Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 85 of 85
  1. #1
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.

    I ventured out of NORCAL this week and rented a 29er at Deer Valley Resort. I knew it would be different because I could not lift up the front end very easily and felt like my reach was longer than my usual ride on My Felt Decree 3 with a small frame and 27.5.

    I rode an Ibis Ripmo 29er. I felt like I was at the front of the bike a lot and when going downhill my ass kept hitting the tire as it was RIGHT there behind the seat more than usual. I felt like I was overshooting the tables and I was at times.

    I've never gone OTB at high speed, and I wasn't wearing my downhill shell. BIG mistake. I destroyed my helmet and went to the hospital. I thank GOD I'm in one piece and just feel internal soreness in my upper body. I feel it when I breath.

    With my frequent trips to Northstar, I have a couple questions:

    1. What everyone does for safety equipment ALWAYS?
    2. How do you know you are hitting the limit?

    MY BIG MISTAKE:
    I decided to leave my Motocross shell in the car.

    You can see the carnage here:

    https://youtu.be/DVhypbGIZro

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    559
    Oh man, that sound. I've made that before. Glad you're ok!

    Any ride where you don't have to pedal up a hill (because chair lift or shuttle): full face, some kind of padded shirt with something for the spine (or pack with back protector), padded shorts with something for the tailbone, knee pads. Basically if you don't have to climb for a ride, it probably means you're bombing down something fast, so why not wear it all?

  3. #3
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.

    Glad all is ok, that post crash growl was awesome! Were you landing rear wheel first on those jumps?

  4. #4
    fc
    fc is offline
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    33,739
    That is gnarrrrrrrrrly!

    You were going too fast and got too excited on an unfamiliar trail. Changing light conditions too made it hard to read the jumps. You jumped late and the lip flipped you over since you were not ready IMHO.

    I've been to Tsunami in Deer Valley a few times and those lips are HUGE! And they're too short. They're meant to be taken at around 17 mph it seems.



    fc
    IPA will save America

  5. #5
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Glad all is ok, that post crash growl was awesome! Were you landing rear wheel first on those jumps?
    Rarely...I did a few times but mostly focusing on hitting the downslope at grade. It was the last run and I got too excited.

  6. #6
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    That is gnarrrrrrrrrly!

    You were going too fast and got too excited on an unfamiliar trail. Changing light conditions too made it hard to read the jumps. You jumped late and the lip flipped you over since you were not ready IMHO.

    I've been to Tsunami in Deer Valley a few times and those lips are HUGE! And they're too short. They're meant to be taken at around 17 mph it seems.



    fc
    I was overshooting a lot. Blind runs. Tunami and Tidal Wave.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: evdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,057
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    It was the last run
    That's your problem right there. Never say its the last run.

    The basics have been covered...full face, chest protector, spine protection. I'd prioritize the first two since you usually get bucked forward high speed OTB. Unfortunately wrists and collarbones are frequent casualties in these crashes because they are hard to protect. I've broken both. I've also had a couple concussions while wearing a full face. Armor doesn't make you immune.

    That's why I'd suggest dialing it back when you're on a new bike or on a new trail until you're familiar with them. It's easy to get kicked up by a lip that's steeper than it looks, especially on an unfamiliar bike.

  8. #8
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,184
    Park DH is park DH. Always use maximum armor.

    Also, when I go to a DH park on vacation, I always rent a DH bike. I don't see a valid reason not to. That is the most safety/security and allows me to enjoy the runs down, rather than fight the bike/terrain.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  9. #9
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    That's your problem right there. Never say its the last run.

    The basics have been covered...full face, chest protector, spine protection. I'd prioritize the first two since you usually get bucked forward high speed OTB. Unfortunately wrists and collarbones are frequent casualties in these crashes because they are hard to protect. I've broken both. I've also had a couple concussions while wearing a full face. Armor doesn't make you immune.

    That's why I'd suggest dialing it back when you're on a new bike or on a new trail until you're familiar with them. It's easy to get kicked up by a lip that's steeper than it looks, especially on an unfamiliar bike.
    Thanks man. I think I had a mild Concussion. This the helmet...now retired.Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.-img_1288.jpg

  10. #10
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    I would consider getting a DH/Park specific helmet and not the Bell Super3R.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Dagonger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    3,056
    Fox proframe helmet and goggles,
    Thicker elbow pads and knee/shin pads
    Gloves

    Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
    Instagram/Youtube- Dagonger
    Yeti Cycles sb45c/sb150

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 6280's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    199
    That video is so freakishly similar to a crash I had 4 weeks ago. Ended up with 2 broken ribs.
    I was also on the ďlastĒ run of the day.
    I had to ride another 4 miles to get to the base area.
    Brutal


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87

    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    I would consider getting a DH/Park specific helmet and not the Bell Super3R.
    Yeah, agreed.

  14. #14
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 6280 View Post
    That video is so freakishly similar to a crash I had 4 weeks ago. Ended up with 2 broken ribs.
    I was also on the ďlastĒ run of the day.
    I had to ride another 4 miles to get to the base area.
    Brutal


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    My knees were good and my elbows good. The Troy Lee sleeves have plastic inserts and really saved me. Helmet did the job too, and I'll need a new one. No pain in the arms legs...BUT a Gform shirt WITHOUT my Shell (Shoulders, Chest/Spine Protection) the torso and shoulders are jacked up. 2nd day after and I feel 60% better though. I re-injured a previous rotator cuff tear a bit.

  15. #15
    fc
    fc is offline
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    33,739
    Quote Originally Posted by 6280 View Post
    That video is so freakishly similar to a crash I had 4 weeks ago. Ended up with 2 broken ribs.
    I was also on the ďlastĒ run of the day.
    I had to ride another 4 miles to get to the base area.
    Brutal


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So what happened in your jump? Did you flip before you land? Do you know why and how to prevent it? Sometimes, that is the key to getting confidence back.
    IPA will save America

  16. #16
    fc
    fc is offline
    head minion Administrator
    Reputation: fc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1996
    Posts
    33,739
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    I was overshooting a lot. Blind runs. Tunami and Tidal Wave.
    I think that is the key, key error. Most park runs are built to a specific speed to clear the jumps (usually tabletops). If you are overshooting the first few jumps, you have to slow down (or elevate high and dissipate energy that way)

    So those jumps are made for about 17-18mph with massive jump lips. If you are going 25 or so, it will be trouble.

    Also timing. If you jump late, your front wheel will go over the lip and drop and you will flip over before you even hit the ground.

    Sorry this happened. You have a lot of soft tissue damage so you have to rest tons. I don't think you have a concussion. Otherwise, you will be screwed and you should be away for the computer or any tv.

    Your helmet did a great, great job i think.
    IPA will save America

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: austink26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    125
    Holy moly you took a digger. Really glad you arenít more injured. For park days I just wear what I usually race in. Proframe helmet, goggles, gloves, and knee guards.

    If you are really looking to push it on new park trails, definitely gear up more. But my recommendation is only ride at 80% on trails you donít ride frequently. Yeah boosting is fun and that maxed out feeling is thrilling, but going home safe is a better feeling. I also always end the day doing my one lap of a green trail. Cool it down and end the day with a smile vs trying to blast out the biggest run of the day.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,987
    It least it looked like you were having a lot of fun right up until you werent? :0)

    Looked really fast. I'd be doing half that speed and rolling over all those doubles. But probably driving myself home.

  19. #19
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    32,184
    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I think that is the key, key error. Most park runs are built to a specific speed to clear the jumps (usually tabletops). If you are overshooting the first few jumps, you have to slow down (or elevate high and dissipate energy that way)

    So those jumps are made for about 17-18mph with massive jump lips. If you are going 25 or so, it will be trouble.

    Also timing. If you jump late, your front wheel will go over the lip and drop and you will flip over before you even hit the ground.

    Sorry this happened. You have a lot of soft tissue damage so you have to rest tons. I don't think you have a concussion. Otherwise, you will be screwed and you should be away for the computer or any tv.

    Your helmet did a great, great job i think.
    Yep, we built new jump and tech DH trails last season here. They are fun and you can get some big air, there are a few places where you really have to pedal hard to get the right speed to clear a few of the doubles/features...but, as you learn then better and better and get faster, eventually you start hitting sections with too much speed, things get REAL interesting then, as you can literally bounce yourself into a tree due to rebound or land on your fork well past a transition, etc. As long as you are at the designed speed, it's fun. Trying to set strava or race records can quickly change that.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Austin-nc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    151
    Have to agree with everyone that says to get a real full face. Amazing how many people I see wearing half shells at parks, just not worth it. Also I wouldn't say a profame is really a appropriate helmet for park DH. Might as well get a full weight helmet especially if your lift assisted.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: twowheelmotion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,102
    Ow!!!!!!

    So.. Which shock was on the bike?

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    Thanks man. I think I had a mild Concussion. This the helmet...now retired.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1288.jpg 
Views:	182 
Size:	239.4 KB 
ID:	1273389
    Imagine what your face might look like had you been wearing half lids like the two guys who stopped to check if you were ok.

    Self diagnosing a concussion can be hard, I'd see me gp about the head and get the shoulder checked out. Glad you weren't hurt worse.

  23. #23
    I just wanna go fast!
    Reputation: bdamschen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    1,835
    Park riding for me is kneepads, my moto dot/snell helmet, gloves, and some sort of light core protection vest/shirt. I noticed that once I started to add more pads getting me closer to michelin man status, my range of motion gets limited and it's harder to recover from mistakes.

  24. #24
    More pie please
    Reputation: Skyline35's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,866
    How did you not hurt your hands or wrists?

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.-massive-bike-park-otb-crash-mtbr.jpg
    Long live long rides

  25. #25
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Out of the box: I think helmets and pads, riding conservatively, etc are great. But the best form of injury prevention is to keep body weight down, strength and flexibility up. I see lots of guys past the age of 30 who are a bit pudgy, and very tight, a recipe for injury, and not just for mountain biking. Maybe this is why OP walked away with just minor injuries, strong and flexible? Doing Yoga or other mobility type exercising? That looked like a hospital level impact for many.

  26. #26
    Hella Olde
    Reputation: DH40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,240
    I ride park with the same gear I would for DH race - including a neck device. I don't care if I look like a kook and tell the cool kids that my mom makes me wear it - even though I could easily be a grandpa. If it's super-jagged terrain I'll wear my Dainese Safety Jacket circa Y2K under a t-shirt. The jacket didn't prevent me from snapping my radius going OTB down the rockiest chute on the hill at Mammoth, but I didn't have a scratch otherwise. Emulating the casual-pro t-shirt look of the Fest series type riders is a recipe for disaster that only kids made of rubber should be sporting - unless their parents have any wits about them.

  27. #27
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin-nc View Post
    Have to agree with everyone that says to get a real full face.
    Get a MOTOCROSS full face. Don't use those flimsy DH-specific ones. They are dangerously inadequate if you are riding double black trails with big jumps, high speeds, and lots of rocks.

  28. #28
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Get a MOTOCROSS full face. Don't use those flimsy DH-specific ones. They are dangerously inadequate if you are riding double black trails with big jumps, high speeds, and lots of rocks.
    Just make sure there's not a lot of pedaling otherwise you'll look like this when you take your helmet off.....

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.-screenshot-shrunken-head.jpg

  29. #29
    NRP
    NRP is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    664
    Wait . . . so DH specific full face helmets aren't good enough?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Austin-nc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Get a MOTOCROSS full face. Don't use those flimsy DH-specific ones. They are dangerously inadequate if you are riding double black trails with big jumps, high speeds, and lots of rocks.
    This isnt true the dh specific full faces are good helmets, the mx helmets are rated for highway speeds and are much larger and heavier which one could argue wont protect you as well in a lower speed crash more likely on a MTB. Anyways my point was theres a difference between the full on DH helmets like the D3 and the full 9 compared to the light enduro style helmets like the profame. The light ones are great when they allow you to wear that instead of a half shell because you are climbing alot or whatever but they aren't as safe as an actual DH helmet

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

  31. #31
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline35 View Post
    How did you not hurt your hands or wrists?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Massive Bike Park OTB Crash mtbr.jpg 
Views:	109 
Size:	272.5 KB 
ID:	1273441
    I have no idea. Chunk of flesh is gone from my right palm.

  32. #32
    Hella Olde
    Reputation: DH40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,240
    Quote Originally Posted by NRP View Post
    Wait . . . so DH specific full face helmets aren't good enough?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
    That's one person's opinion. They are good enough for 99.7% of DH racers.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RBoardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,503

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Out of the box: I think helmets and pads, riding conservatively, etc are great. But the best form of injury prevention is to keep body weight down, strength and flexibility up. I see lots of guys past the age of 30 who are a bit pudgy, and very tight, a recipe for injury, and not just for mountain biking. Maybe this is why OP walked away with just minor injuries, strong and flexible? Doing Yoga or other mobility type exercising? That looked like a hospital level impact for many.
    Knowing how to crash is important too. Whenever I ride with someone with a BMX background they seem to be able to roll out of anything unscathed. Unlike the OP who looked like he took a hard slam straight to the face. Hope everything is all good.

  34. #34
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Knowing how to crash is important too. Whenever I ride with someone with a BMX background they seem to be able to roll out of anything unscathed. Unlike the OP who looked like he took a hard slam straight to the face. Hope everything is all good.
    Especially street BMX. When I ride my trials bike I fall more in one session than in an entire year of MTB.

    Watch Richie Rude do an almost perfect Judo roll here.....


  35. #35
    ~~~
    Reputation: tburger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    2,036
    If you're serious about doing more park riding, and you're investing in quality gear, I would also invest in coaching sessions. Crashing at Northstar or other resorts is no joke. It can go seriously bad really fast.

  36. #36
    always licking the glass
    Reputation: stripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,826
    Quote Originally Posted by Austin-nc View Post
    Have to agree with everyone that says to get a real full face. Amazing how many people I see wearing half shells at parks, just not worth it. Also I wouldn't say a profame is really a appropriate helmet for park DH. Might as well get a full weight helmet especially if your lift assisted.

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    Saw a guy in a cannonball lid eat it on a blue run at trestle. His face didnít look good at all. Chipped tooth and broken nose.

    He was also a bmxer so he knows what heís doing on a bike in the air but sometimes the mountain decides it wants to get in a fight with you, no matter how skilled you are.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
    https://classifieds.mtbr.com/showpro...product=116154

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    418
    man, sucks it happened to you, but good reminder for me...

    i have a whistler trip coming up in 6 days (stoked)

    got myself a DH rig reserved, bought myself a neck brace (atlas air 2019), alpine stars paragon plus vest(both on sale and cheap!), and will be using my raceface ambush knee guards, i do have a bell super DH (sufficient??)

    i feel i have a good gauge of my limits , but definitely want to progress the 3 days ill be riding there..

    ive double checked with my insurance to make sure im covered while in canada..

    wish me luck boys/gals

  38. #38
    NRP
    NRP is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    664
    Damn that sounds like an awesome trip!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

  39. #39
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Out of the box: I think helmets and pads, riding conservatively, etc are great. But the best form of injury prevention is to keep body weight down, strength and flexibility up. I see lots of guys past the age of 30 who are a bit pudgy, and very tight, a recipe for injury, and not just for mountain biking. Maybe this is why OP walked away with just minor injuries, strong and flexible? Doing Yoga or other mobility type exercising? That looked like a hospital level impact for many.
    Interesting observation. I'm 48. 5-7 150 with visible abs and a very good muscle structure for my age. I have been lifting weights since I was 16 and still do. I'm still puzzled. Day 4 after and it still feels like a truck hit me.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Get a MOTOCROSS full face. Don't use those flimsy DH-specific ones. They are dangerously inadequate if you are riding double black trails with big jumps, high speeds, and lots of rocks.

    Logged in for the first time in like 15 years to respond to this. For the love of god please disregard this idiotic post. A Moto helmet. Wtf.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by DH40 View Post
    That's one person's opinion. They are good enough for 99.7% of DH racers.
    More like 100%

  42. #42
    Up In Smoke
    Reputation: Train Wreck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,871
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Logged in for the first time in like 15 years to respond to this. For the love of god please disregard this idiotic post. A Moto helmet. Wtf.
    15 years of silence and then this epic first post! Nice

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    152
    Lol. It was just that bad I guess.

    To the OP, glad you're mostly okay. That looked really nasty.

  44. #44
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Logged in for the first time in like 15 years to respond to this. For the love of god please disregard this idiotic post. A Moto helmet. Wtf.
    If you want to crash on forty foot jumps or hit your head into a rock at 20mph with a Mountain bike helmet be my guest.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    299
    this thread makes me want to wear a giant airbag while ridingÖ

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    299
    this thread makes me want to wear a giant airbag while ridingÖ

    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.-maxresdefault.jpg

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Mr Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,987
    Quote Originally Posted by shapethings View Post
    this thread makes me want to wear a giant airbag while ridingÖ
    You can:

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    If you want to crash on forty foot jumps or hit your head into a rock at 20mph with a Mountain bike helmet be my guest.
    Curious where your science is.


    I'll just leave this right here:

    https://www.bellhelmets.com/community/bikes/aaron-gwin/

    Pretty sure you know who that guy is. He rides for Bell Helmets. Bell makes a pretty damned good Moto helmet. He rides the DH helmet while on his bike. Pretty sure he'd choose the Moto helmet if it truly was safer on a bike.

    Here's the big surprise.... it's not.

  49. #49
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    So just an update.

    First off thanks to everyone who commented.

    I'm still nurturing a hashed, previously tore rotator and my joints are popping with movement.

    The internal chest pain is dissipating to the point I only need Ibuprofen in the am when I wake up.



    This thing has caused me to re- assess.

    I've purchased "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills" by Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack. It's a great encyclopedia of knowledge and there's a lot I will be applying from it. Stuff I never heard of.

    I come from a BMX background, but I was told by my friend, who was an Eduro MTB semi-pro I still ride my FS like a hardtail.

    I lean back too much instead of loading the pedals, I don't focus on Pump, get light, get heavy and remaining in attack, centered position. I need to concentrate on neutral hands, not light, not heavy.....

    Over the next year I'll be working one skill at a time, and with that I'll progress. I'm still a few weeks out I think but ready to get back in the saddle soon for some light duty.

    My friends recent comment "You have 150MM of travel...act like it!"
    Last edited by Felt Ryder; 08-27-2019 at 01:34 PM. Reason: spelling

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: kevin_sbay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    This thing has caused me to re- assess.

    I've purchased "Mastering Mountain Bike Skills" by Brian Lopes and Lee McCormack. It's a great encyclopedia of knowledge and there's a lot I will be applying from it. Stuff I never heard of.

    I come from a BMX background, but I was told by my friend, who was an Eduro MTB semi-pro I still ride my FS like a hardtail.

    I lean back too much instead of loading the pedals, I don't focus on Pump, get light, get heavy and remaining in attack, centered position. I need to concentrate on neutral hands, not light, not heavy.....

    Over the next year I'll be working one skill at a time, and with that I'll progress. I'm still a few weeks out I think but ready to get back in the saddle soon for some light duty.

    My friends recent comment "You have 150MM of travel...act like it!"
    The journey of skills development is so rewarding, and of course frustrating at times . Good luck in your growth!

    Small comment: FYI, lots of what you mention directly applies to hardtails too... Load pedals, attack position, neutral hands, etc. At least for hardtails with front suspension.

  51. #51
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Curious where your science is.


    I'll just leave this right here:

    https://www.bellhelmets.com/community/bikes/aaron-gwin/

    Pretty sure you know who that guy is. He rides for Bell Helmets. Bell makes a pretty damned good Moto helmet. He rides the DH helmet while on his bike. Pretty sure he'd choose the Moto helmet if it truly was safer on a bike.

    Here's the big surprise.... it's not.
    There is no peer reviewed journal articles looking at DH v. DOT Moto helmets for DH riding. If there is I'm very interested in it. As a result pretty much anyone's claims (my own included) lack sufficient rigor.

    My thinking is based on 5 observations:
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding DH/MTB is wearing a DH helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding DH while wearing a Moto helmet.

    3. DH helmets feel flimsy as fvck and the foam easily "bottoms out" on even medium hits (seen this many times first hand). Moto helmets do not seem to bottom out. We can debate this for quite a while what's better, but in a "disaster situation" (you know the kind that kill you or cause permanent long term damage) you probably don't want it to bottom out.

    4. I'm not sure what this magical speed threshold is at which a DH helmet becomes more effective than a Moto helmet (no one seems to be able to answer this), but I'm pretty sure I am very frequently above that speed on my DH bike.

    5. Theres about 10x the amount of money, testing, and development that goes into Moto helmets.



    I'll just leave this right here. Pretty sure you know who this guy is. And he makes really poor choices on his helmets. He's got a lot more money on the line, and way more infrastructure, science, and people helping him make decisions.

    https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/04/...banned-by-nfl/

    I'd guess that Aaron Gwin doesn't know anything significant that we don't about helmet material science or concussion research. In fact I'd guess I've done more research on this than he has.

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RBoardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,503
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    There is no peer reviewed journal articles looking at DH v. DOT Moto helmets for DH riding. If there is I'm very interested in it. As a result pretty much anyone's claims (my own included) lack sufficient rigor.

    My thinking is based on 5 observations:
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding DH/MTB is wearing a DH helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding DH while wearing a Moto helmet.
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding motos is wearing a moto helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding motos while wearing a DH/mtb helmet.

    See, it seems silly when I say it, huh?

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by f0nz0 View Post
    man, sucks it happened to you, but good reminder for me...

    i have a whistler trip coming up in 6 days (stoked)

    got myself a DH rig reserved, bought myself a neck brace (atlas air 2019), alpine stars paragon plus vest(both on sale and cheap!), and will be using my raceface ambush knee guards, i do have a bell super DH (sufficient??)

    i feel i have a good gauge of my limits , but definitely want to progress the 3 days ill be riding there..

    ive double checked with my insurance to make sure im covered while in canada..

    wish me luck boys/gals
    Super DH should be more than enough. Looks like the weather is going to be perfect for you up in Whistler. Just make sure you do some warm up laps and just build throughout your trip and you'll be fine. Lots of fun to be had ripping crank it up to get warm... hell I could run laps on there all day and be content.

  54. #54
    huck to flat
    Reputation: The Trail Bum's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    696
    that was hilarious. classic seat bounce to OTB.
    Send it to Pink Bike for Fail Friday.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Are you serious.....

    1. That literally means nothing.
    2. That literally means nothing.
    3. That is personal opinion.
    4. There's plenty of science into the average speed of impact for helmets by discipline. It's part of the certification process depending on certification. That's why you by a DH helmet to ride DH and a snow helmet to snowboard.
    5. I'd be curious if this is accurate even in the slightest. Think about how many people ride Moto vs. how many people ride bikes.


    Beyond that... are you seriously comparing a football player to a cyclist? Tom Brady has a choice of a couple helmets that the team offers. He wears the one he likes and moves on. They're given a set choice that the NFL decides what is safe and what is not. A cyclist has a choice between far more brands as well as styles. They're just told it needs to be DH certified for DH racing.

    Seriously. Your posts are giving me a headache.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    There is no peer reviewed journal articles looking at DH v. DOT Moto helmets for DH riding. If there is I'm very interested in it. As a result pretty much anyone's claims (my own included) lack sufficient rigor.

    My thinking is based on 5 observations:
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding DH/MTB is wearing a DH helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding DH while wearing a Moto helmet.

    3. DH helmets feel flimsy as fvck and the foam easily "bottoms out" on even medium hits (seen this many times first hand). Moto helmets do not seem to bottom out. We can debate this for quite a while what's better, but in a "disaster situation" (you know the kind that kill you or cause permanent long term damage) you probably don't want it to bottom out.

    4. I'm not sure what this magical speed threshold is at which a DH helmet becomes more effective than a Moto helmet (no one seems to be able to answer this), but I'm pretty sure I am very frequently above that speed on my DH bike.

    5. Theres about 10x the amount of money, testing, and development that goes into Moto helmets.



    I'll just leave this right here. Pretty sure you know who this guy is. And he makes really poor choices on his helmets. He's got a lot more money on the line, and way more infrastructure, science, and people helping him make decisions.

    https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/04/...banned-by-nfl/

    I'd guess that Aaron Gwin doesn't know anything significant that we don't about helmet material science or concussion research. In fact I'd guess I've done more research on this than he has.

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    Thanks man. I think I had a mild Concussion. This the helmet...now retired.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_1288.jpg 
Views:	182 
Size:	239.4 KB 
ID:	1273389
    Holy crap I have the same helmet. And my brother bought me a real full face helmet for Christmas. I should start using that when I go to Northstar instead of my bell.

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    280
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Out of the box: I think helmets and pads, riding conservatively, etc are great. But the best form of injury prevention is to keep body weight down, strength and flexibility up. I see lots of guys past the age of 30 who are a bit pudgy, and very tight, a recipe for injury, and not just for mountain biking. Maybe this is why OP walked away with just minor injuries, strong and flexible? Doing Yoga or other mobility type exercising? That looked like a hospital level impact for many.
    I have only seen a half dozen humans that are "pudgy" while MTBing or snowboarding. I think these activities are too strenuous and if you keep doing it you'll start to lean out.

    Although I did just get back from Whistler and I saw a lady as big as Oprah with a full face helmet on a DH bike. Props to her for riding on such a beautiful day and I dont mean to disparage anyone for their appearance. Just don't see this very often.

  58. #58
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    No lie. Injury potential dramatically increases for larger folks. Trust me.

    People trip on me when they see my snowboard. I weigh 240 pounds and I crush people. Usually first one on and last one off the lifts. Etc. But falling... falling is no joke. Takes a bit longer to get back up. On a bike it's way worse.

    But like you said... just keep doing it and be smart and you'll lean out. I was 270 last winter. I'm about 235 right now. Taking a year off from everything with an injury sucked.

    OP. Glad you're recovering dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantastic79 View Post
    I have only seen a half dozen humans that are "pudgy" while MTBing or snowboarding. I think these activities are too strenuous and if you keep doing it you'll start to lean out.

    Although I did just get back from Whistler and I saw a lady as big as Oprah with a full face helmet on a DH bike. Props to her for riding on such a beautiful day and I dont mean to disparage anyone for their appearance. Just don't see this very often.

  59. #59
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    No lie. Injury potential dramatically increases for larger folks. Trust me.

    People trip on me when they see my snowboard. I weigh 240 pounds and I crush people. Usually first one on and last one off the lifts. Etc. But falling... falling is no joke. Takes a bit longer to get back up. On a bike it's way worse.

    But like you said... just keep doing it and be smart and you'll lean out. I was 270 last winter. I'm about 235 right now. Taking a year off from everything with an injury sucked.

    OP. Glad you're recovering dude.
    Injury potential increases exponentially when strength to weigh ratio decreases. A good test of strength to weight is a pull up bar.

    The key variable to "leaning out" is diet. I was a wrestler for a long time, I do know a few things about weight gain and loss!

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    There is no peer reviewed journal articles looking at DH v. DOT Moto helmets for DH riding. If there is I'm very interested in it. As a result pretty much anyone's claims (my own included) lack sufficient rigor.

    My thinking is based on 5 observations:
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding DH/MTB is wearing a DH helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding DH while wearing a Moto helmet.

    3. DH helmets feel flimsy as fvck and the foam easily "bottoms out" on even medium hits (seen this many times first hand). Moto helmets do not seem to bottom out. We can debate this for quite a while what's better, but in a "disaster situation" (you know the kind that kill you or cause permanent long term damage) you probably don't want it to bottom out.

    4. I'm not sure what this magical speed threshold is at which a DH helmet becomes more effective than a Moto helmet (no one seems to be able to answer this), but I'm pretty sure I am very frequently above that speed on my DH bike.

    5. Theres about 10x the amount of money, testing, and development that goes into Moto helmets.



    I'll just leave this right here. Pretty sure you know who this guy is. And he makes really poor choices on his helmets. He's got a lot more money on the line, and way more infrastructure, science, and people helping him make decisions.

    https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/04/...banned-by-nfl/

    I'd guess that Aaron Gwin doesn't know anything significant that we don't about helmet material science or concussion research. In fact I'd guess I've done more research on this than he has.
    Massive Bike Park OTB Crash - Question for Northstar Riders.-1556159559848.jpg

  61. #61
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    ^^^ And, MTBR NorCal is made up of more or less peers, so this is peer review, right? We are doing peer reviewed studies here!

  62. #62
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by 5k bike 50cent legs View Post
    Injury potential increases exponentially when strength to weigh ratio decreases. A good test of strength to weight is a pull up bar.

    The key variable to "leaning out" is diet. I was a wrestler for a long time, I do know a few things about weight gain and loss!
    24 personal best

  63. #63
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Quote Originally Posted by Felt Ryder View Post
    24 personal best
    That would probably put you in the top 99.9999% of the population! STRONG!

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    152
    Sitting at about 20 right now. Was in the low 30s at my peak and had to stop because of an injury to my right forearm. I've been slowly increasing again but I have to be careful.
    If you want to see something awesome, check out a vid of someone doing one handed pull ups. Totally awesome imho. I have never been able to do one despite being able to do so many with both arms.

  65. #65
    Moderator Moderator
    Reputation: 5k bike 50cent legs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    5,508
    Quote Originally Posted by JaxMustang50 View Post
    Sitting at about 20 right now. Was in the low 30s at my peak and had to stop because of an injury to my right forearm. I've been slowly increasing again but I have to be careful.
    If you want to see something awesome, check out a vid of someone doing one handed pull ups. Totally awesome imho. I have never been able to do one despite being able to do so many with both arms.
    Oh yeah, those one arm pull ups are crazy. Google: David Goggins pullups

  66. #66
    Hella Olde
    Reputation: DH40's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,240
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    More like 100%
    I wear a 100% Aircraft but yeah I left room for the statistical outlier in the room

  67. #67
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    1. Everyone I see who gets a (real) concussion while riding motos is wearing a moto helmet

    2. I've never seen anyone get a concussion riding motos while wearing a DH/mtb helmet.

    See, it seems silly when I say it, huh?
    Huh? That's not a reasonable response to my comments. My comment was comparing 2 helmet types (DOT and F192 or whatever it's called) and a single sport (MTB) which attempts to de-convolute the impact of a second variable, which is held constant in both cases. You made 2 statements where you changed 2 variables at once, making the comparison meaningless. So yes, your comment seems silly.


    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Are you serious.....
    Iím just engaging in an honest conversation and sharing my thought process and trying to avoid personal attacks. SoÖyes? It would be nice if others here could try the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post

    1. That literally means nothing.
    2. That literally means nothing.
    3. That is personal opinion.
    Okay, show me your data. Iíd love to see real statistical/quantitative data.
    Okay, show me your data. Iíd love to see real statistical/quantitative data.
    Okay.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    4. There's plenty of science into the average speed of impact for helmets by discipline. It's part of the certification process depending on certification. That's why you by a DH helmet to ride DH and a snow helmet to snowboard.
    I canít find any reasonable empirical data on comparing DOT to DH helmet certification (In terms of A-B comparison of the results of 2 given commercially available helmets). I would love it if you could provide your sources. Iím interested in reading them. Because I think thereís arenít easy answers which Iíll get to in a second. Thereís lot of media articles lacking real data, and forum posts like this. But nothing like a peer review journal article that Iíve been able to find. If you dig deep and look at the actual certification process itís actually not that much different. The DOT helmets are rated for 2 instead of 1 impact (I always replace after the first anyways) and they have additional penetration testing. The applied forces and maximum acceleration forces are really not that much different though oddly enough.

    I would just love for one day for someone to tell me what that magical threshold is for a Moto helmet to become more dangerous than a DH helmet. Iím pretty sure when Iím hitting 15 foot drops on Dirt Merchant, or 40+ foot tables on Crabapple that I should be wearing a Moto helmet.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    A
    5. I'd be curious if this is accurate even in the slightest. Think about how many people ride Moto vs. how many people ride bikes.
    Motorcycle sales (including street bikes) is about 500k/year (peaked at over 1million ~10 years ago). Motocross bike sales about 50k/year if memory serves me correctly. They used to be well over 100k back in the early 2000ís. Plus those bikes tend to stay in operation a lot longer than DH bikes. Iíd estimate (just pulling this out of my ass) there canít be more than 2k DH bikes sales annually (All numbers Iím quoting are within US). If you include 6Ē travel bikes you might be up to 10-20k? I dunno? But Motocross sales are DEFINITELY at least a factor of 2 higher, and bikes in use (which is probably the more valid statistic) is 10x, or maybe even 100x more. Just go out to any Moto track on an average weekend anywhere in the country. Thereís many many many more people there riding than any average local DH trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Beyond that... are you seriously comparing a football player to a cyclist? Tom Brady has a choice of a couple helmets that the team offers. He wears the one he likes and moves on. They're given a set choice that the NFL decides what is safe and what is not. A cyclist has a choice between far more brands as well as styles. They're just told it needs to be DH certified for DH racing.
    First, plenty of pro DH riders wear Moto helmets. Itís by no means a settled subject, which is what makes it interesting. Hereís a picture of former WC racer Elliot Jackson wearing a Shoei, last time I checked they donít make DH helmetsÖ
    elliot-jackson-yeti.jpg

    Second, you may want to read up on football helmets a bit more. There are aboutÖ.4 mfgs.ís I believe? And they each have a range of helmets. Thereís so double digit amount of helmet models in production every year that meet the certifications, and some amount below 100 in cumulative helmets that are out of production but considered meeting the standard. Typically the athletes just choose from that list. It is not determined by the team. (Read up on Antonio Brown if you want to see some crazy drama!)


    To the final question that should be VERY easy to answer if the science is as settled as you claim it is
    1. If Iím riding the downeville downhill trail on my 6 inch travel bike, what helmet should I wear?
    2. If Iím riding the downeville downhill trail on my motocross bike, what helmet should I wear?

    Now remember my average speeds and peak speeds are quite similar!


    P.S. Ski helmets are a joke. I canít imagine crashing in one of those things at 50+ MPH. I guess thatís one of threatens why so many people die skiing compared to Moto and MTB.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    You ride your motorcycle on downeville downhill trails?

    I honestly didn't read most of that. Sorry.


    Ski helmets... most definitely not a joke.

    Why you containing your research dollars to DH helmets? A lot of people ride bikes that are not DH.

    Elliot Jackson rides for 100%

  69. #69
    Professional Troll
    Reputation: Gemini2k05's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,446
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    You ride your motorcycle on downeville downhill trails?
    Yes, they are originally Moto trails. Fun to ride down, but maybe even more fun to ride up.


    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    I honestly didn't read most of that. Sorry.
    Nice



    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Ski helmets... most definitely not a joke.
    The fact that you still see guys hit 100+ foot jumps without a full face in mind-blowing to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post

    Elliot Jackson rides for 100%
    Maybe now he does. He didn't for his entire racing career. Regardless, lots of DH pros wear Moto helmets (Gwin did too for a while in fact).

    Also, you didn't answer my question, what helmet should I wear riding Downieville? I thought this question would be so easy that it would make your head hurt.

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    75
    Thanks for posting this vid and all the comments y'all. After reading this, I went out and bought a full-face and goggles. I already use knee pads regularly for most pedal rides. Gloves too of course.

    Tahoe Sports Hub was running 30% on everything, so I grabbed a Fox Proframe and some goggles. The Proframe is unbelievably lightweight and amazingly well-ventilated, but still DH certified. I plan on using it on short (less than 20 miles) pedal rides, our local pump track/bike park, and the 3-5 times a year I ride lifts.

    I have tried a lot and owned of helmets over the years, but the two I've gotten in the last year - the Proframe and the Mammut Wall Rider (BC skiing/mountaineering) - both are amazing for their intended use - and way, WAY better than the old stuff. When getting 1 stitch can cost you hundreds of dollars, investing in quality protection is worth every penny imo.

    I also think eyewear is safety protection. Takes only one corneal scratch to believe that, much less trying to see when your eyes are covered in a fine film of Sierran moondust.

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation: The111's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    123
    Quote Originally Posted by bdamschen View Post
    I noticed that once I started to add more pads getting me closer to michelin man status, my range of motion gets limited and it's harder to recover from mistakes.
    Bingo. I *really* wanted to wear a neck brace when I got into DH, but every single one I've tried limits my head motion way too much, to the point where I feel unsafe. I tip my head back a lot during turns, to look ahead. Neck brace was blocking that. I wear XXL helmet, maybe that has something to do with it.

    Same with chest protector, just makes me feel too rigid. I do wear one of these for spine protection from impact. That's probably the biggest thing I wear outside of a good helmet and knee/elbow.

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    In 1939 Riddell started making plastic football helmets. In 1948 they were banned. 1949 unbanned. 1950 they were pretty much standard. Meaning.... doesnít matter what people used to wear.

    At down... if itís me I wear a moto helmet on a not. Dh helmet riding dh. Unless you want to keep it simple and buy the multi certified kali lid.

    And I agree... people sending 100 foot jumps in half shells are idiots... then again I canít wrap my head around bmx and skaters pretty much never wearing helmets. But thatís me.

  73. #73
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RBoardman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,503
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    In 1939 Riddell started making plastic football helmets. In 1948 they were banned. 1949 unbanned. 1950 they were pretty much standard. Meaning.... doesnít matter what people used to wear.
    Oh donít get started with banned football helmets...

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Oh donít get started with banned football helmets...
    Whatever Antonio lets do this! Lol

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    @OP... not sure if you mentioned it already but if you haven't got a new lid yet you should reach out to Bell. They have a pretty good crash replacement policy. Probably give you 40-50% off a replacement. My suggestion would be to get a sixer for trail riding and get a true DH lid for you resort riding. If you're stuck on one helmet just get the Super DH.

    I've been running a Sixer for awhile. Good helmet.

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    @OP... not sure if you mentioned it already but if you haven't got a new lid yet you should reach out to Bell. They have a pretty good crash replacement policy. Probably give you 40-50% off a replacement. My suggestion would be to get a sixer for trail riding and get a true DH lid for you resort riding. If you're stuck on one helmet just get the Super DH.

    I've been running a Sixer for awhile. Good helmet.
    I run a Sixer for trails and a Full 9 for DH stuff. Both are great and I love em.

  77. #77
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    @OP... not sure if you mentioned it already but if you haven't got a new lid yet you should reach out to Bell. They have a pretty good crash replacement policy. Probably give you 40-50% off a replacement. My suggestion would be to get a sixer for trail riding and get a true DH lid for you resort riding. If you're stuck on one helmet just get the Super DH.

    I've been running a Sixer for awhile. Good helmet.
    I just sent the request in. Thank you!!!

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jimw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    662
    I think maybe the biggest problem was that you kept riding a rental bike that you were clearly not comfortable on from the get-go. Combine that with unfamiliar trails and possibly jumps that only flow properly at a certain speed, that's a recipe for disaster. Ideally if you rented the bike on-mountain, take it back and explain the issues, it quite possibly could have had the setup tweaked to better match you. If that's not an option, and the only option if you want to keep riding is to keep riding a bike you're not confortable on, then don't push it in other dimensions. Ride the same trail a few times, hitting the same trail sections but changing something each time, whether it's a shock/fork rebound/compression adjustment, your speed, etc. See if you can dial it in a bit to the point where you feel more comfortable with the bike itself before pushing it on other unfamiliar or harder trails.

    If you want a convertible helmet, upgrade to the Super DH, it is miles beyond the Super 3R and is actually DH certified. Spherical MIPS is pretty damn cool tech, I think we'll see that coming to other helmets. Don't use the crash replacement if the only option is to get the exact model you just destroyed. Also, half the time you can find that particular model online for cheaper than their crash replacement off retail (most are closeouts of certain colors etc).

    I always get annoyed when people here freely dispense advice about jumping technique, when many of them would probably think a 10 foot double is huge (which it is when you don't have a lot of experience jumping). Take technique recommendations here with a grain of salt. As others have mentioned, taking a clinic from a reputable coach is a great idea and better than any advice you're going to find on an internet forum or in a book (though the book you picked up is a good one generally speaking).

    I do feel like I need to respond to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    I don't think you have a concussion. Otherwise, you will be screwed and you should be away for the computer or any tv.
    This is inaccurate at best, just plain misinformation at worst. I have personally had 2 concussions due to a bike crash in the past couple years (incidentally, I was wearing a Super 2R in both cases, though in these particular cases I don't think a full DH or Moto hemet would have made a difference... though not having the chinbar most definitely would have been worse). First one I woke up in the hospital with no idea what happened or how I got there, and to this day there's a solid 8 hours that are just completely missing from my memory. However, there were zero residual effects. Now, I realize that everyone's response to a concussion is different (and I was extremely lucky), but that's part of the reason I'm calling this out. What you say might be true for some people, but it is certainly not true in general. I'm a software developer that is in front of a computer most of the day, and there was no problem with that from either concussion. I was back at work within a couple days in both cases. YMMV.

    The second concussion was not due to actually hitting my head in the normal sense (as far as I can piece together since I can't actually remember it, but there are enough physical clues). I think it was from crashing on a jump and smacking my face into the bars. More detail on that incident as well as some advice on wrist guards (super helpful in the unavoidable cases where you crash with your hands out even though you're a super duper ex-judo bmx ninja) over here. But the person who commented about just picking up some googles for the first time reminded me of that crash, because just like helmets, goggles vary in quality/protection. In that particular crash I'm 99% sure I smacked into the bars directly on my googles (in the hole in the full face helmet, so not even a moto helmet would have helped), there's a huge scratch on the goggles right below my left eye where I had a "ZMC" fracture. Those particular goggles had a very soft pliable lens. I subsequently switched to goggles with a stiff impact-resistant lens (Oakley Airbrake). Something to consider.

    A moto roost guard/chest protector can make your day if you crash in rocky terrain (like N*).

    Oh yeah, and NEVER say "last run". That guarantees you'll crash. I'm currently recovering from broken ribs a week ago on my "last run". I made that same sound.

    I'm actually a tad older than you, and shit just takes a lot longer to heal these days even with otherwise being in good shape, so it's definitely worth wearing as much protective gear as you can, but not to the point of diminishing returns where it restricts your range of motion such that it reduces your ability to actually maneuver the bike. You might not win any style points with the slopestyle half shell skinny jeans kids, but how many of them will be unbroken enough to even ride when they're your age?

  79. #79
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by jimw View Post
    I think maybe the biggest problem was that you kept riding a rental bike that you were clearly not comfortable on from the get-go. Combine that with unfamiliar trails and possibly jumps that only flow properly at a certain speed, that's a recipe for disaster. Ideally if you rented the bike on-mountain, take it back and explain the issues, it quite possibly could have had the setup tweaked to better match you. If that's not an option, and the only option if you want to keep riding is to keep riding a bike you're not confortable on, then don't push it in other dimensions. Ride the same trail a few times, hitting the same trail sections but changing something each time, whether it's a shock/fork rebound/compression adjustment, your speed, etc. See if you can dial it in a bit to the point where you feel more comfortable with the bike itself before pushing it on other unfamiliar or harder trails.

    If you want a convertible helmet, upgrade to the Super DH, it is miles beyond the Super 3R and is actually DH certified. Spherical MIPS is pretty damn cool tech, I think we'll see that coming to other helmets. Don't use the crash replacement if the only option is to get the exact model you just destroyed. Also, half the time you can find that particular model online for cheaper than their crash replacement off retail (most are closeouts of certain colors etc).

    I always get annoyed when people here freely dispense advice about jumping technique, when many of them would probably think a 10 foot double is huge (which it is when you don't have a lot of experience jumping). Take technique recommendations here with a grain of salt. As others have mentioned, taking a clinic from a reputable coach is a great idea and better than any advice you're going to find on an internet forum or in a book (though the book you picked up is a good one generally speaking).

    I do feel like I need to respond to this:



    This is inaccurate at best, just plain misinformation at worst. I have personally had 2 concussions due to a bike crash in the past couple years (incidentally, I was wearing a Super 2R in both cases, though in these particular cases I don't think a full DH or Moto hemet would have made a difference... though not having the chinbar most definitely would have been worse). First one I woke up in the hospital with no idea what happened or how I got there, and to this day there's a solid 8 hours that are just completely missing from my memory. However, there were zero residual effects. Now, I realize that everyone's response to a concussion is different (and I was extremely lucky), but that's part of the reason I'm calling this out. What you say might be true for some people, but it is certainly not true in general. I'm a software developer that is in front of a computer most of the day, and there was no problem with that from either concussion. I was back at work within a couple days in both cases. YMMV.

    The second concussion was not due to actually hitting my head in the normal sense (as far as I can piece together since I can't actually remember it, but there are enough physical clues). I think it was from crashing on a jump and smacking my face into the bars. More detail on that incident as well as some advice on wrist guards (super helpful in the unavoidable cases where you crash with your hands out even though you're a super duper ex-judo bmx ninja) over here. But the person who commented about just picking up some googles for the first time reminded me of that crash, because just like helmets, goggles vary in quality/protection. In that particular crash I'm 99% sure I smacked into the bars directly on my googles (in the hole in the full face helmet, so not even a moto helmet would have helped), there's a huge scratch on the goggles right below my left eye where I had a "ZMC" fracture. Those particular goggles had a very soft pliable lens. I subsequently switched to goggles with a stiff impact-resistant lens (Oakley Airbrake). Something to consider.

    A moto roost guard/chest protector can make your day if you crash in rocky terrain (like N*).

    Oh yeah, and NEVER say "last run". That guarantees you'll crash. I'm currently recovering from broken ribs a week ago on my "last run". I made that same sound.

    I'm actually a tad older than you, and shit just takes a lot longer to heal these days even with otherwise being in good shape, so it's definitely worth wearing as much protective gear as you can, but not to the point of diminishing returns where it restricts your range of motion such that it reduces your ability to actually maneuver the bike. You might not win any style points with the slopestyle half shell skinny jeans kids, but how many of them will be unbroken enough to even ride when they're your age?
    This is much appreciated! Thank you for the detailed, clear and informative response. You took all the information provided and crunched it into an analytic response.

    For now I'll be avoiding the bike parks until i get a full range of motion and strength in the shoulders. They are injured and re injured a lot. It seems like any time I go down there will be shoulder issues from the socket impact. For now the soft tissue deep and seeming under the rib cage is still very sore.

    I'll be riding some easy blue trails in the next week or two. Bell gave me a 30% discount code toward the next purchase.

    Heal up!

  80. #80
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Turns out I have an AC separation from this crash. Anyone had this and did you surgically repair?

  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Depends on the degree of the injury. Have you gone in for a consultation yet?

    Example...

    Tahnee Seagrave had an AC Separation that required surgery and cost her most of the season.

    Aaron Gwin had AC Injuries to both shoulders. Neither required surgery but he's still working his way back into healthy.

    If possible, avoid surgery and seek

  82. #82
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Quote Originally Posted by OneManArmy View Post
    Depends on the degree of the injury. Have you gone in for a consultation yet?

    Example...

    Tahnee Seagrave had an AC Separation that required surgery and cost her most of the season.

    Aaron Gwin had AC Injuries to both shoulders. Neither required surgery but he's still working his way back into healthy.

    If possible, avoid surgery and seek
    Yeah itís grade 2 at least. The shoulder bump is there, and it wasnít before, but it gives me the willies to think itís just loose in there and not tied to the joint. Iím sure itís non surgical. Doctor next week to see the degree. I would prefer to tie the ligament back for piece of mind but Iím sure insurance wouldnít deem it necessary.

    Iíve been wondering what all the clicking and pain was. A semi pro rider friend saw the fall and sent me the injury description and everything lines up from the impact of an outstretched arm to the symptoms, pain and visible top shoulder bump. I can even press down on the bump and it moves! Ehhh it just feels wrong in there!!

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24
    Basically all you have to do is prove you can do a day to day task and they have to cover it. Example... can you reach over your head and pull a stack of plates out of a cabinet. If not... they pay.

    Mine was jacked. And I split my shoulder cap muscle... deltoid or wtf ever it's called... in half. So my shoulder was just pushing out. Talking 15 plus dislocations over a couple years. 2 surgeons wanted to tie it up with a cable. 1 said I could do a bunch of PT. So I did a year of PT. Hard work tied in with often twice a week massages.... but not the good kind. It hasn't popped out in like 12 years but I do have arthritis and my range of motion isn't perfect. If it happened the same way today with today's techniques... I'd do surgery.

    Get a doctor your trust... and trust em.

  84. #84
    J-Flo
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,692
    I had a grade 1 AC separation a couple years ago. No treatment other than staying off the MTB for two weeks and off the full-suspension bike for about four weeks when my range of motion started to return.

    That break from rough riding dealt a long-term blow to my mojo though. And just when I was getting back into it the following summer I had a bad 10 foot fall off the steep side of a trail and broke two ribs in my back. Iím slowly coming back from that combination, two years later. My suggestion would be to dive right back into it as soon as your body is ready, lest that mojo become elusive.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  85. #85
    NorCal Trail Rides
    Reputation: Felt Ryder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    87
    Here's an update on my condition.

    I was diagnosed with Grade 4, then Grade 2 AC Separation as well as a massive retracted rotator cuff tear (I didn't really even know) which likely will be a cuff replacement. Dec 11 Surgery. 2 in one procedure.

    I'll be updating the recovery on the channel:
    https://youtu.be/AvXu6XYU8z4

Similar Threads

  1. Granite Bay Ride and OTB Crash
    By Felt Ryder in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 01-22-2019, 05:54 PM
  2. what are some good tips to prevent the superman crash (otb)
    By brainhulk in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-21-2013, 02:04 PM
  3. Avid Elixir 7 Carbons Cause OTB crash
    By FreuderLocks in forum Brake Time
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-21-2012, 12:27 PM
  4. Recovery after severe OTB crash?
    By Wasmachineman NL in forum Rider Down, injuries and recovery
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 06-25-2012, 08:36 PM
  5. OTB crash what's wrong w/ my wrists ?
    By keen in forum Rider Down, injuries and recovery
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-06-2008, 04:33 PM

Members who have read this thread: 532

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.