• 08-27-2010
    zorg
    Great article on Wilderness written by one of ours
    in the NY Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opinion/27stroll.html

    Definitely worth a read.
  • 08-27-2010
    EBrider
    Great article, thanks for posting. Reminds me of last year when a hiker died from heat stroke on Mt Diablo because he forgot a cell phone and had no way to get help on a fairly isolated trail. Mountain bikes go down the trail all the time during the week, but because its off limits to bikes, cyclist usually avoid it on the weekends and it gets little use. Hard to tell what would have happened, but allowing reasonable trail use would certainly improve safety for everyone.
  • 08-27-2010
    Berkeley Mike
    Take a moment to read this
    Thoughtful, well written.
  • 08-27-2010
    Broccoli
    Well written.
  • 08-27-2010
    HarryCallahan
    Ted used to (maybe still does) post on the ROMP list.
  • 08-28-2010
    BigLarry
    If you need a sign to get out of a wilderness, you shouldn't be there.

    Maps, compass, GPS, sun dials, etc. can all get you out. As for safetly, maybe before the trip, leave a map of your intended route with someone along with intended return time. Better, have a PLB.

    Also, signs are a CA thing. I used to bike in NJ all the time and they never had trail signs like in CA. In fact, the trails didn't even have names as they happened to be where the deer were walking that year. Yea, I got lost occasionally (days before GPS), but I'd always get out of the smaller wilderness areas with a fun new exploaration.

    I do think allowing biking in Wilderness makes sense. It's mechanized, but human powered.
  • 08-28-2010
    iheartbicycles
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HarryCallahan
    Ted used to (maybe still does) post on the ROMP list.

    He gives berkeley mike a run for his money on this site as well.
  • 08-28-2010
    Berkeley Mike
    A kudo to be sure
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by iheartbicycles
    He gives berkeley mike a run for his money on this site as well.

    but he is far more concise. He chooses simpler ideas though.:D
  • 08-28-2010
    iheartbicycles
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike
    He chooses simpler ideas though.:D

    You have the market cornered on making the simple appear complex.
  • 08-28-2010
    Entrenador
    You two remind me of a show from my childhood...
  • 08-29-2010
    Berkeley Mike
    I know!
    He leaves the pits in the orange juice and just doesn't see the problem.:D
  • 08-29-2010
    Berkeley Mike
    I know!
    He leaves the pits in the orange juice and just doesn't see the problem.:D
  • 08-29-2010
    Hel Mot
    blurring threads together. my mistake
  • 08-29-2010
    redhawk
    [QUOTE. I believe more technical trails (i.e. jumps and drops) should be permitted to be built in bike accessed areas.[/QUOTE]

    This is tangential, but it makes me think of an argument that could be used against bikes in wilderness. One of the wilderness values is that there be no permanent evidence of human use: fire rings, trail signage, etc. Well, trails themselves are a little contradictory since human trails don't look nothin' like game trails, even after light human use tracking game. Even horses are kinda' contradictory since there were humans on this continent living in "wilderness" long before there were horses.

    But I can maybe see one potentially valid concern and that is that as a group we do have a tendency to "improve" trails wherever we go. Personally, I'm not thinking that nice bermage, etc. is consistent with wilderness values. But that is not to say that bike use in and of itself is inconsistent with wilderness values! It's really up to the biker. (And those pesky campers are still building fire rings!)
  • 08-29-2010
    Broccoli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redhawk
    This is tangential, but it makes me think of an argument that could be used against bikes in wilderness. One of the wilderness values is that there be no permanent evidence of human use: fire rings, trail signage, etc. Well, trails themselves are a little contradictory since human trails don't look nothin' like game trails, even after light human use tracking game. Even horses are kinda' contradictory since there were humans on this continent living in "wilderness" long before there were horses.

    Not sure it would be a problem in remote areas. The shuttling Mountain Dew crowd is naturally lazy. They need skill parks near civilization.

    And there are plenty of natural features out there to do a drop, or two.. No need to build artificial ones.

    And, yes, one criteria for what is a good recreational activity for wilderness is that it does not leave a lasting trace. Trail cycling on singletrack fits. Horse riding - to a much lesser degree. It got to be human powered. Or may be wind powered.
  • 08-30-2010
    Entrenador
    Nice.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Curmy
    The shuttling Mountain Dew crowd is naturally lazy. They need skill parks near civilization.

    Is there a "Best of 2010" contest for quotes on this site? :D