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  1. #1
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    Nor Cal on E

    Who here rides an E-bike or has one in their stable?

    What made you go E? What do you see as the pros and cons? Have you ridden one?

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    Good job! na

    Last edited by gonzo; 04-03-2019 at 03:28 PM.

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    Cons, I can only afford to own 1 bike right now, and I donít think they are worthy of replacing my current bike.

    Also, if I donít have any (very few) friends with E-bikes, it wonít be as fun smashing uphill on the flow trail alone. Lol.

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    I like my bikes pedally and my motos....motory?

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    E-skeleton would be badazz for football!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    Who here rides an E-bike or has one in their stable?

    What made you go E? What do you see as the pros and cons? Have you ridden one?
    Not one in stable but could be one in my future. Demo'd a friends spare bike over the weekend. Still on the fence with them as with where to ride and limited ride time etc.(yes I lugged a spare battery too). Definitely fun but definitely not "easier to ride" overall as most would assume.

    As always, YRMV.😎
    Last edited by JMac47; 04-03-2019 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Typo
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisbtsc View Post
    I like my bikes pedally and my motos....motory?
    What if there was little to no distinction between E and non E?

    Would having a tiny motor/battery for climbs while still having the light and nimble bike for the DH be more desirable?

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    I need the workout personally, but the ones I've seen in the wild don't seem to being doing anything out of the ordinary or hurting anything. The cost is way too high since you can get a real dirt bike for less. I'll take that e-skeloton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I need the workout personally, but the ones I've seen in the wild don't seem to being doing anything out of the ordinary or hurting anything. The cost is way too high since you can get a real dirt bike.
    True, unless you're looking at KTM's!😎👍
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    What if there was little to no distinction between E and non E?

    Would having a tiny motor/battery for climbs while still having the light and nimble bike for the DH be more desirable?
    There is a formidable psychological hurdle to get over for many. i live in SF and I hate all the E-bullshit devices buzzing all over, including those Jump and Ford 'Eco' bikes .I still see E-bikes as a cousin to Boost 'skateboards', and like, fvck those. Just my .02 as ppl used to say, and not a universal condemnation of the tech. Kinda bummed YT came out with the Decoy but it's probably a hoot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    What if there was little to no distinction between E and non E?

    Would having a tiny motor/battery for climbs while still having the light and nimble bike for the DH be more desirable?
    For me, I wouldn't want any sort of motor on a pedally bike. I don't necessarily ride to avoid the uphills and only enjoy the downhills. I enjoy all aspects of riding even the suffering parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    True, unless you're looking at KTM's!
    I mean, would anyone look at anything else?

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    https://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=5486462

    Every argument and talking point can be found here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    What if there was little to no distinction between E and non E?
    Huh? The distinction IS the motor. To ignore that is ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    What if there was little to no distinction between E and non E?

    Would having a tiny motor/battery for climbs while still having the light and nimble bike for the DH be more desirable?


    What if e motorbikes didn't exist at all?
    "These things are very fancy commuter bikes or really bad dirt bikes, but they are not mountain bikes." - J. Mac

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    What if e motorbikes didn't exist at all?
    More like it.
    Maybe the real question was, "will e-bikes ever be kewl to have"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach0215 View Post
    https://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=5486462

    Every argument and talking point can be found here.
    Invalid link. Hmmmm, wonder why that is....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    More like it.
    Maybe the real question was, "will e-bikes ever be kewl to have"?
    They already are actually.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Boy got some serious trail rash. It's all fun and games till somebody gets electrocuted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Boy got some serious trail rash. It's all fun and games till somebody gets electrocuted.
    Haha. Now I see why YT changed their logo a year or so back to include the lightning bolt. BTW that boy nearly won Rampage 2018 and hucks the Fest series so he probably lives inside a scab.

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    While that YT Decoy is the best-looking bike I've yet to see, there still isn't a single trail in San Diego county that permits them, and 'Dago is a LOT more progressive about bike access to trails than most of Norcal.
    So after depleting my bank account of 8K or so, it would basically sit in my already crowded garage, and never get ridden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Boy got some serious trail rash. It's all fun and games till somebody gets electrocuted.
    .....But he got that double forward roll PERFECT for the camera. PERFECT landing!

    And I think he can live with the scab. He looks picky.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    .....But he got that double forward roll PERFECT for the camera. PERFECT landing!

    And I think he can live with the scab. He looks picky.....
    Yep, he's a special kind of badass.

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    double post
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    E-bikes certainly aren't perfect or for everyone (kinda like 29ers or hazy beer), but they're nearing critical mass. Pretty soon somebody you know will get one, then somebody else, then you'll try one, and you'll be all "Ooh! Ahh!" Has anybody heard of someone getting a ticket for riding one where they're not allowed? Me neither.

    Luddites may resist. But resistance is futile! I don't have one yet, but it's just a matter of time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    While that YT Decoy is the best-looking bike I've yet to see, there still isn't a single trail in San Diego county that permits them, and 'Dago is a LOT more progressive about bike access to trails than most of Norcal.
    So after depleting my bank account of 8K or so, it would basically sit in my already crowded garage, and never get ridden.
    The Decoy is not $8k, go get one!

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    To each their own, at my life state I have limited time to ride bikes between work and kids. With that limited time, half of the reason I am out there is to get a solid cardio blast. I will not own an e-bike, at least not I get too old to climb 3-4k per ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Callender View Post
    E-bikes certainly aren't perfect or for everyone (kinda like 29ers or hazy beer), but they're nearing critical mass. Pretty soon somebody you know will get one, then somebody else, then you'll try one, and you'll be all "Ooh! Ahh!" ...

    Has this actually happened to anyone here?

    Curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endubro45 View Post
    To each their own, at my life state I have limited time to ride bikes between work and kids. With that limited time, half of the reason I am out there is to get a solid cardio blast. I will not own an e-bike, at least not I get too old to climb 3-4k per ride!
    Appreciate the share. Where do you live/ride and how often do you get to do the 3-4k climb per ride, realistically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Has this actually happened to anyone here?

    Curious.
    One of my closest and longest term friends (since we were in the 4th grade) just bought a Levo. Not because he can't ride a human powered bike, as we've ridden together for years, but because it's "fun". I agree, they are fun. I've tried one. I'm even more dead set against them.

    So, no. Easier is not better.

    As for my buddy... We agree to disagree. I did just invite him to come on our Sunday morning group rides, but those are strictly human powered and he knows it. We'll see if he comes out.
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    I have recently started to see e-bikes pop up on my local trails. I'm generally pro- e-bike because I think that those who have trouble getting outside for various reasons need all the help that they can get. Unfortunately, I am mainly seeing riders who used to ride non- e-bikes make the switch, rather than seeing disabled or not-yet-fit-enough riders join the fold. Disappointing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    While that YT Decoy is the best-looking bike I've yet to see, there still isn't a single trail in San Diego county that permits them, and 'Dago is a LOT more progressive about bike access to trails than most of Norcal.
    So after depleting my bank account of 8K or so, it would basically sit in my already crowded garage, and never get ridden.
    Same, very little decent singletrack on which to ride one legally around here, and it's not going to change much anytime soon.

    I think it's the best looking ebike too, YT makes some sexy bikes.

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    I'm looking forward to the day that I can afford one and for them to be legal on my local trails. No sweat if that day never comes though.

    I also get the feeling that I would quickly become disappointed in the experience and revert back to a hardtail SS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    One of my closest and longest term friends (since we were in the 4th grade) just bought a Levo. Not because he can't ride a human powered bike, as we've ridden together for years, but because it's "fun". I agree, they are fun. I've tried one. I'm even more dead set against them.

    So, no. Easier is not better.

    As for my buddy... We agree to disagree. I did just invite him to come on our Sunday morning group rides, but those are strictly human powered and he knows it. We'll see if he comes out.

    Really good share.

    This is the new quandry. Some embrace them when their old bud/coworker/relative gets one. Some do not. What about the next 5 years though. And what when a couple or half the folks in the group get one? The integration can be be easy or most likely interesting.
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    Thinking about it for commuting & urban riding. Driving is becoming less of an option with traffic around here being what it is 7 days a week. And using transit is becoming less of an option due to reliability and service quality/conditions. 10-15 min by ebike on my own vs. 30 to 45 min on the bus/BART, elbows and a$$holes the whole way..Not to mention the convenience of being able to make trips enroute to your destination and not having to wait on anyone/thing.

    I also figure that if i move to an area with reduced land use densities an ebike would mean i could cover more ground and still not have to drive or use it to complete what could be a longer commute to and from work. I dont know but its stacking up.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I'm looking forward to the day that I can afford one and for them to be legal on my local trails. No sweat if that day never comes though.

    I also get the feeling that I would quickly become disappointed in the experience and revert back to a hardtail SS.
    So I was a singlespeeder (pure for 3 years ) and I've always had ebikes in the house for the last 10 years.

    The ride was disappointing to say the least. But my 10 year old son could ride big hills with me day in and day out as I flew up Montebello on my 16 lb singlespeed.

    Nor Cal on E-img_0036-1-1-.jpg
    my kid 8 years ago

    Last couple of years, things have turned with bikes like the Pivot Shuttle. Took a pair to Downieville late last year and had one of the greatest rides ever, with a long lost riding buddy.

    Got to ride the new YT Decoy and it's great. And the $5k version is very good.
    Last edited by fc; 04-04-2019 at 11:49 AM.
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    I rode the Spec Levo, it was fun. I'd like to try something like Sam Pilgrims e-dh bike, if you've got the motor might as well take advantage of the travel possibilities.

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    Honestly, I am actually turning the corner a little bit on E. At first I was very anti, but now I am rather apathetic. Who knows, maybe in the future when I get older and can't pedal up monster hills they will look more attractive. I also feel as long as the E-bike riders don't get too aggressive and jeopardize access for human powered MTB, have at it.

    One thing, I am getting fatigue about seeing e-bike posts on every forum, all the time, everywhere. Can we not just keep this particular issue on the e-bike forum? At least until we get a little more understanding of potential impact and the dust settles a bit per se?

    I can't be the only one who cringes now when I see the capital letter "E" or "e-"...
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach0215 View Post
    https://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=5486462

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    That link didn't work.

  41. #41
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    (YT) Decoy?

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    Emtbr indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    I liked the way you wrote that review, JC. The Fezzari looks pretty nice too, and at a lower price.

    I still would have nowhere to ride it, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    While that YT Decoy is the best-looking bike I've yet to see, there still isn't a single trail in San Diego county that permits them, and 'Dago is a LOT more progressive about bike access to trails than most of Norcal.
    So after depleting my bank account of 8K or so, it would basically sit in my already crowded garage, and never get ridden.
    Can't you ride at the military base?

    Bay Area has seen a lot of change recently. Here's some places right here:
    - entire Santa Clara County Parks sytem where bikes are allowed - https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/P...ages/home.aspx a couple hundred miles?
    - Henry Coe State Park - one million miles of vertical
    - Wilder State Park, Emma McCrary, Pogonip
    Midpen and State Parks only allow with disability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Can't you ride at the military base?

    Bay Area has seen a lot of change recently. Here's some places right here:
    - entire Santa Clara County Parks sytem where bikes are allowed - https://www.sccgov.org/sites/parks/P...ages/home.aspx a couple hundred miles?
    - Henry Coe State Park - one million miles of vertical
    - Wilder State Park, Emma McCrary, Pogonip
    Midpen and State Parks only allow with disability.
    I suppose I could scoot along the ridgeline of the Miramar 1000 yard firing range, but I'm absolutely certain I'd get that feeling of "being watched". No thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    While that YT Decoy is the best-looking bike I've yet to see, there still isn't a single trail in San Diego county that permits them, and 'Dago is a LOT more progressive about bike access to trails than most of Norcal.
    So after depleting my bank account of 8K or so, it would basically sit in my already crowded garage, and never get ridden.
    That does not seem to be holding people back in the North Bay. Local shops demoing them right next to parks/riding areas where they are not permitted, opinion leaders riding them where they are not permitted, and regular Joe's riding them constantly in places where they are not permitted because "everyone is doing it".

    Im not anti-ebike, I actually think they are great. Just another tool in the toolbox and Ill probably get one at some point. I also believe it's an opportunity to get more people experiencing the awesomeness of riding a bike outdoors.

    That said, with our already fragile trail access in this area, it's just a matter of time before the HOH's start claiming that MTB'ers are now riding "motorbikes" on the trails and toss more BS fuel on the fire. Im not convinced that stakeholders are getting out in front of this issue regarding ebikes and access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by California_Dave View Post
    Unfortunately, I am mainly seeing riders who used to ride non- e-bikes make the switch. Disappointing.
    why is that disappointing?

    I'm pretty blown away by the new e-bikes. That being said, I would never only own an E-bike, I would however enjoy having one as a second or third bike. It's pretty nice to bust out a 4k ride after work in an hour and a half and still get a great workout in.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    (YT) Decoy?
    Yeah, fc fail. 😁
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Emtbr indeed.
    YEah Exactly. Check out EMBN (Ebike spin off of the UK's GMBN) and you'll see just how Embedded they are over across the pond and how naively we see them out here. I'm not trolling, just saying....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    YEah Exactly. Check out EMBN (Ebike spin off of the UK's GMBN) and you'll see just how Embedded they are over across the pond and how naively we see them out here. I'm not trolling, just saying....
    Yeah for real. The E-uros are way ahead in terms of acceptance and support. Seems like this non-analog technology will be morphing faster and faster and consumers are going to be inclined to chase more wattage and battery life and less weight even more quickly than we human powered versions chase performance....I'll wait 20 years until it's sorted. That said, I might hop on a Bosch at the Sea Otter demo next week.

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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by California_Dave View Post
    I have recently started to see e-bikes pop up on my local trails. I'm generally pro- e-bike because I think that those who have trouble getting outside for various reasons need all the help that they can get. Unfortunately, I am mainly seeing riders who used to ride non- e-bikes make the switch, rather than seeing disabled or not-yet-fit-enough riders join the fold. Disappointing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Yeah, fc fail. 😁
    YT Decoy! Schiiiiiiit. What a dummassss.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Yeah, fc fail. 
    Here we go. The $5k YT Decoy matches up really well with the ebest today, the $10k Pivot Shuttle and the $12k Specialized Levo 2.0Nor Cal on E-1-decoy-lavender-001.jpg

    Nor Cal on E-2-pa260227-001.jpg

    A good setup today is 27.5 Plus in the rear and 29er in front. The YT Decoy is setup that way from the factory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Appreciate the share. Where do you live/ride and how often do you get to do the 3-4k climb per ride, realistically.
    I live in the Easy Bay, so I get my 3-4k rides by doing many laps at all of the places folks talk about on this forum. My standard ride is 2 hours and 3k feet of climbing, if I am feeling aggressive I sometimes add one more lap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Fat, lazy, and out of shape is not a disability.
    Truth. We need to be pushing ourselves more, not less.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    I liked the way you wrote that review, JC. The Fezzari looks pretty nice too, and at a lower price.

    I still would have nowhere to ride it, though.
    I donít have anywhere legal (thatís enjoyable to me) to ride my normal bike either, but that doesnít stop me from buying a new mountain bike every year.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    YT Decoy! Schiiiiiiit. What a dummassss.
    Simple slip of the mouse dude! We KNOWZ youre a busy business owner BUTZ we still luv you fc!
    Now respond to my PM.....😁
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    My local ride is a knee-swelling hike-a-bike for one fun downhill followed by ice.

    With an eMtb I pedal up 3 times for 3 downhills, without a swollen knee. And its a far-better workout also.

    Win-WIN!

    Long chainstays & too-heavy will keep the playful crowd away. Until they get older. ;-)


    Catfish ...

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Yeah for real. The E-uros are way ahead in terms of acceptance and support. Seems like this non-analog technology will be morphing faster and faster and consumers are going to be inclined to chase more wattage and battery life and less weight even more quickly than we human powered versions chase performance....I'll wait 20 years until it's sorted. That said, I might hop on a Bosch at the Sea Otter demo next week.

    https://www.embn.com/
    Right. Wait! 20 years? whuuuut....
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by motocatfish View Post
    My local ride is a knee-swelling hike-a-bike for one fun downhill followed by ice.

    With an eMtb I pedal up 3 times for 3 downhills, without a swollen knee. And its a far-better workout also.

    Win-WIN!

    Long chainstays & too-heavy will keep the playful crowd away. Until they get older. ;-)


    Catfish ...
    Now there's a positive unbiased response right there! 😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Right. Wait! 20 years? whuuuut....
    Yeah - in my 70s

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    I donít have anywhere legal (thatís enjoyable to me) to ride my normal bike either, but that doesnít stop me from buying a new mountain bike every year.
    Chuckle. Good candor.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endubro45 View Post
    I live in the Easy Bay, so I get my 3-4k rides by doing many laps at all of the places folks talk about on this forum. My standard ride is 2 hours and 3k feet of climbing, if I am feeling aggressive I sometimes add one more lap.
    Right on. That's kind of what I've been doing to for the last decade. Although when I chase the stats, I tend to use the 22 lb bike instead of the 32. And hit the elevation trails instead of the fun.

    Anyway, it's been rough these last three months, that's for sure to crank out the quality rides many times a week.

    I have a few new bikes and ebikes in the stable to choose this season from so it's been interesting. At least no gravel bikes.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    Yeah - in my 70s
    You may be missing out on some fun times in your earlier golden years! 😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Fat, lazy, and out of shape is not a disability.
    Yeah exactly. I know a lot of people who are now riding e-bikes, and none of them are elderly, disabled, or otherwise incapable of pedaling. I do think there is terrain where an e-bike would make sense, but this argument that they're going to allow disabled people to get out and ride just seems to be bullsh!t. Also, why the fock would an e-bike be a good idea for a "not-yet-fit-enough" rider to "join the fold". As beginners, we were all "not-yet-fit-enough" riders. Christ.

    I've nothing against e-bikes, but I do have an issue with these sh!t reasons to justify them. I think we just need to be honest and admit the real reason people want one is to get up hills quicker and easier than they otherwise could, either because they are lazy, slow, or unfit. Nothing out of the ordinary with that.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    You may be missing out on some fun times in your earlier golden years! 😎
    I'm still getting faster on the unassisted bike! That will end soon and I'll let my depression guide me onward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Fat, lazy, and out of shape is not a disability.
    Most people would be lucky is keep up, descending or climbing, with my friends that have an e-bike in the stable. They just want to ride more. I also see a fair amount of older riders or people recovering from injuries on them. Familiarity breeds understanding.
    Ride fast. Huck bravely. Waste no beer. Safety third.

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    I've mainly seen old guys on them that looked like they earned their turns back in the day. It's funny to see them ride up hills like nothing. The couple young guys I've seen on them were pretty out of shape and the e-bikes weren't doing their fitness any favors, but it wasn't hurting the trails in anyway. I've also seen a little kid on one of those electric razor "dirt bikes", but his dad was on a regular bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Right on. That's kind of what I've been doing to for the last decade. Although when I chase the stats, I tend to use the 22 lb bike instead of the 32. And hit the elevation trails instead of the fun.

    Anyway, it's been rough these last three months, that's for sure to crank out the quality rides many times a week.

    I have a few new bikes and ebikes in the stable to choose this season from so it's been interesting. At least no gravel bikes.
    Yea luckily my local spots are fun and elevation but I feel you on that. In 2019 I have ridden 5 times so far .

    Just picked up a new SB130 that I think will give me the right balance of fun / climbing...now for this rain to go away!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    I donít have anywhere legal (thatís enjoyable to me) to ride my normal bike either, but that doesnít stop me from buying a new mountain bike every year.
    Touche!

    If you look at all the bitching in any e-bike thread, you'd think that mountain bikers are the most rule-abiding group of citizens. They'd never ride where it's not allowed, and always drive the speed limit, right?!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    I've mainly seen old guys on them that looked like they earned their turns back in the day. It's funny to see them ride up hills like nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    The couple young guys I've seen on them were pretty out of shape and the e-bikes weren't doing their fitness any favors, but it wasn't hurting the trails in anyway. I've also seen a little kid on one of those electric razor "dirt bikes", but his dad was on a regular bike.
    HEY!
    I resemble that remark!!
    This thread needs to be closed.
    Ebike suck.

  72. #72
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    This thread is a crack up. Here in Oakland, I finished a 3 hr Singlespeed Joaquin Miller Park, shred fest ride last week, with 2,700 ft of climbing. At the bottom of Dimond Canyon Singletrack, I saw a gangster with a full fledged MOTO Yamaha Dirtbike. So classic! I wasnt going to say anything, because people get shot around here.
    *Holy crab, I'm getting too old for singlespeed. I Only roll that bike 1 or 2 times per month, and I get demolished.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGoGordo View Post
    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]

    HEY!
    I resemble that remark!!
    This thread needs to be closed.
    Ebike suck.
    Go Go, it's only fair that when you're on that electric razor of yours, your dad should be entitled to be on an ebike! 😁
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  74. #74
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    This is an honest question: how is e-biking a good workout. Iíve seen that mentioned in this thread a couple times. Iíve never ridden one, but it doesnít seem like a good workout when I see people on them.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Samo831 View Post
    This is an honest question: how is e-biking a good workout. Iíve seen that mentioned in this thread a couple times. Iíve never ridden one, but it doesnít seem like a good workout when I see people on them.


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    You can give equally as hard an effort going up the hill if you want, youíll just be going much faster. And youíll also get more DH runs in the same amount of time. And if riding DH isnít physically taxing for you, then you are riding too easy of a trail or going too slow. For me my heart rate is usually higher on the DH than the uphills.

  76. #76
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    Yeah I would think an e-bike would allow one to ride longer, hence a better overall workout.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    You can give equally as hard an effort going up the hill if you want, youíll just be going much faster. And youíll also get more DH runs in the same amount of time. And if riding DH isnít physically taxing for you, then you are riding too easy of a trail or going too slow. For me my heart rate is usually higher on the DH than the uphills.
    this right here. Why so much bickering? Sorry I know that question has been asked 10,000 times. The option isnít going away, mfgís are investing way too much time and money to make this a temporary option. Nothing bothers me about e-bikes at all.

    If the bigger gripe is ďaccessĒ Ebikes will help open up the discussion especially if its old crotchety f#cks that govern the rules - ebikes might appeal to them. I heavily doubt the OPís intent is to encourage riding ebikes on trails that ebikes arenít allowed on.

    Furthermore, ebikes and the operators arenít tearing up trails or creating a hazard to other riders. That argument is 100% bullshit. There are more pedal bikers who are a threat over ebikes. If we can all ride somewhere like Georgetown with dozens of motos, you can easily avoid danger from an ebike.

    Sounds like the haters in this forum need to try an ebike to first dispel beliefs that it isnít a good workout. Doesnít matter how fit or how much effort goes into it - if you can have fun on them who cares. If youíre playing by the rules, there really isnít a reason why an ebike owner should give two fís what people think.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dchester View Post
    this right here. Why so much bickering? Sorry I know that question has been asked 10,000 times. The option isnít going away, mfgís are investing way too much time and money to make this a temporary option. Nothing bothers me about e-bikes at all.

    If the bigger gripe is ďaccessĒ Ebikes will help open up the discussion especially if its old crotchety f#cks that govern the rules - ebikes might appeal to them. I heavily doubt the OPís intent is to encourage riding ebikes on trails that ebikes arenít allowed on.

    Furthermore, ebikes and the operators arenít tearing up trails or creating a hazard to other riders. That argument is 100% bullshit. There are more pedal bikers who are a threat over ebikes. If we can all ride somewhere like Georgetown with dozens of motos, you can easily avoid danger from an ebike.

    Sounds like the haters in this forum need to try an ebike to first dispel beliefs that it isnít a good workout. Doesnít matter how fit or how much effort goes into it - if you can have fun on them who cares. If youíre playing by the rules, there really isnít a reason why an ebike owner should give two fís what people think.
    Word......

  79. #79
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    My casket was heavy, therefore it required an e-bike to tow my body to the resting place.
    Donít frail and blow if youíre going to Braille and Flow.

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    I'm gonna petition my gym to get in some e-weight machines and e- dumbbells.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCWages View Post
    Word......
    That's the dchester we know. Direct!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That's the dchester we know. Direct!
    #amiright ? I tried to be PC, i come in peace.

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    Going to feed the troll here I guess.

    I ended up buying a 2019 Levo earlier this year. What sold me was getting lapped multiple times by a guy on an e-bike who climbed 1 million feet in a year on a 1x9 VP-Free. If he doesn't care, neither do I.

    I've always been a DH guy. The enduro thing was something I took up because everyone stopped riding DH all of the sudden. When I was a kid I dreamed of having something like an e-bike to ride DH in places where I could not shuttle-- now it exists.

    The riding in my town has the steepest climbs I know of. As a result, I'd say roughly 6/10 bikes that I see on the trails now are e-powered. On my Bronson, I generally do one lap and am pooped. On my Levo, I do 3 laps in eco mode and get 6K of descending. Over the least few months of riding an ebike, my DH speed has improved due to having more seat time on the bike, and my climb times on my Bronson have also improved. And I have to say, group e-mtb rides are a blast. Recently, my friends and I have been doing a 5-6K emtb ride in the morning, 2K on the mtb while the ebikes recharge, and then another 3-4K on the emtb's in the evening.

    I don't view the e-bike as a replacement for my Bronson, but rather another bike in the stable that helps me get out on the trail more frequently on days where I otherwise would not ride. I find the anti-emtb vigilante's funny. Replace "emtb" with "mtb" in any of their arguments, and they are the same arguments used by hikers to keep "mtb's" off the trail. Ebikes are not dirt bikes. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never ridden a dirt bike.

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    NAYR - That is a great explanation and basically my same view on the matter. Well said.

    I think it's more of a tool to compliment your analog bike. They are both fun in their own ways.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    ... For me my heart rate is usually higher on the DH than the uphills.
    You need to calm down! You're gonna blow those corners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAYR751 View Post
    Replace "emtb" with "mtb" in any of their arguments, and they are the same arguments used by hikers to keep "mtb's" off the trail. Ebikes are not dirt bikes. Anyone who thinks otherwise has clearly never ridden a dirt bike.
    I have tried "ebikes", a few townies and a hybrid. They are clearly not bicycles either, but are motorized. This is a big distinction that proponents ignore. Those that do seek to ban mountain bikes on trails will use the "motorized vehicle" as an argument. No one can argue that they do not have a motor, so there is a point there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That's the dchester we know. Direct!
    And as a prolific trail builder/repairer his opinion holds some weight. For once anyway.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRP View Post
    Yeah I would think an e-bike would allow one to ride longer, hence a better overall workout.
    ^^^^^This^^^^^! Especially if you ride with the same perceived effort/enthusiasm you'd ride on your acoustic bike. Definitely more of a full body workout too. In both climbing and descending. I dont see one in my immediate future but no need to wait 20 years for technology, its here. Obviously it will progress and trickle down to lower tier packages like things do and prices will come down as well.

    And no way I'm waiting til I'm in my 80's to get one either!😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I have tried "ebikes", a few townies and a hybrid. They are clearly not bicycles either, but are motorized. This is a big distinction that proponents ignore. Those that do seek to ban mountain bikes on trails will use the "motorized vehicle" as an argument. No one can argue that they do not have a motor, so there is a point there.
    That's my concern, too. It's something the Klubbers would/will use against access, 'fo 'sho.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Trail Bum View Post
    NAYR - That is a great explanation and basically my same view on the matter. Well said.

    I think it's more of a tool to compliment your analog bike. They are both fun in their own ways.
    Hear, hear. Great points. It's kind of an e-nabler, not just for disabled folks but also for fit folks.

    Hey, I broke my 6 year hillclimb record riding more with ebikes from the doorstep on the 'off' days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I have tried "ebikes", a few townies and a hybrid. They are clearly not bicycles either, but are motorized. This is a big distinction that proponents ignore. Those that do seek to ban mountain bikes on trails will use the "motorized vehicle" as an argument. No one can argue that they do not have a motor, so there is a point there.
    No doubt that there is a battery and a motor. I am saying that it is irrelevant.

    You have no evidence that the use of ebike's has resulted in the loss of trail access to bicycles anywhere on Earth. Please prove me wrong. The majority of hikers cannot tell the difference between emtb and mtb, and there is no evidence that using ebikes has resulted in increased collisions between trail users.

    In fact, if you are involved in trail advocacy, you will see that a new group of old, retired, rich folk in southern Marin have started advocating for emtb access on Marin County Water District land. These are new advocates, who have never been involved in MTB advocacy before, with both TIME and MONEY. That is a very, very good thing for wheeled access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    I'm gonna petition my gym to get in some e-weight machines and e- dumbbells.
    Kudos in keeping things light in a challenging topic.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radium View Post
    That's my concern, too. It's something the Klubbers would/will use against access, 'fo 'sho.
    This is a concern of many and PeopleForBikes is tracking this statistic. The good news is it has occured... ZERO times in the last 5 years. If the hikers hate ebikes, they'll ban ebikes, NOT all bikes.

    It's putting more decision makers and landowners on bikes and it's helping the cause. The industry is only backing 250 watt max bikes and that is important.

    There are a lot more trails closed by Strava, normal riders, trespassers, bad behavior, etc.
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    One would think that more people on bikes may lead to more access. Especially if the demographic of E-bike riders are retired and wealthy.

    That has always been the edge that Hikers and Equestrians have on MTB advocates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The industry is only backing 250 watt max bikes and that is important.
    Um, not exactly. The EU laws allow 250w nominal, no limit on peak power, which increases with each new motor release. It's in the 650-750w range currently on most 250w emtbs. In the US it's 750w nominal, no peak limit either.

    All of the laws were written by "the industry". If the industry was serious about keeping a lid on it, they'd eliminate tuning, and put a hard limit on peak power. It's not like the current crop of emtbs aren't already plenty powerful to achieve what the manufacturers claim is the goal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    This is a concern of many and PeopleForBikes is tracking this statistic. The good news is it has occured... ZERO times in the last 5 years. If the hikers hate ebikes, they'll ban ebikes, NOT all bikes.

    It's putting more decision makers and landowners on bikes and it's helping the cause. The industry is only backing 250 watt max bikes and that is important.

    There are a lot more trails closed by Strava, normal riders, trespassers, bad behavior, etc.
    I'm not anti (anymore) at least, but not pro e-bike either.

    The one issue that I feel e-bikes will definitely hurt all MTB access will be the push for access to wilderness areas.

    One of the strongest arguments "we" (analog MTB) face is that allowing MTBs will impact the wilderness experience for all since MTBs will effectively expand the range that people can cover from the trailhead. Our counter that is that our access is still limited to human power and while certainly is longer than by foot, is still "reasonably" limited to ~30 miles'ish. Now lets compare that to all the talk of e-bikes allowing 30 mile days with 4K of climbing as an gentle afternoon pedal... That kind of undermines our defense.

    Another defense we use is, the "shred-bros" / DH focused riding would be less inclined to visit wilderness areas due to the physical elements of "earning" the DH. With e-bikes, this too is now out the door. The whole purpose of e-bikes from an MTB perspective, as aptly named by Pivot's, "Shuttle", is to facilitate easier access to the top to facilitate more DH. e-bikes actually would most likely become the preferred method of wilderness riding and re-introduced, and much more unequivocally, puts "MTB"s (if the term includes both analog and e-MTBS synonymous) clearly in the realm of "motorized vehicle" which has been directly ruled on now by several federal and state agencies. Seems the perfect evidence needed to allow complete banning of MTBs from wilderness since we are trying to make e-MTB and analog MTB the same.

    Just wanted to get this out there because I don't see it come up very much but this could be a very real consequence of the e-MTB movement.
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    In Marin at least, even if wealthy old guys buy e-bikes I doubt it'll ever help trail access. For whatever reason only younger people want to expand access -- the old guys don't want to rock the boat and are happy to ride some occasional illegal single track. I ran into an older guy that designed for one of the bike companies in Marin and he said the company didn't want to make waves lobbying for better access. He's ridden illegally to get to where we bumped into each other of course.

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    Yeah the whole argument regarding wilderness access is a very valid point.

    Seems like if we ever get legal access to ride wilderness trails, there could just be a ban on E-bikes? I agree there are places that no motors (including E-bikes) should have access to.

  99. #99
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    The Sierra Club in general has been supporting E-bikes; of course to displace the automobile---and of course only on paved bike paths and roadway bike lanes.

    And as a side effect it's another nail in the coffin for single-track MTB trail access.

    Wilderness access for bikes is now out of the question IMHO. Thank you IMBA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endubro45 View Post
    To each their own, at my life state I have limited time to ride bikes between work and kids. With that limited time, half of the reason I am out there is to get a solid cardio blast. I will not own an e-bike, at least not I get too old to climb 3-4k per ride!
    In the same boat with this guy. ^^


    Once I need an E bike I'll just go join a gym, ride spin class at the right time of day with a view......or just pack up and go trail hike....(ugh)

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