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    Lake Chabot?

    Going to be living really close to Lake Chabot soon so I wonder if it offers any technical singletrack? I have been primarily riding Juaqiun Miller? Chapperal or Cinderella. Any comparisons @ Lake Chabot. Looking for a loop offering a little cardio mixed w/ some singletrack. Thanx

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    Chabot

    Chabot is not the place to ride if you're looking for legal singletrack. I live next to Chabot and take the bike the Joaquin Miller since this is by far the best singletrack that is about 20 minutes from the house.

    Chabot is pretty low on my list for a place to ride. A good hillclimb would be the Live Oak Trail on the southeast side of the lake. I do this about 3-5 times in a row, coming back down Live Oak or Honker Bay.

    Fire roads that get little use and have good tree cover are Logger's Loop and Escondito Trails off Brandon.

    Have fun.


    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    Going to be living really close to Lake Chabot soon so I wonder if it offers any technical singletrack? I have been primarily riding Juaqiun Miller? Chapperal or Cinderella. Any comparisons @ Lake Chabot. Looking for a loop offering a little cardio mixed w/ some singletrack. Thanx

  3. #3
    jrm
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    You can connect Chabot, Redwood and JM

    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    Going to be living really close to Lake Chabot soon so I wonder if it offers any technical singletrack? I have been primarily riding Juaqiun Miller? Chapperal or Cinderella. Any comparisons @ Lake Chabot. Looking for a loop offering a little cardio mixed w/ some singletrack. Thanx
    the Chabot glodenrod trail will take you all the way to skyline. It drops you near redwood and kinda close to JM. Theres also that fun ST in the mediam of skyline blvd too.

    This map will show you the connecting options. http://www.ebbc.org/maps/map.html

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    Chabot is great cardio. Red Tail is a wide single track with a couple jumps at the bottom. Roads are either sandy or hardpacked and rutted. If anything, it's a good workout for your suspension.

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    Use Chabot for cardio training

    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    Going to be living really close to Lake Chabot soon so I wonder if it offers any technical singletrack? I have been primarily riding Juaqiun Miller? Chapperal or Cinderella. Any comparisons @ Lake Chabot. Looking for a loop offering a little cardio mixed w/ some singletrack. Thanx
    If you're right next to Chabot use it a couple times a week for cardio training and then do your technical at JM a couple days a week.
    Lots of mtn bikers use road riding for cardio, but you can do about the same on Chabot's fireroads.
    Just get out there and push without having to worry or think much about crashing.....but watch for those eucalyptus "nuts" which can be like ball bearings on some off camber turns.

    Clock yourself on loops or set sections or certain hills. Try to keep improving your time.

    Do the bike loops and try to keep it under 75 or 60 or 50 minutes on the Live Oak Loop or under 80 or 60 or 55 minutes on the Honkers Bay Loop.....or whatever, depending on your weight, fitness and age. Each person is on their own performance improvement scale.
    That should offer good cardio for most folks. Do it twice if you need more.
    One note on those routes....is that if you are really rolling (doing the loop clockwise) it is sometimes better to go up Cameron to the ranger station and down the road to the end of the "overflow" parking and back to the marina rather than riding fast on the Eastshore paved trail because it has lots of walkers and lots of turns, including some blind ones..
    (obviously you do the same in the opposite direction when doing the loops counter clockwise)
    I stopped riding the Eastshore trail to avoid hitting walkers. You also have to be careful on the Westshore trail but it has more straight stretches and far fewer tight turns and most importantly, less walkers.
    Taking the Cameron-Ranger Station route adds about 3 minutes to either of the other "official" loops at a fast pace.

    Or better yet, stay completely off the paved trails and do some sections or hills over and over. Like FastOldFart said, do reps on the Live Oak hill. You do 5 like he said, and I can assure you, that will give your cardio a good workout......whew!
    Or for something a little less steep but equally demanding if you go fast enough, go from the Brandon Trail entry at the end of the golf course parking lot to the top of the hill ending at the last tree on the left, or the bench. Time yourself and do it once or several times..
    This is one of my favorites....try to crack 13 or 11 or 10 minutes flat. Get better and better against the watch. Doing that increases performance.
    Or for a longer segment ride, with a reward at the end, start at that same spot in the golf course parking lot and ride that hill, but don't stop and continue down Brandon to the Stone Bridge and then up Jackson Grade to the drinking fountain (your reward) at the top.
    Then rest a bit, reverse that going back up to the bench at the top of Brandon where you just were. For safety reasons I don't continue timing myself back down the hill to the golf course (about 1.4 miles) because I had too many near misses around some of those turns with riders coming up. So that segment I only time from the drinking fountain near Skyline Blvd, back up to the bench at the top of the Brandon/Golf course hill.

    Anyway, do some of those loops or segments or intervals over and over "timed" and you will get tons of cardio workout.........but alas, not much technical.
    Still, with it being so close to your new home, its better to ride often on even less technical trails instead of doing less riding on "better" trails.

    I just wish more people were riding around the segments and loops of Chabot. Over the past few years its turning into a ghost town on week day afternoons..
    Where did all those folks go who used to ride 3 years ago?
    Last edited by Chester; 07-20-2004 at 01:45 PM. Reason: spelling

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    I'll head out when I move - got a lot of work to do on my purchase. I was hoping for some good singletrack but it seems like most in this area are illegal. Joaquin Miller is ok but there are only two good singletracks I know of Chapperal & Cinderella. I have too much work @ the moment to explore other areas possibly Marin, Pacifica etc. Thanx

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    Quote Originally Posted by FastOldFart
    Chabot is not the place to ride if you're looking for legal singletrack. I live next to Chabot and take the bike the Joaquin Miller since this is by far the best singletrack that is about 20 minutes from the house.

    Chabot is pretty low on my list for a place to ride. A good hillclimb would be the Live Oak Trail on the southeast side of the lake. I do this about 3-5 times in a row, coming back down Live Oak or Honker Bay.

    Fire roads that get little use and have good tree cover are Logger's Loop and Escondito Trails off Brandon.

    Have fun.
    Been to Chabot....and nothing to brag home about. It is a good cardio-loop and nothing but wide fire road trails. I would have liked to bomb down the backside fast but they use radar out there and 15 MPH is the speed limit. Rather be at Rockville......
    RLX

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    jrm
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    theres also Big [email protected] JM

    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    I'll head out when I move - got a lot of work to do on my purchase. I was hoping for some good singletrack but it seems like most in this area are illegal. Joaquin Miller is ok but there are only two good singletracks I know of Chapperal & Cinderella. I have too much work @ the moment to explore other areas possibly Marin, Pacifica etc. Thanx
    The vibe @ JM towards MTB's sucks though.

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    agree about JM vibe

    Quote Originally Posted by jrm
    The vibe @ JM towards MTB's sucks though.
    Thats one good thing about Anthony Chabot away from the immediate lake paths, is that there are so few people out on the fire trails, especially on weekdays, that no one cares what you do or how fast you go.
    I'm even frightened to ride Loggers Loop or Escondido fast after 6:00 PM because I figure if I break a leg, no one may come by for 24 hours. Especially concerned on those Winter evenings... A person could freeze to death if they severly injured themselves and waited for care to come by.
    I used to think the people over near the campground HQ for Anthony Chabot Park did daily patrols of the roads in a truck or something, but I am now convinced that they go a week and more between times they drive the even the fireroads..
    I know this because for example if I ride Brandon between the Stone Bridge and the Rifle Range on a Saturday and all is clear, then on Monday there is a large tree blocking the road, I can almost be certain it will still be there on Wednesday when I go again.
    Just happend last week....So Thursday morning I reported it to them and ONLY then did they send someone out to cut it and remove it from the trail. A big tree completely blocking one of their major routes. If I hadn't called it in I would have expected it to be there into the next week. I don't know how houses were able to get over it.
    I gather they don't even drive down Brandon once a week....and just depend on people calling it in. Sometimes trees that only partially block the fireroads can stay in partial blockage for many weeks.
    No big deal, but it makes me laugh when people are all concerned about being caught on some of the small narrow trails. I don't encourage them, but I tell them there simply isn't anyone around....even on the big fire roads let alone the smaller trails.

    I wish there was about 3 times the number of bikers riding Anthony Chabot trails and roads. As I've said in earlier posts........its getting too quiet out there.
    All that park available and no one is using it. Instead, they're all down in some smelly gym on exercycles or a treadmill.....sweating away with 200 other people in some converted warehouse, paying $50 a month. Go figure......

    Got Abs?

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    Well, I'm riding tonight at 6pm from the Ranger station if anybody's interested (10 hills, Brandon, Loggers' loop maybe, stonebridge).

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    Well, between 6pm and 7:30pm last night I crossed maybe 7 other bikers on Brandon. My guess is that there weren't more than a dozen bikers yesterday evening around Chabot.

    I guess everybody is road biking these days.

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    My wife led her regular weekly Monday evening beginners ride at Lake Chabot this past Monday (meet at 6:15pm at the Public Safety office/Nike Classroom dirt lot every Monday). She said she had about 7 people in her group this week. Great turn-out. Usually there are at least a few people there. I often join her as a 'Recovery Ride" after the weekend. Actually, I used to lead this ride myself, just for that reason.

    http://www.btceb.org/grouprides.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester
    Or for something a little less steep but equally demanding if you go fast enough, go from the Brandon Trail entry at the end of the golf course parking lot to the top of the hill ending at the last tree on the left, or the bench. Time yourself and do it once or several times..
    This is one of my favorites....try to crack 13 or 11 or 10 minutes flat. Get better and better against the watch. Doing that increases performance.
    My hat is off to you. That golf course to bench segment on Brandon happens to be my timed climb, and I think I cracked the 14 minute window once, but I'm usually in the 15 minute range.

    As far as I'm concerned, ALL the riding is on the back side of the park. The only civilization I like to see is if I descend through the campground.

    The better, more obsure (least crowded) downhill sections up there are Escondido in the northerly direction and Red Tail down to Bort Meadow. I'm also a big fan of Goldenrod from the Skyline parking area (above the Zoo golf course) past the Chabot stables to the City of Oakland stables & end of the trail. That's a great transition up Parkridge Drive overlooking Bort meadow, with a longish descent that includes some fun activities on the side, if you know what I mean. And then of course there is Cottontail going in the uphill direction, which isn't as severe as the Live Oak climb but a good heart rate raiser and test of mental fitness.

    But if I ever cross the dam and hit the paved trail, I try to steer clear of the foot traffic, fisherpeople and casual riders by shooting up to Lake Chabot road and riding around the park perimeter.

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    I see you breaking your record this fall

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedüb Nate
    My hat is off to you. That golf course to bench segment on Brandon happens to be my timed climb, and I think I cracked the 14 minute window once, but I'm usually in the 15 minute range.
    .
    .
    You usually ride up that hill in the 15 min range and cracked 14 min once......
    I'm betting that if you rested for a couple minutes at the bottom of that hill and then committed to a death ride, you would easily take it under 13 minutes, perhaps under 12 minutes.....if you were willing to collapse at the top gasping for air, falling off the bike and needing 15 minutes rest on the bench :-)

    I just mention that because I talk to lots of people who time themselves making "good efforts" up that climb, but seldom do they look like they are near death at the top.
    People can do much more than they think.
    I'm expecting you to come back with a sub-13:00 report.....although I noticed recently the powdered soils are building up on that climb this time of the year and every little bit of extra loose soil slows you down. Fastest times from my experience are about 10 days after the first good rain in the Fall. Every thing hardens up and it cuts down up to a half minute on the climb compared to the real dusty summer. Get in shape now and in the Fall blast up that climb!

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    Good points. I usually start cold from the Proctor staging area 1/4 mile up the road, and I'm in good enough shape at the top that I transition right in to the Red Tail Trail psyingle track. Maybe I'll try linking together some 5 mile loops down Live Oak and reevaluate my effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester
    I'm expecting you to come back with a sub-13:00 report.....
    Ok, you're right, all I needed was to push myself out of my comfort zone just a bit. I rode it this evening and hit the bench in 13:27, huffing an puffing more than normal but almost exactly two minutes ahead of my "comfortable" time on Sunday. I'll keep pushing and see if I can't crack 12 by the end of July, oops, August.

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    Here's a thought...

    Maybe we should have a hillclimb race up the Brandon Grade (first or second bench).

    Not to see whose a faster climber that day, but mostly just to push ourselves. With a few others there doing the same thing, I'm thinking we'd all have a little more incentive to push ourselves to a faster pace than normal.

    Afterwards we can do a Lake Chabot weekday evening ride or something. I know several decent loops of varying length and difficulty through the area. (One of my favorites is combining Lake Chabot, Redwood Park and Joaquin Miller - about 35 miles.)

    Above route:

    [*Lake Chabot]: Start at the Public Safety offices/Nike classroom - Ten Hills, Brandon Grade, Redtail to Marcial Gate, Redwood Rd to Soaring Hawk, up MacDonald from Bort Meadow, down MacDonald to [*Redwood Park], up West Ridge to Chabot Observatory, cut into [*Joaquin Miller] and wander for a bit before heading to Skyline Blvd and the Skyline median singletrack. Take the singletrack to it's end then hit the downhill fireroad on the bay side of the street. Take the fireroad either to the stables and ride fireroad on the opposite side of the street, or continue down. Either way, end up at the Skyline/Grass Valley intersection. Then continue around the lake counter clockwise back to where we started.

    I used to lead that ride for the BTCEB once a month, near the full moon. Even at this time of year, the ride may require lights if starting after 6pm. I normally begin my rides after work, between 5-6:30pm.

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    Well, I also tried to push myself last night up Brandon, and I got a 15'30" from the gate to the bench, which is almost decent for somebody who's been riding regularly for only 5 months. By September, my goal is to now shave a min off that climb. I'll never be a great climber, but I enjoyed the effort nonetheless.

    Man, that 35 mile loop looks killer, unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to ride it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Man, that 35 mile loop looks killer, unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to ride it yet.
    You might be surprised, giving yourself four or maybe 5 hours, how relaxing, enjoyable and invigorating that loop can be (I prefer reversing the Redwood Park portion of it but options abound). A further benefit of the well-developed network of trails up there (perhaps the kick in the pants you need to convince yourself to try it) is that at multiple points along the way, you can cut the loop short and head back in if you're feeling beat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedüb Nate
    (I prefer reversing the Redwood Park portion of it but options abound).
    Yep-yep. I like to go the reverse sometimes as well, but I also like that looooong grind of a climb up West Ridge. Also, sometimes intead of climbing Brandon, I'll take Cameron Loop down from Ten Hills and cross the wooden bridge to climb Live Oak. That's my [dirt] climbing training loop. (Live Oak, parts of Soaring Hawk, MacDonald, and West Ridge.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Speedüb Nate
    A further benefit of the well-developed network of trails up there (perhaps the kick in the pants you need to convince yourself to try it) is that at multiple points along the way, you can cut the loop short and head back in if you're feeling beat.
    Many, many, many bail out points up until about Joaquin Miller. Then by that time, the miles are pretty much committed. When I lead this ride, we'd usually have some people bail at the top of MacDonald and head straight for the Skyline median singletrack, which makes it about a 20 mile loop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester
    No big deal, but it makes me laugh when people are all concerned about being caught on some of the small narrow trails. I don't encourage them, but I tell them there simply isn't anyone around....even on the big fire roads let alone the smaller trails.
    Depends on the trail... Columbine and Cascade trails (specifically) are regularly patrolled in the evenings by a guy who's a volunteer hiking patrol, and his son. So I've heard.

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    Actually, a couple weeks ago, I followed buddies on a 20 mile loop that kicked my butt:
    - park ranger station down to the marina
    - followed the trail then up to the water fountain
    - then up Goldenrod.
    - onto Skyline and back onto MacDonald's I believe. Spent a little time on that sweet single track hidden in the bushes.
    - up to red tail on that leg burning and lung busting climb.
    - by then I was so beat, that we went down Live Oak, across the bridge and back up to the car.

    I don't know, but that way seemed like it was all climbing and no downhill.

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    That's almost the reverse of the loop I just proposed for a ride tonight, but for a few small differences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Ambrose
    Depends on the trail... Columbine and Cascade trails (specifically) are regularly patrolled in the evenings by a guy who's a volunteer hiking patrol, and his son. So I've heard.
    Last night, from what I heard, there were three hikers on that trail, but not hiker patrol (around 6:30-7). Now, you have to be some kind of loser to be a hiker patrol just looking for bikes. Furthermore, they legally can't do anything about it except for complaining loudly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Ambrose
    That's almost the reverse of the loop I just proposed for a ride tonight, but for a few small differences.
    Cool, then tell me if it's easier counter clockwise. Can't do it tonight, but if you decide to organize it next week, I might be interested (not on Thursday though).

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Cool, then tell me if it's easier counter clockwise. Can't do it tonight, but if you decide to organize it next week, I might be interested (not on Thursday though).

    Which way is easier depends on which climbs you take, IMO. If counter clockwise, climbing Live Oak to Brandon, the climb Redtail, Soaring Hawk and MacDonald - I think that's more strenuous. But otherwise I think clockwise would be more difficult. The climbs aren't as steep, but pretty sustained (if I'm reading your route correctly).

    Cool beans, maybe I'll post another ride for next Wednesday or something. (If so, will post it some time next week.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg
    Last night, from what I heard, there were three hikers on that trail, but not hiker patrol (around 6:30-7). Now, you have to be some kind of loser to be a hiker patrol just looking for bikes. Furthermore, they legally can't do anything about it except for complaining loudly.
    True, they can't take any real action against anyone. But apparently they sometimes carry radios and will radio the rangers about poachers. (They are part of the organized volunteer trail patrol so get certain perks, like radios, those green trail patrol duds, etc.)

    I've heard of hike patrols snapping polaroids of people as well.

    It does sound like they are specifically looking out for poachers. Hehe. I think it's kinda funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by D.Ambrose
    True, they can't take any real action against anyone. But apparently they sometimes carry radios and will radio the rangers about poachers. (They are part of the organized volunteer trail patrol so get certain perks, like radios, those green trail patrol duds, etc.)

    I've heard of hike patrols snapping polaroids of people as well.

    It does sound like they are specifically looking out for poachers. Hehe. I think it's kinda funny.
    Actually, this morning, I saw an older guy with a green jacket (went too fast to read what was on there, but it must have been some patrol) and a walkie talkie at the stone bridge around 9am. I don't know if he specifically was on the "lookout" for poachers... Friggin loser...

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