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  1. #1
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    NorCal Climate Change -- Evidence on the Trails

    Was just reading these articles on climate change, pretty dire situation, and curious this year's Nobel in economics is climate related. Aside from the current macro situation of extreme drought followed by extreme rain, curious what other evidence people who spend lots of time outside are seeing.

    In Santa Cruz, it seems erosion along the coastline is increasing and water quality is worsening. On the trails throughout MidPen, and particularly Montebello, it seems general trail damage and erosion is more pronounced due to longer periods of drought and more intense periods of rain.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/07/world...wxc/index.html

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t?srnd=premium

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    On the trails throughout MidPen, and particularly Montebello, it seems general trail damage and erosion is more pronounced due to longer periods of drought and more intense periods of rain.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/07/world...wxc/index.html

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t?srnd=premium
    nah, that's just from the ebikers.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    nah, that's just from the ebikers.
    And heavier bikes with larger tires.

    Overpopulation possibly, but way too early to be ascribing any deterioration to classic "climate change".
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    nah, that's just from the ebikers.
    Well if you factor in water and calorie consumption eBikes are far more green, right?

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    Still riding trails up in Alaska with no snow yet. It used to be that there'd be a snow-event in September, but that's long since gone, been getting a lot of relatively warm rain though. Strange to see other places down south starting to pick up some snow and nothing here. The worst has been the last few years when there's a huge "blob" of warm ocean water off the coast and it constantly sends up rain and freezing rain during the winter with above-freezing temps. That is just bizarre. Hoping that doesn't happen this winter.
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  6. #6
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    One thing I've noticed is a significant decrease in wildflowers at Russian Ridge. Back in the 90s there were tons of wildflowers there. Over the years, less and less each year. This year was pretty measly in comparison. Spring butterflies have become less and less as well.

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    I* am not seeing anywhere near the same amount of fog and the associated condensation that used to drip down and soak trails in the mid-penn. Specifically, at Skeggs, especially the upper trails (Sierrra Morena, Upper Fir, etc.) used to get pretty soggy in the summer. Now not so much.
    Also the number of tree falls last year was unprecedented (in my experience) and seemingly unsustainable, in that they are, again seemingly falling faster than they are growing. If that's the 'new norm', Skeggs will be chaparral instead of redwoods before mid century.
    In the meantime, all the acorns are falling, but there are almost no squirrels around- there used to be tons of those guys everywhere. (A few woodpeckers still hanging out tho.)

    I'm pretty sure the IPCC report cites low fog condensate runoff, accelerated tree fall and squirrel shortages at Skeggs as classic climate change indicators.

    *No, I am not an environmental scientist, and of course I comprise an n of 1
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  8. #8
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    ^^ Another interesting observation at Skeggs, far fewer Banana Slugs than in previous years.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Still riding trails up in Alaska with no snow yet. It used to be that there'd be a snow-event in September, but that's long since gone, been getting a lot of relatively warm rain though. Strange to see other places down south starting to pick up some snow and nothing here. The worst has been the last few years when there's a huge "blob" of warm ocean water off the coast and it constantly sends up rain and freezing rain during the winter with above-freezing temps. That is just bizarre. Hoping that doesn't happen this winter.
    . Still no snow in sight, now riding the NEW trails we built during the summer!
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  10. #10
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    Running around looking for subjective occurrence is hardly a scientufic method

    It is depressing how politicized this topic has become.

    A market solution is not really market driven since it relies upon an administrative tax determined by models that have woeful predictive capability today. 100 years from now is absurd.

    There has been a lot of peer reviewed research since the seminal social cost of carbon work, that demonstrate elastcities and equilibrium are much lower than initial estimate. Yet the March of folly continues with the use of original and flawed estimate. That is what I observe going on.

    The award and the release likely had more to do with trying to influence elections, unfortunately.

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    Of course, when that subjective occurrence is just observing what's already been borne out by peer-reviewed data, the scientific method has already had its say.

    In this case, there have been several studies of the decline of California coastal fog and Central Valley Tule fog in recent years. Those studies link this decline to climate change.

    Same with the decline of insect populations. Particularly flying insects--e.g. pollinators.

    Same with the "wavy jet"/North American dipole pattern that results in simultaneously anomalously hot weather in AK and/or the Western US and anomalously cold weather in the Eastern US.

  12. #12
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    Way fewer frog songs and toads too. Amphibians in general. May be fungus-related but it's happening for sure.

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    Much of the NorCal ecology is inextricably linked to the water cycle that evolved it. Muck up the water cycle-> change the ecology...

    Many of the animals mentioned above (amphibians, slugs) and of course Plants are very sensitive to changes to moisture levels, (seasonal) timing, duration, intensity, etc. Not too suprising to see them rise and fall with moisture levels. Abnormally low moisture levels can stress individuals, leaving them (more) susceptible to fungus and disease.

    All of that is normal and expected and has occurred since the beginning.
    What is not so normal is the rate at which changes to the water cycle (less snow/more violent rain, less fog, less stream flow, warmer/drier overall) are happening.
    We can see it happening with our eyes, over the course of a handful of years.

    Historically, almost nothing* adapts quickly enough to keep up with the current rate of change.

    The salient term in 'climate change' is Change. We are leaving an incredibly long period of fantastically stable (predictable) climate and entering a new period of shifting climate.
    We have absolutely no idea where the climate will eventually stabilize and even less idea when.
    What we do know is the climate cannot possibly stabilize while the atmosphere's chemistry is still changing.

    Luckily, this is not really a problem for any(cough-wealthy-cough)one ahem- anyone- over ~10 years old or so.

    Rant over/Ride on




    *Obviously, even catastrophic events leave survivors; e.g. the dinosaurs that took over million years after global volcanic eruptions wiped out their reptilian predescessors, or the mammals that arose in the wake of the infamous meteor/volcano eruptions that ended the dinos 65mya.
    Point here; it took hundreds of thousands to millions of years to recover and what emerged was Nothing like what came before.
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    Close friend of mine from high school came and took out a dead live oak in my front yard recently. He's an arborist and crazy busy. Works mostly in Placer/El Dorado/Sac counties. He mentioned borers killed the live oak. And then I showed him the leaf discoloration on the blue oaks in my backyard. His response:

    "Anthracnose. UC Davis extension has a pretty good little fact sheet in their website. Basically we are seeing the beginning of regional species extinction, these trees are extremely particular about their growing conditions and the last five years have stressed them out bad."

    From an exceptionally smart dude who sees hundreds if not low thousands of dead trees a year right now.

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    One species that doesn't seem to be suffering from anything climate related is deer. I've nearly hit at least 3 deer this year, and I've seen more on the trails this year than any other, by far.

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    Yes, the deer population appears to be larger this year,, but I'm just thinking that lack of moisture and food higher up is just driving them down the mountain. I live at about 1000ft in Los Gatos (SC Mountains) and the deer are thick this year! Also seeing more bucks than ever.

    This happens in cycles for us.

    I have no comments on climate change because these discussions always go political and spiral to bad places.
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  17. #17
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    Thereís nothing political about climate change. Itís a matter of fact.

    Matters such as whether the earth is round and whether it orbits the sun (or vice-versa) were also once considered political or even religious questions by some. That some people try to turn facts into political issues canít change the reality that they are just facts.

    That said, itís hard to say much about the effect on the trails. Too many factors at work. Some trails I used to like now are rutted and unpleasant, but it could be bad trail design, bad maintenance, a couple wet winters, etc. a few other trails have gotten better ó good maintenance, less rain? Trying to identify a specific effect and determine whether it was caused in part by a gradual global change is always a challenge. Weíve all seen changes in the trees, beetle blights, etc. but we need scientists to figure out and tell us why this is happening and whether we can do anything to prevent it. (I know there is much science on this topic, but none of that tells me why my favorite tree died.).

    Politics should come into play only in deciding whether and when to take action/allocate resources to address the facts.


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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to J-Flo again.
    You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Thereís nothing political about climate change. Itís a matter of fact.

    Matters such as whether the earth is round and whether it orbits the sun (or vice-versa) were also once considered political or even religious questions by some. That some people try to turn facts into political issues canít change the reality that they are just facts.

    That said, itís hard to say much about the effect on the trails. Too many factors at work. Some trails I used to like now are rutted and unpleasant, but it could be bad trail design, bad maintenance, a couple wet winters, etc. a few other trails have gotten better ó good maintenance, less rain? Trying to identify a specific effect and determine whether it was caused in part by a gradual global change is always a challenge. Weíve all seen changes in the trees, beetle blights, etc. but we need scientists to figure out and tell us why this is happening and whether we can do anything to prevent it. (I know there is much science on this topic, but none of that tells me why my favorite tree died.).

    Politics should come into play only in deciding whether and when to take action/allocate resources to address the facts.


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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    Thereís nothing political about climate change. Itís a matter of fact.

    Matters such as whether the earth is round and whether it orbits the sun (or vice-versa) were also once considered political or even religious questions by some. That some people try to turn facts into political issues canít change the reality that they are just facts.

    That said, itís hard to say much about the effect on the trails. Too many factors at work. Some trails I used to like now are rutted and unpleasant, but it could be bad trail design, bad maintenance, a couple wet winters, etc. a few other trails have gotten better ó good maintenance, less rain? Trying to identify a specific effect and determine whether it was caused in part by a gradual global change is always a challenge. Weíve all seen changes in the trees, beetle blights, etc. but we need scientists to figure out and tell us why this is happening and whether we can do anything to prevent it. (I know there is much science on this topic, but none of that tells me why my favorite tree died.).

    Politics should come into play only in deciding whether and when to take action/allocate resources to address the facts.


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    Many good points here regarding facts vs political reality. And trail dynamics are indeed multi-variate.
    Perhaps I misread the OP- I was commenting on what I saw while I was riding on trails- that I might attribute to a changing climate-. I wasn't trying to ascribe any particular feature/defect of the trails themselves to unusual weather, for the obvious reasons mentioned!

    Having said that, I'd wager there is quite a lot cc science could tell you about why your fav tree died.

    And actually our political system is doing exactly as you suggest it should- defining what facts to be working with and acting accordingly...

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  21. #21
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    To me, it is still very debatable whether the climate changes of late are human-induced or just natural fluctuations in the world climate. Historically before fossil fuels the earth has been much hotter and colder. However, regardless of what you believe, air quality and protection of the environment is important. I have been to some of the highest smog ridden cities and smog definitely can affect quality of health.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    To me, it is still very debatable whether the climate changes of late are human-induced or just natural fluctuations in the world climate. Historically before fossil fuels the earth has been much hotter and colder. However, regardless of what you believe, air quality and protection of the environment is important. I have been to some of the highest smog ridden cities and smog definitely can affect quality of health.
    The correlation is between the CO2 increase due to industrialization and fossil fuel burning and the temperature rise. It's not that the temperature has risen or fallen, its the number of degrees during the time period (rate of change) and associating that with the likely reasons, vs. a gradual change, such as to an ice age. Living in Alaska, it's like ground-zero for all of this. I fly with climatologists heading to sites doing experiments like rate of melt, snow coverage, temperature, tundra, permafrost, etc. None of these people are trying to get rich doing this or living some kind of life of ease. They are doing it because they are scientists and they want to learn.

    Once again, a warm "blob" of ocean water is parking itself off the Alaska gulf coast and sending warm moisture-laden lows into our area where it just rains and doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do in winter or fall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    The correlation is between the CO2 increase due to industrialization and fossil fuel burning and the temperature rise. It's not that the temperature has risen or fallen, its the number of degrees during the time period (rate of change) and associating that with the likely reasons, vs. a gradual change, such as to an ice age. Living in Alaska, it's like ground-zero for all of this. I fly with climatologists heading to sites doing experiments like rate of melt, snow coverage, temperature, tundra, permafrost, etc. None of these people are trying to get rich doing this or living some kind of life of ease. They are doing it because they are scientists and they want to learn.

    Once again, a warm "blob" of ocean water is parking itself off the Alaska gulf coast and sending warm moisture-laden lows into our area where it just rains and doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do in winter or fall.
    Yeah, but none of those type of experiments were done in the past before fossil fuels so there is not enough data to draw conclusions from. It is still a hypothesis in the scientific method.

    Also, the warm blob is not likely to have been caused by global warming. It is more likely to have been caused by the radiation from the Fukushima Nuclear meltdown in 2011 from the tsunami in Japan. There is data to support that.

    So, you live in Alaska not NorCal?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    To me, it is still very debatable whether the climate changes of late are human-induced or just natural fluctuations in the world climate. Historically before fossil fuels the earth has been much hotter and colder.
    The head of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies explained in yesterday's New York Times why you are wrong. He's a climatologist with a Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics -- a scientist who has spent more than two decades analyzing these issues. His piece, called "How Scientists Cracked the Climate Change Case," summarizes the scientific research as follows:

    When this is all put together, the conclusions are inescapable: Without human activities the planet would not have warmed over the past century. When scientists include all of the effects that humans have had on the climate system, they can match them with these many independent and varied observations. Our best assessment is therefore that humans, at least the ones responsible for the bulk of carbon dioxide emissions, have been responsible for all of the recent trends in global temperatures.

    For more detail, look here https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/o...gtype=Homepage

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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Flo View Post
    The head of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies explained in yesterday's New York Times why you are wrong. He's a climatologist with a Ph.D. in Applied Mathematics -- a scientist who has spent more than two decades analyzing these issues. His piece, called "How Scientists Cracked the Climate Change Case," summarizes the scientific research as follows:

    When this is all put together, the conclusions are inescapable: Without human activities the planet would not have warmed over the past century. When scientists include all of the effects that humans have had on the climate system, they can match them with these many independent and varied observations. Our best assessment is therefore that humans, at least the ones responsible for the bulk of carbon dioxide emissions, have been responsible for all of the recent trends in global temperatures.

    For more detail, look here https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/o...gtype=Homepage

    It is still an opinion of one scientist and debatable. Does he have research journals? I still take every study with a grain of salt because I have seen a lot of studies that were very slanted to just help their industry or were being funded by backers that benefited from the study. I have a science degree and worked in research before, so I have seen quite a few of slanted studies.

    Still doesn't change my view of the subject. There is still a lot of other factors to consider, solar (the sun's energy flucuates), volcanic activity, changes in position of earth in relation to sun, etc. Also, the time frame of the global warming data is from the tiniest fraction of a blink of an eye compared to the earth's age of 4.5 billion years. To me, it is still debatable and not convinced that the latest warming is 100% human induced and not just fluctuation in earth temperatures. I like debating about science. Haha.

    Just look at how much the temperature has fluctuated in the last 4500 years.

    NorCal Climate Change  -- Evidence on the Trails-maxresdefault.jpg

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    Yeah, but none of those type of experiments were done in the past before fossil fuels so there is not enough data to draw conclusions from.
    The basic argument of deniers is "well, it's been hot and cold before". By saying stuff like that, you automatically remove yourself from being able to have an opinion and discuss it, because you fundamentally do not grasp what the actual issue is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    It is still an opinion of one scientist and debatable. Does he have research journals? I still take every study with a grain of salt because I have seen a lot of studies that were very slanted to just help their industry or were being funded by backers that benefited from the study. I have a science degree and worked in research before, so I have seen quite a few of slanted studies.

    Still doesn't change my view of the subject. There is still a lot of other factors to consider, solar (the sun's energy flucuates), volcanic activity, changes in position of earth in relation to sun, etc. Also, the time frame of the global warming data is from the tiniest fraction of a blink of an eye compared to the earth's age of 4.5 billion years. To me, it is still debatable and not convinced that the latest warming is 100% human induced and not just fluctuation in earth temperatures. I like debating about science. Haha.

    Just look at how much the temperature has fluctuated in the last 4500 years.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is some text book whataboutism. Everyone please ignore this dude. You're not going to get anything out of "debating" with him.

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    When the next species takes over, it'll be better adapted to the hotter environment left to it.
    You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

  29. #29
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    I seem to be noticing more downed trees this summer. And that's without big wind events. There's just a lot of week trees and soft, dry soil perhaps.NorCal Climate Change  -- Evidence on the Trails-img_3614fx.jpg
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    You actually proved my point -- you couldn't even be troubled to click on the article before saying you disagree with it and falsely say it is one scientist's opinion. News flash -- there is no such thing as "alternative facts." In reality, that is just a nice way of saying B.S.

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    I love the saying, "You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts."

    So true today.
    You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter.thedrake View Post
    This is some text book whataboutism. Everyone please ignore this dude. You're not going to get anything out of "debating" with him.
    What is wrong with having a discussion about it? Just my opinions about the subject. I apologize for offending you.

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    That's not a graph. THAT'S a graph. (in a thick aussie accent)

    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    It is still an opinion of one scientist and debatable. Does he have research journals? I still take every study with a grain of salt because I have seen a lot of studies that were very slanted to just help their industry or were being funded by backers that benefited from the study. I have a science degree and worked in research before, so I have seen quite a few of slanted studies.

    Still doesn't change my view of the subject. There is still a lot of other factors to consider, solar (the sun's energy flucuates), volcanic activity, changes in position of earth in relation to sun, etc. Also, the time frame of the global warming data is from the tiniest fraction of a blink of an eye compared to the earth's age of 4.5 billion years. To me, it is still debatable and not convinced that the latest warming is 100% human induced and not just fluctuation in earth temperatures. I like debating about science. Haha.

    Just look at how much the temperature has fluctuated in the last 4500 years.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    aliikane, you say some things that worry me. You say you have a degree in science, but you come out against/unsure what >95% of scientists all agree on? Are you holding out for agreement with the last fringe 4%? I'll assume statistics was not your speciality.

    Or was your reasoning that because there are industry shills with PhDs, therefore we can't trust government career and academic peer reviewed scientists???

    Which leads me to ask, why the science degree if you were so doubtful about integrity of what you were learning? Did you actually graduate a US accredited university. If so, I think your advisor may owe us an apology.

    If you bother to look into the masses of studies that have been compiled in order to form the unprecedented level of agreement on the causes of cc, you will see the effects of solar flux, volcanic activity, axis tilt and more included in their models.
    Anyway, your graph is a great example of how some quite unsophisticated manipulation of the scale of the axes can create extreme distortion of what it supposedly represents.

    All of that to say I know I should even respond to this but I too have a cool graph, of the very same time period. It is hard to read so here is a link as well. And spoiler-alert, it is a looong graphic precisely because ~4500 years is a looong time, compared to the handful of degrees of temperature change in that time.

    It's actually a good read, especially the end (the present) if you make it that far. Explanations for temp variations along with lots of historical references points. Good stuff!
    It puts the those temperature changes in the past into an important bit of context.
    Anyway just read it!

    As you were.


    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_t...e_timeline.png



    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_t...e_timeline.pngNorCal Climate Change  -- Evidence on the Trails-earth_temperature_timeline.jpg
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    Yo homies, the dude doesn't believe in AGW against the massive weight of evidence. Plenty of guys like that out there. Don't let that derail the thread.

    The original thread topic is interesting. Even if one cannot empirically trace specific observed, anecdotal changes to the dramatically higher GHGs emanating from human civilization, those observed changes themselves are still interesting to chat about. Because they're undoubtedly there if you're observant and your memory goes back far enough to have a sufficient frame of reference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyNil_Rider View Post


    Which leads me to ask, why the science degree if you were so doubtful about integrity of what you were learning? Did you actually graduate a US accredited university. If so, I think your advisor may owe us an apology.




    https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/earth_t...e_timeline.png



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    I have a BS in biological sciences. Yes, it is an accredited US university. Haha. Worked in research at Stanford and biotech for a brief while.

    Surprised at the insistence of so many people on this thread to try to change my opinion. Haha. Just because the crowd is touting something is true doesn't necessarily mean it is. A good example is during the financial collapse, companies were paying big money to the biggest rating agencies to put out reports that investment products were triple A+ rated investment products when they were garbage. Then companies were pushing these investments on customers while shorting them behind the curtain. Everyone was buying into it. You would be surprised at what people will do if big money is involved. So, I don't take anything as fact lightly.

    So far, I haven't read anything to convince me that global warming is 100% human induced. I look at the big picture. There is some enormous factors that effect the earth when considering global warming solar, volcanic, earth's orbit, earth's wobble, solar flares, solar spots, etc. Nothing is a constant.

    Again, just my opinion. That is great you believe in human induced global warming, I just am not convinced. Cheers.

  36. #36
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    I'm impressed that mankind has figured out how to affect the global climate in the last 100 years... especially how he's able to make it rain whenever and wherever he wants!

  37. #37
    J-Flo
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    The enlightenment ó the age of reason, in which humans together learned how to be greater than themselves alone through collective accumulation of facts and learning and the ensuing rapid rise of western civilization ó gave us most everything we know, from our wonderful bikes and computers to the power to destroy it all. With that power comes responsibility. That includes the responsibility to confront false ideas if they are dangerous to us all. This isnít like some harmless fool who thinks the earth is flat (amazingly a lot of people do think that; they say they are entitled to their ďopinionĒ and have charts and graphs to back it up). We are all in the same boat together, whether we like it or not, and when some of us refuse to acknowledge and deal with threats to the boatís seaworthiness, we are all at risk.

    I would like to shrug this off, or laugh (aliikane somehow reminds me of TomCat, ďhahaĒ) but it isnít funny. Itís like joking about cancer, but worse.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliikane View Post
    To me, it is still debatable and not convinced that the latest warming is 100% human induced and not just fluctuation in earth temperatures. I like debating about science. Haha.

    Just look at how much the temperature has fluctuated in the last 4500 years.

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    When you point to a chart put together by a crank like Harris you lose all credibility. That is, if folks were still giving you any benefit of the doubt after you trotted out the usual denier tropes (solar, sun position, etc.)

    If others are interested in how this fringe nonsense is put together and propagated this is one of many good summaries:

    https://medium.com/big-picture/talki...s-514177e31888

  39. #39
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    The intolerance of someone not agreeing with crowd is quite unbelievable. It amazes that people can't respect others with differing opinions, have a discussion without having to call me out as some horrible person destroying the world. Then comparing it to being worse than joking about cancer. Just for not agreeing whether global warming is human-induced or just Earth's changes. I still believe in air quality and protection of the environment as that has proven to have serious negative effects. Wow, just wow.
    Last edited by aliikane; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:07 AM.

  40. #40
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    Let's get back to observations on the trail.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Let's get back to observations on the trail.
    agreed !!!!!!!
    IPA will save America

  42. #42
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    Some trails seem more Democrat than Republican.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czar Chasm View Post
    Some trails seem more Democrat than Republican.
    Let's all try to stay on topic.
    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:45 PM.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Yo homies, the dude doesn't believe in AGW against the massive weight of evidence. Plenty of guys like that out there. Don't let that derail the thread.

    The original thread topic is interesting. Even if one cannot empirically trace specific observed, anecdotal changes to the dramatically higher GHGs emanating from human civilization, those observed changes themselves are still interesting to chat about. Because they're undoubtedly there if you're observant and your memory goes back far enough to have a sufficient frame of reference.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Let's get back to observations on the trail.
    Indeed. As I said yesterday.

    People can frame what's happening however they want for our discussion purposes here, I'm just curious to hear folks' observations.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightRanger View Post
    Indeed. As I said yesterday.

    People can frame what's happening however they want for our discussion purposes here, I'm just curious to hear folks' observations.
    LightRanger is correct!

    Differing opinions and discussion is a good thing, as long as we stay reasonably within the topic of discussion and remember the MTBR forum guidelines.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/site-feedback...s-1077662.html

  46. #46
    Oaktown Honkey on Strava
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    Climate change is not as good an argument about Norcal trails, as volume of trail users and drought. Climate change facts are the facts. Not much I am going to do about it but pound sand (I'm not in charge of China/India/Russia). Volume of users on trails and drought 5 of last 6 years (?) is really impacting trail quality to me. If climate change is ruining trails, it CAN be overcome with trail maintenance, which is awesome news!

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    Skeggs is now carpeted with acorns!
    I also see the odd banana slug out there, which is weird because it's so dry still. I saw this one guy I saw nosing mournfully about a spot that would be a muddy ooze in wetter times, but now was just dried dirt.
    "I may not be fast descending, but I'm pretty slow climbing."

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyNil_Rider View Post
    Skeggs is now carpeted with acorns!
    I also see the odd banana slug out there, which is weird because it's so dry still. I saw this one guy I saw nosing mournfully about a spot that would be a muddy ooze in wetter times, but now was just dried dirt.
    Those acorns make dusty flat corners fun!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Those acorns make dusty flat corners fun!
    Haha- totally! Either you wash out on 'em, or they get shot out like little daisy-cutters
    "I may not be fast descending, but I'm pretty slow climbing."

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