• 04-11-2006
    Yet
    New MTB trail possibilities in the SF Bay Area (GGNRA)
    What do The Marin Headlands, Muir Woods in Marin, The Presidio in SF, Golden Gate Park in SF, Mori Point in Pacifica, the 5000 acre Rancho Corral de Tierra in Half Moon Bay, and the Phleger Estate in San Mateo County have in Common?

    They are all managed by The Golden Gate National Recreation Area (GGNRA). We need your help to provide input at a GGNRA Open House, and tell them that you want to see Mountain biking in the parks.


    San Francisco
    1. Wednesday, April 19, 3:30pm to 7:30pm at GGNRA Headquarters, Fort Mason Building 201, San Francisco

    Pacifica
    2. Thursday, April 20, 3:00pm to 7:00pm, Pacifica Community Center, 540 Crespi Drive, Pacifica
    (across from Linda Mar State Beach)

    San Francisco
    3. Saturday, April 22, 11:00am to 3:00pm, GGNRA Headquarters, Fort Mason Building 201, San Francisco

    Sausalito
    4. Wednesday, April 26, 3:30pm to 7:30pm, Bay Model, 2100 Bridgeway, Sausalito

    San Mateo
    5. Thursday, April 27, 3:30pm to 7:30pm, Peninsula Community Foundation, 1700 South El Camino Real, Suite 300, San Mateo


    If you cannot attend a meeting, write
    Golden Gate National Recreation Area
    c/o Division of Planning and Technical Services
    Fort Mason, Building 201
    San Francisco, CA 94123
    [email protected]


    http://www.nps.gov/goga/pphtml/maps.html
    http://www.nps.gov/applications/park...-post2park.pdf


    Thanks for your support, and help get the word out.
  • 04-12-2006
    gobike
    Keeping my fingers crossed
    Said it before and I'll say it again, if they open up Phleger Estate, the bay area will have a backyard Demo Forest. This place is untouched w/ possibilities!
  • 04-12-2006
    bigboulder
    Fat Chance
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gobike
    Said it before and I'll say it again, if they open up Phleger Estate, the bay area will have a backyard Demo Forest. This place is untouched w/ possibilities!


    Aint gonna happen...sure wish it would though. It has been a while since I hiked up in that area but, That would be some nice riding fer sure.

    I can't see Mountain Bikers ever getting another foot of trail in the GGNRA. There is way too much anti MTB hysteria going on in the Bay Area.
  • 04-12-2006
    El Caballo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bigboulder
    I can't see Mountain Bikers ever getting another foot of trail in the GGNRA. There is way too much anti MTB hysteria going on in the Bay Area.

    If they start seeing more pro-mountain bike advocacy than anti-mountain bike hysteria, things will change.
  • 04-12-2006
    singlespeed.org
    The meetings away from Woodside may do better. I think the hysteria has just been built up due to the Huddart Park stuff that just hapenned (which is also why we will never get anything in Phleger - as the lower entrance is a connection to Huddart).
  • 04-12-2006
    singlespeed.org
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Yet
    We need your help to provide input at a GGNRA Open House, and tell them that you want to see Mountain biking in the parks.
    {snip}
    If you cannot attend a meeting, write
    Golden Gate National Recreation Area
    {snip}

    What are the issues at hand/reason for these meetings? Are there new lands, trails at issue they want public input on, etc. Anyone got some speaking points for this? Something more concrete than just saying "open trails to bikes"?
  • 04-12-2006
    knobbyknees
    General Management Plan sets broad policies...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by singlespeed.org
    What are the issues at hand/reason for these meetings? Are there new lands, trails at issue they want public input on, etc. Anyone got some speaking points for this? Something more concrete than just saying "open trails to bikes"?

    Details are at http://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectH...rojectId=15075

    But I'll quote for you:
    "We need your participation to help create the framework that will guide Golden Gate's management for the next 20 years. It has been more than 25 years since the original general management plan (GMP) for Golden Gate was put in place. Since then, Golden Gate has more than doubled in size and visitation, and the ecological and historical significance of its resources are better understood. Now it is time to look forward again to see how we can best preserve the natural vitality and unique cultural history of our park lands and continue to make them great places for all of us to visit and enjoy.

    That's where you come in.

    We are reaching out for your help and input as we develop a new general management plan for Golden Gate for the next 20 years. Starting in April, the National Park Service (NPS) will host five open houses throughout the Bay Area. We hope you will join us at one of these open houses to learn more about the general management plan; meet the planning team; and share your ideas, concerns, and thoughts about these special places. I look forward to creating our collective vision for these wonderful park lands.

    Sincerely,
    Brian O'Neill
    General Superintendent "

    From an advocacy standpoint, General Plans are extremely important and its essential that mountain bikers be present and vocal from the very beginning.

    Aaron Theis from San Francisco wrote to the ROMP list:

    "It would be more useful to tell the GGNRA at these meetings that:

    1) You would like to see mountain biking allowed on all trails in the GGNRA.
    AND
    2) The current trail building and trail use guidelines are outdated,non-sustainable and dangerous and need to be totally overhauled.

    For example, currently biking is only allowed on trails which are at least 6 feet wide. All of these multi-use 6 foot wide trails are hard pack, smooth surfaces that are often covered with gravel and which are often built with steep grades. Smooth, fast, steep and gravelly multi-use trails are dangerous because bikers have nothing to slow them down, they erode badly in rain, and are dangerous. A narrow width trail with terrain features and built sustainably will not erode and will be safer due to slower biking speeds. What they have now is a recipe for accidents.

    I think we should be asking for an overhaul of GGNRA trail building standards and trail use standards so that narrow width, safe and sustainable trails are built, which bikers can use.

    Aaron"

    I hope many of you can find the time to attend one of these meetings!

    Patty
  • 04-13-2006
    Yet
    roll call
    Patty,

    That was a great reply

    I am going to try to make the San Mateo meeting. Is anyone going to the SF or Pacifica meetings?

    .
  • 04-13-2006
    singlespeed.org
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Yet
    Is anyone going to the SF or Pacifica meetings?

    I have the SF meeting for Wednesday, 4/19 on my calendar.
  • 04-14-2006
    adthies
    Thanks Patty!
    Patty,

    Thank you for starting this important thread. I'm glad to see that you posted my clarification. I will be at the April 19 meeting in SF.

    Aaron
  • 04-19-2006
    singlespeed.org
    I just went. It is not a meeting, but an open house. This means you can just show up for 10 minutes at any of the dates and get your comments listed. Much better than those MidPen monstrosities where you go, wait forever, then get 3 mknutes to speak your piece just so they can ignore you.

    They have a set of posters up explaining some basics. Then a couple of tables and maps. They give you a sheet of paper and some little blue sticky dots. One set of maps is for "special places" (which seemed to be useless to me - the whole area is special). And another for areas with issues/problems. You put a numbered dot on an area of interest, then on your sheet of paper write your thoughts. Various park folks around to help or that you can talk to if you want.

    There is also an area where open questions can be posted.

    I got my pro-biking comments in. Hopefully others will be able to go and back me up...

    They said that a lot of the information online at http://parkplanning.nps.gov/projectH...rojectId=15075. There is a PDF form that you can fill in and submit, if you can't make a open house but still want to get your comments in.
  • 04-20-2006
    Yet
    Meeting today in Pacifica Pacifica
    2. Thursday, April 20, 3:00pm to 7:00pm, Pacifica Community Center, 540 Crespi Drive, Pacifica
    (across from Linda Mar State Beach)
  • 04-20-2006
    El Caballo
    I attended the Wednesday meeting. Like singlespeed said, it's an open house, so just show up anytime.

    There were a remarkably small number of people there...more park employees than visitors! This means your comments *will* have an impact. Get off your butt and go to one of the remaining meetings!

    Also, PLEASE don't just go and yell at them. They're really nice people, dedicated to preserving and expanding open space, and genuinely interested in what we want, because they really don't know what mountain bikers want or what a mountain bike trail should be. I had a great time talking to them and learning from them.

    I told them my views and clarified some basics (yes, we like narrow trails; no, water bars aren't a problem; yes, we like challenging trails with rocks and obstacles, and can ride up and down almost anything that isn't too steep to physically pedal), but I pointed them at the various BTC chapters around the bay for detailed info and volunteers to help plan/build.

    My biggest general comment for the system was: There is value in primitive and pristine places. Often "improvements" aren't an improvement.

    Read knobbyknees' post above: the trail guidelines are the main thing that needs to get updated for bicycles.

    Another comment: most trail conflicts come on the downhill; uphill, no one's going fast enough to make enemies. A few strategically located trails intended and signed for downhill bicycle travel would go a long way towards keeping the fast and noisy part away from hikers and equestrians.
  • 04-26-2006
    El Caballo
    Last meeting tomorrow in San Mateo. PLEASE GO TO THIS IF YOU CAN. There are surprisingly few people showing up, and you WILL make a difference.