Meeting to close Pinecrest area Trails.. Tonight!!- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202

    Meeting to close Pinecrest area Trails.. Tonight!!

    I just got a call from Mellisa who lives up the hill about a meeting that people are having tonight where some one named Julie Martin is planning/proposing to close all the trails that we love so much.

    John Tonnesen from JT Cyles contacted Mellisa and she contacted me so we can get the word out. JT believes that if we have a good showing that we can do something to keep these trails from being closed.

    The meeting is at 7pm at the Stanislaus National Forest Supervisors Office on Greenly Rd. I don't know the exact address just yet but I'll be looking it up.

    I just wanted to get the word out...... I think we need to show up to this.

    I will be there?
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  2. #2
    formerly Gobike69
    Reputation: Big Daddio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    346

    Say it ain't so

    Pinecrest is awesome and now someone wants to close it. Wish I could make the meeting. Praying they don't do it.
    Speed costs money, how fast can you afford to go?

  3. #3
    Medium?
    Reputation: Fast Eddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,723
    She's a Forest Service employee with some authority...

    Julie Martin. 209.965.3434 x5313 [email protected]

    Google: "Julie Martin"+Stanislaus

    Search for her name in this document:
    http://www.fs.fed.us/sopa/components...6-2010-10.html

  4. #4
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    This appears to be the location...
    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...,0.038581&z=15
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  5. #5
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    Is there any advice from people with experience in dealing with forestry people on how to approach this meeting tonight?
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Taranis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    221
    I have never dealt with forestry people but I understand they have a science backround and should be forced to show quantitative data of how MTBs are impacting ecosystem. And then force them to prove that there is more damage from MTBs than equestrians.
    If it's not ecosystem damage and the isue is to do with sharing the trails then you could sugest education as an alternative and mention that multi use trails work verry well in Annadel State Park.

  7. #7
    Caca pasa
    Reputation: Finch Platte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    16,819
    Quote Originally Posted by george_da_trog
    Thanks for going to this on our behalf, George. I hope there's going to be more that join you, but damn, that's short notice.
    "합니다 행사에서 디비 판매 합니다 관련해" Lesleybien

    Hogan Lake blog. A section of Hogan Lake trails here.

  8. #8
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    Yeah, we're getting a group of trogs together.
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  9. #9
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,737

    Good luck, Trogs et al

    I can't imagine that Pinecrest trails could be closed without some reasonable procedure. Otherwise it's like declaring marshall law. The first thing to do would be to try and figure out what the process is and what they expect to do in this meeting.

    See what you can find out about their motivations, as much as you can, and form your responses in advance. Arguments against the standard objections of Mt. biking are fairly few and fairly easy to confront, the key is to be reasonable and concise.

    Good luck pulling a cadre of attendees. That in itself will have a great deal of influence. We,re thinking about you.

  10. #10
    Medium?
    Reputation: Fast Eddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    6,723
    Come out all in favor of closing the trails to mountain bikes and horses and watch the reaction. LOL. F'n horsey zealots.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    348
    Good luck gents. Keep us posted.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: slop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    627
    Probably too late help tonight but one thing that really helps us deal with the FS up here in Washington is offering to do some trail work. You think this happens but I'll bet if you ask the Stani FW people if organizations ask to volunteer you will find out that not too many do. And I do mean organizations, so get moving you Trogs and start slinging some dirt with 'em.
    Good luck

  13. #13
    ol'guy who says hi &waves
    Reputation: fred-da-trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,543

    Good Representation At Meeting

    It turns out the meeting was not about closing Pinecrest.

    The Forest Service has been doing some special studies in the area, actually several miles from Pinecrest, and discovered mountain bike trails dangerously close to some areas of sensitive resources.

    The Forest Service says they want to build a trusting relationship with mtb riders in developing area's the trail system.

    Their first request was we disclose all the trails in a certain area that we would like to keep open. FS would then give us feed back and suggestions of reroutes or even ways to build better loops or connecting trails.This particular area is more popular with the horse crowd.

    I think it will make a great test area mtb riders and the FS to develop a working relationship before they move their studies to the Pinecrest area where all the really good trails are.

    What was most surprising about the meeting was the trail that drew the Forest Service attention has been a very popular trail for a number of years and all of a sudden their reseachers discovered it only recently. We offered that trail up as a test project working together to reroute. They were receptive and the process will begin when the snow melts.

    The FS assured us no trails would be closed until the reoutes were complete. Sounds fair. Can we trust them? Time will tell.

    As I said earlier, the area they are currently concerned with is primarily horse area. I say we work with them and see where it leads.
    .

    I may not have the best of everything, but I have the best everything that matters.

  14. #14
    Sweater
    Reputation: Buzzaro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,930
    Quote Originally Posted by fred-da-trog
    It turns out the meeting was not about closing Pinecrest.

    The Forest Service has been doing some special studies in the area, actually several miles from Pinecrest, and discovered mountain bike trails dangerously close to some areas of sensitive resources.

    The Forest Service says they want to build a trusting relationship with mtb riders in developing area's the trail system.

    Their first request was we disclose all the trails in a certain area that we would like to keep open. FS would then give us feed back and suggestions of reroutes or even ways to build better loops or connecting trails.This particular area is more popular with the horse crowd.

    I think it will make a great test area mtb riders and the FS to develop a working relationship before they move their studies to the Pinecrest area where all the really good trails are.

    What was most surprising about the meeting was the trail that drew the Forest Service attention has been a very popular trail for a number of years and all of a sudden their reseachers discovered it only recently. We offered that trail up as a test project working together to reroute. They were receptive and the process will begin when the snow melts.

    The FS assured us no trails would be closed until the reoutes were complete. Sounds fair. Can we trust them? Time will tell.

    As I said earlier, the area they are currently concerned with is primarily horse area. I say we work with them and see where it leads.
    This is good news. Creating a working relationship with them will only lead to better things including access, both to trails and the agency that controls them.
    All out of S**** and down to my last F***

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dave94024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    201
    I thinking a good relationship with the FS is a good thing.

    Just curious though, which trail are you talking about using as a study? I’ve biked and hiked the trail from Strawberry down the river for years (since the 1970s when I was a kid and it still had the old railroad ties) and have run into some very grumpy people on horseback… and I’ve been meaning to try (but haven’t yet) the trail that loops around by Aspen Meadow (Ridge trail?) where the horses are… Just curious, is one these trails in question?

  16. #16
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,737

    What a relief

    Good job.

  17. #17
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    As Fred said, we met with Julie Martin and they're not closing trails. Julie even stated that they see that there is a need for a trail system for mountain bikes. Instead meeting was more of a first attempt to start a relationship with mountain bikers.

    What was especially good to hear was that the one trail that they know of that goes through an area of 'concern' is to stay open until a reroute can be built with the help of the mountain bike community.

    We're concern with the steps after that.

    One of Julie Martin's requests is that we list which trails we want to be part of the 'official' trail system so that they can be included in planning. A few/many/most of us are reluctant to show them where the trails are in fear that they'll just be shut down.

    Both sides agreed that it may take some time for the mountain bikers to fully trust the forestry service people. It's a start, we'll have to see how this goes.
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  18. #18
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave94024
    Just curious, is one these trails in question?
    The bottom of Ridge Trail goes through what they called a "Resource" area. A "Resource" area seems to be an area where they're doing a long term study on the vegetation in the area. It also runs close to some spotted owl nesting grounds and they would like to reroute a section of it.

    But they said they don't want it closed until a reroute is built.
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    348
    Since there arent many trails up there we dont have to worry about disclosure

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    4,126
    Quote Originally Posted by fred-da-trog
    ..
    (1)The Forest Service has been doing some special studies in the area, actually several miles from Pinecrest, and discovered mountain bike trails dangerously close to some areas of sensitive resources.

    ...

    (2)Their first request was we disclose all the trails in a certain area that we would like to keep open. FS would then give us feed back and suggestions of reroutes or even ways to build better loops or connecting trails.
    ...

    (3)What was most surprising about the meeting was the trail that drew the Forest Service attention has been a very popular trail for a number of years and all of a sudden their researchers discovered it only recently.

    ...
    (1) From reading the forum reports from other states, such as New Mexico, I've read where modern trails get re-routed away from archeological sites or rare plants or habitat for endangered species. Seems like a better and more practical process than losing access to an area, which only tends to keep out those willing to follow the rules anyway.

    (2) Again, from other threads here (Tahoe area, Arizona, Idaho, Wyoming) getting everything on inventory seems to be key. Down the road, if it is not on inventory, a trail may become an area of dispute. Of course, if a trail has problems, disclosing an unknown trail may not save it but instead hasten closure.

    (3) Maybe the researchers "discovered" the popular trail because they are new to the area, or because they are looking at it for new reasons.

  21. #21
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,737

    You might take the lead in concern here

    It gives you a bit of the high road. Lead by expressing concern for archeological sites for example.

  22. #22
    Ride what you want!!
    Reputation: george_da_trog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    2,202
    We did, it was universally expressed that we did not want to ride through sensitive areas. One of the problems is they could not tell us where the areas of archeological concern are.

    Overall I think this is going to lead to something positive. I suspect that some trails may need to be rerouted or maybe even closed completely, but my hope is they will be replaced with an overall expanded trail system.
    Trogs: Too Tough for Carbon Fiber

  23. #23
    It's about showing up.
    Reputation: Berkeley Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    12,737
    The important thing is that you are there at the table at the right time. Keep a sharp eye out though.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dave94024's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    201
    As far as the spotted owls are concerned… we should just keep our jumps and bunny hops under say… 50 feet or so. That way we won’t hit their nests way up in those tall trees

    But on a more serious note… Are you sure it was “archeological” concerns and not related to their “experimental forest”? That trail skirts around an experimental forest… an area not touched, which was set aside back in 1943. http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/ef/stanislaus_tuolumne/ There have been interesting reports on how the forest has evolved over the years by studying these totally untouched areas. I can understand why they wouldn’t want someone biking through these areas (of course, on accident!)…

    On the other hand… A few years back the Inn wanted to remove some Aspen Trees from open space along the river which were blocking their view. They were going to replant others in non-open space. There was a request on the table back then for a representative from the local Mi-Wuk tribe to ensure it there wasn’t an archeological issue. So, maybe there is an archeological site along the trail there (?). Cool.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.