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  1. #1
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    The Norcal post-ride DUI

    Don't want to be a Debbie downer bringing up a sobering topic but:


    So I was at the Skeggs- club ride on Wednesday. A good friend said he was not drinking beer and I asked why. He said he got a post-ride DUI on Highway 85 on Dec 27. Two and half good beers for his 170lb body got him to .08 blood/alcohol level.
    His life has been turned upside down with $7k expenses so far, jail, pending trial and 20 days of labor possible. I talked to him for 20 minutes and got all the details.

    Things I learned:

    - 2 .5 IPAs, post-ride got him to .08 level
    - 6 months of misery until it's all behind him
    - about 20 days of duty, usually labor clean-up. Community service will be around double that since easier work
    - CHP treated him like a career criminal
    - the longer you wait for the breathalyzer test, the more your blood alcohol rises for about 3 hours
    - after Jan 1, 2019, they need to install an expensive breathalyzer device on your car to start it.
    - can take away your license on the spot, before trial
    - Just because you're under .08, doesn't mean you're in the clear.

    So this is just a share of what I learned a couple days ago. If you have more info to add/correct, please do so. It is a tough subject since it's part of what we do... ie, me.

    We try to drink responsibly and this is the first-case (that I know of) in my circle. The shame/guilt is intense so I'm glad he shared with me.

    Thoughts?

    Last edited by fc; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:44 AM.
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  2. #2
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    You're not being Debbie downer, this is a wake up call for everyone. Drive sober, or get pulled over.

    There are many threads around here about bad drivers coming too close to cyclist, my biggest fear riding on open roads is a drunk driver.

    Enjoy a beer after a ride, sure. But save the 6er for when you get home.

  3. #3
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    I had a DUI years ago, I stopped drinking if there was any chance of driving that day, and 2 years ago, stopped all together. Now that I'm mountain biking, I will say that a beer after sounds REALLY good. I may have one after a ride at some point, but I won't be getting behind the wheel if I do.

    The device you're referring to on the car is an IID, Ignition Interupter Device. I haven't had one but know someone who does have one and not only is it embarrassing and a PITA, but you have to pay a monthly fee for it, have it checked and info downloaded from it regularly at a certified station (which aren't necessarily local to the user), and just working on the car around it can set off it's tamper alarm which risks the user going to jail without collecting $200.

    DUI's are no bueno.

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    The threshold for DUI, 0.08 BAC, is pretty low. It's not intended to ensnare people who are drunk, but people whose facilities are impaired.

    The conventional wisdom in Texas, where MADD started all this enhanced enforcement and punishment, is to refuse the breathalyzer. This will result in an automatic license suspension (it's coming anyway), but the breathalyzer/intoxilyzer is a notoriously inaccurate instrument.

    Without the breathalyzer, they will have to draw blood, which will yield an accurate measurement. If you're dookfaced, it doesn't matter, but if you're close it could be critical. And sometimes they don't get around to it, so they're left with the video evidence, which if you arent a staggering fool, can make for a plea or dismissal.

    I suppose that DUI needed to be taken more seriously, but the side effect of all of this is that there is now a crimino-industrial profit complex surrounding DUI arrests.
    Last edited by TwiceHorn; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:29 AM.

  5. #5
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    and you cant go to whistler anymore

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    Of course. But the point is, .08 really isn't "not sober". If you are a full grown man and can't drive 100% safely after 1.5 beers, the alcohol isn't your problem.

    But that's why I just live in the city. I never have to drive period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    You're not being Debbie downer, this is a wake up call for everyone. Drive sober, or get pulled over.

    There are many threads around here about bad drivers coming too close to cyclist, my biggest fear riding on open roads is a drunk driver.

    Enjoy a beer after a ride, sure. But save the 6er for when you get home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post

    I suppose that DUI needed to be taken more seriously, but the side effect of all of this is that there is now a crimino-industrial profit complex surrounding DUI arrests.
    Agreed, and does NOT stop career drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel.

    Here there are ever more homeless types driving around in trash heaps without even a plate much less the requisite insurance etc. Allocation of resources and serving the public interest are not mutually inclusive.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Of course. But the point is, .08 really isn't "not sober". If you are a full grown man and can't drive 100% safely after 1.5 beers, the alcohol isn't your problem.
    I get that, but its the law that we all have to abide by. Buzzed driving is drunk driving.

    Whats really bothering me though is who is drinking 1.5 beers? Was the beer shared?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    and you cant go to whistler anymore
    That's right huh? No more Canada. Holy moly!!!

    I might have to break the news to our buddy since he's a Whistler regular.
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    Utah just lowered to .05 and California is considering it too. Many other countries are at .05. Best to go home and drink.

  11. #11
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    So I will weigh in here a bit as I know all about DUI stops. First .08 is the legal limit but you can still be popped for DUI under that limit if you are impaired. Most of the time, there are driving indicators that alert us to stopping you. Once you're stopped, pretty easy to detect alcohol. From the point that you are suspected of being under the influence, the officer will have you do sobriety tests. They usually do 4-5 tests. While they are doing this, they are waiting for 15 minutes to elapse. You BAC will either go up or down depending on how long ago you had your last drink. They will have you blow into a PAS device which gives a preliminary result. You then can choose another blood or breath test when you are taken to a place called AIB (alcohol intoxication bureau). They have a fancy breath machine or a blood tech will come and take blood from you. If you choose blood, you are going to jail for sure. This is because they can't tell your exact level but the PAS and driving indicators are enough probable cause to arrest and book you. If you choose breath, you might blow below a .08. If that happens, you MAY be released and 849(b)'d which is like it erases the arrest. You still may be booked because you sucked so badly at driving and even .06 impaired the hell out of you. You will receive a temporary license after your arrest because we keep your actual ID. If you refuse to do any of the tests, your license is automatically suspended for 1 year. The laws and punishments have changed but expect almost $10k and crappy times ahead. IPA's can have 10% ABV in them and that is a lot! It takes time for your body to rid itself of alcohol. My final piece of advice is don't be a d*ck, just limit yourself or wait till you drive.
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    2 1/2 strong beers, no wonder. Since I live near the trails I'll have a couple of 20oz pints and ride home, but my buddies that drive will have 1 only. If I am driving I limit myself to 1 12 oz beer.

    10 years ago I had the opportunity to travel to New Zealand, rented a car and a bike and had a hell of a good time. 2nd day there I found the trailhead and met a couple of locals on the ride. The gave me a post ride beer and I was stopped on the way back to the room. The cops setup on a road and stopped everyone. I had to talk into the device and was $hitting bricks because of the 1 beer. Logically I knew I was ok, but couldn't help it. Anyway, I was fine and continued on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post

    So this is just a share of what I learned a couple days ago. If you have more info to add/correct, please do so. It is a tough subject since it's part of what we do... ie, me.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but if you and your buddies are drinking and driving please do me a favor and go get your asses thrown in jail so you don't run me over. I don't care if you're a mountain biker or a homeless guy pushing a shopping cart.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmarshall View Post
    So I will weigh in here a bit as I know all about DUI stops. First .08 is the legal limit but you can still be popped for DUI under that limit if you are impaired. Most of the time, there are driving indicators that alert us to stopping you. Once you're stopped, pretty easy to detect alcohol. From the point that you are suspected of being under the influence, the officer will have you do sobriety tests. They usually do 4-5 tests. While they are doing this, they are waiting for 15 minutes to elapse. You BAC will either go up or down depending on how long ago you had your last drink. They will have you blow into a PAS device which gives a preliminary result. You then can choose another blood or breath test when you are taken to a place called AIB (alcohol intoxication bureau). They have a fancy breath machine or a blood tech will come and take blood from you. If you choose blood, you are going to jail for sure. This is because they can't tell your exact level but the PAS and driving indicators are enough probable cause to arrest and book you. If you choose breath, you might blow below a .08. If that happens, you MAY be released and 849(b)'d which is like it erases the arrest. You still may be booked because you sucked so badly at driving and even .06 impaired the hell out of you. You will receive a temporary license after your arrest because we keep your actual ID. If you refuse to do any of the tests, your license is automatically suspended for 1 year. The laws and punishments have changed but expect almost $10k and crappy times ahead. IPA's can have 10% ABV in them and that is a lot! It takes time for your body to rid itself of alcohol. My final piece of advice is don't be a d*ck, just limit yourself or wait till you drive.
    thank you, thank you.

    And thanks all for sharing in and keeping it friendly.
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  15. #15
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    Keep chiming in and perhaps I can write an Mtbr story on it.

    fc
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    Good cautionary tale for the rest of us. I usually ride in SC, then drive back over Hwy 17 (full of po-po and bad drivers). If I go out post-ride for food/beer and the beer is a 12-ounce pour, then I'll have one. If the beer is 16 ounce, then I'll have a half pour. Just not worth taking the chance.
    Ride fast. Huck bravely. Waste no beer. Safety third.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I get that, but its the law that we all have to abide by. Buzzed driving is drunk driving.

    Whats really bothering me though is who is drinking 1.5 beers? Was the beer shared?
    "Beers" referes to the total alcohol consumption. A pint of a 9% beer is a lot different than a 5% beer.

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    If he was gonna get a DUI anyway he should have just finished that 3rd beer!
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  19. #19
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    Thank you for sharing this last night at the Gap as well as bringing it up here. I quit drinking two years ago from mental health reasons stemming for a giant transition related breakdown and suicide attempts, but there were a lot of nights out riding where I was very much driving home postride a LOT less sober than I should have been. Its a major wakeup call and I think a lot of us have been just narrowly avoiding having to this happen to ourselves.
    It took my little brother getting a DUI a few years ago before he figured out that it was a bad idea.

    A lot of us are very fortunate that was haven't had to learn this lesson first hand, or had bodily harm happen to ourselves or to others as a result of our actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    I hope I'm misunderstanding you, but if you and your buddies are drinking and driving please do me a favor and go get your asses thrown in jail so you don't run me over. I don't care if you're a mountain biker or a homeless guy pushing a shopping cart.

    Oh sh**! Everybody, SCATTER! Theyíre here!

    The Norcal post-ride DUI-25240418-9006-460d-8fc1-4a7e2d8101eb.jpeg

    ... are you suggesting an adult canít enjoy a post ride beverage without becoming a major danger to le public?
    Last edited by Shartist; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:17 AM. Reason: Trying to get photo to show up
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    This got me thinking. Check this out:

    https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    Thank you for sharing this last night at the Gap as well as bringing it up here. I quit drinking two years ago from mental health reasons stemming for a giant transition related breakdown and suicide attempts, but there were a lot of nights out riding where I was very much driving home postride a LOT less sober than I should have been. Its a major wakeup call and I think a lot of us have been just narrowly avoiding having to this happen to ourselves.
    It took my little brother getting a DUI a few years ago before he figured out that it was a bad idea.

    A lot of us are very fortunate that was haven't had to learn this lesson first hand, or had bodily harm happen to ourselves or to others as a result of our actions.
    Thank you for this. Really cool to see you out there again.

    I post a lot of ride beer sessions. And hey, I was going to launch beerreview.com. So it's good to get this message out.

    I went vegetarian last year and it reduced my beer endurance significantly. I've been more aware of late.

    I try to drive well post-ride but I sometimes wonder... "if I get stopped now, will I pass the DUI scrutiny."

    My buddy who got the DUI said he looked and felt fine. He stopped on the road to take a leak. And that's when the conversation with po-po started.
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    One suggestion is to go with lighter ABV beers, sure we all like double, triple, quad IPA's etc... but there are so many damned good lagers, blondes, saisons, Belgian singles etc... out there right now, why not branch out and have a post-ride session beer and save the big boys for home?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Don't want to be a Debbie downer bringing up a sobering topic but:

    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    You are not being a debbie downer; this is an important reminder and wake up call for all of us.

    I LOVE beer, especially post-ride. But for my light welterweight, the most I'll have after a ride is a lager or session, washed down with a gatorade and at least a bottle of water. Just enough to refresh, but nowhere close to being buzzed, even lightly. Too much at stakes!
    Solo & Ala Carte ~ that's how I like my bikes.

  25. #25
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    I have been very very lucky over the years and have chilled out quite a bit. I still drink a beer during nearly every ride. The 2+ liters of H2O I also drink per ride should help. RE: what pmarshall said above, how do LEOs feel about people who assert that they are not legally required to do any roadside theatrics (walking in a straight line, etc.), nor submit to a hand-held breathalyzer during a stop and politely decline? I realize that at that point you're getting a ride to the station, but the odds of a better eventual outcome are statistically better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeKay View Post
    You are not being a debbie downer; this is an important reminder and wake up call for all of us.

    I LOVE beer, especially post-ride. But for my light welterweight, the most I'll have after a ride is a lager or session, washed down with a gatorade and at least a bottle of water. Just enough to refresh, but nowhere close to being buzzed, even lightly. Too much at stakes!
    Remember, even Bud light is 5% ABV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    I have been very very lucky over the years and have chilled out quite a bit. I still drink a beer during nearly every ride. The 2+ liters of H2O I also drink per ride should help. RE: what pmarshall said above, how do LEOs feel about people who assert that they are not legally required to do any roadside theatrics (walking in a straight line, etc.), nor submit to a hand-held breathalyzer during a stop and politely decline? I realize that at that point you're getting a ride to the station, but the odds of a better eventual outcome are statistically better.
    Now you're thinkin' like a criminal defense attorney. If you blow a .08+ on the PAS, you're going to get a ride to the station anyway. Declining the PAS and the FSTs doesn't count as a "refusal" for the mandatory 1 year license suspension.

    Nobody passes the field sobriety tests if the officer doesn't want them to pass the field sobriety tests. They're as much about following instructions as they are about having the balance and dexterity to "pass" the tests. For instance, did you know there's a distinction between the "pads" and the "tips" of your fingers?

    Aaaaand, most "DUI attorneys" are hot garbage and will drastically overcharge. When you get arrested for DUI, you'll probably get a bunch of letters from DUI attorneys in the mail a couple days later. Hiring an attorney from a bulk mailer is about as good a decision as buying anything you see advertised in junk mail.

    All that said, I'm with ohmygato (for the most part) -- DON'T DRIVE IMPAIRED, SLEEPY, TEXTING, etc. Especially out on the curvy roads with cyclists on the shoulders. A ****up when you're sober is something your car insurance can probably handle, a ****up after a couple beers and you may see a real prison and get to live with the guilt of killing someone for the rest of your life.

    And fc -- your buddy can probably still go to Whistler, but it may require an immigration attorney and applying for a visa well in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Agreed, and does NOT stop career drunk drivers from getting behind the wheel.

    Here there are ever more homeless types driving around in trash heaps without even a plate much less the requisite insurance etc. Allocation of resources and serving the public interest are not mutually inclusive.
    Not sure where you're going with that, but I'm am pretty sure beating up on the homeless is not what you meant, nor did you mean to imply that being homeless leads to more drunk driving compared to the general public.
    This is either a good thing, or a very bad thing.

  29. #29
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    Wow, I haven't posted on this forum in years, but this is a important topic. I used to live in SoCal and rode with the SoCal crew there that many of you probably know. Now I live in Boulder, CO and while I don't ride as much as I used to, this topic is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's post ride, post run, after dinner with friends, after a BBQ, none of it matters, we just shouldn't do it.
    December will be 6yrs from my DWI. It wasn't a post ride beer, it was beers and dinner with a friend, but again, it doesn't matter.
    It's life changing when it happens.
    I don't know the total dollar amount that I've spent as a result, but it's in the thousands.
    I was also required to attend group counseling twice a week for 12 weeks and you cannot miss one session, otherwise you go to jail.
    Also 52hrs of community service to be completed within 60 days.
    Attendance of MAAD meetings, where you hear the life destruction from people that have been affected by others.
    Along with other life changing circumstances associated with the situation.
    My citation got reduced from a DUI to DWI, so I never lost my license. This was because of a couple reasons:
    1. The DA said they had never seen a driving history/record so spotless.
    2. I found out at the court hearing, the Hwy Patrolman made a clerical error and I was never "officially" booked properly, so the judge reduced it from a DUI to DWI.
    After I heard about the clerical error from the judge, I then realized why the DA was offering me a better plea deal(DWI, rather then DUI).
    If I had a lawyer, I actually could have gotten off and walked on a "technicality", but I'm actually happy and grateful that I didn't, because it opened my eyes and taught me the lesson that I needed. Since that time, I have not and will not have more then 1 beer and drive. If my wife and I go out and I decide to have a couple beers, then she drives or vice versa or we just Uber. I don't know how many times in my life I should not have driven and just spent the $30, $40, $60 or whatever on a taxi(Uber), but was stubborn, didn't want to spend the money and thought I'd be fine. Now, after going through the process, if I really want to drink more then a couple beers, I'll gladly pay for a ride.
    It's just not worth it.
    Another great point that I heard talked about often during counseling. Many people may party hard one night(at BBQ, Concert, or etc), they go to bed, wake up, shower, get ready for work or etc and then drive down the road, not realizing their blood alcohol level could still be over the legal limit, so if pulled over for any reason, they could still get a DUI.
    I heard numerous stories about these situations during those 12 weeks of counseling sessions. Again, it's just not worth it and common sense and responsible actions always need to be taken. I still love my IPAs, but now I just choose to love them at home and not go anywhere, if choose to have more then one.
 Where we live in Boulder, we have 7 breweries within 3 miles of us, so if choose to go out for beers, we walk to one of them and walk home. Be safe and be smart folks.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burdman View Post
    Wow, I haven't posted on this forum in years, but this is a important topic. I used to live in SoCal and rode with the SoCal crew there that many of you probably know. Now I live in Boulder, CO and while I don't ride as much as I used to, this topic is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's post ride, post run, after dinner with friends, after a BBQ, none of it matters, we just shouldn't do it.
    December will be 6yrs from my DWI. It wasn't a post ride beer, it was beers and dinner with a friend, but again, it doesn't matter.
    ....
    One of the best shares ever.

    One of the skills I've gained in these later years is to ask. And then listen, then learn.

    In this forum, I post a lot of new threads. Some are good, some bad. But it's only in posting new threads that we have a chance at getting this insight here. Hope others will do the same.

    Ahh, Burdman. I know you. Thank you!
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  31. #31
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    I ride less lately, and make up for it attending Land Cruiser events. One Saturday I went to a swap meet in Stockton. On the way I stopped by a liquor/gas station to get some beers and found a four pack of Speakeasy Barley Wine, my fave.

    I drank 3 between about 10am and 1pm. Not a good idea. I was d(runk)umb enough to pour the 4th into a Solo cup and continue on my way up to Lodi where I was buying a moto helmet via CL. Those people noticed how drunk I was and called the cops, who showed up as I was loading my car.

    Usually if you have the keys and the car is open you are considered "in control of the vehicle" and it's a DUI. Lodi PD has a policy of not arresting drunks, but holding them and letting them sober up. The lady cop was very nice. She let me call my wife to see if she would come pick me up. ("No", so I divorced her later.) Then she took me off to spend 6 hours in the tank.

    It was stupid and the 6 hours was a gift for which I am still thankful.

    Stay sober people.

    This has a lot more meaning to me since then:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0VDnQv-rLA

  32. #32
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    Very relevant topic with better weather here and the TNGR ramping up. I usually hangout after the ride for a least 2 hours and I usually have an average of 2 beers. This discussion is enough to make me think about cutting back to 1. I typically drink a lot of sours which are usually in the 4-6% range and I'm north of 200lbs. so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine.

    For the militants on here who are reacting poorly to the discussion of having "A" beer after a bike ride and driving home 1-2 hours later, that is not "Drink and Driving"

    I can only advise that if you're unsure about whether you should be driving post ride, please call someone.

    So not worth the pain and suffering of the long term impact of a DUI.
    Hunt Hard, Kill Swiftly, Waste Nothing, Offer No Apologies...

  33. #33
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    Just an FYI getting to a .08 is pretty much just a couple of sips with most alcohol drinks. Especially if thereís no food in your system. They made it this low to prevent the huge problem of under the influence driving. Get one DUI and youíll learn quickly and DUIís are a HUGE money grab for the state. Most of us love a good beer and some grub after a ride but itís not worth it as youíve found out from what your buddy is going through.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
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  34. #34
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    Looks like a decent tool Blood Alcohol Chart For Estimation
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Looks like a decent tool Blood Alcohol Chart For Estimation
    Not worth the hassle. As I stated above, just a couple sips will put you in .08 status. Only way to avoid that is not drinking at all before driving.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  36. #36
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    I don't drink very often [I can count the number of beers Ive had this year on one hand, without using all my fingers and thumb], but, what I will offer to those having a post ride beer, consider that you're also likely slightly to moderately dehydrated post ride. Drink lots of water BEFORE cracking that cold one, can help cut down your BA level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Of course. But the point is, .08 really isn't "not sober". If you are a full grown man and can't drive 100% safely after 1.5 beers, the alcohol isn't your problem.

    But that's why I just live in the city. I never have to drive period.
    I am a full grown man, and probably would be impaired enough after 1.5 beers to safely operate a vehicle (or even a bicycle in traffic for that matter).

    Who are you to judge me for and my body type that has me feeling the effect of alcohol to where I sholdn't operate a vehicle. Or to go even further to imply I'm not smart enough to handle a motor vehicle.
    How dare you.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by rho View Post
    Thank you for sharing this last night at the Gap as well as bringing it up here. I quit drinking two years ago from mental health reasons stemming for a giant transition related breakdown and suicide attempts, but there were a lot of nights out riding where I was very much driving home postride a LOT less sober than I should have been. Its a major wakeup call and I think a lot of us have been just narrowly avoiding having to this happen to ourselves.
    It took my little brother getting a DUI a few years ago before he figured out that it was a bad idea.

    A lot of us are very fortunate that was haven't had to learn this lesson first hand, or had bodily harm happen to ourselves or to others as a result of our actions.
    Wow. One of the gutsiest posts I've ever read on MTBR. I wish you all the best with your journey ahead, you've obviously got the courage to get there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwiceHorn View Post
    The threshold for DUI, 0.08 BAC, is pretty low. It's not intended to ensnare people who are drunk, but people whose facilities are impaired.

    The conventional wisdom in Texas, where MADD started all this enhanced enforcement and punishment, is to refuse the breathalyzer. This will result in an automatic license suspension (it's coming anyway), but the breathalyzer/intoxilyzer is a notoriously inaccurate instrument.

    Without the breathalyzer, they will have to draw blood, which will yield an accurate measurement. If you're dookfaced, it doesn't matter, but if you're close it could be critical. And sometimes they don't get around to it, so they're left with the video evidence, which if you arent a staggering fool, can make for a plea or dismissal.

    I suppose that DUI needed to be taken more seriously, but the side effect of all of this is that there is now a crimino-industrial profit complex surrounding DUI arrests.
    good advice. thanks for posting. i hate drunks as much as the next guy, but clearly OP's buddy, an in-shape and Avid MTB'er is not the societal threat he was treated as.

  40. #40
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    A valid driver's license is a condition of my employment, so a DUI would be even more devastating for me. Fortunately, I can't stand beer so I don't drink it post-ride with my riding buddies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    DUIís are a HUGE money grab for the state.
    Exactly. 0.08 is not about safety. It's about money. 0.05 is even more flagrantly about money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    Who are you to judge me for and my body type that has me feeling the effect of alcohol to where I sholdn't operate a vehicle. Or to go even further to imply I'm not smart enough to handle a motor vehicle.
    How dare you.
    Wow, touchy. I'm glad you took my blanket comments as a personal attack. Maybe back off the narcissism a little bit? Of course there are exceptions. 🙄

    BTW, LOL @ "How dare you".

    Oh, I do dare. I'll keep daring. Some say I'm a very daring guy.

    Also, handling a motor vehicle is not about being "smart". It's about skill. You can be stupid and still drive well. Or be smart and a terrible driver.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast Eddy View Post
    Admission:

    I ride less lately, and make up for it attending Land Cruiser events. One Saturday I went to a swap meet in Stockton. On the way I stopped by a liquor/gas station to get some beers and found a four pack of Speakeasy Barley Wine, my fave.

    I drank 3 between about 10am and 1pm. Not a good idea. I was d(runk)umb enough to pour the 4th into a Solo cup and continue on my way up to Lodi where I was buying a moto helmet via CL. Those people noticed how drunk I was and called the cops, who showed up as I was loading my car.

    Usually if you have the keys and the car is open you are considered "in control of the vehicle" and it's a DUI. Lodi PD has a policy of not arresting drunks, but holding them and letting them sober up. The lady cop was very nice. She let me call my wife to see if she would come pick me up. ("No", so I divorced her later.) Then she took me off to spend 6 hours in the tank.

    It was stupid and the 6 hours was a gift for which I am still thankful.

    Stay sober people.

    This has a lot more meaning to me since then:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0VDnQv-rLA
    I like this story. While I believe in consequences and deterrents I believe in not ruining someone's life over what might be a one off stupid descion even more.

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    Wow, timely.. had 2 ipaís after ride the other day. Drank in pretty quick succession since was out of water and was off after only about 20 minutes.

    On way home passed parked chp and he was immediately on my ass tailgating me, I thought oh Jesus Iím probably right over limit. He then disappeared off my tail and I had a huge sigh of relief. About 3 miles later he sped up again and was right on me.. I was sure I was getting pulled over. Only thing that saved me was I got to my driveway before he decided to do it.!!

    He slowed down and gave me the stink eye as I pulled in.

    I was already feeling like that was a sign to not drink even a couple beers post ride, especially if you jump in and drive after only 20 minutes. Now I see this post and it really hit home. Taking this as a sure sign. One light beer after ride if anything.

    Thanks for the post!!

    Btw fort point kolsch is decent and only 4.6% !

  45. #45
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    Study: Lowering Legal Blood Alcohol Level To 0.05 Could Save Lives
    https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018...ac-level-lower

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Study: Lowering Legal Blood Alcohol Level To 0.05 Could Save Lives
    https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018...ac-level-lower
    Self driving cars will be here soon enough, wonder if that will help.

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    I am a social drinker but I will never have a beer after a ride. I have a Class B license so my legal limit is 1/2 (.05) of the states legal limit. I am also a motorcyclist and I cringe at the fact the people are drinking and getting behind the wheel. I donít care who you are. 1 beer can impair you and kill someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    Self driving cars will be here soon enough, wonder if that will help.
    no. no it will not help IMO. and they won't be here that soon. as a cyclist, you should be thankful you won't be collateral damage because the offshore-sourced LIDAR software wasn't coded to recognize and avoid the sweet breakup pattern featured in your new MAAP kit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by benztech731 View Post
    I am a social drinker but I will never have a beer after a ride. I have a Class B license so my legal limit is 1/2 (.05) of the states legal limit. I am also a motorcyclist and I cringe at the fact the people are drinking and getting behind the wheel. I donít care who you are. 1 beer can impair you and kill someone.
    YES YES YES. No one can drink and not have their judgement impaired. The idea that "a man should be able to have a beer and drive home" is antisocial and LITERALLY kills people. It's dumbfounding to me that anyone here is surprised that you could drink 2-3 strong beers and not be cool to drive.

  50. #50
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    Real gems here. Thank you!!
    IPA will save America

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legbacon View Post
    Since I live near the trails I'll have a couple of 20oz pints and ride home,
    Umm, is that the new fuzzy math??? Sure as sh°t ainít the metric system.
    Donít frail and blow if youíre going to Braille and Flow.

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    ^ That's how they pour them at Divided Sky in Myers. Fat pints? Pint+?
    Ride fast. Huck bravely. Waste no beer. Safety third.

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    Yeah, great conversation so far.

    I can totally understand how a situation like the one fc told above can happen. Being new to MTB (less than a year) I still remember how it felt the first time that I drank one single IPA after a long difficult ride. It didn't bring me to my knees or make me stumble uncontrollably or anything crazy like that, but I did feel it much more than usual - usually I feel nothing after a beer, and this time I felt like I'd drank three. It was a nice reality check about drinking post-ride (dehydrated with an empty stomach). Since then I've been careful about any "quick" post-ride beers, and usually skip drinking at all unless I'm with friends and have a few hours to kill. And even then I usually opt for a saison.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    good advice. thanks for posting. i hate drunks as much as the next guy, but clearly OP's buddy, an in-shape and Avid MTB'er is not the societal threat he was treated as.
    How exactly was he treated?
    Do you mean the way he told the story about how he was treated?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Rider View Post
    How exactly was he treated?
    Do you mean the way he told the story about how he was treated?
    DO u have a thin blue line sticker on your truck?

    "6 months of misery until it's all behind him
    - about 20 days of duty, usually labor clean-up. Community service will be around double that since easier work
    - CHP treated him like a career criminal"

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jms View Post
    Wow. One of the gutsiest posts I've ever read on MTBR. I wish you all the best with your journey ahead, you've obviously got the courage to get there!
    Eeeh, its mostly behind me now, honestly sobering up and really starting to address other latent issues was the far harder thing. I spent a lot of time pushing a lot of feelings into riding bikes really hard, drinking heavily and smoking a lot of weed. The drinking really ended up being a massive crutch to make it from one day to next, which really is the start to bad shit happening. Being able to ride was good... and the endorphins did help, but I was on a path where someone was going to get hurt, either myself or someone else.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burdman View Post
    Wow, I haven't posted on this forum in years, but this is a important topic. I used to live in SoCal and rode with the SoCal crew there that many of you probably know. Now I live in Boulder, CO and while I don't ride as much as I used to, this topic is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter if it's post ride, post run, after dinner with friends, after a BBQ, none of it matters, we just shouldn't do it.
    December will be 6yrs from my DWI. It wasn't a post ride beer, it was beers and dinner with a friend, but again, it doesn't matter.
    It's life changing when it happens.
    I don't know the total dollar amount that I've spent as a result, but it's in the thousands.
    I was also required to attend group counseling twice a week for 12 weeks and you cannot miss one session, otherwise you go to jail.
    Also 52hrs of community service to be completed within 60 days.
    Attendance of MAAD meetings, where you hear the life destruction from people that have been affected by others.
    Along with other life changing circumstances associated with the situation.
    My citation got reduced from a DUI to DWI, so I never lost my license. This was because of a couple reasons:
    1. The DA said they had never seen a driving history/record so spotless.
    2. I found out at the court hearing, the Hwy Patrolman made a clerical error and I was never "officially" booked properly, so the judge reduced it from a DUI to DWI.
    After I heard about the clerical error from the judge, I then realized why the DA was offering me a better plea deal(DWI, rather then DUI).
    If I had a lawyer, I actually could have gotten off and walked on a "technicality", but I'm actually happy and grateful that I didn't, because it opened my eyes and taught me the lesson that I needed. Since that time, I have not and will not have more then 1 beer and drive. If my wife and I go out and I decide to have a couple beers, then she drives or vice versa or we just Uber. I don't know how many times in my life I should not have driven and just spent the $30, $40, $60 or whatever on a taxi(Uber), but was stubborn, didn't want to spend the money and thought I'd be fine. Now, after going through the process, if I really want to drink more then a couple beers, I'll gladly pay for a ride.
    It's just not worth it.
    Another great point that I heard talked about often during counseling. Many people may party hard one night(at BBQ, Concert, or etc), they go to bed, wake up, shower, get ready for work or etc and then drive down the road, not realizing their blood alcohol level could still be over the legal limit, so if pulled over for any reason, they could still get a DUI.
    I heard numerous stories about these situations during those 12 weeks of counseling sessions. Again, it's just not worth it and common sense and responsible actions always need to be taken. I still love my IPAs, but now I just choose to love them at home and not go anywhere, if choose to have more then one.
 Where we live in Boulder, we have 7 breweries within 3 miles of us, so if choose to go out for beers, we walk to one of them and walk home. Be safe and be smart folks.
    Grateful to hear you point of view and perspective. I had many times as a young adult or others where the parties in high school even, could put us over the line ... and did. So thankful I never interrupted someone's life or caused injury and it was just dumb luck I or nobody else got hurt. Had a few minor fender benders among stupid behavior etc....

    Ironically in that same period of time, probably August of 1980- It would have been a normal night of being out cruising in my 74 Jeep CJ and seeing a movie with friends that we'd usually have some beers or even mix up something in the theater with a cola. Nothing at all on board that night and soon after the movie, got hit by a red light runner that just about put me down. My passenger was tossed over to the driver seat, I was thrown out the soft top door into the road (no seat belt use). The other driver was possibly not DUI but had alcohol or an open container in the car. Major head injury and rehab for me but luckily nothing worse and passenger had slight injuries.

    Hit #2 1995 , April 30.
    DUI and uninsured driver hit my car driver door going est of 60 mph on a sunny Sunday afternoon at 130 pm. I was alone in the car. He was threatening the other witnesses and caused a 5 car total crash pushing me into other cars . I did join MADD to do some volunteer work on those victim impact panels for a time but even that was rough. I was so very lucky again to have rehabbed out and be walking talking etc.... I had a bruised chest wall that goofed up my heart rate for a while, dislocated femur head from pelvis, fractured pelvis and broken ribs. Pin in my hip and all went well with surgery and rehab but I actually think I had some form of survivor guilt. Hearing those stories of others on the panel that lost family or friends was so shaking me and yet I felt like my own story was too good to be true with my outcome.
    I went months before realizing I had a closed head injury and eventually had to look into another line of employment per memory and cognitive changes. (Impairment rating)
    I went over 2 years fighting the workers comp system as they were short-selling my income by cherry picking months of sales commission rather than a full year average. We were forced to sell a home we had just built and struggled our way through finances until Work Comp finally settled about 2 and a half years later. I'm fairly convinced they are set up to hope you die first or they try to starve you to death.

    Anyways, Burdmans story here shows a person who took responsibility and didn't try to get out of it, resent the other parties or fan the blame flames. We know drivers make errors, text or get distracted and it's just those fractions of a second that count so severely in most cases. I'm always reminded of it and it makes me a safer driver and a better example to other drivers (sometimes). Thanks again for your story Burdman and being that reminder.
    bachman must spread some Reputation around before giving it to himself again.


  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopold Porkstacker View Post
    Umm, is that the new fuzzy math??? Sure as sh°t ainít the metric system.
    I do not want to make light of this serious topic but, in most of the world a pint is 20oz, the Imperial Pint.

    Drunk driving has nearly killed me emotionally and that's all I going to say about this.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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  59. #59
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    I have finally stopped having the bad dreams, it has taken me 6 years since my last code 3 run up on hwy 35 to not see the carnage of the drunk drivers in my sleep. Do yourself, your families, and the first responders a favor. If you are going to get behind the wheel and drive down off the mountain, do it sober, I don't need to have to tell another person. I'm sorry there was nothing we could do. It still bugs the shit out of me . I still hear the screams, see the blood. It's not as bad as it was for me but it will always be there. Go home safely to your wives and kids, let the other drivers go home to theirs. Drink one of these instead.

    The Norcal post-ride DUI-img_20190420_185651197.jpgThe Norcal post-ride DUI-img_2755a.jpg
    Warning: Consumption of alcohol may make you think the person on the barstool next to you is attractive

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by FactoryMatt View Post
    DO u have a thin blue line sticker on your truck?

    "6 months of misery until it's all behind him
    - about 20 days of duty, usually labor clean-up. Community service will be around double that since easier work
    - CHP treated him like a career criminal"
    Maybe CHP treated him "like a career criminal" because he was...

    ...arrested for a DUI?

    Are we supposed to feel sympathy for someone who has probably done this dozens of times and only now got caught because he made yet another bad decision? Unless this guy has only been to a bar ONCE, ever, after a ride, this is a habitual thing.

    What else would you consider him other than a societal threat? I mean, what do you think DUI laws are in place to prevent, exactly? Rainbows and kittens?
    Death from Below.

  61. #61
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    How come there are so many strong opinions on this thread, but in every other weekly ride report thread there is people posting pics of their favorite post ride refreshments, with not a discouraging comment in sight?

    Donít mean to put you on the spot FC, but you started this thread.

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    If I were to get a DUI, Iíd lose my entire aviation career. Iíd be out of work, unable to drive and 10-15k in the hole trying to pay for it all.

    Needless to say Iíll have my beers during the ride, with enough saddle time to burn it all off. Or not at all. I generally donít get behind the wheel after drinking.

    There is just far too much at stake.


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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    How come there are so many strong opinions on this thread, but in every other weekly ride report thread there is people posting pics of their favorite post ride refreshments, with not a discouraging comment in sight?

    Donít mean to put you on the spot FC, but you started this thread.
    FC posted that picture and comment 4 days ago. He started this thread yesterday saying that he had a sobering conversation with someone on Wednesday. I was at the TNGR ride this week and I never saw FC pull a cooler out. Iím assuming his mindset on the matter has shifted and itís why we didnít see this full cooler at the ride.

    My brother in law and I brought a cooler with a lot of beer assuming we would be sharing with a lot of people. To be honest, there were at least 20 of us hanging out post ride and our cooler came home with most of the beer still in it.

    After reading through this post, I think my opinion on the the matter has shifted, as well and I will most likely only bringing ďAĒ beer for myself so that Iím not contributing to anyone elseís poor choices.
    Hunt Hard, Kill Swiftly, Waste Nothing, Offer No Apologies...

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    Are mountain bikers driving home from trail head libations and causing accidents? In my neck of the woods I'm unaware of this happening.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmarshall View Post
    First .08 is the legal limit but you can still be popped for DUI under that limit if you are impaired.
    This is what people forget, even if road signs occasionally warn that "buzzed driving is drunk driving." It seems fairly possible that someone with a stereotypical biker body (slim, not a the greatest body mass) can be dehydrated and have an empty stomach from riding, have 1 beer, then be impaired enough to be pulled over and get a DUI, even if they are under the limit. It looks like a few people have kind of addressed this above.

    I've read/ heard stories over the years about people getting cited for DUI (or drunk in public) while biking or even just walking down the street after drinking, and I've heard its possible to be cited for a DUI if you are drunk and sleeping in your car but haven't been driving. I'm not sure how common these cases are or how probable it is that you can be cited for DUI if you are under the legal limit, but I don't risk it.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Are mountain bikers driving home from trail head libations and causing accidents? In my neck of the woods I'm unaware of this happening.
    Yes, they are.

    Have a beer by all means, and wait an hour to go home. Take notice if you can't have just one, it's a big deal.

    DUI's don't clear your record automatically anymore. It's a life ruiner in many ways.

    Maybe you drive amazing after 10 beers. Great. Busted tail lights get DUI's often. Or tags. Or any other thing. Don't think just because you don't swerve that you're DUI proof.

    Serious, it ruins your life.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legbacon View Post
    I do not want to make light of this serious topic but, in most of the world a pint is 20oz, the Imperial Pint.
    Well, that makes sense Ė leave it to the ímericuns to get it all wrong.
    Donít frail and blow if youíre going to Braille and Flow.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    How come there are so many strong opinions on this thread, but in every other weekly ride report thread there is people posting pics of their favorite post ride refreshments, with not a discouraging comment in sight?

    Donít mean to put you on the spot FC, but you started this thread.
    Right on Boardman.

    The message is to be aware of the consequences of the beverage and drink responsibly.

    I wouldn't stop sharing a post-ride beer since that is one of the good things about mountain biking. But be an adult and look out for each other.
    IPA will save America

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Are mountain bikers driving home from trail head libations and causing accidents? In my neck of the woods I'm unaware of this happening.
    I don't think I've really noticed anyone drinking alcohol at the trail head. Only place I've seen open drinking is at shuttle days. There I'll see people randomly cracking open beers. I hope those guys aren't coming back down the hill impaired. If one was to get seriously hurt up there...they'd have to be air lifted out. Not really sure what the deal is with mountain biking and drinking beer.

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    The Norcal post-ride DUI-20beer-web01-jumbo.jpg

    As Buzz Cut posted above ^^^

    German Olympians Drink a Lot of (Nonalcoholic) Beer, and Win a Lot of Gold Medals

    "If nonalcoholic beer helped athletes recover more quickly from grueling workouts, then it could allow them to train harder. Scherr credits the nonalcoholic beerís salubrious effects to its high concentration of polyphenols, immune-boosting chemicals from the plants with which its brewed."

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Right on Boardman.

    The message is to be aware of the consequences of the beverage and drink responsibly.

    I wouldn't stop sharing a post-ride beer since that is one of the good things about mountain biking. But be an adult and look out for each other.
    I agree. Drink responsibly and you will never have a problem.

    Some people are making it sound like with a single post ride beer you are a dangerous risk to society behind the wheel and deserved to get a DUI.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    I agree. Drink responsibly and you will never have a problem.

    Some people are making it sound like with a single post ride beer you are a dangerous risk to society behind the wheel and deserved to get a DUI.
    The sad thing is that these people are pushing for laws and enforcement and they are getting their way. Iím guessing .05 will be the new standard in 10 years or less in California. I donít feel that having one beer and driving is a safety issue. However, as Iíve already indicated I have far too much to lose to be anything other than completely paranoid. A DUI would cost me my career, my livelihood, my home and much more.


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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamis View Post
    FC posted that picture and comment 4 days ago. He started this thread yesterday saying that he had a sobering conversation with someone on Wednesday. I was at the TNGR ride this week and I never saw FC pull a cooler out. Iím assuming his mindset on the matter has shifted and itís why we didnít see this full cooler at the ride.

    My brother in law and I brought a cooler with a lot of beer assuming we would be sharing with a lot of people. To be honest, there were at least 20 of us hanging out post ride and our cooler came home with most of the beer still in it.

    After reading through this post, I think my opinion on the the matter has shifted, as well and I will most likely only bringing ďAĒ beer for myself so that Iím not contributing to anyone elseís poor choices.
    Sharing is caring. Iíve been sharing beers fo 10 years and itís been one of the best experiences. Food is even better so thatís another option.

    Key is to get to know your circle and control it
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    As a result of this thread Iím going to be much more careful. Itís just not worth it. That said, non beer-drinkers who think a beer on the trail is a ticket to the ER are grossly mistaken. Alcohol has certainly earned its rep as a poison for mind and body, but let a lifer beerhound bark a little. While racing the SOC enduro, I transferred with a guy on his second in-race can and I donít think thereís anything wrong with that. Iíll see myself out....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Cut View Post
    I have finally stopped having the bad dreams, it has taken me 6 years since my last code 3 run up on hwy 35 to not see the carnage of the drunk drivers in my sleep. Do yourself, your families, and the first responders a favor. If you are going to get behind the wheel and drive down off the mountain, do it sober, I don't need to have to tell another person. I'm sorry there was nothing we could do. It still bugs the shit out of me . I still hear the screams, see the blood. It's not as bad as it was for me but it will always be there. Go home safely to your wives and kids, let the other drivers go home to theirs. Drink one of these instead.
    That is a great presentation!
    My Ex Wife is a paramedic. I haven't heard any major stories more than a few times but I cannot imagine having gone through this.

    Our first responders are the first to see these tragedies and like mentioned, they are often ones to mention to loved ones of the incident.



    I've read the two threads where there are some who seem to justify the post-ride drink because they are riding their bike (not driving home).
    I think that is equally selfish, and equally dumb. A cyclist can be cited for drunk driving just the same. But what makes it worse, or slightly similar, is the cyclist that was buzzed and rides into the road and gets hit by a vehicle with a driver doing nothing wrong whatsoever. Then drunk rider gets hit and injured (or worse), and the innocent driver has to live with it because the cyclist is the one at fault, on purpose.
    Of course the cyclist will be mad, after the fact, that the "stupid driver" didn't stop in time and ruined a bicycle and the rider has a broken ankle.

    Similar stories from the family of the rider passing blame on an innocent driver.
    Yeah yeah, it's a bit far fetched, but not entirely impossible.

  76. #76
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    Reminders like this thread are healthy. Thanks (and big respect) to those who shared their stories. Sometimes mistakes cause immediate, and unfixable consequences. That's why it's so important to recognize when we make a bad and risky decision, and learn from it even (especially) when the consequence is "only" a DUI. Sharing beers after a ride can be a great part of going out in the woods to have fun, and I'll still partake (and contribute; no mooching).

    But here's a great opportunity to remind ourselves how important it is that we act responsibly (on the trail, at the trailhead, and on the drive home). Let' treat the mistakes others bravely share from their past here as learning opportunities. Let's learn from the information knowledgeable and informed people have shared here to inform our own choices.

    If you don't want, can't risk, or can't handle a responsible post ride beer: have water or a recovery mix, or a soda and hang out and share smiles and stoke. If you do want the tasty treat of a post ride beer: don't over do it, know your limits, and don't let your ego talk you into doing something that could end or damage someone else's life. Acknowledge that your own life, your family, your finances, your career, and more hangs in the balance too.

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    ^^^ word^^^

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    Have a designated driver.

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    FC

    Your friend that you are talking about is a friend of mine as well. We have talked at length about it. Its a really hard thing to go though for you and your family. Sure makes me think twice about having a beer and driving!! Goo post!

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    The Norcal post-ride DUI

    Quote Originally Posted by dp400 View Post
    FC

    Your friend that you are talking about is a friend of mine as well. We have talked at length about it. Its a really hard thing to go though for you and your family. Sure makes me think twice about having a beer and driving!! Goo post!
    Right on. Itís big of him to share.

    Learning from our mistakes is good. Learning from othersí is even better.

    A beer after a ride is ok for most. Just understand the risks and control them.

    There is some similarity to mountain biking. There are risks but doesnít mean we all stop doing it.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Sharing is caring. Iíve been sharing beers fo 10 years and itís been one of the best experiences. Food is even better so thatís another option.

    Key is to get to know your circle and control it
    Agreed, but the TNGR is a mix of people from different circles and I only know myself at this point in time. Maybe that will change in time, but for now, Iím thinking I will not be bringing a cooler full of beer until I know people better. Iím all about bringing food for everyone and will continue to do so.
    Hunt Hard, Kill Swiftly, Waste Nothing, Offer No Apologies...

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    The advice i have always gotten from my GF (lawyer), along with all her associates, including the superior court judge she clerked for, is:

    NEVER TAKE A SOBRIETY TEST. Just repeat "i want a lawyer" and do nothing else.

    you'll lose your license for a year, but you will not get a DUI. Its a lot easier to bike or take public transit to work for a year, but have a clean record, than to get a felony on your record and have to deal with the cost, time off work etc of a DUI.

    That said, its a much tougher call if you don't think you are over the limit and can perform the physical tests just fine.

  83. #83
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    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    The advice i have always gotten from my GF (lawyer), along with all her associates, including the superior court judge she clerked for, is:

    NEVER TAKE A SOBRIETY TEST. Just repeat "i want a lawyer" and do nothing else.

    you'll lose your license for a year, but you will not get a DUI. Its a lot easier to bike or take public transit to work for a year, but have a clean record, than to get a felony on your record and have to deal with the cost, time off work etc of a DUI.

    That said, its a much tougher call if you don't think you are over the limit and can perform the physical tests just fine.
    I am not sure about the advice you speak of receiving from the lawyers and superior court judge....in the State of California, there is what is termed "The Implied Consent Law"....pretty much this states "any person issued a state driver's license is required to consent in writing to submit to a chemical test or blood, breath, or urine test if under lawful arrest for driving under the influence, to determine drug and alcohol content."

    If you have a California driver's license, you have already consented to take a breath, blood or urine test if under arrest for drunk driving.

    You can make a refusal....it will be noted in the arrest report...but if officers determine there is reason to pursue a chemical test you will end up giving breath, blood, or urine...or even more than one. In some situations law enforcement can even force a blood draw...all completely legal at this time (I say at this time as there are pending challenges to these laws in Supreme Court that such things violate Fourth Amendment rights).

    Also note that you do not have the right to an attorney prior to stating if you will submit to a test, deciding which test you will take, or during administration of the test.

    Also a refusal of a test could be used against you in court.
    "You're messing with my zen thing, man!"

  85. #85
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    Post ride beers have been a staple for decades in my riding circle. I've personally been pulled over rolling DUI and got away with it both times. I don't say this as a brag

    First time: Pulled over and before I fully knew what was going on I was cuffed and taken to the contracted lab for blood draw. Case was dismissed due to arresting officer not following some required protocol. Get a good lawyer.

    Second time: (because I'm too stupid to learn from my mistakes) I was let go at the scene because I was under the limit. This officer called in a "sobriety expert" who made the confirmation that I was not impaired. It was my lucky day

    I have a friend who was not so lucky - after a great ride at China Camp and post ride beers at MBC


    I'm sober (and happier) these days for health reasons and I have to say, it's a very empowering feeling to know that I'm always sober behind the wheel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bokchoicowboy View Post
    I am not sure about the advice you speak of receiving from the lawyers and superior court judge....in the State of California, there is what is termed "The Implied Consent Law"....pretty much this states "any person issued a state driver's license is required to consent in writing to submit to a chemical test or blood, breath, or urine test if under lawful arrest for driving under the influence, to determine drug and alcohol content."

    If you have a California driver's license, you have already consented to take a breath, blood or urine test if under arrest for drunk driving.

    You can make a refusal....it will be noted in the arrest report...but if officers determine there is reason to pursue a chemical test you will end up giving breath, blood, or urine...or even more than one. In some situations law enforcement can even force a blood draw...all completely legal at this time (I say at this time as there are pending challenges to these laws in Supreme Court that such things violate Fourth Amendment rights).

    Also note that you do not have the right to an attorney prior to stating if you will submit to a test, deciding which test you will take, or during administration of the test.

    Also a refusal of a test could be used against you in court.
    Im no lawyer, and the advice i was given was in WA state, but my understanding is that the implied consent just means that you have to be arrested first before you are required to provide those tests. Not taken into protective custody, not detained, not questioned. You have to be arrested and then booked before being legally required to provide samples. Probable cause for an arrest is a lot and a half decent lawyer will get "he smelled of booze" thrown out in a heartbeat if that is all they have on you. You give the cops as little to work with as possible. I have been told that all i should ever do is provide license/registration, and repeat "i would like to speak with my attorney", nothing more.

    And i do know this, a refusal of a test CANNOT be used against you in court to determine guilt or innocence. It CAN (but likely won't) be used against you in sentencing... but only if you are found guilty of anything in the first place... which is moot if you plead out. judges see the worst elements of society and know the difference between someone who needs a slap on the wrist as a wakeup, and the people who needs something more serious.

    One last thing, a decent lawyer will at the very least plead you out to a slap on the wrist if you are not a complete shithead with a history. DAs are slammed, and a cleancut dude with a clean record and a good lawyer is not something that DAs will spend time and money on. There are a lot of real shitty people out there doing really shitty things, and the DAs would much rather pursue those cases than the that of a fitness enthusiast whose only brush with the law was blowing 0.01 over the limit after a weeknight bike ride in the woods.

  87. #87
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    Good share. Very impressed. The version of this topic in the General Forum is not great
    IPA will save America

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Good share. Very impressed. The version of this topic in the General Forum is not great
    I can attest to that.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    Im no lawyer, and the advice i was given was in WA state, but my understanding is that the implied consent just means that you have to be arrested first before you are required to provide those tests. Not taken into protective custody, not detained, not questioned. You have to be arrested and then booked before being legally required to provide samples. Probable cause for an arrest is a lot and a half decent lawyer will get "he smelled of booze" thrown out in a heartbeat if that is all they have on you. You give the cops as little to work with as possible. I have been told that all i should ever do is provide license/registration, and repeat "i would like to speak with my attorney", nothing more.

    And i do know this, a refusal of a test CANNOT be used against you in court to determine guilt or innocence. It CAN (but likely won't) be used against you in sentencing... but only if you are found guilty of anything in the first place... which is moot if you plead out. judges see the worst elements of society and know the difference between someone who needs a slap on the wrist as a wakeup, and the people who needs something more serious.

    One last thing, a decent lawyer will at the very least plead you out to a slap on the wrist if you are not a complete shithead with a history. DAs are slammed, and a cleancut dude with a clean record and a good lawyer is not something that DAs will spend time and money on. There are a lot of real shitty people out there doing really shitty things, and the DAs would much rather pursue those cases than the that of a fitness enthusiast whose only brush with the law was blowing 0.01 over the limit after a weeknight bike ride in the woods.
    What you DO NOT have to do is hop around on one foot on the side of the road to prove your sobriety and remember that the police ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO LIE TO YOU!

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    And letís not forget about the drinking that goes on at the golf courses.

    The Norcal post-ride DUI-e871aded-4b8b-4d22-a2b4-95c398797a4d.jpeg
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    What you DO NOT have to do is hop around on one foot on the side of the road to prove your sobriety and remember that the police ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO LIE TO YOU!
    But, if you do hop around on one foot at the officers request, and stumble into traffic getting hit by a car in the process... the settlement will allow you to buy a house in the bay area. So there's that. Which is nice.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    But, if you do hop around on one foot at the officers request, and stumble into traffic getting hit by a car in the process... the settlement will allow you to buy a house in the bay area. So there's that. Which is nice.
    That will be my backup plan in case engineering doesnít pan out for me. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    That will be my backup plan in case engineering doesnít pan out for me. Lol
    Rideshare and other upcoming IPOs spell DOOM for all normal professionals. Glad I'm old.

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    This looks ridiculous but it led me down the fascinating YT rabbit hole of 'Cops Getting Owned By Citizens Who Know Their Rights'. Never gets old. It must suck to be an honest, ethical, LEO these days with so many arrogant jock bullies on the force.

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    A fraction of alcohol tax should fund a free taxi service, at least in urban areas. If you've been drinking you can call and get a ride home, quickly. In Portland there's a free service that drives you and your car home. If we were serious about curbing alcohol related driving fatalities programs like this would be common place and socially popular.

    I'd strongly disagree that nothing positive comes from these parking lot experiences. The bonding, laughs, blowing off of steam etc. is very healthy. Just ask the next generation of kids that can't make it through the school day without Adderall or Xanax.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californiagrown View Post
    The advice i have always gotten from my GF (lawyer), along with all her associates, including the superior court judge she clerked for, is:

    NEVER TAKE A SOBRIETY TEST. Just repeat "i want a lawyer" and do nothing else.

    you'll lose your license for a year, but you will not get a DUI. Its a lot easier to bike or take public transit to work for a year, but have a clean record, than to get a felony on your record and have to deal with the cost, time off work etc of a DUI.

    That said, its a much tougher call if you don't think you are over the limit and can perform the physical tests just fine.
    I refused because I was not in my care when the cops pulled up. My car had broken down on the side of the road and I was just about to start walking when the cops pulled up. I told them that I wasn't driving but my friend was and he already started walking. I said I stayed back because my golf clubs were in the car. One cop was cool the other was a total dick and they cuffed me and threw me in the back, called a tow truck to tow my car. I told the asshole cop to go try to start the car and he could see it was dead. He got out came back and said it was fine and stated right up. I went off the handle after that and said I hope his fat ass has a heart attack. They booked my, I refused all tests and bailed out the next am.
    I got a lawyer, we got a statement from the place I had the care taken that said it was dead and would not have started. I had to do a conference call with the DMV and my lawyer to decide if I should have taken the test. I made up a huge story that I wasn't drunk and why my friend left and I stayed with the car. My lawyer was pretty happy with the way it went. DMV said I should have taken the test, didn't believe a word I said. Said I could have done something to the car after I got it out of county impound and took it to the place I got the letter from. When that was said it basically was the same as blowing over a .08.
    I got the DUI, that I definitely deserved. Lost my license for a year instead of just a month.
    I had to do 10 days of community service, which at the time was going to the county jail, grabbing a bunch of tools, then we would pile in to a van and drive from Santa Rosa to Marin county and do trail work. I dug some drainage ditches in China Camp, helped build a handicap ramp so people could climb onto their horses and helped build a bridge on Tam.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    I refused because I was not in my care when the cops pulled up. My car had broken down on the side of the road and I was just about to start walking when the cops pulled up. I told them that I wasn't driving but my friend was and he already started walking. I said I stayed back because my golf clubs were in the car. One cop was cool the other was a total dick and they cuffed me and threw me in the back, called a tow truck to tow my car. I told the asshole cop to go try to start the car and he could see it was dead. He got out came back and said it was fine and stated right up. I went off the handle after that and said I hope his fat ass has a heart attack. They booked my, I refused all tests and bailed out the next am.
    I got a lawyer, we got a statement from the place I had the care taken that said it was dead and would not have started. I had to do a conference call with the DMV and my lawyer to decide if I should have taken the test. I made up a huge story that I wasn't drunk and why my friend left and I stayed with the car. My lawyer was pretty happy with the way it went. DMV said I should have taken the test, didn't believe a word I said. Said I could have done something to the car after I got it out of county impound and took it to the place I got the letter from. When that was said it basically was the same as blowing over a .08.
    I got the DUI, that I definitely deserved. Lost my license for a year instead of just a month.
    I had to do 10 days of community service, which at the time was going to the county jail, grabbing a bunch of tools, then we would pile in to a van and drive from Santa Rosa to Marin county and do trail work. I dug some drainage ditches in China Camp, helped build a handicap ramp so people could climb onto their horses and helped build a bridge on Tam.
    Interesting. So without completing any tests (walk the line, touch the nose, blood, or breath) you were still convicted of DUI? Do you remember what was the probably cause for arrest?

    Seems weird that an official at the DMV would would be able to render an interpretation of law in a judicial proceeding. Lawyers are supposed to argue codified law in front of a judge, not argue for interpretations of law from a 3rd party source that is then used in a court of law. Id be interested to know more about that aspect.

  99. #99
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    It was 22 years ago, so a lille blurry now. I was drunk for sure and they knew it. They said I was trying to start the care when they pulled up. I have never trusted cops since. these guys lied their assess off. So was I though.
    Yes, I don't know who this lady was but I could barely understand her english and always wondered if she understood mine. Apparently her job was to determine if I had the right to refuse the test. I don't know if the still do it.

    Now that I am thinking about it, I think it had to do with the year suspension. I think if she believed me, I would not have lost my license.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

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    People should also be allowed to leave cars parked places overnight with a note in the window and not get a ticket for doing the correct thing. In Fairfax you can, but my guess is most the Bay Area you'd come back in the morning to a pile of tickets. Not sure about trail heads either -- but we need to make it easy for folks to not drive.

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