Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal


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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    This heatwave seems pretty serious.

    It's all about the wind of course. Quite a bit of it today in the South Bay. Be aware and cautious and let's see how it develops. This the time when little fires can rage.
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    Has the bay area had any rain lately. Further north there have been a few small rain events, but everything is still very dry.
    Mid 90's for a few days with high winds too. Late in the week though, cooler and chance for moisture by the weekend, slight chance probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Has the bay area had any rain lately. Further north there have been a few small rain events, but everything is still very dry.
    Mid 90's for a few days with high winds too. Late in the week though, cooler and chance for moisture by the weekend, slight chance probably.
    Half an inch last week. Was very nice but gone now
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    This is it... grave danger. Don’t get heatstroke and don’t light our forests on fire. It is the perfect blend of heat, dry and hot wind today.
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    Such a joke. We're like a third world country here when the wind blows. Thanks to our wonderful state energy regulatory commission that allowed PG and E to plow profits to shareholders instead of infrastructure we now get days long blackouts with the bonus of paying the highest energy rates in the country for that privilege. Can someone give me an example of anywhere else in the country besides this state that does the same thing?

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    These shutoffs are PGE passive-aggressive FU to everyone who is suing them.

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    Corporate greed, forest mismanagement, price controls, dangerous coverage requirements, lawsuits......so many things being exposed by the weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackies Pasture View Post
    These shutoffs are PGE passive-aggressive FU to everyone who is suing them.
    Right, but don't forget how many people died and the fact that an entire community was decimated because of a fire that started because of a spark in dry weeds.

    PG&E is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    If/When a wildfire starts they are to blame for not shutting down power and of course like now, they are blamed for prematurely shutting down power to save lives and keep a community from burning to the ground.

    I'm sorry you lived through the last fire -I hope you weren't one that lost everything.

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    Anyone else loose power? We were out from around 3am till about 4:30pm today. Ran into a mother and daughter who hadn't been to school for 2 days because of outages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Allan View Post
    Such a joke. We're like a third world country here when the wind blows. Thanks to our wonderful state energy regulatory commission that allowed PG and E to plow profits to shareholders instead of infrastructure we now get days long blackouts with the bonus of paying the highest energy rates in the country for that privilege. Can someone give me an example of anywhere else in the country besides this state that does the same thing?
    The most cogent posting in this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctic Pride View Post
    Anyone else loose power? We were out from around 3am till about 4:30pm today. Ran into a mother and daughter who hadn't been to school for 2 days because of outages.
    where do you live? i got the warning in Santa Rosa, but the winds didnt whip up as hard as expected. no shutoff.

    i think i might by a Honda Generator which should insure i NEVER ever get a blackout ever again. I'll single-highhandedly save my neighbors the agony of soft ice cream.
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    Which Honda? We're in a very high fire danger area and haven't had this happen yet, but we're thinking of getting a small generator. I hoping the season will go out with a whimper this year.

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    All those people that went to bed early because there was nothing else to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Which Honda? We're in a very high fire danger area and haven't had this happen yet, but we're thinking of getting a small generator. I hoping the season will go out with a whimper this year.
    Look at the Champion brand too. Cheaper for very similar features. Honda does not have a monopoly.

    A 1000watt will power the lights, but not a microwave and not anything that heats. A 2000 watt will run some smaller microwaves (barely) if nothing else is plugged in at the same time.

    You can buy bigger generators, but they start getting big and heavy. I have 2 2000 watt generators that I hook up in parallel, they will run the microwave, TV, central heat blower, and lights all at once. The advantage of 2 running in parallel is they are lighter and easier to move, and if one stops working I still have one. Disadvantage is more gas than one large one, and twice as much maintenance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    Look at the Champion brand too. Cheaper for very similar features. Honda does not have a monopoly.

    A 1000watt will power the lights, but not a microwave and not anything that heats. A 2000 watt will run some smaller microwaves (barely) if nothing else is plugged in at the same time.

    You can buy bigger generators, but they start getting big and heavy. I have 2 2000 watt generators that I hook up in parallel, they will run the microwave, TV, central heat blower, and lights all at once. The advantage of 2 running in parallel is they are lighter and easier to move, and if one stops working I still have one. Disadvantage is more gas than one large one, and twice as much maintenance.
    Thoughts on the propane generators?

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    I’m eyeballing the Honda EU3000.

    I can ratchet strap it to my dolly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    where do you live? i got the warning in Santa Rosa, but the winds didnt whip up as hard as expected. no shutoff.

    i think i might by a Honda Generator which should insure i NEVER ever get a blackout ever again. I'll single-highhandedly save my neighbors the agony of soft ice cream.
    We are right in between Grass Valley and Nevada City. Power was on in the town centers but out in much of the residential areas.

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    I've been considering the Honda EU2200i since it is small and could run in parallel. I like how quiet it is and it would be easy to take camping if we wanted. I don't see using it much, so versatility would be nice.

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    We have a Honda generator which gets regular use during winter storms in the Santa Crud mountains. It is extremely well-made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jibmaster View Post
    I am not familiar with that brand. How quiet is it?

    The popularity of the Honda and Yamaha generators is due to their noise levels. From twenty feet away you cannot even hear them running.
    Some of the cheaper brands make the devil's own noise and you are raising the ire of neighbors on the next block.

    The noise level is important if you plan taking it camping. Most campgrounds have noise level regulations.
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    Noise Level
    68 dB

    Some of the smaller Honda/Yamaha generators I see are in the high 50's/low 60's dB.

    Well, it is a gasoline motor - I didn't find it very quiet, but it's not as loud as my lawn mower - around 90dB.

    I got it because of the ability to hook up the entire house when I get the wiring done.
    Didn't care about the size. I'm not planning on taking it camping.

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    San Diego Gas & Electric started doing these shut offs in 2013. Southern California Edison in 2017. PG&E is only one of the utilities to also implement shut offs recently. The way the state enforces the Inverse Condemnation Rule has these utilities scared, as well as unhealthy Forrest’s, years of drought, bark beetles and climate change etc. These shut offs are the new norm for Cali.

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    All of Mono County had the power cut within the last few weeks. The little Honda I'm looking at is between 48 to 57 dBA.

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    Power outage map

    Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal-power-outage-map.jpg

    Wednesday and Thursday...maybe longer up here...

    https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/eme...mpact-map.page

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Allan View Post
    Such a joke. We're like a third world country here when the wind blows. Thanks to our wonderful state energy regulatory commission that allowed PG and E to plow profits to shareholders instead of infrastructure we now get days long blackouts with the bonus of paying the highest energy rates in the country for that privilege. Can someone give me an example of anywhere else in the country besides this state that does the same thing?
    Total third world. Power lines should be underground or have line breakers so if the line breaks, the power is stopped before the line hits the ground. Think about this, we live in the tech capital of the world but we can't have consistent power and we can't travel from point A to point B at highway speeds because of zero planning.

    So you will get your light by candle and transportation will only be a bike or horse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by careyj1 View Post
    Total third world. Power lines should be underground or have line breakers so if the line breaks, the power is stopped before the line hits the ground. Think about this, we live in the tech capital of the world but we can't have consistent power and we can't travel from point A to point B at highway speeds because of zero planning.

    So you will get your light by candle and transportation will only be a bike or horse.
    Definitely something that PG&E needs to get implemented. The technology is there, I believe they are called Reclosures I know that SoCal Edison changed out theirs some time ago so the lines don't try to reconnect and stay off so sparks after a line break are not an issue.

    Side note: I used to be a work at CAISO where both the wholesale energy market and grid controls are for almost all of the western US. With that map, my ex-coworkers are not having fun and getting less sleep than folks with newborns.

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    I have a friend who works at PG&E...she brags about using the personal pge jet to fly to Southern California...even though PG&E filed for bankruptcy...

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    It will be interesting to see how tight PG&E has to turn the screws before the State of California agrees to indemnify them from all future fire lawsuits.

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    Did you hear about this piece of shit?

    Jeremy Gendreau, 35, of Oroville was arrested Tuesday on multiple charges of arson in forest land during a state of emergency, according to a news release issued by Cal Fire.

    Gendreau was arrested early in the morning following a joint investigation involving the Butte County District Attorney’s Office, California State Parks, Oroville Police and Cal Fire. He is being held on $1.95 million bail.

    According to Fire Captain John Gaddie, Gendreau had been under investigation for some time after authorities received an anonymous tip through the arson hotline. Police arrested Gendreau as he was on his way to work. He is suspected of setting multiple fires in the month of September.

    Read more here: https://www.sacbee.com/news/californ...#storylink=cpy
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    Quote Originally Posted by jibmaster View Post
    Power outage map

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	power outage map.jpg 
Views:	59 
Size:	167.4 KB 
ID:	1284885

    Wednesday and Thursday...maybe longer up here...

    https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/eme...mpact-map.page
    dang, been on a road trip for a week and come back to smokey air and power outages..lets get them rains going

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    Its not just PGE greed and USFS mismanagement. Something to consider is the miss management of the land owner in not creating defensible space/cleaning debris-trash/controlled burning, and people refusing to pay for better fire/police coverage and when there is an event they refuse to take any responsibility for making the choice of living where they live and their unwillingness to pay for better coverage based on some principle of what something should provide but cant and never will be able to too...

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    Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal

    Probably the next big fire will be caused by a generator catching on fire, two did during the last outage and lucky they got them under control before the forest went up. Lots of folks in those shut off areas have generators and fires from them is not unusual but typically there used during winter storms.

    On another note a controlled burn out in the Cables creek area across from kirkwood has gotten a bit out of hand. It’s out of the piles and there dosing control lines, I’ve observed a fair number of out of area hotshots arriving as there trying to get it back under control before the big winds arrive. Cool zone be a shame to see it all go up, air quality in south lake has not been good.


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    Ironically, during the last planned power outage there were multiple fires in Nevada County, not due to downed power lines but because people’s generators were starting grass fires.
    Three steps backward...

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    We should have undergrouded power transmission a long time ago. F PG&E

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    We should have undergrouded power transmission a long time ago. F PG&E
    PG&E has always done right by me.

    Wac wac!
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    There was no way in hell that PG&E would ever have gained access to all the property needed to go below ground with high voltage transmission lines. I'll take Urban Sprawl for $1000, Alex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    PG&E has always done right by me.

    Wac wac!
    I'm not saying they pull a San Bruno everywhere, but, as someone here mentioned, they favored short-term profits over investment in infrastructure hardening. Especially in the most vulnerable rural areas. The workers I've dealt with in the field have been great, but the captains are pirates, no? Erin Brockovich n shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    The workers I've dealt with in the field have been great...
    My experience, too.

    I had problems with my gas heater- PG&E guy came out, I was playing Stevie Ray on the stereo, we got to talking about music, I played DJ while he found new stuff to fix, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    There was no way in hell that PG&E would ever have gained access to all the property needed to go below ground with high voltage transmission lines. I'll take Urban Sprawl for $1000, Alex.
    We in SF should have, however. The power was out at my house for 18 hours a couple of months ago while they installed a brand new telephone pole. I feel for the blackout-affected folks!

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    The people mad about the power shut offs would be the first to complain about the inconvenience of under-grounding the lines. They'd also be the first to sue if burned out! PGE is to blame for many things, but there is enough to go around. Remember the people we keep voting into power are the people letting PGE get away with everything. The PUC is worthless. The PGE line level staff are great as far as I'm concerned too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    We in SF should have, however. The power was out at my house for 18 hours a couple of months ago while they installed a brand new telephone pole. I feel for the blackout-affected folks!
    Decisions to go underground in cities (or not to) are made by municipalities though.

    Truth be told, our basic premise of deferred maintenance is going to bite us in the ass in so many ways, we are only beginning to feel the effects. Bridges, highways, dams, tunnels, power grids... They're all failing because we fail to endorse infrastructure spending and upgrades.
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    when i lived in the foothills, my subaru slid off an icy dirt road into a ditch. After a couple of minutes a PG&E guy came along in a mini backhoe and yanked my car out of the ditch. When i offered the guy all the money in my pocket for helping me he refused to take it. Honestly if that guy hadnt come along i would have been seriously screwed...

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    Caldecott Tunnel Closure 10/9 @ 12 Noon or Earlier to Power Shut Off...

    Also Devils Slide tunnel as well.

    Recent reports indicate that PG&E will be shutting down the power at the Caldecott and Devil’s Slide (Tom Lantos) tunnels tomorrow. This power shutdown will result in the tunnels being closed until power is restored. The power outage at these locations are estimated to begin at 12:00 P.M. (or earlier) on October 9, 2019. There is no estimated time when the power will be restored.

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    "Truth be told, our basic premise of deferred maintenance is going to bite us in the ass in so many ways, we are only beginning to feel the effects."

    This is correct, we don't maintain anything and now we're wondering why stuff is failing. This is the richest part of the richest state in the richest country in the world -- we can do better. PGE has the oldest equipment in the country with some gear over 100 years old --- think about that the next time you make fun of a southern state.

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    WOW. As an aside, I was one of those with a black and yellow We Can Dig It (Highway 1 Devil's Slide Tunnel) bumper sticker on my 77 Jeep Cherokee Chief Sport. Mainly because it matched the color scheme of the 2 door wagon and had the word Devil on it. We dug it and now we shut it down....

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    According to KCRA a few minutes ago. PGE says power may be off for up to a week. Total scare tactics but there will be huge backlash from this upcoming boondoggle.
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    It seems the PG&E web server is down as well:
    https://www.isitdownrightnow.com/pge.com.html

    I was getting:
    Error code: SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
    earlier today and now get redirected to:
    https://www.pgealerts.com/

    "Your Safety is Our Top Priority
    We created the PG&E Safety and Alert Center to ensure that you have access to important safety information in the event that the regular PG&E website is down."

    Maybe they shut off power to their data center, doh!

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    Good map of the shut off area -- zoom out for more areas.
    https://www.pressdemocrat.com/multim...ap?ref=related

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    Well played pge.....well played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    According to KCRA a few minutes ago. PGE says power may be off for up to a week. Total scare tactics but there will be huge backlash from this upcoming boondoggle.
    A classic Enron-style shakedown.

    There is a reason they are called Power, Greed and Extortion.

    Living up to the E in its name, they are going to turn the screws on northern Cali for several days until Gov. Gavin Greaseball screams "uncle" and agrees to indemnify and hold harmless PGE from all future customer incineration and explosion events.

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    SoCal Edison has done this for years -- Mammoth was out a few weeks back. I really don't think this is a shakedown, it is years of not maintaining equipment. I do think the blame should rest on the PUC as well as PGE.

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    Not making excuses, but given how many fault lines there are in CA, I'm not sure it's as easy as just burying the lines. Seems like Japan has a huge number of above-ground cables as well fwiw.
    buzzes like a fridge

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Crawler View Post
    It seems the PG&E web server is down as well:
    https://www.isitdownrightnow.com/pge.com.html

    I was getting:
    Error code: SSL_ERROR_BAD_CERT_DOMAIN
    earlier today and now get redirected to:
    https://www.pgealerts.com/

    "Your Safety is Our Top Priority
    We created the PG&E Safety and Alert Center to ensure that you have access to important safety information in the event that the regular PG&E website is down."

    Maybe they shut off power to their data center, doh!
    The update site used to be in PGE.COM now randomly seems to go to pgealerts.com. I think they tried to do some sorta redirect to load balance (cuz they didn't have the umpf to deal with the massive traffic load on the main page). That redirect freaked out the cert check by browsers and other apps. Now the outage map redirects to: https://m.pge.com/#event-map

    Their twitter account is posting semi-useless maps that have no where close to enough detail when one zooms in.

    That's my technical take on this shit show at this time.
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    Power gets shut off for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

    Does anybody know how the utility company is able to determine there are no downed lines before they flip the switch to "ON"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Power gets shut off for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

    Does anybody know how the utility company is able to determine there are no downed lines before they flip the switch to "ON"?
    They don't. That's why they are talking about multi-day outages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    Not making excuses, but given how many fault lines there are in CA, I'm not sure it's as easy as just burying the lines. Seems like Japan has a huge number of above-ground cables as well fwiw.
    However, they had the clever idea of insulating their wires.

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    I just got back from buying some gas for the generator and the car. There was a HUGE line like one might see in hurricane season on the East Coast.

    The other gas stations hiked their prices way up.

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    All I want to know is, what will happen to us-west-1?
    Half the planet is deep into bloody tribal mayhem. We’re just riding bikes (and drinking beer) here.
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    My solar panels are grid-tied, which is frustrating not only because they won't generate electricity during the outage, but also because I can't use my own electricity when they flip the switch. I need to figure out a battery solution...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    We should have undergrouded power transmission a long time ago. F PG&E
    An estimated $1 million per mile in established neighborhoods.

    That is why it is really only done while new subdivisions are under construction. No rights of way, landscaping, driveways, sidewalks, blocked streets, etc to deal with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    My solar panels are grid-tied, which is frustrating not only because they won't generate electricity during the outage, but also because I can't use my own electricity when they flip the switch. I need to figure out a battery solution...
    Same! Waiting for the Tesla power wall to become cheaper... not holding my breath though.
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Power gets shut off for 5 minutes or 5 hours.

    Does anybody know how the utility company is able to determine there are no downed lines before they flip the switch to "ON"?
    After the last shutdown in the Oroville area there were a lot of helicopters covering the area while they were restoring power. Im assuming they were contracting for PG&E to inspect major lines. And I also assume it requires a lot of inspection on the ground for local lines in the forested aread

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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    They don't. That's why they are talking about multi-day outages.
    How does a multi-day outage make a difference? Ground is still dry when live wire is energized days or minutes after a wire has broken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn View Post
    After the last shutdown in the Oroville area there were a lot of helicopters covering the area while they were restoring power. Im assuming they were contracting for PG&E to inspect major lines. And I also assume it requires a lot of inspection on the ground for local lines in the forested aread
    Ahh okay.

    That is what common-sense would suggest but also can't imagine how they can 'clear' a section.

    Wait until wind dies down totally, start reconnaissance then check the boxes that say zone 1 is clear, etc. Can't spend 9 hours inspecting areas then have a wind event and start over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    How does a multi-day outage make a difference? Ground is still dry when live wire is energized days or minutes after a wire has broken.
    I think it is much less of a hazard when the wind dies down.

  69. #69
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    Meanwhile, countless hundreds of thousands of Europeans continue to laugh at us.
    Don’t frail and blow if you’re going to Braille and Flow.

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    They have been doing so since (at least) Nov 2016.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wg View Post
    The update site used to be in PGE.COM now randomly seems to go to pgealerts.com. I think they tried to do some sorta redirect to load balance (cuz they didn't have the umpf to deal with the massive traffic load on the main page). That redirect freaked out the cert check by browsers and other apps. Now the outage map redirects to: https://m.pge.com/#event-map

    Their twitter account is posting semi-useless maps that have no where close to enough detail when one zooms in.

    That's my technical take on this shit show at this time.
    Sounds about right. So they have all the media outlets blast out to ~16 million customers to go check on-line if they will be affected. Crash goes the pge.com server(s). Great planning on their part, but I guess that's to be expected from them.

  72. #72
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    If you live in an area that is likely to be affected, make sure your car/truck has a full tank of gas. Gas stations will likely have no power.

  73. #73
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    Why are they closing tunnels? I mean, I know they wouldn't have lights in them, but can't people just use their headlights?
    "합니다 행사에서 디비 판매 합니다 관련해" Lesleybien

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Why are they closing tunnels? I mean, I know they wouldn't have lights in them, but can't people just use their headlights?
    Because they hate fun and something about ventilation.

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    Or just ride your bike 🤷*♂️😂

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    Quote Originally Posted by opekone View Post
    Because they hate fun and something about ventilation.

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    Well, they'd better shut down half the bathrooms in the state, then.
    "합니다 행사에서 디비 판매 합니다 관련해" Lesleybien

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  77. #77
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    A study in human nature. The hysteria surrounding this is fascinating. Lines at gas stations and grocery stores running out of ice and other staple items.

    Get this, we didn't lose power. I guess it could still happen. Meh...
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  78. #78
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    my understanding is that they have to physically and remotely inspect all of um before they can flip the switch. There probably using some kind of algorithm based on past events and probability to predict loses, time down and revenue loss due to the closures..and deploying an re-inaction plan on that...

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    I'm in Tam Valley, we were not on the outage map but our power's out. I have my fridge and some essentials on generator for now. . . .

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    Furthermore, Tam Junction appears to have power. I see lights on at Good Earth, the gas station and the strip mall over there. Strange. Haven't ventured into Mill Valley yet. I think I'm right on the edge of the cutoff. ...

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    A study in human nature. The hysteria surrounding this is fascinating. Lines at gas stations and grocery stores running out of ice and other staple items.

    Get this, we didn't lose power. I guess it could still happen. Meh...
    It's human nature to take many things for granted. If your power goes out for 4 days, I suspect you'll have some feelings about it. If you have kids it gets extra complex and a lot of young families live in multi-unit/above ground floor/no yard situations and don't have the luxury of running a generator. If you don't have Capital, the ISM we have allowed to dominate doesn't give a rat's ass about you.

    -not directed at you - just spewing some Caw Caw

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    It's human nature to take many things for granted. If your power goes out for 4 days, I suspect you'll have some feelings about it. If you have kids it gets extra complex and a lot of young families live in multi-unit/above ground floor/no yard situations and don't have the luxury of running a generator. If you don't have Capital, the ISM we have allowed to dominate doesn't give a rat's ass about you.

    -not directed at you - just spewing some Caw Caw
    Understood. No worries.

    Having my travel trailer in my side yard with topped off batteries, an inverter and two full tanks of propane, probably allows me to be a bit more casual about the whole outage thing.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Understood. No worries.

    Having my travel trailer in my side yard with topped off batteries, an inverter and two full tanks of propane, probably allows me to be a bit more casual about the whole outage thing.
    Chuck. your power is out?

    mine is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    Chuck. your power is out?

    mine is.
    West of Summerfield and South of 12 is still on, so I'm still good. For now.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    West of Summerfield and South of 12 is still on, so I'm still good. For now.
    how long is your longest extension cord. ??
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    how long is your longest extension cord. ??
    Long enough to reach my blender.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

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    Sounds like UCSC will lose power and cancel classes today. I was going to ride UC and Pogonip tomorrow morning. Are the power outages going to have any impact on my ride? I am thinking I'll be ok...

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post
    Sounds like UCSC will lose power and cancel classes today. I was going to ride UC and Pogonip tomorrow morning? Are the power outages going to have any impact on my ride? I am thinking I'll be ok...
    Since cell towers are mandated to have backup power available during outages, you should still be able to update your IG Story. Have a great ride!!

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    I'm just here for the comments on my local Nextdoor. Glorious.

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    How many of the affected people will go to bed early tonight because there is no TV to watch?
    Will there be a mini baby boom in about 9 months?
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  92. #92
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    I have a feeling this is going to become the new normal in many parts of CA.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal-image.jpg  


  93. #93
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    Just heard that Angwin won't have power until Sunday or Monday.

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    You should check PGE's Twitter page for a laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    I'm just here for the comments on my local Nextdoor. Glorious.

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    if near highway 4 corridor, the luberoom has backup power. That's interesting on so many levels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post
    Sounds like UCSC will lose power and cancel classes today. I was going to ride UC and Pogonip tomorrow morning. Are the power outages going to have any impact on my ride? I am thinking I'll be ok...
    They cancelled classes today but told the staff to show up for work. It is very quiet. Riding should be completely unaffected, but so far, no power cut at UCSC or in Bonny Doon. There is only the mildest of breezes at the moment. The roads are very quiet, too.

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    I just hope that PGE doesn't follow the lead of the insurance companies and just stop providing coverage for those at higher risk of wildfires.

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    I hope the State of California takes them over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    I hope the State of California takes them over.
    hmm, this post immediately made me think about how "well" the DMV is run.

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    I can't see how the state would do any better -- remember the state is supposed to be watching them anyway. Can you imagine a state run utility, all decisions would be for political reasons?

    I think we just need to open up their territory for open public bids. Maybe a company from out of state can do better.

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    maybe the state can promote the Parks Director to run the power grid so that the Sierra Club can influence the shut down of all electricity in the state.

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    The DMV sucks.

    But at least they haven't diverted $100m in safety money to bonuses for execs and $ for shareholders like PGE has. And they're still trying to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hel Mot View Post
    hmm, this post immediately made me think about how "well" the DMV is run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by king_dave72 View Post
    The DMV sucks.

    But at least they haven't diverted $100m in safety money to bonuses for execs and $ for shareholders like PGE has. And they're still trying to do it.
    Agreed. If a major concern is maintaining an aging infrastructure, has the state demonstrated that ability in other areas?

  104. #104
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    Yosemite choking on smoke from the Briceburg fire:

    https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/nature/aqmonitoring.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    I hope the State of California takes them over.
    That work as well as public housing.
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I can't see how the state would do any better -- remember the state is supposed to be watching them anyway. Can you imagine a state run utility, all decisions would be for political reasons?

    I think we just need to open up their territory for open public bids. Maybe a company from out of state can do better.
    Like Enron.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hel Mot View Post
    hmm, this post immediately made me think about how "well" the DMV is run.
    Not as bad as PG&E.

    At least the shareholder wouldn't be preventing them from insulating their wires or putting them in the ground.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    That work as well as public housing.
    California still has the best public University system in the country. Why cherry-pick your examples for analogies?

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I have a feeling this is going to become the new normal in many parts of CA.

    That’s my uncle

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    Like Enron.

    Yep - deregulation spawned the Enron debacle.

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    For municipalizing PG&E, think SMUD or Roseville Electric rather than the DMV. Because that's the model. Hint: Both have significantly lower rates than PG&E and their customers love them.

    Not directly analogous, but better than the DMV.

    Besides, PG&E's business model is going to be killed by distributed PV, cheaper batteries, and microgrids at some point anyway. Might as well rip the bandaid off earlier and invest all the money going to bonuses and dividends into the grid hardening that PG&E hasn't done.

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    My guess is we'll all be yelling at CalPowerTM within a month of takeover. I do think we should export options if only to light a fire under PGE.

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    No, they haven't. I'm certainly not advocating for state take over. But something needs to change and I don't think privatization is it, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hel Mot View Post
    Agreed. If a major concern is maintaining an aging infrastructure, has the state demonstrated that ability in other areas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    That’s my uncle
    Wow! Your uncle John "Grizzly" Adams died in 1860!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Wow! Your uncle John "Grizzly" Adams died in 1860!
    See, I told you PG&E's true motive was to make us say "uncle."

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    That’s my uncle

    The one on the left?
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Allan View Post
    Such a joke. We're like a third world country here when the wind blows. Thanks to our wonderful state energy regulatory commission that allowed PG and E to plow profits to shareholders instead of infrastructure we now get days long blackouts with the bonus of paying the highest energy rates in the country for that privilege. Can someone give me an example of anywhere else in the country besides this state that does the same thing?
    Not sure if any state does what CA does?

    Problem is strict liability, so a fire involving their equipment makes them strictly liable by law. No other state takes that approach.

    It isn’t that unreasonable so long as all the damage costs are socialized across all of the customers.

    But they aren’t, because the CPUC has prevented any recovery of the damage costs.

    So they have a system where the legal liability is let’s say “infinite” and the only way to stop the bleeding is to go out of business or turn off the power.


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    I mean, we can have a conversation about strict liability, but SCE and SDG&E are subject to the same standard and they're not bankrupt.

    They're also not convicted felons and probation violators about whom federal judges have said “PG&E pumped out $4.5 billion in dividends and let the tree budget wither" just this year.

    https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/j...trimming-trees

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Crawler View Post
    Sounds about right. So they have all the media outlets blast out to ~16 million customers to go check on-line if they will be affected. Crash goes the pge.com server(s). Great planning on their part, but I guess that's to be expected from them.
    Wow, they figured doubling the "database capacity" of the server would do it, I'm guessing even the 7-8 times normal traffic is off by a factor of 10 or more. That's likely only the few customers that could get through to the server. Supposedly they are launching a new site dedicated to serving just outage information. Any guess how well that'll work when first put on-line?

    From:
    https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/pge-...toff-underway/

    With PG&E’s Public Safety Power Shutoff underway Wednesday morning, for the second straight day the utility’s website is not accessible for customers to find out the latest information about the shutoff.

    For most of Tuesday, PGE’s website was down, and the utility had to post maps on Twitter of the affected portions of all 34 counties across the state that would be losing power. The site remained down as of shortly after 7 a.m. Wednesday.

    PG&E spokeswoman Kristi Jourdan said their teams had doubled the database capacity on the website earlier this week in anticipation for increased traffic, but that there is seven or eight times the normal traffic on the site.

    Jourdan said PG&E is continuing to work to increase server capacity and the number of customer requests the site can handle, as well as developing other ways to communicate outage information.

    “Our teams are fully engaged and working on multiple fronts to address the issue as quickly as we can,” she said.

  120. #120
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    Power is off at Skeggs. Luckily, Alice's has a generator!

    Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal-screen-shot-2019-10-10-12.36.53-am.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    I mean, we can have a conversation about strict liability, but SCE and SDG&E are subject to the same standard and they're not bankrupt.

    They're also not convicted felons and probation violators about whom federal judges have said “PG&E pumped out $4.5 billion in dividends and let the tree budget wither" just this year.

    https://www.kqed.org/news/11737336/j...trimming-trees
    Not yet.

    SDGE had at least a billion in insurance at time of 2007 witch fire. They burned through all of it—and it’s no longer affordable/available. And that was only part of damages.

    Just the other day the U.S. Supreme Court denied taking up SDGE appeal of the issue, so all of. the liability—no matter what—so long as their equipment involved is on their shareholders, if CPUC continues to deny recovery in rates.

    SCE has long had a practice of NOT attempting to remotely/automatically reclose a circuit in wildfire remote areas. When you reclose there can be arching which can spark a fire. The latter is why SDGE circuit was involved in the witch fire starting, basically they were trying to restore power.

    In any event, neither of those 2 companies has suffered the type of exposed damaged claims as PG&E, so they aren’t in bakruptcy yet. But all 3 companies are being downgraded significantly by ratings agency and will likely approach junk status soon.

    The market udnerstands that the CA government and policymakers has made the investors a bottomless pit, so the risk of investing has increased drmatically and all of the companies are likely to move into bankruptcy unless the reforms can restore investor confidence in the system.


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    Well, they turned off power for us around 11pm, despite a complete absence of any hint of wind.

    Still think this is only about "safety"?

    Power to UCSC is off (apart from backup systems), for those who asked.

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    How do I charge my ebike? Just kidding but La Selva has power But Aptos doesn’t it is like a snow day for the kids with nice weather. O well I am heading over the hill should be interesting...

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    I'm headed to Pogonip / UC now. I hope no access to the trails has been blocked...


    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    Well, they turned off power for us around 11pm, despite a complete absence of any hint of wind.

    Still think this is only about "safety"?

    Power to UCSC is off (apart from backup systems), for those who asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dopaminer_09 View Post
    I'm headed to Pogonip / UC now. I hope no access to the trails has been blocked...
    Trails are wide open. How would they block them? I drove by Twin Gates on Empire Grade twice this morning. Looks like a perfect day to ride (when it gets a wee bit warmer). There is a complete absence of wind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Not yet.

    SDGE had at least a billion in insurance at time of 2007 witch fire. They burned through all of it—and it’s no longer affordable/available. And that was only part of damages.

    Just the other day the U.S. Supreme Court denied taking up SDGE appeal of the issue, so all of. the liability—no matter what—so long as their equipment involved is on their shareholders, if CPUC continues to deny recovery in rates.

    SCE has long had a practice of NOT attempting to remotely/automatically reclose a circuit in wildfire remote areas. When you reclose there can be arching which can spark a fire. The latter is why SDGE circuit was involved in the witch fire starting, basically they were trying to restore power.

    In any event, neither of those 2 companies has suffered the type of exposed damaged claims as PG&E, so they aren’t in bakruptcy yet. But all 3 companies are being downgraded significantly by ratings agency and will likely approach junk status soon.

    The market udnerstands that the CA government and policymakers has made the investors a bottomless pit, so the risk of investing has increased drmatically and all of the companies are likely to move into bankruptcy unless the reforms can restore investor confidence in the system.


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    Yeah. I was following the SDG&E case.

    Still, like I said, we can have a conversation about changing the standard. There should be a discussion. But the fact remains that SCE and SDG&E have done a shit ton more work, comparatively, on making their systems more resilient in fire prone areas and historical system maintenance in general. Much more undergrounding and steel. Maybe it's because the WUI areas in Southern Cal were built out more recently than Northern Cal (in general). Not sure.

    Of course, if we change the liability standard, that opens up a whole new can of worms in the homeowner's insurance arena. Already reeling in the last several years, it would totally blow up. The same people pretty much end up on the hook either way.

    As previously noted, though, I don't understand why there's such a focus on the markets when
    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger
    PG&E's business model is going to be killed by distributed PV, cheaper batteries, and microgrids at some point anyway. Might as well rip the bandaid off earlier and invest all the money going to bonuses and dividends into the grid hardening that PG&E hasn't done.
    Same thing applies to SCE and SDG&E. The muni bond market and risk assessment is a lot different than private. And when not paying out dividends there's more available capital to cover liabilities and system upgrades. And, like I said, people either pay on the homeowner's insurance end, or pay on the utility end. To me the better argument is municipalization. I don't see the huge dollars needed to harden and modernize the grid coming from shareholders or private bondholders. And the public doesn't trust PG&E enough to send them billions in tax dollars.

  127. #127
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    I'm waiting for reasonable power battery options for home before I go all in on a micro-grid / off-grid type scenario. The current Tesla Powerwall will only power a house for a few hours as far as I have read. I would love to see something that can reasonable support a normal house (assuming w/o central air running) for a day or so before, for me, it's worth it.
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  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    I'm waiting for reasonable power battery options for home before I go all in on a micro-grid / off-grid type scenario. The current Tesla Powerwall will only power a house for a few hours as far as I have read. I would love to see something that can reasonable support a normal house (assuming w/o central air running) for a day or so before, for me, it's worth it.
    You have to stack them.

    I looked at going completely off-grid back in June or July when PG&E announced the widespread shutoffs.

    We have 5kw on the roof, no storage, and peak generation is like 3.8 kw just after 12pm. If I wanted to have worst-case-scenario coverage--e.g. running central air at night like we were in July/August 2018 when it was super hot and smoky at midnight--I'd need something like 30kwh of storage. That's $21,000 worth of LG Chem batteries before tax and install. If you do it now, you may be able to itemize it before the incentives go away (IIRC, the federal incentives are gone at the end of the year?), so you get 30% back?

    So not crazy money, but not cheap. Probably $40-50k rough math if you're starting from scratch. Edit: That's worst case scenario. If you don't need to run AC at night, then it'd be cheaper. In Vacaville, you get way way way more Delta Breeze than I do. So your usage pattern is certainly different.

    I'd say my usage numbers are pretty reasonable for the area. We have a largish home, but the AC is undersized and we're sparing with usage. (Funky layout with downstairs built into a hill and only central air upstairs, which is the main floor. Fully-separate second central heat for downstairs.) Have an Ecobee3 set up and set to reasonable temps.

    Our electricity bill at last true-up was $25 for the year. So, given that, I'd much sooner by a standby NG generator than go off-grid with batteries. It just doesn't pencil out financially right now.

    We'll see how things change in the next few years...

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Yeah. I was following the SDG&E case.

    Still, like I said, we can have a conversation about changing the standard. There should be a discussion. But the fact remains that SCE and SDG&E have done a shit ton more work, comparatively, on making their systems more resilient in fire prone areas and historical system maintenance in general. Much more undergrounding and steel. Maybe it's because the WUI areas in Southern Cal were built out more recently than Northern Cal (in general). Not sure.

    Of course, if we change the liability standard, that opens up a whole new can of worms in the homeowner's insurance arena. Already reeling in the last several years, it would totally blow up. The same people pretty much end up on the hook either way.

    As previously noted, though, I don't understand why there's such a focus on the markets when


    Same thing applies to SCE and SDG&E. The muni bond market and risk assessment is a lot different than private. And when not paying out dividends there's more available capital to cover liabilities and system upgrades. And, like I said, people either pay on the homeowner's insurance end, or pay on the utility end. To me the better argument is municipalization. I don't see the huge dollars needed to harden and modernize the grid coming from shareholders or private bondholders. And the public doesn't trust PG&E enough to send them billions in tax dollars.
    Agree on difference between Muni market v Investor.

    Still, Muni on that scale only works when you agree to be a Muni. It is the exception.

    My prior post too pessimistic but was trying to focus on institutional contribution to problem.

    So far market is cautiously okay with state reforms. So wait and see.

    There are other factors that contribute significantly to the risk. And those are in control of state and local government. From fuel management to local zoning. I doubt utilities facilities are main cause of wild fires. When I lived in SD the 2003 fires caused by a dumbass pothead Hunter. But to say it was just his fault is dangerous, as you start to ignore the other risk factors.

    Maybe he was launched into the ocean via catapult to satisfy public anger? Actually, he got slap on wrist and community service.

    If you are Muni or for profit, the investment so called experts think is needed to fire proof system is very large. If it were approached in terms of risk reduced per $ spent, across entire spectrum of options, there's less focus on utilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    If you are Muni or for profit, the investment so called experts think is needed to fire proof system is very large. If it were approached in terms of risk reduced per $ spent, across entire spectrum of options, there's less focus on utilities.
    Word. All fair comments. I recall the Cedar Fire. Close friend from college lost his family home in Scripps Ranch during that one. And then his parents had to evacuate their new house in Solana Beach west of I-5 during the Witch Fire. Some negligent fire starters get off lighter than others. Obviously different standard, but I remember when the Riverside County DA hung a capital conviction on the guy who started the Esperanza Fire. He's sitting on death row. Certain ignition sources are within our control. Others aren't. Can only control what we can control.

    In the quoted language above, I agree that the most effective dollars invested vs fire risk reduction probably doesn't lie with utilities. But I also think the argument in favor of municipalizing the utilities is much broader than that in terms of the changing business model of providing power and what's in consumers' best interest, though I definitely didn't really make that clear.

  131. #131
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    I think the long term answer is going to be a much more distributed electrical grid, with local generation, storage, maintenance and smaller distribution geographies. That, coupled with individual users generating and storing electricity, will make us all more independent from the big utility providers.
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  132. #132
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    I think my power just came back on in Mill Valley

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  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    I think the long term answer is going to be a much more distributed electrical grid, with local generation, storage, maintenance and smaller distribution geographies. That, coupled with individual users generating and storing electricity, will make us all more independent from the big utility providers.
    Could be, but that is an astoundingly expensive approach and again it only looks at one thing, electrical equipment, with respect to wild fires.

    I am not being argumentative here, just pointing out that all the backup gens, and small home batteries, are anything but environmentally friendly. They are only “solutions” when the problem is that you live on an island or in outback, or the yukon...as they are more in the money because the otherwise “normal’ is outrageously expensive.


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  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrkrft69 View Post
    I think my power just came back on in Mill Valley

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    That sounds funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Could be, but that is an astoundingly expensive approach and again it only looks at one thing, electrical equipment, with respect to wild fires.

    I am not being argumentative here, just pointing out that all the backup gens, and small home batteries, are anything but environmentally friendly. They are only “solutions” when the problem is that you live on an island or in outback, or the yukon...as they are more in the money because the otherwise “normal’ is outrageously expensive.


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    So get this, according to CalFire data, electrical causes started almost 75% of the big destructive wildland fires in CA. Some of that light blue has been confirmed in the 10 months since he posted that data
    https://twitter.com/MichaelWWara/sta...448894465?s=19

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  136. #136
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    The local air pollution from generators around here is really unpleasant, especailly since there is absolutely NO WIND to disperse the carbon monoxide and exhaust fumes.

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    So get this, according to CalFire data, electrical causes started almost 75% of the big destructive wildland fires in CA. Some of that light blue has been confirmed in the 10 months since he posted that data
    https://twitter.com/MichaelWWara/sta...448894465?s=19

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    That’s interesting—thanks!

    It is the type of data that leads to ask more questions? For example, the electric could be correlated with housing development. But those are risk factors.

    I also wonder if the strict liability/inverse condemnation law “encourages” the state to include electric equipment as cause?

    On the housing issue, other data I have seen across western states suggests that the biggest risk factor is from development into areas that have higher fire risk.


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    This is an interesting video on large fires over western U.S. Gets more at the land management/fuel aspect.

    It is a multi-faceted problem, and even if there were some fudging towards electric on the suspected causes, doesn’t matter that much as electric is still a significant source of ignition.

    But focusing only on ignition source, a big insurance fund, and ignoring other risk factors may not do enough to address the problem.

    In San Diego, for example, be interesting to know if all of the money spent addressing just the electric system has significantly reduced risk?

    for example, it may be that the area is so much smaller AND that 2 massive fires in 2003, 2007, burned a huge chunk of available fuel, that the risk is now lower primarily due to a. Perverse “fuel management” policy

    https://youtu.be/edDZNkm8Mas


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  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    The local air pollution from generators around here is really unpleasant, especailly since there is absolutely NO WIND to disperse the carbon monoxide and exhaust fumes.
    I put mine in my kitchen. Problem solvezzzzzzzzzz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I put mine in my kitchen. Problem solvezzzzzzzzzz
    That's a great idea. The exhaust fan over the stove should carry away most of the fumes.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    An estimated $1 million per mile
    They have 81000 miles of above-ground lines.

    Do you think the estimate of $810 billion dollars to upgrade their infrastructure to the standards of the rest of the country is perhaps just a tad misleading?

  142. #142
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    At least they know how to live it up:

    PG&E gas employees wined and dined just before mass power outages

    https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...e-14512194.php

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    https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/10/...c-gas-electric

    Over 2 million people have lost power.

    Lives are threatened for those will medical equipment.

    CA is a disaster.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    They have 81000 miles of above-ground lines.

    Do you think the estimate of $810 billion dollars to upgrade their infrastructure to the standards of the rest of the country is perhaps just a tad misleading?
    Don't know where they got their numbers from but $1 million per mile at 81,000 miles is $81 billion, which is still unaffordable. But you don't need to do the entire system either.

    $1 million per mile has to be average for distribution line.

    Underground a transmission line is really the exception and usually due to aesthetics or only way to do it in dense urban. Those are usually far more expensive per mile, take much longer to complete, and have much shorter life.

    Still, you could make underground distribution the norm for new subdivisions in designated at risk areas, and for rebuilds in areas destroyed by fires.

    When I lived in San Diego city had a program of undergrounding distribution lines over long term by community. SDG&E was doing it, but there was an extra charge for city residents for work. That was entirely for aesthetics back then but probably is championed now as fire safety.

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    Only speaking for Marin, but I bet people would complain and file lawsuits against under-grounding because of the massive hassle and impacts. These would be the same people mad about the shuts off by the way. I've never see so many complainers as on my Nextdoor, they can't handle anything at all.

  146. #146
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    I just looked up the PG&E rates--wow!

    How does anyone inland afford that?

    Probably start charging all solar customers a $50 per month charge, just to make normal rates affordable.

    What a mess!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Only speaking for Marin, but I bet people would complain and file lawsuits against under-grounding because of the massive hassle and impacts. These would be the same people mad about the shuts off by the way. I've never see so many complainers as on my Nextdoor, they can't handle anything at all.
    Was having a convo with a buddy who lives in Nevada City area. We were talking about the political angles on the big shutdown move. Obviously there's the public facing "we need this shutoff for public safety" angle. Then there's the "we need this shutoff to pressure the legislature to change things to ease our liability risk" angle.

    The third one he mentioned that I had not thought about was the "we need this shutoff to make your average member of the public less resistant to easement disturbances so we can underground more lines" angle. Interesting point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I just looked up the PG&E rates--wow!

    How does anyone inland afford that?

    Probably start charging all solar customers a $50 per month charge, just to make normal rates affordable.

    What a mess!

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    Yep.

    Problem is grandfathering. IIRC, my solar system is grandfathered for significantly longer than the five years mentioned in this article: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/10/...new-tou-rates/

    Of course, I don't really have a sense of what percentage of customers have solar, have solar predating the last new TOU rate setting, etc. I do seem to recall that new solar installs are forced onto a 4-9pm peak rate whereas I'm grandfathered in on the 3-8pm rate and I think older solar systems have an even more favorable TOU. (My system was installed in 2016.)

    That extra hour of higher rates between 8 and 9pm is pretty huge.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Yep.

    Problem is grandfathering. IIRC, my solar system is grandfathered for significantly longer than the five years mentioned in this article: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/10/...new-tou-rates/

    Of course, I don't really have a sense of what percentage of customers have solar, have solar predating the last new TOU rate setting, etc. I do seem to recall that new solar installs are forced onto a 4-9pm peak rate whereas I'm grandfathered in on the 3-8pm rate and I think older solar systems have an even more favorable TOU. (My system was installed in 2016.)

    That extra hour of higher rates between 8 and 9pm is pretty huge.
    I am not criticizing you here, as the government sets those rules and you should take advantage of them if you can.

    But it’s a terribly inequitable public policy. the solar leasers run around trying to skim every kwh off the higher tiers when they had the 4-5 tier system.

    All those unavoided costs got shifted to lower income folks.

    Maybe the solar folks can pay for a higher share of the fire hardening costs, just to even things out somewhat?

    Again, what a mess!


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  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    so many complainers as on my Nextdoor, they can't handle anything at all.
    Like this guy?

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/...power-outages/

  151. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    That sounds funny.
    I wasn't there when it came on so I wasn't totally sure. What was funny was running a generator in my side yard for 48hrs to keep my fridge and my neighbors fridge on.

    I wonder if PG&E thought about the potential hazards of portable generators running unsupervised all over the place with gas cans nearby. . .

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  152. #152
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    All the gas fumes (and dry air no doubt) made my nose bleed.

  153. #153
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    I wonder how many people supporting PG&E here didn’t lose power?

    I don’t know if they shut it off as a eff-u to the people behind the previous lawsuits. Or if it was truly 100% because of the wind. I’m not high enough on any food chain to ever find out I suppose.

    I lost power early and got it back damn near last. It sucked but I was somewhat capable of handling my business.

    This has been an interesting discussion. Just thinking about human nature. Did the pro energy company folks her lose power? I bet there are some chining in from other states for sure.
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  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrkrft69 View Post
    I wasn't there when it came on so I wasn't totally sure. What was funny was running a generator in my side yard for 48hrs to keep my fridge and my neighbors fridge on.

    I wonder if PG&E thought about the potential hazards of portable generators running unsupervised all over the place with gas cans nearby. . .

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    Yeah, I assumed you weren't around when power was restored -it just sounded funny the way it was written.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    I wonder how many people supporting PG&E here didn’t lose power?

    I don’t know if they shut it off as a eff-u to the people behind the previous lawsuits. Or if it was truly 100% because of the wind. I’m not high enough on any food chain to ever find out I suppose.

    I lost power early and got it back damn near last. It sucked but I was somewhat capable of handling my business.

    This has been an interesting discussion. Just thinking about human nature. Did the pro energy company folks her lose power? I bet there are some chining in from other states for sure.
    Everyone may be better served if political leaders and consumer advocates tone down the political rhetoric. Wait, had power stayed on and another large fire occurred the same people would be asking for their heads politically, so it’s really a “win” for them not matter the outcome.

    In the non-political realm, It’s a no win situation right now.

    The problem/risk needs to be addressed on broader fronts, not just at the electric utility.


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    Excerpt below from a decent article on topic, with link to full article:


    https://www.hoover.org/research/new-...at-do-about-it

    California’s Choice

    Fires that take place in the WUI, different as they are from traditional wildfires, can play a role in increasing firefighting costs. Last year’s fires set a state record for firefighting costs, which have steadily taken up a larger and larger chunk of spending over the years.

    Since 2007, the amount Cal Fire has set aside for emergency spending has risen from $92 million to over $400 million—and firefighting expenses have gone over budget in nine of the past ten years. The think tank Headwater Economics has estimated that fourteen percent of the available WUI area in eleven Western U.S. states is currently developed, and if just half of the remaining WUI area were developed, “annual firefighting costs could escalate to $4.3 billion per year.” While the main goal of fire management is protecting people’s lives and safety, a 2007 audit of U.S. Forest Service expenditures found that a majority of firefighting costs go directly towards “protecting private property in the WUI.”

    In light of the accelerating risk and cost of fires in the WUI, California has a choice. The state can get serious about reducing wildfire risk—or not. Policy recommendations to reduce California’s risk include: updating the state’s map of fire hazard zones on a regular, frequent basis and incorporating the effects of future climate change on fire risk when designating fire hazard zones; regularly monitoring compliance and increasing enforcement of building codes with special attention to fire prevention measures in very-high-risk fire hazard severity zones; developing firefighter response time thresholds based on WUI-specific exposures and vulnerabilities; increasing outreach to homeowners regarding their risks and incorporating scientifically informed knowledge of wildfires into public awareness information regarding the risk of fires in the WUI; exploring the creation of incentive mechanisms to increase fire prevention measures in older homes such as replacement of wood shake roofs and wooden soffits; exploring the creation of incentive mechanisms to reduce further development in at-risk areas; increasing WUI firefighting training; improving early warning systems to inform residents of fires; and establishing clear evacuation routes and designing communities to ensure multiple ingress and egress routes.

    Wildfire has always been a part of the California landscape. When Spanish conquistadores first glimpsed the coast of modern-day Los Angeles on October 8th, 1542, they likely expected some clear sign of prosperity. Perhaps the mythical glimmer of the Seven Cities of Gold or the fabled Strait of Anián that could carry ships through to Asia.

    Instead, the Spanish encountered a pall of smoke that billowed up from raging wildfires on land and hung like a shroud over the blackened sky. They named the place where they laid anchor the “Bay of Smoke.” Hundreds of years later, on the exact same day, October 8th, the Tubbs Fire ignited and began its tear across California’s wine country.

    Devastating fires are nothing new in California state history, and from everything we know, they will remain a constant force. However, a future filled with more and more destructive wildfires, each outdoing the last, is not inevitable. The state can make choices now that will help keep it safer in the future.

    Alice C. Hill is a Hoover Institution research fellow specializing in building resilience to destabilize catastrophic events, including the impacts of climate change. Prior to joining Hoover, she served as Special Assistant to President Obama and Senior Director for Resilience for the National Security Council.

    William Kakenmaster is a Hoover Institution research assistant. A graduate of American University, he was editor-in-chief of the school’s research journal, Clocks and Clouds, and founder and executive editor of its undergraduate policy magazine, the World Mind.



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    "Like this guy?

    https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10/...power-outages/"

    This death is now not blamed.
    https://abc7news.com/officials-say-n...tages/5611878/

    I realize this was a terrible solution to preventable problem, I just think it is better than a burn out.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    I wonder how many people supporting PG&E here didn’t lose power?

    I don’t know if they shut it off as a eff-u to the people behind the previous lawsuits. Or if it was truly 100% because of the wind. I’m not high enough on any food chain to ever find out I suppose.

    I lost power early and got it back damn near last. It sucked but I was somewhat capable of handling my business.

    This has been an interesting discussion. Just thinking about human nature. Did the pro energy company folks her lose power? I bet there are some chining in from other states for sure.
    We live in the Santa Cruz mountains, and during winter storms frequently lose power, sometimes for many days at a time. It isn't enjoyable, but it is a consequence of harsh weather conditions, so we suck it up and make the best of it, and run our generator.

    This was different because we lost power for what appears to be politically-motivated reasons. The air was absolutely dead-calm the whole time. I assume it was windy further north, but they didn't even wait for the wind to kick up to turn off the power. They've installed anemometers on the poles, so they can measure the wind speed. This was an arbitrary decision.
    Last edited by wgscott; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:29 AM. Reason: spelling error

  159. #159
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    Another potential round of shutoffs Wed-Thurs though it doesn't look likely:

    https://www.pge.com/en_US/safety/eme...ather-map.page
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  160. #160
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    I was surprised this could go on for 10 years. I was willing to give them a year or two, but this is crazy.

  161. #161
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    Strongly suspect that it will be more targeted next time. And smaller and smaller areas over time as they continue hardening the grid and segmenting it. That's what the PG&E execs said last week. Generally makes sense, though it never should have come to where we are.

    Like said upthread, SCE and SDG&E do these, but they're more on top of their stuff.

    Meanwhile, we're keeping the generator I bought but didn't end up using. May dump it in a couple years if they get back to only doing them in the Sac Valley Northern Foothills and North Bay.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I was surprised this could go on for 10 years. I was willing to give them a year or two, but this is crazy.
    Yeah, that's absolutely unacceptable.
    Work smarter AND harder.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Strongly suspect that it will be more targeted next time. And smaller and smaller areas over time as they continue hardening the grid and segmenting it. That's what the PG&E execs said last week. Generally makes sense, though it never should have come to where we are.
    Was at a party over the weekend and chattin with a guy who retired from PG&E awhile back and who's wife still works there. He was of the opinion that they absolutely have the capability of doing better targeting and smaller, more isolated shutdowns. He also believes that the last one was a bit of an FU to Norcal.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  164. #164
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  165. #165
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    We got the notice yesterday to expect another outage starting wends lasting into thursday, no specific times given.

  166. #166
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    Looks like a quarter of the number of customers as last time. Still sucks for those folks in the crosshairs.

    Another one on Sunday, potentially. General dry offshore flow regime looks to continue next week as well.

  167. #167
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    In the last outage:
    - PG&E website said my address wasn't going to be impacted
    - Didn't receive any notice from PG&E on outage

    But still lost power for 22 hrs. Oakland.
    Live to Ride, Ride to Live

  168. #168
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    dont worry!! i just bought my own generator, which will virtually GUARANTEE that the North-bay power will never get cut off again.
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
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  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    dont worry!! i just bought my own generator, which will virtually GUARANTEE that the North-bay power will never get cut off again.
    Yes. Now, would you wash your car so we can get some rain?
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Yes. Now, would you wash your car so we can get some rain?
    or i could do some real damage and buy some Google stocks.
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
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  171. #171
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    What kind of generator did you end up getting?

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    What kind of generator did you end up getting?
    Honda EU2200i. It’s enough for my needs and it’s easy to store and move about. The 3000 is a behemoth
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
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  173. #173
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    I’m still waiting for the power to go out...please sweet baby Jesus, make the power go out...especially my neighbors; their exterior lights are always on, blasting right into our house. Please make the power go out.
    Last edited by Dark Meat; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:16 PM. Reason: more jesus

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I’m still waiting for the power to go out...please sweet baby Jesus, make the power go out...especially my neighbors; their exterior lights are always on, blasting right into our house. Please make the power go out.
    Haha.
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  175. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I’m still waiting for the power to go out...please sweet baby Jesus, make the power go out...especially my neighbors; their exterior lights are always on, blasting right into our house. Please make the power go out.
    If it doesn't, BB gun?

    But seriously, can't you go ask them to turn them off? I'm super conscientious about that in our back yard. Sometimes my wife will let the dog in and forget to turn off the back porch light. It always bugs me to think that the neighbors might be bothered by it.
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

  176. #176
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    Unscrew the bulb and coat the thread in wax or carbon assembly paste before putting it back in.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    If it doesn't, BB gun?

    But seriously, can't you go ask them to turn them off? I'm super conscientious about that in our back yard. Sometimes my wife will let the dog in and forget to turn off the back porch light. It always bugs me to think that the neighbors might be bothered by it.
    They are new tenants...our neighbors of 16 years decided to rent their home, and flee the Bay Area...I haven’t met the new people yet.

  178. #178
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    This is a good read on hows, the whys and what needs to be done to fix this mess. Including addressing all the knee jerk reactions with actual information.

    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-insurance-pge

    PG&E has 250,000 miles of power lines... yeow!

    P

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    This is a good read on hows, the whys and what needs to be done to fix this mess. Including addressing all the knee jerk reactions with actual information.

    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-insurance-pge

    PG&E has 250,000 miles of power lines... yeow!

    P
    Roberts has been one of the most, if not THE most, sharp pop-science writers out there for years on energy, climate, and enviro stuff. I used to read him when he was still at Grist. Guy is smart.

  180. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    This is a good read on hows, the whys and what needs to be done to fix this mess. Including addressing all the knee jerk reactions with actual information.

    https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...-insurance-pge

    PG&E has 250,000 miles of power lines... yeow!

    P
    That was a good article, thanks for posting.

    Minor comment on the comparison to SDG&E, it is tiny, miniscule, compared to PG&E, so it can give the impression that it is way ahead. But SDG&E had devastating fires prior to PG&E, so it isn't like SDG&E was more forward thinking.

    These companies are heavily regulated. Had they proposed spending this kind of money 20 years ago (during energy crisis) it would have been laughed at by regulators.

    These types of backward looking problems, where everyone suddenly knows the solutions, only get addressed once their is a crisis.

    PG&E is physically and geographically massive. There is no easy/quick/cheap "solution.". If one is counting on infrastructure investment by PG_E as solution, it will take multiple decades, and be very costly.

    Rates will go sky high, but it's just a prelude to what is going to happen to rates and reliability with 100% renewables. Good luck.

    Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

  181. #181
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  182. #182
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    We were out for another 24h, expect another outage soon. Never got so much use out of USB battery banks

  183. #183
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    Where are you at? They claim the wind could be worse than October 2017. 5.4 million households may go down this time. I'm wishing I'd got the generator now.

  184. #184
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    We're in Grass Valley, there's still people out near 5 mile house.

  185. #185
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    For charging portable devices such as USB chargeable items: many vehicles have a live USB port when the vehicle is not in use. Could be helpful to keep a phone or batteries or lights plugged in while not in use.
    I think some vehicles also have a 110v port in them but no idea if they are live.
    Some F-150's have 110v, plus the truck bed may have a 110v outlet if the cab doesn't.


    How many people have been affected over this past week. It's been breezy up north of the bay but not bad.

    Local weather says the weekend can bring 50 - 60 mph gusts.
    Is the bay also expecting those crazy winds and gusts through the weekend?

  186. #186
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    I’m called to work 12 hours tomorrow getting intersection traffic lights up. Great.
    Santa Cruz 5010 C
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  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post


    How many people have been affected over this past week. It's been breezy up north of the bay but not bad.

    Local weather says the weekend can bring 50 - 60 mph gusts.
    Is the bay also expecting those crazy winds and gusts through the weekend?
    The wind on Wednesday night up by us was definitely intense, the amount of debris coming off the trees was road covering on a lot of side roads, no joke it was like snow in some of the heavier spots coming home.

    We are expected to loose power again tomorrow. I went for a ride today and talked to a few shop owners who are expecting the worst. Our local market has 2 full size refrigerated semi trailers up and running out back already. The attitude is definitely be prepared

  188. #188
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    Be careful if you're in a boom truck!

  189. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    For charging portable devices such as USB chargeable items: many vehicles have a live USB port when the vehicle is not in use. Could be helpful to keep a phone or batteries or lights plugged in while not in use.
    I think some vehicles also have a 110v port in them but no idea if they are live.
    Some F-150's have 110v, plus the truck bed may have a 110v outlet if the cab doesn't.


    How many people have been affected over this past week. It's been breezy up north of the bay but not bad.

    Local weather says the weekend can bring 50 - 60 mph gusts.
    Is the bay also expecting those crazy winds and gusts through the weekend?
    These are awesome: https://www.harborfreight.com/10000-...ank-64488.html
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  190. #190
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    If they leave the high voltage lines on to service eg hospitals, schools, downtown areas, etc, as they are doing, they are making the assumption that residential power lines are the main problem, rather than high-voltage lines. Seems like Healdsberg fire refutes that assumption.

    I'm back to thinking this is a combination shake-down and kabuki play.

    OTOH, I took my wife out for a birthday dinner last night. We got what must have been triple portions at the sushi place we went to. They must be taking a huge loss. The place was packed with opportunistic vultures.

    For us, it is a comparatively minor inconvenience.

  191. #191
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    Slight dip in the winds on Monday night, but it ramps up again on Tue/Wed.
    I wonder if they will keep the power off 'till Thursday.
    A lot of downed power lines right now.
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    Planned Power Shut Off in parts of NorCal-angwin-wind-map.jpg

  192. #192
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    Our local rag (Santa Cruz Senile) is saying that they probably will keep it off.

    (We got some very moderate winds around 2:30 am in the SC "mountains").

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