cleared on a Cross bike. I love having my Nomad in SC but really There is not much that justifies over 5 inches if any travel at all. And its not just kids and tweeners its grown ass men. WTF. Really? Speak up if you think you need a DH bike for SC, I am curious what your riding.

    I am not a DH hater by any means just pissed about the shuttle monkeys in SC and in Saratoga( had to through that in since I am ranting) who will eventually push the authorities to enforce.
    If you go back and look at the original post that started this conversation and read the PDF, it is clear that the Forest Lakes residents have seen the aforementioned trail. I agree that most people are not shuttling this trail but the residents see the shuttling and they see this "trail" and they lump the two together. My earlier reference to said trail was to the perceived watershed damage.

    I think there is, or were two or three trails in SC where a DH bike is worthy. One was "decommisoned" by State Parks last year.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    If you go back and look at the original post that started this conversation and read the PDF, it is clear that the Forest Lakes residents have seen the aforementioned trail. I agree that most people are not shuttling this trail but the residents see the shuttling and they see this "trail" and they lump the two together. My earlier reference to said trail was to the perceived watershed damage.

    I think there is, or were two or three trails in SC where a DH bike is worthy. One was "decommisoned" by State Parks last year.
    agreed.

    except for that the sadly decommissioned trail was DH bike worthy; it was close though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Hungus View Post
    I think there is, or were two or three trails in SC where a DH bike is worthy. One was "decommisoned" by State Parks last year.
    There's a few more than that. I can think of four off the top of my head in the conflict area which haven't been decommissioned. Three of those are do-able on a smaller bike, but there's a difference between squeaking down them dragging brake (further ruining the watershed) and actually riding the trail. (not pointing fingers at anyone, I've just seen dudes out there that probably should have taken a less steep way down)

    That said, I think most of the people who know where those trails are also are savvy enough to know not to piss off the locals. I can't remember the last time I shuttled up there, but please don't hate on me next time you see a guy with a green 951 pushing back up a trail. I promise not to piss the neighbors off or drag my brake

    It's a sad state of affairs when we have a community with so many bike enthusiasts, so many local companies with a stake in the game and so many great possible places with amazing dirt and beautiful scenery and yet we can't pull it together and secure great legal riding. Don't hate on the skinny legged kids who are just starting out and don't know any better than to not shuttle. Teach them a thing or two about trail etiquette and maybe someday our sport will grow enough to finally have some clout in the land use game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    There's a few more than that. I can think of four off the top of my head in the conflict area which haven't been decommissioned. Three of those are do-able on a smaller bike, but there's a difference between squeaking down them dragging brake (further ruining the watershed) and actually riding the trail. (not pointing fingers at anyone, I've just seen dudes out there that probably should have taken a less steep way down)

    That said, I think most of the people who know where those trails are also are savvy enough to know not to piss off the locals. I can't remember the last time I shuttled up there, but please don't hate on me next time you see a guy with a green 951 pushing back up a trail. I promise not to piss the neighbors off or drag my brake

    It's a sad state of affairs when we have a community with so many bike enthusiasts, so many local companies with a stake in the game and so many great possible places with amazing dirt and beautiful scenery and yet we can't pull it together and secure great legal riding. Don't hate on the skinny legged kids who are just starting out and don't know any better than to not shuttle. Teach them a thing or two about trail etiquette and maybe someday our sport will grow enough to finally have some clout in the land use game.
    Yeah, don't want to get into specifics but there is some big boy stuff out there if you look hard enough. Way over my head anyways.

    The part that bums me out about all of this is that every time I'm out in this area or Wilder where there is supposedly all of these "conflicts", the experience is always so positive, ya know. I say hi to hikers, other riders, equestrians, whatever and the vast majority of people are out enjoying themselves in the forest and have a smile on their face. I did a ride yesterday and saw CX bikes, Unicycles, hikers, DH bikes and everything in between and you can't really say that about too many places.

  46. #46
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    My take on it is fairly simple...

    That's a private road, inhabited by a small amount of people who live up there deliberately for the quiet and seclusion it gives them. And then we have Rowdy people driving up and down the hill every saturday and sunday all day, sometimes backing in and out of or unloading on people's property, blaring loud music, leaving trash, etc.

    Granted, I know that "not everyone" does this and I'm making some stereotypes that the dh crowd is loud and disrespectful... But it's kind of true. Just imagine if you were one of the people that lived on that road and every weekend (when you're actually home and able to relax and enjoy) you're peaceful neighborhood got loud and unpeaceful. It wouldn't be too cool.

    I see both sides and understand both sides. The dh crowd definitely needs to figure out how to get some access to build and shuttle somewhere legally. There's a ton of land out there after all. But until that day comes we've got to work on being better advocates for ourselves and not fit into the stereotypes that give us bad reputations.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by his dudeness View Post
    That's a private road . . . And then we have Rowdy people driving up and down the hill every saturday and sunday all day, sometimes backing in and out of or unloading on people's property, blaring loud music, leaving trash, etc.
    Aside from the private road issue, many neighborhoods see unwanted but legal weekend traffic by non-bike crowds.

    For example, I can think of several trailheads that start at the end of a residential street. Oakland has them, Pacifica has them. There may be room for a handful of cars. Any more cars than that and the street takes on a different character.

    I take it to heart, since I live two house from a historical landmark that sees all kinds of unwanted traffic: from formal parties with limos and two dozen cars, to the mid-afternoon Fed Ex guy eating lunch, to Friday night teenager hangouts. Point is, living where you do may mean you have to deal with unpleasantness.

    So when I'm pissed that my parking spot is taken up when I get home from work, I take a deep breath and gain some perspective.

    Now I know how the other guy feels when I park my truck on his street to ride my bike.

    damon

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by levee67 View Post
    Aside from the private road issue, many neighborhoods see unwanted but legal weekend traffic by non-bike crowds.

    For example, I can think of several trailheads that start at the end of a residential street. Oakland has them, Pacifica has them. There may be room for a handful of cars. Any more cars than that and the street takes on a different character.

    I take it to heart, since I live two house from a historical landmark that sees all kinds of unwanted traffic: from formal parties with limos and two dozen cars, to the mid-afternoon Fed Ex guy eating lunch, to Friday night teenager hangouts. Point is, living where you do may mean you have to deal with unpleasantness.

    So when I'm pissed that my parking spot is taken up when I get home from work, I take a deep breath and gain some perspective.

    Now I know how the other guy feels when I park my truck on his street to ride my bike.

    damon
    you choose to live near a historical landmark. These people chose to live in the mountains in secluded community. These shuttle monkeys are riding trials that are NOT OPEN. The residents should not have to put up with a nuisance that is created by doing something that is illegal. This is why the enforcement is going to start. The squeaky wheel(s) get the oil. The authorities could not care less if we ride there but once they get a group of angry citizens writing letters to people who are politically connected and policy makers they will use there influence to appease the angry voters.

    So shuttle monkeys, if not for the residents of this community, please stop the shuttle so we all can enjoy these unsanctioned trails. Or at least shuttle to Empire instead.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    you choose to live near a historical landmark. These people chose to live in the mountains in secluded community. These shuttle monkeys are riding trials that are NOT OPEN. The residents should not have to put up with a nuisance that is created by doing something that is illegal. This is why the enforcement is going to start. The squeaky wheel(s) get the oil. The authorities could not care less if we ride there but once they get a group of angry citizens writing letters to people who are politically connected and policy makers they will use there influence to appease the angry voters.

    So shuttle monkeys, if not for the residents of this community, please stop the shuttle so we all can enjoy these unsanctioned trails. Or at least shuttle to Empire instead.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    Z's has nothing to do with this. Nobody really shuttles Z's they just park at Empire and ride in. Then ride back There is not much climbing at all. This is about the Delta Bravo's who are too F'n lazy to ride up the hill with there over capable 8+ inch travel bike to ride a f'n trail that can be cleared on a Cross bike. I love having my Nomad in SC but really There is not much that justifies over 5 inches if any travel at all. And its not just kids and tweeners its grown ass men. WTF. Really? Speak up if you think you need a DH bike for SC, I am curious what your riding.

    I am not a DH hater by any means just pissed about the shuttle monkeys in SC and in Saratoga( had to through that in since I am ranting) who will eventually push the authorities to enforce.

    A-fricken-men brotha.

    Almost everything out there is doable on a 5" travel bike. But if you need all that help, climbs in aren't all that difficult, even on a full DH rig. And hey, you might even get a little fitness out of it!

    I'd be great if there way a viable shuttle options for the DH guys, but there's just not for these particular trails.
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post
    So shuttle monkeys, if not for the residents of this community, please stop the shuttle so we all can enjoy these unsanctioned trails. Or at least shuttle to Empire instead.
    Would make for a great sign at the bottom of Toll House. ;')

    damon

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowjnky View Post

    So shuttle monkeys, if not for the residents of this community, please stop the shuttle so we all can enjoy these unsanctioned trails. Or at least shuttle to Empire instead.
    I wish I could rep ya for that. But alas... Still very true
    Even coming from someone who has not ridden there.

  53. #53
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    I think that you have to go into this community to get a better Idea of how disruptive it may be. Most of the roads dead end with limited space to turn around. The roads are very narrow (one lane in most cases), there are families with little kids that live up there. Huge trucks and vans going up and down are very out of place.

    Just use some judgment or common sense if you have to go ride a 90 second downhill run that would take less than 30 minutes to ride up to.

    I would bet most people that live up there don't really want to have sheriff's poking around, just my observation.

    RJ

  54. #54
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    Impounded

    I don't know what they did, but we saw bikes being loaded into a Sheriff's and somebody's ($8K ?) bikes got shuttled back to 701 Ocean Street. Anyone know more?
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    how many stories is the county gov building? Maybe they can do the stair wells inside from the top!

    they can always shuttle back up on the elevator.....

  56. #56
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    I think it is four but maybe five, I have never been past the fourth floor. Just don't exit through the metal detectors near the courthouse, I bet the sheriff is there!
    RJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone No Balone View Post
    how many stories is the county gov building? Maybe they can do the stair wells inside from the top!

    they can always shuttle back up on the elevator.....

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    Looking at Google maps, Empire Grade doesn't look so bad - why is it 4X longer? Is it just slower and windier than going at near-highway speed up 9? It seems that you only chop off a small section at the top using Empire Grade vs THG.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    Looks like their stance is that ALL riding in the area is damaging to the water shed.
    I suspect that is a way to draw attention to the issue. Nobody really gives a rats ass about some small remote community, so they had to invent a reason why they should be helped out.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightMiner View Post
    Looking at Google maps, Empire Grade doesn't look so bad - why is it 4X longer? Is it just slower and windier than going at near-highway speed up 9? It seems that you only chop off a small section at the top using Empire Grade vs THG.
    Each way it probably adds 20 minutes to the shuttle. might not seem like a lot until you realize each run is ~5 mins long. Still a heck of a lot better than getting your bikes impounded though. I'd rather drive up empire than risk getting popped and ruining it for everyone.

    Maybe enough people will get busted that word will get around it's not a good idea to do that anymore. Problem is mountain biking is only going to get more popular, which means an influx of new people who are enthusiastic but don't know the unspoken rules (i.e. respect the locs where you ride). It doesn't mean their bad people by any means, just ignorant. And of course with any population growth there's always going to be a fair share of ****** bags. The best solution is to create a legal area for people to ride. Make it as good or better than the current offerings and post up some signage so the new kids know what the rules are... but I suspect I' preaching to the choir here.


    *EDIT* Heh, I like how you can't say ****** on here.

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