I want an ebike! Am I going to get hassled out on trails?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    I want an ebike! Am I going to get hassled out on trails?

    Got my sights on a Kenevo. Probably buy next January unless the market has a V-shaped recovery, then it'll be sooner.

    I love the idea of being able to set it to the low level of boost and pedal up the Rocky Ridge fire road as if I'm on a 15 lb bike, then have the full Kenevo geometry and setup when coming down the single track. (and similar trails)

    I like the Kenevo concept over Levo because I already have a tight 26" mtb for more nimble running. Kenevo on paper seems like it'll be a plow. So, nimble or plow, I have an option.

    -----

    But I'm reading here about SO MUCH HATE against e-bikers. The few I've seen on the trails, I'm sure not rude to them since I want one, but for those who have and use e-bikes, do you get hassled out there? is all the hate just from keyboard commandos, or does it spill out onto the trails?

    Not asking about whether people will hate me if I buzz by strollers and horses at 25 mph and generally being a jerk on the trail. That's not me. I mean, by virtue of having an e-bike and riding on a trail, will I get hassled.

  2. #2
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    Most people will not confront you out on the trail with anything more than a dirty look or sarcastic comment. But yes, it’s not just all online. There are people out there who do not think ebikes belong on the same trails as them, even though they are clearly here to stay.

    And hey, if someone is giving you crap just switch to boost/turbo mode and leave them in the dust with a reply such as, “What’s that? Can’t hear you over the sound of my motor, have a good one”

  3. #3
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    I'm not really seeing/hearing much hate on the trails but I am also overly nice out there. As long as you show a high level of respect and courtesy, most comments are friendly and conversational. Be cool about passing (sometimes I won't even bother passing if it's a group or tight single track...I don't want to kill someones flow), don't rip up DH trails with blind corners if possible, help out stranded riders (injured/broken bikes...I have towed a few people to cars since I got this bike), fix/maintain trails whenever possible, etc.

    The hate you are seeing here are mostly a new wave of MTB-NIMBYs frustrated with the increased traffic on our beloved trails and less than ideal events. I get it but whatever...if you do encounter a bent rider/hiker just know that you can leave them in their wallowing pretty quick. Just try to de-escalate and enjoy the ride...it's a blast! The Kenevo is going to be my next bike...that thing is the shizz.
    I'm not sure how this works.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    And hey, if someone is giving you crap just switch to boost/turbo mode and leave them in the dust with a reply such as, “What’s that? Can’t hear you over the sound of my motor, have a good one”
    Just not my style. Not even interested in pedaling up Rocky Ridge trail on an e-bike (or any bike) due to empathy. When descending, I have no problems slowing down for someone coming up, but I know I like it better coming down with noone on it, so I don't want to contribute to that experience for someone else. I'm a live and let live kinda guy.

    That said, we all rub SOMEone the wrong way for whatever reason. I didn't say thank you fast enough last week to a guy who held a gate for his buddy, and I was between the two, so passed through while he held it for me. He probably think's I am an etiquette-less jerk.

    Maybe I'm just sensing some oversensitivity online and extrapolating that to the trail? 99% of the people I see out there, it's just miles and smiles of course. But I'm not on an e-bike yet...

  5. #5
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    Agreed with RB. You'll definitely get some side eye and at most a sarcastic comment, but I have yet to experience anything other than that. More than not, you will get interest and questions if you're not actually pedaling at the time of the interaction.

    One cool thing about the NorCal ebike community is it runs pretty deep and is super welcoming. Lots of regional groups that ride together a lot, and sometimes these tribes converge and then a frickin party ensues! The NorCal ebike community reminds me a lot of the NorCal Kayak Fishing groups.

    The other cool aspect is most of the current trail development people don't know about are being driven by ebikes. Get in with them, you get inside track to a lot of off the radar stuff.

    I don't know a single person who has bought an ebike an regretted it. That's not a joke or hyperbole. I say go for it!
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    get whatever you want, if they haze you pedal away...zzzzzzooooom.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by squashyo View Post
    The Kenevo is going to be my next bike...that thing is the shizz.
    Thing I can't get over about the levokenevo is the one and only time I'm on one, and, what appeared to be the ONLY rock in the whole forest kicks up, hits that charging port on the left side of the motor, knocks off the little door/cover thingy and the bike dies in the middle of BFE. Took me a half hour to figure out what happened.

    I'm on a Heckler right now (loaner from the shop) and I really like the STEPS motor. Much more over the Bosch. (I realize neither of these are Specialized motors.)

  8. #8
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    Do kayaks have motors?
    “The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.”

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Do kayaks have motors?
    Actually the adoption of integrated trolling motors / electric assist pedal motors / drop in motors (for example in place of pedal drives) is an ongoing development in kayak fishing. A lot less hate on that front for sure, but there's a lot less ego there as pretty much no one cares how fast you got to your spots.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Do kayaks have motors?
    "All these GD All-Mountain E-Kayakers!!"

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Got my sights on a Kenevo. Probably buy next January unless the market has a V-shaped recovery, then it'll be sooner.

    I love the idea of being able to set it to the low level of boost and pedal up the Rocky Ridge fire road as if I'm on a 15 lb bike, then have the full Kenevo geometry and setup when coming down the single track. (and similar trails)

    I like the Kenevo concept over Levo because I already have a tight 26" mtb for more nimble running. Kenevo on paper seems like it'll be a plow. So, nimble or plow, I have an option.

    -----

    But I'm reading here about SO MUCH HATE against e-bikers. The few I've seen on the trails, I'm sure not rude to them since I want one, but for those who have and use e-bikes, do you get hassled out there? is all the hate just from keyboard commandos, or does it spill out onto the trails?

    Not asking about whether people will hate me if I buzz by strollers and horses at 25 mph and generally being a jerk on the trail. That's not me. I mean, by virtue of having an e-bike and riding on a trail, will I get hassled.
    If you don't ride where ebikes are not allowed (Skeggs, Water Dog, etc), no one should give you any trouble.

    I'll likely get an ebike someday, but won't ride where they're prohibited. Similarly, I don't poach trails now.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    "All these GD All-Water E-Kayakers!!"
    I fixed it for ya...
    "And crawling on the planet's face, some insects called, The Human Race..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    A lot less hate on that front for sure, but there's a lot less ego there as pretty much no one cares how fast you got to your spots.
    WHAT! You're telling me strava doesn't have fishing mode and a king-of-the-river board? Some one should build that and watch the $$$ roll in.

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    Find out who works on the trails, and offer to carry tools/beer on work days. You will go from zero to hero instantly in their (e-bike haters eyes). Than if anyone talks shit you can politely inform them that you help maintain the trails they are riding. Also ride the trails DH only wherever possible...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    Similarly, I don't poach trails now.
    Wow, we found the one guy in Norcal that follows all the rules.
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  16. #16
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    You can't hear the hecklers with your headphones in. Works for me

  17. #17
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    Ignore the haters...I ride my normal bike more than my ebike. Yet when i get out on my ebike i always hear the smart ass remarks

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananth View Post
    WHAT! You're telling me strava doesn't have fishing mode and a king-of-the-river board? Some one should build that and watch the $$$ roll in.
    Strava is already has an excessive amount of activity types.

  19. #19
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    My experience:

    50% will just ignore / nod / say hi
    20% will ask for a tow up to the top
    10% will deploy the very original "Nice moped / scooter / motorcycle / hovercraft"
    9% will call you a cheater
    7% will give you that "I'm deeply in love with you" look (you know the one)
    3% will tell you that they "love you" but are not "in love with you"
    Sadly, only 1% or less will ask for your hand in marriage - but when it happens, it is so magical

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Most people will not confront you out on the trail with anything more than a dirty look or sarcastic comment. But yes, it’s not just all online
    Here lies the problem. And not singled out to ebikes...
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    My experience:

    50% will just ignore / nod / say hi
    20% will ask for a tow up to the top
    10% will deploy the very original "Nice moped / scooter / motorcycle / hovercraft"
    9% will call you a cheater
    7% will give you that "I'm deeply in love with you" look (you know the one)
    3% will tell you that they "love you" but are not "in love with you"
    Sadly, only 1% or less will ask for your hand in marriage - but when it happens, it is so magical
    There is at least 15% that will be like, “Ah, the only reason you caught me was because the ebike”.

    My response: Quickly turn the bike off and pretend I caught them without the motor. That usually shuts them up very quickly if they believe it. Lol

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananth View Post
    WHAT! You're telling me strava doesn't have fishing mode and a king-of-the-river board? Some one should build that and watch the $$$ roll in.
    If people start calling regular kayaks "acoustic kayak" I'm going to flip my shiz...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by twowheelmotion View Post
    "All these GD All-Mountain E-Kayakers!!"
    Oh holly crap. I thought it was a fluke. Last year I was Kayaking down Cache Creek and having a good time. Then, this E-Kayak is coming UPSTREAM and complain about me taking the easy line he wanted.

    E-Kayakers are the worst.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    My experience:

    50% will just ignore / nod / say hi
    20% will ask for a tow up to the top
    10% will deploy the very original "Nice moped / scooter / motorcycle / hovercraft"
    9% will call you a cheater
    7% will give you that "I'm deeply in love with you" look (you know the one)
    3% will tell you that they "love you" but are not "in love with you"
    Sadly, only 1% or less will ask for your hand in marriage - but when it happens, it is so magical
    My response to this is "Sure, but I get paid in beer, upfront"
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Wow, we found the one guy in Norcal that follows all the rules.
    Not sure why not poaching trails should be ridiculed in any way.

    I'll give the benefit of the doubt that the restrictions were implemented for good reason.
    If not, then we should work to change them.

    Same for any other rule/law we enact in our society.

    There's another thread about ebikes at Demo.
    If those in charge get fed up with ebikers, they could ban all bikes.
    Same for other places like Skeggs and Water Dog that presently prohibit ebikes.

    If those restrictions are unreasonable, then work to change them.
    Flaunting them doesn't help.

    Ebike transgressors pose a risk to rest of us with trail access.
    When I get an ebike, I'll do my part to not make that worse.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Not asking about whether people will hate me if I buzz by strollers and horses at 25 mph and generally being a jerk on the trail. That's not me. I mean, by virtue of having an e-bike and riding on a trail, will I get hassled.
    I have been riding since Jan and yet to be hassled. I usually get asked about my bike as it's not the ever-present Levo/Kenevo (YT Decoy). It seems the Decoy is like a ghost. People have heard about it, but few have seen one.

    So, I take the opportunity to be friendly and talk about it.

    I also pass climbing with consideration to others. I'm not in a rush. A climbing KOM or PR on an ebike is rather unsatisfying.

    The DH PRs are the target. The motor is almost irrelevant and is off a majority of the time.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    Not sure why not poaching trails should be ridiculed in any way.

    I'll give the benefit of the doubt that the restrictions were implemented for good reason.
    If not, then we should work to change them.

    Same for any other rule/law we enact in our society.

    There's another thread about ebikes at Demo.
    If those in charge get fed up with ebikers, they could ban all bikes.
    Same for other places like Skeggs and Water Dog that presently prohibit ebikes.

    If those restrictions are unreasonable, then work to change them.
    Flaunting them doesn't help.

    Ebike transgressors pose a risk to rest of us with trail access.
    When I get an ebike, I'll do my part to not make that worse.
    Good for you on not riding illegal trails. Not sure how long you've been following trail access issues in the bay area, but you should know that most trail restrictions have little to do with sensible analysis, and pretty much everything to do with politics and back room deals.

    Now, do you follow every trail rule with the same zeal? Do you never exceed the 15mph speed limit in effect in pretty much the whole bay area?
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    Water Dog that presently prohibit ebikes.
    Any actual source for this?

  29. #29
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    Pr?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yolo_MTB View Post
    If people start calling regular kayaks "acoustic kayak" I'm going to flip my shiz...
    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Oh holly crap. I thought it was a fluke. Last year I was Kayaking down Cache Creek and having a good time. Then, this E-Kayak is coming UPSTREAM and complain about me taking the easy line he wanted.

    E-Kayakers are the worst.
    Got it. It was in my acoustic kayak and this bozo comes upstream in his E-Kayak.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananth View Post
    Any actual source for this?
    Here is what I would assume is being referred too (from the Belmont City Website):

    Motorized vehicles are not permitted off roadways and are to park in designated areas only.
    Littering, dumping, firearms, golfing, and excessive noise are not permitted.
    Bike use is restricted to roadways and trails.
    Given AB 1096:
    SEC. 7. Section 24016 of the Vehicle Code is amended to read:
    24016. (a) An electric bicycle described in subdivision (a) of Section 312.5 shall meet the following criteria:

    ...

    (b) A person operating an electric bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle
    Putting this together, and unless Waterdog has a specific ordinance outlawing Class 1 ebikes, ebikes are allowed at Waterdog.

    Further research, found here, clearly indicate no official decision has been made regarding ebikes. By virtue of that, and unless something else has changed and the info is not readily available to someone actually looking for it, once again e-bikes would be allowed.

    Yet another example where at best there is conflicting information, at worst purposeful incorrect information about where people can and can not ride ebikes being perpetuated.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Good for you on not riding illegal trails. Not sure how long you've been following trail access issues in the bay area, but you should know that most trail restrictions have little to do with sensible analysis, and pretty much everything to do with politics and back room deals.

    Now, do you follow every trail rule with the same zeal? Do you never exceed the 15mph speed limit in effect in pretty much the whole bay area?
    To me he sounds like the same person driving 65mph in the left lane and expects people to go around him because he believes they are in the wrong for speeding.

  33. #33
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    Skeggs being part of ECDM, and under a different land manager (MidPen) does have a specific statement that states ebikes are not allow:

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  34. #34
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    For some functioning members of a society, the most side-eye will come from oneself , when ebiking at Demo, MidPen parks, or other places where one knows ebikes are prohibited.

    FYI, no idea abt WaterDog.

  35. #35
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    i wont say nothing about it. maybe i ask for a tow on occasion.

    googling KENEVO now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Here is what I would assume is being referred too (from the Belmont City Website):



    Given AB 1096:


    Putting this together, and unless Waterdog has a specific ordinance outlawing Class 1 ebikes, ebikes are allowed at Waterdog.

    Further research, found here, clearly indicate no official decision has been made regarding ebikes. By virtue of that, and unless something else has changed and the info is not readily available to someone actually looking for it, once again e-bikes would be allowed.

    Yet another example where at best there is conflicting information, at worst purposeful incorrect information about where people can and can not ride ebikes being perpetuated.
    Thanks for the research! I didn't want to go as far as calling his post intentionally misleading

    Trailforks has (had?) a field for e-bikes allowed, but so many trails got flagged incorrectly that they simply stopped showing that info. Maybe you can still find it by digging, but it's completely useless.

    I live close to Waterdog and ride there a lot. Definitely no signage regarding e-bikes.

    While I do believe those trails are most fun on a light short-travel bike (except for the unmentionable stuff), I see plenty of mega-travel enduro rigs and e-bikes out and about. No issues with any of them.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boomchakabowwow View Post
    i wont say nothing about it. maybe i ask for a tow on occasion.

    googling KENEVO now.
    oh hell NO! that is expensive!!! i would buy this if i had that kinda coin laying around...it would change my commute forever. i would charge it at the office

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    the KENEVO looks amazing. i hope it works out and you get one.
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    ..and I thought the Levo SL felt like a plow at Coe. I know I don't ride trails gnarly enough for a Kenevo.

    Just don't be a dick. If enough people call you out on being a dick, maybe you are one and you didn't know it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Good for you on not riding illegal trails. Not sure how long you've been following trail access issues in the bay area, but you should know that most trail restrictions have little to do with sensible analysis, and pretty much everything to do with politics and back room deals.

    Now, do you follow every trail rule with the same zeal? Do you never exceed the 15mph speed limit in effect in pretty much the whole bay area?
    As I wrote, if those restrictions are unreasonable, then we should work to change them.
    I'm not surprised that many restrictions are not the result of sensible analysis.
    Same for speed limits for cars on many stretches of road.

    But what do you propose, that in general, violate whatever rules one doesn't agree with?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    As I wrote, if those restrictions are unreasonable, then we should work to change them.
    I'm not surprised that many restrictions are not the result of sensible analysis.
    Same for speed limits for cars on many stretches of road.

    But what do you propose, that in general, violate whatever rules one doesn't agree with?
    I don't propose anything. But are you following the 15 mph limit all the time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Here is what I would assume is being referred too (from the Belmont City Website):



    Given AB 1096:


    Putting this together, and unless Waterdog has a specific ordinance outlawing Class 1 ebikes, ebikes are allowed at Waterdog.

    Further research, found here, clearly indicate no official decision has been made regarding ebikes. By virtue of that, and unless something else has changed and the info is not readily available to someone actually looking for it, once again e-bikes would be allowed.

    Yet another example where at best there is conflicting information, at worst purposeful incorrect information about where people can and can not ride ebikes being perpetuated.
    This is very helpful. Thanks for putting it together.

    As with a lot of new technology, regulations/laws are outpaced.
    At some point, what appears to be an inconsistency/contradiction will need to be clarified.

    But whatever a state law stipulates, local laws may be different.

    Somewhat related, the county of San Mateo does not that require that masks be worn all the time in county parks. But Belmont had decreed that masks be worn at all times in city parks, which include Water Dog and Hidden Canyon.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    This is very helpful. Thanks for putting it together.

    As with a lot of new technology, regulations/laws are outpaced.
    At some point, what appears to be an inconsistency/contradiction will need to be clarified.

    But whatever a state law stipulates, local laws may be different.

    Somewhat related, the county of San Mateo does not that require that masks be worn all the time in county parks. But Belmont had decreed that masks be worn at all times in city parks, which include Water Dog and Hidden Canyon.
    Per state law, unless specifically outlawed, ebikes are allowed wherever bikes are. So, if Belmont doesn't have an exclusion, they're allowed. Pretty straight forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    Per state law, unless specifically outlawed, ebikes are allowed wherever bikes are. So, if Belmont doesn't have an exclusion, they're allowed. Pretty straight forward.
    In what roughster quoted below, Belmont city doesn't permit "motorized vehicles" off roadways in parks.

    And "bike use is restricted to roadways and trails".

    I would interpret this to mean ebikes are not allowed off roadways. But that's because I regard an ebike as a motorized vehicle.

    Or is that not straightforward because other would not classify ebikes as motorized vehicles and simply as "bikes"?

    Perhaps the city will need to make clear how they classify ebikes.

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    Thanks for the good discussion guys!

    Looks like the thread devolved a little bit back into the usual "bike vs ebike" discussion covered so much here, not my intention! But I think the original topic is clear, and I appreciate folks chiming in to mention their experiences out on the trail.

    Hopefully the remaining other topics can be moved to the normal threads for those more , uh, charged, discussions.

    Thanks again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eonflux View Post
    In what roughster quoted below, Belmont city doesn't permit "motorized vehicles" off roadways in parks.

    And "bike use is restricted to roadways and trails".

    I would interpret this to mean ebikes are not allowed off roadways. But that's because I regard an ebike as a motorized vehicle.

    Or is that not straightforward because other would not classify ebikes as motorized vehicles and simply as "bikes"?

    Perhaps the city will need to make clear how they classify ebikes.
    The state law is sneaky in that it automatically allowed ebikes (class 1 for sure, can't remember the others) wherever bikes were allowed unless they were specifically banned by park agencies (like Midpen did). Belmont did not, hence it's allowed. Been discussed here before when it was passed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    The state law is sneaky in that it automatically allowed ebikes (class 1 for sure, can't remember the others) wherever bikes were allowed unless they were specifically banned by park agencies (like Midpen did). Belmont did not, hence it's allowed. Been discussed here before when it was passed.
    You are correct, click on the Ab 1096 link. It is clear unless they are specifically prohibited by ordinance Class 1 ebikes are allowed anywhere a bicycle is. In addition, the law also makes clear class 1 are NOT a motorized vehicle. Doesn’t matter how bad some wants them to be or what they personally feel. The law is clear.
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    I was going to say you're going to get heckled more in here than on the trails. But I was wrong. Only the one person of the handful of ebike hates on the forum has spoken up. and I'm amazed with only one post.

    I remember this one time a guy in the parking lot was talking with me about e bikes and how people dislike. He went on to say "just don't be a dick about it" and people won't really hate you too much. They seemed pretty down to earth riders. They will bring out the ebikes when they want to ride the big loop in short order but otherwise ride their non e-bikes.

    I think it would take me a while to get used to it. Riding his down the road for a second when he said "here, take it for a spin" after talking about how fan they can be in the right situation.

    Anyway, enjoy your new ride and don't pretend you didn't see the sign if you visit trails that are not e-bike legal.

  48. #48
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    I poach, I ride on private property and I've even built unauthorized features before but I won't ride an e bike, too heavy to lift over fences.

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    I have zero problems with ebikes where they are allowed. At Demo specifically, I do get annoyed at ebikes because Cal Fire says they are not allowed there, and they are so good to our community. At Demo ebikes are not allowed, period. I don't get why there is so much arguing about it. Cal Fire has made their stance clear.

    If someone ticketed ebikers on one lone Saturday, they would have enough revenue to keep all the trails maintained at demo for 20 years.

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    yeah, I heard that. I won't ride an e-bike at Demo.

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    what is up with 1990 uploading menu?

    what is up with 1990 uploading menu?
    bill gate would be proud of this in 1993
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    what is up with 1990 uploading menu?

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    what is up with 1990 uploading menu???????????????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    ..and I thought the Levo SL felt like a plow at Coe. I know I don't ride trails gnarly enough for a Kenevo.

    Just don't be a dick. If enough people call you out on being a dick, maybe you are one and you didn't know it.
    It's not so much trails are not gnarly enough but more based on the fact that e-rides are turning into 40+ mile/6-7k decent epics. And often. That extra travel really helps reduce fatigue and, as my body parts are starting to fizzle, I could use the extra cushion. Since weight penalties are not in play, that Kenevo is high on the priority list at the moment.
    I'm not sure how this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzo View Post
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    More nonsense by mtb-ers with butt hurt egos! Hikers and horses don't care whether you are on an e-bike or not.

    Also, same right of way rules apply for bicycles and dirt bikes (yes I'm talking about the 450s) at places like Downieville. YES.. you need to yield to the 50hp 200lb machine if it's going uphill and you are going downhill on your 30lb MTB (which ironically costs about the same)

    We are going to lose access to places like that due to mtb-ers who won't play by the rules. See what I did there..

  55. #55
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    The only thing I say to ebike riders: "I'M JEALOUS"
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    Get an E-mountain bike, I have never heard of anyone not loving the E. Most people will say it's the most fun I have had on a bike ever or since they were 10 years old.

    I ride E and non-E, but if I could only have one bike it would be an E-MTB.

    There is a reason why nobody uses a rotary dial phone. That phone can still make and receive telephone calls but technology made them obsolete.

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    ^^ With 6 decades under my belt and a few health issues, I call the e-bike the Fountain of Youth!

    Quote Originally Posted by kattrap View Post
    ..and I thought the Levo SL felt like a plow at Coe. I know I don't ride trails gnarly enough for a Kenevo.
    That (the playfulness) was a big concern for me after my first ride on a borrowed Levo. But I still bought one. And I got more comfortable with every lap and every ride. After 10 days and 6 rides later I'm riding as well--or better--than with my Ripley LS. I'm definitely more confident on jumps/drops/steeps because of the longer travel.
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    There's definitely a learning curve with the extra 20lbs, so hard to get the full picture in a quick first ride.

    Just like there is learning curve with longer wheel bases, slacker angles or bigger wheels. People complained about all those things before they took hold. Actually some still do..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Got my sights on a Kenevo. Probably buy next January unless the market has a V-shaped recovery, then it'll be sooner.

    I love the idea of being able to set it to the low level of boost and pedal up the Rocky Ridge fire road as if I'm on a 15 lb bike, then have the full Kenevo geometry and setup when coming down the single track. (and similar trails)

    I like the Kenevo concept over Levo because I already have a tight 26" mtb for more nimble running. Kenevo on paper seems like it'll be a plow. So, nimble or plow, I have an option.

    -----

    But I'm reading here about SO MUCH HATE against e-bikers. The few I've seen on the trails, I'm sure not rude to them since I want one, but for those who have and use e-bikes, do you get hassled out there? is all the hate just from keyboard commandos, or does it spill out onto the trails?

    Not asking about whether people will hate me if I buzz by strollers and horses at 25 mph and generally being a jerk on the trail. That's not me. I mean, by virtue of having an e-bike and riding on a trail, will I get hassled.
    Demo both bikes multiple times. I have two expert level friends that bought Kenevo's and sold them for Levo's after a month of riding. Trust me, you want that bike you get to be under 48 pounds.

    Yes, you will receive all levels of comments. From a sincere "nice bike" to DH kids shuttling in a truck yelling out "cheater bike". Or the random gravel/steel hardtail xc rider refusing to let you by on a climb announcing "get that motorcycle out of here"

    Don't worry about it and kill them with kindness. I like to offer a quick demo of my bike on the spot as a peace offering.

  60. #60
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    I'll never understand e-bikes.

    And trust me, I've tried. I've demoed many, know tons of folks that own them. I just don't get it.

    Everyone I know is modding them now so they do much more power than they're supposed to have. Rode a 1250w modded KHS e-fat bike the other day. Absolutely bonkers insane power. Thing was 70lbs. 0-30mph before I left my court. If you planned it right, two pedal strokes before the curb, you could hit a cruisin-USA style turbo boost that lead to impressive...comical...amounts of air. This thing could spin 5.0 tires at 6-8psi from 20mph on hot asphalt.

    I still don't get it.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Everyone I know is modding them now so they do much more power than they're supposed to have.
    This is only the beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    I'll never understand e-bikes.

    And trust me, I've tried. I've demoed many, know tons of folks that own them. I just don't get it.

    Everyone I know is modding them now so they do much more power than they're supposed to have. Rode a 1250w modded KHS e-fat bike the other day. Absolutely bonkers insane power. Thing was 70lbs. 0-30mph before I left my court. If you planned it right, two pedal strokes before the curb, you could hit a cruisin-USA style turbo boost that lead to impressive...comical...amounts of air. This thing could spin 5.0 tires at 6-8psi from 20mph on hot asphalt.

    I still don't get it.
    That’s not a class 1 ebike....Have to compare apples to apples. That’s cool if not for you. Many of us love them. I prefer my Low power Levo SL. It only have 35Nm of torque. 90Nm + in my opinion is too much

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vin829 View Post
    That’s not a class 1 ebike....Have to compare apples to apples. That’s cool if not for you. Many of us love them. I prefer my Low power Levo SL. It only have 35Nm of torque. 90Nm + in my opinion is too much
    Of course it's not a class 1. That's what I'm getting at. I can't tell the difference looking at it. Yet it's out riding local trails with all the others.

    And this isn't one guy. Everyone I know with an e-bike has at least started researching how to mod them, except maybe Dan (mtbrdan), and a lot already have.

    I just...don't get it.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    I'll never understand e-bikes.

    And trust me, I've tried. I've demoed many, know tons of folks that own them. I just don't get it.

    Everyone I know is modding them now so they do much more power than they're supposed to have. Rode a 1250w modded KHS e-fat bike the other day. Absolutely bonkers insane power. Thing was 70lbs. 0-30mph before I left my court. If you planned it right, two pedal strokes before the curb, you could hit a cruisin-USA style turbo boost that lead to impressive...comical...amounts of air. This thing could spin 5.0 tires at 6-8psi from 20mph on hot asphalt.

    I still don't get it.
    I'm sure ebikers update the Class 1 20mph sticker on their bikes as they hotrod them.

    You know, because, honesty and stuff.

    Also, the more ebikers hotrod their bikes, the more tools they can carry with them for building new trails. In fact, some will say that's the only reason they hotrod them

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Of course it's not a class 1. That's what I'm getting at. I can't tell the difference looking at it. Yet it's out riding local trails with all the others.

    And this isn't one guy. Everyone I know with an e-bike has at least started researching how to mod them, except maybe Dan (mtbrdan), and a lot already have.

    I just...don't get it.
    Whether you agree with it or not, the reason most (if not all) people ride ebikes, modded or not, is because they are fun. And they are willing to live with any consequences that may occur from doing so. (Or they are not educated on the possible consequences).

  66. #66
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    You may not get hasseled, but you will definitely get heckled...especially if you get a santa cruz 😜

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Of course it's not a class 1. That's what I'm getting at. I can't tell the difference looking at it. Yet it's out riding local trails with all the others.

    And this isn't one guy. Everyone I know with an e-bike has at least started researching how to mod them, except maybe Dan (mtbrdan), and a lot already have.

    I just...don't get it.
    Perfect example of the broadest generalization possible. I haven't looked into mod'ing mine. I am sure the vast majority of owners aren't looking into it. In addition,

    Quote Originally Posted by AB1096
    SEC. 7. Section 24016 of the Vehicle Code is amended to read:
    24016. (a) An electric bicycle described in subdivision (a) of Section 312.5 shall meet the following criteria:
    ...
    (2) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied, or operate in a manner such that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released or activated, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.
    ...
    (d) A person shall not tamper with or modify an electric bicycle described in subdivision (a) of Section 312.5 so as to change the speed capability of the bicycle, unless he or she appropriately replaces the label indicating the classification required in subdivision (c) of Section 312.5.
    People modifying their ebikes are actually risking a significantly higher consequence if they don't follow the vehicle code.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2wls4ever View Post
    ...kill them with kindness.
    Ineffective advice. Will not result in the death of your intended target.
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_sbay View Post
    I'm sure ebikers update the Class 1 20mph sticker on their bikes as they hotrod them.

    You know, because, honesty and stuff.

    Also, the more ebikers hotrod their bikes, the more tools they can carry with them for building new trails. In fact, some will say that's the only reason they hotrod them
    Ahh **** it, little bitch not worth it.
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  70. #70
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    Check here for some good resources and places:

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/571046376754638/

    Legal places are:
    All Santa Clara County Parks
    Henry Coe
    Wilder State Park
    Fort Ord

    Good news, according to the rangers/park managers is no negative impacts since ebikes got legalized many years ago. More users in remote areas of the park.

    And some bikes are getting lighter
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails I want an ebike! Am I going to get hassled out on trails?-img_0290.jpg  

    I want an ebike! Am I going to get hassled out on trails?-img_0675.jpg  

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    Does anyone understand what the Midpen exception for mobility impairment really means? For example my wife has knee issues that make it impossible for her to ride significant uphills on a regular bike without re-injury, but she is fine with an e-bike. Would that allow her to ride an e-bike in Midpen parks? We live in LG so the places we can easily ride into from home are all Midpen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    I'll never understand e-bikes.

    And trust me, I've tried. I've demoed many, know tons of folks that own them. I just don't get it.

    Everyone I know is modding them now so they do much more power than they're supposed to have. Rode a 1250w modded KHS e-fat bike the other day. Absolutely bonkers insane power. Thing was 70lbs. 0-30mph before I left my court. If you planned it right, two pedal strokes before the curb, you could hit a cruisin-USA style turbo boost that lead to impressive...comical...amounts of air. This thing could spin 5.0 tires at 6-8psi from 20mph on hot asphalt.

    I still don't get it.
    So you rode something that's not an actual class 1 e-bike and built in a very poor manner (given KHS doesn't actually sell ebikes) and didn't like it. This is like saying I tried mountain biking on a dept. store bike and didn't like it.. so I don't understand how others can enjoy it!

    All the DIY crap is just that - crap. Too heavy and terrible power delivery for trail use. Maybe good for going to the pub.

    And most of the actual e-bikes with bosch/shimano/brose mid-drive motors are very hard to hot-rod. And no one is doing it since it'll impact the range too badly even if you manage to score some suspect parts on ebay.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by form49b View Post
    Does anyone understand what the Midpen exception for mobility impairment really means? For example my wife has knee issues that make it impossible for her to ride significant uphills on a regular bike without re-injury, but she is fine with an e-bike. Would that allow her to ride an e-bike in Midpen parks? We live in LG so the places we can easily ride into from home are all Midpen.
    Instead of being a snarky POS throwing out false insinuations (not talking about you form49b), here is some actual contribution to this thread (from MidPen wesbite):

    Quote Originally Posted by MidPen
    Use and Inquiry into Use of OPDMD

    Only individuals with a mobility disability may use OPDMDs on District lands. The District may stop individuals who are using an OPDMD because all powered devices except wheelchairs are prohibited under District ordinance.

    The District shall not ask an individual using a wheelchair or OPDMD questions about the nature and extent of the individual’s disability. If a person using an OPDMD states they are using the device due to a mobility disability the District may ask them to provide credible assurance that the mobility device is required because of the person’s disability. The District shall accept the presentation of a valid, state‐issued, disability parking placard or card, or other state‐issued proof of disability as a credible assurance that the use of the OPDMD is for the individual’s mobility disability. In lieu of a valid, state‐issued disability parking placard or card, or state‐issued proof of disability, the District shall accept as a credible assurance a verbal representation, not contradicted by observable fact, that the OPDMD is being used for a mobility disability. A “valid” disability placard or card is one that is presented by the person to whom it was issued and is otherwise in compliance with the state of issuance’s requirements for disability placards or cards.

    Variance Procedure

    Persons desiring to use an OPDMD which does not meet the standards for types of devices allowed or for use in a location where OPDMDs are prohibited, may request a change of use by submitting the request in writing to the District’s Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator
    addressed as follows:

    Midpeninsula Regional Open Space District
    Attention: Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator
    330 Distel Circle
    Los Altos, CA 94022

    by email to [email protected], or by calling (650) 691-1200. The requested variance shall be evaluated by District staff and a decision shall be communicated to the person(s) requesting the variance within ten business days.

    If there is a physical barrier that prevents the use of an OPDMD a visitor may use the same process to request an accommodation to allow their use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananth View Post
    So you rode something that's not an actual class 1 e-bike and built in a very poor manner (given KHS doesn't actually sell ebikes) and didn't like it. This is like saying I tried mountain biking on a dept. store bike and didn't like it.. so I don't understand how others can enjoy it!

    All the DIY crap is just that - crap. Too heavy and terrible power delivery for trail use. Maybe good for going to the pub.

    And most of the actual e-bikes with bosch/shimano/brose mid-drive motors are very hard to hot-rod. And no one is doing it since it'll impact the range too badly even if you manage to score some suspect parts on ebay.
    You must've missed the part where I said I've ridden many, many e-bikes. I just gave the most egregious example.

    edit: KHS website shows they have numerous e bikes, but maybe I got the brand wrong.

    I still just don't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RBoardman View Post
    Whether you agree with it or not, the reason most (if not all) people ride ebikes, modded or not, is because they are fun. And they are willing to live with any consequences that may occur from doing so. (Or they are not educated on the possible consequences).
    Lots of Deep Truth to the above, well beyond just bikes.
    Smthg fun for you, or smthg making smthg less fun for you? The origin of (most) human thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Ahh **** it, little bitch not worth it.
    I thought you liked Class 1 ebikes?
    Sure, they're not that powerful, but I wouldn't call them not worth it.

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    Unless you have a disability (and who doesn't) here's all you need to understand:

    I want an ebike! Am I going to get hassled out on trails?-image2.jpg

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_sbay View Post
    Lots of Deep Truth to the above, well beyond just bikes.
    Smthg fun for you, or smthg making smthg less fun for you? The origin of (most) human thinking.


    I thought you liked Class 1 ebikes?
    Sure, they're not that powerful, but I wouldn't call them not worth it.
    I wrote up varying response to your false insinuations, but then knowing that, and this post, are simply meant to rile me up, I decided to not sweat it. Karma has a way of working these things out
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Karma has a way of working these things out
    As you are experiencing

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_sbay View Post
    As you are experiencing
    I love knowing that the NorCal scene is not all that big.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    I love knowing that the NorCal scene is not all that big.
    Does that mean you'll invite me to your private trails soon?
    I'll check my DMs!
    Thanks in advance.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin_sbay View Post
    Does that mean you'll invite me to your private trails soon?
    I'll check my DMs!
    Thanks in advance.
    Anytime!
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    Quote Originally Posted by ananth View Post
    So you rode something that's not an actual class 1 e-bike and built in a very poor manner (given KHS doesn't actually sell ebikes) and didn't like it. This is like saying I tried mountain biking on a dept. store bike and didn't like it.. so I don't understand how others can enjoy it!

    All the DIY crap is just that - crap. Too heavy and terrible power delivery for trail use. Maybe good for going to the pub.

    And most of the actual e-bikes with bosch/shimano/brose mid-drive motors are very hard to hot-rod. And no one is doing it since it'll impact the range too badly even if you manage to score some suspect parts on ebay.
    Yeah, more power equals less range

    Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

  83. #83
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    My disability is I'm sick and tired of all you ebike haters whining so much..
    HA-HA!
    So many myopic people here.
    Your life would be so much better if you just acquiesced.
    BRRRRRAAAAAPPPP!!!!

  84. #84
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    just follow the rules

    just follow the rules
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    Are the trail signs posted in this thread legit signs?
    Don't know if they are some crafty photo-shopping.

  86. #86
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    To the OP; ride where e-bikes are legit and there shouldn't be any hassle. You'll get some stink eye from hikers and horse folks but you'd be getting that "e" bike or not.

    My main experience riding e-bikes is from Henry Coe; lots of e-bikes on the trails and my guess is that 2/3rds are "old timers" who stepped up their game to deal with Coe's nasty terrain. They understand.

    My story is a bit like that of "roughster"; I use mine primarily for transporting tools and materials for park maintenance.

    I find that e-bikes are easier to swallow if looked at as a different form of recreation, the industry has tried too hard to blend them in with analog. Shall we discuss transgender sports anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    In addition, the law also makes clear class 1 are NOT a motorized vehicle. Doesn’t matter how bad some wants them to be or what they personally feel. The law is clear.
    It actually says that ebikes aren't "motor vehicles", which is very different in DOT legalese than "motorized vehicles". This can affect how local jurisdictions implement the law.

    "(b) A person operating an electric bicycle is not subject to the provisions of this code relating to financial responsibility, driver’s licenses, registration, and license plate requirements, and an electric bicycle is not a motor vehicle."

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    I’m mostly upset that the Kenevo isn’t made by Evil.
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  89. #89
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    Harryman: Understood but do me a favor, provide a link to CA law that defines “motorized vehicle”. As far as I can tell after a bit of searching is it doesn’t exist. However, several different angles of querying do hit this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post

    My story is a bit like that of "roughster"; I use mine primarily for transporting tools and materials for park maintenance.

    I find that e-bikes are easier to swallow if looked at as a different form of recreation, the industry has tried too hard to blend them in with analog.
    From an IMBA study cited by "roughster":

    "Defining eMTBs as new category of recreation access will minimize impacts on access for mountain bikes and protect against an increase of motorized use on non-motorized trails."

    Get the battery powered motor bike - they are a blast

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    Earn your turns. Old, fat, lazy, find a new sport like golf. Mountain biking should be hard and difficult. That's the point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Harryman: Understood but do me a favor, provide a link to CA law that defines “motorized vehicle”. As far as I can tell after a bit of searching is it doesn’t exist. However, several different angles of querying do hit this:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle
    I’m not aware of any DOT that defines “motorized vehicle”, most don’t even define what a “trail” is. The only agency i know of that does is the USFS. My local land managers see it as anything hauling people around that has a motor. Some bike paths get marked “no motor vehicles” some, “no motorized vehicles”. It’s worth knowing the difference.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    I’m not aware of any DOT that defines “motorized vehicle”, most don’t even define what a “trail” is. The only agency i know of that does is the USFS. My local land managers see it as anything hauling people around that has a motor. Some bike paths get marked “no motor vehicles” some, “no motorized vehicles”. It’s worth knowing the difference.
    Can you link me to the USFS definition of Motorized Vehicle. Same thing, searching shows they use motor vehicle and motorized vehicle interchangeably which would mean motorized vehicle doesn’t apply to class 1 ebikes. I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just can’t seem to find any legal definition, DOT or USFS of motorized vehicle other than the interchangeable use.
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    https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/e-bikes

    Didn’t take too long to find this. Specifically states that class 1,2,3 e mtbs are only allowed on USFS maintenance road levels 2,3,4 only. Maintenance level 1 roads aka most hiking and biking trails, prohibit OHV use.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffman1976 View Post
    https://www.fs.usda.gov/visit/e-bikes

    Didn’t take too long to find this. Specifically states that class 1,2,3 e mtbs are only allowed on USFS maintenance road levels 2,3,4 only. Maintenance level 1 roads aka most hiking and biking trails, prohibit OHV use.
    The question we are discussing isn’t USFS ebike policy. It’s the legal definition of a motorized vehicle.
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    Ya, it seems most agencies haven’t defined them and don’t have a specific policy against them. USFS seems to be the only one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffman1976 View Post
    Ya, it seems most agencies haven’t defined them and don’t have a specific policy against them. USFS seems to be the only one.
    Agreed and this is a consistent interpretation of current laws and guidance policies. If ebikes are not specifically excluded they can not be generic excluded via existing motor vehicle or motorized vehicle language.
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  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Agreed and this is a consistent interpretation of current laws and guidance policies. If ebikes are not specifically excluded they can not be generic excluded via existing motor vehicle or motorized vehicle language.
    Sure they can. Any agency and land manager can exclude whatever they want, they just need to come up with a reason why. Like the USFS, they can define ebikes as a motorized vehicle and limit them to motorized trails. My local parks dept also defines them as motorized, but wrote an exclusion into their code allowing them on bike paths. They are still not allowed on singetrack, which is non motorized.

    There isn't any required consistency between agencies or some top down hierarchy like Fed supercedes State, State over Local etc. I doubt you'll find many legal definitions for "motorized", it's treated a generic description. Agencies are free to define something as motorized as they wish.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    Sure they can. Any agency and land manager can exclude whatever they want, they just need to come up with a reason why. Like the USFS, they can define ebikes as a motorized vehicle and limit them to motorized trails. My local parks dept also defines them as motorized, but wrote an exclusion into their code allowing them on bike paths. They are still not allowed on singetrack, which is non motorized.

    There isn't any required consistency between agencies or some top down hierarchy like Fed supercedes State, State over Local etc. I doubt you'll find many legal definitions for "motorized", it's treated a generic description. Agencies are free to define something as motorized as they wish.
    In CA, my limited understanding is that the law defines e-bikes class 1 as regular bikes. As a result, local agencies must specifically exclude e-bikes or ebikes have access to any bike legal trail.
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  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    In CA, my limited understanding is that the law defines e-bikes class 1 as regular bikes. As a result, local agencies must specifically exclude e-bikes or ebikes have access to any bike legal trail.
    Don't forget CA Class 2, they're on equal footing with CA Class 1. They're legal unless excluded. (Which is often the case for Class 2 in my experience) CA Class 3 are excluded automatically unless specifically allowed.
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  101. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorg View Post
    In CA, my limited understanding is that the law defines e-bikes class 1 as regular bikes. As a result, local agencies must specifically exclude e-bikes or ebikes have access to any bike legal trail.
    In CA, you are right. And agencies can still exclude anything they want.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryman View Post
    In CA, you are right. And agencies can still exclude anything they want.
    Nobody's disputing that fact. Indeed, that's what we do best, at least in the bay area.
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  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    The question we are discussing isn’t USFS ebike policy. It’s the legal definition of a motorized vehicle.
    There isn’t one, at least not the way you seem to imply here. Statues and rules include internal definitions, but those don’t apply outside. That’s why a definition in a motor vehicle code is irrelevant to public land management.

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by roughster View Post
    Can you link me to the USFS definition of Motorized Vehicle. Same thing, searching shows they use motor vehicle and motorized vehicle interchangeably which would mean motorized vehicle doesn’t apply to class 1 ebikes. I’m not trying to be argumentative here, just can’t seem to find any legal definition, DOT or USFS of motorized vehicle other than the interchangeable use.
    It appears the the USFS isn't as far along as the BLM (NOT Black Lives Matter!) is in dealing with e-bikes; one might hope they apply US Code in a similar way but I won't be holding my breath.

    At the root of the BLM policies (proposed but not necessarily implemented) is 15 U.S. Code § 2085 where low-speed electric bicycles are established as "consumer products" and as such not as "motor vehicles".

    THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR ORDER NO. 3376 uses both of the terms "motor vehicle" and "motorized vehicle" depending upon which agency the order is applied at; the FWS, the NPS, the BLM or the BOR.

    These are all under the Dept. of the Interior; the USFS is under the Dept. of Agriculture.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    It appears the the USFS isn't as far along as the BLM (NOT Black Lives Matter!) is in dealing with e-bikes; one might hope they apply US Code in a similar way but I won't be holding my breath.

    At the root of the BLM policies (proposed but not necessarily implemented) is 15 U.S. Code § 2085 where low-speed electric bicycles are established as "consumer products" and as such not as "motor vehicles".

    THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR ORDER NO. 3376 uses both of the terms "motor vehicle" and "motorized vehicle" depending upon which agency the order is applied at; the FWS, the NPS, the BLM or the BOR.

    These are all under the Dept. of the Interior; the USFS is under the Dept. of Agriculture.
    Completely agree, just to be clear. That's what I am going for here. I am not saying an Agency can't exclude e-bikes from access, it just the interchangeable use of 'motor vehicle' and 'motorized vehicle' for land management and the cross referencing to DOT language as highlighted above via AB 1096 create confusion over what is and is not allowed and where.

    In CA at least, you can't "generically" exclude ebikes via use of motor vehicle language. I think everyone agrees to this as AB 1096 is pretty ironclad there. As it relates to Motorized vehicle, it is open to interpretation by the land manager, but also in the current context of the laws and guidance. Unless specifically referenced as ebike, anyone can easily push back on any generic application of "no motorized vehicles" and would win any legal case because at least as it is available to the actual ebiker, there is nothing to point to that states ebikes = motorized vehicle. Right or wrong depending on your (generic "you") perspective.
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    Ebike hater is like snowboard hater back in the day

    https://youtu.be/XPZDEWBzneY

  107. #107
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    If I tested positive for Covid, could I ride my ebike to the BLM protest?
    Do not take anything I post seriously. I don't.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave54 View Post
    If I tested positive for Covid, could I ride my ebike to the BLM protest?
    I don't think the Bureau of Land Management would appreciate that
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  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Of course it's not a class 1. That's what I'm getting at. I can't tell the difference looking at it. Yet it's out riding local trails with all the others.

    And this isn't one guy. Everyone I know with an e-bike has at least started researching how to mod them, except maybe Dan (mtbrdan), and a lot already have.

    I just...don't get it.
    I don't have one. Just borrowed a bunch from the editor.
    I'm the problem....

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    Of course it's not a class 1. That's what I'm getting at. I can't tell the difference looking at it. Yet it's out riding local trails with all the others.

    And this isn't one guy. Everyone I know with an e-bike has at least started researching how to mod them, except maybe Dan (mtbrdan), and a lot already have.

    I just...don't get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtbrdan View Post
    I don't have one. Just borrowed a bunch from the editor.
    Did the editor mod them??????? His Levo????

    In any event, I will go on record as saying I have not or plan to mod my YT Decoy.

    Why??????? Warranty

    Since it's an electro-mechanical device, I'm sure Shimano has methods for detecting mods.

    Also, I tune down my motor. The mid and high are set to their lowest settings. I'm interested in riding longer or further instead of faster. I guess I'm just a freak and failed the Tim Allen school of "more power"
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    ^^ I'm with ya! Everybody I know wants to go longer, not faster. #twss

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrie View Post
    Ebike hater is like snowboard hater back in the day

    https://youtu.be/XPZDEWBzneY
    That was awesome! "Buncha drunk, lippy, smart alecks!"

    I knew all of this felt familiar!
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    I am not doing trails anymore however I have had my share of fun trail rides. One perspective might be that some riders are much stronger and more capable and that the E bike could be a nice equalizer, helping to keep a group riding together rather than one Or two stragglers getting left behind. Not going to happen if they have a little boost.

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    Wait, what happened with the Kenevo??

    I was sure after seeing a few youtube reviews of Levo vs Kenevo that people would be flocking to the Levo as the preferred bike. All I read from online shops is that they are selling loads of Levos. That means Kenevo has to be a bike I can get a deal on?

    No! local shops here have piles of Levos and there is a shortage of Kenevos, literally zero stock here.

    What's up with that?

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Do kayaks have motors?
    mine does. 45lb troller. fly fishing lakes for bass pike and musky...

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    Wait, what happened with the Kenevo?? ?
    Pretty sure it's a Covid supply-chain issue.
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    You’d think that would have hit the Levo too...

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiterabbitt View Post
    You’d think that would have hit the Levo too...
    I think it's a gen1 vs gen2 issue. The Levo was fully updated for 2019 - this not only meant updated geo, but also whole new motor, bigger battery, fancier app etc. etc. But the Kenevo remained the same (2016 design) and a bit long in the tooth. So all the comparos for 2019 said to just get the new Levo over the gen1 Kenevo.

    The Kenevo finally got the gen2 updates for the 2020 model year. So hot new model + low inventory + COVID

  118. #118
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    Levos are all on backorder locally as well. My buddy had to wait a month for his. Might be a regional thing.
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  119. #119
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    Honest question for all you e-bros: Why are the e-names so goddamn stupid? Levo, Kenevo, Sduro, Shuttle... all stupid. I want a bike name that references drugs, heavy metal, or boning sluts, and I want the color to be all black, or at worst black on black.

  120. #120
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    I'd buy an Iron Maiden. That would be pretty sick, make it a steel hardtail and sell it without an e-motor. Now you have my attention

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Honest question for all you e-bros: Why are the e-names so goddamn stupid? Levo, Kenevo, Sduro, Shuttle... all stupid. I want a bike name that references drugs, heavy metal, or boning sluts, and I want the color to be all black, or at worst black on black.
    Kona eStinky?
    The glass is twice as large as it needs to be

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Honest question for all you e-bros: Why are the e-names so goddamn stupid? Levo, Kenevo, Sduro, Shuttle... all stupid. I want a bike name that references drugs, heavy metal, or boning sluts, and I want the color to be all black, or at worst black on black.
    I can think of at LEAST three funny answers to this question, all of which would get me banned immediately.

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    ^^ I double-dog dare you!

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Honest question for all you e-bros: Why are the e-names so goddamn stupid? Levo, Kenevo, Sduro, Shuttle... all stupid.
    Oh, c'mon.

    It doesn't get more badass than Levo Kenevo.

    Btw, I've seen you riding your Bieber Believer bike in the shadows. We're not judging.
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  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Wreck View Post
    I'd buy an Iron Maiden. That would be pretty sick, make it a steel hardtail and sell it without an e-motor. Now you have my attention
    ACDC, back in black.
    Of course.

  125. #125
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    Exactly my point... Giant XTC, Jamis (dirty) Dragonslayer, Voodoo Rada, Surly Krampus.

  126. #126
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    You would probably get snarky comments 3 years ago. Today there are enough e-bikes that people got used to them on the trails.

    I had someone say something like "cheating" a year ago, turned it into a joke, and we had a funny trail side chat afterwards. So it's also about how you approach it, if your knee jerk reaction is to get angry first or to be friendly.

    Bottom line, not an issue if you ride legally (and probably also illegally).

    There are places you will not be able to ride an e-bike, so have a pedal mountain bike as well.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohmygato View Post
    Honest question for all you e-bros: Why are the e-names so goddamn stupid? Levo, Kenevo, Sduro, Shuttle... all stupid. I want a bike name that references drugs, heavy metal, or boning sluts, and I want the color to be all black, or at worst black on black.
    This is LITERALLY a very honest, and valid, question and we are all glad somebody is finally shining a light on this - it is a little-known fact that the ebike riding community actually come up with the stupid names for many of the products out there - like the Ford Pinto - named by ebike riders - they also did Quiznos Subs, Bengay, and also named Elon Musk's son

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyno View Post
    This is LITERALLY a very honest, and valid, question and we are all glad somebody is finally shining a light on this - it is a little-known fact that the ebike riding community actually come up with the stupid names for many of the products out there - like the Ford Pinto - named by ebike riders - they also did Quiznos Subs, Bengay, and also named Elon Musk's son
    The Chevy Nova didn't sell well in Mexico.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moe Ped View Post
    The Chevy Nova didn't sell well in Mexico.
    It eVolved and became the Chevy Niva.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Niva

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