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  1. #1
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    Looks Like Annadel Took a Stand On E-Bikes

    From the CA State Parks Website for Trione-Annadel State Park (Trione-Annadel SP), there's a statement: "Electric-Assist or “E-bikes” are considered motorized vehicles and are not allowed in the park."

    I'm a little surprised because just a few weeks ago, I was talking with the ranger and he said that they were still considering what to do with them.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post

    I'm a little surprised because just a few weeks ago, I was talking with the ranger and he said that they were still considering what to do with them.
    Well, sounds like they considered...and then made their decision!

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    i got no skin in the game. i've only seen maybe three of them..one guy was talking to the ranger while sitting on it. quick glance they look like regular bikes to me. i dont pay attention much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces View Post
    Well, sounds like they considered...and then made their decision!
    Same for all our SP here on the coast. There was no hesitation on the part of the Superintendent Loren Rex. The ban mandate is true for the JDSF as well. Now, only if we could control the motorcycle insurgents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i got no skin in the game. i've only seen maybe three of them..one guy was talking to the ranger while sitting on it. quick glance they look like regular bikes to me. i dont pay attention much.
    I remember that. I was in the latter end of that conversation and I know the rider, Will.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    i rode in the middle of the heat yesterday. wish i had an "push" yesterday.

    got to the top and my wife texted me she was going to be late..phossh! trail-house for a pint of BLIND PIG!

    on a side note, it was amazing how crowded it got at Annadel at 6:15pm..everyone smarter than me, rode up in the cooler hours. it was like a town meeting up there.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i rode in the middle of the heat yesterday. wish i had an "push" yesterday.

    got to the top and my wife texted me she was going to be late..phossh! trail-house for a pint of BLIND PIG!

    on a side note, it was amazing how crowded it got at Annadel at 6:15pm..everyone smarter than me, rode up in the cooler hours. it was like a town meeting up there.
    It was packed! I rode with my son at around 6:15-ish. We came up Canyon and the picnic table area was PACKED. My kid and I continued up Marsh and Ridge and only encountered one cyclist. We got to the Trail House at 8:00-ish for a beer.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    It was packed! I rode with my son at around 6:15-ish. We came up Canyon and the picnic table area was PACKED. My kid and I continued up Marsh and Ridge and only encountered one cyclist. We got to the Trail House at 8:00-ish for a beer.
    haha..i was that dude on the orange bike coming down Canyon going against the flow. i felt like a salmon. i went down at damn near 6:15 cuz i took the time to look at my watch to note when the rush-hour was.

    "excuse me, excuse me..my bad..err, i go right..no left.your other left!" jk.

    i'm gonna try going up Spring tonight.. i'm not great at it
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    haha..i was that dude on the orange bike coming down Canyon going against the flow. i felt like a salmon. i went down at damn near 6:15 cuz i took the time to look at my watch to note when the rush-hour was.

    "excuse me, excuse me..my bad..err, i go right..no left.your other left!" jk.

    i'm gonna try going up Spring tonight.. i'm not great at it
    Dude, up Spring Creek is hard, period.

    I think your bike (Orange Santa Cruz?) was leaning on the picnic table as we arrived at the top of Canyon. I was on the black Schwinn Homegrown hardtail and my son was behind me on a Norco Sight.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    I saw a guy on Sunday who had managed to launch himself off the trail while CLIMBING Spring Creek on an e-bike. Myself and several others stopped and tried to help get him and his contraption back on the trail, but he was far too manly to accept assistance from others. The only assistance he needed was the electronic kind, apparently. Glad to hear Annadel has taken this stance.

  11. #11
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    I wish Annadel was my neighborhood state park. Mt. Diablo is horselord territory.
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  12. #12
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    jerks. the public should be able to access public lands in a reasonable manner

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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    jerks. the public should be able to access public lands in a reasonable manner
    Agreed! Why can't I take my 4wd supercrew longbed F150 on these trails!?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast4aSlowGuy View Post
    I saw a guy on Sunday who had managed to launch himself off the trail while CLIMBING Spring Creek on an e-bike. Myself and several others stopped and tried to help get him and his contraption back on the trail, but he was far too manly to accept assistance from others. The only assistance he needed was the electronic kind, apparently. Glad to hear Annadel has taken this stance.
    He was probably just embarrassed. Let's not judge too much. Hikers often feel the same about us on our contraptions when we fall off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    Agreed! Why can't I take my 4wd supercrew longbed F150 on these trails!?! ...and bring my AR15 shotgun bazooka, dammit!
    Fixed it for ya! You're welcome.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fast4aSlowGuy View Post
    I saw a guy on Sunday who had managed to launch himself off the trail while CLIMBING Spring Creek on an e-bike. Myself and several others stopped and tried to help get him and his contraption back on the trail, but he was far too manly to accept assistance from others. The only assistance he needed was the electronic kind, apparently. Glad to hear Annadel has taken this stance.
    Haha, I was the guy in the green shirt trying to help those guys, they were super rude to people trying to help. Shops renting e-bikes in the area should be made aware of this too, just so they can let people know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Fixed it for ya! You're welcome.
    I think you guys are intentionally misrepresenting what I am saying. the key word is reasonable. electric assist bikes dont cause any more problems than purely human powered bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    I think you guys are intentionally misrepresenting what I am saying. the key word is reasonable. electric assist bikes dont cause any more problems than purely human powered bikes.
    Is there some scientific evidence for this statement, please post a link to the info. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by talon02 View Post
    Haha, I was the guy in the green shirt trying to help those guys, they were super rude to people trying to help. Shops renting e-bikes in the area should be made aware of this too, just so they can let people know.
    Well, we tried...I was descending Spring Creek and stopped to help, but when the guy snapped that we were "only making things worse" by telling him to let us grab the bike(as he slid down the embankment for the third time), I decided that the best option for both of us was for me to continue on my merry way.

  20. #20
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    I'm sure it would follow the same evidence very closely as non E-bikes. It's not like they have enough HP to be throwing rooster tails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rox View Post
    I think you guys are intentionally misrepresenting what I am saying. the key word is reasonable. electric assist bikes dont cause any more problems than purely human powered bikes.
    Yeah, we were having fun with you. Listen, there is an E-bike specific forum to discuss the pros and cons of E-bikes. I only started this thread to state that Annadel has taken a position on them, which I found to be a little surprising. Whether or not they should be allowed can be discussed in the appropriate forum.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    Agreed! Why can't I take my 4wd supercrew longbed F150 on these trails!?!
    Because if it broke down or ran out of gas, how are you going to get out of there? You might die trying to walk out, or cost American taxpayers too much money for your search and rescue! You're welcome to bring your F150 to Annadel, just leave it in the parking lot

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    Quote Originally Posted by Empty_Beer View Post
    Because if it broke down or ran out of gas, how are you going to get out of there? You might die trying to walk out, or cost American taxpayers too much money for your search and rescue! You're welcome to bring your F150 to Annadel, just leave it in the parking lot
    Same with your e-bike
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  24. #24
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    The fanaticism against ebikes is still going strong.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Same with your e-bike
    And my mountain bike??
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    And my mountain bike??
    I bet if you got your mountain bike in, you'd be able to get it out. If you need an ebike to get anywhere, you probably couldn't walk out if it ran out of juice.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    I bet if you got your mountain bike in, you'd be able to get it out. If you need an ebike to get anywhere, you probably couldn't walk out if it ran out of juice.
    The problem with this argument is so many, many people have been stranded by the mountain bike. Specially in a place where it starts out with a downhill like Henry Coe. Folks roll down or soft-pedal for 10 miles and encounter a problem. Or they just get going a little too far on rolly terrain and get too hot or too hungry and can't make it back. Hikers have argued that we don't 'deserve' to be out there.

    Bikers get help or get rescued and that's ok. We adapt and figure it out pretty fast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    The problem with this argument is so many, many people have been stranded by the mountain bike. Specially in a place where it starts out with a downhill like Henry Coe. Folks roll down or soft-pedal for 10 miles and encounter a problem. Or they just get going a little too far on rolly terrain and get too hot or too hungry and can't make it back. Hikers have argued that we don't 'deserve' to be out there.

    Bikers get help or get rescued and that's ok. We adapt and figure it out pretty fast.
    Well, dumbasses aside. How many hikers get stuck on cliffs and have to be longlined out every year?
    I think that "most" mountain bikers, that start riding learn what their limits are and realize how hard it is to get back once you start. We don't start with 35 mile 3k climbs the first time we get on a bike. We see how hard a 7mile 850ft climb can be if you don't ride a bike all the time. I don't think "most" ebikers know that.
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

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    Quote Originally Posted by LargeMan View Post
    Is there some scientific evidence for this statement, please post a link to the info. Thanks.
    I made an assertion based on available evidence. its up to you to post links to evidence that states otherwise. I can play this game all day

  30. #30
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    Looks Like Annadel Took a Stand On E-Bikes-cbb1559bb482c7a76c83273b2c8da851cd585db8b9ddfd53859e109d16b8f209.jpg

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    I was riding in Annadel this evening. Coming down Rough go at dusk I saw some guy on turbo Levo nailing a climb on some side trail, a trail I can never clean. Then I finished my ride...that's it. That's the whole story.

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    I saw one tonight. Gonna be hard to enforce.

    I wish my wife would want one. She could ride w me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by the.vault View Post
    I was riding in Annadel this evening. Coming down Rough go at dusk I saw some guy on turbo Levo nailing a climb on some side trail, a trail I can never clean. Then I finished my ride...that's it. That's the whole story.
    Come on, you weren't all butt hurt by the sight of an ebike?

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    Looks Like Annadel Took a Stand On E-Bikes-ebikedoll.jpg

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    ^^^ I just spit my coffee on my keyboard. Thanks!
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    hahahha...
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  37. #37
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    haha now Im getting negative rep for defending ebikes. and the comment is just "f** ebikes". great use of logic there and excellent communication. you guys are a bunch of haters.

    just think how lucky you are to be able to do big human powered rides and that not everyone is so lucky. think of how unjust you feel the discrimination is against you just for riding a bike and then turn that around to assisted riders. those people dont feel like they are doing anything wrong. why is someone else with a motor assist ruining your day and what does that say about you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ebikedoll.jpg 
Views:	129 
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ID:	1155162
    where does someone find random pics for random captions..?

    this exact pic could be handy..lately
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    where does someone find random pics for random captions..?

    this exact pic could be handy..lately
    Not everyone can be a meme genius

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    where does someone find random pics for random captions..?

    this exact pic could be handy..lately
    It may be ebike weather this weekend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    It may be ebike weather this weekend.
    I'm definitely bringing mine to Annadel on Saturday

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    I'm definitely bringing mine to Annadel on Saturday
    Don't bring one of those flammable ones
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

  43. #43
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    **** you people

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sfgiantsfan View Post
    Don't bring one of those flammable ones
    Bring those in the Winter when we can use the warmth.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

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    Good!

    This should be the norm everywhere except multi-use trails (Hike, bike, horse, OHV, moto) such as Downieville....

  46. #46
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    Look at the progression of e bikes in the last decade, then think about what they will look like in another decade.

    Arguments in their defense don't hold up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoscoP View Post
    Look at the progression of e bikes in the last decade, then think about what they will look like in another decade.

    Arguments in their defense don't hold up.
    Anti-bike zealots (hikers and equestrians) say the same exact thing about acoustic bikes.

    I do wish ebikes didn't come on the scene for another 10+ years though.

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    Heh. Negative repped for comment from over a year ago. Got me right in the feels. :cries:

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    Quote Originally Posted by BStrummin View Post
    Heh. Negative repped for comment from over a year ago. Got me right in the feels. :cries:
    Well now you gotta post what they commented with it.

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    We saw a couple on last Sunday's ride. There were some snarky comments from our group.

  51. #51
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    it must suck when you're out riding your bike and you have to hear snarky comments from every joe blow you pass by

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    I see one or two just about every ride these days.

    I keep my snark to myself, much like I would if they were walking a dog, smoking, or playing music from a bluetooth speaker. I'm out in the park to have a good time, not be a social justice warrior. It's not like anything I say will make any difference, and will only serve to increase the universe's unhappiness.

    I passed a couple of those jamokes going uphill the other day. That felt pretty boss.
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    How're ya doin, Kyle?

    I generally keep my comments to myself, but the smoking thing... Given our fire situation is a No-Go! I'll call 'em out on that one.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  54. #54
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    Is there any evidence that e-bikes do more damage to the trails than 'regular' bikes? Is there any evidence or history of accidents with other bikers or hikers? If the answer to these questions is no, then I say that they should be allowed. Just because you're a hater doesn't mean that someone else can't have their fun. That said, I won't be buying an e-bike any time soon.

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    I read that a caravan of ebikers is heading here from Mexico....

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    Quote Originally Posted by SikeMo View Post
    Is there any evidence that e-bikes do more damage to the trails than 'regular' bikes? Is there any evidence or history of accidents with other bikers or hikers? If the answer to these questions is no, then I say that they should be allowed. Just because you're a hater doesn't mean that someone else can't have their fun. That said, I won't be buying an e-bike any time soon.
    Why do you think evidence needs to exist? it's the same mentality that other user groups use to keep MTBs off trails - go to fast, damage to the trail, scare horses, etc, etc. Any argument that is used by a non-mtber is also used by an mtber to keep away eMoped/MTB.

    Also the same "earn your turns" group who is against shuttle vehicles etc. Aren't going to be supportive of an eMTB. Personally, an eBike is probably less damaging overall than shuttling everything.

    I think there are valid safety concerns about people on eMTBs getting themselves into trouble and too far out / sketchy trails.

    But the law at most parks is pretty clear "no motorized vehicles", the pro-eMTBers somehow interpret that to mean "no motorized vehicles with throttles."

    Law also says "bikes must stay off single track." and "ride on marked trails only"

    We live in the bay area where almost anything good is hush hush or illegal. so we all typically break the law at some point or another to bike in the areas we want.
    So...you know.... "it's against the law." Does not carry a whole lot of weight with me. Just like the speed limit is 65mph.

    Personally don't want to worry about charging my bike and lugging around a 45# pound bike.

    My personal opinion on eMTBs is that I think the manufacturers should have figured this out / should be a significant part of the solution. Instead their eyes are glazed with potential sales and who cares what the impact of eMTBs on trail access is as long as they sell eMTBs.

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    I saw 2 burly dudes come flying through the gate at Lawndale recently. Full face buckets, armor, on ebikes w 3" tires. They didn't look like they'd even tap the brakes when they pass hikers, or anyone.

    I like to ride fast, esp at Annadel. But I'm polite, and don't want to make enemies of other users. But from what I've seen of SOME ebike riders, we'll get far more anti bike rage than we have already. And this at a time when we're finally making some progress.

    I've seen ebike riders who didn't have a CLUE how to ride, or about any form of trail etiquette. OTOH, I have friends in their 70's/80's who have ridden since the first mtn bikes rolled out. These folks get the big picture, and I respect their experience. Ebikes are what many of these folks need to get up the hills now. Not sure how to deal with that. But I've seen enough ebikers in full armor on what are virtually electric motos - and I see this as being a PR disaster for our sport, in the eyes of other users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fast4aSlowGuy View Post
    I saw a guy on Sunday who had managed to launch himself off the trail while CLIMBING Spring Creek on an e-bike. Myself and several others stopped and tried to help get him and his contraption back on the trail, but he was far too manly to accept assistance from others. The only assistance he needed was the electronic kind, apparently. Glad to hear Annadel has taken this stance.
    Last edited by Fairfaxian; 11-05-2018 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Typos
    I like to bike.

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    Investing in education instead of eradication will always be the answer, whether you pedal, hike, run, dog walk, backpack, climb or horseback ride. Eradication has never worked well.

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    Hey buddy
    Last edited by 5k bike 50cent legs; 11-06-2018 at 01:15 AM. Reason: quoted personal attack post
    I'm sick of all the Irish stereotypes, as soon as I finish this beer I"m punching someone

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    One thing I know for sure: a circular firing squad won’t improve things. Let’s all try to stay on our bikes and out of our graves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    I've seen ebike riders who didn't have a CLUE how to ride, or about any form of trail etiquette. OTOH, I have friends in their 70's/80's who have ridden since the first mtn bikes rolled out. These folks get the big picture, and I respect their experience. Ebikes are what many of these folks need to get up the hills now. Not sure how to deal with that. But I've seen enough ebikers in full armor on what are virtually electric motos - and I see this as being a PR disaster for our sport, in the eyes of other users.
    Ya and I've seen MTB'ers on non-ebikes that don't have any form of trail etiquette...and hikers...and horse people. I've also seen guys on 250lb, 65 horsepower dirt bikes who are the kindest most generous and polite people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    on what are virtually electric motos -
    ...LOL. I don't think you've ever seen or ridden a real dirt bike. These things bear no resemblance to a dirt bike either in size, shape, or performance. If I want to I can make an axle deep rut/hole on the trail with my 450 in 2 seconds flat. I can up shift from 4rd to fourth gear while accelerating up thousand foot grades that are so steep I can barely descend them on my DH bike. I can hit a 50 foot double just a couple of bike lengths out of a 180 degree sharp turn. I can come up a full bike length short on a 70 foot step up or a 20 foot step down and not bat an eye. Motos can skip along 3 foot deep whoops at 80 mph and hold a straight line.

    Trust me, those little turbo Levo's or whatever are nowhere close to a dirt bike.

  62. #62
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    Riding Ebikes is like licking the frosting off the birthday cake and putting the cake back in the box for others to find. It's the same as hunting from the passenger seat of the Land Rover in the wild animal park. Almost like innocently washing your hands in the lavatory, and being blamed for the lingering gas.

    It's still riding bicycles, but it's always lacking something and it just doesn't seem fair..

    Edited to add link I meant to post in the FFP... Durrr

    https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...e#.W-HMppNKiUk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini2k05 View Post
    Ya and I've seen MTB'ers on non-ebikes that don't have any form of trail etiquette...and hikers...and horse people. I've also seen guys on 250lb, 65 horsepower dirt bikes who are the kindest most generous and polite people.




    ...LOL. I don't think you've ever seen or ridden a real dirt bike. These things bear no resemblance to a dirt bike either in size, shape, or performance. If I want to I can make an axle deep rut/hole on the trail with my 450 in 2 seconds flat. I can up shift from 4rd to fourth gear while accelerating up thousand foot grades that are so steep I can barely descend them on my DH bike. I can hit a 50 foot double just a couple of bike lengths out of a 180 degree sharp turn. I can come up a full bike length short on a 70 foot step up or a 20 foot step down and not bat an eye. Motos can skip along 3 foot deep whoops at 80 mph and hold a straight line.

    Trust me, those little turbo Levo's or whatever are nowhere close to a dirt bike.
    Fairfaxian has no idea what hes talking about. I remember when I saw his first post on MTBR. Claiming that the initial build of the Endor flow trail would result in a huge erosive rut. It never happened. One of the FKFW described him to me as a "grandma". He's his own little echo chamber that when faced with an opinion he doesn't like, will simply ban or censor that opinion so he doesn't have to address it. The sad thing is that he won't stop being involved with cycling advocacy in Marin. The train wreck that Marin has become is largely due to people like him. They have no solution to any problems. They just continue down the same path despite the track record that proves they were wrong for the last 30 years.

  64. #64
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    That's too bad that Annadale took that stance. A loss for the biking community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    That's too bad that Annadale took that stance. A loss for the biking community.
    I'm no expert but pretty sure California State Parks took that stance.

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    I believe most of the younger generation will choose to welcome ebikers and work with them, at least that is my hope.

    As far as access, ebikes might be the best thing to happen to this debate in a long time. energizing the user base is always a good thing. People who are able to ride again after an injury etc are going to be very vocal about access I would imagine.

    Also these ebikes that are out now will look so rudimentary in a few years.. imagine when the battery is the size of an iphone and bikes are as light as current pedal bikes, they will be virtually indistinguishable from each other. This technology is here to stay.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    I believe most of the younger generation will choose to welcome ebikers and work with them, at least that is my hope.

    As far as access, ebikes might be the best thing to happen to this debate in a long time. energizing the user base is always a good thing. People who are able to ride again after an injury etc are going to be very vocal about access I would imagine.

    Also these ebikes that are out now will look so rudimentary in a few years.. imagine when the battery is the size of an iphone and bikes are as light as current pedal bikes, they will be virtually indistinguishable from each other. This technology is here to stay.
    You're probably right maybe. Which brings me to my next point and the whole reason I came to post on this thread and was sidetracked. Saturday I went on a nice, old fashioned pedal bike (sans battery) on my obsolete Nomad 3, and as I was entering the equivalent of wheelchair ramp trail, I happened upon a man my age, readying his electric bicycle for action. My first thought, in all honesty is "meh, BLM land.. leave him for the rangers, not MY job to enforce it.." and as I made my peace and rode on by, some actual kids, on modern bikes, Bronson 4's, were yelling "FFFF EEE BIKES!!!!" and you know, that kind of got me thinking..... In the age of Kook-Of-the-day, nothing is sacred. If ebikes suck, the kids will revolt. If they don't, the kids will embrace. Anyhoo my mantra applies.. Be nice.. Say Hi.. and the ever famous.. WGAF it's my world, you all just live in it.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    I'm no expert but pretty sure California State Parks took that stance.
    It's currently on a State Park-by-State Park basis; each District Superintendent is who makes the call. I've been told that a committee in Sacto is trying to come up with an overall state-wide e-bike policy but it likely will remain the choice of the local District Superintendent.

    Just like the general State Parks policy is "no mountain bike races in State Parks" yet some District Supe's say yes to MTB races.

    (Money talks)
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B1KER View Post
    That's too bad that Annadale took that stance. A loss for the biking community.
    Maybe a loss for the e-bike community. I mean mop-E-d community

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    It's currently on a State Park-by-State Park basis; each District Superintendent is who makes the call. I've been told that a committee in Sacto is trying to come up with an overall state-wide e-bike policy but it likely will remain the choice of the local District Superintendent.

    Just like the general State Parks policy is "no mountain bike races in State Parks" yet some District Supe's say yes to MTB races.

    (Money talks)
    Good point Moe. I'm willing to bet the superintendent in a widely used and revered open space like Annadel would be hard pressed not to make illegal what hasn't been researched and proven as safe. Whereas say, Picacho State Recreation Area, would probably give zero cares to ebikes where the ranger at the kiosk is just happy to see a living, breathing person regardless of what they ride.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    Good point Moe. I'm willing to bet the superintendent in a widely used and revered open space like Annadel would be hard pressed not to make illegal what hasn't been researched and proven as safe. Whereas say, Picacho State Recreation Area, would probably give zero cares to ebikes where the ranger at the kiosk is just happy to see a living, breathing person regardless of what they ride.
    Plus, there is a big anti-E crowd up here. The rangers get an earful on a regular basis.
    Why Johnny Ringo, you look like someone just walked over your grave.

  72. #72
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    Having just spent a week in Bentonville Ark riding (one day on an ebike) this thread really drives home the differences in mindset between a place like Bentonville and really, the entire west coast. All the #oztrails are ebike legal. Nobody has any adolescent bullshit get off my wave comments or even mentality. Everyone is just stoked on the scene, being outside and doing their thing. Same thing in Europe.
    Here, the horse folks hate the mtbers, the mtbers hate the horses, motos and now the ebikes, the hikers hate everyone and the beat goes on. Trails don’t get built for a myriad of bullshit reasons, everyone goes to a war footing to “protect “ their turf/tribe and its concidered a win if your tribe can get something shut down or stop the construction of a trail that doesn’t fit in your ridiculously small minded way of thinking.
    The thought process baffles me. It seems there really are no limits to the hypocrisy and narcissistic of the various tribes and their inhabitants.

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    How dare you imply that the discrimination eMTBs get from MTBs is at all the same as the existing CA trail conflict / hate.

    I think we all know that MTBs are harmless to trails and trail users and eMTBs are worse than dirt bikes + horses.

    That being said ebikes sound annoying.

  74. #74
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    The MTB community will be making a mistake (IMO) if it does not embrace ebikes. They will allow many others to join our ranks, perhaps ensuring that we roll over the equestrian's illegitimate complaints, by sheer size. Equestrians are a dying breed anyways, but they are the elders of the trail use community and they don't seem to be willing to quit on the merits. So we need to win outright. And because I have gotten old in my 36 years as an MTBr, I have budgeted $6500 for an ebike for myself. My wife will likely want one too for the same reason as I, so there's another chunk. But they will allow us to continue this pass time until we really have no business being on a bike. So if you hate on ebikers you will be hating on me. And while I am a bit of an arse, some people say I am not all bad.
    "It's not that bicycling is so important, it is that everything else is equally unimportant."-Bruce Ohlson.

  75. #75
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    OK Davey do we really need to resort to flame & slander? This is a civil forum, and we're ALL mtn bikers here. I'm no Grandma but I happen to be 64 years old and I still get up the hills on my bike and do trail work, and other bike advocacy. I put in many hours of volunteer time in a variety of bike life efforts. OK, you don't like me, and you're pissed that you didn't get what you wanted here in Marin fast enough. We're all pissed. I'll probably be too old to ride when some of these trails open to cyclists. But I don't resort to slander or death wishes if someone disagrees with me. Let's be adults about all this.

    Yes, we don't get much parity in Marin. But a LOT of people here have put in YEARS of work to make whatever progress they can achieve. And there have been successes. We don't get to DICTATE what we want. Votes, diplomacy, and the UNITED pressure of our growing numbers is what we have to work with. It's not an easy win. And there's no guidebook for what tactics will succeed. THere's alway plenty of angry ranting from those who are impatient. But most rants don't offer any workable solutions. Just name calling, anger, and tantrums. THat's just what our dedicated adversaries want. And where does that get us? We have bike advocates that work full time on this. We have volunteers who have kids & full time jobs but are out there working hard for our cause. Many fume on these forums about how THEY thought Tamarancho should be maintained. But most of those people never showed up on trailwork days. They just sniped from their keyboards. It's impossible to please everybody. But when people are doing their BEST to make things better, it's just sickening to hear them -and myself- get slandered in a public forum because we disagree. Death wishes REALLY?

    I come from a big city and can handle trash talk to my face. But I moved here to be in a place where I'm surrounded by the Bike Tribe -as almost all my friends are. My friends! And sometimes we disagree. But we keep it cool and respect each other as adults. I had beers with you Davey years ago, and you praised me for my work -with all my other grandpa & grandma pals- that built Tamarancho. Yes, most of us ARE that old. And now you wish me dead. Yup, that helps. I know plenty of angry grumblers here. And that's what they do. They point fingers and sling profanity. But what does that accomplish? I don't always agree with every tactic or choice that our local bike advocacy folks make. But I certainly don't have all the answers. And I respect that they're doing their BEST -under pressure.

    If anyone out there has the solution to bike access in Marin, let's HEAR IT. Better yet, just get up one day. Put on your shoes, walk out & just MAKE IT HAPPEN. Just like that. And when you succeed -as no one has before- we'll honor your contribution & name the best trail after you. But until then, how about just trying to HELP, and support those who give up a LOT of their free time trying to improve things.
    I like to bike.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    OK Davey do we really need to resort to flame & slander? This is a civil forum, and we're ALL mtn bikers here. I'm no Grandma but I happen to be 64 years old and I still get up the hills on my bike and do trail work, and other bike advocacy. I put in many hours of volunteer time in a variety of bike life efforts. OK, you don't like me, and you're pissed that you didn't get what you wanted here in Marin fast enough. We're all pissed. I'll probably be too old to ride when some of these trails open to cyclists. But I don't resort to slander or death wishes if someone disagrees with me. Let's be adults about all this.

    Yes, we don't get much parity in Marin. But a LOT of people here have put in YEARS of work to make whatever progress they can achieve. And there have been successes. We don't get to DICTATE what we want. Votes, diplomacy, and the UNITED pressure of our growing numbers is what we have to work with. It's not an easy win. And there's no guidebook for what tactics will succeed. THere's alway plenty of angry ranting from those who are impatient. But most rants don't offer any workable solutions. Just name calling, anger, and tantrums. THat's just what our dedicated adversaries want. And where does that get us? We have bike advocates that work full time on this. We have volunteers who have kids & full time jobs but are out there working hard for our cause. Many fume on these forums about how THEY thought Tamarancho should be maintained. But most of those people never showed up on trailwork days. They just sniped from their keyboards. It's impossible to please everybody. But when people are doing their BEST to make things better, it's just sickening to hear them -and myself- get slandered in a public forum because we disagree. Death wishes REALLY?

    I come from a big city and can handle trash talk to my face. But I moved here to be in a place where I'm surrounded by the Bike Tribe -as almost all my friends are. My friends! And sometimes we disagree. But we keep it cool and respect each other as adults. I had beers with you Davey years ago, and you praised me for my work -with all my other grandpa & grandma pals- that built Tamarancho. Yes, most of us ARE that old. And now you wish me dead. Yup, that helps. I know plenty of angry grumblers here. And that's what they do. They point fingers and sling profanity. But what does that accomplish? I don't always agree with every tactic or choice that our local bike advocacy folks make. But I certainly don't have all the answers. And I respect that they're doing their BEST -under pressure.

    If anyone out there has the solution to bike access in Marin, let's HEAR IT. Better yet, just get up one day. Put on your shoes, walk out & just MAKE IT HAPPEN. Just like that. And when you succeed -as no one has before- we'll honor your contribution & name the best trail after you. But until then, how about just trying to HELP, and support those who give up a LOT of their free time trying to improve things.
    Agree.

    We've deleted worse coming from Davey Simon and his frequent rants. Heart's in the right place but really doesn't have the stability or temperament to speak for us or interact online sometimes.

    Sorry it was posted here.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    If anyone out there has the solution to bike access in Marin, let's HEAR IT.
    I like the prototype model that MM and Fuzzy put forth in CC. With risk comes reward 😁

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfaxian View Post
    OK Davey do we really need to resort to flame & slander? This is a civil forum, and we're ALL mtn bikers here. I'm no Grandma but I happen to be 64 years old and I still get up the hills on my bike and do trail work, and other bike advocacy. I put in many hours of volunteer time in a variety of bike life efforts. OK, you don't like me, and you're pissed that you didn't get what you wanted here in Marin fast enough. We're all pissed. I'll probably be too old to ride when some of these trails open to cyclists. But I don't resort to slander or death wishes if someone disagrees with me. Let's be adults about all this.

    Yes, we don't get much parity in Marin. But a LOT of people here have put in YEARS of work to make whatever progress they can achieve. And there have been successes. We don't get to DICTATE what we want. Votes, diplomacy, and the UNITED pressure of our growing numbers is what we have to work with. It's not an easy win. And there's no guidebook for what tactics will succeed. THere's alway plenty of angry ranting from those who are impatient. But most rants don't offer any workable solutions. Just name calling, anger, and tantrums. THat's just what our dedicated adversaries want. And where does that get us? We have bike advocates that work full time on this. We have volunteers who have kids & full time jobs but are out there working hard for our cause. Many fume on these forums about how THEY thought Tamarancho should be maintained. But most of those people never showed up on trailwork days. They just sniped from their keyboards. It's impossible to please everybody. But when people are doing their BEST to make things better, it's just sickening to hear them -and myself- get slandered in a public forum because we disagree. Death wishes REALLY?

    I come from a big city and can handle trash talk to my face. But I moved here to be in a place where I'm surrounded by the Bike Tribe -as almost all my friends are. My friends! And sometimes we disagree. But we keep it cool and respect each other as adults. I had beers with you Davey years ago, and you praised me for my work -with all my other grandpa & grandma pals- that built Tamarancho. Yes, most of us ARE that old. And now you wish me dead. Yup, that helps. I know plenty of angry grumblers here. And that's what they do. They point fingers and sling profanity. But what does that accomplish? I don't always agree with every tactic or choice that our local bike advocacy folks make. But I certainly don't have all the answers. And I respect that they're doing their BEST -under pressure.

    If anyone out there has the solution to bike access in Marin, let's HEAR IT. Better yet, just get up one day. Put on your shoes, walk out & just MAKE IT HAPPEN. Just like that. And when you succeed -as no one has before- we'll honor your contribution & name the best trail after you. But until then, how about just trying to HELP, and support those who give up a LOT of their free time trying to improve things.
    Only Fairfaxian would demand my post is deleted. Then over two weeks later bring it up out of context. Nice work.


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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Only Fairfaxian would demand my post is deleted. Then over two weeks later bring it up out of context. Nice work.


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    Still trolling the NorCal forum...you should move back to Marin

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    Still trolling the NorCal forum...you should move back to Marin
    Looks Like Annadel Took a Stand On E-Bikes-troll-so-hard-motherfuckers-wanna-ban-me.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Agree.

    We've deleted worse coming from Davey Simon and his frequent rants. Heart's in the right place but really doesn't have the stability or temperament to speak for us or interact online sometimes.

    Sorry it was posted here.
    Seems like a great temperament to have when you are flying commercial airliners... 😂

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by seamarsh View Post
    Seems like a great temperament to have when you are flying commercial airliners... 😂
    Yeah kind of weird that I can pass an actual mental health screening required by my employer, but not FC's. Maybe I should put FC in touch with FAA aeromedical? They obviously need an expert like him to bring them up to speed.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Yeah kind of weird that I can pass an actual mental health screening required by my employer, but not FC's. Maybe I should put FC in touch with FAA aeromedical? They obviously need an expert like him to bring them up to speed.
    FC just remarked that you are not able to speak on behalf of others.

    Based on the level of snark in this comment, I think I agree with him.

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    “I’ve got a right to be hostile, man, my people are being persecuted!”

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    Quote Originally Posted by fc View Post
    Agree.

    We've deleted worse coming from Davey Simon and his frequent rants. Heart's in the right place but really doesn't have the stability or temperament to speak for us or interact online sometimes.

    Sorry it was posted here.
    Quoted for relevance. Emphasis on stability


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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davey Simon View Post
    Yeah kind of weird that I can pass an actual mental health screening required by my employer, but not FC's. Maybe I should put FC in touch with FAA aeromedical? They obviously need an expert like him to bring them up to speed.


    Looks Like Annadel Took a Stand On E-Bikes-38650368_2149169495370494_2615050838862725120_n.jpg


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